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[00:09:30] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: can you make a new wheezy live+install hybrid image with the 2.7~pre package & apt source?
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[01:50:09] <jfigie_> Just out of curiosity. What would be required to get linuxcnc to send position data over Ethernet using Ethernet/IP?
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[01:51:34] <Tom_itx> if i'm not mistaken that's being worked on
[01:51:43] <Tom_itx> with an ethernet mesa board
[01:53:13] <jfigie_> I know that basically that UDP messages would be sent at the 1mSec rate from linuxcnc and also position updated and other info would be received at the same rate
[01:53:50] <jfigie_> from the drives
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[01:56:20] <micges> jfigie_: what do you trying to do?
[01:57:23] <jfigie_> OK I want to understand how difficult it would be to get linuxcnc to talk to things like Rockwell Automation Drives that use CIP motion
[01:57:36] <jfigie_> CIP motion is over ethernet
[01:57:59] <micges> jfigie_: link?
[01:58:22] <jfigie_> yes
[01:59:23] <micges> jfigie_: sorry :) , could you paste link for example drive or documantation?
[01:59:42] <jfigie_> I know that first IEEE-1588 PTP would need to be implemented.
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[02:00:55] <jfigie_> Well that is the difficult part, pasting the drive info. Ethernet/IP an CIP are "open" standards but to get them you must purchase through ODVA and the cost is high $1000
[02:01:23] <mozmck> heh, that's not exactly "open" :)
[02:01:25] <jfigie_> but I have access to the information.
[02:01:39] <jfigie_> I agree
[02:02:56] <jfigie_> But I know that in each control cycle the motion controller sends UDP messages to each of the drives and then each drive replies with a UDP message in the same cycle
[02:02:58] <micges> jfigie_: you can base on hm2_eth driver, it's just transition layer in linuxcnc, you can add any protocol on top of this
[02:03:38] <micges> and you can run it up to 4kHz on fast pc with a lot of cache
[02:03:49] <micges> transmition*
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[02:04:55] <jfigie_> Dosen't linuxcnc typically use 1 msec for the servo update rate?
[02:05:06] <micges> yes
[02:05:15] <jfigie_> so then 1 KHz is all that is needed
[02:05:24] <micges> hm2_eth driver supports only one eth board atm
[02:05:52] <jfigie_> So this is a Mesa board?
[02:06:13] <micges> I don't know yet how it will behave with multi boards
[02:06:59] <jfigie_> Each drive has an ethernet swicth so it is easy to hook them in a linear network
[02:07:18] <jfigie_> 2 RJ-45 ports on each drive
[02:08:34] <micges> that's better but still
[02:10:09] <micges> we use normal ethernet sockets in realtime hardened kernel, for such setup I think rt-net smust be used but it's quite hard to use it
[02:10:41] <micges> rt-net has realtime tcp/ip stack
[02:11:51] <jfigie_> yes that is the part I was wondering about. To make it realtime
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[02:14:21] <jfigie_> So I think someone has or is working on ehterCAT. I think that would be similar in some ways for linuxcnc.
[02:14:42] <jfigie_> *etherCAT
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[02:22:44] <jfigie_> OK I did a search and found a reply from Jepler - looks like Mesa's 7i80 cards communicate using hm2_eth driver like you say.
[02:23:40] <jfigie_> The next hurdle would be how to get the IEEE-1588 PTP to work.
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[07:15:34] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7 dac3a54 06linuxcnc 10docs/src/getting-started/Updating_LinuxCNC.txt docs: remove old 2.4->2.5 and 2.5->2.6 upgrade instructions * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=dac3a54
[07:15:34] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7 8ce76bc 06linuxcnc 10docs/src/getting-started/Updating_LinuxCNC.txt 03docs/src/getting-started/images/upgrading-to-2.7.png docs: add 2.6->2.7 upgrade instructions * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=8ce76bc
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[07:44:04] <seb_kuzminsky> god i hate writing documentation
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[08:16:48] <memfrob> are the foreign docs translated by someone or by google translate / similar?
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[11:32:14] <jthornton> memfrob, the french and some of the spanish are translated by a person
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[15:55:59] <mozmck> wow, looks like the build server's net connection is flaky
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[15:57:09] <mozmck> I noticed this post:
http://blog.machinekit.io/2014/11/jog-while-paused.html I forget what was not liked about Michael's solution?
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[18:11:50] <seb_kuzm1nsky> oops
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[18:23:24] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/v2_hallib 239f069 06linuxcnc 10(37 files in 10 dirs) hallib: support for system-wide halfiles * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=239f069
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[18:56:29] <memfrob> The very first 3.16 ipipe patch is now available on my github page if anyone wants to try it out
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[20:02:14] <seb_kuzminsky> sorry everyone for the join/leave noise... i had network trouble, it's been resolved, everything should be back to normal now
[20:03:11] <skunkworks> awesome - again - thanks for all your hard work
[20:03:27] <seb_kuzminsky> memfrob, JT-Shop, jthornton: i'm hoping to tackle the mess that is our documentation translation in the 2.8 timeframe, i've started doodling a fix in the branch called seb/master/po4a, if you want to take a look
[20:03:38] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: :-)
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[20:09:06] <memfrob> skunkworks: me or seb_kuzminsky?
[20:09:14] <skunkworks> Both!
[20:09:21] <memfrob> haha thank you!
[20:09:46] <memfrob> it is nice to finally be ahead of the xenomai team
[20:09:54] <skunkworks> well dad managed to get another cnc with a working control.. Damn it!
[20:10:23] <skunkworks> memfrob, I really want to test - but time seems to be sort at the moment..
[20:12:00] <seb_kuzminsky> memfrob: that's really cool
[20:12:03] <mozmck> hey seb_kuzminsky, we noticed the network trouble :) thought maybe you were getting buried in snow or something.
[20:12:09] <seb_kuzminsky> ugh
[20:12:10] <seb_kuzminsky> sorry
[20:12:14] <seb_kuzminsky> should be over now
[20:12:26] <mozmck> had problems myself yesterday.
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[20:17:30] <mozmck> memfrob: is xenomai going to even keep updating IPIPE? with xenomai 3 they are just using preempt-rt
[20:18:17] <mozmck> which doesn't make any sense to me. I would think people would not need xenomai at all if they are using preempt-rt
[20:20:16] <seb_kuzminsky> the future of preempt-rt is looking uncertain too :-(
[20:20:18] <seb_kuzminsky> https://lwn.net/Articles/604695/
[20:20:51] <mozmck> Yeah, I saw that.
[20:21:28] <mozmck> Maybe that will inspire people to keep updating IPIPE
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[20:51:49] <kwallace> skunkworks, are you going to be able to keep your new machines busy? Baby pictures would be nice too.
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[21:02:36] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/v2_hallib 5636ed0 06linuxcnc 10(37 files in 10 dirs) hallib: support for system-wide halfiles * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=5636ed0
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[21:07:31] <mozmck> I noticed this post:
http://blog.machinekit.io/2014/11/jog-while-paused.html I forget what was not liked about Michael's solution? What is different with dgarr's moveoff?
[21:08:57] <Tom_itx> dgarr has several examples
[21:09:54] <mozmck> I've seen the videos, and it looks interesting, but I'm just curious what the basic difference is. Someone mentioned that the solution in machinekit was deficient, but I can't remember how.
[21:10:22] <Tom_itx> i haven't seen it work
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[21:12:30] <Tom_itx> the video link you posted seems to do what would be expected
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[21:13:12] <jepler> mozmck: I don't know anything about the implementation that was ultimately made in machinekit, because I don't follow that project from day to day.
[21:13:26] <jepler> mozmck: of course, they also aren't offering patches for inclusion in linuxcnc
[21:13:37] <jepler> mozmck: so it's silly to ask why we didn't take a hypothetical patch which they did not offer
[21:14:00] <Tom_itx> a little friction there?
[21:14:01] <jepler> there was some work done in 2013 before the split. this work can be found in our branch keyboard-jog-while-pause-joints-axes4
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[21:14:31] <mozmck> hmm, I wasn't asking that, I was just curious to know the difference, because I thought someone had mentioned the machinekit solution having some problems.
[21:14:51] <jepler> compared to that work, dgarr's work is preferable because it doesn't affect any user who doesn't enable it. the keyboard-jog-while-pause-joints-axes4 branch changes the realtime motion controller which every user users
[21:14:54] <cradek> that video is a year old. contrary to my memory, it shows jogging with the regular AXIS controls. I don't know how that was accomplished. I couldn't find in their git the sim config the blog post talks about.
[21:14:55] <jepler> every user uses
[21:15:52] <jepler> one antipattern we have in the LinuxCNC task and motion controllers is: too many queues
[21:16:05] <mozmck> according to that blog post I linked, the code was actually done for linuxcnc, I assume in the branch you mention.
[21:16:14] <jepler> we have a queue for commands from user interfaces. a queue for mdi commands. a queue of motion commands waiting to be sent to realtime. a queue of motion commands in realtime.
[21:16:29] <jepler> a lot of the tough bugs we solve are due to these queues
[21:16:30] <Tom_itx> i haven't had a chance to try it yet but i think i will prefer dgarr's solution
[21:16:44] <mozmck> the video shows ja3 in the title actually
[21:16:51] <Tom_itx> i saw his demos he posted
[21:16:54] <jepler> so I would hate to take a patch that adds yet another kind of different queue, which is the first thing that stands out for me in this branch
[21:16:58] <jepler> +#define DEFAULT_ALT_TC_QUEUE_SIZE 100 // size of secondary motion queue
[21:17:23] <cradek> the recent patch I've seen would NOT have worked like the video (jogging with the usual jog controls)
[21:17:33] <cradek> I don't know how the video shows that
[21:17:40] <mozmck> ok, so maybe that's what I'm remembering.
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[21:18:25] <seb_kuzminsky> i've played with dgarr's stuff, it does the thing people say they want: let you move the machine while a running program is paused
[21:18:36] <seb_kuzminsky> it'll be in 2.7.0~pre3, i'm really excited for that
[21:19:03] <Tom_itx> will it allow a tool offset to be set and then resume?
[21:19:09] <Tom_itx> that would be awesome...
[21:19:11] <seb_kuzminsky> nope
[21:19:29] <Tom_itx> as i see it, that's one of the main reasons for a pause in mid cut
[21:19:38] <cradek> me too, Tom_itx
[21:19:40] <seb_kuzminsky> i agree
[21:19:49] <Tom_itx> i know it's easy to talk about...
[21:20:10] <cradek> that will surely be part of the end goal, which neither of these stopgaps can handle
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[21:21:52] <Tom_itx> i have never tried run from line either
[21:21:53] <skunkworks> tool lenght could be accomplished with it I think...
[21:22:02] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: not as currently written
[21:22:21] <seb_kuzminsky> you have to clear all moveoff offsets (ie, jog back to where you started) before you un-pause
[21:22:24] <Tom_itx> diameter offset would be a big plus since the new tool isn't gonna measure the same
[21:22:48] <Tom_itx> or rather the ability to re'read the tool table parameters
[21:22:56] <skunkworks> seb_kuzminsky: ah.. I thought you could start it with an offset in place - it would just scold you.
[21:22:58] <cradek> can't make an omelet without opening all these cans of worms
[21:23:26] <Tom_itx> do you make custom omlets?
[21:23:27] <skunkworks> ewww
[21:23:52] <jepler> imagine an infinite barrel of monkeys, each opening cans of worms
[21:23:58] <cradek> haha
[21:24:02] <cradek> it'd look like irc
[21:24:03] <mozmck> thanks for the answers, not really important but I was curious. I'm happy for what is there.
[21:24:15] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: hmm... now you've made me doubt myself
[21:24:16] <Tom_itx> i think most of us are
[21:25:00] <skunkworks> the original video that he posted I think allowed it - it may be how you have it setup..
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[21:28:45] <mozmck> On another subject: does S code cause a pause in motion when it executes, and can I remap the S code and it not pause motion when it executes?
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[21:32:05] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: i dont think S is a queue-buster, but it might make spindle-at-speed go false which would pause before the next feed move to let the spindle adjust
[21:32:55] <Tom_itx> what if you're doing sync'd spindle motion?
[21:32:59] <mozmck> hmm, is that true if I remap it as well? I need a code to send values from Gcode to a custom component.
[21:33:09] <Tom_itx> i suppose the S override is enabled in that case...
[21:33:37] <jepler> motion.spindle-at-speed IN BIT
[21:33:37] <jepler> Motion will pause until this pin is TRUE, under the following
[21:33:40] <jepler> conditions: before the first feed move after each spindle start
[21:33:43] <jepler> or speed change; before the start of every chain of spindle-syn‐
[21:33:46] <jepler> chronized moves; and if in CSS mode, at every rapid->feed tran‐
[21:33:49] <jepler> sition.
[21:33:56] <mozmck> Not using it for spindle control at all in this case, and I could use a different code if I have to. S is what we already use though.
[21:35:06] <jepler> I don't know enough about remap to be able to say
[21:35:37] <mozmck> ok, thanks. I will make a setup to do some testing.
[21:35:42] <mozmck> bbl
[21:37:19] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: if you dont care about spindle-at-speed, just set it True and forget about it
[21:37:28] <mozmck> so queue-buster means it will pause motion?
[21:37:37] <mozmck> seb_kuzminsky: I see, thanks!
[21:37:47] <seb_kuzminsky> it's... complicated, but sort of, yes
[21:38:10] <mozmck> where is the documentation for the main HAL components such as motion?
[21:38:35] <cradek> motion has a manpage
[21:38:48] <mozmck> ah, I see!
[21:38:52] <cradek> as do all (??) the hal components
[21:39:06] <Tom_itx> s/do/should
[21:39:20] <mozmck> even on the web under docs!
[21:39:28] <mozmck> ok, have to run, thanks for the help.
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