#linuxcnc-devel | Logs for 2014-08-05

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[00:32:13] <jepler> per_cpu_ptr(conf->percpu, cpu)->scribble = scribble;
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[00:38:28] <seb_kuzminsky> somebody shoot the guy who invented lvalue macros that look like functions
[00:40:03] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: your multifilebuilder does the right thing even without cmorley's id anti-collision patch (as expected)
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[00:42:52] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: hey cool
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[01:12:09] <jepler> this odroid kernel tree has ~2500 commits since the last commit on "real" kernel git
[01:12:44] <jepler> a lot of them have ubuntu thumbprints on them, but the commits aren't in the history of raring or precise's kernel git under the same IDs
[01:13:04] <jepler> Merge tag 'v3.8.13.26' of git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/linux into odroid-3.8.y
[01:13:25] <jepler> or else I just haven't found the right ubuntu kernel git yet
[01:14:02] <jepler> but anyway .. only 3 files conflicted when trying to do this: Merge tag 'v3.8.13.14-rt31-rebase' into odroid-3.8.y
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[01:17:26] <jepler> can cross-building a kernel with make-kpkg possibly be this easy ?? https://romanrm.net/a10/cross-compile-kernel
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[01:20:46] <CaptHindsight> jepler: yes, it magically works
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[01:23:01] <CaptHindsight> CodeSourcery was the other magic tool chain
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[01:27:15] <jepler> and it's done already?
[01:29:15] <CaptHindsight> for Allwinner http://linux-sunxi.org/Toolchain
[01:32:50] <jepler> now how do I build a "uInitrd"?
[01:33:56] <jepler> well here are some docs, let's try following them .. looks like this step has to be done on the device
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[01:50:42] <jepler> hmph. it doesn't boot and I've already misplaced the special serial cable so I can't check the console for "obvious problem here" type messages :-/
[01:54:55] <CaptHindsight> jepler: are you using a cubie2 or?
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[01:57:00] <CaptHindsight> http://olimex.wordpress.com/2013/11/05/building-the-ultimate-debian-sd-card-for-linux-with-kernel-3-4-for-a20-olinuxino-micro/
[01:57:20] <CaptHindsight> https://www.olimex.com/forum/index.php?topic=3023.msg12658#msg12658 Patching kernel with RT
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[02:08:00] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: reminder: http://timeguy.com/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=log;h=refs/heads/proposed
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[02:16:48] <jepler> CaptHindsight: odroid u2
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[02:22:45] <CaptHindsight> jepler: oh, no idea for exynos, the details for building u-boot across ARM soc's varies
[02:24:36] <CaptHindsight> it's tough since initializing ARM SOC's varies so much between devices, there's nothing close to a standard like with x86
[02:24:40] <jepler> maybe I'll see something useful on the serial console once I find the right USB adapter (it's an inconvenient 1.8v serial, I only have 3.3v and 5v handy besides the one I mislaid)
[02:25:24] <jepler> doesn't get far enough into the boot to write anything to /var/log/kern.log, so it's clearly falling over quite early
[02:27:08] <CaptHindsight> it might be stuck in u-boot
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[02:35:33] <jepler> triple-checked the uboot boot.txt, compared file listings of initrd, didn't turn up anything obvious
[02:35:40] <jepler> I'll be climbing the walls until I can see the console
[02:35:43] <jepler> or maybe sleeping
[02:40:46] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Chris Radek 052.6 5c3b88a 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/touchy/touchy.py Touchy: Disable macro button if there aren't any macros defined * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=5c3b88a
[02:41:04] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: i was just looking at your proposed branch
[02:41:11] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: I keep changing it
[02:41:31] <seb_kuzminsky> the touchy fix is obviously good, thanks for merging it... the splash screen one i've got mixed feelings about
[02:41:31] <cradek> it's just that one commit we've talked about briefly before
[02:41:48] <cradek> yeah I'm not thrilled about it either
[02:42:07] <seb_kuzminsky> it's jarring to see [AXIS_2]MAX_LIMIT != 0.000
[02:42:19] <cradek> I later noticed it only needs a few mm, instead of the full 1inch I put in there
[02:42:26] <seb_kuzminsky> it feels like a glitch in the matrix
[02:42:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/TTL-232RG-VREG1V8-WE/768-1070-ND/2441359 CABLE USB SERIAL 1.8V WIRE 100MA
[02:43:14] <cradek> do you think there's a better way to get the splash screen to run by default?
[02:43:29] <seb_kuzminsky> i wish it were enough to have those comments there that tell the user what to do, but apparently it's not, lots of people have reported that "it doesn't work"
[02:43:45] <cradek> I agree with all of that
[02:44:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.pololu.com/product/1308 CP2104 USB-to-Serial Adapter Carrier but you have to snip a trace and supply your own 1.8V, but it's only $6
[02:44:41] <cradek> jepler: just hook up the output to your 3.3v-in convertor. who cares if you can type?
[02:46:15] <seb_kuzminsky> i also don't like how all configs still fail, except for sim/axis/axis.ini :-(
[02:46:38] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Jeff Epler 052.6 ebc0785 06linuxcnc 03lib/python/multifilebuilder.py 10src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/stepconf.py stepconf: Try to work better with duplicate IDs * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=ebc0785
[02:47:18] <seb_kuzminsky> maybe a pre-touched-off var file would be better? that too is wrong, but at least it would work for all configs
[02:48:18] <seb_kuzminsky> that commit there ^^^ is jepler's fix for gtk-builder id collisions in stepconf, i verified it works on lucid & wheezy
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[02:48:41] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm ready for 2.6.1, maybe later tonight, anyone want to sneak anything in at the last second?
[02:49:11] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: I think we don't install var files at all, because they are created when they are needed
[02:50:08] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah :-/
[02:50:10] <seb_kuzminsky> bbl
[02:50:22] <cradek> with one inept exception: /usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples/sample-configs/sim/gmoccapy/gmoccapy_plasma/plasma.var.BAD
[02:51:24] <cradek> # generated by gladevcp.persistence.create_default_ini() on Sat Jan 18 13:04:31 2014
[02:51:35] <cradek> what the is this even
[02:53:38] <jepler> cradek: thanks for the idea, but janky shrouded header resists alligator clips and standard .1 male jumper wires and I want to go to bed instead of frying anything
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[02:53:58] <cradek> that's smart
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[02:55:49] <cradek> I guess gmoccapy saves its preferences in a file named something.var
[02:56:01] <cradek> that seems like a really bad idea
[03:07:26] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: I rewrote proposed with a smaller max.
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[03:33:36] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: I've never heard anybody complain about any of the other configs not running the splash screen. the one you get when you keep mashing enter is the one to fix.
[03:36:30] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, agreed
[03:36:46] <seb_kuzminsky> i think your solution is the least worst of the options i can think of
[03:36:56] <cradek> yay I guess
[03:37:32] <seb_kuzminsky> i added a comment to the ini
[03:37:37] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Chris Radek 052.6 51f96e5 06linuxcnc 04configs/sim/gmoccapy/gmoccapy_plasma/plasma.var.BAD Remove mistaken file * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=51f96e5
[03:37:37] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Chris Radek 052.6 33450db 06linuxcnc 10configs/sim/axis/axis.ini Let the splash screen run with default varfile * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=33450db
[03:37:37] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.6 4964890 06linuxcnc 10configs/sim/axis/axis.ini comment the funny Z max in sim/axis/axis.ini * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=4964890
[03:38:22] <cradek> perfect
[03:40:15] <cradek> yay stepconf
[03:43:55] <seb_kuzminsky> the noob user still needs to know "F1, F2, Ctrl-Home, R", but that's definitely a lower bar than re-zeroing G54...
[03:47:01] <seb_kuzminsky> bummer, 2.5 doesn't merge cleanly into 2.6
[03:47:37] <seb_kuzminsky> > grep '^<<<<' src/po/fr.po | wc -l
[03:47:37] <seb_kuzminsky> 2634
[03:47:57] <cradek> oh my
[03:48:14] <cradek> do you have the magic po-file merging set up?
[03:48:20] <cradek> I think there's a trick that helps
[03:51:19] <cradek> 0397cb1 is a mess
[03:52:52] <cradek> I can't find what I'm thinking of
[03:53:04] <seb_kuzminsky> 2.6 last changed fr.po via weblate in 2012
[03:53:25] <cradek> just take the 2.5 side and move on?
[03:53:56] <seb_kuzminsky> that seems right
[03:54:05] <seb_kuzminsky> imma run that by francis tisserant
[03:57:02] <seb_kuzminsky> 2.5 has... a pncconf fix for > 5 sserial firmwares, and some docs fixes
[03:57:19] <seb_kuzminsky> and updated french docs
[03:57:44] <seb_kuzminsky> i think that can wait for 2.6.2 (which can come as soon as the fr.po thing is resolved, doesn't have to be a long wait)
[03:58:49] <cradek> I think there's a good solution for this po merge thing. jepler might know it.
[03:59:04] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler's like stackoverflow incarnate
[03:59:08] <cradek> I agree you don't have to wait, if you feel like making 2.6.1. I think fixing stepconf is critical and should be released asap
[03:59:16] <seb_kuzminsky> me too
[04:00:05] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.6 ec9aed5 06linuxcnc 10VERSION 10debian/changelog update changelog and VERSION for 2.6.1 * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=ec9aed5
[04:00:05] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05signed tags 4ea9bf0 06linuxcnc 03v2.6.1 LinuxCNC v2.6.1 (tagged commit: ec9aed5) * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ea9bf0
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[04:00:59] ChanServ changed topic of #linuxcnc-devel to: http://linuxcnc.org | Latest release: 2.6.1
[04:01:09] <cradek> yay!
[04:01:48] <seb_kuzminsky> :-)
[04:02:27] <cradek> what rhymes with buildbot? I feel like writing a poem for it.
[04:02:42] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[04:02:43] <cradek> or release
[04:04:03] <seb_kuzminsky> i keep wanting to machine a little thank-you widget to the buildbot people, and the rtai people, but i keep not finding the time for it
[04:04:38] <seb_kuzminsky> maybe a turner's cube with "thanks to buildbot, from linuxcnc" engraved on it
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[04:07:32] <seb_kuzminsky> i should learn to hold my pushes on the evening leading up to a release...
[04:08:00] <cradek> I wish you could tell buildbot to just forget this one and move on
[04:08:15] <seb_kuzminsky> hmm yeah that's be good
[04:08:39] <seb_kuzminsky> well hey there is
[04:08:42] <seb_kuzminsky> imma push it
[04:08:50] * seb_kuzminsky pushed it
[04:09:07] <seb_kuzminsky> ugh, i think that was a mistake
[04:09:56] <seb_kuzminsky> hm actually that looks ok
[04:10:38] <cradek> that's a nice trick to remember
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[11:23:51] <jepler> src/po/git-merge-po is the file that's supposed to somehow help with merging po files. it has some instructions at the top.
[11:25:21] <jepler> I realized after going to bed that there might be messages on the monitor, if it was hooked up and turned on
[11:25:24] <jepler> so I looked, and there are.
[11:25:56] <jepler> "an error occurred while mounting /boot"
[11:26:09] <jepler> "press S to skip mounting or M for manual recovery"
[11:26:59] <jepler> and, two lines later, maybe the real error: systemd-udevd: could not open moddep file '/lib/modules/.../modules.dep.bin'
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[11:29:41] <jepler> it seems that my kernel doesn't agree with itself about whether it's "3.8.13.26-rt-rt31" or "3.8.13-rt-rt31"
[11:31:20] <jepler> well, way too much to hope the kernel would boot the first time
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[12:16:22] <jepler> Linux odroid 3.8.13.26-rt31 #5 SMP PREEMPT RT Tue Aug 5 06:38:40 CDT 2014 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux
[12:17:13] <skunkworks> ooh
[12:17:41] <skunkworks> what was happening las night?
[12:18:05] <jepler> however, latency's terrible
[12:18:15] <jepler> skunkworks: a series of things were wrong, which I could troubleshoot better once I could see the console
[12:18:24] <skunkworks> ah
[12:19:02] <jepler> oh after I "sudo make setuid", latency's much better
[12:20:13] <jepler> http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/latency-odroid.png
[12:20:31] <jepler> by no means am I "taxing" it, but it's running X and playing mp3s
[12:20:43] <skunkworks> very neat!
[12:20:53] <skunkworks> now spi? :)
[12:20:53] <jepler> note: the bins are 10x bigger than the usual latency-histogram
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[12:22:09] <jepler> maybe
[12:22:34] <skunkworks> that latency seems quit good for rt preempt
[12:23:10] <jepler> now time to go to $DAY_JOB
[12:23:37] <jepler> graph stays OK while stressing filesystem..
[12:23:58] <jepler> and while pingflooding
[12:24:57] <jepler> and while running glmark2-es2
[12:25:47] <jepler> latency image updated with 359 seconds runtime
[12:25:56] <jepler> anyway, really leaving this time
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[12:47:07] <jepler> darnit, the serial console cable is *not* at my office either
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[13:08:46] <jepler> ooh crw------- 1 root root 153, 0 Aug 5 08:00 /dev/spidev1.0
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[13:54:34] <cradek> rick is using remap now for his lathes, instead of a patch. that's great.
[13:54:53] <cradek> I don't get the 10000 thing, but whatevs
[14:02:30] <seb_kuzminsky> rick could easily write a custom tooltable-ui to put T>10,000 on a different tab
[14:03:18] <cradek> he only wants one offset per tool, like normal, but for some reason it should be 10000+toolno?
[14:03:40] * seb_kuzminsky shrugs
[14:03:43] <cradek> yep
[14:03:45] <seb_kuzminsky> 2.6.1 is on wlo
[14:03:47] <cradek> but, yay remap
[14:03:50] <cradek> cool!
[14:03:51] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah
[14:03:57] <seb_kuzminsky> see ya!
[14:04:59] <cradek> Get:1 http://linuxcnc.org/ wheezy/2.6 linuxcnc-dev i386 1:2.6.1 [589 kB]
[14:05:00] <cradek> whee
[14:05:19] <cradek> did you send out an announcement?
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[14:06:28] <cradek> yep
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[14:08:29] <jepler> $ ./a.out
[14:08:29] <jepler> > 55aa f00f
[14:08:29] <jepler> < ffff ffff
[14:08:52] <jepler> cool, writing a basic SPI userspace program is easy
[14:09:05] <jepler> with no device, it always reads "1"s due to a pull-up -- I'm assuming :-)
[14:09:11] <cradek> neat
[14:09:16] <cradek> your kernel works now?
[14:09:24] <jepler> yes. http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/latency-odroid.png
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[14:11:34] <cradek> neat
[14:11:58] <jepler> hm, it says 1_core but that's not right
[14:14:29] <jepler> apparently arm /proc/cpuinfo is different enough that latency_test doesn't quite grok it
[14:16:11] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 052.6 f0c9384 06linuxcnc 10configs/apps/latency/README 03configs/apps/latency/latency-histogram-1.demo latency-histogram-1: single thread app * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=f0c9384
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[14:43:53] <jepler> CaptHindsight: I worked out my booting problems. http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/latency-odroid.png
[14:47:37] <CaptHindsight> nice
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[14:52:56] <jepler> yeah I'm amazed to be honest
[14:53:12] <cradek> [I uploaded a new debian image based on 2.6.1, so stepconf works out of the box]
[14:53:31] <jepler> cradek: yay, thanks
[14:55:36] <CaptHindsight> jepler: best ARM so far, have you tried playing a Flash video in Firefox yet? Staring Firefox and playing a youtube has had the most dramatic effect on delay
[14:57:02] <jepler> CaptHindsight: no. why would I install flash?
[14:57:26] <CaptHindsight> even starting firefox
[14:58:25] <jepler> CaptHindsight: it's not a system without problems. I wrote about some of them here: http://emergent.unpythonic.net/odroid-u3
[15:01:29] <CaptHindsight> so it's just like the other ARM distro projects, everyone races to be first and say they have a working distro but half of it is broken
[15:01:34] <jepler> yup
[15:03:18] <jepler> but especially if I can make my 7i43 run in spi mode it is looking like a nice headless/embedded system to develop linuxcnc on
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[15:21:52] <jepler> 4096 bytes over SPI at 25MHz should take about .0013s. strace shows about .0016 from ioctl to ioctl, so that's pretty good (not running with RT privs)
[15:22:10] <jepler> .0015 in ioctl
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[15:28:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.andahammer.com/t1-nanopc/
[15:31:11] <jepler> > Ludicrously long list of features goes here! (Here is the beginning).
[15:32:06] <jepler> > Source Code in GitHub repositories - to be made public soon.
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[15:34:42] <jepler> ah, maybe this tree I have is based on ubuntu's 3.8.y.z extended stable. https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/7/1/694
[15:35:04] <jepler> I didn't try adding that one as an upstream before now
[15:39:06] <CaptHindsight> SPI on the 4412 prime is 50 MHz max
[15:39:49] <jepler> yup
[15:40:42] <jepler> a level translator is required, and the one I picked is good to ~30MHz according to the datasheet, so I figured I'd start trying at 25MHz
[15:41:19] <CaptHindsight> no SATA :(
[15:41:27] <jepler> no, and the ethernet is USB
[15:41:31] <jepler> and not gb
[15:41:50] <jepler> but the emmc is removable and fast
[15:42:12] <CaptHindsight> and mini PCIe on some boards looks like it is just power and USB
[15:42:19] <jepler> the headers are inconveient (for home prototyping) 2mm pitch, hidden on the bottom, and blocked by the standard case
[15:42:54] <CaptHindsight> there is a Tiny 4412 COM board that's available in China
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[15:43:02] <CaptHindsight> ~$60
[15:43:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.arm9.net/Super4412/super4412-01.jpg
[15:44:12] <jepler> ugh, no mounting provision?
[15:44:49] <CaptHindsight> friction fit 2mm headers
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[15:46:31] <CaptHindsight> I'm finding more but I have to translate
[15:46:47] <jepler> that's OK
[15:46:57] <jepler> I don't need to be board shopping now, I have one that's perfectly adequate
[15:49:13] <CaptHindsight> they have them with smt low profile board to board connectors
[15:49:49] <CaptHindsight> and you could have a large hard drive on USB
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[16:05:11] <CaptHindsight> http://img03.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i3/298010950/TB2hZfoXVXXXXbVXXXXXXXXXXXX_!!298010950.jpg
[16:07:04] <ssi> jepler: which odroid are you working with?
[16:07:15] <jepler> ssi: U3
[16:07:27] <ssi> cool
[16:07:40] <seb_kuzminsky> the u3 is the bees' knees
[16:07:54] <jepler> it's not perfect
[16:08:06] <CaptHindsight> also as a giant SO leaded module http://img02.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i2/153580992/TB223b_XVXXXXaUXpXXXXXXXXXX-153580992.jpg
[16:08:22] <jepler> CaptHindsight: that last one's just crazy
[16:08:48] <CaptHindsight> yup
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[16:44:03] <jepler> after a couple hours, I have some latencies out at about 65us
[16:44:09] <jepler> still not particularly stressing the machine
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[16:49:01] <memleak> try firefox + youtube ;)
[16:49:10] <CaptHindsight> keeping the cores at 100% on ARM tends to keep the latency the lowest
[16:49:45] <pcw_home> idle hands are the devil's workshop
[16:49:47] <CaptHindsight> 100% busy and at the highest core speed
[16:50:10] <memleak> (all late night with jimmy fallon youtube clips work with HTML5 / no flash)
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[16:52:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Jeff Epler 05master 3beb85d 06linuxcnc 10scripts/latency-histogram latency-histogram: Use getconf for ncpus * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=3beb85d
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[16:56:28] <jepler> hum, why would cpuinfo_max_freq and scaling_max_freq be different?
[16:56:37] <jepler> cpuinfo_cur_freq:1704000
[16:56:38] <jepler> cpuinfo_max_freq:2000000
[16:56:40] <jepler> scaling_max_freq:1704000
[16:57:22] <jepler> anyway, it looks like my rt kernel configuration selected "performance" as the only scaling governor, so the CPUs are stuck at top speed
[16:58:01] <memleak> scaling comes from kernel cpuinfo comes from.. firmware?
[16:58:09] <memleak> u-boot possibly?
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[17:00:11] <CaptHindsight> Answers: (A) Confused developer. (B) Poor Docs. (C) Unknown. (D) Both A and B. (E) Just works
[17:00:49] <jepler> the odroid-u3 is specced as 1.7GHz
[17:01:24] <CaptHindsight> maybe it overclocks to 2GHz
[17:02:36] <CaptHindsight> http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=764&p=3338
[17:05:04] <jepler> yeah, seems to
[17:05:55] <jepler> .. but now it's crashed
[17:06:08] <jepler> I hope it's not catching on fire, I'm at work and it's at home :-/
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[17:08:00] <ssi> hah
[17:15:40] <CaptHindsight> cubie2 (A20) latency was ~80uS running both cores
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[18:46:46] <jepler> CaptHindsight: so your experience is that running 100% loaded CPUs helps above and beyond ensuring governor is performance? Were you using a tree that did /dev/cpu_dma_latency hardening?
[18:47:22] <jepler> (linuxcnc master branch will do the latter, but it doesn't touch performance governor)
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[19:32:56] <CaptHindsight> jepler: some ARM devices have very aggressive power management and even with the core supposedly set at some frequency would still sleep / throttle down the core speed
[19:33:33] <CaptHindsight> why it would still do that remains a mystery, it could be broken governor settings or something else
[19:35:25] <CaptHindsight> it's difficult to track down when using poor docs, no access to the engineers that would have his register specs in his notebook or uncommented supposedly working source
[19:38:17] <jepler> indeed
[19:39:28] <jepler> sometimes I see the attraction of writing your whole motion control stack for an 8-bit microcontroller: you can still cycle count over there
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[19:40:07] <jepler> but 98% of the time I think the reprap people are nuts to try to do that much on something only a few times more powerful than my first home computer
[19:40:52] <CaptHindsight> my guess is that even misconfigured governor and power management keeping the cores close to 100% keeps them from throttling down to save power and mucking up the latency as a result
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[19:44:45] <mozmck> jepler: sounds better though if you say they are many times more powerful than the computers used to put man on the moon: http://www.computerweekly.com/feature/Apollo-11-The-computers-that-put-man-on-the-moon
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[19:57:36] <CaptHindsight> I mostly use servos and perform image processing so the 8b micros are out for me
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[20:37:00] <ssi> it might be feasible to do a softcore in an fpga and offload our entire motion stack to a mesa card :)
[20:37:59] <CaptHindsight> but aren't FPGA boards expensive and confusing?
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[20:40:34] <ssi> yes, exactly :)
[20:41:09] <jepler> ssi: peter already puts a fine softcore in many of his firmwares. It's called "dumbass8" and I'm sure it would be a super fun project to port gcc to it
[20:42:13] <jepler> actually .. in all seriousness .. someone heroic needs to write a linux assembler for it (he uses a windows table-driven assembler for it), so that the hostmot2-firmware project can build that part of the software instead of using pre-built hex files
[20:42:22] <ssi> I'm sure there are cycle-accurate arm softcores that already have toolchains for them which would make quite nice motion microcontrollers
[20:43:02] <ssi> arm7tdmi is a nice architecture to work with
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[20:48:59] <jepler> wow this board (odroid-xu3) appears to have 12 little surface mount inductors by what I assume is the voltage regulator / PMIC .. all connected by fat traces, too
[20:49:08] <jepler> http://dn.odroid.com/homebackup/201407071202252748.jpg
[20:50:22] <ssi> yeah, looks like a multi-output multi-phase PMIC or something similar
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[20:50:35] <PCW> It would be nice to have a linux assembler for D8, if just for the twiddler module (generic smart I/O peripheral, so possibly user generated code)
[20:51:32] <jepler> > MAX77802 is a PMIC that contains 10 high efficiency Buck regulators, 32 Low-dropout (LDO) regulators [...]
[20:51:35] <jepler> (no public datasheet)
[20:52:03] <PCW> 32 LDOs !!!
[20:52:42] <jepler> not sure if it's the same one, the board that's on has 14 inductors http://dn.odroid.com/homebackup/201307292018402641.jpg
[20:53:06] <PCW> must be a cell phone/tablet thing that can power down each output selectively
[20:53:08] <jepler> I suppose you might as well have an LDO for every subsystem you might want to turn on or off
[20:53:22] <jepler> might that design also reduce transients on the other outputs when switching on/off?
[20:53:45] <PCW> yeah staged startup
[20:55:23] <PCW> (the Ethernet code uses a 16 bit variant of D8 and the resolver code uses a 32 bit variant)
[20:55:33] <ssi> D16, D32? :)
[20:55:49] <PCW> ba32
[20:56:52] <jepler> bad-?
[20:57:06] <PCW> big
[20:57:16] <PCW> (too many cells)
[21:02:45] <PCW> Most of the peripheral processors (sserial, resolver, twiddler) allow downloading the processor's
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[21:02:46] <PCW> ROM from the host so you can try new code without re-compiling the FPGA
[21:04:02] <jepler> you'd think there would be a good table-driven assembler for linux
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[21:04:44] <PCW> the one we use will run on linux but its shareware
[21:04:53] <jepler> it does?
[21:05:00] <PCW> yes
[21:05:23] <jepler> I should look into this again
[21:05:39] <jepler> it seems like two years ago you sent me a link to a windows program that I tried but failed to get to run in wine
[21:06:40] <jepler> can you give me the information again? I'd love to give this another try.
[21:07:07] <PCW> theres a native linuxcnc version (I think some code needs to be run through a macro processor not sure which particular on it is)
[21:08:45] <PCW> http://home.comcast.net/~tasm/
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[21:11:00] <jepler> OK, so I'd need an eRegistration which gets me access to the source code, and that builds on Linux?
[21:12:45] <PCW> yeah we just bought it of course
[21:13:16] <jepler> small change
[21:13:46] <Tom_itx> what are the 'attic' configs in the startup screen?
[21:14:09] <jepler> it's a higher barrier to someone who wants to build hostmot2-firmware than "download some free (but proprietary) software"
[21:14:47] <jepler> Tom_itx: did you read the text which is shown when you click on the "attic" entry itself in the configuration selector?
[21:15:03] <cradek> holy smokes, is this the same tasm I was using 20 years ago?
[21:15:14] <jepler> cradek: if so, it's just $10 to upgrade!
[21:15:29] <PCW> No its not Borland tasm
[21:15:41] <cradek> no mine wasn't borland, it was some shareware thing
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[21:17:24] <cradek> Speech Technology Incorporated 837 Front Street South, Issaquah, WA 98027 August, 1990 Version 2.8
[21:17:35] <cradek> yep, same address, different name
[21:17:45] <cradek> but it was 24 years, not 20
[21:17:49] <PCW> I was able to write a single stepper/disassembler in a few hours because the instruction set is so simple
[21:17:51] <PCW> wonder if there a good open source simple assembler skeleton available
[21:17:52] <Tom_itx> jepler, thanks. i just opened the tab and never clicked on the item
[21:18:41] <cradek> (yes I knew right where it was)
[21:18:59] <PCW> hmm http://www.penguin.cz/~niki/tdasm/
[21:19:49] <jepler> PCW: yeah, I can't tell if it does anything useful
[21:20:08] <jepler> it's certainly unlikely to read your tasm sources unmodified
[21:20:56] <PCW> yeah there's a fair overhead just to figure out how close it might be
[21:22:24] <jepler> it must not be a very long program to blink an LED, in terms of # of distinct instructions and encodings
[21:22:49] <jepler> a first step .. then you'd need to make sure it supports all the different encodings; I don't know how many encodings you have.
[21:22:52] <jepler> surely not many
[21:23:49] <PCW> fastblink
[21:23:51] <PCW> ldab ff
[21:23:53] <PCW> stab led
[21:23:55] <PCW> ldab 00
[21:23:56] <PCW> stab led
[21:23:58] <PCW> jmp fastblink
[21:24:54] <jepler> that software's not remotely close to building on modern g++
[21:26:39] <PCW> not terribly surprising
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[21:28:12] <PCW> there's only one currently used encoding for each processor (with the exception of hm2_usb which I really dont want to muck about with)
[21:33:24] <jepler> well .. I repeatedly hit tdasm until it compiled
[21:35:20] <jepler> also, "stab led" is funny
[21:35:54] <jepler> led stands for a memory or I/O location?
[21:37:32] <PCW> yes
[21:37:55] <PCW> maybe ledloc would be better
[21:37:56] <jepler> is "b" a byte suffix?
[21:38:01] <PCW> yes
[21:38:32] <jepler> how do you tell the difference between lda which reads memory and lda which reads a constant?
[21:38:48] <jepler> or maybe you just make memory location 00 have value 00 and memory location ff have ff
[21:39:13] <PCW> sorry
[21:39:15] <PCW> ldib 00
[21:39:17] <PCW> stab ledloc
[21:39:18] <PCW> ...
[21:39:38] <PCW> or
[21:39:39] <PCW> ldab zeroloc
[21:39:41] <PCW> stab ledloc
[21:44:21] <jepler> so for ldi, opcode is "opr" (hex "0") and opcode2 is "ldi" (hex "1")? If the immediate value is ff, then is that the two bytes 01 ff ?
[21:45:53] <PCW> yes (well all d8 instructions are 16 bits)
[21:46:05] <jepler> but if I'm viewing it as a stream of bytes
[21:46:13] <PCW> sure
[21:47:07] <jepler> and stab is 0xbXYZ where XYZ is ledloc?
[21:47:19] <PCW> yep
[21:47:58] <PCW> not terribly complicated :-)
[21:48:22] <jepler> hmm did this guy get around to implementing labels?
[21:48:55] <PCW> pretty painful without lables
[21:49:10] <PCW> or labels even
[21:54:09] <jepler> Error 7: syntax error
[21:56:23] <PCW> seems like there would be a better starting point that had all the assembler basics
[21:56:35] <jepler> it's not gnu as, I can tell you that
[21:57:06] <PCW> Yeah
[21:57:17] <jepler> I don't think it's this software either
[21:58:05] <jepler> well, I decided to spend $25 on a copy of TASM and intend to see whether I can integrate it into the hostmot build
[21:58:32] <jepler> building the embedded program ROMs in our build process is still better than not building them
[21:59:19] <seb_kuzminsky> nasm? yasm?
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[21:59:32] <PCW> there ares still some missing bits (our makeinc and makerom utils)
[22:00:31] <jepler> turning an object file into a vhdl array seems like a much more tractable problem
[22:00:42] <jepler> not sure if that's what those tools you name are concerned with
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[22:02:51] <PCW> yes ROM text i trivial, makeinc just makes our include files generic
[22:03:30] <PCW> (so the same source can make C, Pascal, Assy constants)
[22:04:07] <PCW> for assy only what it does is trivial
[22:06:32] <jepler> ah
[22:07:46] <PCW> makerom also checks for some processor code sequence violations
[22:08:42] <PCW> (the assembled should do this but not smart enough to)
[22:08:52] <PCW> assembler
[22:09:53] <jepler> that would be a bit more work
[22:10:49] <jepler> I finally got tdasm to assemble something
[22:11:46] <jepler> $ cat d8.tst | tr '\n' ';'; echo
[22:11:46] <jepler> ldib 00; stab abc; ldib ff; stab abc; jmp 000;
[22:11:46] <jepler> $ ./tdasm/tdasm tables/d8.tbl d8.tst
[22:11:46] <jepler> $ od -tx2 d8.tst.out
[22:11:46] <jepler> 0000000 0100 babc 01ff babc 1000
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[22:12:30] <jepler> PCW or seb: which version of webpack do I need these days?
[22:12:49] <jepler> the card I particularly care about targeting is my 7i43-400
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[22:13:40] <PCW> 9.2 for 5I20,4I65 >13.0 for everything else (I haven't moved to avocado yet)
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[22:14:58] <jepler> yeah, absolutely no sign that labels even started to be implemented in tdasm
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[22:15:39] <PCW> so you get to guess jmp target addresses? thats nice
[22:16:15] <jepler> PCW: seems like
[22:16:41] <PCW> not sure thats a whole lot better than hex
[22:16:48] <jepler> not at all
[22:16:59] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: in hostmot2-firmware.git, build.py has a dict named card2ise that has the card to ... uh, ise mapping
[22:17:21] <seb_kuzminsky> the buildbot currently uses 10.1 and 13.3
[22:17:32] <seb_kuzminsky> 13.3 for 7i43
[22:17:48] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: ok
[22:18:46] <seb_kuzminsky> those versions were the latest, at the time i set up that machine, which was years ago
[22:18:58] <seb_kuzminsky> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4.0K 2011-12-22 18:42 13.3/
[22:19:05] <jepler> PCW: is 10.1 OK for 5i20,4i65?
[22:19:41] <PCW> If it ever worked its OK (I still use 9.2)
[22:20:09] <PCW> (and 13.1 for everything else)
[22:20:10] <jepler> there are sure people who use 5i20s
[22:20:12] <jepler> cradek is one
[22:20:27] <jepler> heck, I'm one
[22:20:47] <jepler> it was the first board I tested with uspace, and had a panic about the identity eeprom that had lost its programming
[22:21:55] <PCW> Yeah many 5I20's out there (thousands and many for linuxcnc)
[22:22:09] <seb_kuzminsky> that's awesome
[22:22:54] <PCW> people still buy them
[22:28:25] <seb_kuzminsky> i used one until i ran out of io and switched to a 5i22
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[22:35:31] <PCW> You can use a 7i90 for more I/O now
[22:39:23] <seb_kuzminsky> 7i90 and 5i20 both have 72, no? did i miss something?
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[22:45:12] <PCW> 7I90 can be a sserial remote
[22:46:45] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm running a custom firmware you made for me that doesn't have sserial
[22:47:13] <seb_kuzminsky> yet another reason to get the new hm2 firmwares building right...
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[22:58:30] <Tom_itx> i think i loaded the last one they published which was 14.7
[22:58:40] <Tom_itx> for the newer boards
[22:59:15] <kwallace> Just in case anyone is interested: http://frankieflood.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2014-08-03T13:15:00-05:00
[23:06:46] <seb_kuzminsky> kwallace: neat
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[23:31:27] <kwallace> seb_kuzminsky: It's a little strange that the guys comment's were so favorable. I have a long list of things I know are not so good that I would like to fix, but I suspect they are things that only I would notice.
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[23:36:01] <PCW> Lathe stuff?
[23:38:25] <kwallace> The lathe function seems pretty solid, but things like the corners on various buttons are different size or text is different size.
[23:39:59] <ssi> kwallace: you have one of their lathes?
[23:40:07] <PCW> Ahh the GUI. still looks like they spent a lot of time on it
[23:40:32] <ssi> is it linuxcnc with a proprietary UI?
[23:40:42] <ssi> the backplot looks like axis
[23:41:24] <kwallace> No lathe, but I have the smaller 770 mill on loan.
[23:41:57] <kwallace> I've been a small cog on the UI for over a year now.
[23:42:09] <ssi> ahh I see
[23:42:34] <ssi> as an employee, or a volunteer, or what?
[23:42:44] <kwallace> Yes, the backplot is Gremlin with some of our tweaks.
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[23:43:05] <ssi> hm you may or may not have some insight into one of my issues
[23:43:05] <kwallace> I'm on contract.
[23:43:34] <ssi> i have two gantry machines that are running joints_axes with two joints for the Y axis
[23:43:40] <ssi> and both of them have a backplot problem
[23:43:49] <ssi> they seem to scale projected and actual toolpaths at 2x height
[23:43:55] <ssi> like it's summing both joints' motion or something
[23:44:08] <ssi> I have no clue where to start looking in the code to find the problem
[23:46:40] <ssi> here's an example:
[23:46:41] <ssi> http://www.prototechnical.com/~imcmahon/backplot_problem.png
[23:46:47] <ssi> that's an array of 3/4" circles
[23:46:54] <kwallace> I've gotten into Gremlin far enough to try an fix particular issues. It and OpenGL are not easy to deal with.
[23:47:05] <ssi> and they all fit within the machine envelope, which is correctly represented by the dotted red rectangle
[23:47:14] <ssi> and the pink lines correctly estimate the overall job travel
[23:47:19] <ssi> it's bizarre
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[23:47:27] <ssi> I imagine the probelm probably isn't within gremlin
[23:47:31] <ssi> it's probably whatever's feeding it
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[23:49:23] <kwallace> I'll take a look at Gremlin with respect to your problem and let you know what I come up with. I usually surprise myself when I make any headway with OpenGL.
[23:50:15] <skunkworks_> kwallace: I got to see your wizards in madison - very nice work
[23:50:49] <ssi> are the conversational pieces using ngcgui?
[23:50:54] <ssi> or something more ccustom
[23:51:14] <skunkworks_> jepler: did you smoke it?
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[23:54:02] <jepler> skunkworks_: haven't gone home yet
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[23:56:20] <kwallace> ssi: it's more custom. It's more like GladeVCP, with using Glade and Python, but without the GladeVCP bridge. GladeVCP does a bit of work in the background to glue Glade, Python and LinuxCNC together. The people I work with have figured the glue part out in order to get the look and feel they want.
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[23:58:31] <ssi> it looks like they have roughing and finishing cycles
[23:58:37] <ssi> that's one thing I want very very badly in linuxcnc
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