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[21:47:02] <cradek> huh, I think for the first time in the 11 years I've had a gpg key available on my website and on the keyservers, a stranger has sent me an everyday email, encrypted.
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[21:50:28] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: I was just looking for you...
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[21:54:05] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: I've tried every way to get the livecd built with our kernel on it, but I think our kernel packaging is broken, possibly in more than one way. my attempts to get and rebuild it failed too - as far as I can tell there's no corresponding source from which to change/reproduce the deb I have
[21:54:35] <cradek> there's the corresponding linux-source package which just sticks a tarball in /usr/src
[21:54:57] <cradek> but that doesn't seem right - I expected to be able to use apt-get source like usual
[21:56:12] <cradek> hm if I extract it, it does have a debian directory...
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[22:01:33] <pcw_home> I notice a lot of people have trouble with the hal net command needing a signal
[22:01:34] <pcw_home> I wonder if it makes things better or worse to have anonymous signals
[22:01:36] <pcw_home> either
[22:01:37] <pcw_home> net pin pin pin
[22:01:39] <pcw_home> or
[22:01:40] <pcw_home> link pin pin pin
[22:02:05] <cradek> we originally had linkpp, which would use the pin name as the signal name
[22:02:09] <cradek> it was utterly confusing
[22:02:43] <pcw_home> sometimes the extra name is just a distraction though
[22:03:22] <cradek> would those just not show up in the signals list of all the utilities?
[22:03:31] <pcw_home> most schematic capture/layout software have them
[22:04:03] <pcw_home> they typically show up like ***NNN
[22:06:28] <cradek> I'm not against the idea of anonymous signals - but I don't think it's a solution to the problem of people not knowing the hal concepts well enough to be able to use the net command
[22:07:11] <cradek> I'm not sure it would leave them less baffled, but I guess at least their hal file (that they don't really understand) would run
[22:07:38] <pcw_home> yeah it a beginner problem but i do have some sympathy since the extra names do add some clutter
[22:07:39] <cradek> does the net command give a crappy error that could be improved instead?
[22:07:45] <KimK> Hi gents. I like having the signal name because it serves as the "wire number", but instead of just being a number, it (hopefully) adds functional info.
[22:08:55] <pcw_home> It can but sometimes it just effectively means you need to make a clone of the pin name
[22:10:27] <cradek> I guess I have never found myself doing that. I've always used something descriptive.
[22:11:10] <cradek> but I suppose motion.spindle-whatever is descriptive enough, telling that the signal is for whatevering the spindle
[22:11:27] <pcw_home> well if you have multistage logic for example, labeling every inner term is more of a pain than it needs to be
[22:12:08] <cradek> true
[22:12:25] <cradek> you could still use linkpp in those cases, but it only takes two pins
[22:12:45] <cradek> I might be tainted because I use classicladder whenever any logic is remotely complex
[22:12:48] <KimK> Yes, that (cloning pin name) can happen, especially with a long list of simple repeated functions (limit sws, etc.?) Maybe I should add something to the docs about helping yourself by providing good labels/names?
[22:12:51] <cradek> it has the internal variables for you
[22:13:13] <pcw_home> kind of like a schematic you really dont want to label every wire
[22:14:22] <cradek> it would be not very hard to have: net anonymous pin pin pin
[22:14:38] <cradek> halcmd could treat that specially and make special unique names
[22:15:28] <pcw_home> not a big deal, I just notice people stumble on that a lot
[22:15:44] <cradek> you'd change the results for, but not break, configs that happened to have a net called anonymous
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[22:16:39] <cradek> I'd thoughtfully consider a patch that adds this
[22:16:58] <KimK> OT, I hope you guys are doing well
[22:17:11] <cradek> I am, same to you
[22:17:22] <KimK> Thanks
[22:17:53] <pcw_home> I'm good
[22:19:13] <pcw_home> finally got some hot weather after weeks of 50/60s
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[22:19:47] <KimK> Good to know, we rely on you and your products more and more, it seems.
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[22:20:04] <Tom_itx> we had over 100 last week
[22:20:12] <Tom_itx> mostly 90's
[22:20:44] <KimK> Hi Tom_itx
[22:20:51] <Tom_itx> hello
[22:21:09] <pcw_home> very rarely get that hot here (hot for us is 80s)
[22:21:21] <Tom_itx> been windy all day here
[22:22:12] <Tom_itx> probably get some storms later this evening
[22:23:32] <pcw_home> Same here (windy) but a big change in temperature
[22:23:34] <pcw_home> (our squash that were in suspended animation since they were planted
[22:23:35] <pcw_home> seem to have doubled in size in a couple days)
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[22:24:40] <pcw_home> and the sheep are sleeping in the rain shelter for shade
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