#linuxcnc-devel | Logs for 2013-11-13

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[00:05:44] <ju-emb> does that card provide hardware step generation as the 5i23 does?
[00:06:10] -!- micges [micges!~toudi@evl173.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[00:06:24] <ju-emb> if yes, how works the flow of data from parport to the card?
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[00:12:02] <micges> ju-emb: yes 7i43 has hardware step generators
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[00:14:52] <ju-emb> anyone here who can tell me about performance of that card on step generation?
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[00:15:54] <ju-emb> for me, getting stepp-generation out of the PC to hardware was a great win
[00:17:28] <micges> ju-emb: up to 12 stepgens with more than 2MHz step frequency
[00:17:44] <ju-emb> I use 5i23 , so I'm wondering about how it works with parport vs pci
[00:19:07] <micges> besides that 7i43 is on cable, there is no important difference between them
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[00:21:28] <ju-emb> right now, I'm just pregnant with the idea, implementing a parport driver for the beagle and panda, and get stepgeneration out of the cpu into one of those mesa cards
[00:22:03] <ju-emb> actually it's not the cpu, it's pru
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[00:30:40] <pzpz> what is the difference between the 5i22-1 and the 5i22-1.5?
[00:31:31] <ju-emb> pzpz: FPGA has more gates on the 1.5
[00:32:24] <pzpz> what do you mean by "gates"
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[00:33:12] <ju-emb> logic ports, but for your application the 5i22-1 is just fine
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[00:34:36] <pzpz> but both of them is 96 I/O bits
[00:36:29] <ju-emb> that's right.
[00:36:31] <ju-emb> the gates count in a FPGA says something about how much "intelligence" you can implement in one chip
[00:37:08] <pzpz> 1m intelligence for my cnc is ok?
[00:37:24] <ju-emb> that's right
[00:38:11] <pzpz> ok
[00:38:39] <pzpz> i'm looking in the datasheet now for pinout
[00:40:19] <ju-emb> if you're not really into hal config right now, there is a tool to config your machine with mesa cards
[00:41:16] <ju-emb> I think that tool gives you the pins where you can connect stepper signals
[00:41:54] <pzpz> but i like to plan first, make a wire diagram, and see that everything look ok, make a part list and order it.
[00:42:17] <ju-emb> pins that are not dedicated to stepper signals you can use as PGIO
[00:42:54] <pzpz> so what i need to buy next?
[00:43:07] <ju-emb> so, just count the IO pins from the mesa card, but don't fix signals to connectors
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[00:43:33] <pzpz> http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/5i22man.pdf
[00:43:42] <pzpz> page 8
[00:43:54] <pzpz> the pin out start
[00:46:28] <ju-emb> yes, i know that.
[00:46:30] <ju-emb> But the FPGA Firmware uses some predefined Pins for Step Dir Enable signals
[00:46:32] <ju-emb> If you plan your wiring, you have to use the dedicated Pins on the connector
[00:47:55] <pzpz> so lats do it like block diagram
[00:48:47] <ju-emb> that's a great idea
[00:48:49] <ju-emb> just fix the pin count, not the pin location on the header
[00:49:45] <pzpz> what pin location?
[00:50:45] <ju-emb> each pin on each header has a number representing it's position on the header
[00:51:41] <ju-emb> so you have header1 pin 27 referred as 1.27 for example
[00:52:07] <pzpz> ohh the P?
[00:52:15] <ju-emb> that assignment you shouldn't do right now
[00:52:32] <ju-emb> yes you have P1-4
[00:52:47] <pzpz> i see P2-P5?
[00:52:56] <pzpz> whare is P1?
[00:53:28] <ju-emb> Sorry, I'm doing that out of the head, not with the datasheet open
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[00:53:46] <pzpz> ok..
[00:53:59] <ju-emb> you have four 50 Pin headers on the 5i22
[00:54:37] <ju-emb> ok, now datasheet open
[00:54:49] <ju-emb> the pins are named in sequence
[00:54:51] <pzpz> it is like IDE connector?
[00:55:02] <pzpz> ok i see
[00:55:03] <ju-emb> 0 .. 95
[00:55:36] <pzpz> so it 96 i/o
[00:56:21] <ju-emb> so each pin has it's number, but what I'm talking about is,
[00:56:24] <ju-emb> don't assign a signal at each pin number yet
[00:56:50] <pzpz> almost half of the pins in the connecte are GND..
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[00:57:35] <ju-emb> that's for noise immunity, it's an electronic rule
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[00:58:18] <pzpz> it is grat!
[00:58:38] <ju-emb> ??
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[00:58:47] <pzpz> grate*
[01:00:06] <pzpz> *excellent
[01:00:10] <ju-emb> on the cable flat you have always a signal then gnd signal gnd
[01:01:01] <ju-emb> so you don't get ghost signals made by inductivity
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[01:01:26] <pzpz> this is fine.
[01:01:56] <pzpz> i need a special cable?
[01:03:39] <pzpz> i have a-lot of IDE but it is 40 pins..
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[01:04:12] <ju-emb> I use the same flat cable as you use inside your PCs for CD or DVD drive, but there you need some counterpart to it, that involves soldering.
[01:04:14] <ju-emb> today we just talked about this and there are another solutions too
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[01:05:20] <ju-emb> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/breadboard_basic_side.jpg
[01:05:22] <ju-emb> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Til4cZnLeEZ6Y2jizdn8-tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[01:05:45] <ju-emb> have a look at this links
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[01:08:00] <pzpz> http://www.ebay.com/itm/23inch-Internal-IDC-50-Pin-SCSI-Male-Female-Extension-Ribbon-Cable-CablesOnline-/280754237369
[01:08:13] <pzpz> 4 cables like that?
[01:09:39] <pzpz> http://www.mesanet.com/graphics/parallel/5i22colo.png
[01:09:42] <ju-emb> yes, but with two female connectors
[01:09:53] <pzpz> ok
[01:10:03] <pzpz> now i see the card
[01:11:25] <pzpz> is the some as scsi connector so no problem..
[01:11:46] <ju-emb> so if you know how to solder, you buy a few of those prototyping boards and 50 Pin headers
[01:12:08] <ju-emb> that's right, the old SCSI use that connectors
[01:13:03] <kwallace1> These are handy: http://www.winfordeng.com/products/cat_pbc.php
[01:13:29] <ju-emb> not really
[01:13:48] <kwallace1> Not really handy?
[01:14:12] <pzpz> what i need to put at the other end of the cables?
[01:14:46] <ju-emb> right
[01:14:48] <ju-emb> if you use the gecko drives, there are screw terminals on it, so you have to transform from Flat cable to Screw Terminals
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[01:15:20] <kwallace1> I find them handy to get cables plugged into a breadboard, otherwise they aren't handy.
[01:16:09] <micges> http://www.winfordeng.com/products/brk2x25.php
[01:16:11] <kwallace1> On the other end maybe: http://www.winfordeng.com/products/cat_brk.php
[01:16:44] <pzpz> so i need to convert the 96 i/o form the 4 50 pins flat cables to 96 terminal blocks
[01:17:05] <pzpz> what about the GND pins?
[01:17:17] <pzpz> and noise problems?
[01:18:07] <Tom_itx> every other pin is a GND
[01:18:49] <pzpz> so what to do with tham?
[01:19:14] <Tom_itx> i used one and ignored most of them
[01:19:19] <ju-emb> yes, your drivers need gnd beside of the signals so you can go one gnd, step dir enable to the driver
[01:19:22] <kwallace1> The adapter that micges linked to has solder points for the signals and ground, so just solder jumpers to all the grounds.
[01:19:26] <pzpz> just not connect them?
[01:20:56] <micges> kwallace1: thanks for link, I was looking such adapters few times
[01:21:00] <ju-emb> just bridge all the gnds together and solder that qty of gnd terminals as you need
[01:21:09] <pzpz> 45$ wow
[01:21:53] <pzpz> i can make something like that
[01:22:01] <pzpz> no problem at all
[01:22:06] <kwallace1> Flat ribbon is not the best for noise but often is good enough. Twisted pair ribbon is better. Often the far end of the grounds are left unconnected.
[01:22:23] <pzpz> i know how to solder and make pcbs..
[01:22:43] <ju-emb> so no problem with that
[01:22:58] <pzpz> i can get noises??
[01:23:13] <pzpz> it is a common problem with the mesa cards?
[01:23:52] <ju-emb> not with mesa cards, it's a general problem
[01:24:06] <kwallace1> I use the Winford stuff when I'm on the clock, but tend to make what I need when it's my own project. http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00004-1a.jpg
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[01:24:51] <ju-emb> just keep the ribbon cables short, just to come out of the PC
[01:25:10] <pzpz> no problem.
[01:25:31] <pzpz> half price http://www.ebay.com/itm/IDC50-2x25-Pins-0-1-Male-Header-Breakout-Board-Terminal-Block-Connector-/190903623678?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c72be1ffe
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[01:26:38] <ju-emb> after that cables go in different directions, and have space between it, space or twist is your friend in noise immunity, but if you twist, you have to know how
[01:27:07] <kwallace1> In my experience, the most important noise item is to have power input line filters on your VFDs and switch mode power supplies. That should prevent most problems right off the bat.
[01:28:01] <pzpz> what do you mean by twist, them?
[01:28:10] <kwallace1> The filter is the shiny bit: http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00024-1a.jpg
[01:28:10] <pzpz> is a flat cable...
[01:28:11] <ju-emb> the breakout board is the one you need, but 20 bucks
[01:28:45] <pzpz> i can make it
[01:29:20] <ju-emb> not twisting the flat, from the screw terminal to your drivers and switches
[01:29:21] <pzpz> i have alot of this
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[01:30:18] <ju-emb> would say
[01:30:20] <ju-emb> not twisting the flat, from the screw terminal to your drivers and switches
[01:30:22] <pzpz> ohh i see
[01:30:34] <kwallace1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_line
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[01:30:58] <Tom_itx> like cat 5/6 pairs are inside
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[01:33:04] <pzpz> i have roll of it..
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[01:33:19] <kwallace1> The twisting of signal and corresponding ground wire cancels noise. CAT5 uses twisted pairs and works well even without a shield.
[01:33:33] <pzpz> fire protected
[01:33:56] <pzpz> it is cat 5E
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[01:34:36] <kwallace1> Flat ribbon is great for terminating a lot of wires easily and should work okay for moderate runs.
[01:35:21] <pzpz> you split the ribbon?
[01:35:28] <Tom_itx> if you make a board, use a ribbon to board connector for it
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[01:39:28] <Tom_itx> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=69830-006LF
[01:39:33] <Tom_itx> only wider of course
[01:40:04] <Tom_itx> or split the cable off to multiple boards
[01:42:27] <ju-emb> huuh the new rtai kernel is ready, let's give it a try
[01:42:32] <ju-emb> bbl
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[01:44:36] <pzpz> http://imgur.com/luwWL1O
[01:44:45] <pzpz> it will be ok?
[01:45:08] <pzpz> kwallace1, Tom_itx ^
[01:46:05] <Tom_itx> do you need all 100 io?
[01:46:18] <Tom_itx> 96 or whatever it is
[01:46:58] <Tom_itx> i would make a board per ribbon personally
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[01:47:44] <Tom_itx> and make sure the wires / screw terminals are all accessable
[01:48:26] <pzpz> i can also short all the GND by the pcb and make 97 pins
[01:48:39] <pzpz> 96 i/o + 1 GND
[01:49:01] <Tom_itx> one gnd may or may not carry all the current for the io, that i couldn't say
[01:49:47] <micges> pzpz: what are trying to design?
[01:50:07] <Tom_itx> apparently some sort of breakout board for the ribbon cables
[01:50:44] <pzpz> i think thay short by the board..
[01:51:19] <micges> pzpz: for what will you use 5i22 board?
[01:51:32] <pzpz> micges, the pinout for the 5i22
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[01:51:46] <pzpz> my new cnc
[01:52:10] <pzpz> G0704 +5 axis + cool i/o
[01:52:38] <micges> do yo have it?
[01:53:05] <pzpz> no
[01:53:10] <pzpz> i want to but it
[01:53:12] <pzpz> http://pastebin.com/zMcBVz1B
[01:53:27] <pzpz> this is what i plan
[01:54:09] <micges> what servos do you want to use?
[01:54:24] <pzpz> i dont know.
[01:55:15] <pzpz> first i was think to use G320X with regular DC brashed motor
[01:55:41] <micges> you must know becouse from that you will know what type of daughter boards you need to connect to 5i22 to make it work
[01:55:43] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/panel/electricalbox.jpg
[01:55:59] <pzpz> now ju-emb say that with the masa card i can make something like DRO
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[01:56:37] <skunkworks> 2 5i20's
[01:58:19] <pzpz> what is the cards at the top?
[01:59:37] <pzpz> alot of wires.....
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[02:00:10] <micges> pzpz: 2x mesa 5i20
[02:00:25] <micges> lower you have mesa 7i33
[02:01:49] <pzpz> what machine?
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[02:04:34] <pzpz> so you have 144 i/o?
[02:04:50] <pzpz> wow that crazy
[02:07:42] <pzpz> i need to buy with the "Industrial Temperature Range Test"
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[02:09:09] <pzpz> micges, skunkworks ?
[02:12:38] <pzpz> the 5i22 is 369$ and the 5i20 is 199$
[02:13:42] <pzpz> what is better 2X5i20 or one 5i22?
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[02:27:44] <pzpz> ??
[02:28:00] <pzpz> micges, skunkworks, kwallace1 ?
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[02:30:41] <kwallace1> pzpz: This should be close to what you want: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI3nUjWTO5Q
[02:32:50] <kwallace1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyqx7c_-mrw&feature=plcp
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[02:45:10] <pzpz> amazing!
[02:45:44] <pzpz> so i stay with the 5i22
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[02:46:44] <kwallace1> I can't seem to find the details on that machine, just this http://www.deweygarrett.com/
[02:46:49] <pzpz> kwallace1, now for the 5 main servo motors, what i need?
[02:47:48] <pzpz> ok...
[02:47:58] <pzpz> lets move on
[02:48:02] <kwallace1> It depends on the amps
[02:48:45] <kwallace1> Dewey uses Pico's amps with Keling brushed motors
[02:48:46] <pzpz> i dont know what controlers / encoder / motors to chose
[02:49:11] <pzpz> Keling?
[02:49:26] <ju-emb> that's why I asked yesterday for the size of your machine
[02:49:29] <pzpz> it is a good brand?
[02:49:40] <pzpz> G0704
[02:49:54] <pzpz> http://www.grizzly.com/products/Drill-Mill-with-Stand/G0704
[02:49:55] <kwallace1> http://www.kelinginc.net/ServoMotor.html
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[02:50:48] <kwallace1> You will need ball screws for that machine.
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[02:51:57] <kwallace1> They need to be preloaded some how, preferably double nutted.
[02:52:13] <pzpz> i cant work with the lead screws?
[02:53:01] <pzpz> double nut with spring?
[02:53:05] <kwallace1> Not if you are serious about having a decent CNC.
[02:53:25] <ju-emb> it's a question what precision you need, and how long your precision stays that way
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[02:54:37] <ju-emb> normal lead screws have a lot of friction so you'll need stronger motors
[02:54:49] <pzpz> +- 0.1 mm..
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[02:55:51] <ju-emb> that's not so much
[02:55:59] <pzpz> i think to start with lead screws.. and see how it going..
[02:56:25] <kwallace1> With manual machines the machinist uses a technique to compensate for backlash and is a big part of becoming a machinist. CNC machines don't have a machinist's skill so can not tolerate any backlash.
[02:57:16] <kwallace1> When you take the backlash out of a lead screw the force to drive the screw gets too high.
[02:57:36] <pzpz> i know.
[02:58:26] <ju-emb> in general, ball screws are cheaper than stronger motors and drives
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[02:59:28] <kwallace1> So you really need to use preloaded ball screws as well as double angular contact end bearings.
[03:01:09] <kwallace1> Ball screws and bearings can cost as much as a used mill, so it is cheaper to find a used CNC instead of converting a manual machine.
[03:01:23] <pzpz> where i can get a ball screws for the G0704 in reasnabel price?
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[03:03:23] <pzpz> but i cant find a used cnc that 2 people can lift in stairs
[03:03:43] <pzpz> and will not make a hole in my floor.....
[03:04:11] <pzpz> 150kg is the limit that i can have..
[03:04:20] <kwallace1> Microkentics was one vendor I was considering http://www.microkinetics.com/conv_kits/
[03:05:10] <kwallace1> The screws are double nutted, reasonably accurate and have oiling ports.
[03:06:01] <pzpz> but 2000$
[03:06:23] <kwallace1> I bought some HiWin screws but they were not preloaded so didn't work.
[03:06:59] <kwallace1> Before that I bought some screws from England but they never showed up.
[03:07:00] <pzpz> what is "preloaded"
[03:08:44] <kwallace1> For a double nut screw each nut is shimmed or other wise adjusted to take out the backlash plus a little bit more.
[03:09:03] <pzpz> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/g0704-kit/g0704-cnc-update-machine-ballscrew-kit
[03:10:02] <kwallace1> For single nut screws, over sized balls can be used but they need to be replaced as the screw wears.
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[03:11:54] <pzpz> i dont need that acurate machine
[03:11:54] <pzpz> +-0.1 mm is fine for me
[03:11:54] <pzpz> now i make thing by hand...
[03:12:28] <kwallace1> It's the backlash that's the problem.
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[03:14:54] <pzpz> i see a guy in cnc zone that put a spring betweem 2 ball nut.
[03:15:11] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03ysli 05vfd-b-3 47f4fdc 06linuxcnc 10src/Makefile * Update Makefile for vfdb_vfd
[03:15:11] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03ysli 05vfd-b-3 b03906b 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/ 03Submakefile 03vfdb_vfd.c * Initial commit for DELTA VFD-B Spindle Driver
[03:15:13] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jofey 05vfd-b-3 6d4ce97 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * Update implementation for DELTA-VFD-B Inverter, vfdb_vfd.c
[03:15:20] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03ysli 05vfd-b-3 2371b66 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/Submakefile * vfdb_vfd: add '-m' linking parameter to Submakefile
[03:15:27] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jofey 05vfd-b-3 60592e5 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * Add RPS hal signal to vfdb_vfd.c
[03:15:33] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jofey 05vfd-b-3 e456422 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfdb_vfd.c: update VFD-B CMD register definition
[03:15:40] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jofey 05vfd-b-3 2fe1ea6 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfdb_vfd.c: can do FORWARD and REVERSE spindle rotation
[03:15:46] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 57d3613 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: finish rename from "vfs11" to "vfdb"
[03:15:53] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 6ebaa1b 06linuxcnc 03docs/man/man1/vfdb_vfd.1 * vfd-b: add a manpage
[03:15:59] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 9d7e5a7 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man1/vfdb_vfd.1 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: make motor frequency & speed into ini parameters
[03:16:06] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 1fe7588 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: report at-speed correctly
[03:16:12] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 909d185 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: fixup copyright
[03:16:18] <pzpz> ?????
[03:16:19] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 57b4662 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: whitespace cleanup
[03:16:25] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 16ed3d8 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove a redundant assignment
[03:16:31] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 bb67c54 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: comment out some nearly dead code...
[03:16:36] <pzpz> KGB-linuxcnc, stop!!!
[03:16:38] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 b6363c1 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 1/15
[03:16:44] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 b6deeb1 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 2/15
[03:16:50] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 f41fe80 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 3/15
[03:16:51] <pzpz> WTF?!
[03:16:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 3473d2e 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 4/15
[03:17:03] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 f3d019e 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 5/15
[03:17:09] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 7a2099a 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 6/15
[03:17:11] <kwallace1> We are on the developer channel so these messages are common.
[03:17:16] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 8db8ff0 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 7/15
[03:17:16] <cradek> pzpz: it's a feature. you might prefer the #linuxcnc channel if you're not interested in development
[03:17:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 b3602e1 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 8/15
[03:17:28] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 863c8df 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man1/vfdb_vfd.1 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 9/15
[03:17:34] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 13108c8 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man1/vfdb_vfd.1 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 10/15
[03:17:41] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 4c2bfd2 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man1/vfdb_vfd.1 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 11/15
[03:17:48] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 8704c6d 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man1/vfdb_vfd.1 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 12/15
[03:17:55] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 4ad89f3 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man1/vfdb_vfd.1 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 13/15
[03:18:01] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 de93e0a 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man1/vfdb_vfd.1 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 14/15
[03:18:08] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05vfd-b-3 59c4195 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man1/vfdb_vfd.1 10src/hal/user_comps/vfdb_vfd/vfdb_vfd.c * vfd-b: remove dead code 15/15
[03:18:15] <KGB-linuxcnc> pzpz: My master told me to not respond.
[03:18:37] <pzpz> KGB-linuxcnc, ok
[03:18:37] <KGB-linuxcnc> pzpz: My master told me to not respond.
[03:18:41] <pzpz> KGB-linuxcnc, ok
[03:18:41] <KGB-linuxcnc> pzpz: My master told me to not respond.
[03:18:57] <pzpz> but you respond..
[03:19:08] <kwallace1> LOL
[03:19:27] <kwallace1> KGB is a computer
[03:19:36] <pzpz> i know..
[03:19:47] <pzpz> i make it for the joke...
[03:20:16] <kwallace1> Indeed.
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[03:21:27] <pzpz> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/g0704-kit/g0704-cnc-update-machine-ballscrew-kit
[03:21:36] <pzpz> and i see a guy in cnc zone that put a spring betweem 2 ball nut.
[03:21:52] <pzpz> it will work for me?
[03:22:52] <kwallace1> You could try it, nothing to lose.
[03:23:22] <cradek> pzpz: to be more overt: you should take your questions and this conversation to #linuxcnc, because it is on topic there, and you'll have a larger and more varied group to discuss these things with.
[03:24:15] <pzpz> ok.. i move to linuxcnc
[03:24:27] <cradek> great, thanks
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[03:25:27] <pzpz> fine.. but nobody there..
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[03:33:13] <cradek> weird
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[03:34:10] <cradek> does anyone have (ntp correct) seconds timestamps that say when he quit?
[03:36:32] <micges> 04:32:32
[03:36:51] <micges> (checking time zone..)
[03:37:30] <cradek> thanks I know which minute it was :-)
[03:37:58] <micges> ah sorry didn't read carefully
[03:40:38] <cradek> I found an error message but have no clue what it means
[03:40:48] <cradek> and kgb's web site and vcs both seem gone
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[03:41:12] <cradek> yet another vc bot casualty
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[03:43:24] <cradek> [root@git /usr/local/src/kgb.trunk]# svn log
[03:43:24] <cradek> svn: E000061: Unable to connect to a repository at URL 'svn://anonscm.debian.org/kgb/kgb/trunk'
[03:43:27] <cradek> svn: E000061: Can't connect to host 'anonscm.debian.org': Connection refused
[03:43:30] <cradek> oh how I hate svn
[03:44:46] <cradek> ah there is evidence of a 1.31; I probably have 1.25
[03:44:50] <cradek> ls
[03:44:52] <cradek> oops
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[03:56:48] <cradek> perl dependencies everywhere
[03:56:58] <cradek> in addition to how I hate svn, I also hate everything
[03:58:15] <ju-emb> maybe it's time to grab a cup of coffee
[03:58:47] <cradek> ---> Installing 'p5-common-sense-3.6' from a port (devel/p5-common-sense)
[03:58:54] <cradek> oh come on this is ridiculous
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[04:02:31] <cradek> after trying many sites, it finally found common sense in .nz
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[05:24:01] <huosen> I'm looking for some information on hardware to be used with linuxcnc, any suggestions?
[05:26:27] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
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[07:16:02] <huosen> CaptHindsight: thanks, any complete solution for a CNC known to be working well ?
[07:16:21] <huosen> seems that the link you passed, is just parts of it
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[07:21:46] <ju-emb> that's the best of linuxcnc, you buy only the parts you need to make your machine run like you want
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[07:26:00] <huosen> interesting
[07:26:17] <huosen> so i can adapt whatever complete solution i find on the martket to make it work with linuxcnc?
[07:26:31] <huosen> with the resources on that link
[07:26:33] <huosen> right?
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[07:27:09] <ju-emb> what do you mean with complete solution
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[14:29:21] <ju-emb> I try to get a c skeleton out of the rand component example
[14:29:23] <ju-emb> I copied the .comp file
[14:29:25] <ju-emb> give the component another name
[14:29:27] <ju-emb> and run comp myfile.comp
[14:29:29] <ju-emb> cd $home/linuxcnc/src
[14:29:31] <ju-emb> make
[14:29:35] <ju-emb> interesting part of the output is:
[14:29:39] <ju-emb> halcomp-srcs/hal/components/jgTestComp.c: In function ‘main’:
[14:29:41] <ju-emb> halcomp-srcs/hal/components/jgTestComp.c:93:8: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘;’ token
[14:29:43] <ju-emb> halcomp-srcs/hal/components/jgTestComp.c:95:1: error: section attribute cannot be specified for local variables
[14:29:48] <ju-emb> related lines in the .c file are
[14:29:51] <ju-emb> if(rtapi_app_main() < 0) return 1;
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[14:29:53] <ju-emb> user_mainloop();
[14:29:55] <ju-emb> rtapi_app_exit();
[14:29:57] <ju-emb> return 0;
[14:30:02] <ju-emb> first line here is code line 93
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[16:50:33] <cradek> ooh, new kgb looks a lot smarter about git
[16:50:49] <cradek> concerning large updates and merges
[16:56:12] <seb_kuzminsky> less floody?
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[17:14:14] <cradek> I think so
[17:14:28] <cradek> I haven't managed to update it yet, though
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[18:10:08] <kwallace> mhaberler: Rumor has it you might have some insight on the MDI queue. I'm finding when I feed MDI in a python UI script, I need to throttle a long list of blocks, but I don't know a good way to do this. Also if a routine crashes, it seems on the next routine run the remainder of the crashed blocks run and/or the new blocks use old numbered parameters. If you have any hints or links I would appreciate any help.
[18:10:26] <mhaberler> hi!
[18:10:44] <kwallace> Hello.
[18:11:34] <mhaberler> I had. This patch was reworked extensively/done differently by Seb; I dont really know what the current status of this is
[18:12:21] <kwallace> So I should talk to Seb about what changed?
[18:12:23] <seb_kuzminsky> hi guys
[18:12:28] <mhaberler> hi Seb!
[18:13:44] <kwallace> I have two problems. If I feed a bunch of blocks to MDI in Python I get errors about the MDI overflowing or some such.
[18:14:08] <seb_kuzminsky> ok
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[18:14:56] <kwallace> Is there a good way to throttle the the feeding of the MDI queue, or should I need to?
[18:15:55] <kwallace> command.mode(linuxcnc.MODE_MDI)
[18:15:55] <kwallace> command.wait_complete() # wait until mode switch executed
[18:15:55] <kwallace> command.mdi('#100 = [#<_ini[AXIS_0]MAX_LIMIT> - #5221 - .001]')
[18:15:55] <kwallace> command.mdi('#101 = #5420')
[18:15:55] <kwallace> command.mdi('G38.3 X #100')
[18:15:55] <kwallace> command.mdi('G0 X #101')
[18:15:55] <kwallace> ...
[18:17:55] <seb_kuzminsky> you would write a wrapper around mdi() that does mdi() and then wait_complete(), maybe?
[18:19:10] <seb_kuzminsky> if you send too much mdi, at some point you *will* fill the buffer, no way around that
[18:19:26] <ju-emb> somebody any idea why the following code put into a .comp file doesn't compile on my machine?
[18:19:28] -!- md-2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[18:19:30] <ju-emb> component rand;
[18:19:32] <ju-emb> option userspace;
[18:19:36] <ju-emb> pin out float out;
[18:19:38] <ju-emb> license "GPL"; // indicates GPL v2 or later
[18:19:40] <ju-emb> ;;
[18:19:42] <archivist> pastebin
[18:19:42] <ju-emb> #include <unistd.h>
[18:19:46] <ju-emb> void user_mainloop(void) {
[18:19:48] <ju-emb> while(1) {
[18:19:50] <ju-emb> usleep(1000);
[18:19:52] <ju-emb> FOR_ALL_INSTS() out = drand48();
[18:19:54] <ju-emb> }
[18:19:57] <ju-emb> }
[18:20:02] <ju-emb> sorry
[18:20:24] <kwallace> seb_kuzminsky: I just stack the commands as you see above. I just have the one wait_complete because I copied it.
[18:20:40] <seb_kuzminsky> what's the error you get?
[18:21:24] <kwallace> kwallace or ju-emb?
[18:21:48] <seb_kuzminsky> heh, kwallace
[18:22:25] <seb_kuzminsky> is it just complaining about the mdi queue filling? if so i think it's working as it should
[18:23:08] <kwallace> Of course I don't have it handy, something about MDI full ... (10)
[18:23:38] <archivist> can one check buffer space before inserting
[18:24:19] <kwallace> So do a wait_complete after each command? I suppose it's easy to try.
[18:24:49] <seb_kuzminsky> kwallace: that should fix it
[18:24:55] <seb_kuzminsky> but archivist's suggestion is better
[18:25:30] <seb_kuzminsky> i don't know off the top of my head to ask the mdi queue if it's full, but if you figured out how to ask that you could do something like this:
[18:25:42] <ju-emb> http://pastebin.com/J8b41fNy
[18:25:46] <seb_kuzminsky> while mdi_queue_full():
[18:25:50] <seb_kuzminsky> sleep(0.01)
[18:26:00] <seb_kuzminsky> mdi("blah")
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[18:27:45] <archivist> looking for complete means no joined up moves and stops between segments methinks
[18:28:13] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, and i think that's ok and expected for mdi
[18:28:31] <kwallace> Okay I'll try, but sleeps seem to cause random long pauses so I have been trying to avoid them.
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[18:30:21] <kwallace> Thank you, seb_kuzminsky, archivist .
[18:34:43] <kwallace> By the way, replaced my offending script and got:
[18:34:47] <kwallace> LinuxCNC interp_state change was INTERP_READING is now INTERP_IDLE
[18:34:47] <kwallace> maximum number of queued MDI commands exceeded (10)
[18:34:54] <kwallace> ...
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[18:47:06] <mhaberler> there is a task.queued_mdi_commands value in the linuxcnc stat structure which should help; also a related INI parameter setting the maximum
[18:48:37] <kwallace> Yeah, I wasn't finding mdi_queue_full()
[18:49:24] <mhaberler> it should be status.task.queued_mdi_commands - good to send if less than limit
[18:50:06] <mhaberler> I forgot that on the NML dead body list: no queue backpressure mechanism or credit-based queues..
[18:53:57] <mhaberler> your credit of commands to send is ini [TASK]MDI_QUEUED_COMMANDS - stat.task.queued_mdi_commands (I think)
[19:05:46] <kwallace> Looking for [TASK]MDI_QUEUED_COMMANDS - stat.task.queued_mdi_commands with grep: http://wallacecompany.com/tmp/mdi-1.txt
[19:09:00] <kwallace> Also, print "--> mdi ", status.task.queued_mdi_commands
[19:09:01] <kwallace> AttributeError: 'linuxcnc.stat' object has no attribute 'task'
[19:09:40] <mhaberler> hm.. you are using master?
[19:10:29] <mhaberler> oh, just use status.queued_mdi_commands - sorry
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[19:15:29] <kwallace> mhaberler: I'll try status.queued_mdi_commands
[19:17:23] <kwallace> Yay, found it.
[19:18:48] <cradek> I thought you were going to write a file and run it with mdi O-call. that would work so easily.
[19:19:34] <mhaberler> or support multiline string MDI commands eventually
[19:20:26] <cradek> sure, but I mean something he can do right now that would instantly solve this problem he's been working on for weeks
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[19:20:46] <cradek> lots of people are using mdi O-call
[19:23:03] <cradek> oh it's master? then I don't know if it works 100%, but I know 2.5 does
[19:23:32] <kwallace> Ah, uh... I think I meant to. One issue is that I need to interact with DROs in the UI.
[19:23:57] <cradek> howso?
[19:24:03] <kwallace> I'm using mostly 2.6.~pre
[19:25:51] <kwallace> For instance, I probe a face in X + direction, then display the location and have a button to zero the workspace or use the value for a calculation.
[19:27:38] <cradek> setting a zero on the edge is a really common task and should be one step - I don't understand what other kind of calculation you'd want to do?
[19:28:20] <cradek> in the touchy macros I use, you can specify which system to zero on the edge (default is the current one). this is easy to do with O-call because it can take parameters.
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[19:32:44] <kwallace> I guess basically, I haven't worked out how to use the big O yet? If I were an inquiring student I suppose I should.
[19:34:29] <cradek> gcode quickref: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
[19:35:19] <skunkworks> how would you sample and hold a bit? could I use an OR with its output fed back to the one of the inputs? something easier?
[19:35:23] <cradek> call by filename: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#_calling_files
[19:36:08] <archivist> skunkworks, a latch
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[19:36:34] <cradek> skunkworks: if you're in ladder, you might use edge triggered logic?
[19:36:48] <skunkworks> I could use ladder.. but hal?
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[19:37:20] <skunkworks> flipflop maybe? there isn't a latch.. I thought maybe 'edge' but it doesn't seem to have a way to reset it easy
[19:37:43] <skunkworks> that I see anyway
[19:38:29] <archivist> a D flipflop is a latch
[19:38:52] <skunkworks> I see that. I think that will work
[19:38:53] <cradek> sample_hold doesn't do what you want?
[19:39:26] <skunkworks> that is for s32's
[19:39:29] <archivist> he said bit not analogue value
[19:39:33] <cradek> oh
[19:40:31] <archivist> one gets to http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/components.html#_logic_and_bitwise_components_a_id_sec_realtime_components_logic_a
[19:41:06] <archivist> and then one cannot click flipflop to see its pins
[19:42:47] <cradek> it's a mistake to hardcode a list of components into the docs. those are autogenerated at the bottom of http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/
[19:42:55] <cradek> you can click on flipflop.9 there
[19:43:14] <skunkworks> right - that is where I am
[19:43:49] <kwallace> ju-emb: Your comp seems to compile and install for me. Did you remember to use "sudo comp --install my.comp_name"?
[19:44:14] <cradek> you could maybe also use mux2 with its output tied back to one input?
[19:44:32] <cradek> then it would either follow your input, or stay put
[19:44:53] <cradek> argh that's not a bit again
[19:44:54] <cradek> sorry
[19:44:55] <cradek> ignore me
[19:45:00] <archivist> that is what a d type does
[19:45:45] <archivist> and now I see its pins it has set and reset so does whatever is needed
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[19:46:40] <archivist> I do not see why there is a mix of man style and html
[19:47:12] <archivist> as a user I expect html on the web :)
[19:47:30] <kwallace> By the way, what I'm playing with: http://wallacecompany.com/tmp/probing_screen-11.png
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[19:48:57] <cradek> archivist: oh don't go there
[19:49:29] <archivist> someone should as I think that is a cause of noobs annoyance
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[19:50:06] <cradek> the only thing I've learned about that is that nobody's opinions are universal
[19:50:37] <cradek> some people think docs should be printed (from pdfs), some expect them on their own computer, some expect them on the web
[19:50:55] <archivist> I realise that but mixed is best of neither
[19:50:58] <cradek> we've stirred them all together with moderate success
[19:51:53] <cradek> most of those component docs are auto-generated by the comp program from markup in the comp files (or you get basic docs even with no special markup)
[19:52:00] <archivist> I have printed a set out waaaay back, but they go out of date, I like some form of consistency
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[19:53:37] <cradek> kwallace: I don't understand how that screen is supposed to work by looking at it.
[19:54:11] <archivist> thinking of probing, I saw some camera driven stuff at a show yesterday, using focus and multiple grabs with height to get 3d models
[19:57:21] <kwallace> Press the small button to start the probe, say X+ starts moving in the + direction until it trips, then displays the X value. If you don't like the number you can clear it, if you want to use it as the current work space zero then press the origin button.
[19:57:54] <cradek> what does clearing it do?
[19:58:59] <kwallace> Nothing but clear the DRO. I find it reminds me not to use that number.
[19:59:31] <cradek> brb
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[20:31:54] <kwallace> mhaberler: Do I need the .ini entry: [TASK]MDI_QUEUED_COMMANDS = stat.task.queued_mdi_commands ?
[20:32:15] <mhaberler> no, that defaults to 10
[20:33:00] <kwallace> I'm getting zero even when I get the MDI errors.
[20:33:22] <kwallace> --> mdi 0
[20:33:22] <kwallace> maximum number of queued MDI commands exceeded (5)
[20:34:14] <mhaberler> well again, this is what I started with, I dont know what happened to it
[20:34:26] <kwallace> print "--> mdi ", status.queued_mdi_commands
[20:34:50] <kwallace> I'm using 2.6~pre
[20:35:16] <mhaberler> I mean I did not have the last hand on this code, I would have to read up what happened
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[20:37:51] <mhaberler> it seems Seb disabled this or didnt make use of this, so this might be dead code - you really should ask him, I'm just guessing
[20:37:58] <seb_kuzminsky> [TASK]MDI_QUEUED_COMMANDS is not used any more
[20:38:06] <kwallace> Oh and I had "[TASK]MDI_QUEUED_COMMANDS = 5" which seemed to produce (5) instead of (10)
[20:39:23] <kwallace> So checking for status.queued_mdi_commands in my loop does nothing?
[20:41:16] <seb_kuzminsky> i believe that's currently the case, sorry :-/
[20:43:18] <kwallace> No problem, sort of. So reseting my thinking... there is no way to check the number of queued MDI commands in order to pause the loading of more commands?
[20:46:06] <kwallace> If not, I guess I really do need to bone up on the O call, run from file business.
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[20:54:37] <seb_kuzminsky> kwallace: you could do the waiting trick we talked about earlier (after each mdi command), or you could do the o-word named subroutine call that cradek suggested
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[21:01:03] <kwallace> seb_kuzminsky: Okay, I'll try the wait_complete thing next.
[21:02:46] <kwallace> Cool, Suite Espanola on the radio.
[21:18:44] <seb_kuzminsky> kwallace: you're on master, right? look at tests/toolchanger/m61/test-ui.py, the LinuxcncControl class, the g() function
[21:18:54] <seb_kuzminsky> specifically it's handling of the 'wait' argument
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[21:21:59] <mhaberler> hm, can you actually queue more than one mdi command? I wouldnt see how to detect an impending queue overrun
[21:23:45] <kwallace> seb_kuzminsky: I am not sure if we are using master or how up to date it is. I'll check test-ui.py.
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[21:56:07] <cradek> jepler: since gremlin [?] all the View/Show... menu items are futzed
[21:56:32] <jepler> cradek: yeah that's been reported on the tracker
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[21:56:37] <jepler> I haven't looked into it yet
[21:56:41] <cradek> oh ok
[21:56:45] <cradek> I haven't either, obviously
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[21:59:13] <cradek> 2.5 is right
[21:59:15] <cradek> fwiw
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[23:54:44] <kwallace> I haven't done a lot of testing but my MDI overfill problem doesn't seem to happen on the real mill configuration, but only on the sim.