Back
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[00:10:42] <KimK_3> memleak: Sorry, I was called away for a bit. OK, I'm looking at line 179, etc. And /boot/grub2/grub.cfg will get overwritten if I do "sudo update-grub" (or whatever it is), right? (I think ubuntu links "update-grub" to the longer command you suggested earlier) So no matter how badly I screw up, I should be able to restore things with "update-grub"? Yes, I think there may be a missing file? See:
http://imagebin.org/267621
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[00:14:00] <memleak> you'll be able to restore it yes
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[00:14:26] <memleak> depending on how seb packaged the .deb it might not have a .img file in it
[00:14:36] <memleak> so the kernel might not even expect a .img file
[00:14:42] <memleak> not sure...
[00:14:55] <andypugh> I think I will give up and get back to the tooltable work.
[00:14:57] <andypugh> make: *** No rule to make target `hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c', needed by `objects/rthal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.o'. Stop.
[00:15:16] <memleak> going afk for awhile
[00:15:21] <KimK_3> It looks like ...51-generic... and ...55-rtai... come in pairs, usually, except for the image, and an "api"(?)
[00:15:33] <andypugh> Goodnight chaps
[00:15:36] <KimK_3> OK, thanks for the help, goodnight
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[00:16:20] <KimK_3> Sorry, make that "abi"
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[00:28:35] <KimK_3> I'll be back later too.
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[00:52:38] <memleak> KimK_3, if you're worried about that .img initrd / init ramfs / initial ram filesystem you can decompress the .deb with ar
[00:53:05] <memleak> ar xv *55*.deb for example
[00:53:25] <memleak> if the .img file isnt in data.tar.bz2 then seb didnt make the kernel depend on one, which is fine.
[00:53:30] <memleak> i personally never use initrds
[00:54:00] <memleak> i compile the kernel and have _it_ figure out what my machine needs.
[00:56:10] <memleak> if you want, you can use dracut or whatever ubuntu uses to generate the .img file though.
[00:58:50] <memleak> looks like ubuntu uses mkinitramfs:
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man8/mkinitramfs.8.html
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[00:59:42] <memleak> for precise / 12.04:
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man8/mkinitramfs.8.html
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[01:04:45] <KimK> memleak: OK, thanks. I'm hoping that I won't have to mess with it too much, and that if the missing tidbit(?) can be discovered, RTAI will just appear in the boot menu automatically. Grub2 does a good job, generally, I'm not sure why it's confused this time around. And I'm not a kernel/booting/grub2 expert, are there any general kernel tutorials you might suggest? And RTAI too, in case I have time for one more tutorial?
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[01:17:54] <KimK> I'll be back (on unit 1) as KimK_2 in a few minutes. I had a laptop that was _1, but I think I'll rename the laptop now, unit 1 = _2 and unit 2 = _3 is too confusing.
[01:18:06] <memleak> I learned all about kernel compiling from this:
https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/tree/README?id=refs/tags/v3.10.7
[01:18:31] <memleak> as for RTAI the README.INSTALL file should cover everything on github.
[01:19:19] <memleak> grub2 help:
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter08/grub.html
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[01:20:35] <memleak> my rule of advice, never follow distro-specific documentation and always use the upstream documentation by the original developers whenever possible.
[01:21:44] <mozmck> memleak: unless you are building a packaged kernel for a distribution - especially a generic one to run on as many machines as possible.
[01:22:43] <mozmck> Here's a site I got some good information from when making the kernel packages for ubuntu 10.04.
http://blog.avirtualhome.com/category/ubuntu/compile-kernel-ubuntu/
[01:23:21] <memleak> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
[01:24:15] <memleak> KimK already has a kernel though, pre-packaged, the rest is just modifying grub to actually read it. why it won't do it automatically, i have no idea.
[01:24:17] <mozmck> That page is better now than it was, but it was way behind/inaccurate. It now actually has links to the site I just sent
[01:24:41] <mozmck> ah. I don't know.
[01:25:50] <memleak> I remember back when i was an ubuntu developer working on kernels how great everything was until they kicked me out of the dev team because i exposed too many of their secrets with compiling kernels...
[01:26:53] <memleak> ever since i stopped following distro-specific documentation and you can make large generic kernels without the help of any ubuntu / debian documentation.
[01:28:06] <mozmck> kicked you out for exposing secrets?!? They should have given you an award!
[01:28:19] <memleak> if you want a .deb kernel just read man make-kpkg, no need for misleading wiki pages.
[01:28:35] <memleak> that's canonical for you..
[01:28:39] <mozmck> I used make-kpkg quite a bit before.
[01:28:46] <memleak> yeah it actually works!
[01:29:30] <mozmck> I was trying to build the 10.04 packages and had a hard time finding info. I asked on IRC channels and looked around and finally found and pieced together enough information to get them built.
[01:29:52] <mozmck> I remember having to dig through quite a bit of stuff to get it figured out.
[01:30:13] <memleak> that's all done intentionally :)
[01:30:18] <memleak> don't worry!
[01:30:21] <mozmck> bleh!
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[01:31:14] <mozmck> I like debian. I first installed it from 6 floppies, and kept that computer running on debian unstable for about 12 years I think just doing incremental upgrades.
[01:32:12] <mozmck> Switched to ubuntu for my main computer though a while back because I wanted something a little more stable than debian unstable had been at times.
[01:39:11] <memleak> debian unstable has never actually been... unstable for me..
[01:39:23] <memleak> i feel like it's false advertising...
[01:39:42] <memleak> placebo effect of it being unstable perhaps?
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[01:44:19] <mozmck> Well, it was a number of times for me - but only maybe a dozen or so times over 10 or 12 years.
[01:45:04] <mozmck> Various programs would quit working after an update, and several times X wouldn't start.
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[01:48:05] <memleak> X not starting is a common issue for many even today, regardless of distro.
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[03:15:43] <memleak> ah finally linuxcnc compiles with RTAI 64-bit:
http://pastebin.com/TEZwMLYz
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[03:16:44] <memleak> rtai_math loading problems now.. ugh
[03:17:20] <memleak> Unknown symbol sincos (err 0)
[03:19:18] <memleak> i should probably get RTAI working with -ffast-math too.. maybe that'll fix it.
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[05:52:57] <memleak> gabewillen, you won't believe it...
[05:53:14] <memleak> I GOT RTAI 3.X KERNELS WORKING IN 64-BIT!
[05:53:17] <memleak> w/ LINUXCNC
[05:53:44] <memleak> victorious!!!!!!!!
[05:55:48] <memleak> demo sim and latency-test work, it
[05:55:56] <memleak> s a bit worse than 32-bit but still starts.
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[14:59:22] <pcw_home> Yay memleak!
[14:59:23] <pcw_home> (though I'll bet this exposes a lot of bugs in drivers/hal if actually used)
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[15:43:03] <andypugh> W: Failed to fetch http:/deb.machinekit.net/precise/dists/precise/Release.gpg Unable to connect to :http:
[15:43:29] <andypugh> which seems odd, as www.machinekit.net is up.
[15:43:55] <andypugh> zultron: ?
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[16:28:58] <andypugh> My fault! I had a
http:/// in the sources.list
[16:32:57] <mhaberler> andy: if you're going for an ubc build, use this:
https://github.com/mhaberler/linuxcnc/commits/unified-build-candidate-2
[16:33:02] <mhaberler> note -2
[16:33:21] <mhaberler> master should merge without issues into this branch
[16:37:53] <andypugh> I am trying to buid the 7i80 driver. That is a patch on rtos-master-v0
[16:38:29] <andypugh> I might see if I can force it into patching ubc
[16:40:59] <mhaberler> where was that patch again?
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[16:53:30] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mesa7i80_Driver_For_Linuxcnc_On_Xenomai
[16:54:07] <andypugh> I am not entirely sure why it is stil a loose patch rather than something pushed (if broken)
[16:58:25] <skunkworks> I know there needs to be some though at how it initalizes the rtnet. as of right now - when you start linuxcnc with 7i80 - you have to give the sudo password
[17:00:17] <skunkworks> thought
[17:00:41] <andypugh> That sounds like a missing entry in the sudo make setuid script
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[17:01:29] <skunkworks> there was some talk about that not too long ago... I seem to remember it not being that easy
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[17:02:35] <mhaberler> do you want the 7i80 rtnet driver in ubc? if so, I'll look into it (just driver build)
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[17:02:58] <andypugh> micges is the guy to ask, he wrote the driver.
[17:03:18] <mhaberler> I know, but you tried ;)
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[17:04:46] <andypugh> I seem to have an unmet dependency on "linux-image-3.5.7-xenomai-2.6.2.1" which I am sure I fixed previously with an "Ah, silly me, missed a step" fix
[17:05:45] <andypugh> No, sorry, wrong paste contents
[17:06:02] <andypugh> the missing thing is linux-modules-3.5.7-.....
[17:08:53] <andypugh> No, silly me, what I lack is rtai-modules-2.6.32-122-rtai
[17:09:18] <andypugh> And it is installing now
[17:25:58] <andypugh> memleak: The RTNet menuconfig allows one to build for RTAI / Xenomai 2.0 XOR Xenomai 2.1+
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[18:17:48] <psha> mhaberler: around?
[18:17:54] <mhaberler> yes
[18:18:13] <mhaberler> whazzup?
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[18:26:12] <mhaberler> samovar explosion?
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[18:38:44] <psha> mhaberler: hm, not today :)
[18:38:54] <mhaberler> ah
[18:38:58] <psha> take a look on cython
[18:39:01] <psha> looks very nice for me
[18:39:21] <psha> and gives extensions with very limited library deps
[18:39:25] <mhaberler> there are several ways to do this, cffi for instances
[18:39:36] <psha> $ ldd pyring.so linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007fffe8dfe000) libring.so => not found libpthread.so.0 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0 (0x00007ff108327000) libc.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007ff107f79000) /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007ff108770000)
[18:39:44] <psha> oops
[18:39:48] <psha> $ ldd pyring.so linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007fffe8dfe000) libring.so => not found libpthread.so.0 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0 (0x00007ff108327000) libc.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007ff107f79000) /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007ff108770000)
[18:39:52] <psha> again )
[18:39:54] <mhaberler> yeah I've played a bit with cython
[18:40:52] <mhaberler> for getting a C API's it's fine; for C++ code boost::python is a lot easier
[18:40:59] <psha> cffi is worse - i see only swig/boost and cython
[18:41:09] <psha> as real alternatives
[18:41:15] <psha> but - that's not for today )
[18:41:16] <psha> bad time
[18:41:17] <psha> bed
[18:41:19] <psha> !!
[18:41:21] <mhaberler> ha!
[18:41:22] <psha> good time
[18:41:23] <psha> for bed :)
[18:41:32] <psha> bb
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[18:41:36] <mhaberler> cu
[19:02:37] <CaptHindsight> anyone know about there being and fast-math issues or problems with 64bit?
[19:07:36] <mozmck> did you see Michael Busch's email to the dev list?
[19:08:50] <mozmck> I don't know anything myself.
[19:08:51] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: yes, the one without much detail
[19:09:03] <mozmck> yes, that one :)
[19:09:08] <CaptHindsight> why I thought I'd start asking
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[20:00:36] <andypugh> Does this mean anything to anybody?:
[20:00:37] <andypugh> compilation terminated.
[20:00:48] <andypugh> Let me try again: /home/andypugh/linuxcnc-dev/src/objects/xenomai-kernel/3.5.7-xenomai-2.6.2.1/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c:2:24: fatal error: sys/socket.h: No such file or directory
[20:00:48] <andypugh> compilation terminated.
[20:07:04] <memleak> -ffast-math causes problems in RTAI but I don't think it's because it depends on IEEE or ISO rules, I haven't looked into it all that much, code is incredibly sloppy..
[20:07:42] <skunkworks> I have not had that error in my testing
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[20:08:33] <memleak> https://github.com/ShabbyX/RTAI/blob/master/base/math/s_scalbn.c
[20:08:56] * memleak has trouble reading that...
[20:12:21] <memleak> scalbn gets redefined apparently with -ffast-math and causes a compilation error (obviously you can't define something twice)
[20:14:42] <memleak> unless it's magic of course...
https://github.com/ShabbyX/RTAI/blob/master/base/arch/x86/hal/hal_x86.c#L1258 (line 1258)
[20:15:08] <memleak> quite a few devs have looked at that and wonder what in the world is going on..
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[20:17:42] <memleak> note that scalbn comes from mathP.h but simply removing the header doesn't fix it either, and removing the definitions for scalbn that are supposedly being redefined causes GCC to tell me to put a ( before the { but that still doesn't fix anything.
[20:18:46] <pcw_home> well 1257 is dead code other than wasting a ns or so
[20:19:30] <memleak> how did you figure that out???
[20:20:15] <pcw_home> well if the variable is hardware, all bets are off
[20:21:10] <memleak> btw after reviewing mathP.h i don't see any definitions for scalbn. I wonder if -ffast-math just confuses GCC because the code is so messy that it can't read it?.. >_>
[20:21:57] <pcw_home> its awfully clever...
[20:22:36] <memleak> i honestly can't find a better conclusion..
[20:22:41] <andypugh> pcw_home: apic_read might be a function with side effects, but even in that case the multiplication by Hz is definitely dead code.
[20:24:01] <pcw_home> its just a long
[20:25:28] <pcw_home> I wonder if tricks like scalbin use are even appropriate now
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[20:45:18] <memleak> pcw_home, you think RTAI could do without scalbn?
[20:45:24] <memleak> just removing it?
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[20:46:54] <pcw_home> I have no idea what RTAI needs but I would leave optimizations to the compiler
[20:47:27] <memleak> linuxcnc doesn't compile on 64-bit without -ffast-math i know that part
[20:47:32] <memleak> at least not with RTAI
[20:48:57] <pcw_home> I dont really know enough to comment but including that kind of code seems like a mistake to me
[20:50:03] <andypugh> So what _does_ line 1257 achieve then?
[20:50:36] <pcw_home> maybe someone was afraid to remove it (high magic)
[20:51:16] <memleak> i have no problem removing it, will do :)
[20:53:10] <memleak> heh i just got an email from paolo saying he was boggled on how i unified the 32/64-bit code
[20:54:08] <memleak> i figured he'd be making way more progress than i considering he knows the code better..
[20:57:46] <pcw_home> what does linuxcnc need from -ffast-math ?
[20:59:46] <memleak> apparently sincos which i know makes no sense.
[21:00:10] <memleak> it just works.. so much magic going on here i feel like a black mage
[21:01:22] <pcw_home> I've heard of the sincos thing before
[21:02:20] <memleak> most likely from me, i've been complaining a lot about it
[21:02:47] <pcw_home> where in the linuxcnc source is it used?
[21:03:04] <memleak> 5kinematics and several other drivers
[21:03:18] <memleak> git grep sincos look in hal/drivers i think...
[21:04:37] <memleak> i also had to hard-code -msse as opposed to making it a conditional for x86_64
[21:06:09] <pcw_home> is this used because there's some real time issue with math.h?
[21:06:21] <memleak> completely unrelated
[21:06:59] <pcw_home> but sincos is a normal math.h function
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[21:07:18] <memleak> without those flags I get SSE return value without register.. something like that
[21:07:34] <memleak> SSE register return with SSE disabled
[21:07:39] <memleak> i was close..
[21:07:39] <pcw_home> yuck
[21:08:41] <memleak> yep and i'm not sure how stable it is to use -ffast-math
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[21:13:57] <andypugh> I am puzzled as to why we seem to have multiple copies of the source tree now.
[21:14:08] <pcw_home> someone left some ifdef/ifndef sse's out
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[21:15:50] <andypugh> It seems deliberate.
[21:16:06] <andypugh> Part of the "unified build" I suspect
[21:17:35] <pcw_home> Ha!
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[21:20:26] <memleak> i'm on master branch.. should have mentioned that
[21:24:18] <andypugh> Doh! make[1]: *** No rule to make target `hm2_eth.0', needed by `modules'. Stop.
[21:24:32] <andypugh> It has taken me hours to spot that.
[21:25:19] <mozmck> heh! I've done that kind of thing plenty at times.
[21:27:13] <pcw_home> andypugh: (should you ever get it working) I find the 7I80 is really handy for testing since it can be anywhere
[21:28:12] <andypugh> it works through routers?
[21:30:30] <pcw_home> sure
[21:32:52] <pcw_home> I used to have one at fpga.mesanet.com but I changed the IPaddress to the default private one when I was testing the Fanuc stuff
[21:34:17] <andypugh> I guess that realtime performance suffers in that scenario? :-)
[21:34:27] <pcw_home> a bit...
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[21:37:15] <pcw_home> also someone could download a bit file with 5000 ring oscillators and burn mesa down...
[21:39:09] <andypugh> And the insurance co would never believe that it wasn't you
[21:39:29] <pcw_home> Thats probably true :-)
[21:39:34] <andypugh> You can really do HCF with an FPGA?
[21:39:57] <pcw_home> Absolutely
[21:40:28] <mozmck> what is HCF?
[21:40:50] <pcw_home> Halt and Catch Fire
[21:41:12] <mozmck> haven't heard of that! halt what?
[21:41:48] <pcw_home> I think it was a 6800? undocumented instruction
[21:42:25] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire
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[21:44:31] <andypugh> I think that "lp0 on fire" is still in the Linux kernel.
[21:45:07] <pcw_home> 1000s of ring oscillators or bogus bitfiles that short out 1000's of internal nodes are known ways of doing it with FPGAs
[21:46:15] <mozmck> interesting.
[21:46:32] <pcw_home> I think the original IBM monochrome monitor could be killed by setting a bad horizontal refresh rate in the CRTC
[21:46:56] <andypugh> I read somewhere of someone creating a genetic algorthithm for FPGA code, and got a really interesting and effective solution. But it had an area of unconnected nodes. But when he removed that section, it stopped working...
[21:48:35] <andypugh> pcw_home: Are you thinking of the Commodoer PET "killer poke" ?
[21:50:01] <pcw_home> This was for IBM but there could certainly be similar things for monitors that used horizontal drive
[21:50:18] <pcw_home> (vs horizontal sync)
[21:51:01] <pcw_home> since with horizontal drive you have pretty direct control of the horizontal output transistor
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[22:07:27] <pcw_home> I noticed that RTNet was first developed on RTAI
[22:08:08] <andypugh> RTAI is an option in the build config. I am not sure why micges decided on Xenomai-only.
[22:08:10] <skunkworks> I remember being told to be careful with all monitors as far as setting the refresh rate...
[22:08:48] <skunkworks> I wonder if it was a hold over fromt he ibm monochrome
[22:09:02] <skunkworks> andypugh: thanks for playing with the 7i80
[22:09:18] <andypugh> skunkworks: Have you made it work?
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[22:09:45] <andypugh> I am struggling with the #includes
[22:10:00] <skunkworks> I have been able to flip a gpio on 10.04 32bit..
[22:10:10] <andypugh> Hmm
[22:10:47] <skunkworks> On 12.04 - I get a missing symbol when I try to load the hm ethernet module
[22:10:58] <andypugh> Which flavour of LinuxCNC?
[22:11:17] <andypugh> I can't even get linuxcnc to compile
[22:12:03] <skunkworks> I just followed these directions - (added some comments)
[22:12:06] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mesa7i80_Driver_For_Linuxcnc_On_Xenomai
[22:15:43] <andypugh> Which flavour of LinuxCNC?
[22:17:28] <andypugh> I suspect that I have exceeded my competence in trying to integrate it with the unified-build-candidate-2 branch.
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[22:22:07] <skunkworks> $ git clone git://git.linuxcnc.org/git/linuxcnc.git linuxcnc-rtnet
[22:22:08] <skunkworks> $ cd linuxcnc-rtnet
[22:22:10] <skunkworks> switch to linuxcnc under xenomai development branch
[22:22:11] <skunkworks> $ git branch --track rtos-master-v0 origin/rtos-master-v0
[22:22:13] <skunkworks> $ git checkout rtos-master-v0
[22:23:53] <andypugh> I am not using rtos-master as I don't know where that is heading.
[22:24:17] <andypugh> Though that shouldn't be the problem, as my issue is with #include resolution.
[22:24:44] <skunkworks> I don't remember having any of those low level issues
[22:24:48] <andypugh> hm2_eth.c:174:5: error: implicit declaration of function ‘inet_aton’
[22:25:12] <skunkworks> did you get rtnet to install?
[22:25:22] <andypugh> Yes, no trouble there at all
[22:25:38] <skunkworks> did you try rtpinging the card?
[22:25:54] <andypugh> The problem is with #include <sys/socket.h>
[22:25:54] <andypugh> #include <netinet/in.h>
[22:25:55] <skunkworks> (loading all the rtmodules)
[22:25:55] <andypugh> #include <arpa/inet.h>
[22:26:10] <skunkworks> (that is above my pay grade)
[22:26:43] <andypugh> None of those exist in the Xenomai headers. They all have a </inux...> version, but the contents appear to differ.
[22:27:06] <skunkworks> what kernel - I have only used xenomi..
[22:27:12] <andypugh> The solution _might_ be symlinks to the places that do exist
[22:27:44] <andypugh> 3.5.7-xenomai-2.6.2.1
[22:28:13] <skunkworks> I could not get rtnet to build without the build symlink in the xenomai directory
[22:28:18] <skunkworks> As of 07/01/2013 to build rtnet the kernel headers need to be installed
[22:28:19] <skunkworks> $ sudo apt-get install linux-headers-3.5.7-xenomai-2.6.2.1
[22:28:21] <skunkworks> and a symlink pointing to them in a 'build' directory
[22:28:22] <skunkworks> $ sudo ln -s /usr/src/linux-headers-3.5.7-xenomai-2.6.2.1/ /lib/modules/3.5.7-xenomai-2.6.2.1/build
[22:28:33] <andypugh> Yes, I have all that
[22:28:36] <skunkworks> ok
[22:28:51] <skunkworks> (sorry if I am capt-obvious)
[22:29:09] <andypugh> This is a problem with LinuxCNC not being able to find (for example) <sys/sicket.h>
[22:29:26] <andypugh> Or, for that matter <sys/socket.h>
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[22:37:41] <andypugh> Then the problem is <arpa/inet.h>. There is a /usr/include/arpa/inet.h and an absolute path to that gets a bit further, bit then that file #includes "features.h" and that isnt
[22:37:45] <andypugh> found either.
[22:38:01] <andypugh> I have no idea what the process is for untangling this sort of mess.
[22:39:02] <andypugh> memleak: Do you understand this sort of thing?
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[22:46:26] <andypugh> It isn't that the files don't exist even, I have several off all of them:
http://pastebin.com/uhB81DA1
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