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[19:36:54] <seb_kuzminsky> jthornton: i'm sympathetic to getting rid of our half-baked translations, but i'm not sure what you're proposing exactly
[19:44:10] <seb_kuzminsky> i don't love the po system we use for translating strings in the software, but i like it much better than our "copy and ignore (except for french)" method of translating the docs
[19:44:35] <seb_kuzminsky> i've been meaning to look more at po4a (
http://po4a.alioth.debian.org/) but i haven't started playing with it yet
[19:51:03] <cradek> no solution to this problem doesn't suck :-/
[19:52:45] <mhaberler> jepler: still around?
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[19:58:09] <mhaberler> delaying to rtapi_init() unfortunately does not solve the problem
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[19:59:18] <mhaberler> the issue is: your sim api rests on the assumption rtapi_shm*() and friends work in isolation, and it doesnt matter who inits the HAL data segment (ulapi or rt environment)
[20:00:30] <jepler> that is OK to give up, because the rtai implementation never acted that way
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[20:01:25] <mhaberler> I am talking your e30812ef6
[20:01:58] <mhaberler> oh I see - you get the error only if you do hal_init()
[20:02:24] <mhaberler> you do not assume it will work the way sim does in v2.5 onwards (without realtime) which isnt the same thing
[20:02:53] <mhaberler> well that certainly can be done, the dummy rtapi_switch idea works as conceived
[20:03:29] <jepler> since I don't have the code in front of me nor the test results I can only take your word for it
[20:04:29] <mhaberler> ok, lets narrow this down: what this means is: you can link any program and run it without realtime start; as soon as you do a hal_init() (actually an rtapi_init()) you get an error return -ENOSYS
[20:05:01] <mhaberler> that should take care of the runtests issue for rs274
[20:05:16] <jepler> isn't that approximately what happens (modulo the specific -errno) in rtai in v2.5_branch? if so that seems like what I am asking for
[20:05:39] <mhaberler> pretty much so, I just tried that to be bug compatible
[20:05:50] <mhaberler> it does a segfault though which I wont emulate ;)
[20:05:51] <jepler> It is not a bug that it worked that way
[20:06:06] <mhaberler> sure not, that was a joke
[20:06:24] <jepler> you might also make sure that python -c 'import hal' also works
[20:06:30] <mhaberler> sure will
[20:06:45] <jepler> heck it's dumb but we could codify it in a test
[20:07:10] <mhaberler> it really means component creation doesnt work without realtime start, which is what your change was about
[20:07:29] <mhaberler> (on the ulapi side that is)
[20:07:50] <jepler> that's not the intent of e30812ef at all
[20:08:03] <mhaberler> sure we can; actually what we will get for free - since I will wrap ulapi into a .so - is a standalone rtapi library
[20:08:33] <mhaberler> well but if you trace it - say build sim, dont run realtime, start halcmd - you see it wont fail
[20:09:13] <jepler> that is not true, but since rtai never worked that way it's not the part of the behavior that must be preserved.
[20:09:39] <jepler> errr that is true
[20:09:44] <mhaberler> see
[20:09:53] <mhaberler> that was the one I was talking about
[20:10:23] <mhaberler> well at least we're on the same page now
[20:10:27] <jepler> I sure hope so
[20:10:40] <jepler> it would help if I didn't type the opposite from what I intended
[20:11:05] <mhaberler> that is optional since only dumb folk never adjust positions
[20:13:15] <mhaberler> so this is what I can do, and I think it covers the common page: you can link and run any hal/ulapi client (including python) fine regardless of realtime stopped or not; if realtime not running then hal_init() (or rather the underlying rtapi_init()) will fail and return an appropriate error code
[20:13:36] <mhaberler> acuerdo?
[20:14:25] <jepler> ok
[20:14:40] <mhaberler> great, then we have a go
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[20:43:36] <mhaberler> confirmed to work as planned - rs274 works fine without realtime start; halcmd will fail with 'realtime not started' because it creates a halcomp right away
[20:44:38] <mhaberler> python 'import hal' fine; fails at h = hal.component("foo")
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[21:11:04] <seb_kuzminsky> the email from Frederic Rible makes me happy
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[21:53:35] <cradek> yep that's just great
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