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[03:11:30] <seb_kuzminsky> linuxcnc-build: force build --branch=rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master checkin
[03:11:31] <linuxcnc-build> build #922 forced
[03:11:31] <linuxcnc-build> I'll give a shout when the build finishes
[03:14:38] <linuxcnc-build> build #8 of precise-amd64-rtpreempt-rip is complete: Failure [4failed install-missing-build-dependencies] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/precise-amd64-rtpreempt-rip/builds/8
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[03:57:04] <linuxcnc-build> build #8 of precise-amd64-xenomai-rip is complete: Failure [4failed compile_1] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/precise-amd64-xenomai-rip/builds/8
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[04:14:26] <linuxcnc-build> build #922 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/922
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[04:47:50] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master 6b04f1f 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: cleanup merge of master
[04:47:50] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master b5d70aa 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: flatten a nested if for legibility
[04:47:54] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master d9742c8 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: comment the inspect_kernel function
[04:48:01] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master 45e4cab 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: re-enable "-a"
[04:48:07] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master d0f8df3 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: most settings are per kernel-type, not per kernel
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[05:01:43] <seb_kuzminsky> hi mhaberler
[05:01:53] <mhaberler> good morning!
[05:02:00] <seb_kuzminsky> i just pushed some deb fixes to rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master
[05:02:01] <mhaberler> (well at least here)
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[05:02:08] <seb_kuzminsky> nearing midnight here
[05:02:29] <mhaberler> to the branch on linuxcnc.org I assume? then I'll pull, thanks
[05:02:55] <mhaberler> for now I try to do all this in rtos3 and roll forward into rtos3-* but I'll take care of it
[05:03:08] <seb_kuzminsky> i see
[05:03:12] <mhaberler> is the make setuid issue resolved?
[05:03:18] <seb_kuzminsky> should be
[05:03:43] <seb_kuzminsky> i fucked up /etc/sudoers
[05:03:43] <mhaberler> I will keep rtos3 around until messaging is ready no matter what, in case anybody runs into memory footprint issues on embedded systems
[05:03:50] <mhaberler> yeah, harmless
[05:04:35] <mhaberler> this takes care of the sequencing issue; it does not take care of the dual major change issue with merging rtoss3-m and eventually dynload
[05:04:37] <seb_kuzminsky> the biggest memory-size different is probably milltask, which has an extra python interpreter in master?
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[05:05:08] <seb_kuzminsky> what do you mean by "the sequencing issue"?
[05:05:13] <mhaberler> yes, the embedded interp ; this is mostly just an idle shlib but once you do remapping or other creative stuff it might inflate
[05:06:22] <mhaberler> sequencing: if we merge rtos3-m into master and drop rtos3 then there is a window until messaging is ready and the one-cpu limitation is remove where folks on embedded might be bitten by the memory footprint issue
[05:06:51] <seb_kuzminsky> is it true that if there is no [RS274NGC]REMAP statement in the ini file, then the python interpreter will not be used?
[05:06:54] <mhaberler> I expect this to be 6-9 months max but nevertheless - there is embedded usage out there all ready
[05:07:40] <mhaberler> it will be linked; it will be inited but there are no calls to it in the normal flow of control (I need to look again but I am pretty sure it is like I said)
[05:08:23] <seb_kuzminsky> and the python interpreter is the only significant memory increase in master?
[05:08:38] <mhaberler> there are some syntactic constructs which require it to be present even if not uses, for instance the ';py,<python code>' pseudo comment
[05:08:42] <seb_kuzminsky> so maybe make loading of it dependent on the ini file using it? best of both worlds?
[05:08:59] <seb_kuzminsky> wow, that's strange
[05:09:02] <mhaberler> no it is not, there is signficant usage of STL
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[05:09:26] <seb_kuzminsky> STL, the 3d file format?
[05:09:35] <mhaberler> I think it's largely a red herring but I want to play it safe
[05:09:43] <mhaberler> no c++ standard containers
[05:09:54] <mhaberler> std::map for instance
[05:10:26] <seb_kuzminsky> i don't understand what you're saying now
[05:10:42] <mhaberler> well look at for instance named variables
[05:11:21] <mhaberler> that used to have symbol table management at the lowest conceivable C layer with per-char processing, sequential search and all
[05:11:41] <mhaberler> remapping brought in the need for dict-type lookups
[05:11:55] <mhaberler> which is when I started using std::map
[05:12:34] <mhaberler> at some point in time it became silly to have 2 mechanisms for the same thing so I replaced the builtin pedestrian dict with std::map
[05:13:20] <mhaberler> I dont think it is in any way significant, however memory usage is not fixed at the size of struct _setup anymore as it used to be
[05:13:34] <seb_kuzminsky> ok
[05:14:20] <mhaberler> that was a tradeoff, _setup was close to 200k before and its now < 90 I think
[05:14:28] <mhaberler> due to trading off static arrays against std::map
[05:15:30] <mhaberler> so it goes either way really, I'd have to do actually measurements - it could very well be that with programs not using named vars the memory footprint of the master interp is _less_ than the one in v2.5
[05:16:08] <seb_kuzminsky> i like measurements ;-)
[05:16:34] <mhaberler> printf ("%d\n", sizeof(struct _setup)); ;)
[05:17:26] <seb_kuzminsky> where can i read about these new python comments?
[05:18:21] <mhaberler> in the remap manual, hold on:
[05:18:58] <seb_kuzminsky> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/remap/structure.html#_executing_python_statements_from_the_interpreter_a_id_remap_executing_python_statements_a
[05:19:05] <mhaberler> (let me note it makes no sense to disable the embeded interp as a build option - I already was there an it creates a rash of followup problems)
[05:19:13] <mhaberler> exactly
[05:19:31] <mhaberler> you have full access from "inside" the interp, for example see this runtest:
[05:23:08] <mhaberler> not sure if I caught the right one, here is a bit: this is embedded Python code accessing interp internals from 'inside':
http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=blob;f=tests/remap/introspect/oword.py;h=b046937c921a16af7104a8ddaca1a9e95e191ed4;hb=4d727170ead9d762139c441ef87f762db2379a23
[05:23:22] <mhaberler> this is the key to extensibility
[05:24:23] <mhaberler> new g/m codes, redefined existing ones, new cycles etc
[05:24:34] <seb_kuzminsky> i get that
[05:24:52] <seb_kuzminsky> it's very cool
[05:25:33] <mhaberler> appreciated ;) - it was the solution on attempt #5 after throwing away 4 previous stabs at the issue
[05:26:21] <mhaberler> the stuff I didnt finish because of the rtos priority was this:
[05:26:55] <mhaberler> assume for instance tool information, where interp is happiliy fiddling an internal datastructure without any abstraction or getter/setter functions
[05:27:11] <mhaberler> assume you do that - make tools 'a class', sortof
[05:27:20] <mhaberler> what you can then do is this:
[05:28:10] <mhaberler> you can redirect the class methods (by default normal c++) to call python methods instead - this is what the task plugin does, and that is what the persistent param code does which I never merged:
[05:29:57] <mhaberler> this is an outline of the callout API:
http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/rs274ngc/README.python-numberedparams-api;h=32f0ff0004281a6280d851181917e973719863ac;hb=42bc65f4d4e5585dbf6b6dc7d89cd4db896b32fc
[05:31:05] <linuxcnc-build> build #9 of precise-amd64-rtpreempt-rip is complete: Failure [4failed compile_1] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/precise-amd64-rtpreempt-rip/builds/9 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
[05:31:52] <mhaberler> this also removes the original idea of linking in redis at the c level - not needed since it can be imported in python callouts
[05:33:33] <mhaberler> the call_method interp method is really the only interp extension to get this done, this will redirect to Python if redefined:
http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_python.cc;h=f3ebbc117c6ed1b07e518e4a4f7f734263dc1c34;hb=a53cbc88f2077b145e6673c96c1c14b4356a7a82#l284
[05:35:26] <mhaberler> my original intent was to funnel all tool data access through these hooks so they can be redefined at the Python level, with whatever storage mechanism folks desire - anything from ini to oracle ;) - and whatever semantics the toolchanger is supposed to have
[05:35:56] <mhaberler> it's not dead, but I have postponed this in favor of the rtos work which I considered more urgent
[05:37:01] <seb_kuzminsky> i agree the rtos work is more important
[05:37:25] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm worried about the testing matrix that all this python flexibility brings
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[05:38:16] <mhaberler> there are in fact lots of tests of it in place, and not a single failure of it in at least six months - walk the tests/remap and tests/interp trees
[05:40:57] <seb_kuzminsky> when gcode has full access to task internals in this way, we're vulnerable to malicious or erroneous programs
[05:43:02] <mhaberler> well idiot prevention is its own issue - as far as 'security' goes there are much more fundamental issues than this one - it starts with using a realtime kernel and does not stop there
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[05:45:29] <mhaberler> Python exceptions are properly handled, and re: malicious code I would think the comp generator wins the 'how wide a door' contest hands down
[05:46:27] <mhaberler> remember: it inserts _user_ code into the _kernel_ in a Joe-Blow compatible way
[05:48:35] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[05:49:33] <mhaberler> I would think Andy has some comments to make on the fallout potential ;)
[05:52:28] <linuxcnc-build> build #923 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/923 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
[05:54:30] <mhaberler> "I guess we need specific compiler versions to build against these old kernels" - sorry dont have an answer to that
[05:54:44] <mhaberler> thanks for the cleanups!
[05:54:47] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master 6c52475 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: better success report from configure
[05:55:20] <seb_kuzminsky> try again, with sudo this time!
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[05:57:02] <mhaberler> oh
[05:57:41] <mhaberler> I will pick those changes to rtos3 and lets use rtos3 for the time being, ok?
[05:57:59] <mhaberler> in terms of build requirements they should be pretty much the same
[05:59:09] <seb_kuzminsky> ok
[06:00:10] <seb_kuzminsky> 2.5 is really only open for bug fixes and well isolated features (like new drivers), i expect the rtos branch will go into master
[06:00:18] <seb_kuzminsky> but that's a conversation for another night
[06:00:37] <seb_kuzminsky> seeya tomorrow
[06:02:52] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3 6dd2210 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: cleanup merge of master
[06:02:52] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3 5072b29 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: flatten a nested if for legibility
[06:02:55] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3 1efc252 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: comment the inspect_kernel function
[06:03:02] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3 dc8f6c4 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: re-enable "-a"
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[06:03:10] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3 ef706b1 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: most settings are per kernel-type, not per kernel
[06:03:17] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3 05b2b5d 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: better success report from configure
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[06:09:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master 6dd2210 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: cleanup merge of master
[06:09:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master 5072b29 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: flatten a nested if for legibility
[06:09:25] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master 1efc252 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: comment the inspect_kernel function
[06:09:32] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master dc8f6c4 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: re-enable "-a"
[06:09:38] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master ef706b1 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: most settings are per kernel-type, not per kernel
[06:09:46] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master 05b2b5d 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: better success report from configure
[06:09:52] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master 9af4540 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure
[06:09:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> Merge branch 'rtos-integration-preview3' into rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master
[06:10:04] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master 360ba2d 06linuxcnc
[06:10:07] <KGB-linuxcnc> Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master' into rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master
[06:10:12] <mhaberler> see you!
[06:11:04] <mhaberler> and here comes today's Colorado brownout:
[06:12:08] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 00b0ffa 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10configure.in 10rtapi/rt-preempt-user.h * hardy: clock_getres is found in -lrt
[06:12:08] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05dynload-rtapi 6dd2210 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: cleanup merge of master
[06:12:11] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05dynload-rtapi 5072b29 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: flatten a nested if for legibility
[06:12:18] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05dynload-rtapi 1efc252 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: comment the inspect_kernel function
[06:12:24] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05dynload-rtapi dc8f6c4 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: re-enable "-a"
[06:12:30] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05dynload-rtapi ef706b1 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: most settings are per kernel-type, not per kernel
[06:12:37] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 05dynload-rtapi 05b2b5d 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure * deb configure: better success report from configure
[06:12:43] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 5a7eec9 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10rtapi/Submakefile 03rtapi/flavor1.c 03rtapi/rtapi_flavor.h 03rtapi/rtapi_load.c * rtapi flavor loading example
[06:12:50] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 1562769 06linuxcnc 10src/ 03rtapi/rtapi_kdetect.c 03rtapi/rtapi_kdetect.h * import kdetect
[06:12:57] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 336ada0 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10hal/hal.h 10hal/hal_lib.c * hal_lib: introduce constructors, hal_rtapi_attach()/hal_rtapi_detach()
[06:13:04] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 1d42e12 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/hal_lib.c * hal_lib: remove refcounting scheme
[06:13:10] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 763d318 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/sim_rtapi_app.cc * rtapi_app: carry over from rtapi-startup-sequencing
[06:13:16] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 38f5156 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10Makefile 03rtapi/rtapi_main.c * rtapi.so: add rtapi_app_main/rtapi_app_exit stubs
[06:13:23] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 12f6ef1 06linuxcnc 10scripts/realtime.in 10src/hal/hal_lib.c 10src/rtapi/rtapi_main.c * catch up commit before me crashing
[06:13:30] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03john 05dynload-rtapi 519895f 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10(11 files in 2 dirs) * rtapi: herd all rtapi_*() calls through rtapi_switch for universal binary
[06:13:37] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 64b8b56 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10(7 files) * rtapi: dont EXPORT_SYMBOL anything except rtapi_switch
[06:13:44] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 41c2b92 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi_shmem.c * rtapi_shmem: fix typo
[06:13:50] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 0f974cf 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10(7 files) * rtapi: remove all exported symbols except rtapi_switch
[06:13:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 9af0159 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/motion/stashf.c * stashf.c: include rtapi.h to get proper symbol visibility
[06:14:03] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 44df389 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/Submakefile * rtapi: build ulapi.so
[06:14:09] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 43e3b4f 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10hal/Submakefile 10hal/hal_lib.c * hal: remove ULAPI objects from hal_lib link
[06:14:15] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi b7b9f7c 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10rtapi/Submakefile 10rtapi/rtapi.h 10rtapi/rtapi_common.c * rtapi: make rtapi functions go through a pointer, not a struct ref
[06:14:23] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 3abb541 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10hal/Submakefile 10hal/hal_lib.c * hal_lib/ULAPI: dynload ulapi.os - first round
[06:14:29] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 71e02bd 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi_proc.h * rtapi: export rtapi_dir
[06:14:35] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 6557eca 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/hal_lib.c * hal_lib.c: touchups
[06:14:41] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 4ab8453 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/hal_lib.c * hal_lib.c: TODO note
[06:14:47] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 022aa4d 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man3/rtapi_init.3rtapi * docs/man/man3/rtapi_init.3rtapi: back out API change
[06:14:54] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 54f2b91 06linuxcnc 10scripts/linuxcnc.in * scripts/linuxcnc.in: function LinuxcncRunning FIXTHIS - shm keys have changed
[06:15:01] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 5817e56 06linuxcnc 10scripts/realtime.in * scripts/realtime.in changes
[06:15:07] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 31ed9c2 06linuxcnc 10scripts/rtapi.conf.in * scripts/rtapi.conf.in changes - FIXME make HAL_SIZE a configure param
[06:15:13] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 9b7f377 06linuxcnc 10src/Makefile * src/Makefile changes
[06:15:19] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 7801813 06linuxcnc 10src/Makefile.inc.in * src/Makefile.inc.in changes
[06:15:25] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi e661be9 06linuxcnc 10src/Makefile.modinc.in * src/Makefile.modinc.in changes
[06:15:32] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi b247cc4 06linuxcnc 10src/configure.in * src/configure.in changes
[06:15:37] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi dbbb5a4 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/motion/emcmotcfg.h * src/emc/motion/emcmotcfg.h changes
[06:15:44] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 8fcc1a5 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/motion/emcmotglb.c * src/emc/motion/emcmotglb.c changes
[06:15:50] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi fa3a306 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/motion/motion.c * src/emc/motion/motion.c changes
[06:15:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi a74da54 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/Submakefile * src/hal/Submakefile changes
[06:16:02] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi f1f78c7 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/classicladder/arrays.c * src/hal/classicladder/arrays.c changes
[06:16:09] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 5528457 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/components/streamer.h * src/hal/components/streamer.h changes
[06:16:15] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 9d383ec 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/hal_lib.c * src/hal/hal_lib.c: changes
[06:16:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 4cb16db 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/hal_priv.h * src/hal/hal_priv.h changes
[06:16:27] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 2dbfb7f 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/utils/halcmd.c * src/hal/utils/halcmd.c changes
[06:16:33] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 5f632a1 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/utils/halcmd_commands.c * src/hal/utils/halcmd_commands.c changes
[06:16:39] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi fad1912 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/utils/halcmd_main.c * src/utils/halcmd_main.c changes
[06:16:46] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 8a2ed6d 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/utils/halrmt.c * src/hal/utils/halrmt.c changes
[06:16:52] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 7470458 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/utils/scope_shm.h * src/hal/utils/scope_shm.h changes
[06:16:58] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 0c31c60 06linuxcnc 10src/libnml/cms/cms.cc * src/libnml/cms/cms.cc port offsets - FIXME this needs to be done properly
[06:17:05] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 15ae500 06linuxcnc 10src/libnml/ 10os_intf/_sem.c 10os_intf/_shm.c * src/libnml/os_intf/* changes - FIXME these need review
[06:17:12] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 9d19a03 06linuxcnc 10src/libnml/ 10inifile/inifile.cc 03inifile/inifile.h 10inifile/inifile.hh * src/libnmll/inifile.* changes
[06:17:19] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 03c5bae 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/README * src/rtapi/README
[06:17:25] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 34f0912 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/Submakefile * src/rtapi/Submakefile
[06:17:31] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi ceb0c52 06linuxcnc 03src/rtapi/instance.c * src/rtapi/instance.c new
[06:17:36] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi cd0c618 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rt-preempt-user.c * src/rtapi/rt-preempt-user.c changes
[06:17:43] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 314357a 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rt-preempt-user.h * src/rtapi/rt-preempt-user.h changes
[06:17:49] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi e9d1d06 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10rtapi/rtai-kernel.c 10rtapi/rtai-kernel.h * src/rtapi/rtai-kernel.c,.h changes
[06:17:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 02e3b44 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi.h * src/rtapi/rtapi.h changes
[06:18:02] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi ddc3eb4 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi_bitops.h * src/rtapi/rtapi_bitops.h changes
[06:18:08] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 12a390f 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi_common.c * src/rtapi/rtapi_common.c changes
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[06:18:14] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 421d5ac 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi_common.h * src/rtapi/rtapi_common.h changes
[06:18:20] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 625b12f 06linuxcnc 03src/rtapi/rtapi_compat.c * src/rtapi/rtapi_compat.c new file
[06:18:27] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi ca9551a 06linuxcnc 03src/rtapi/rtapi_export.h * src/rtapi/rtapi_export.h factored out
[06:18:33] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 8162a61 06linuxcnc 03src/rtapi/rtapi_global.h * src/rtapi/rtapi_global.h new file
[06:18:39] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi f333ef7 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi_main.c * src/rtapi/rtapi_main.c changes
[06:18:45] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 898fd1b 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi_module.c * src/rtapi/rtapi_module.c changes
[06:18:51] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 29bff00 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi_proc.h * src/rtapi/rtapi_proc.h changes
[06:18:57] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi cc8a506 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi_shmem.c * src/rtapi/rtapi_shmem.c changes
[06:19:04] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 13cc83c 06linuxcnc 03src/rtapi/rtapi_shmkeys.h * src/rtapi/rtapi_shmkeys.h new file
[06:19:10] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi fca014d 06linuxcnc 10src/ 03rtapi/rtapi_support.c 03rtapi/rtapi_support.h * src/rtapi/rtapi_support.c/.h factored out from _msg.c/h and extended
[06:19:17] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi c2487ea 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi_task.c * src/rtapi/rtapi_task.c changes
[06:19:23] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 649c04b 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/rtapi_time.c * src7rtapi/rtapi_time.c changes
[06:19:29] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi df6cbeb 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/sim_rtapi_app.cc * src/rtapi/sim_rtapi_app.cc changes
[06:19:36] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 0deb0b7 06linuxcnc 10src/rtapi/xeno_math/libm.c * src/rtapi/xeno_math/libm.c touchups
[06:19:42] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi 2e459d9 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10rtapi/xenomai-user.c 10rtapi/xenomai-user.h * src/rtapi/xenomai-usr.c/.h changes
[06:19:49] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi cf88959 06linuxcnc 10src/ 10rtapi/xenomai-kernel.c 10rtapi/xenomai-kernel.h * src/rtapi/xenomai-kernel.c/.h changes
[06:19:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi a25ec4b 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/hal_lib.c * cleanup: remove accidentially committed hunk in hal_lib.c
[06:20:02] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi b0b214d 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/utils/halcmd_commands.c * src/hal/utils/halcmd_commands.c: cleanup accident
[06:20:09] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03git 05dynload-rtapi e99b466 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/hal_lib.c * src/hal/hal_lib.c: remove accidentially exported symbols
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[07:44:56] <linuxcnc-build> build #765 of deb-precise-sim-binary-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-precise-sim-binary-i386/builds/765 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
[07:53:16] <linuxcnc-build> build #764 of deb-precise-sim-binary-amd64 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-precise-sim-binary-amd64/builds/764 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
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[08:03:59] <linuxcnc-build> build #761 of deb-hardy-sim-binary-amd64 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-hardy-sim-binary-amd64/builds/761 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
[08:08:06] <linuxcnc-build> build #760 of deb-hardy-sim-binary-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-hardy-sim-binary-i386/builds/760 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
[08:09:23] <linuxcnc-build> build #758 of deb-lucid-sim-binary-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-lucid-sim-binary-i386/builds/758 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
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[08:17:23] <linuxcnc-build> build #757 of deb-lucid-sim-binary-amd64 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-lucid-sim-binary-amd64/builds/757 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
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[08:30:09] <linuxcnc-build> build #930 of precise-amd64-sim is complete: Failure [4failed runtests] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/precise-amd64-sim/builds/930 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
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[08:57:03] <linuxcnc-build> build #925 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/925 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
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[10:02:03] <linuxcnc-build> build #930 of hardy-i386-sim is complete: Failure [4failed runtests] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/hardy-i386-sim/builds/930 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>, Michael Haberler <git@mah.priv.at>
[10:08:00] <linuxcnc-build> build #926 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/926 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>, Michael Haberler <git@mah.priv.at>
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[10:49:26] <linuxcnc-build> build #29 of precise-x86-rtpreempt-rip is complete: Failure [4failed runtests] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/precise-x86-rtpreempt-rip/builds/29 blamelist: dummy, Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>, Michael Haberler <git@mah.priv.at>, John Morris <john@zultron.com>
[10:50:16] <linuxcnc-build> build #13 of precise-amd64-rtpreempt-rip is complete: Failure [4failed runtests] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/precise-amd64-rtpreempt-rip/builds/13 blamelist: dummy, Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>, Michael Haberler <git@mah.priv.at>, John Morris <john@zultron.com>
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[11:08:25] <linuxcnc-build> build #927 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/927 blamelist: dummy, Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>, Michael Haberler <git@mah.priv.at>, John Morris <john@zultron.com>
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[14:11:49] <seb_kuzminsky> linuxcnc-build: force build --branch=rtos-integration-preview3
[14:11:50] <linuxcnc-build> you must provide a Builder, try 'force build [--branch=BRANCH] [--revision=REVISION] [--props=PROP1=VAL1,PROP2=VAL2...] <WHICH> <REASON>'
[14:11:54] <seb_kuzminsky> linuxcnc-build: force build --branch=rtos-integration-preview3 checkin
[14:11:56] <linuxcnc-build> build #928 forced
[14:11:56] <linuxcnc-build> I'll give a shout when the build finishes
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[15:22:56] <linuxcnc-build> build #0 of package-xenomai-precise-source is complete: Failure [4failed shell] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/package-xenomai-precise-source/builds/0
[15:23:11] <linuxcnc-build> build #0 of package-rtpreempt-precise-source is complete: Failure [4failed shell] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/package-rtpreempt-precise-source/builds/0
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[15:37:18] <linuxcnc-build> build #928 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/928
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[15:50:25] <linuxcnc-build> build #766 of deb-precise-sim-binary-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-precise-sim-binary-i386/builds/766
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[15:56:09] <linuxcnc-build> build #765 of deb-precise-sim-binary-amd64 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-precise-sim-binary-amd64/builds/765
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[16:04:42] <linuxcnc-build> build #762 of deb-hardy-sim-binary-amd64 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-hardy-sim-binary-amd64/builds/762
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[16:08:19] <linuxcnc-build> build #761 of deb-hardy-sim-binary-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-hardy-sim-binary-i386/builds/761
[16:10:52] <linuxcnc-build> build #759 of deb-lucid-sim-binary-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-lucid-sim-binary-i386/builds/759
[16:11:17] <skunkworks_> heh - I always read them as 'complete failure'
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[16:15:58] <linuxcnc-build> build #758 of deb-lucid-sim-binary-amd64 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-lucid-sim-binary-amd64/builds/758
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[17:59:48] <mozmck> re: Poor CV, there are a couple of projects doing CNC in microcontrollers that have lookahead - smoothieware.org and
http://dank.bengler.no/-/page/show/5470_grbl?ref=checkpoint
[18:02:36] <cradek> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6pno3kkUn1rsxy19o1_500.png
[18:03:15] <mozmck> :) is that in reference to the Poor CV thread?
[18:03:24] <pcw_home> thats clearly the solution!
[18:04:19] <pcw_home> I suspect good CV is easy for a simple TP, integrating it with all the other linuxCNC TP features is not so easy
[18:04:47] <cradek> I suspect the same
[18:05:13] <mozmck> I have an interest in working on lookahead and the TP, and I might even get a little time sometime.
[18:05:21] <cradek> I also suspect that saying IT'S LIKE A RACETRACK over and over is easier than implementing something useful
[18:05:57] <cradek> mozmck: I would love for someone else to have a stab at it
[18:06:12] <cradek> heck I'd be happy if someone else had even touched it last :-)
[18:07:01] <cradek> ack, sorry for whining
[18:07:09] <mozmck> :) I'm going to try. Working on motor acceleration stuff in another project and getting a feel for things that might be helpful.
[18:08:51] <cradek> I'll help you test. I have a lot of (ahem) experience finding problems in it...
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[18:10:27] <mozmck> :) It will still be a little while.
[18:10:46] <pcw_home> wasn't some speculation about a VPT mode considered?
[18:11:18] <mozmck> VPT?
[18:11:39] <pcw_home> Virtual Paper Tape
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[18:12:12] <cradek> to me, that's about delaying the application of offsets, and not really about motion planning at all. or am I missing a link that you see?
[18:14:51] <cradek> mozmck: some testing suggestions from back when yishin was working on an alternate planner:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/6367
[18:15:08] <pcw_home> I'm probably mis-remembering
[18:15:53] <mozmck> cradek: thanks. Is that for the S-curve stuff?
[18:16:08] <cradek> yes this was when he was working on jerk-constrained motion
[18:16:33] <cradek> fwiw, he added jerk constraint to the current algorithm, which would have made CV performance worse
[18:16:49] <mozmck> I see. I'm thinking right now that a better lookahead might be more important than jerk constraint.
[18:16:51] <cradek> as far as I know he never got it working correctly (it's very much more complicated than accel-constrained)
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[18:17:03] <mozmck> I imagine so.
[18:17:20] <cradek> well of course it'd be nice to have both :-)
[18:17:44] <mozmck> yes.
[18:18:01] <cradek> which feature you want more depends mostly on your gcode (and also on your machine's acceleration and mass)
[18:18:20] <cradek> my vmc is very high powered and could run with very high acceleration if not for the jerking
[18:18:37] <cradek> and that makes the lookahead problem really go away
[18:19:12] <cradek> also I have no cam and so my gcode is "good" (not made of many tiny moves)
[18:19:13] <mozmck> true. we deal with a lot of plasma cutting and contour routing which makes the lookahead more important.
[18:19:52] <cradek> yep, a lot of people have high feed machines coupled with "bad" gcode
[18:19:57] <mozmck> plasma needs fairly high speed too.
[18:20:22] <mozmck> yep
[18:20:22] <cradek> I'd love it if we could get rid of the NCD layer
[18:20:42] <mozmck> NCD?
[18:21:00] <cradek> naive cam detector (move-combining-according-to-tolerance layer)
[18:22:15] <mozmck> I see. I think it is pretty nice to be able to set the tolerance you want to keep to. I guess it is currently a layer on top of the TP?
[18:22:57] <cradek> there are currently two tolerances: the tolerance for move-combining, and the corner-rounding tolerance at a blend between moves
[18:23:11] <cradek> they used to be according to the same number, now you can set them separately
[18:23:38] <cradek> corner-rounding tolerance is in the TP. move-combining is before it.
[18:25:35] <mozmck> hmm. I would guess move-combining with a tolerance could be implemented in a TP with more lookahead.
[18:26:04] <cradek> well ideally you wouldn't have to do it at all. it's just a hack to get the line lengths up.
[18:26:38] <cradek> you need to analyze and plan a PATH, not individual moves representing one line of gcode each
[18:32:19] <pcw_home> for a router or plasma cutter you might be able to pre-process the complete path before you start
[18:32:50] <cradek> depends whether you want to have feed override
[18:34:47] <cradek> FO > 100% is a problem anyway
[18:35:06] <cradek> you can always have a suboptimal FO < 100% by time-scaling without violating constraints
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[18:38:25] <pcw_home> Yes I guess a compromise is enough path generation to avoid compromising feed rate but balanced with FO response time
[18:39:12] <cradek> yeah, right now we have immediate feed response, which makes spindle-synced motion and adaptive feed (edm) possible
[18:39:28] <cradek> not only possible, they're fairly easy
[18:39:37] <mozmck> Some things I've seen look ahead a fixed number of moves - 20 or something. I think then as the machine moves it adds moves and re-calculates the whole 20 move path.
[18:40:15] <mozmck> The same could be done for a FO change I would think.
[18:41:49] <cradek> I think you can't really increase FO if you've pre-planned anything
[18:42:29] <skunkworks_> you could after the 20 moves.. ;)
[18:43:10] <cradek> imagine going around a square at F100, with the corners rounded enough to keep your accel constraints satisfied. your machine can go F300. you CAN speed up to F200 but you have to round the corners more to do it.
[18:43:51] <cradek> yes it's interesting to think about FO increases being delayed but FO decreases happening right away
[18:44:18] <cradek> you'd need a different mode for edm/threading/tapping I guess
[18:45:13] <cradek> mozmck: instead of 20 moves, I think you'd want to preplan enough moves to be able to stop (FO=0%) while staying on the path (not running out of moves) and then no more
[18:45:30] <skunkworks_> cradek, isn't that the current implimentation? If you speed up the feed rate - the path changes?
[18:45:38] <cradek> "how many moves of lookahead do we have/want" is misguided
[18:46:05] <cradek> skunkworks_: yes - we're talking about an alternate world where we've planned some future moves ahead of time, making that change impossible
[18:46:15] <skunkworks_> ah
[18:46:27] <skunkworks_> I don't think we want a plan ahead system. :)
[18:46:43] <skunkworks_> or atleast not much plan ahead with the abillity to change...
[18:46:44] <cradek> well frankly we want a lot of conflicting things
[18:46:52] <skunkworks_> I agree ;)
[18:47:05] <cradek> we currently have some of them and not others :-)
[18:47:07] <mozmck> cradek: hmm, my thought is that you would re-plan the moves you had planned
[18:47:41] <skunkworks_> but in my head is seems so easy ;)
[18:47:44] <mozmck> which is why you wouldn't want too many moves planned ahead - so you can re-plan quickly enough to put it into action right away.
[18:47:55] <cradek> mozmck: yes if you can discard and redo them, you might be ok, but it's not clear to me you can always do that and continue on the path
[18:50:08] <cradek> some necessary conditions going into your replan are that you're currently "here" and moving "this fast" and it seems like that can sometimes make a replan impossible?
[18:50:15] <mozmck> that could be true. if you slow down you can get closer to the programmed path... If you have a tolerance set though a speed up *might* not affect the path
[18:51:00] <skunkworks_> or it may speed up areas while other areas stay the same..
[18:53:27] <mozmck> yes, that could be, maintain the currently planned path for the current block, while changing the speed where you can.
[18:53:56] <cradek> anytime you change the speed in an unplanned way, you contribute unplanned accel
[18:56:47] <skunkworks_> cradek, question - you said the corner rounding tolerance and ncd tolerance are now separate. Does the corner rounding tolerance use the ncd path or the original gcode path?
[18:56:56] <mozmck> why not plan it? just put limits on things. so if you are moving in a straight line, you can change right away (using the proper accel of course)
[18:57:25] <cradek> skunkworks_: the ncd path
[18:57:33] <skunkworks_> ah - ok
[18:59:04] <cradek> I guess you are right. maybe your planning step is like "given that I'm HERE and moving THIS FAST, plan future moves until either I can stop from here or I hit the end of the program"
[19:00:03] <cradek> I guess you just round all the corners fully up to the given tolerance?
[19:00:52] <cradek> not sure if the path changing (getting closer to nominal) when the speed changes (slows down) is a feature
[19:02:17] <skunkworks_> 'use the whole road... '
[19:02:46] <cradek> I bet people only think they want that
[19:02:54] <skunkworks_> heh
[19:03:06] <cradek> staying on the (center of the) path as much as possible is nice too
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[19:03:20] <cradek> people prefer the straight features on their parts to be straight
[19:03:58] <cradek> if you could use the whole road, your square parts would be more circular than you expect
[19:04:03] <skunkworks_> I supose when your profileing from both direction and you see the line tipped one way going one direction and the other going the other....
[19:04:53] <cradek> the part of the parts you can easily measure should be cut on the nominal path :-)
[19:05:13] <skunkworks_> heh
[19:10:38] <mozmck> yeah, changes in the path might not be good. one corner of a square rounded and the next one sharp because they slowed it down in the middle.
[19:13:17] <skunkworks_> eh - but you should know that..
[19:13:39] <skunkworks_> or set your tolerance accordingly
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[19:21:16] <skunkworks_> cradek, reminds me of your debugging of threading. I remember you saying something like - 'It finally dawned on me that I didn't want to keep stopping - I wanted to keep going at the current rate..' (or something like that)
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[19:33:44] <skunkworks_> (I might be remembering wrong..)
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[19:52:36] <skunkworks_> wow - I remember the oddest things. I typed in the search - 'cradek threading shower' and
[19:52:37] <skunkworks_> http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23emc-devel/2009-10-25.html#18:19:13
[19:57:25] <cradek> our current planner is 7 years old now. I announced it Mar 1 2006
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[19:58:30] <skunkworks_> wow - that is when I started getting interested in linuxcnc..
[19:58:53] <skunkworks_> well - about 6 months before that...
[19:58:56] <cradek> found the pics I sent with the announcement too: old planner:
http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/.old/nasty-blend.png "new" planner:
http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/.old/whee.png
[19:59:23] <cradek> heh AXIS hasn't changed much...
[19:59:53] <skunkworks_> nope. Still works great!
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[20:01:55] <skunkworks_> wow - that blend is yecky
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[20:29:53] <JT-Shop> wow, what a difference
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[23:37:07] <cradek> mozmck: ken says you should also add jerk limiting, and it doesn't sound like rocket science. :-/
[23:38:38] <cradek> maybe we (ahem) you should just plan for max-FO and time-scale it
[23:39:11] <cradek> I wonder where people generally set their max-FO
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[23:42:35] <cradek> "just"
[23:42:37] <cradek> now I'm doing it
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