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[01:04:55] <jepler_> cmorley: thank you
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[01:20:49] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03andy 05master 6de09bb 06linuxcnc 03docs/man/man9/matrix_kb.9 10src/Makefile 10src/Makefile.inc.in 03src/hal/components/matrix_kb.c * Add a matrix keyboard driver
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[01:30:53] <linuxcnc-build> build #853 of lucid-i386-sim is complete: Failure [4failed compile] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/lucid-i386-sim/builds/853 blamelist: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[01:31:30] <andypugh> OhOh!
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[01:31:46] <andypugh> I forgot to check the sim build!
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[01:36:32] <linuxcnc-build> build #857 of precise-amd64-sim is complete: Failure [4failed compile] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/precise-amd64-sim/builds/857 blamelist: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[01:36:53] <linuxcnc-build> build #855 of precise-i386-sim is complete: Failure [4failed compile] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/precise-i386-sim/builds/855 blamelist: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
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[01:37:56] <linuxcnc-build> build #853 of lucid-amd64-sim is complete: Failure [4failed compile] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/lucid-amd64-sim/builds/853 blamelist: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[01:38:46] <linuxcnc-build> build #856 of hardy-amd64-sim is complete: Failure [4failed compile] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/hardy-amd64-sim/builds/856 blamelist: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[01:40:02] <linuxcnc-build> build #854 of hardy-i386-sim is complete: Failure [4failed compile] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/hardy-i386-sim/builds/854 blamelist: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
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[01:41:01] <andypugh> Is it possible to just exclude a component from the sim builds? This one is absolutely useless without hardware.
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[01:44:43] <micges> see how mesa driver is managed by makefile
[01:45:32] <micges> there are few ifs which are only executed not in sim mode
[01:47:51] <linuxcnc-build> build #653 of precise-amd64-sim-clang is complete: Failure [4failed compile] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/precise-amd64-sim-clang/builds/653 blamelist: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
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[01:48:16] <andypugh> I don't think I have the time to learn Makefile syntax tonight :-(
[01:54:31] <linuxcnc-build> build #55 of precise-i386-realtime-rip is complete: Failure [4failed clear-dmesg get-dmesg] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/precise-i386-realtime-rip/builds/55 blamelist: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
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[02:13:47] <linuxcnc-build> build #852 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/852 blamelist: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
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[02:35:08] <KGB-linuxcnc_> 03andy 05master c34af27 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/components/matrix_kb.c * Attempt to make the sim-builds work again
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[03:12:58] <linuxcnc-build> build #56 of precise-i386-realtime-rip is complete: Failure [4failed clear-dmesg get-dmesg] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/precise-i386-realtime-rip/builds/56 blamelist: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
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[03:30:16] <linuxcnc-build> build #853 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/853 blamelist: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
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[14:01:01] <cradek> we passed 50k messages to emc-users over the weekend
[14:01:55] <skunkworks> yay
[14:02:09] <skunkworks> seems like some sort of milestone...
[14:02:46] <cradek> the milestone is my email folder is getting big
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[14:16:17] <alex_joni> I have 45939 in my emc-users inbox
[14:16:31] <alex_joni> only counting since 26.10.2005 though
[14:16:43] <alex_joni> 10.5k in -dev
[14:18:46] <cradek> I have 50022 now
[14:19:18] <alex_joni> what's the oldest one?
[14:20:24] <cradek> Mar 12 2003
[14:21:37] <cradek> although I think May 12-15 2003 is when the list started. I think the six or so messages marked Mar 2003 are all from ray h having his clock set wrong in Mar 2004
[14:22:31] <cradek> I do not have the mails from the emc@nist.gov list in this mailbox but I have "all" the sf emc-users mails
[14:23:03] <cradek> Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:15:03 -0500
[14:23:21] <cradek> ^ the first message announcing moving to the new list
[14:26:50] <cradek> that's only about one message every 2 hours
[14:32:10] <skunkworks> the earliest sane email from the list is [Emc-developers] new trajectory planner
[14:32:38] <skunkworks> no - that doesn't seem right
[14:33:04] <skunkworks> (from cradek)
[14:34:18] <skunkworks> that must be an email date oops maybe
[14:35:00] <cradek> I see something like that from Mar 4 2006
[14:35:29] <skunkworks> heh - my mail client says I have 51841 that have '[emc-' in them
[14:35:36] <cradek> announcement of freenode #emc-users irc channel, 16 May 2003
[14:35:43] <cradek> we're coming right up on 10 years
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[14:36:05] <skunkworks> cradek, yes - that is what I see - but then there are pretty consistant emails starting about 10/31/06
[14:36:37] <skunkworks> and that is about when I became concious of linuxcnc...
[14:37:02] <skunkworks> maybe I lost a bunch of emails...
[14:37:25] <cradek> and shortly after the announcement, someone explains what :-) and :-( and rtfm and stfw mean
[14:37:47] <skunkworks> heh
[14:38:21] <alex_joni> no stfu?
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[16:17:21] <kwallace> We are thinking about looking into keyboard jogging. One can press two arrow buttons to get diagonal jogging then release one button to change direction. One cannot go from one button jogging to two button without stopping and restarting with two buttons.
[16:17:43] <cradek> you sure can in AXIS
[16:18:43] <kwallace> Then I suppose we need to look at it. Thank you.
[16:25:45] <kwallace> Has AXIS always had full two button jogging? I had the assumption that this was an issue for a long time.
[16:26:01] <cradek> you can do diagonals in all axes, not just X/Y
[16:26:30] <cradek> yes it has worked since the very early days, but I recall it was a pain in the ass to get working right
[16:27:27] <cradek> AXIS is likely the only gui that gets it right
[16:27:46] <alex_joni> I remember a lot of tries to get it right
[16:28:01] <cradek> I recall tkemc would keep jogging forever if you confused it by pressing too many (2?) jog keys at once. might or might not still do it.
[16:28:13] <cradek> yes it was quite terrible
[16:29:59] <kwallace> A shuttle is most commonly used here. I got one and I'm not convinced.
[16:31:39] <cradek> we don't debate matters of religion here :-)
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[17:09:21] <skunkworks> 'here' as in tormach world?
[17:10:00] <kwallace> Yes, Tormachlandia.
[17:10:17] <skunkworks> :) Tormachian
[17:13:15] <cradek> I can't understand why the default view of the sf trackers includes closed items
[17:15:18] <skunkworks> iirc - seb got it working and seems to like it.. (shuttle)
[17:15:18] <kwallace> "You are standing in front of a PCNC, to your right is a CNC console, in your left hand is a block of aluminum... No you can't go South... No you can't go South"
[17:15:34] <skunkworks> heh
[17:16:16] <cradek> combine PCNC and aluminum
[17:16:25] <cradek> use PCNC on aluminum
[17:16:28] <cradek> inventory
[17:16:29] <cradek> look
[17:16:29] <cradek> help
[17:16:35] <cradek> quit
[17:18:41] <skunkworks> I never had enough patience or spelling ability to play those games.. :)
[17:19:57] <alex_joni> skunkworks: hah
[17:23:07] <kwallace> Shuttle gripes so far. The ring seems to have 4 bits of resolution, so there are noticeable steps. The steps can be quit abrupt (and maybe not consistent) which is _really_ unnerving on my HNC because it seems one is always close to something. The center wheel finger divot is way too small or really needs a rotating post. The outer buttons are kind of nice. I wonder where the oil on one's fingers is going to go after touching it.
[17:32:19] <skunkworks> when fps'ers came out - I burned my self out on them.. (stopped playing games about the time quake 3 came out)
[17:32:35] <skunkworks> no - doom 3
[17:36:02] <kwallace> Network doom at the office, ah those were the days.
[17:37:13] <skunkworks> yes...
[17:37:52] <skunkworks> when wolfinstine 3d came out - when I was in college.. I am suprised I graduated...
[17:38:11] <skunkworks> that was so cool at the time.
[17:39:19] <skunkworks> Then I was browsing best buy and saw doom - ID software... Wonder if this is any good. ;)
[17:39:36] <skunkworks> I think I lost a whole month...
[17:43:55] <kwallace> Speaking of lost months, I looked for a Linux version of Myst but there seemed to be zero interest from the developer to make one. I guess the next few months are safe.
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[18:06:01] <cradek> kwallace: I suppose people who have never used a good responsive jogwheel love them because they are somewhat better than keyboard jogging
[18:08:34] <skunkworks> isn't it all on how what the jog increment is set to?
[18:09:35] <skunkworks> (partly - you should be able to set what each 'click' on the wheel does..)
[18:10:48] <cradek> my understanding is the outer part does continuous (velocity based) jogs of various speeds, and like the keyboard it's read in nonrealtime so the stopping will be approximate
[18:11:17] <cradek> the inner part is position based and has a few (6?) clicks as you turn it around, like the world's worst jogwheel
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[18:17:47] <cradek> with touchy, you can adjust the jog speed with the wheel WHILE you're doing continuous jogs with the switches
[18:18:06] <cradek> pretty nice for facing etc
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[18:24:47] <kwallace> I found that sometimes I'll be jogging and want a little more or less speed. I turn the ring a little and nothing happens, so a little more, and more, then it jumps to the next bit, by then it's too much too late. The ring should have enough resolution to allow for immediate feedback with small inputs.
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[18:44:23] <kwallace> Does GScreen do keyboard jogging?
[18:46:15] <cradek> I don't know anything about it, sorry
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[20:04:08] <cmorley> Gscreen does not do keyboard jogging. Not because I'm religiously against it. MPG just seems so superior. Never got to it keyboard stuff yet.
[20:04:44] <cmorley> It does do touch screen jogging but not diagonal
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[20:07:18] <kwallace> Thanks. I thought GScreen was more touch screen based so I didn't look too hard.
[20:10:55] <kwallace> I gave up on y2 for a lathe rear tool view. I tweak the gl commands in y just before plotting. I wonder if GScreen should do the same, and ditch all but the y view?
[20:12:25] <cmorley> What was wrong with y2 view (other then some text backwards)
[20:15:52] <kwallace> When I tried to fix the backwards text, I started getting exceptions and crashing LinuxCNC. I don't recall why, but it was just easier to finish the y view work I started in our GUI.
[20:17:15] <cmorley> ahh. what will your GUI look like (Roughly) if you talk talk about it.
[20:17:24] <cmorley> can talk
[20:17:51] <cmorley> I assume no touchscreen
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[20:20:30] <kwallace> I don't have a touch screen here to play with, but there is a touch screen selector in the setup screen.
[20:25:21] <kwallace> Here is a shot with the Gremlin window:
http://wallacecompany.com/tmp/Screenshot-tormach_lathe_ui.py-1.png
[20:25:58] <kwallace> Not much exciting there.
[20:27:07] <cmorley> What widget toolkit is that?
[20:27:30] <cmorley> looks like QT?
[20:28:24] <cmorley> clean design
[20:29:30] <kwallace> Glade/GTK
[20:30:01] <kwallace> http://wallacecompany.com/tmp/Screenshot-tormach_lathe_ui.py-2.png
[20:31:09] <cmorley> What GTK theme are you using?
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[20:32:30] <kwallace> They have a graphics "guy" that makes up the buttons, backgrounds and such.
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[20:32:59] <cmorley> ahh that explains it :)
[20:33:28] <cradek> I'd think using pictures of buttons with pictures of text on them makes you peculiarly vulnerable to screen resolution issues
[20:34:51] <kwallace> We are assuming a strict 1280 x 768 resolution. Everything is in a Fixed box.
[20:35:02] <cradek> :-/
[20:36:29] <kwallace> Kind of Applish, where everything is controlled, soup to nuts.
[20:36:32] <cmorley> Do the buttons click ( change slightly )?
[20:37:20] <kwallace> The buttons jog a pixel or two on press then back on release.
[20:39:01] <cmorley> painted text also makes translations a pain >>>
[20:39:13] <cradek> yes
[20:39:36] <cradek> the desire to control each pixel causes much suffering
[20:39:56] <cmorley> I guess tormach is not so international?
[20:41:19] <cmorley> GTK themes allow painted buttons with text separate too. Theme engines - its a lot of work
[20:43:05] <kwallace> I suppose it could be worth the effort if one gets the right kind of feedbag oops feedback.
[20:43:57] <cradek> I guess non-english-speakers could just use one of the linuxcnc guis.
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[20:44:53] <cradek> (none of them have these same limitations as far as I know)
[20:45:19] <kwallace> Agreed.
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[20:46:08] <cradek> makes me sad to see new designs making application-design-101 type errors though :-(
[20:46:18] <cmorley> Will the GLADE file / theme be released open source?
[20:46:34] <cradek> you'd think at least i18n would be important for business reasons
[20:47:00] <cmorley> Is this a proof of concept or finished product?
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[20:51:30] <kwallace> It's not a proof of concept.
[20:54:21] <kwallace> Please don't spread those screens, just in case I should not have posted them.
[20:54:52] <cmorley> no problem I assumed as much.
[20:55:26] <kwallace> I'll be glad when this is all done.
[20:55:31] <cmorley> I am happy they are using linuxcnc. was that a hard choice for them?
[20:56:27] <kwallace> They are almost giddy.
[20:56:56] <cradek> I'd guess it's either that or not have a working lathe to sell - looks like not a hard choice from here
[20:56:59] <cmorley> I like that they give back so much. White papers and such. very top notch
[20:57:56] <cradek> yeah I agree. I like that they're moving to free software. this is good for everyone, seller and customer.
[20:58:06] <cmorley> Well I meant were they dreading that fact they had too
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[21:01:50] <cmorley> kwallace will they add fanuc style tool changes?
[21:02:13] <cmorley> fanuc lathe style
[21:02:15] <kwallace> I think they could see a time where they had to do something and relieved that there was an option.
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[21:03:05] <andypugh> Wasn't it Tormach who came up with the Ganuc-style patch?
[21:03:15] <cmorley> I thought they really like Mach but I guess that the image you must present if thats what you use at the time.
[21:03:57] <cmorley> I never got that idea but who know who works for who!
[21:04:08] <andypugh> cmorley:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/daniel-rogge/45/928/324
[21:04:15] <cmorley> I really wish we would add it.
[21:04:17] <kwallace> Yes, with a pair of tool numbers like T1/T10001, tool with wear offset.
[21:04:34] <cmorley> well there you go !
[21:05:35] <andypugh> The Patch isn't strictly necessary. Existing code can remap the T-word to a G-code sub that interprets the tool number any way that you fancy
[21:06:17] <cmorley> ya it makes sense to have a lathe that way, if you want to appeal to existing machinists
[21:06:43] <andypugh> I am indifferent. :-)
[21:06:46] <cmorley> I don't think remapping is a reasonable way to support lathes
[21:07:24] <andypugh> I am used to TN M6 G43, and might get confused as my mill and lathe are the same machine. But I am atypical.
[21:07:47] <cmorley> yes atypical
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[21:14:09] <andypugh> kwallace: There is someone on the forums asking about back-toolpost display. Is there anything built-in to current code that helps there?
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[21:18:36] <kwallace> I see backtool as meaning reversing the x axis direction so the most used side of the spindle is to positive side. We have a flag is-rear_tp that if true just tells OpenGL to plot the feature in the other direction. This is in our branch.
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[21:25:07] <cmorley> In master there is Y2 view which is not perfect. It gives the same view as the axisrc example I showed him. I think your talking the same thread Andy.
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[21:27:33] <kwallace> Should I take another try at the text in Y2?
[21:28:39] <cmorley> it would be very useful to some people. It's a fairly common lathe question
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[23:42:25] <andypugh> Does anyone have any ideas on how to make my recently-added component compile in sim mode?
[23:43:20] <andypugh> The problem is that it #includes a header which is entierly wrapped in an #ifdef KERNEL so in SIM mode none of the function prototypes or structs exist.
[23:44:11] <andypugh> Is the trick to define a bunch of empty functions and a minimalist struct at the top of my file for SIM compilation?
[23:48:58] <andypugh> Or is it better to simply not make the component in SIM mode?
[23:49:22] <andypugh> (It looks like that would use "ifneq ($(BUILD_SYS),sim)" in the Makefile?
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