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[08:59:09] <mhaberler> yes
[08:59:23] <mhaberler> ah, sorry - too early. will let you know
[08:59:30] <mhaberler> need more coffee;)
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[10:59:09] <mhaberler> seb_kuzminsky: sha 7d24feb20f469549a2cb23f76a31b7a2101f1092 vbox/mac/sim: 8 fails as before
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[11:18:24] <mhaberler> rtai/atom/rt build: 0 fails
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[12:05:07] <mhaberler> sbe_kuzminsky: guess you havent caught all environment dependencies. Here's env output for vbox lucid:
http://pastebin.ca/2329453
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[15:24:10] <seb_kuzminsky> mhaberler: please also post the ful output (stdout & stderr) of a failing test run
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[17:04:20] <jepler> whatever's going on it looks like it's probably not localization; it looked like the locale was en_US.UTF-8 just like for the people who are writing most of the testsuite
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[19:07:18] <skunkworks> ok - what does teleop stand for?
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[19:10:01] <andypugh> Telepathic Operation. You need to know psychically when to stop jogging.
[19:13:05] <skunkworks> heh
[19:13:12] <skunkworks> wait - really?
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[19:49:31] <skunkworks> ah - it just mean 'under human control'
[19:54:52] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: linuxcnc has three modes it can be in: free, teleop, or coord
[19:55:02] <seb_kuzminsky> free is joint-at-a-time jogging
[19:55:17] <seb_kuzminsky> teleop is cartesian jogging via kins
[19:55:28] <andypugh> mhaberler: Can Python issue halcmd commands? (Like loading and unloading HAL components?)
[19:55:37] <seb_kuzminsky> coord is running gcode via kins
[19:55:52] <mhaberler> yes, in a mah private brach
[19:55:53] <skunkworks> seb_kuzminsky, ah - thanks
[19:55:54] <mhaberler> branch
[19:56:03] <mhaberler> I have guests, will talk back later
[19:56:07] <andypugh> OK
[19:56:25] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/code/Code_Notes.html#_free
[19:56:35] <seb_kuzminsky> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/code/Code_Notes.html#_teleop
[19:56:43] <seb_kuzminsky> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/code/Code_Notes.html#_coord
[19:57:32] <seb_kuzminsky> most machines use trivkins, and trivkins machines have no obvious difference between free and teleop modes
[19:57:53] <skunkworks> because axis = joint
[19:57:57] <seb_kuzminsky> exactly
[19:58:54] <seb_kuzminsky> soft limits are fundamentally broken on non-trivkins machines, as i understand it
[20:00:03] <seb_kuzminsky> i don't really understand why
[20:00:16] <andypugh> I wonder what the problem is? I guess that there is no clear link between how fast the controlled point is moving, and how fast the axis is moving.
[20:00:50] <seb_kuzminsky> yes, that sounds like a problem
[20:01:09] <skunkworks> for robots - the soft limits are not a box ;)
[20:01:11] <andypugh> Serial kins is easier than parallel kins, I guess.
[20:01:30] <andypugh> skunkworks: But they only need to be applied per-joint
[20:01:38] <skunkworks> sure
[20:02:31] <andypugh> You can (probably) tell is a particular joint is going to hit its limit within the stopping distance, and start to slow everything.
[20:03:29] <andypugh> I wonder which accel value teleop uses?
[20:04:14] <andypugh> Naturally I would look at this, except I am currently coding something easier :-)
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[20:45:12] <alex_joni> andypugh: if you're talking 2.5 or master, then it's a mess
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[20:45:30] <alex_joni> as in joint vel/accel used in coordinated moves and in teleop
[20:45:45] <alex_joni> but not always (just to confuse things further)
[20:45:52] <andypugh> And in ja3?
[20:45:58] <alex_joni> it's a bit cleared up in ja3
[20:46:07] <alex_joni> as in teleop is working fine
[20:46:20] <andypugh> With soft limits?
[20:46:21] <alex_joni> the only thing missing in ja3 is per joint vel/accel limits
[20:46:39] <alex_joni> so ja3 should work as before for trivkins machines
[20:46:53] <alex_joni> but will probably violate joint accel restraints for nontrivkins
[20:47:02] <alex_joni> simply because that part isn't done, afaik
[20:47:27] <alex_joni> we (micges, me and a couple other I don't recall) discussed this quite a while ago
[20:48:10] <alex_joni> and one of the ways would be to simulate a move before it happens, and check if any of the joints reaches limits, and if they do, scale the whole move accordingly
[20:48:24] <alex_joni> at least that's how I've seen it done on robots
[20:48:36] <andypugh> That was the scheme I just came up with too.
[20:48:46] <micges> yep, on ja3 only joints limits left
[20:49:18] <andypugh> Well, actually, I was considering if joint_vel > joint_room * joint_acc then panic...
[20:49:20] <micges> teleop limits works correclty
[20:50:26] <andypugh> Did you see the query on the users list from someone with a gantry that isn't obeying teleop limits?
[20:50:58] <micges> yes
[20:51:58] <seb_kuzminsky> wow, i didnt know ja3 was so far along, that's great
[20:52:27] <andypugh> I am a bit puzzled as he is supposedly using
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/millkins.c and that appears to be a trivial kins (KINEMATICS_IDENTITY)
[20:52:58] <micges> there is about 10 production machines on ja3 in Poland
[20:53:36] <andypugh> Some in Latvia too. (Viesturs uses it)
[20:54:25] <micges> XYYZ, XB, XYYZC, XYC and rest are gantry's
[20:54:44] <micges> that's cool
[20:55:31] <micges> only thing is on most of them there is no access to any joint operations other than homing
[20:56:51] <andypugh> That seems reasonable. In fact I think it should be rather easier to set up an automatic switch to world-mode after homing.
[20:57:10] <andypugh> (ie an INI file entry, rather than HAL logic)
[20:59:01] <micges> yes
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[21:10:47] <alex_joni> seb_kuzminsky: ja3 was prepared for merging
[21:10:54] <alex_joni> but life happened ;)
[21:11:06] <seb_kuzminsky> if we had working teleop, would we still need free mode? maybe just for homing?
[21:12:38] <alex_joni> for homing it's joint mode
[21:12:59] <alex_joni> but trivkins machines actually jog in teleop
[21:13:08] <alex_joni> (in theory I mean)
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[21:25:41] <andypugh> OK, does anyone actually understand what Henricks problem is?
[21:26:08] <andypugh> I just tried running that skew-correct kins in a sim and it behaves 100% normally.
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[21:43:07] <cradek> no. the file matt pointed him to, which I wrote (and the one on that wiki page, which appears to be a copy of mine with my copyright header removed and slightly modified) are both KINEMATICS_NONE
[21:43:24] <cradek> so I don't know how or why he's getting into teleop mode at all
[21:43:47] <cradek> I suspect he is either mistaken about what code he is running, or has not clearly conveyed that information
[21:44:05] <andypugh> millkins.c ?
[21:44:09] <cradek> yes
[21:44:19] <cradek> original here:
http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/skewkins.c
[21:44:27] <andypugh> I seem to recall you creating that live here on IRC?
[21:45:10] <cradek> I wrote it one evening at emc fest 2010, because someone there asked me to
[21:45:14] <andypugh> Anyway, the link on the wiki page to millkins.c is a KINEMATICS_IDENTITY file.
[21:45:39] <cradek> yes, I know, and that's why, along with you, I don't understand how or why he's getting into teleop mode.
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[21:58:28] <andypugh> OK, I don't know why, but I just typed vi test.hal not nano test.hal. How do you get out of vi?
[21:58:52] <jepler> <esc>:wq<return>
[21:59:01] <andypugh> Obvious!
[21:59:06] <jepler> or :q! to exit without saving
[21:59:19] <jepler> as obvious as typing "vi" when you meant "nano"!
[21:59:40] <andypugh> I realise it was self-inflicted
[22:06:48] <andypugh> What are the benefits/pitfalls of having a hal function export a function-per-instance against one function for all instances?
[22:07:48] <cradek> if there's just one, you can't choose to put them in different threads, and you can't choose their run order
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[22:08:09] <cradek> if there's many, you have to remember to add them all
[22:08:49] <andypugh> It seems that comps typically have a funct per instance, and the older modules just one function.
[22:09:02] <andypugh> I think I will go with function per inst in this case
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[22:15:45] <andypugh> This is the 7i73 keyboard decoder. I wonder if it makes sense to add a function to it to generate scans and read columns?
[22:16:14] <andypugh> So that the same function can read arbitrary matrix keyboards rather than just ones fastened to a 7i73?
[22:17:01] <andypugh> 8mS latency in registering a press. Is that going to be noticable?
[22:19:45] <alex_joni> if you have func/instance you can attach to different threads, and run at different speeds
[22:20:22] <alex_joni> makes sense for an and2 comp, not so much for a NiXY driver
[22:21:17] <ve7it> 8ms is no problem.... 50-100ms gets noticeable for button pushes but is usable
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[22:22:07] <andypugh> I might do it then.
[22:38:52] <KimK> seb_kuzminsky: You probably have bigger fish to fry, but now the double "changelog" notices have moved to linuxcnc-dev and linuxcnc-doc-de and all the rest look normal.
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[23:33:56] <seb_kuzminsky> KimK: yeah i should probably pay some attention to the debian archives...
[23:34:05] * seb_kuzminsky chucks in on the list
[23:34:10] <seb_kuzminsky> *it
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