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[02:14:26] <mhaberler> I think John's latest 3.5.7 kernel is a go! works perfect for me on precise.
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[10:16:36] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chrisinnanaimo 05master dca9c36 06emc2 10configs/sim/gscreen_custom/industrial_handler.py 10src/emc/usr_intf/gscreen/gscreen.py * gscreen -sensitize only buttons when in override mode
[10:16:37] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chrisinnanaimo 05master b7c7dd7 06emc2 10src/emc/usr_intf/gscreen/gscreen.py * gscreen -set focus when onscreen keyboard is launched in MDI/auto
[10:16:41] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chrisinnanaimo 05master 7bd6154 06emc2 10lib/python/gladevcp/hal_mdihistory.py * gladevcp -clear the entry and grab focus after issuing a cmd
[10:16:48] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chrisinnanaimo 05master 72a4ea0 06emc2 10configs/sim/gscreen_custom/industrial.glade * gscreen config -fix missing button label in MDI - abort
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[13:08:12] <mhaberler> actually it looks like we'll be able to run John's 3.5.7 kernel and the new rtos branches on Lucid too, which should ease the pain switching distros just to try it
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[14:06:27] <cradek> that's great news
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[14:35:50] <skunkworks> logger[psha],
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[15:50:35] <riz_> In regards to NML, what is the difference between emcCommandBuffer and emcCommand?
[15:51:29] <riz_> I noticed that the first is of a CHANNEL type and the latter is of MSG type, but I am not understanding the difference in their uses and how they interact
[15:58:18] <jepler> emcCommandBuffer (the common name of a global variable in user interface programs) is the communication channel from a UI to task. Each communication channel has a name, and the name of this channel is the string "emcCommand"
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[15:59:59] <jepler> it is by agreeing on the channel name ("emcCommand", the second argument to the constructor of RCS_CMD_CHANNEL) that a UI can send a command to task. The name of the cariable (emcCommandBuffer) is unimportant.
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[16:02:27] <jepler> cariable = variable
[16:03:05] <pcw_home> is that a portable variable?
[16:07:10] <riz_> So then why do you have to declare and initialize both emcCommandBuffer (top of emctaskmain) and emcCommand (top of emctaskmain) if emc Command is just a name for emcCommandBuffer?
[16:08:14] <riz_> I see that each of the buffers created have names attached to them, but emcCommand is different. It is just declared as "static RCS_CMD_MSG * emcCommand = 0;"
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[18:27:49] <skunkworks> Installed a fresh copy of 12.04 on this amd system -> updated -> installed the new xemoni kernel per the wiki. Lost network access. it flashes something about amd micro code failed while booting
[18:31:57] <skunkworks> I will try to get more info
[18:34:25] <pcw_home> Yow!
[18:35:01] <skunkworks> eh - I seem to have some odd hardware here :)
[18:35:14] <micges> probably your ethernet driver is not loaded with xenomai kernel
[18:35:39] <micges> I've got same issue here with 10.04 rtai
[18:35:47] <skunkworks> unless it is deeper - It says it is connected...
[18:36:10] <zultron> Whoa, did the boot complete, at least?
[18:36:40] <zultron> And, what exactly is flashing, skunkworks ?
[18:37:40] <skunkworks> let me reboot...
[18:37:49] <skunkworks> yes - boots up fine
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[18:42:51] <zultron> Which ethernet driver, skunkworks ?
[18:43:10] <zultron> r8169, by chance? ;)
[18:44:00] <skunkworks> it is pretty flakey on booting... I can only write so fast so it says something like - failed to load amd-ucode-microcode-amd
[18:44:03] <skunkworks> I will look
[18:44:28] <zultron> Is the message not in dmesg?
[18:44:40] <zultron> Can you put the output of dmesg in a pastebin?
[18:47:17] <skunkworks> rtl8111/8168b
[18:48:16] <zultron> That's the NIC's chipset. Is the kernel loading the r8169 driver for it?
[18:48:21] <zultron> dmesg | grep r816
[18:54:08] <skunkworks> Getting dmesg -
http://pastebin.ca/2308189
[18:54:11] <zultron> The microcode issue can be researched using the keywords you captured, thanks!
[18:54:57] <skunkworks> [ 10.464477] microcode: failed to load file amd-ucode/microcode_amd.bin
[18:54:57] <skunkworks> [ 10.464498] microcode: CPU1: patch_level=0x03000027
[18:54:57] <skunkworks> [ 10.466364] microcode: failed to load file amd-ucode/microcode_amd.bin
[18:55:37] <zultron> Yep, found it. And this is the second report of problems with the r8169 driver.
[18:55:38] <skunkworks> hehe - looks like it is using r8169
[18:56:15] <zultron> I've had trouble with that driver on my RedHat system too with upstream kernels. It's a big problem.
[18:57:02] <skunkworks> I will throw this hardrive in a couple of older amd systems and see what happens...
[18:57:13] <zultron> Can you try installing the Ubuntu 3.5 kernel? I'd like to see if they fixed these problems.
[18:57:25] <zultron> Let me find a link....
[18:58:20] <skunkworks> how does that work? the nic worked before the xenomi kernel was installed.. it is a ubuntu issue?
[18:58:56] <jepler> >
[18:58:56] <jepler> As of 3.4 the kernel will autoload the microcode module, which will attempt to load the firmware for your CPU. If the firmware is not installed you will get this error.
[18:59:24] <jepler> but probably nobody has shipped you the CPU firmware file (which is going to be non-DFSG free even if it's redistributable which I have not determined)
[19:00:16] <jepler> it looks like this message is frequently seen in ubuntu 12.10 dmesg
[19:01:09] <zultron> sudo apt-get install linux-image-3.5.0-22-generic
[19:01:25] <skunkworks> oh - so I probably saw that before the realtime kernel install?
[19:01:36] <jepler> skunkworks: possibly
[19:01:43] <zultron> No, it's probably introduced with kernel 3.5.
[19:01:48] <zultron> You probably had 3.2 before.
[19:02:15] <zultron> Can you try installing the upstream linux 3.5 kernel?
[19:02:41] <skunkworks> sure
[19:03:32] <zultron> Thanks! If that works, I might be able to port their fixes to my packages, based on a vanilla kernel.
[19:03:49] <jepler> debian has
http://packages.debian.org/source/unstable/intel-microcode in non-free but I don't spot an amd-microcode package.
[19:04:10] <skunkworks> Do I have to re-apply the xenomi stuff?
[19:04:11] <jepler> .. but I think the microcode thing is unrelated to the network thing
[19:05:04] <zultron> Yeah, that's a separate issue. Does Debian ship a 3.5 kernel?
[19:05:04] <jepler> ah, there is amd64-microcode in wheezy
[19:06:02] <skunkworks> umm - I don't have network access - Can I boot a previous kernel to do this?
[19:06:07] <skunkworks> :)
[19:06:23] <jepler> zultron: they have 3.2 with quite a few backports. see the blog series that ends here:
http://womble.decadent.org.uk/blog/whats-in-the-linux-kernel-for-debian-70-wheezy-part-4.html
[19:07:19] <jepler> possibly relevant to us: part 3 says they have PREEMPT_RT
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[19:08:45] <zultron> Oh wow, that's very fresh info. And double wow, PREEMPT_RT!!!
[19:09:52] <jepler> imagine a world .. where you can run linuxcnc on any debian machine </movie trailer voice>
[19:10:38] <zultron> Maybe I should consider backing the packages down to 3.2. Xenomai can be combined with PREEMPT_RT in a single kernel, if there are matching patches for both. 3.2.21 is such a version.
[19:11:34] <zultron> Plus, I remember the beaglebone work is going on with a 3.2 kernel.
[19:12:43] <jepler> I'm so out of touch on all this
[19:13:07] <zultron> Me too, I'm having to grope my way through every step. Painful.
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[19:13:43] <zultron> Plus, having to do it on Debian, which I've never touched before....
[19:14:31] <jepler> I like debian, and debian packaging makes a lot of things easy, but kernel building ... ugh
[19:15:54] <zultron> I was initially excited about how easy to build kernels for Debian with make-kpkg, but once I started wanting customizations, it got painful real quick.
[19:17:08] <zultron> And packaging for any distro has its own set of ins and outs that can only be learned through experience. I already went through that with RH-like distros and don't want to do it again!
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[19:24:18] <skunkworks> zultron, can I reboot to a the original kernal then update to 3.5?
[19:24:33] <zultron> Yeah, sure.
[19:24:44] <zultron> Hard to update without network, huh?
[19:24:50] <skunkworks> yes ;)
[19:27:23] <skunkworks> stupid question - how do you get to the boot loader?
[19:27:39] <skunkworks> shift? esc?
[19:27:52] <skunkworks> *grub
[19:28:56] <zultron> Mmm, I think you can hit any key? I use the arrow keys.
[19:29:45] <skunkworks> heh - walked back over and it was paused at the grub... got it
[19:31:09] <skunkworks> installing 3.5
[19:31:18] <skunkworks> so - then what do I do?
[19:31:35] <zultron> Boot into the Ubuntu 3.5 and see if you have the same problems.
[19:31:43] <skunkworks> ok
[19:31:44] <zultron> Pastebin another dmesg, if you would.
[19:31:51] <skunkworks> sure
[19:32:21] <zultron> If they're gone, then I can figure out what the difference is and hopefully integrate fixes into my packages.
[19:32:39] <kwallace1> seb_kuzminsky , you mentioned a couple of days ago that pockets don't matter for non-random tool changing. I'm not sure I'm convinced. For my turret set up I'd like to be able to assign two or three tools to each of eight "pockets". I can handle this in a custom turret comp, but it seems it would be better to have this as part of LinuxCNC proper.
[19:34:00] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont understand what it means to have multiple tools in one pocket, but i have to go away for about an hour...
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[19:34:36] <kwallace1> How convenient:)
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[19:39:42] <skunkworks> zultron, no go...
http://pastebin.ca/2308202
[19:40:13] <skunkworks> wait - did I boot the right kernel?
[19:40:29] <zultron> Nope, same kernel. ;)
[19:40:48] <skunkworks> hold on.
[19:42:39] <zultron> Kernel should be called '3.5.0-22-generic' in the boot list, if my thinking is correct.
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[19:46:27] <skunkworks> yes it is
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[19:47:36] <zultron> Whew. I'm really unfamiliar with Deb.
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[19:48:40] <skunkworks> network seems to work
[19:48:42] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.ca/2308206
[19:50:01] <cradek> I very strongly recommend starting with the ubuntu kernel and patching that. since 2005, through much heartache, that is the only strategy that has ever worked for us, to make people's various random hardware tend to work right.
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[20:00:29] <zultron> Still have the microcode problem, but I guess that's ok.
[20:01:20] <zultron> cradek, I may end up doing that. The Xenomai + i-pipe patches apply with some fuzz to the ubuntu 3.5 kernel.
[20:03:03] <zultron> So I'll pull in the Ubuntu patches tonight and rebuild. Should be ready for testing tomorrow, if no hiccups.
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[20:05:16] <cradek> I should drag out some old hardware to test for you then :-)
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[20:05:19] <zultron> Thanks for the testing, skunkworks. Hopefully we can knock out this problem.
[20:05:47] <zultron> Yes, more testing, please!
[20:05:58] <cradek> but all my hardware is old and will probably work fine no matter what kernel you use.
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[20:10:37] <zultron> cradek, my worry about patching ubuntu's kernel is if Xenomai breaks, the Xenomai devs aren't going to want to help.
[20:10:59] <zultron> Any good ideas?
[20:11:34] <zultron> I don't know if the backports are broken out anywhere like they would do for the Fedora kernel packages. That would be handy.
[20:12:01] <cradek> all I can say to that is if there's a problem you might have to reproduce it on a vanilla kernel if they want you to.
[20:12:27] <zultron> Then backports that support specific hardware could be cherry-picked.
[20:13:20] <zultron> Hmm, that's a good point. So maybe two kernels should be built, a 'vanilla xenomai' and an 'ubuntu xenomai'.
[20:13:24] <cradek> I think it would be a nightmare to make those choices. the goal is to make a kernel that runs on all hardware the ubuntu kernel folks have already made work.
[20:14:25] <cradek> our practical experience is it works fine, and doesn't cause peculiar rtai breakages
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[20:14:45] <zultron> Yeah, it could be a nightmare. The PlanetCCRMA guy, who builds PREEMPT_RT packages for Fedora, solves it by applying patches that apply, and ditching ones that don't. I don't know how to break those out for Ubuntu in te same way, though.
[20:15:09] <cradek> I doubt these other systems are more invasive or fragile than rtai? but maybe they are.
[20:15:33] <cradek> yeah I don't know how to do that either. does your xenomai patch not apply as-is? badly?
[20:15:41] <zultron> Xenomai's based on the same ipipe patch, of course.
[20:16:01] <zultron> It does apply with fuzz, there may have been one easily-fixed failed hunk.
[20:16:21] <cradek> yay!
[20:17:02] <cradek> that scheme has worked for us so far...
[20:17:25] <zultron> So it sounds like it would be the least work to produce two kernels: an ubuntu-based one and a vanilla-based one. The ubuntu-based one should be normally used, but in case of problems, test on vanilla.
[20:17:54] <zultron> If the vanilla tests pass, then tell the user to buy some different hardware. :P
[20:19:00] <cradek> virtually all our users will use the kernel that's on the cd. only a very few users can give install a different kernel and run tests and give you useful reports.
[20:19:09] <cradek> s/give//
[20:19:46] <cradek> and the ones who can do that well are already right here helping you test :-)
[20:20:21] <zultron> Right, that's what I'd expect, mostly.
[20:21:05] <zultron> I haven't used the CD, but is it possible to select a kernel from a boot prompt?
[20:21:54] <cradek> do you mean after the install and after installing a second kernel? then definitely yes
[20:22:31] <cradek> I don't think you're going to be able to put more than one kernel on the live cd without nuking a lot of other stuff.
[20:22:47] <zultron> Oh, yeah, that's what I meant.
[20:23:23] <cradek> then sure. by default it doesn't show you the menu where you can choose the kernel, but if you hold the magic key you can get to it.
[20:23:52] <zultron> Yes, but nuking stuff isn't an option I'd like to consider.
[20:24:19] <cradek> yeah it sucks to try to decide what to delete. someone will complain at you no matter what.
[20:24:45] <zultron> There was talk about a 'live flash drive' that potentially provides the needed head room.
[20:24:52] <cradek> replacing their kernel with your patched one will cost no extra space
[20:25:09] <cradek> installing linuxcnc, git-core, build-dep certainly does cost :-/
[20:26:14] <cradek> livecd will still be 32bit I assume?
[20:26:44] <zultron> I'm not going to be the one to build it, so I can only speculate.
[20:26:59] <cradek> ah then you don't care about any of this
[20:27:25] <cradek> I might even be the unlucky one.
[20:27:35] <zultron> I do care, but there's just no way I can build that piece. Unless people want a Fedora-based one. :)
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[20:29:42] <cradek> heh, wonder if my old box boots from usb. probably not.
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[20:33:10] <zultron> I just remembered that legacy USB booting is really bad for latency. Never mind.
[20:39:50] <cradek> paolo reports he is still working on rtai on kernel 3.2 support (4 days ago)
[20:39:56] <cradek> so that's also good news
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[22:00:57] <zultron> Oh great, he's making the leap!
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[23:10:43] <skunkworks> mhaberler: I get this after following
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernelPackages then
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NewRTInstall for building linuxcnc
[23:10:56] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.ca/2308320
[23:11:47] <mhaberler> right now you still need to install kernel headers, this will go away but for now:
[23:12:11] <mhaberler> apt-get install linux-headers-3.5.7-xenomai-2.6.2.1
[23:12:55] <mhaberler> your box doesnt have the network problem it seems? (realtek 8169)
[23:15:46] <mhaberler> you might also net to 'apt-get install libudev-dev'
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[23:19:14] <mhaberler> working?
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[23:24:44] <skunkworks> ok - sorry - will try it tomorrow (it is at work)
[23:24:58] <mhaberler> sure
[23:25:02] <mhaberler> cu
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