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[00:04:31] <seb_kuzminsky> kwallace1: it's in the definition of the class of self
[00:05:00] <kwallace1> "def is_lathe(self): return self.lathe_view_option" is in gremlin.py. I read this as: define is_lathe as a function that does nothing and returns a variable. Am I close?
[00:08:07] <seb_kuzminsky> sounds right to me
[00:08:24] <seb_kuzminsky> self has a lathe_view_option variable, probably set somethere else, maybe from an ini setting?
[00:08:37] <seb_kuzminsky> is_lathe() is an accessor function for that variable
[00:08:58] <seb_kuzminsky> this is a design pattern, it's useful for hiding the implementation of how self knows whether it's a lathe or not
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[00:10:49] <kwallace1> I think I found the links:
http://www.wallacecompany.com/tmp/is_lathe.txt
[00:11:32] <seb_kuzminsky> looks right to me
[00:11:35] <seb_kuzminsky> got to go, talk to you later
[00:12:37] <kwallace1> Thank you.
[00:13:34] <kwallace1> I missed one bit:
http://www.wallacecompany.com/tmp/is_lathe.txt
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[00:32:35] <kwallace1> seb_kuzminski , I copied the is_lathe def and links for is_rear_tpl (rear tool post lathe) and it works. Wha Hoo.
[00:35:03] <kwallace1> Oops, I mean seb_kuzminsky .
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[00:51:16] <JT-Shop> kwallace1: you got the back tools to work?
[00:55:42] <kwallace1> The X axis switch of North being +X worked before I got started. It turns out the Gremlin presentation has issues. I just figured out how to play with glcanon.py to hopefully fix these issues.
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[00:59:05] <kwallace1> I got the X pointer to point up:
http://www.wallacecompany.com/tmp/XZ_axis_pointers-3.png
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[01:00:58] <kwallace1> This shows the proper radius comp but has the tool tip on the wrong side of the control point:
http://www.wallacecompany.com/tmp/Screenshot-12.png
[01:01:34] <kwallace1> But I think I found were this is handled in glcanon.py .
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[03:06:39] <seb_kuzminsky> kwallace1: nice!
[03:07:21] <seb_kuzminsky> this is maybe a personal preference thing, but i'd prefer the accessor to be called "is_rear_toolpost_lathe()" rather than "is_rear_tpl()", because i'd never remember what "tpl" means if i ever came across that code
[03:08:00] <kwallace1> Sounds good to me.
[03:09:10] <seb_kuzminsky> "optimize for folk reading the code" -- Rob Collins ;-)
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[03:28:05] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: someone should have pounded that into me before I wrote a line of axis, because have you looked at some of that code?
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[03:43:25] <cradek> yeah, the only good things about that program are how well it works and all the useful work people have done using it. otherwise, it totally sucks.
[03:43:56] <cradek> its code is not the least bit suitable for perusing with a drink in hand
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[04:00:07] <skunkworks> folk reading the code? is that like peter paul and mary?
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[15:18:05] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: :-)
[15:18:30] <seb_kuzminsky> i only use axis every time i power on my mill, and every time i develop gcode with the simulator :-)
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[17:05:28] <kwallace> Can anyone confirm that the GEOMETRY tag in the .ini file only affects rotary axes, as the manual seems to indicate? So far, I have been using -XZ as a means to flag our rear tool lathe configuration, but this may change the scope of the GEOMETRY tag. -X is used to imply that the X direction is reversed, but since X is a linear axis, it may have an unknown affect on X or other rotary axes if used. I've considered using the LATHE tag to cover
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[17:21:07] <cradek> kwallace: cut off at LATHE tag to cover...
[17:23:13] <seb_kuzminsky> any objections to this change?
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=fd56dd90f13488bd19c0af82fd8b1225b8ca66ad
[17:26:05] <kwallace> cradek , I'm guessing you mean I should use LATHE = 1 then add something like LATHE = 1r for rear tool? My guess is that the tag is parsed up to the 1 with the rest ignored?
[17:26:39] <cradek> kwallace: sorry, I only meant that the long message you typed was cut off at that point and we couldn't see the rest.
[17:27:16] <kwallace> Oops. ... LATHE tag to cover the rear tool option but values other than LATHE = 1 may also have unknown consequences. Any comments would be appreciated, especially from people with real tool lathes.
[17:28:09] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: no objection here
[17:29:48] <jepler> kwallace: AXIS parses the current [DISPLAY]LATHE setting like this:
[17:29:48] <jepler> lathe = bool(inifile.find("DISPLAY", "LATHE"))
[17:30:09] <jepler> which in practice means that all non-empty values are treated the same (enable lathe mode) and empty or unspecified is treated as disable lathe mode.
[17:30:55] <jepler> there is at least some documentation that suggests to set it to the string value TRUE
[17:32:06] <kwallace> That makes sense too. now that you mention it.
[17:32:23] <jepler> for me, backrwards compatibility is paramount. A new variable that controls front vs rear tool when lathe mode is enabled via [DISPLAY]LATHE seems to have the least chance to negatively impact existing configs
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[17:33:41] <jepler> On [DISPLAY]GEOMETRY and minus signs: The "-" symbol affects the next letter in the GEOMETRY specification and its effect on both linear and rotary axes is unlikely to change
[17:34:02] <kwallace> Since the rear tool configuration pretty much just reverses the sense of the X axis, it seems more of a geometry problem.
[17:36:18] <jepler> I'm not immediately sure whether specifiny a geometry of -XZ will change everything that should be flipped around
[17:36:25] <jepler> tool shapes, the coordinate system markers, ...
[17:37:42] <kwallace> Adding - to X might imply that - could be applied to other linear axes, but so far I'm only checking for the occurrence of "-XZ".
[17:38:22] <jepler> i.e., you'll have special code that is enabled based on the geometry string being exactly "-XZ"?
[17:38:39] <kwallace> So far, yes.
[17:38:44] <jepler> that doesn't thrill me
[17:39:44] <jepler> for starters, Z-X would give a backplot exactly like -XZ
[17:39:52] <jepler> but now it wouldn't behave the same in some other ways...
[17:41:17] <jepler> bbl
[17:41:25] <kwallace> If using a generic -(axis), I'd have to consider all the possibilities and accommodate them.
[17:46:08] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03seb 052.5-doc-anchors 5746b66 06emc2 10docs/ 03html/linuxcnc.css 10src/Submakefile 04src/linuxcnc.css * doc build: make CSS and JS stuff external to the docs
[17:46:53] <seb_kuzminsky> ok, that's the second docs commit that i want to push but that i feel a little unsure about
[17:46:57] <seb_kuzminsky> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=5746b663a5f80fe8ffd265a5c378b3bffae61e71
[17:47:22] <kwallace> I might just create a new LATHE_REAR_TOOL = True tag but adding a new tag for every shade of configuration could get messy. For me, it's the easy way out.
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[18:55:21] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: have you installed a package to see if the installed docs still work?
[18:56:08] <seb_kuzminsky> err no
[18:56:11] <seb_kuzminsky> i should try that
[18:57:22] <cradek> we install both some html and some pdfs
[18:57:47] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah
[18:57:58] <seb_kuzminsky> hm, i haven't looked at the pdfs at all
[18:58:08] <seb_kuzminsky> it's building right now, i'll test and report back
[18:58:38] <seb_kuzminsky> ooh, debdiff looks like a neat package
[18:58:46] <seb_kuzminsky> compares the list of files in two debian packages
[18:58:57] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: yeah it's very handy
[18:59:22] <kwallace> Just in case it might be of interest:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Gremlin
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[20:01:22] <seb_kuzminsky> our docs.deb dont include the html, so that's not an issue
[20:01:39] <seb_kuzminsky> the pdf links in v2.5_branch take you to the wrong place, just like the html links on chrome
[20:01:42] <cradek> I guess I saw the quickref is included
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[20:02:17] <seb_kuzminsky> for example, look at the M-codes" chapter of the User guide, and click on M60 in the table at the beginning of the chapter
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[20:02:57] <seb_kuzminsky> in 2.5 it takes you to just after the M60 section title, in the 2.5-doc-anchors branch it puts the M60 section title right at the top
[20:03:00] <seb_kuzminsky> so that's good
[20:03:17] <cradek> cool
[20:07:54] <seb_kuzminsky> gcode.html in linuxcnc.deb looks fine
[20:08:55] <seb_kuzminsky> ah, except here's a slight bug
[20:09:31] <seb_kuzminsky> gcode.html ships with relative links to all the other html docs
[20:10:03] <seb_kuzminsky> except when it notices that you accessed it via http, it rewrites all those links to point to
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html
[20:10:21] <seb_kuzminsky> which is fine when it's the gcode.html from master, but it's probably wrong when it's the gcode.html from v2.5_branch
[20:10:27] <cradek> aha
[20:10:37] <seb_kuzminsky> but that's not something i changed, that's a pre-existing issue
[20:10:43] <cradek> I agree it's wrong, and I agree it's what I see in my 2.5.1 installed version
[20:11:01] <jepler> I wish we'd solve it by shipping html documentation but long ago we had a shooting war over it and "ship pdf docs" won
[20:11:08] <jepler> I don't even remember why, or who I was fighting
[20:11:23] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd be happy to ship html docs along with pdf
[20:11:29] <seb_kuzminsky> i wonder which side i was fighting on last time
[20:11:37] <cradek> that's way too big a change for 2.5
[20:12:03] <cradek> but I'll help shoot if you want to fight about it for master
[20:12:14] <jepler> I don't have strong enough feelings about it
[20:12:47] <jepler> particularly as the asciidocs are more readable in less than the lyx was .. and the lyx era was when I fought over this
[20:13:05] <seb_kuzminsky> html docs (all languages) is 28 MB
[20:13:19] <seb_kuzminsky> pdfs (all languages) is 50 megs
[20:13:28] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: really? wow
[20:13:35] <jepler> is that counting compressed sizes or uncompressed sizes?
[20:13:45] <jepler> du size, I'm assuming?
[20:14:18] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, that's "as generated", uncompressed, by du's reckoning
[20:14:26] <seb_kuzminsky> 16 megs for one language and all pics
[20:14:33] <jepler> that seems like a good argument right there for html in packages
[20:14:44] <seb_kuzminsky> because it's small you mean?
[20:14:52] <jepler> I think the 'other side' argument amounted to: docs are for printing, and pdf is better for printing than html
[20:14:59] <jepler> yes, installed size and download size are both important
[20:15:01] <seb_kuzminsky> hahahahahahahahaha
[20:15:10] <seb_kuzminsky> hahaha "docs are for printing" you're killing me
[20:15:19] <cradek> and yeah, that's the other other side's exact argument
[20:15:23] <jepler> .. so you can see that we had a fundamental difference in worldview and it was hard to have meaningful dialog
[20:16:07] <seb_kuzminsky> "printers are for salvaging printer cables and steppers and ground rods from" ;-)
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[20:17:28] <cradek> a guy at the music circle frequently tries to use his ipad to display sheet music. it's very funny to watch.
[20:18:26] <jepler> there's something truthy about that idea
[20:19:57] <cradek> yeah, if you had an aversion to paper, $600 to burn, and no hard feelings about using jailed hardware and software, it might seem like a good idea
[20:20:07] <cradek> might
[20:20:17] <jepler> no no
[20:20:21] <jepler> you're not listening to me
[20:20:33] * cradek waves his arms
[20:21:03] <jepler> the truthy part is that this artifact with an internally-lit display around the size of a sheet of paper might be a good device to display something you might put on a sheet of paper
[20:22:00] <jepler> that there must be some way to use it to make it easy to find the music you want right then, to make it always show the relevant bars of that music, and so on, as a SMOP
[20:22:45] <cradek> a foot-pedal-controlled page turn would be awesome
[20:23:00] <seb_kuzminsky> as a non-musician, i think it would be cool if it listened to you play and scrolled the sheets of music so you wouldnt have to
[20:23:02] <jepler> sure, why not
[20:23:30] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: I guess that's how traditional page-turners do it
[20:23:57] <jepler> I'm pretty sure some of them also wait for a nod from the performer
[20:23:58] <cradek> it could digitize the sound of your playing and send it to india, where someone would send the turn-page signal back at the right time.
[20:24:10] <cradek> it's foolproof
[20:24:15] <jepler> but either way it's all SMOP territory since there's a microphone and a front-facing camera
[20:24:45] <cradek> sorry, stupid tangent
[20:25:02] <seb_kuzminsky> if it notices you play the wrong note, it plays a video of a monkey flinging rotten fruit at you
[20:25:06] <jepler> cradek: If I recall where we got derailed, I think you were saying that it's not totally nutty to want to print documentation?
[20:25:10] <andypugh> seb_kuzminsky: Write the App, become rich:
https://itunes.apple.com/nl/course/coding-together-developing/id593208016?l=en
[20:25:12] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: nah, it just puts a red sqiggle on the score
[20:25:25] <cradek> haha
[20:26:23] <seb_kuzminsky> i guess if i had my druthers, i'd want both html and pdf on my cnc machines, because why not
[20:26:49] <jepler> cradek: and you know that on your $400 Nexus 10 you can put open source versions of android like AOSP or Cyanogen, which you can build from source yourself
[20:26:52] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd never print either, but it's easier for me to look at html than pdf
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[20:27:25] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: there are the people who put 2KB flash ROMs in a socket on their motherboard and wish linuxcnc would install on that .. but I guess we have separate doc packages now, so we wouldn't serve them any worse than before
[20:27:33] <seb_kuzminsky> tangentially, i keep typing "man gcode" each time i have a question, right before i open that gcode.html page
[20:27:48] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: sure, with the split packages that's no problem
[20:28:03] <seb_kuzminsky> i think i'd prefer to have all docs in one package, rather than splitting pdfs into one and html into one
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[20:29:39] <seb_kuzminsky> it was a drive-by skunking
[20:30:40] <skunkworks_> reset my cable modem.. now I can get to where I needed to go.. Go figure
[20:32:01] <jepler> how many bits of entropy are there in a gram of average matter at 300K?
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[22:08:39] <PCW> cradek with error-previous-target set, you get a bang on index during homing (so the index enable edge probably needs pipelining as well)
[22:08:59] <cradek> darnit!
[22:09:17] <cradek> that means I'll probably have to read and understand the code or something
[22:09:22] <cradek> thank you for testing it
[22:10:12] <PCW> did it both ways many time, had a actual musician listen to it...
[22:10:19] <cradek> other than that, does it tune up correctly? do you think the fix is adequate?
[22:10:51] <PCW> Yes it fixes the big ferror if you use integral term issue
[22:11:35] <cradek> well that pleases me
[22:12:23] <PCW> Nice to always tune to minimum ferror
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[22:15:06] <PCW> also this fix makes the paths of pid loops with and without integral term equivalent (always track last position)
[22:15:08] <PCW> assuming error-previous-target is set for tunings with enough integral term to track velocity
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[22:22:07] <PCW> All this trouble with index sort of indicates there should have be a spilt between hardware positions (never any steps)
[22:22:09] <PCW> and machine positions early on, though I guess hardware that clears the encoder counter on index is a problem
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