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[09:14:08] <cncbasher> jt-shop-chester88 > read your messages , will recheck what happens and report
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[14:15:22] <Al_Smt> how much of a pain in the butt would it be to add one more parameter to the "home_latch_vel" to accept a distance to travel at search_vel then slow to latch_vel to speed up the homing process? for me it takes 10 min to home accurately as the switches I have
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Sensors_-z-_Encoders/Limit_Switches/Double-Insulated_%28PBT%29_Limit_Switches_%28AAP,_ABP_Series%29/Side_Rotary_Lever_with
[14:15:23] <Al_Smt> _Polyamide_Roller_Actuator/AAP2T41Z11 use like a 0.3" travel to reset the switch
[14:19:33] <andypugh> Your latch velocity can probably afford to be rather faster. Calculate how far the machine travels in 1mS at the latch rate.
[14:21:48] <andypugh> Do you have encoders with index? Homing to index can allow much faster latching. It is then a question of how far your machine travels in 20uS at latch velocity. If you have a Mesa card doing the encoder counting is it how far the machine travels in 100nS.
[14:23:04] <Al_Smt> if set it faster the best I can do is say homing to +or - .003-.005"
[14:23:13] <JT-Shop> the link seems to be broken
[14:23:32] <Al_Smt> no
[14:23:42] <JT-Shop> gave me a 404
[14:23:47] <andypugh> It got split over two lines
[14:23:56] <Al_Smt> steppers
[14:23:57] <JT-Shop> ah
[14:24:19] <JT-Shop> then it is broken in two :0
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[14:25:01] <andypugh> http://tinyurl.com/3udh2nb
[14:25:59] <andypugh> Al_Smt: Any spare pins to use an opto-flag as the home, and leave the high-reliability switches as limits?
[14:26:55] <JT-Shop> maximum switching freq is 0.5 seconds for that switch
[14:26:55] <Al_Smt> not really, parallel ports
[14:27:40] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I doubt that is how long it takes to switch, though.
[14:28:12] <JT-Shop> yea, but might not be a good candidate for a homing switch
[14:29:02] <andypugh> Al_Smt: Have you tried a rapid-on, rapid-off, slower-on homing config? That might give a more consistent actuation at a higher latch speed.
[14:29:19] <Al_Smt> yes
[14:29:50] <Al_Smt> search and latch vel?
[14:30:31] <andypugh> You can home and latch in the same direction (ie latching is to break, not make)
[14:31:24] <Al_Smt> yep but the switch to make and break has a travel of .003"
[14:31:24] <andypugh> (second picture here)
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_homing.html
[14:31:57] <andypugh> Yes, but perhaps the switch has consistent make, and inconsistent break.
[14:32:31] <andypugh> So, if you rapid search, rapid off, then slow latch, you might get a better latch at a higher latch speed than you donow.
[14:33:33] <Al_Smt> It still looks for the switch on either direction
[14:33:57] <Al_Smt> to know when to change dir
[14:34:02] <andypugh> Yes, but if it does it all faster, you save time
[14:34:25] <andypugh> I am also wondering how good the concentricity of the roller is.
[14:34:53] <Al_Smt> not really because its the latch vel length that kills the time
[14:35:24] <andypugh> I don't know if people regularly make use of homing as a reference anyway. I pretty much always repeat the touch-off after a machine restart, so the homing accuracy isn't critical.
[14:36:22] <andypugh> Yes, and I am suggesting that the alternative sequence might allow you to latch at a higher speed.
[14:36:58] <andypugh> What is your latch velocity? Is the switch internally debounced?
[14:38:10] <Al_Smt> around .1
[14:38:33] <andypugh> 0.1 in/sec?
[14:38:58] <andypugh> So why does it take 10 mins to travel 0.3"?
[14:39:56] <Al_Smt> per min
[14:40:39] <andypugh> In that case you should home with 0.000002" accuracy
[14:41:14] <Al_Smt> I do just takes 8 mins
[14:41:53] <andypugh> Well, you don't _need_ 0.000002" accuracy, so speed up the latch
[14:42:23] <andypugh> How accurately do your fixtures locate the work?
[14:43:07] <Al_Smt> its more about restarting the same part
[14:43:23] <andypugh> There is no point worrying about a homing accuracy greater than your fixture accuracy. And if you are clamping parts to the bed, there is no point worrying about it at all
[14:43:48] <andypugh> Ah, you expect to restart the same part?
[14:43:55] <Al_Smt> yes
[14:44:10] <andypugh> Just leave the PC on?
[14:45:42] <Al_Smt> ;)
[14:46:20] <andypugh> You say that at 0.1 in/min latch velocity you get an accuracy of 0.000002". You also say that at an undisclosed faster latch velocity you get an accuracy of 0.004". Have you tried an intermediate velocity?
[14:47:01] <Al_Smt> I dont' think it thats good
[14:47:20] <Al_Smt> more like .0005
[14:47:36] <andypugh> However, if _I_ am trying to pick up a part-completed job again, I _always_ touch off to the part. DTI round a bore, or edge-finder to an edge.
[14:49:35] <Al_Smt> I just would like speed up my homing process
[14:52:09] <andypugh> Then you have three options 1) Speed up the velocity and accept lower accuracy 2) Change the switches for more repeatable / lower travel ones 3) Download the source code and change EMC2.
[14:53:30] <andypugh> I still think you should try the alternative homing sequence, though. I think you should find that the switch is more consistent when turning on than off, which means you can latch faster.
[14:53:51] <andypugh> You can also home all your axes at the same time, unless they all share all homes and limits.
[14:54:56] <Al_Smt> I do it both ways on two different axis and they are shared home pins
[14:55:49] <andypugh> If you want 0.0001 accuracy, you should be able to get that at 5 in/min latch speed if the switch is consistent.
[14:56:41] <Al_Smt> no way
[14:58:30] <andypugh> Why not? The home switch is polled every mS, 0.0001" / 1mS = 5in/min
[14:59:25] <andypugh> (I am not entirely sure that the home switches aren't polled in the base thread anyway, in which case it is every 30uS or thereabouts.
[15:01:06] <Al_Smt> just from trial and error so to speak
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[15:05:32] <andypugh> I know _you_ can't, but I don't think the problem is in the software. Why not try latching in the other direction?
[15:06:51] <Al_Smt> its still the distance from open to closed at latch_vel that kills me
[15:06:59] <andypugh> The datasheet suggests that the switch is available with "snap action" and "slow action" contacts. "snap" seems to mean 3mS. I hate to think how slow the slow ones are.
[15:07:40] <Al_Smt> the distance is the same in either dir
[15:09:43] <andypugh> Yes, and twice as far if you have to back off and on again.
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[15:10:29] <Al_Smt> you lost me there?
[15:10:42] <andypugh> But the inconsistency is _not_ due to the latch speed and emc2, it is something to do with the switch.
[15:11:38] <andypugh> Do you understand what I mean when I am talking about a different latch sequence? Did you follow the link?
[15:12:20] <andypugh> You are (I believe) latching on switch-release. I am suggesting latching on switch-actuate.
[15:12:53] <andypugh> ie, rapid onto the switch, rapid off the switch, slow back on, and latch the home.
[15:12:55] <Al_Smt> yes I do and I have axes that do it both ways
[15:13:11] <andypugh> OK, and the switch point is equally inconsistent in both cases?
[15:13:22] <Al_Smt> yes
[15:13:48] <andypugh> Well, then something is wrong. (but you spotted that)
[15:14:19] <andypugh> Do you have a HAL debounce function set up? Is it perhaps in the wrong thread?
[15:14:29] <Al_Smt> no
[15:15:24] <andypugh> So, you reckon you have 0.005" accuracy at 0.1 in/min latch speed?
[15:15:41] <andypugh> Sorry, 0.0005" at 0.1"/min?
[15:15:57] <Al_Smt> no .0005 at .1
[15:16:24] <Al_Smt> no or yes*
[15:16:47] <andypugh> In that case, something in your system is taking 0.3 seconds to switch. That's just ludicrous.
[15:18:05] <andypugh> Do you have an oscillosope? It would be interesting to see what the switch output is doing. Do you have debounce caps somewhere?
[15:19:02] <Al_Smt> no but I do run all the the switches trough a and gate
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[15:22:15] <andypugh> Is it a very slow one?
[15:22:40] <andypugh> (wiring them all in series through the NC contacts would have been easier)
[15:22:51] <Al_Smt> don't remember the specs on the chip
[15:25:23] <andypugh> You really ought to be able to latch a lot faster than you do, even though you have long-travel switches.
[15:28:24] <Al_Smt> I have been getting along with two configs one to home and one for homed after restarting
[15:29:17] <Al_Smt> anyway I have to run thanks for your ear
[15:29:59] <andypugh> No problem. I hate to say, looking at the price of those switches, but I don't think they are right for the job.
[15:31:44] <Al_Smt> maybe but you would think the mechanical action would be the same place every time
[15:34:40] <andypugh> No, I wouldn't think that, to be honest. I am always surprised when it is.
[15:35:28] <andypugh> I think they might be internally damped to prevent contacts bouncing with vibration etc.
[15:37:04] <Al_Smt> i'll have to try and test for trip accuracy
[15:37:33] <Al_Smt> and get back
[15:38:42] <Al_Smt> i wonder if i could use hal scope for that
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[15:46:07] <andypugh> Yes. As long as you are not actually homing, and have the switch disconnected from the limit input in HAL. (you can delsig it in the machine -> show hal config window)
[15:47:06] <andypugh> Then jog on and off the switch looking at the axis position and the switch state in Halscope. (trigger halscope on the switch edge, with a pretrigger, and compare the axis position when it triggers)
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[16:36:33] <CIA-11> EMC: 03andypugh 07v2.5_branch * r0e20170bc95a 10/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/ (hm2_pci.c hm2_pci.h hostmot2.c pins.c): Merge branch '5i25' into v2.5_branch
[16:36:38] <CIA-11> EMC: 03andypugh 07v2.5_branch * r9c81c5b1b1e8 10/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/ (hm2_pci.c hm2_pci.h hostmot2.c pins.c): Add support for Mesa 5i21, 5i25 and 4i69 FPGA cards.
[16:40:55] <andypugh> If anyone can explain why that merge got pushed too, I will try to avoid doing the same thing again in the future. (it appears unimportant, luckily)
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[16:43:14] <psha> maybe you have non-ff merge?
[16:44:20] <andypugh> It basically seems blank. No new branches in the repo, no files changed by the commit
[16:45:27] <andypugh> I did the --dry-run and the git log to see what was about to happen, and didn't realise that the merge was separate from the commit.
[16:56:45] <automata> hi andy
[16:57:02] <automata> are there any instructions on how to make a liveCD for emc2?
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[17:54:56] <JT-Shop> I've seen some by googling
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[19:25:26] <archivist> JT-Shop, I saw a possible question about ratchet wheels
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[23:15:28] <cradek_> andypugh: if you had pulled v2.5_branch to make sure it was up to date before doing the git am with pcw's patch, you would have avoided that merge
[23:16:08] <cradek_> also, you could have done git pull --rebase after applying pcw's patch to move it "on top" of the other changes you pull
[23:16:19] <cradek_> either way it's harmless, the merge is no problem
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[23:22:57] <andypugh> I think I did do a pull, but probably before the merge. And I didn't do the rebase.
[23:23:23] <CIA-11> EMC: 03cradek 07master * r9c81c5b1b1e8 10/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/ (hm2_pci.c hm2_pci.h hostmot2.c pins.c): Add support for Mesa 5i21, 5i25 and 4i69 FPGA cards.
[23:23:24] <CIA-11> EMC: 03cradek 07master * r0e20170bc95a 10/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/ (hm2_pci.c hm2_pci.h hostmot2.c pins.c): Merge branch '5i25' into v2.5_branch
[23:23:25] <CIA-11> EMC: 03cradek 07master * r486964eec31f 10/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/ (hm2_pci.c hm2_pci.h hostmot2.c pins.c): Merge branch 'v2.5_branch'
[23:24:06] <cradek> I assume what you did was this: git am pcw.patch; git push [it fails because you're not up to date]; git pull [creating this merge]; git push [succeeds and all is well]
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