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[00:30:17] <KimK> For docs work: are G84 (right hand tapping), G87 (boring), G88 (back boring), still unimplemented?
[00:41:02] <KimK> Also, I suspect something is wrong with the docs build scripts. I have some minor errors during make that I'd like to fix, but when I grep for the source of the errors, it seems to lead to .lyx files, I thought those were entirely unused now? Any advice appreciated.
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[00:52:13] <jepler> right- and left-hand rigid tapping are both accomplished with G33.1. The direction of the thread depends on the direction of the spindle (M3 vs M4) at the start of the rigid tap.
[00:57:21] <KimK> OK, thanks, I'll see if that's mentioned anywhere. On G84-87-88, I just wondered if there was anything new I needed to write into the "unimplemented" sections. And on the error I mentioned, hold off, maybe not. It was pointing to a .lyx file because I was ignoring case. So I withdraw my script problem allegation for now.
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[01:31:09] <KimK> jepler: How difficult would it be to come up one font size on the docs pdf generation? I'd like to have about the same size as we had, if possible. Did you and psha spend a lot of time tweaking and found that the same size font didn't work out? Is that why it's a little smaller?
[01:38:26] <jepler> KimK: no idea to be honest
[01:40:29] <KimK> OK, thanks. I'm looking at the docs Makefile now. I have no idea if that's where I should be looking. Maybe I'll learn something.
[01:44:42] <jepler> I think pdf generation still goes through latex
[01:45:53] <jepler> if so the question is what to add to get 12pt into the documentstyle declaration
[01:45:56] <jepler> the internet won't tell me yet
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[01:56:36] <jepler> ugh, unfortunately for the americans in the house, the current pdfs are laid out for A4 paper
[01:56:50] <SWPadnos> I hate that
[01:57:02] <SWPadnos> tried to print something, and the stupid printer said it was out of paper
[01:57:11] <SWPadnos> silly UK program had defaulted to A4 prints
[02:01:42] <KimK> To avoid "scale to fit", I've seen mention of a "universal" format, where it's laid out as narrow (width) as fits A4, and as short (height) as fits english 8.5x11. Would that help?
[02:02:50] <jepler> waste part of everybody's paper? that sounds like the best possible solution.
[02:03:09] <KimK> Ha, well, "whaddya gonna do?"
[02:04:32] <cradek> stop printing stuff?
[02:04:43] <jepler> coddle the americans and assume that everyone else is smart enough to figure it out?
[02:04:59] <cradek> ha
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[02:05:06] <archivist> no A4 is THE size these days
[02:05:12] <jepler> it's probably only the americans that think they need to sacrifice 3 reams of paper before they can use emc anyway
[02:05:32] <archivist> I printed out once :)
[02:05:54] <cradek> waah my printouts are so out of date waaaaah
[02:06:08] <KimK> A person loses the clickable chapter links by printing, but some will want to, I suppose. And speaking of those chapter links, those don't seem be working either. The table of contents links work, but in the text they all point to "page i", the cover.
[02:07:35] <skunkworks> I printed out the emc manual once. Don't think I ever used it. Shame shame shame
[02:10:27] <jepler> - --dblatex-opts "-P doc.publisher.show=0 -P latex.output.revhistory=0 -s $(DOC_SRCDIR)/emc2.sty"
[02:10:31] <jepler> + --dblatex-opts "-P doc.publisher.show=0 -P latex.output.revhistory=0 -P latex.class.options=twoside,12pt,letterpaper -s $(DOC_SRCDIR)/emc2.sty"
[02:10:37] <jepler> I'm going to give you this ^^ and then walk away from the discussion
[02:10:45] <jepler> that *does* successfully increase the font size to be more similar to the 2.4 manuals
[02:11:10] <jepler> but it does *not* get letter-size prints; pdflatex ignores the letterpaper and gives a4 anyway
[02:12:00] <KimK> OK, thanks, I'll try it and see how it works out.
[02:12:25] <jepler> as far as I could tell from looking around, twoside was the default, so it should be included there .. but maybe not
[02:12:28] <jepler> 'night guys
[02:12:42] <KimK> Thanks, goodnight
[02:13:11] <KimK> Hi Sam. Remind me, how many tools in your K&T toolchain?
[02:13:46] <skunkworks> 60
[02:15:44] <skunkworks> KimK: finally getting the decking in.
http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/decking.jpg
[02:15:59] <KimK> So you have to keep a few tools (4-5?) empty for now? Until the tooltable size limit is overcome?
[02:16:17] <skunkworks> heh
[02:16:57] <KimK> Ha, yes, that will be nice to not fall into the pit.
[02:17:45] <skunkworks> tool change limit is not an issue at the moment.. but I had thought that was not an issue anymore. But I could be wrong
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[02:19:09] <skunkworks> or maybe it was easy to change? It has been a while.
[02:20:45] <KimK> I think it's still to be addressed, I was told it required a lot of changes to the NML message protocol (was it?) to get the number of tool table entries above 56.
[02:21:10] <skunkworks> I vaguely remember that..
[02:21:46] <KimK> How's the big lathe project, any news there?
[02:21:50] <skunkworks> but really - I doubt we would be running programs that used more than 56 tools - so I could just have multible tool tables if it was a problem
[02:21:58] <skunkworks> KimK: nothing yet.
[02:23:49] <KimK> And the fact that you have the tool rings to fall back on makes all your other problems go away.
[02:25:11] <KimK> How far did you get on the lathe, what's next?
[02:25:26] <skunkworks> other than ripping out the old control - nothhing
[02:26:02] <SWPadnos> I'm suspicious that the 56-tool limit went away some time around when the new style tool tables (with all the offsets in them) came about
[02:26:05] <SWPadnos> or it got a lot worse
[02:26:07] <skunkworks> dad has been really cleaning things up. getting rid of a lot of stuff. really starting to open the shop up.
[02:26:38] <SWPadnos> IIRC, 56 was chosen so that all the tool information could be put into one NML message - it was the buffer size that decided the limit
[02:27:02] <cradek> yes - you can change the max, rebuild, then increase the nml buffer size
[02:27:07] <SWPadnos> but since there's a lot more information now, either (a) you can only have about 20 tools now or (b) the tool info is sent individually
[02:27:20] <cradek> if you don't mind running a custom build
[02:27:30] <cradek> I don't know what the limit is - we keep adjusting it
[02:27:40] <cradek> 64 bit builds are worse too, I think
[02:27:54] <SWPadnos> heh, bigger ints = fewer per buffer
[02:28:18] <skunkworks> I already am running head - well from a month or 2 ago.
[02:28:20] <KimK> SWPadnos, cradek: I did not change anything about that in my recent editing, I've left all the "56" stuff in place.
[02:28:28] <SWPadnos> there was some discussion about sending individual tool info or something, to get around that particular limit
[02:30:10] <cradek> yeah it needs a rework of some kind. mhaberler is pondering it I think.
[02:30:16] <KimK> Is there a chance it could have issues on a smaller tool changer? 16? 24? 48?
[02:30:39] <cradek> 16 works :-)
[02:30:59] <KimK> Ha, good for you, thanks for testing!
[02:31:56] <KimK> OK, well, I guess just leave the "56" stuff for the next round of editing, then?
[02:32:18] <SWPadnos> unless you're sure it's changed, that sounds reasonable :)
[02:33:04] <cradek> how many places is it mentioned? seems like 1 would do it...?
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[02:34:03] <KimK> I'm not sure, three, maybe?
[02:34:26] <KimK> I'll check
[02:36:17] <KimK> Maybe only one after all?
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[02:37:34] <cradek> cool
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[12:13:00] <jthornton> hmm, looks like the 2.5 TOC links work but all the inline links go to page i in the PDF's... anyone have an idea on how to fix them?
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[13:09:39] <jepler> I thought psha had fixed that. He had worked on fixing some problem with HTML anchors due to the way all the LyX ones contained ":" which is apparently not a good character to choose
[13:09:49] <jepler> but maybe that never got finished, or maybe it doesn't apply to pdfs
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[14:49:32] <KimK> jepler: If it helps, I would happy to edit the links in whatever way provides a long-term solution. However, I thought I noticed that the links do seem to work in the html, just not in the pdf. So pdf conversion trouble, maybe?
[14:55:25] <jepler> no clue, sorry.
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[15:21:10] <KimK> OK, thanks. Maybe I'll email psha.
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[16:07:29] <CIA-33> EMC: 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * rd0e777547c20 10/docs/src/config/lathe_config.txt: Docs: minor edit
[16:07:51] <CIA-33> EMC: 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * r300229e941e2 10/docs/src/ (docs.xml index.tmpl): Docs: add missing lathe config to html
[16:08:00] <CIA-33> EMC: 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * r87eefb357e81 10/docs/src/quickstart/stepper_quickstart.txt: Docs: add scale example
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[16:54:49] <KimK> JT-Shop, jthornton: JT, what time did you push those last three changes? I pushed some stuff this morning, but it never showed up on CIA-33, is everything working? Or was CIA-33 down for awhile?
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[17:05:12] <KimK> It looks like you pushed about 7am, and I pushed about 10am, so maybe CIA-33 is running behind or missed my changes? Everything's OK with git, anyway, it looks like.
[17:24:48] <cradek> cia is an unreliable stepchild.
[17:26:51] <skunkworks_> maybe a dead beat dad?
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[17:49:30] <KimK> Ha, OK. Duly noted.
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[18:40:19] <cradek> KimK: I get an almost-unjustifiable amount of happiness from the way you go around fixing apostrophes and such. Thanks again for your docs work.
[18:44:50] <KimK> cradek: Ha, thanks, I think? But I have to fix them when I'm right there in front of them. If I say, "I should come back later and fix that...", it doesn't happen.
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[19:39:11] <JT-Shop> KimK: sometimes it takes a while
[19:40:55] <KimK> JT-Shop: OK, thanks. I see that CIA-33 just quit, did you restart it or something? Glad to hear you got your garage door in and got rid of the tarp, btw.
[19:42:41] <JT-Shop> I don't have anything to do with cia, and the garage door is still out
[19:44:09] <KimK> Oh, sorry, maybe I skimmed over the scrollback too fast, lol!
[19:44:36] <JT-Shop> heh
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[20:34:48] <skunkworks_> http://www.tormach.com/document_library/TechnicalDocuments/TD_ControlSystemAlternatives.pdf
[20:39:19] <andypugh> They can't spell "disdain"
[20:40:13] <cradek> distain is a word: "to stain the honor of; disgrace"
[20:41:46] <cradek> "The need, or at least the desire, for access to source code" smells a bit like "you don't really know what you need" and could have been worded better, but otherwise it's a pretty fair document
[20:42:46] <skunkworks_> just happened across it in an internet search.
[20:43:02] <andypugh> As far as I am aware, for Mill use, there is little to choose between them for functionality. But I suspect that setting Mach3 up for hobbing would be a challenge.
[20:44:03] <skunkworks_> tormachs are basically step and direction machines.. so I guess at the basic level they are going to run the machine simalarly9sp)
[20:44:05] <andypugh> Or for any of the other wacky things I have done, and seen done.
[20:44:17] <cradek> for their stepper system, the only big benefit in actual daily functionality you'd get by moving to EMC is tapping without a tapping head
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[20:44:50] <skunkworks_> and being able to surf at the control ;)
[20:44:57] <cradek> of course you could wonder whether an encoder or a tapping head is harder to set up
[20:45:07] <cradek> yeah ... and being able to plug it into a network and have it still work
[20:45:47] <andypugh> They win on being able to tinker with Excel in the background. :-)
[20:46:13] <cradek> except for the "don't touch the mouse while the mill is moving" limitation
[20:46:49] <cradek> (but maybe tormach's special windows installations work better than that)
[20:48:31] <skunkworks_> andypugh: I finally have some Arduino Uno's coming
[20:49:16] <andypugh> Mices are odd things. For many years holding down the mouse button on a Mac stopped _all_ processing.
[20:58:32] <skunkworks_> did I disconnect again?
[20:58:35] <skunkworks_> nope
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[21:33:16] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: not yet
[21:34:07] <skunkworks_> heh
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[21:49:56] <alex_joni> well, off to be for me, long day tomorrow
[21:50:25] <alex_joni> playing with bots :)
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