#emc-devel | Logs for 2011-04-24

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[01:03:18] <amperbiguous> I don't suppose there is any way to effect the visual representation of the tool cone in axis through a kinematics module? i.e. orientation
[01:04:15] <andypugh> Orientation is governed by ABC values.
[01:04:30] <andypugh> AFAIK it works.
[01:04:48] <alex_joni> but if it's right, who knows ;)
[01:04:55] <andypugh> (I have certainly seen the cone move in vismach)
[01:05:02] <alex_joni> yes, it does move
[01:05:24] <alex_joni> however.. specifying a certain rotation in space with ABC is imho not possible
[01:05:50] <alex_joni> as there are an infinity of rotations which end up with the same position of the cone
[01:06:10] <alex_joni> anyways.. 4am here, so I might be full of it ;)
[01:06:20] <alex_joni> have a great easter everyone
[01:06:39] <andypugh> amperbiguous: the GEOMETRY in the INI might be important. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BDISPLAY%5D-section
[01:07:08] <andypugh> But as Alex says, it might well just make it differently wrong.
[01:12:00] <amperbiguous> so when I change A through a jog.. The motion goes in an arc, but the tool doesn't rotate...
[01:12:13] <amperbiguous> I have a 4-th axis mounted along the x-axis.
[01:14:22] <andypugh> The order of the letters in GEOMETRY matters.
[01:14:44] <andypugh> Put A near the beginning and you will see it swivel
[01:17:21] <amperbiguous> oi... actually I didn't even have the Geomtry tab in there.. I saw the Coordinates one under TRAJ and thought it was the same...
[01:18:28] <amperbiguous> though I'm not understanding/seeing a difference in changing the position of A from XYZA to AXYZ
[01:23:41] <andypugh> Is A defined as ANGULAR (not sure it matters)
[01:24:09] <amperbiguous> [AXIS_3] -> TYPE=ANGULAR
[01:25:14] <amperbiguous> so to clarify.. Now the tool moves as I might expect around the part.. but I'd rather the part rotate
[01:25:27] <amperbiguous> (i.e. the backtrace path to rotate)
[01:26:08] <andypugh> It naively assumes that that the A axis is at Y0Z0 in machine coordinates, that might have some effect
[01:26:51] <andypugh> Sorry, I just don't think it works that way,
[01:27:53] <amperbiguous> I'm okay with Y0Z0... I just want it to visually rotate where the preview will match what it looks like when I look at the machine.
[01:27:53] <andypugh> Try defining how it ought to work, in all possible machines, and you might find out why it is so basic.
[01:28:35] <amperbiguous> I'm not complaining,. I am just looking for pointers and what I need to hackify. ;)
[01:30:13] <andypugh> Feel free to come up with a spec. It probably ties in with the machine envelope limits problem. If we can find a compact, complete way to define machine geometry and envelope, then it is likely to happen.
[01:31:16] <andypugh> Have a play with the sim Puma config, that gets the tool orientation and all the geometry right.
[01:31:24] <amperbiguous> right.. Curiously it now makes a full loop path in 180deg of A... (and now the tool is upside down)
[01:31:43] <andypugh> it's a start..
[01:32:34] <amperbiguous> sim-puma? I see puma's and sims... but not a combo... what am I not seeing?
[01:33:02] <andypugh> I guess you could argue that what the preview shows is, with enough mental gymnastics, sufficient to check that the G-code is doing what you expected.
[01:33:51] <andypugh> It is just Puma, but I think its a sim
[01:34:44] <amperbiguous> right... I'd like to eventually get proper backtracing of the g-code with simulated cutting and the machine previews like in the 5-axis versions......
[01:37:25] <andypugh> With a defined kinematics the preview and backplot are easy, as every tool tip position has a known location in cartesian space. With a typical XYZAB machine, you simply don't give EMC2 enough information to make a sensible plot.
[01:38:23] <amperbiguous> I don't follow...
[01:38:51] <andypugh> You could use cradek's 5axis kins, (for example) and that would plot correctly, as EMC2 gets enough geometry (and sequence) info
[01:40:58] <amperbiguous> yeah.. I'm need to go through his code and adapt it for my needs....
[01:41:07] <amperbiguous> thanks andy. Gotta run. ciao!
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[01:41:59] <andypugh> trivkins (the default) maps each joint to a cartesian coordinate or a rotation about the origin. It has no idea where the joint axes are. The more complex kinematics explicitly map every joint position to a tooltip position. Then all the preview needs to do is plot XYZ
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[02:47:44] <Shad0wBane> hey guys quick question what software are you guys using to create your nc or gcode is there any open source alternative to lazycam?
[02:48:58] <andypugh> HeeksCNC?
[02:49:28] <Shad0wBane> i looked at that and heekscad
[02:49:29] <andypugh> Though I just code in raw G-code with loops
[02:50:30] <andypugh> pycam?\
[02:51:01] <andypugh> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycam/
[02:51:32] <andypugh> I think there is a Blender toolchain too
[02:52:34] <Shad0wBane> interesting for the blender addon
[02:53:26] <andypugh> Try #emc and see if you can wake Mattymatt up
[02:57:26] <Shad0wBane> sorry was afk
[02:57:38] <Shad0wBane> looking for a spiral gcode example to test out my machine on the X and Y axis
[02:57:58] <cradek> try the obfuscatorily-named spiral.ngc
[02:59:36] <Shad0wBane> i did
[02:59:44] <Shad0wBane> but it's not g-code?!?!
[03:00:03] <Shad0wBane> not using emc right now sorry forgot to mention
[03:00:14] * cradek checks channel name
[03:00:17] <cradek> hmm
[03:00:25] <cradek> yes it's emc's dialect of gcode
[03:00:27] <Shad0wBane> lol i know shame on me
[03:00:35] <andypugh> If it ends in .ngc it is G-code
[03:00:56] <Shad0wBane> hummm my crappy software won't read it
[03:01:07] <cradek> you *might* have better luck with arcspiral.ngc
[03:01:20] <cradek> but if your control can't do R format arcs (correctly) you're stuffed there too
[03:01:29] <Shad0wBane> probably can't
[03:01:43] <Shad0wBane> but it was an easy winbloze install on the box i had ready for test
[03:01:43] <cradek> then you'll have to write it by hand (generate it with a program)
[03:01:45] <andypugh> Get better software. I can recommend one.
[03:01:53] <cradek> it's extremely trivial to generate this gcode
[03:02:53] <andypugh> Excel is actually pretty good for generating G-code.
[03:03:09] <Shad0wBane> i think i'll try the live cd for emc
[03:03:22] <Shad0wBane> since the laptops that's connected to the cnc has a dying hdd
[03:03:24] <andypugh> (or an equivalent FOS spreadsheet of your choice)
[03:03:54] <Shad0wBane> hehe i use libreoffice =)
[03:05:30] <andypugh> Columns with calculations, then concatenate ( & ) into a column of G-code. Try it, it is really quite easy.
[03:05:59] <Shad0wBane> i think it's a sign
[03:06:12] <Shad0wBane> get my lazy butt to download the live emc cd and run it lol
[03:06:51] <Shad0wBane> but that means it need to start up another machine.....netbooks....no burners...arggg!!! lol
[03:07:29] <Shad0wBane> the live cd has examples like the spiral.ngc and arcspiral in it?
[03:07:35] <cradek> yes
[03:07:43] <cradek> they're packaged with emc2
[03:07:52] <Shad0wBane> well guess it's time to bog down this crappy adsl connection lol
[03:07:53] <cradek> you can also see them on our git
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[03:08:24] <cradek> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=tree;f=nc_files;h=78668dd4fc068ac896752a1fdff161d4f50347d7;hb=HEAD
[03:08:54] <Shad0wBane> kewl
[03:10:05] <Shad0wBane> guess it beats installing my distro on a dying hdd and then trying to compile emc2 on it
[03:13:19] <Shad0wBane> is it easy to configure emc2 for old school parallel port stepper controllers
[03:13:27] <cradek> yes
[03:13:37] <Shad0wBane> good good
[03:13:55] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_stepconf.html
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[03:15:55] <Shad0wBane> oh this is gonna take foever w00t
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[05:08:43] <Shad0wBane> finally
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[18:57:54] <tom3p> how can i get vismach to render a model without running emc? ( my view/edit/view cycle is long )
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[21:51:17] <micges> andypugh: hi
[21:51:28] <andypugh> Hi
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[21:54:57] <micges> I want to extend hm2 driver support for 5i21
[21:56:25] <andypugh> 5i21?
[21:56:28] <andypugh> (Google)
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[21:57:20] <micges> 12x rs422
[21:57:22] <micges> on pci
[21:58:30] <micges> I'm detecting it and such and got problem
[21:58:37] <andypugh> That might be an interesting challenge. I am not sure how much the existing driver assumes about the pinouts.
[21:58:46] <micges> 'invalid cookie'
[21:59:13] <micges> yes driver assumes much info but I think I can handle it
[22:00:09] <micges> from what is cookie come from?
[22:02:14] <andypugh> What's the exact error message?
[22:03:58] <micges> [19863.351283] hm2/hm2_5i21.0: invalid cookie, got 0x00000100, expected 0x55AACAFE
[22:04:42] <micges> is it means empty fpga?
[22:04:57] <andypugh> That is probably a question for PCW.
[22:05:08] <andypugh> Which bitfile are you using?
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[22:08:30] <micges> some from mesanet page
[22:08:49] <micges> ok thanks anyway
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[22:09:10] <pcw_home> You rang?
[22:09:22] <micges> heh
[22:09:23] <micges> hi
[22:09:47] <andypugh> 55AACAFE, that's just a magic string from the bitfile isn't it?
[22:10:30] <pcw_home> Yes, The first problem is that there are no 5I21 HostMot2 configs (so no 55AACAFE)
[22:10:32] <micges> just got time to programming and unfortunately I can do nothing without proper firmware
[22:11:13] <pcw_home> I can cobble one together but probably only sometime Monday
[22:12:28] <micges> no rush, I'm happy that it's detected properly :)
[22:13:30] <pcw_home> Yeah only need to add the subsystem ID to make the driver get as far as checking for the HostMot2 cookie
[22:13:42] <andypugh> It will be fun to see how pins.c copes.
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[22:14:52] <andypugh> micges: Try commenting out lines 1054 and 1055 in hostmot.c and see how much further it gets?
[22:15:40] <pcw_home> The 5I21 is "odd" in that it has some dedicated input and output pins, but probably should be treated as a normal card
[22:16:11] <micges> yeah I was thinking that making empty config line will enable it in 'idle' mode :)
[22:18:18] <pcw_home> The driver will fail all over since the demo configs are not HostMot2 so have no IDROM
[22:18:38] <andypugh> In that case, probably not worth the experiment.
[22:19:32] <andypugh> What sort of things do the firmwares do?
[22:20:01] <andypugh> Is it aimed at things like Modbus?
[22:20:24] <pcw_home> I think theres a GPIO and maybe UART one
[22:20:26] <pcw_home> That reminds me, Andy does your sserial driver get its the base address from the IDROM?
[22:20:47] <andypugh> Yes.
[22:21:13] <pcw_home> were thinking of moving the sserial base address to make room for one more user register
[22:21:20] <andypugh> (If you are asking whether I have hard-coded any addresses, anywhere, the answer is "no")
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[22:21:48] <pcw_home> Good, so we are free to push things around...
[22:21:49] <andypugh> All the stuff I have done assumes that functions might move around.
[22:22:13] <andypugh> And I am pretty sure the same is true of Seb's stuff.
[22:23:21] <pcw_home> Yes at some point I think the model base addresses will need to be dynamically assigned at bitfile compilation time
[22:23:34] <pcw_home> s/model/module/
[22:24:06] <andypugh> Ah, pcw. I have gone back to master, and an 8-encoder 8-PWM setup with no BSPIs is 60uS thread time. I am sure they didn't take so long before.
[22:24:20] <andypugh> Maybe I need to check it with a 2.4 branch?
[22:25:53] <pcw_home> Maybe, one by one PCI accesses are not terribly fast and depend on the host, I wonder how many accesses are happening?
[22:26:48] <andypugh> I don't think it is the one-by-one thing, the encoders and pwms are all registered as contiguous chunks.
[22:27:19] <pcw_home> (assuming that there is not some other non-I/O CPU hog)
[22:28:00] <andypugh> I am trying to decide if my computer is slow or if something has got slow in the master branch. BSPI and the BSPI firmware are off the hook.
[22:29:14] <andypugh> pcw_home: In fact, do you have a setup there? Can you just see what your thread time is with SV12.BIT and 8 encoders / 8 pwms?
[22:29:29] <pcw_home> Not at home
[22:30:08] <pcw_home> You could try setting it to all 1's (not sure if alll 0's works)
[22:30:18] <andypugh> Well, 2.5 is just the same.
[22:31:03] <pcw_home> That would give you a hint where the time goes
[22:32:08] <pcw_home> by all 1's I meant just one encoder and one pwm
[22:32:50] <andypugh> 0 of each is 23uS.
[22:33:05] <micges> pcw_home: on firmware it is different to have 422 or 485 ? or can it be selectable during startup ?
[22:33:51] <pcw_home> Yes it can be selectable (may have to set some GPIO bits this way and that)
[22:37:07] <pcw_home> Assumming the encode I/O and PWM I/O are only one read/write per thread that should be about 12 uSec worst case
[22:37:09] <pcw_home> so that means about 25 usec of code overhead for the 7 additional axis about 3.5 (or ~~3000 instructions) per axis
[22:42:25] <pcw_home> Andy, did you see our proposed changes to the SSLBP code (sserial)?
[22:42:27] <pcw_home> We are trying to clean up and generalize the interface for the new cards
[22:42:29] <pcw_home> and allow less disruptive channel start/stop/restart Im wondering if channel
[22:42:30] <pcw_home> start/stop via a HAL pin seems practical (it would solve a problem Matt has with the 8I20)
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[22:51:20] <micges> thanks guys
[22:51:29] <micges> going bed, bye
[22:51:36] <jt-plasma> goodnight
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[22:52:52] <andypugh> Yes, it should be possible to add a start-stop pin.
[22:53:15] <andypugh> Though I am not sure that there isn't already one?
[22:56:32] <pcw_home> currently you can start one (or many) at a time but theres only a stop-all command
[22:56:34] <pcw_home> The way Matts Estop works, it turns off motor power to the 8I20 so to start EMC needs to in control of
[22:56:36] <pcw_home> channel start
[22:57:39] <andypugh> Sounds like a containable change.
[22:57:59] <andypugh> But does it mean we need to exclude the current driver from the 2.5 release?
[22:58:33] <pcw_home> I was thinking a bi-directional pin per channel, Writes start or stop, read indicate status (started,stopped)
[22:59:14] <pcw_home> Any idea when 2.5 release is contemplated?
[23:00:00] <pcw_home> 'nite micges (maybe too late)
[23:00:58] <andypugh> I think that 2.5 is probably due in weeks rather than months.
[23:02:01] <andypugh> cradek probably has a better guess than me.
[23:02:18] <andypugh> While I am shouting names, is jepler online?
[23:03:06] <pcw_home> We can make the firmware compatible with the old so I think this can be done incrementally
[23:05:18] <andypugh> The existing stop function is only to enable eeprom setting changes anyway (and is a little clunky, and has only ever been used by one preson)
[23:08:21] <pcw_home> firmware differences:
[23:08:23] <pcw_home> stop command now has bit mask for channels to stop) old all 0 mask is synonym for 0xff so old stop-all will still stop-all on new firmware
[23:08:25] <pcw_home> USER1 register now contains 4 letter remote device name (7I64 etc) after start and before DoIt
[23:08:26] <pcw_home> IDcode is now use as remote device mode indicator (but we will keep 8I20 and 7I64 codes for a few rev cycles)
[23:09:56] <pcw_home> s/use/used/
[23:11:03] <andypugh> OK, I certainly need to get the device name change worked out.
[23:12:20] <pcw_home> It should be compatible but we are in the midst of changing it and have not tried the new firmware with your driver yet
[23:13:03] <pcw_home> (I think user1 at statup was something pretty obscure on the 8I20)
[23:18:47] <pcw_home> We only have 2K of codespace for SSLBP so its something of a challenge to support all the devices
[23:18:49] <pcw_home> one way is making them all look more alike
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[23:49:17] <pcw_home> I could instrument a 5I23 config to put out a pulse on some I/O pin every access if you want to check I/O timing