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[14:50:01] <skunkworks> I wish stuart would try mesa hardware...
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[15:13:04] <mhaberler_> cradek: I'd need some senior advice on procedure-based toolchange - can I bug you for a few minutes?
[15:15:43] <sarariman_seb> skunkworks: stuart stevenson's using mesa on the robot arm
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[15:28:21] <skunkworks> seb!
[15:28:22] <skunkworks> neat
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[15:31:07] <skunkworks> seb!
[15:31:10] <skunkworks> neat
[15:31:59] <sarariman_seb_> hi :-)
[15:33:33] <skunkworks> how is it going? keeping busy?
[15:35:00] <sarariman_seb_> yeah mostly :-)
[15:35:07] <sarariman_seb_> i got a real job now
[15:35:18] <sarariman_seb_> so that's good i guess
[15:35:19] <skunkworks> Great!
[15:35:23] <sarariman_seb_> how are things with you?
[15:35:31] <skunkworks> in the area? or are you going to have to move?
[15:35:48] <sarariman_seb_> i dont have to move
[15:36:01] <sarariman_seb_> it's in boulder, not far from my old job
[15:36:02] <skunkworks> Pretty good - the K&T is running great. I think dad is going to start converting the cincinati lathe.
[15:36:08] <sarariman_seb_> heh
[15:36:48] <skunkworks> I have been catching up on my projects with the k&t - doing a lot of 1 offs - no issues.
[15:37:00] <sarariman_seb_> that's great :-)
[15:37:09] <sarariman_seb_> nice to have a working machine, eh?
[15:37:13] <skunkworks> yes
[15:37:15] <skunkworks> very
[15:37:37] <skunkworks> Are you still in the linux realm?
[15:37:46] <sarariman_seb_> i got the computer mounted in the electronics cabinet of my bridgeport finally
[15:38:05] <sarariman_seb_> making the little covers for connectors & buttons & leds & stuff now
[15:38:25] <sarariman_seb_> of course i'm in linux! :-P
[15:38:33] <sarariman_seb_> where else would i be?
[15:38:39] <skunkworks> heh
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[15:39:04] <skunkworks> I still have to finalize the control pannel.
[15:39:28] <skunkworks> right now I have 1 jog wheel, 2 rotory switches and a feed hold toggle.
[15:39:43] <sarariman_seb_> sounds like a good start
[15:39:50] <skunkworks> it works quite well - but I am used to the old control which was pretty limited
[15:40:06] <sarariman_seb_> the feed hold toggle sets feed override to 0% when enabled?
[15:40:48] <sarariman_seb_> that's a feature i dont have on my control panel
[15:41:34] <sarariman_seb_> i've got a jog wheel and two rotaries (axis select and jog increment select), plus six momentaries for rapiding all axes in all directions
[15:41:46] <skunkworks> there is actually a feed hold input.
[15:41:50] <sarariman_seb_> and momentaries for spindle on/off, and spindle faster/slower
[15:42:09] <sarariman_seb_> oh that's nice, so you don't have to remember in hal what to set it back to when you un-hold
[15:42:22] <skunkworks> exactly :)
[15:42:33] <skunkworks> I have been using mv override a lot.
[15:43:13] <sarariman_seb_> i'm thinking of adding a position to my axis-select rotary for feed override
[15:43:15] <cradek> motion has a realtime feed hold input
[15:43:24] <sarariman_seb_> cool
[15:43:26] <sarariman_seb_> hi chris :-)
[15:43:30] <cradek> hi!
[15:43:31] <skunkworks> I can see where it would be nice to have continuous jog buttons... there are times when I could just face a piece of material with a continuous jogs.
[15:43:44] <sarariman_seb_> yeah
[15:44:04] <sarariman_seb_> oh that reminds me, i also want a position on the axis-select rotary for setting the jog speed...
[15:44:33] <cradek> sounds like you actually want touchy
[15:44:42] <sarariman_seb_> control panel design is kind of funny business, because it's strongly influenced by your workflow, which is strongly influenced by your control panel :-)
[15:44:43] <mhaberler_> hi cradek! can I bug you for advice on procedure-based toolchange and introspection?
[15:44:46] <cradek> it already does all that
[15:44:46] <sarariman_seb_> i do want touchy :-)
[15:44:57] <cradek> mhaberler_: I can try
[15:45:06] <sarariman_seb_> i'm *this* close to buying a 12" touch LCD from some guy in china
[15:45:09] <mhaberler_> ok, this is the rub.
[15:45:45] <skunkworks> I edit so much at the machine though....
[15:46:29] <sarariman_seb_> i've seen cradek use a laptop next to the machine for writing programs, then copying them to the machine for running
[15:46:35] <mhaberler_> I had to redo the execution of oword sub handlers completely because INTERP_EXECUTE_FINISH wasnt handled properly. Upside - things become a bit simpler. Downside: a handler procedure is 'rescheduled' by task if it returned INTERP_EXECUTE_FINISH.
[15:47:02] <mhaberler_> that what you found 'elegant' or 'simple' was in fact too simple ;-)
[15:47:41] <skunkworks> sarariman_seb_: right.. I actually do some of that now. (I have my laptop that I do the cad on - convert it to gcode and copy it to the machine over the network
[15:47:44] <mhaberler_> anyway. Now assume the handler sub is done. There is some work currently at the C++ level like in M6 case, changing the tool number.
[15:48:43] <sarariman_seb_> i can see the appeal of having a dedicated computer to run the machine, with a UI optimized for machining
[15:48:46] <mhaberler_> there are several options. What I have is: mark a handler oword sub with a hook function which is executed after endsub/return and does, for instance, change the tool number and reread offsets. So that's the automatic option.
[15:49:08] <sarariman_seb_> it's just a bit different than our cultural default of "it's a computer, it can do all the computer-y tasks"
[15:49:15] <mhaberler_> The otther option I see is to move these, if you will, 'commit hooks' to new m-codes.
[15:49:20] <sarariman_seb_> skunkworks, what do you use for cad?
[15:49:53] <mhaberler_> then option 3 would be to introduce new predefined oword subs, and option 4 is introducing magic variables which do 'the right thing' when assigned.
[15:49:56] <mhaberler_> So..
[15:50:40] <mhaberler_> the question really boils down to: how do I commit a handler's successful execution when all is done
[15:50:50] <cradek> you are talking about how/when to change the interp's internal idea of the loaded tool?
[15:51:09] <mhaberler_> yes, for instance. there are several such cases
[15:51:10] <cradek> I don't understand what you mean by rereading offsets - neither T nor M6 do anything with offsets
[15:51:20] <skunkworks> right now I use autocad because I learned on it and it is easy for me (and ace to conver all in a virtual box xp install on linux ;) ). I would like to try one on linux - like
[15:51:35] <mhaberler_> oops, I meant read_tool_parameters() really.
[15:51:51] <mhaberler_> that was with M61.
[15:51:58] <mhaberler_> it was missing in 2.5
[15:52:07] <skunkworks> heekscad/cam
[15:52:08] <cradek> oh right, I forgot about that
[15:52:27] <sarariman_seb_> skunkworks: i'm totally disappointed in heekscad/cam :-(
[15:52:39] <skunkworks> sarariman_seb_: aww. what do you use?
[15:52:42] <mhaberler_> well, actually it is needed on M6 as well. But that is a good example for waht I mean with 'commit a handler'
[15:52:47] <sarariman_seb_> vi :-/
[15:52:52] <skunkworks> heh
[15:52:56] <cradek> seems like after the M6 o-sub runs, you know the new tool is in the spindle
[15:53:01] <skunkworks> have you seen pycam?
[15:53:12] <mhaberler_> I can use the subroutine return value and commit or not commit the change.
[15:53:14] <sarariman_seb_> yeah, i did some debian packaging fixes for them
[15:53:14] <cradek> can't you just set current-tool etc after the special call of the M6 sub?
[15:53:21] <sarariman_seb_> before i switched to heeks
[15:53:33] <cradek> mhaberler_: I don't know what that means - please explain
[15:53:45] <sarariman_seb_> pycam was crazy slow last time i looked at it, and it didnt do any cad stuff
[15:53:49] <mhaberler_> that works, and it is automatic. It's just - there are several ways to grind that cat
[15:53:56] <skunkworks> sarariman_seb_: ah
[15:54:22] <sarariman_seb_> i'm thinking of trying to write some "conversational machining" wizards based on opencamlib
[15:54:27] <skunkworks> acad+ace works well for me for simple 2.5d stuff.
[15:54:42] <skunkworks> (old acad12)
[15:55:01] <cradek> ha another acad12 user
[15:55:01] <mhaberler_> cradeK. this is what I do now, if the sub returned a value > 0. HOWEVER it would be possibel to make the handler procedure plain (no side effects) and cook up a Mxxx to do that commit step explicitely
[15:55:19] <skunkworks> (again - mainly because I ran a laser in another life and used acad to draw up the paths)
[15:55:25] <cradek> what would be the benefit of that added complexity?
[15:55:35] <skunkworks> cradek: heh ;) but mine is windows...
[15:55:46] <mhaberler_> make t explicit
[15:55:53] <mhaberler_> maybe a good point..
[15:56:26] <mhaberler_> sorry. Forget the idea. I stay with automatic post-handler hooks which commit on positive return values and be done with it.
[15:56:32] <skunkworks> cradek: I still want to try realize. I have been doing all cutter comp in cad - and want to actually start using tool tables some day ;)
[15:56:51] <sarariman_seb_> skunkworks: you've got the tool changer for it :-)
[15:56:57] <skunkworks> heh
[15:57:05] <mhaberler_> I guess the idea wasnt fully thought through. Blush.
[15:57:27] <sarariman_seb_> i got a segfault in milltask the other night
[15:57:37] <cradek> mhaberler_: I think if the tool change succeeds, it should commit automatically. if it fails, the program should abort. that's all I think.
[15:57:48] <sarariman_seb_> 2.5.0-pre1-126
[15:57:51] <mhaberler_> ok
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[15:58:54] <cradek> sarariman_seb_: do you know anything about it?
[15:59:08] <sarariman_seb_> no... :-(
[15:59:16] <sarariman_seb_> it was at the end of the night and I was zonked
[15:59:20] <cradek> skunkworks: realize doesn't do cutter comp - but I sometimes add the entry moves etc by hand.
[15:59:27] <cradek> sarariman_seb_: ick.
[15:59:55] <cradek> I got empty operator messages whenever changing estop in master recently - building now to see if it's still there.
[16:00:08] <sarariman_seb_> i commanded a move, and axis stopped responding and redrawing
[16:00:43] <sarariman_seb_> there was a message in the syslog about milltask segfaulting
[16:01:07] <sarariman_seb_> i saved it and went to bed, i'll post it this evening when i get home
[16:02:17] <sarariman_seb_> there's just one sketchy clang report, and i dont think it's responsible for this problem
[16:02:19] <sarariman_seb_> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/clang/v2.5_branch.sim/v2.5.0-pre1-126-g94fa853/report-r1dFn4.html#EndPath
[16:02:50] <cradek> yeah unless you were unhoming
[16:03:45] <tom3p> with a rack tool change, i tried to use M61 Q0 for the duration between 'putaway' and 'grabnew'.
[16:03:46] <tom3p> of course M61 rqrs MDI or manual. but setting NoTool is good idea asap.
[16:09:05] <cradek> yeah in master I'm getting bogus empty operator messages
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[16:19:30] <cradek> mhaberler_: d01fdaf051eab0503b1a013fcfa41a75327bad81 introduced this problem. do you want to fix it or should I revert?
[16:19:46] <mhaberler_> let me have a look
[16:19:58] <mhaberler_> the segfault just mentioned?
[16:20:09] <cradek> no, the empty operator messages
[16:20:21] <mhaberler_> oh, I see.
[16:20:25] <cradek> you get one when you start emc, and then more when you toggle estop
[16:21:03] <mhaberler_> ok, I will look into it and fix it
[16:21:08] <cradek> thanks
[16:21:24] <mhaberler_> hey, my bugs are all *mine* ;-)
[16:21:33] <cradek> you can have 'em!
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[16:38:55] <mhaberler_> psha: I think I have that INTERP_EXECUTE_FINISH problem nailed - and things become much simpler
[16:43:47] <psha> cool
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[16:45:43] <mhaberler_> even works out of the box for MID, that is something new ;-)
[16:45:47] <mhaberler_> MDI
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[17:26:05] <mhaberler_> psha: if you want to have a look:
http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc2-dev.git/commit/e0f8397a9213a3c73f2d6ef36c57bbd2f619f305
[18:01:37] <mhaberler_> cradek: fix commited (is CIA down?)
[18:01:46] <CIA-34> EMC: 03mhaberler 07master * r2a95338d11a6 10/src/emc/task/emctask.cc: interp: fix empty operator messages
[18:01:52] <mhaberler_> no, it isnt
[18:01:53] <cradek> thanks
[18:08:02] <mhaberler_> cradek: can you help me with this tool table 'vanishing pocket number' mystery? I guess some non-random TC's need a bona-fide pocket information
[18:08:36] <mhaberler_> (since the gcode-toolchanger stuff is done and off to the tester..)
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[18:25:55] <cradek> I did flag your list message with the intent of trying to help
[18:26:15] <mhaberler_> thanks. It is not urgent.
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[18:29:49] <cradek> argh, I have 61 flagged messages in my inbox
[18:32:01] <cradek> mhaberler: looks like the fms array is used to preserve the P numbers, which aren't used for anything in nonrandom
[18:32:39] <cradek> I do not understand your interpretation that pocket numbers "go away" and pocket number equals tool number
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[18:33:06] <cradek> can you be more specific?
[18:33:10] <cradek> dangit
[18:37:53] <andypugh> Ah! cradek!
[18:38:11] <andypugh> I have a problem with Touchy, any ideas?
[18:39:00] <cradek> let me consult my tarot cards
[18:39:16] <cradek> OOHHMMMMMMMM OOHHMMMMMMMM
[18:39:39] <cradek> sorry, no signal
[18:39:41] <andypugh> Specifically, it opens maximised, then gets a little bit taller when I press the first button. Then it alternates between top onscreen and bottom onscreen every press (the effect of which is that buttons jump out from under the press).
[18:39:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: Um, file a sexual harrasment lawsuit
[18:40:01] <Jymmm> cradek: s/signal/spirit/
[18:40:02] <cradek> use a smaller font so it fits on the screen
[18:40:21] <cradek> it should work on really any screen size
[18:40:40] <andypugh> Easier said than done, when the font choice dropdowns jump out of the way.
[18:41:01] <andypugh> (wanders off to edit the .touchy_preferences
[18:41:08] <cradek> edit ~/.touchy_preferences or whatever it is and make them really small to start
[18:41:15] <andypugh> How small would you guess for a 1024x768?
[18:41:37] <cradek> depends on your dpi
[18:41:57] <cradek> start at 8 point for everything
[18:41:57] <Jymmm> 8 or 10pt to start
[18:42:08] <Jymmm> cradek: lol
[18:42:38] <Jymmm> cradek: (I think we've been doing this shit for too long)
[18:44:47] <andypugh> It works with everything at 6. But it looks silly.
[18:45:11] <cradek> now futz with the fonts until it looks less silly
[18:45:33] <andypugh> Ah, you mean the actual typeface, not the size?
[18:45:49] <cradek> you can futz with both
[18:46:05] <cradek> you probably want to use a fixed font for the DRO and proportional for everything else
[18:46:12] <andypugh> Everything at 6 except DRO (at 8) brings the issue back.
[18:46:30] <cradek> what window manager does this?
[18:46:45] <andypugh> I don't know.
[18:47:03] <andypugh> The normal one. We weren't introduced.
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[18:47:06] <andypugh> :-)
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[18:53:55] <andypugh> Turning off visual effects might have fixed it.
[18:54:55] <andypugh> The error bar is still off the bottom of the screen, (or actually behind what looks like an empty "task bar", should that be there?)
[18:57:33] <cradek> no surprise if visual effects make it work less well
[18:58:04] <cradek> the errors print at the bottom - you definitely want to be able to see them
[19:02:03] <andypugh> I only had the default basic ones on.
[19:02:50] <andypugh> So, can I turn off that "task bar"? It appears to be broken, nothing ever appears in it. (I realise this might be difficult to answer)
[19:04:53] <Jymmm> andypugh: 2011-04-12 11:58:04 cradek: the errors print at the bottom - you definitely want to be able to see them
[19:06:25] <andypugh> Yes, that's my point. The Touchy window bottom is behind that "task bar" (if, indeed, it is a task bar)
[19:10:44] <Jymmm> Thats I don't know, would have to ask cradek for the detailss.
[19:10:48] <Jymmm> details
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[19:22:30] <andypugh> Got rid of the bottom panel (err, right-click it, and select "delete")
[19:24:00] <andypugh> This is the biggest fonts I can manage. It seems a bit odd.
http://imagebin.org/147828
[19:24:27] <Jymmm> looks clean to me
[19:24:39] <Jymmm> I suspect borders/margins are the culprit
[19:26:25] <andypugh> It can fit much bigger text in the width, but the height goes out-of-screen. Seems a bit odd when there is so much space above and below the button captons
[19:29:26] <andypugh> http://imagebin.org/147829
[19:30:07] <andypugh> Would be easier to read. And there is lots that the buttons could squash up by. (And, I am sure it used to fit with bigger text even than that)
[19:32:53] <skunkworks> can you auto hide the top menu bar?
[19:33:08] <andypugh> I could try.
[19:43:15] <JT-Shop> andypugh: which "theme" are you using on this computer?
[19:44:39] <JT-Shop> hmm changing themes makes no difference on my 10.04
[19:56:59] <andypugh> I went for a theme which made it clearer which button was pressed.
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[19:57:49] <Jymmm> That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! Actually wanting to SEE what's on the screen!?? wth
[19:59:49] <JT-Shop> when I change font or font size on both of my machines it still stays maximized and the buttons just shrink and grow to accommodate... nothing gets cut off
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[19:59:55] <cradek> the height is probably caused by the mdi tab. I bet you can have larger control font, if you leave the listing font small.
[20:00:17] <cradek> or, maybe the status tab is what's making it tall
[20:00:26] <cradek> check for the most squished looking tab
[20:02:15] <JT-Shop> the listing font will make it scroll off the screen
[20:03:39] <JT-Shop> it = the bottom of the screen
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[20:07:57] <andypugh> Changing the listing font makes the listing smaller. But the number of lines stays the same (they just get big gaps between them)
[20:08:23] <andypugh> I think I screwed something up somewhere.
[20:08:25] <cradek> is it the status page that's causing the height?
[20:08:58] <andypugh> Ah, yes, seems likely.
[20:10:11] <cradek> for that one I think you have to change the gnome font or dpi
[20:10:19] <cradek> I forget exactly
[20:10:32] <cradek> if your dpi is 100, certainly try changing to 75
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[20:14:43] <Jymmm> ew, 75 seems small imo
[20:15:00] <Jymmm> but, try 72 dpi if you need that small
[20:15:23] <Jymmm> 72, 96, 120 dpi
[20:15:31] <andypugh> Yay! That's done the trick.
[20:15:39] <Jymmm> what did?
[20:15:44] <cradek> 75 and 100 are the normal settings for X
[20:15:45] <andypugh> 7odpi
[20:15:52] <andypugh> 70 dpi I mean
[20:15:54] <Jymmm> cradek: ah,
[20:16:12] <cradek> andypugh: yay!
[20:16:18] <andypugh> It shrinks the menu bars too, which is a win
[20:17:42] <andypugh> http://imagebin.org/147841
[20:18:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: looks like shit, try again ;)
[20:18:14] <andypugh> Small menus, auto-hide top panel. I like it.
[20:18:43] <andypugh> (Now I need to wonder about that realtime delay, which is new :-(
[20:18:53] <skunkworks> andypugh: what hardware
[20:19:01] <andypugh> D510MO
[20:19:51] <skunkworks> ah - I think danamals garage had the same issue. I don't know if the d510mo's video is that realtimey... but he shut off the screen saver and such and it went away iirc
[20:20:19] <skunkworks> (compared to the older atom_
[20:20:42] <andypugh> Screensaver hasn't had a chance yet. But it might be related to the USB video camera...
[20:25:32] <Jymmm> http://andypughporncam.orgy
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[20:28:31] <andypugh> No sign of a RT delay with the video camera not connected.
[20:30:59] <cradek> aha
[20:32:36] <skunkworks> it is probably the keyboard then! duh - trouble shooting 1-oh-1! ;)
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[20:40:32] <andypugh> Might be worth asking danimal if he has a usb webcam centre-finder.
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