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[01:56:35] <mozmck1> andypugh: u32num = 16bitnum
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[02:13:21] <cradek> you've got to decide what you want to do with the sign bit. the question as stated is kind of ambiguous IMO
[02:13:45] <cradek> ambiguous and/or nonsensical
[02:33:40] <mozmck1> doesn't the compiler take care of the sign bit?
[02:33:53] <mozmck1> oh, maybe that's the problem...
[02:34:18] <cradek> yeah - I don't understand what he's doing
[02:34:31] <mozmck1> Wouldn't u32num = (u32num)16bitnum work?
[02:35:16] <mozmck1> no, I meant more like this u32num = (u16)16bitnum...
[02:35:27] <cradek> I'm not sure what you get with unsigned <= signed
[02:36:24] <mozmck1> hmm, me neither. I usually write a small program to test things like that.
[02:36:48] <SWPadnos> I did that. you get the same bit pattern
[02:36:57] <cradek> yes that can tell you what you get with a certain compiler and a certain byte ordering etc
[02:37:20] <cradek> but it might be harder to write it portably - I don't know enough to say
[02:37:27] <mozmck1> same as what SWP?
[02:37:32] <SWPadnos> yes, the problem statement was a problem ...
[02:38:45] <SWPadnos> the u32var ends up being 0x0000[whatever the bitwise representation of the signed number was]
[02:39:12] <mozmck1> I see. That's with the typecast?
[02:39:22] <SWPadnos> so for -10000, that's d8f0 for the s16, and it's 0000d8f0 for the u32
[02:39:26] <SWPadnos> with or without
[02:39:38] <jepler> if you restrict yourself to two's complement machines, the results of casting from a signed type to an unsigned type are defined, e.g., -1 -> 0xff...ff
[02:39:42] <SWPadnos> u32var = s16var
[02:40:33] <jepler> if you prefer to get zero bits where the narrower number had no corresponding bits, then cast to the narrow unsigned type first and then to the wide type. that is defined, even if you use weird non-two's-complement machines
[02:41:08] <mozmck1> SWPadnos: Probably because the typecast is implict when copying signed to unsigned variables.
[02:41:18] <SWPadnos> sure, could be
[02:41:40] <mozmck1> implicit that is...
[02:42:04] <SWPadnos> at least with gcc (4.4.3-4ubuntu5) 4.43 on Ubuntu 10.04 x64 :)
[02:43:54] <jepler> http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/wg14/www/docs/n1124.pdf 6.3.1.3 (pdf page 55) defines the rules of conversion, point 2 explaining how conversion to an unsigned type is performed
[02:44:34] <mozmck1> how about u32num = (u32)0x0 & 16bitnum?
[02:44:52] <cradek> you mean |
[02:44:53] <jepler> 6.2.6.2 (pdf page 50) explains the three possible types of representations of negative numbers. As far as I know, no computers of consequence today use anything but two's complement.
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[02:46:11] <jepler> so when you want to cast -256 to uint32_t, you add 4294967296 to it mathematically and get 4294967040 which is hex 0xffffff00
[02:46:19] <mozmck1> cradek: yep.
[02:46:33] <jepler> actually, I think in light of 6.3.1.3 that's true regardless of whether you found a weird sign-magnitude or one's complement machine to execute the code on!
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[02:50:47] <mozmck1> jepler: what if he want's to just copy the bits straight across without changing them?
[02:51:14] <mozmck1> I assumed that's what he meant, but maybe not.
[02:52:44] <SWPadnos> if you're really paranoid about it, you can do something like this: u32var = s16var<0 ? 0x8000 | (u32)(-s16var) : s16var;
[02:52:56] <mozmck1> his email gives a little more detail, but I'm still not sure what he means. I need to read on twos-complement again.
[02:53:09] <SWPadnos> I don't know why he threw a float in there
[02:53:29] <jepler> if the desired output for the input -256 is 0x0000ff00, then you want to first cast the value to the unsigned 16-bit type and then to the unsigned 32-bit type.
[02:53:33] <SWPadnos> it may be a raw signed analog value, which at some point should be a float HAL value
[02:54:03] <SWPadnos> jepler, that didn't matter in my experiment
[02:54:28] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/bits.c
[02:54:51] <jepler> these give different results for negative input values v16:
[02:54:51] <jepler> uint32_t v32a = (uint32_t)(uint16_t) v16;
[02:54:51] <jepler> uint32_t v32b = (uint32_t) v16;
[02:55:03] <SWPadnos> well, that's C++ now, isn't it? :)
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[02:55:48] <mozmck1> SWPadnos: how's that C++? I don't see no cout << !
[02:56:02] <SWPadnos> or std::
[02:56:10] <mozmck1> heh, I should click the link first.
[02:57:03] <jepler> well, the program does happen to be C++, but those type names are C99
[02:57:38] <jepler> I used C++ for output because unlike printf you don't get into yet another layer of implicit type conversions the way you do if you pass a short as a varargs argument to printf
[02:58:05] <jepler> (the (uint32_t) cast is not strictly necessary; the cast would be implicitly performed by the compiler)
[02:58:11] <SWPadnos> oh. well that could be part of why everything was so peachy for me
[02:58:58] <jepler> as far as I am aware that program is not depending on undefined or implementation-defined behavior. The 6.3.1.3 rule means that all the conversions are defined.
[03:00:48] <SWPadnos> I think the problem is simplified because the conversion is from a narrow type to a wider type
[03:01:04] <SWPadnos> so any value of the signed narrow type fits in the unsigned wide type
[03:01:45] <jepler> for the reverse conversion (e.g, you have a uint32_t v32 = 0x0000ff00; int16_t v16 = v32;) you are using implementation-defined behavior, but you're unlikely to ever run into a system which doesn't define it in the natural way given two's complement arithmetic (so that it gives -256)
[03:02:43] <SWPadnos> yeah. it's an s32=-1 or worse -100000 that would be the problem
[03:02:52] <SWPadnos> since the high 16 bits will be nonzero
[03:03:03] <jepler> SWPadnos: if the *to* type is unsigned, the conversion is defined by 6.3.1.3.2 even if the new type is narrower than the original type. It's the case where the *to* type is signed AND can't express the *from* value that is implementation defined (3.6.3.1.3)
[03:03:29] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:04:38] <mozmck1> Looks like if he wants to copy the bits directly from the 16 bit number to the lower 16 bits of the 32 bit number, the following works: v32c = v32c | (uint16_t)v16;
[03:04:49] <mozmck1> Plugged into jeplers code.
[03:04:56] <SWPadnos> I think my point was that there is a test for whether the value fits (in 6.3.1.3.2), and $BIG_INT is added/subtracted if it doesn't fit. Since any 16-bit value fits into a u32, the value is not modified during the conversion
[03:05:26] <jepler> anyway, gcc is kind enough to define what happens in the 3.6.1.3.3 case in its own documentation:
[03:05:30] <jepler> For conversion to a type of width N, the value is reduced modulo
[03:05:32] <jepler> 2^N to be within range of the type; no signal is raised.
[03:08:52] <jepler> SWPadnos: -256 isn't in the range of a uint32_t, so the addition/subtraction rule does come into play.
[03:09:19] <SWPadnos> I guess I read that as 0xFF00 being in or out of range
[03:11:04] <jepler> I don't think that's the right way to read it, because -256 isn't necessarily represented as the bit pattern 0xFF00. For instance, it'd be 0x8100 on a sign-complement machine if that most signficant bit is the sign bit..
[03:12:12] <jepler> (I wrote 3.6.1.3.3 once up there when I meant 6.3.1.3.3)
[03:12:15] <jepler> 'night guys
[03:12:55] <SWPadnos> night
[03:13:11] <SWPadnos> (though 0x8100 also fits in a U32 ... )
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[03:33:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: lies, all lies
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[04:56:15] <mhaberler_> psha: good morning; re build: see
http://emc.mah.priv.at/docs/tests/msc/README (creates better looking font)
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[05:09:27] <psha> wow
[05:09:42] <psha> today freenode has _pink_ _unicorn_ as motd...
[05:13:57] <psha> mhaberler_: hm, i hope you don't want to rebuild mcsgen in every place? :)
[05:14:00] <psha> good morning
[05:15:13] <mhaberler_> good morning! no; but it could be part of an overall scheme 'ok, I dont have a converter installed for foo->bar, so update timestamp on existing bar and continue'
[05:15:51] <mhaberler_> clearly, folks working on docs will have to install the occasional extra tool, even if only for drawing
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[05:16:36] <mhaberler_> and for the mscgen, I'll try to do a public deb file
[05:16:45] <mhaberler_> I need to learn this annyway ;-)
[05:17:29] <psha> mhaberler_: there _is_ public deb file already - both for debian and ubunty
[05:17:30] <psha> u
[05:17:37] <psha> however it gives errors...
[05:17:45] <mhaberler_> yeah, and old one with an ugly font
[05:18:35] <mhaberler_> this one's 0.17 methinks
[05:18:42] <mhaberler_> ha?
[05:18:45] <mhaberler_> libgd2?
[05:18:46] <psha> one without freetype i think
[05:19:26] <psha> i'll check debian rules file for freetype flag
[05:19:48] <psha> --with-freetype --with-png
[05:20:03] <mhaberler_> or so. yes, and predefine the font to helvetica
[05:20:27] <psha> it may be overriden with GDFONTPATH i hope
[05:20:43] <psha> rolling own package is last resort...
[05:20:48] <psha> bbl
[05:20:54] <mhaberler_> with all that asciidoc stuff, you should have freetype installed?
[05:20:56] <mhaberler_> cu
[05:29:20] <psha> surely i've freetype installed ;)
[05:29:38] <psha> but i don't understand how to give font name :(
[05:32:14] <psha> hm
[05:32:22] <psha> i've to pass font with '-F' option...
[05:33:00] <mhaberler_> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc2-dev.git/blob/9bbb095ac729906eabbdb82ed5a6327178494b8b:/share/mscgen/README
[05:33:44] <psha> no, rebuilding is not an option, really
[05:34:28] <psha> ah, finaly got it
[05:34:34] <mhaberler_> ok, the font really is random detail; the build process is the mystery
[05:34:36] <psha> -FSans
[05:34:47] <psha> and looks perfectly
[05:34:56] <mhaberler_> karascho
[05:35:24] <psha> testing with 0.17
[05:35:50] <psha> also i've get rid of 'pngsvg' block
[05:35:52] <mhaberler_> well, if that gives working diagram, fine with me - good font is luxury
[05:36:43] <psha> debian 0.17 is built without freetype
[05:36:54] <psha> http://psha.org.ru/tmp/file.png
[05:37:05] <psha> so it works but complains a bit
[05:37:27] <mhaberler_> good enough for government work
[05:37:32] <psha> http://psha.org.ru/tmp/file-freetype.png
[05:37:40] <psha> one for 0.20 with freetype
[05:37:58] <mhaberler_> fine
[05:37:59] <psha> however font height is calculated bad
[05:38:27] <psha> ah, it's \n
[05:38:31] <mhaberler_> yep, linespacing too small; could try extra \n and see if it gives an extra line
[05:39:00] <psha> i'll upload fixed .conf file for you shortly
[05:39:04] <psha> to check if it's working
[05:39:12] <mhaberler_> ok, guinea pig in standby
[05:40:02] <Jymmm> wth is that crap? I can do better ascii graphics than that =)
[05:40:44] <Jymmm> No, really.. what is that suppose to be?
[05:41:00] <mhaberler> "64Kilobytes is enough"
[05:41:11] <Jymmm> I see angled arrows and such
[05:41:43] <mhaberler> this appearance intentional ,-)
[05:41:50] <psha> Jymmm: managers call this 'message sequence diagramms'
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[05:42:12] <psha> usually it simplifies understanding message flow
[05:42:29] <Jymmm> so does a smack on the back of the head, and usually more effective.
[05:44:04] <psha> it's difficult for devs to travel over ocean/continents to help each user to understand ;)
[05:44:17] <Jymmm> hahahahaha
[05:44:27] <mhaberler> please provide an example how to insert "a smack on the back of the head" into a .txt file
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[05:44:55] <Jymmm> mhaberler_: give me a moment...
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[05:48:36] <Jymmm> mhaberler_: Per your request....
[05:48:43] <Jymmm> ______
[05:48:43] <Jymmm> (( ____ \----
[05:48:43] <Jymmm> (( _____
[05:48:45] <Jymmm> ((_____
[05:48:47] <Jymmm> ((____ ----
[05:48:49] <Jymmm> / /
[05:48:51] <Jymmm> (_((
[05:49:26] <mhaberler_> we have an asciidoc plugin for you to work on:
http://vanderwijk.info/2009/4/23/full-text-based-document-generation-using-asciidoc-and-ditaa
[05:49:43] <mhaberler_> pls report when done ;-)
[05:51:22] <Jymmm> Any of you know 'L System' by chance?
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[06:01:01] <psha> mhaberler_: i've got what for second filter block is needed
[06:01:10] <mhaberler_> yes?
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[06:21:53] <psha> mhaberler_:
http://psha.org.ru/tmp/mscgen-filter.conf
[06:22:35] <mhaberler_> counter2: this aint in my asciidoc version
[06:23:03] <mhaberler_> asciidoc --version
[06:23:04] <mhaberler_> asciidoc 8.5.2
[06:24:11] <psha> hm
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[06:24:38] <psha> maybe counter would be nice too
[06:24:39] <mhaberler_> this is why I had to fiddle the conf file in the first place
[06:25:03] <mhaberler_> wll, it boils down to auto-filename generation based on doc basename and counter
[06:25:24] <mhaberler_> I can live with a "target='filename'" thing
[06:25:56] <psha> may you try 'counter' in place of 'counter2'
[06:27:12] <mhaberler_> let me try
[06:27:39] <psha> it's ok to use 'counter'
[06:28:39] <psha> download new one
[06:28:47] <mhaberler_> set2 is missing 2
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[06:37:17] <psha> hm, set2 is better here
[06:37:22] <psha> but may you try 'set' instead?
[06:38:20] <mhaberler_> lets see...
[06:40:19] <mhaberler_> asciidoc: WARNING: tool_handling.txt: line 194: missing style: [blockdef-listing]: mscgen
[06:40:19] <mhaberler_> asciidoc: WARNING: tool_handling.txt: line 216: missing style: [blockdef-listing]: mscgen
[06:40:31] <mhaberler_> asciidoc: WARNING: missing section: [filter-image-blockmacro]
[06:40:31] <mhaberler_> asciidoc: WARNING: missing section: [filter-image-blockmacro]
[06:40:40] <mhaberler_> let me check resulsts..
[06:41:47] <mhaberler_> html: no figure, pdf: msc text in place of figure
[06:42:10] <mhaberler_> you must have a newer asciidoc version - not good
[06:47:19] <psha> filter-image-blockmacro was added in 8.6...
[06:47:35] <mhaberler_> super..
[06:51:02] <psha> hm, hm...
[06:51:29] <psha> most clean solution is to have extra config file for older asciidocs
[06:52:27] <psha> check now
[06:54:00] <mhaberler_> set2 still there
[06:56:52] <psha> either set2 or counter2 is needed
[06:57:20] <psha> both...
[06:57:53] <psha> counter just produces extra number but set (instead of set2) gives invalid target name
[06:58:55] <psha> ah, incorrect
[06:59:00] <psha> set may be used instead of set2
[07:00:57] <psha> %%#&! i have to add 15 minutes timeout between writing something and postin
[07:01:01] <psha> set2 _is_ needed
[07:01:23] <mhaberler_> ;-)
[07:01:39] <psha> counter vs counter2 is not as important
[07:02:01] <psha> you have 8.5.2?
[07:02:23] <mhaberler_> yes
[07:02:59] <psha> i'll install one from stable and check
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[07:08:36] <psha> mhaberler_: it's complaining
[07:08:40] <psha> but not about set2
[07:09:25] <mhaberler_> 'et2' is NOT in my version of /usr/bin/asciidoc
[07:10:49] <psha> i see, but it complains about filter attributes
[07:11:08] <psha> asciidoc: FAILED: asciidoc-mscgen-readme.txt: line 70: undefined filter attribute in command: mscgen -o "{outdir={indir}}/{imagesdir=}{imagesdir?/}{target}" -F"{mscgen-font}" -T{mscgen-format} -; echo " "
[07:12:08] <psha> yes, about {target}
[07:14:06] <psha> so we have two options
[07:14:23] <psha> ore one ;)
[07:17:29] <mhaberler_> it#s the missing target
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[07:30:18] <psha> have to run now, pin it later
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[07:30:24] <mhaberler_> sure
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[11:53:17] <jepler> SWPadnos: whether the bit patterns 0xFF00 and 0x8100 fit in a uint32_t is irrelevant to the question of how the int16_t -256 is converted to uint32_t by the C rules. -256 is out of the range of uint32_t. My point about two different bit patterns was to illustrate that thinking about bit patterns is the wrong way to think about what the standard specifies for signed->unsigned conversion of negative numbers, and the wrong way to th
[11:53:44] <jepler> They're *all* specified in terms of arithmetic on (unbounded) integers, not on operations involving fixed numbers of bits
[11:53:54] <SWPadnos> the wrong way to th... (your text was cut off)
[11:54:05] <jepler> …and the wrong way to think about what gcc specifies for ->signed conversion of out of range numbers (whether too big or too small).
[11:54:54] <SWPadnos> ok. I realized that I needed to not look at that any more last night when I couldn't fathom "adding or subtracting one more than the largest number that the type can hold" (or similar)
[11:55:38] <jepler> luckily for me I could just cut and paste text from standards documents and documentation, I didn't have to understand it.
[11:55:44] <SWPadnos> heh
[11:56:01] <SWPadnos> I just wrote a test program (which worked), I also don't have to understand it ;)
[11:56:19] <SWPadnos> though that's usually your job
[12:19:59] <jepler> which is my job -- writing test programs or understanding things
[12:19:59] <jepler> ?
[12:20:40] <jepler> I've barely written any code not for $DAY_JOB in 2 months :-/ they're keeping me too busy here lately
[12:33:34] <SWPadnos> writing test programs while everyone else is discussing the possibilities :)
[12:33:46] <SWPadnos> bummer (or excellent) about the day job
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