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[06:54:49] <psha> logger[mah]: .
[06:54:49] <logger[mah]> psha: Log stored at
http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23emc-devel/2011-03-01.html
[06:54:53] <psha> logger[psha]: .
[06:55:25] <mhaberler> aha, psha in debug mode
[06:55:44] <mhaberler> emc.mah.priv.at is broken
[06:55:54] <psha> hi
[06:56:00] <psha> i've pused 'forced today link' fix
[06:56:01] <mhaberler> hi
[06:56:16] <psha> it was not commited and pushed
[06:56:28] <psha> but generating proper link
[06:56:33] <mhaberler> I'll give it a stab today; search was broken
[06:56:46] <psha> link is broken - not search :)
[06:56:54] <mhaberler> aha.
[07:10:30] <psha> i've fixed deps problem in submakefile
[07:10:32] <psha> nasty typo
[07:37:56] <mhaberler> are you saying asciidoc is merge--ready?
[07:46:09] <psha> nearly
[07:46:18] <psha> html docs are left
[07:47:01] <mhaberler> good to hear, I was eagerly looking forward your doc writing skills ;-)
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[07:51:43] <psha> :D
[07:55:07] <psha> hm, preserving old html layout is not easy
[07:55:15] <psha> _everything_ is copyied to one dir
[07:55:30] <psha> so image dir structure and everything else is flattened
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[09:22:56] <alex_joni> morning all
[09:23:09] <mhaberler_> ahoi!
[09:23:25] <alex_joni> ahoi kamaradski
[09:30:46] <psha> alex_joni: i've found why deps were not included
[09:30:53] <psha> invalid var name in patsubst :)
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[10:17:31] <alex_joni> psha: cool
[10:17:39] <alex_joni> so it's looking good I take it?
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[10:27:06] <psha> not that's good but pdf's are built properly
[10:27:15] <psha> html need some work
[10:28:56] <psha> however making them one-by-one identical is hard
[10:30:29] <psha> i'd really be happy if it would be possible to have text dir structure identical to html
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[13:08:28] <cradek> I can't wait to be able to actually write/edit docs
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[13:59:51] <alex_joni> cradek: instead of lyx currently?
[14:00:23] <cradek> I don't think I even have the right OS to edit docs currently
[14:00:37] <cradek> it's such a pain I've just given up, and jthornton covers for me
[14:01:41] <alex_joni> using a text editor sure is nice
[14:02:15] <cradek> yeah
[14:02:34] <alex_joni> but nicer is the diff between version
[14:02:48] <cradek> I'm willing to learn markup, and even if not, it's so easy to just pop in and clarify something
[14:03:43] <alex_joni> it's always easy to look around for things you want to do (which have been converted)
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[17:01:35] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/2-5-branch.png
[17:01:58] <cradek> I'm considering this
[17:02:23] <mhaberler_> great, thanks
[17:02:35] <cradek> ... because your latest fix should be in 2.5, and the new toolchange code I think should not
[17:02:39] <cradek> is that what you think too?
[17:02:46] <mhaberler_> fine, I dont really care
[17:03:49] <mhaberler_> I'm really at the basics how to use this oword-sub feature; like trying to jog from gcode, which is positively non-obvious (any ideas?)
[17:04:16] <cradek> I don't understand what you are asking how to do
[17:04:53] <mhaberler_> I have gcode control over the prepare and change signals but I could also test for x+/x-/y+/y- etc jog buttons
[17:05:07] <mhaberler_> and then do something sensible in the gcode sub
[17:05:24] <mhaberler_> or touchoff, probe, whatever
[17:05:24] <cradek> I don't see how those things are related
[17:05:57] <cradek> you mean you'd write a new kind of jogging based on polling digital inputs (jog buttons) in gcode?
[17:06:11] <mhaberler_> this is my current approach
[17:06:19] <mhaberler_> it is *very* awkward
[17:06:29] <mhaberler_> I'm trying to grind the 'jog/probe/touchoff during toolchange' cat
[17:06:31] <cradek> yes, I think that's crazy-talk :-)
[17:06:52] <cradek> seems like you're going about it with the incorrect tools/approach
[17:07:03] <mhaberler_> what would you suggest?
[17:07:40] <cradek> I don't know
[17:07:55] <cradek> for linear gcode, it's already a solved problem (run from line works perfectly fine for restarting)
[17:08:11] <mhaberler_> yes.. still.. a cludge
[17:08:11] <cradek> for complex nonlinear gcode, I don't really know what the fix would be
[17:08:38] <cradek> can you say why you think that? I don't see it that way.
[17:09:11] <mhaberler_> hm, well you fall back into manual mode, but really rely on state behind the scenes
[17:09:35] <mhaberler_> but I might be overly controlfreakish here
[17:09:52] <cradek> I don't understand what you mean by state behind the scenes
[17:10:48] <mhaberler_> guess I have to think through it myself first..
[17:11:15] <mhaberler_> anyway, some other things seem to become easier; I believe I can do the racktoolchanger in gcode
[17:11:26] <cradek> yes I agree - that's cool
[17:11:43] <cradek> and perhaps auto tool length probing
[17:12:10] <mhaberler_> yes, that's doable easily; or touchoff at workpiece for that matter
[17:14:13] <cradek> brb
[17:20:59] <CIA-47> EMC: 03cradek 07master * r6e2ea638973f 10/src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc: Merge branch 'v2.5_branch'
[17:21:15] <CIA-47> EMC: 03cradek 07master * rd60210ebacb0 10/src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc: fix m66 no-wait bug
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[19:36:47] <mhaberler_> cradek: on tlo, is toolnumber 1 ALWAYS the reference tool, or can it be an arbitrary tool number? any assumptions ?
[19:38:06] <andypugh> Reference tool can be whichever one is loaded when you touch-off the coordinate system.
[19:38:31] <mhaberler_> so no number/pocket assumption
[19:38:55] <mhaberler_> I see, so it's load and then set *this* as ref tool. thanks
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[19:39:36] <cradek> reference tool is a mental construct, but physically it's whatever has zero length
[19:39:57] <cradek> tool length offsets are used because different tools have *different* lengths
[19:40:13] <cradek> so you have to measure them, compared to something
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[19:40:28] <mhaberler_> I like the 'mental contruct' part ;-). get it, thanks
[19:40:42] <cradek> that something is the reference tool, or sometimes a physical or imaginary line on the machine or tool holders or some special fixture, or whatever
[19:41:12] <cradek> you could say the tool with length=0 is the reference tool - many folks do it that way
[19:41:22] <mhaberler_> aja
[19:41:41] <cradek> for my mill, the length of the probe is 0, and tools are shorter or longer than the probe so get negative of positive tool offsets
[19:42:00] <cradek> that way I can set a workpiece offset with the probe in the most natural way
[19:43:35] <mhaberler_> just cooking up that toolchanger gladevcp panel to demo tlo; so I have a checkbutton for 'autoo TLO' and one for 'this is the ref tool'
[19:43:49] <mhaberler_> tlo after toolchange, that is
[19:44:08] <cradek> I'm not sure what should be on that panel
[19:44:32] <cradek> someone might even touch off a new fixture offset, when changing tools manually
[19:44:52] <cradek> there are 100 ways to do it...
[19:45:03] <mhaberler_> not much- led for request pending, abort button, those two checks, set g30 stc pos, set g28 switch pos.
[19:45:09] <mhaberler_> after all its just a demo
[19:46:28] <mhaberler_> this is not about offsets, it's about eating my own dogfood ;-)
[19:46:45] <cradek> heh
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[19:47:54] <cradek> I really don't understand how your recent changes makes this problem of random tool lengths (collet machines) better/different
[19:48:19] <mhaberler_> thats's not the point
[19:48:54] <mhaberler_> I'm trying to cook a M6 gcode script which does the auto tlo etc when asked by a HAL pin - without fiddling with iocontrol and warts
[19:49:19] <cradek> you can sure do it with probing
[19:49:47] <mhaberler_> yes, and then I'll go downstairs and crash my probe with it ;-)
[19:50:02] <cradek> a switch to poke with the tool, I mean
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[19:50:38] <mhaberler_> a victim candiate, too
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[19:51:00] <mhaberler_> but that's what I meant
[19:51:21] <cradek> gotcha
[19:54:49] <mhaberler_> great, timed/immediate pin reading now works reliably
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[20:07:09] <mhaberler_> bbl
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[21:16:48] <alex_joni> cradek: does that mean you branched 2.5 already?
[21:17:03] <cradek> yes I did it today
[21:17:23] <alex_joni> cool stuff
[21:17:34] <alex_joni> maybe now we can finally emrge ja3 into master :)
[21:17:41] <cradek> I didn't think I could put it off any longer, since I had changes from mhaberler that needed to be on both sides of the branch
[21:17:45] <alex_joni> I'll see with micges what the status is
[21:17:51] <cradek> ok
[21:17:59] <seb_kuzminsky> yay cradek!
[21:18:09] <alex_joni> so probably 1-2 months before 2.5.0 then?
[21:18:16] <cradek> wonder if that makes the next release 3.0
[21:18:32] <alex_joni> depends how good 2.5 is ;)
[21:18:39] <alex_joni> and how long before the next stable one
[21:18:48] <cradek> we'll leave that for the inhabitants of the future to figure out
[21:18:56] <alex_joni> martians
[21:19:02] <alex_joni> gotta have martians
[21:19:21] <andypugh> I don't know much about JA3, but I would like to see it mainstreamed.
[21:20:04] <andypugh> Needing 9 axes for a XYZW machine just seems untidy.
[21:20:21] <cradek> well you don't need that
[21:20:32] <cradek> XYZW shows up fine on at least the modern guis
[21:20:53] <mhaberler> lost in Vienna.. give me a clue: what is ja3 all about?
[21:20:55] <cradek> ja3 is mostly useful for non-orthogonal machines
[21:20:56] <alex_joni> I think andypugh meant inside TRAJ AXES = ..
[21:21:06] <alex_joni> mhaberler: ja3 = joints_axes3
[21:21:16] <alex_joni> it started as joints_axes, then evolved :)
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[21:21:18] <cradek> it involves moderate to serious config breakage
[21:21:20] <mhaberler> I guessed that .
[21:21:20] <andypugh> Aye, and defining dummy sections in the INI
[21:21:41] <alex_joni> basicly it "fixes" lots of variables and names throughout all layers of code
[21:21:44] <cradek> (the funny name is because the work predates git)
[21:21:51] <mhaberler> aha
[21:21:58] <mhaberler> functional changes?
[21:22:00] <alex_joni> and sets some basics for nontrivkins improvements
[21:22:13] <alex_joni> probably lots of hidden bugs :)
[21:22:16] <cradek> I bravely did the equivalent of git-rebase in cvs several times, changing the number each time
[21:22:33] <alex_joni> but for regular machines there shouldn't be much difference
[21:22:39] <alex_joni> maybe only for gantries
[21:22:43] <cradek> yeah, I think nobody suspect it works 100% :-)
[21:24:46] <andypugh> Currently, for example, an XXYZW gantry (not entirely unlikely, here is one:
http://www.deansmithandgrace.co.uk/icms_assets/files/Travelling_Gantry_Machine.pdf) would have displays, checkboxes etc for all the intermediate axes too, even if they don't exist.
[21:26:03] <cradek> what do you mean by displays and checkboxes?
[21:27:25] <andypugh> The Axis GUI lets you touch off, and shows position DRO values, for ABCUV axes too, in that scenario?
[21:27:52] <andypugh> Unless I am wrong. Or out of date. Or mad.
[21:28:05] <cradek> yes, I think one of those is the case
[21:28:19] <cradek> I hesitate to guess which one
[21:29:16] <andypugh> It's been a while since I meddled with Gantrykins, and I have never actually had a gantry machine.
[21:31:04] <andypugh> But my recollection is that you needed TRAJ_AXES=9 to be allowed W in G-code, and so you ended up with 9 joints in Joint mode, and vestigial axes in world mode.
[21:31:32] <cradek> yes you currently get 9 joints, but the axes are hidden (and also not accepted in gcode)
[21:32:27] <cradek> I hope we hear from psha soon about docs (to go on 2.5 branch and then merged)
[21:32:32] <andypugh> OK. I was probably confused at the time.
[21:32:54] <cradek> andypugh: it has sucked more in the past - you are right
[21:33:08] <cradek> andypugh: the suck is currently at an acceptable level for those kinds of machines
[21:33:15] <alex_joni> and less in the future :)
[21:33:21] <cradek> less/different
[21:33:51] <cradek> different/unknown :-)
[21:35:40] <cradek> bbl
[21:35:46] <andypugh> Part of it was that I was messing about with a wierd kinematics with Visteurs. We had A and B axes and a synthetic C based on the tangent to the current path. (Automatic kerf angle correction...)
[21:46:18] <mhaberler> cradek: I think psha is done, he found the subnakefile bug
[21:46:29] <mhaberler> nakefile.. i like it
[21:46:55] <mhaberler> the thing open is pathnames, might be jepler is overriden by absence
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[22:13:38] <alex_joni> hey micges
[22:13:46] <micges> hi
[22:14:10] <alex_joni> seems we could merge ja3 into master soon
[22:14:17] <alex_joni> do you know what the current state is?
[22:14:45] <micges> ja3? yes sure, I use it all time
[22:14:48] <alex_joni> last time I checked it was kinda working (jogging and such was working)
[22:15:12] <alex_joni> cradek branched 2.5 today, so master can be played with for a while ;)
[22:15:52] <micges> great
[22:16:38] <micges> but docs needs to be write for config change, I don't have time for it
[22:16:53] <alex_joni> well docs changes should wait for asciidoc stuff
[22:16:58] <alex_joni> then it'll be easier :)
[22:17:30] <micges> yes but who will know how to define ini file for tests ?:)
[22:18:56] <micges> if i find few days, I'll merge ja3 and make some info on wiki for it
[22:20:21] <andypugh> I am curious about JA3, and my garage is too cold at the moment...
[22:21:36] <micges> andypugh: from few days I have my own garage too for play :)
[22:21:48] <micges> also cold :)
[22:23:15] <andypugh> I am waiting for some circuit boards from China. Then I will see if my Resolver thingy actually works properly with shielding. (It works beautifully until the motor is powered up at the moment)
[22:23:53] <andypugh> I wonder if it is worth peddling the spare boards on CNCzone? I had to order 10.
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[22:25:28] <micges> what boards?
[22:30:55] <andypugh> Arduino shields to convert three resolvers to quadrature for EMC2 consumption.
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[22:43:52] <andypugh> I was about to order the Power Op-Amp, I am fairly sure it is not this one (blimey!)
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=7165898
[22:44:12] <andypugh> (look at the price, and it is a stock item)
[22:44:48] <micges> eww
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[22:48:29] <andypugh> I guess 30A output is quite a lot for an OpAmp
[22:49:07] <alex_joni> 30A?
[22:50:05] <andypugh> Yes.
[22:50:42] <alex_joni> :/
[22:51:10] <andypugh> I repeat, just a component I found by accident when I sorted the OpAmps in the wrong order.
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