[01:32:40] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/img/hTQW13.jpg
I've never seen one so empty...
and that's some serious wire
but no 3 phase??
heh, serious wire?
uh-oh, a wire size contest
[02:08:56] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/Lafarge_MotorLug.jpg
3x500MCM, per phase
hm, need something for scale
what's a MCM?
thousand circular mils - one of those archaic american units
1 circular mill = the cross section of a wire 0.001" in diameter, 1 million circular mills = the cross section of a bar 1" in diameter
how many zeroes in that other silly american scale?
AWG stops at 4/0
the next size up from 4/0 is 250MCM
I see it says 600KCMIL-2
the lug is rated for 600mcm, but the wires are 500
500 tends to be the largest commonly used
the increase in current rating when you go from 500 to something larger is much less than the increase in cost
I suspect that 2x250 can carry more current than 1x600
wow - the 000 that runs from the outside meter to the breaker box went better than I thought it would.. (think it was 000)
what is your service? 200A?
made the 1awg to the house seem easy
house is going to be run by the 100a breaker
[02:15:55] <jmkasunich> http://www.okonite.com/engineering/nec-ampacity-tables.html
3/0 is good for 200A
wow, the suck of large wires is even worse than I thought - 2x250MCM is better than one 800MCM
* jmkasunich wanders off to finish reading a book
* cradek goes back to ladder editing
jmkasunich: good to see you around :)
3 phase is only 1/2 a block away :)
But I don't need it at the moment. ;)
the nieghbor that works for the village was wondering why 3 phase was this side of main street. (we are 2 blocks from main street (small town)) we decided it must be load balancing.
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emcdevel/2009-10-19.txt
drat, I missed jmk
skunkworks_: how're you?
hey jepler do you have 5 mins?
if you have a question, ask it.
may be this is not a proper place to ask.. is it possible to use SAI and RTAI which comes with EMC in MONO ??
I don't know anything about mono.
ok anything abt any good ide i can use to develop emc??
the rs274ngc interpreter has a C++ API, so you can interface to them with any language that can use a C++ API.
The way we use RTAI, only C programs can run as realtime software.
I use vim, not an "ide". Again, I'm not the person to make recommendations for you.
yaa i know.. but you are much more experienced person so thought to ask you nothing else.. i am new to linux..
anyways thanks jepler..
have a nice day
jepler: good.. Think I may actually get the needed projects done before winter. How about you?
skunkworks_: I haven't been up to much interesting lately
I soon hope to have some resemblance of a workshop in the garage. Thinking of getting some cabinates from the local re-store.
is that one of those places where you can buy stuff people tore out of other houses? I love those places.
cradek has made some good finds there
yes - we have 2 pretty close by..
one is called 'the restore' and the other I think is 'habitat restore'
EMC: 03cradek 07v2_3_branch * r87ff9e32fa89 10/src/emc/kinematics/tp.c: Improve initial threading synchronization
EMC: 03cradek 07master * r746ae6a2589a 10/src/emc/kinematics/tp.c: Improve initial threading synchronization
cradek: anything I should write in the debian/changelog for that but the git commit summary?
I don't think so (and, sorry)
EMC: 03jepler 07v2_3_branch * r7c9182812868 10/debian/changelog: note new fix
does that change use only the number of revs since synchronization started? (I didn't look at the code to see when the sync_accel variable gets zeroed)
with it being so easy to get a list of changes since the last version, I'm tempted to start putting off changelog-writing until just before release
I had the exact same question, but I asked in meatspace
not vegetarian-space like the web? :)
it seems like that counter should get reset every so often though
since the spindle could be accelerating, the oldest samples would be more wrong than the newest ones
SWPadnos: it's reset to 1 when the index pulse is seen; it's the same time that revs gets set to 0
so it's emulating the position-interpolated counter feature
cradek: hm, is spindle already at speed when starting to look for index?
jepler: mumble mumble
now why can't I find an inexpensive, lightweight, 17" 1920x1280 display, 8-hour battery life notebook computer?
with a fast CPU
and a pony
a lightweight pony
hmmm. with a pony, the laptop can weigh more. good thinking
thinking you will find a lightweight 8-hour battery is funny
thinking you will find an 8-hour battery is funny
I've gotten very close actually, there's an Acer that only falls short on the screen size/resolution spec
it's $500 or $600, so it's not all that cheap either, but that's not too bad
oh, I forgot that all peripherals should have excellent Linux driver support
I could change 'net' to do this when the first argument given is a pin: http://pastebin.ca/1630210
I don't know if it's worth it
3 files changed, 29 insertions(+), 15 deletions(-)
I guess it would be worthwhile if net would also be able to connect pins to the signal containing a pin
I tend to agree with both of you -- it would tend to muddle things
ie, you do this "net pin1 pin2", and later on you do "net pin1 pin3"
and net sees that there's no sig named pin1, so it looks at the signal pin1 is connected to and connects pin3 to that
or creates a new one if pin1 is not connected
SWPadnos: that's an error as I've written it
net and2.0.out => and2.1.in0
net and2.0.out => and2.1.in1
test.hal:3: Pin 'and2.0.out' was already linked to signal 'n$0'
(it's decided it has to create n$1 since the signal name is unspecified)
I guess you could add a check to find the signal with this pin connected before creating the new automatic name
(you already have to find the pin to see if it's connected, so instead of throwing the error, act as though the person meant to spell pin1 as "n$1")
and automatic nets should be deleted as soon as they have no pins connected
(assuming it's worhwhile, that is :) )
hmmm. actually, I think this would be a useful addition
it doesn't prevent ann advanced user from naming everything, and it may help a novice user get going faster/easier
it's very convenient in eagle that I don't have to name every net
I wonder what to do with signals named like that though, when using show or list
I'd almost want them to be hidden, since they're not "important" to the user
I didn't modify anything about 'show'
right - I'm wondering if there should be a modification
you still need to know there's a connection
maybe you could do something special in the case of 2 pin nets
show the other pin name instead of the artificial net name in 'show pin' and show nothing in 'show sig'
yes, there would need to be something like another type (allnets ...), or an option (-a) to show all of them
hm, as long as users didn't depend on the made-up signal name, this lets me make linkpp just delegate to net for a bigger net removal of code
heh, or go back to the linkpp method of using the pin name as the signal name :)
[17:08:12] <jepler> http://pastebin.ca/1630232
it should be an error to use linksp/linkps pin n$###
or at least a warning
ugh, I shudder to try explaining these rules
* jepler gives it up as a bad idea
if I get a chance, I'll write an email to the dev list explaining how I think this should work
you want way too much magic for me to be comfortable
I'm not looking at the code, so it doesn't seem like magic to me :)
what's the command for coord rotation?
G10 L2 Pn R[angle in degrees]
G10 L2 Px Rddd
this is only in 2.4~pre .. right?
if you specify XY, that becomes the center of rotation?
SWPadnos: no, the system Px rotates around its own origin
each G5x can have its own separate rotation
cool.. so you can translate to rotation point, rotate, translate back
if you want another rotation
the translate back is in the rotated coord obviously
say you are at 1,1 and you want the system rotated 45 but you want to still be at 1,1
g10 l2 p1 r45; g10 l20 p1 x1 y1
or at least that's what I think you and swp are asking how to do?
[untested, of course :-)]
ok, I guess if you can always say "this is now 0,0 (or somewhere else)", then it doesn't really matter when the offset is applied
or you need two sets of coordinate offsets
one to offset the center of rotation, and the other to offset the controlled point in the rotated system
I don't think I understand what you said
it's an ordering thing. either the coordinate system origin is offset before the rotation is applied, or it's offset after the rotatip is applied
or possibly both
I understand those give different behaviors - but what was the question?
which is implemented now?
in emc the rotation is around the offset origin
g54's 0,0 does not move as you rotate g54
g54's 1,1 rotates around g54's 0,0
is there a G92-style rotation? (ie, something that is additive with the other coordinate offsets)
there is already enough madness without that
yeah, though I can imagine wanting that particular madness
what would it do?
it would let you correct for non-oriented parts, but still use rotation in other coordinate systems (e.g., to simplify some hand-written G-code)
G92 Oor something like it) would then be "this is how to make X and Y align with my part"
you mean if the part has several g5x systems on it?
and the other rotation features are still available for general use
sure, that's one possibility
for a part within one g5x, the current thing is natural
I guess I think of the different g5x as different fixtures/parts
or even one that's used several times
that's why each should have its own separate rotation
sure, and G92 would then be used for "temporary" offsets
cradek: consider your little toy with "EMC2 AXIS" in 8 orientations
cradek: what if you'd also used probing + G10 L2 P1 Rddd to get the part alignment?
the toy had the program in g54, so I rotated g54 8 times
a loop that uses the same XY code with different orientations applied
I'm rapidly losing my ability to see how they would all interact
I imagine workpiece orientation being more useful for large machines / workpieces. imagine trying to rotate a 1-ton block 0.5 degrees
not necessarily lazy people with little machines
that's why we need opengl-style composition of transformations with a stack
SWPadnos: I guess I don't see how the current system is inadequate
then it's all very easy to understand
well, it would be hard or impossible to orient to a slightly rotated workpiece and also carve four fleur-de-lis patterns using a loop and G5x coordinate system rotation
cradek: it's possible to get all the combinations of a Z rotation and a translation, but if the natural way to build them is by "stacking" then it's not so easy to fit it in
which are "correctly" oriented to the part
or like postscript gsave / grestore / rotate / translate
I bet it would work fine with a predefined "stack", it's just thinking about it that hurts :)
well, there's the zero-one-infinity principle..
with gcode you need the whole stack invertible for things like g53. it's a swirl.
oh that's easy in postscript. gsave matrix setmatrix ... grestore
(I think, anyway)
I should write ungcode
(whatever exactly it is, it's unlike gcode at every turn)
[20:25:32] <skunkworks_> http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-MILL-MORI-SEIKI-JUNIOR_W0QQitemZ150379237126QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Mills?hash=item23034d0f06
hm, it's damaged enough to get the handicap spot in the parking lot?
uh that's no fanuc
jepler: is "it got damage" like "he got told"?
I'm not hip to the way kids these days speak
I will use my super powers to predict the future: it won't sell at that price
where is LB in the US? feeling a bit dense.
(I wondered the same thing)
Did you mean:
L B J, San Antonio, Bexar, TX 78253
Here's one for JMK: http://cgi.ebay.com/Miyano-KSV-35-CNC-Vertical-Machining-Center-20-pos-ATC_W0QQitemZ110447564250QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Mills?hash=item19b73015da
almost next door
skunkworks_: I just saw one go for $2200 - it was working and in daily use (except tool changer was broken)
it was ebay but I can't find the auction now
he keeps whining about how he doesn't have room for stuff like that. I think he could disassemble it and put it in his basement.
at soem point, it gets easier to lift the house instead
good time to buy
yep no kidding
'in daily use, come see it under power' is sure worth a lot
here's a Stuart-sized machine: http://cgi.ebay.com/Monarch-VMC-150B-3-Axis-CNC-Mill-w-GE-Fanuc-15M-Control_W0QQitemZ400079113577QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Mills?hash=item5d2692cd69
err - Stuart-shop-sized anyway :)
yeah he's not anywhere near that big
not last time I saw him anyway
do you have room for a parts jr?
not if I want the car in the garage
weird. I could have sworn this auction said the tool changer broke (mechanically) so they swiped a circuit board out of it to fix another machine
oh, found it (view all questions)
"The tool changer had mechanical problems, then we stole the circuit board to use in another machine. I think the circuit board cost over $3,000."
cradek: how much did your tool changer board cost ;)
I spent about $600 for all the computery stuff
and it probably turns circles around the original control.
guts of the tool changer: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200351796226
my tool changer logic is superior to the original. it cannot lose the position of the turret no matter what it does.
what irssi version do you guys use?
afaik that may be the only major improvement
15:46 -!- Irssi: Client: irssi 0.8.12 (20071006 0939)
* cradek shrugs
I never worried about it - I'm sure they're all fine
mine has a serious bug
it doesn't properly wrap long links
are you sure it's not your terminal?
it's running in screen
* alex_joni shrugs
on the second line where it should wrap, I get text from another page/channel
an I finally see the damage in that photo - looks like it fell over onto the X motor (!)
the square sticking out under the table on the right side
I'd think it would have snapped the motor off and rolled right over, though
EMC: 03mshaver 07master * r6bd4fe3a8fc1 10/configs/smithy/ (622gecko.hal 622gecko.ini): Extend .ini and .hal files for the Geckodrive powered 622 Mill to account for variations in early production wiring
EMC: 03mshaver 07master * r27ce60afe325 10/ (18 files in 13 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://firstname.lastname@example.org/git/emc2
mshaver: jepler is working on releasing another 2.3 soon... is smithy stuff in v2_3_branch what you want?
oh I forgot - you guys do your own thing - forget it
no.I mean it's only in TRUNK
do you give a snapshot of trunk to smithy users?
what did that second report from CIA mean, "Merge branch 'master' ..."
actually, we make a separate .deb that they install with our configs
that means you made your changes based on an out of date pull of master, and so at that point history branched. your merge brings that split back together.
you can avoid that by using rebase (which means roughly: pretend I made these changes based on the latest master by replaying my changes on top of others')
that's OK? (good?)
I did pull first
it's fine - whether it's good is a holy war
'pull --rebase' probably would have avoided the merge
OK, I'll do that in the future
should we put the (now fairly stable) Smithy configs in this update of 2.3? or maybe in 2.4?
I think there's no problem adding configs to 2.3 if that's what you want to do
this is a nice idea assuming that they are actually tested again st.2.3
ow my words
So, is there an explanation of how to do that in the wiki git page?
well that's a good point
our customers are hooked up for auto updates & use the stock emc released version
oh ok, so they are using 2.3, good
there's nothing more elegant to do than copy the files into a 2.3 checkout, test package building, add, commit, and push the result.
I'll look into this...
when I switch to the 2.3 branch, by config directory disappears. when I go back to master it reappears. where does it go???
even ls -al doesn't show it as hidden...
they are in git database, and they're crated if needed
it happens fast...
git is surprisingly fast at everything
Where is the actual database?
you have the entire history of all branches of the project. you can recreate ("checkout") any of them
EMC: 03mshaver 07v2_3_branch * rd026f6f7102e 10/configs/smithy/ (30 files): Adding the smithy config files to the version 2.3 branch.
OK, that should've done it!
sure looks likely
Ugh, now back to drawing :(
if the buildbot hasn't complained by now, it must be right
I've written a gui frontend for emc single-file subroutine files which i think is pretty easy to use.
i would be interested in some feed back from anyone testing (simulator ok)