do I need to ask about the source? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84346&page=4
the "simulation with the scrollbar" thing is cool
someone should ask, but it doesn't have to be you
heh - that would be nice. (I am not very elegent)
he added some very cool features to the UI
multi-select and the scroller/simulation thing are nice
hmm.. he's using o-words
which more or less guarantees GPL source
that sphire is something I wrote - it is on the emc o-word wiki
and those aren't in the NIST manual, AFAIR
he does link to emc2 g-codes from the program
[12:55:52] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html
(under Help-> emc2 g-code)
alex_joni: you downlaoded it?
yeah, played with it yesterdau
it wouldn't run on my machine - I'm not sure what's wrong
and I don't care to fix it at the moment
you need to install Dx9c
I have that
and .net something or other
but maybe not 2.0
I remember when the guy from tormach was playing with mach - panning and zooming for a bit. ;)
mach - wow that was a slip. axis.
Mach is part ofTormach :)
(the words, not the companies)
I am even on the second cup..
post #25 is interesting
... "I am not saying it MUST be as good as the SS- it's slightly cheaper, and the SS is buggy and every day appears more and more to be a dead product since they appear to have abandoned the driver development in "Beta" state." ...
also post 26, if the guy is right about USB frame make-up
ah, and post #36 tells it all
well, I may not be diplomatic before I've had coffee, but I think I made the point. :)
totally written from scratch.
jepler_ is now known as jepler
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
cradek, did you get your spindle and vfd working?
does it work well?
whats it like holding a position like in tool change
was it a bolder drive u had?
this machine has a mechanical orient, so the vfd doesn't do anything except turn slowly until the mechanical stop engages
the old drive was yaskawa early 80s technology
I wouldn't want to try to orient the spindle with a regular vfd - they don't generally have position mode
you'd need an encoder and pid, and even then it probably doesn't work very well
mechanical orient = yay
aaah i see, i through that yaskawa used the old mag sensor to rotate to postion
I see they had that option, but this mill didn't have it
yes, this is one problems we are fiding talking to techs but hard to get out of them what they are selling
did you go for a open loop vector drive ? or is it closed loop
taking it was AC motor or was it dc
I'm running it in v/f mode
the drive will do sensorless vector but I'm not using it
you find in that mode u get good speed match (command to atchal)
I do not currently have a way to measure it
soon I will have encoder (resolver actually) feedback from the motor to emc
the drive doesn't have a mode that reads out motor rpm?
sorry with all questions just looking into vfd for mill and its allways nice to talk to someone thats been down road so to speak
jepler, it was just be a estimated one with no encoder back to drive
you can only read frequency =~ rpm
robh_: don't mistake me for a motor expert :-)
in vecter mode they work out where motor is in terms of magnets etc and get speed from tht
thats fine cradek i woudlt call most of the sales mans we spoke to experts ether hehe
not really - in real vector mode, you have encoder/resolver feedback that the drive uses
cradek: is the resover is a good place?
in sensorless vector, magic happens
skunkworks_: no, it's on the motor, which is belted to the spindle (non toothed)
I hope it will be good enough for tapping.
thats it about 20% speed error they say in sensorless, and %1 better in closed
cradek: your going to give it a try? cool
no, it's the flat-with-lots-of-little-V-things (like a modern car serpentine)
is there a gearbox?
no, only one belt ratio
yeah I bet it is good enough for tapping. it's not like it will slip.
aaah i see
I bet it will work great
skunkworks_: hope so. if not I'll get a t/c tapper from maritool :-)
cradek, will be rigid tapin at 6000rpm no problem soon ;)
wellll 1000 rpm maybe
I'd really need a braking resistor to go faster
yes all that start stop dump DC buss
currently I tap at 150 rpm with the tapmatic on the bridgeport - ugh
whats ramp like at moment then?
it's still the default 5s to full speed, which sounds very slow
the old drive (when it worked) would do it in about 1s
5s thats not bad with no feedback id say
cradek: did you connect with jmk?
I haven't tuned it much except for the basic v/f settings
yes i woudl said around 2s or just under to 6k (if goes up there) like our old fanucs
skunkworks_: yep he was a big help as usual
does ur changer drop pocket in a sep step on tool change or is it cam linked in arm action
pocket up/down is air and totally separate from the arm
that should make for a nice rapid change time, as on our random machine the pocket is linked with tool crab/arm so speed it up and it starts droping the tools out from the momentum of pocket coming down
the arm and carousel are only one speed, run by 3ph ac motors
arm is only 1-2 seconds
i see what they do these days is drop pocket down ready for arm while Z is going home, then arm is speed limit in the change of tool time
orient 1 second maybe
that's a good idea but this machine also has to move the table splash guard out of the way before dropping the pocket
get the angel grinder out ;)
be very nice to seed a vid of it in action soon
I bet it will do < 10sec chip-to-chip
what shuttle rate are you up to?
thats nice speed realy, ok its no 1.2sec by todays specs but hay
rapid is 450 ipm. I had it at 750 but had trouble with velocity loop stability.
hardly makes any difference with 22" or so max travel
do you remember the accelleration?
so ment to be a 20m machine
450 is still WAY too fast to hit estop before something happens
wait till u use a 40m machine
still think there should be a jaw stop
u turn rapids down and u still doing 20m or 10m
robh_: with emc2 you can set max velocity wherever you want for proofing - even down to zero
I often run it with the wheel and check each approach after messing with offsets
yes i like the way u have unlimited rapid speed in EMC
the 25% 50% rapid overrides are almost useless IMO
(on a fast machine)
i turn rapids down to 1/2m and leavs me free to inch in on feed
it just makes the crash a little less bad
yes, on fanucs im always on FO which is normal around 1 or 2m max then use feed override as that gos to zero which stops machine and inch it in etc on proove out, hardly use 25 and 50
these days cam proves most of concept out for us, but cam sims never run generated code so can never trust it but EMC shows up any big gcode probs just if it showed operater errors lol liek wrong tool length
ah so the use FO for rapid too
heh, yeah sometimes in EMC you see a rapid line going through the rest of the work - bad sign - good to know
no zero speed on rapid they call it FO meaning force off, whic is user settable but default is 2m/min generaly
feed over ride goes to zero which stops everything, but has no effect on rapid cap, visa versa just as EMC does it
i think the new fanucs and others are same still 18i etc
i know mazatrols are thats why its pain on 40m machine + as 25% is still scary fast
as u say
aah yes while u around (hope dont mind) other night i asked about lathe with twin turret if u recall
kind missed each other, anyways
if i call buttom W emc can apply tool lengths to that?
as its only a Z axis if u like. as apsoed to top which is Z & X but i dont wish to use both at the same time. but both are 8 stations
if you don't use both at the same time, then it's easiest to call both Z
and have the separation done in HAL
didt know if i could do that
yeah I think alex is right
right now they are bothed called Z on old control, but then it has two brains so they could do it
you can have tool length offsets on X and [Z or W]
not all three
so you could have X&Z and a separate config X&W
if you move to tool change position and make it machine zero before switching, I think it'd be possible to do in hal
just set commanded to zero for the one you don't want to move. hook emc's Z command to the one you DO want to move now
you could base it off "tool in spindle" number which is available in hal
alex_joni, mean by sep config (just confirm we talking same)
make sure emc's command is zero before you switch!
otherwise you will get a jump and a following error
this is just a matter of a few hal muxes
* cradek waves his hands
details left to the student, haha
i do know some time later i will need to use both at once
if you wanted to move both at once you have a MUCH harder problem, and you'd probably end up with two controls like before
some kind of synchronization ("ready! go!") between them, but otherwise separate
yea in 80s they needed the two becasue what they where doing etc
these days its all in 1, the just call bottom ones a diff letter
sure, but I don't see how you'd program it though
how would you do a drill cycle with one while turning a profile with the other?
seems like that's the kind of thing you'd want to do
Z and X as normal, then cal in W say
or, boring with one, outside turning or threadign with the other
shat do you mean cal?
there would be a number of things made easier by a gcode that says "expect a position change and wait for input"
details of that left to the student as well
trying find exsample but failing
gcode and axes exsamples
that is to work with one turretn and 2nd as u say
but to drill with 1 , then wait for it to finish, turn with 2nd, etc is good enough, to work on multi axes and spindle thats quite a bit of kit, £500+lathe not sure who has one near to us might know of one person i can ask
is a good question tho what does Gcode do, id exspect they might split it up on some controls then u just have Mcodes that wait for one to finish & start etc to talk to each other. abit like how our old control worked, not ment to turnand drill at same time on both but u drill with one, give a mcode to say done with that program. then top one comes in does it job, cycle goes on
for one at a time, except for the tool length offset problem, you would just use different axes with EMC
sliding head is a good exsample of multi axes lathe, two slides, power tooling, multi spindle etc
an X,Z,W machine would make fine sense
yes that i am fine with i can hack that,
you could do a drill cycle in W, then when it's done, do some other profile turning in XZ, etc
but doing both at once is not currently the least bit how our gcode works...
thats all id be looking for
no, that is why i am realy intrested to see how they do doit, u got me thinking now
if i could drill, tap in W like Z thats perfect
wait for W to finish before using X Z no problem, and visa versa
I think you can tap in W - not sure
"simple matter of programming"
that would be nice to have for 5 axis rigid tapping too
is there a W offset in tbl?
you can trade Z,W but not have both
5 axes rigid now that would give bigger exspenive controls run for money
W,X or Z,X tool lengths only (currently)
peck drilling in W?
we have that already
rigth so adding W coloum would make EMC cry as is
G17.1 G83 Z-1 ...
G17.1 G83 W-1 R... P... F...
so its pritty much all there minour few things
if I messed with tool length offsets again, I'd add them ALL
but how to specify the tool table is a big problem then
that's the real reason it's not there
oh just need two cones for two axis ;) but thats nit pickin
now you're just getting silly :-)
maybe need to drump humand editable for machine readable, so only GUI can read write
yes I think that's the answer
but lots of guis to fix
it's hard to give up the easy hand-editable we have now
yes i do understand
cant just take something away from ppl and exspect them all to love u for it or brake ppls setups etc
robh_: I think micges had a version of AXIS with 10 cones
that's the problem I have with my random toolchanger stuff
he has one machine with lots of Z's
it's different enough to make it unpopular
i throught i saw a screen shot of it on here, but i didt catch waht it was about
10 or so
i keep meaning to grab latest git and try ur random code out cradek see how it functions etc
did you add a tool error input to stop emc tool change loop?
jeff has done that, but it's not working quite right yet
"Failed to load tool 6" [program aborts]
we'll get it one of these days
off to find dinner
thats grate, i made my PLC ready when i did to reject tools that dont exsist or any change error problem to output error pin, but right now it has to finish the change ok
sure thx for ur time cradek
i better get some sleep