Hi jepler. What hardware failed?
skunkworks: the machine that runs all my stuff
skunkworks: web, email, emc cvs
so now I get to pick out and purchase new hardware, which I used to enjoy
[01:38:27] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220004
not quite what I need
it's replaceable :)
you could replace the caps on the old motherboard
I have better things to do with my time
like buy hundreds of dollars of replacement hardware, and send this stuff to the landfill
and the cost of the caps may be more than a replacement MB+CPU+RAM
presumably low power is more important than high performance
(given that "low" these days is very relative)
err, "low" in the performance realm anyway
oh I was looking at a 95W quad core
heh. so much for low power
maybe I should consider it .. I dunno
[01:43:41] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167032
it seems that for a mail/web/cvs server, you shouldn't need a lot of horsepower
though CVS in VMs may need a bit more
yes but I do need room for the hard drive and internal tape drive (cdrom-size)
oh, tape drive. hmmm
huh. the MSI wind supposedly has a 5.25" bay and a 3.5" internal bay
wow. there it is
I see that
is atom 64bit?
closest to the core2 duo I think
I don't know if it has the virtualization extensions though
I wouldn't want performance of less than half of the machine it was replacing .. http://laptoping.com/intel-atom-benchmark.html
and half the RAM
what was the old one?
Athlon X2 3800+, 4GB DDR2-mumble
at least I think that generation was DDR2, I forget
certainly not DDR3, probably not plain old DDR
at the moment my cart's got a phenom 9600 and a biostar-brand motherboard (that's the brand the office is buying these days, I guess)
does that benchmark use multiple cores?
and I have a good case and psu
I don't know
if not it penalizes both systems equally
unless that was a single core Atom
which also runs at 1.6 GHz
single core? they still make that?
for embedded, yeah
frustratingly, I don't have any other systems with the same generation memory
this other one must be DDR
.. trying to determine whether the modules are damaged or good
I've got a few GB of extra laptop-sized DDR2 sitting around
the screwed-up system will actually run memtest and it didn't detect any errors over an hour
but I don't trust that a whole lot
where's the video on that system?
I booted with pci video and it also crashes during early boot, but it doesn't scramble the screen the same way
I'm sure it means something
the PCI card probably uses more power than onboard
which is worse with screwed up caps
but only from rails regulated in the psu, I had assumed
this borrowed system reports as Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz, any guesses what family of RAM it has?
it's chipset dependent
unlike the AMDs
ok, so I know I have some ddr2 I can plug in when my new system arrives, I don't have to buy more
that's good to determine
though memory was on sale for $35 for 4GB today, I think
with a rebate though, so maybe it was $65 now and 30 back
yeah there were some decent deals
pretty soon memory will be like flash sticks - buy a cup of coffee and they throw in a gig of RAM
well, if you combined airport prices for coffee and net prices for flash, we're there now ;)
I just finished operation #1 on 54 little intake manifolds
that gets old fast
got inspired (or hired) at NAMES?
no, this is for a friend of mine
I did 18 of them for him last year
oh, the same ones as before
"boring them out", more or less
"porting" I think is the term
but that is just on the one end
carb end: face, drill, chamfer, tap
block end: face, drill, port
I just finished "face, drill, chamfer" on the carb end
well, it does sound like it would get boring after a while
they're fast enough that you can't do anything else
load part, load first tool, start - about 1 minute later, change tools, start - about 1.5 minutes later, unload part
SWPadnos: I'm looking at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138124
and some pci-express video card
SWPadnos: I read that atom benchmark page again, and it says the test is single-threaded but the "silverthorne" atom CPU benchmarked is dual core..
that looks like a good price on the motherboard, though the SB700 is supposedly slower than the SB750 for disk access
(hm I notice an atom core has much lower performance per MHz than celeron-m 900!)
but higher per watt, most likely
how much slower? I've just got a single 7200RPM disk, surely there's no motherboard it can max out
yeah, it probably won't matter
kind of like the extra couple of cores ;)
oh those I know how to max out .. for up to a minute at a time
actually alex_joni would be thrilled to have it for making ubuntu live cds
the process of compressing the main image is done in parallel
this one may have better performance, for not much more cost: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138140
it'll be a wash if I can use the onboard video instead of a card
(I don't have any post-agp video cards yet)
I didn't notice if that has the 128M of "SidePort" memory
good, the x16 and PCI slots don't conflict..
yes it does
does that mean "actual video ram"?
yes, I believe it does
1 Gb of dedicated video memory
ah crap, I wonder if my psu has the 24-pin connector..
it looks like it can also share some of main memory - I don't know if that's optional though
SWPadnos: wanna help me pick out a psu?
I thought one of mine had a part that clipped on to the old-style 20 pin connector to make it 24
but I guess I was wrong
there are adapters
but of course you can't be sure the PSU can supply the right currents since all they do is split some wires to multiple contacts
too bad you can't sort combo deals by the type of thing combo'd
yeah, that would be nice
what power do you want?
I'm thinking 300-500W should be enough, unless you expect to add a high power video card at some point
let me see if I can find a power figure for my tape drive
beyond CPU (95W TDP) that's probably the next highest item
[02:31:43] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703015
I don't envison powerful video, maybe a 2nd hard drive someday
seems the peak power of this tape drive is only 23W, which is lower than I expected
there were a bunch of less expensive supplies between 400 and 700W, that was the least expensive PCP&C one though
the lowest cost of the brands I selected was $30 or so (Rosewill, which I don't have a lot of experience with, but they seem good so far)
fwiw the old system was on a 350W antec
looks like the office is putting antec in systems, this is a 500W "earthwatts"
and I have a PCP&C silencer which if I recall correctly I bought from you
yep, they're generally quite good too
yes, I believe that's right
I think that the old system was measured at 70W idle, 1xxW loaded, but I don't know the peak. that was with the tape drive external, too
and the old system had a 65W CPU
Antec 430W for $55: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371006
ah, 550W for the same price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371016
but it's not earthwatts
(is that an efficiency claim?)
I think so
they say 80%
"up to 85" vs "at least 80"
I have a bet about which one is better at typical loads
the BP550 has a 120mm fan, so it could be quieter than the 80mm in the EarthWatts one
yeah I was noticing that
I see one is atxv2.0 and one is v2.2
and has modular cabling, for extra bling visibility
I don't know what that means
you only plug in the cables you want
I think "bling" means "shiny things", but I've never been sure :)
oh, the modular cabling means you'll lose the cables when you need them later?
yes, or plug them all in "just in case", thuse defeating the purpose
and what's really dumb on the units I've seen is that the cables aren't even interchangeable
I see that one connector is a different color on that antec 550
so you can't decide you want one more drive cable and one less PCIe cable - they're just straight through cables for the different connector types
probably primary vs. secondary PCIe connectors
they look identical except for the color .. I can't discern any keying
and nothing shows a legend for which is which
I see that the pcie connector is also red, though, and all the rest are black
4th and 8th pictures
yes, the PCIe video cards that take two connectors have a red and a blue or black one
those are PCIe
oh, hm -- you're saying the card end is red
that blows my theory out of the water
yes, I believe so
hmmm. well, not on this card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133256
but that is a cool looking card (very shiny)
yeah it's all blingish
and only $315 after rebate. hmmm
Cons: ... bland grey color. Black would have been nice
damn. I hate bland grey
oh wait, I don't actually care
ok, bedtime for me. good luck with it
"Please add antec.com to your Safe Senders list, or check your spam folder regularly. We have received several complaints that our support team never responded, when in fact the response had been routed to the recipients’ spam folders."
sigh .. ordered
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
my dsl is busted. the phone company will hopefully look at it within the next 24 hours. cvs will be down until it's fixed.
.. this is why we should switch to git at least two days ago
what is git?
nm I found it
hmm git is easier to type than cvs :)
yes, in fact that it's primary advantage
actually, the advantage I'm thinking of is that it has a much reduced reliance on a central server compared to cvs.
that would be better
this is funny "git is a distributed version control system. No, you don't need to know what that means to use this guide. Think of it as a time machine: Subversion or CVS without the suck. "
internet went down here at work yesterday - they where here in an hour - fixed in 2. I guess being a business helps.
BJT-Work: one of the problems with git is the git advocates
I buy "small business" level dsl from my isp, but the telco still treats it like home service
how is that cradek ?
git advocates seem to spend a lot of time insulting other systems and the people who use them
ok, I see now
(maybe every piece of software has those folks though)
is the security with git as good or better than cvs?
BJT-Work: which kind of security do you mean?
you can control who can put changes in your repository, just like cvs
* BJT-Work reads about git
that looks promising.
hey - cvs is back up :)
hopefully the phone company doesn't unbreak it
jepler_ is now known as jepler
Jepler: Last night I meant what failed within your computer. (hd motherboard ps?)
skunkworks: I think it's the motherboard
but I ended up ordering a replacement psu, motherboard, cpu
at least I can afford it
actually the psu+mobo+cpu isn't that expensive, it's replacing the tape backup system which *also* flaked out at the same time that is expensive
yes - tape backups are an expensive evil.
what are you using?
old system is SCSI DLT-4 35GB native, new system will be USB DAT 80GB native
aw. I have some new 40/80dlt IV I could have sent you.
80/160 will give me a bit more growing room
drives or tapes??
ah, those I have :-)
my tapes are 40/80 but my drive is 35/70
I have a drive (it is flakey scsi) if you want it.
it seems to be the scsi card that flaked out
two machines I tried it on won't finish POSTing with the card in
cradek: do you need them? I have 15 of them
thanks but I don't need them bad enough to justify your shipping them - I have probably 10 already that I'm not using. My rotation is 6 or 8 currently so I'm set for a long time.
skunkworks can just toss him in his car when he drives down from wichita
I could do that. :)
hm that's true
if you bring them I'll happily take them off your hands.
I will try to remember if we do come. (the garage is going well so I am thinking that it should be a go)
my old tapes will go to Ingrid's organization; she still uses a DLT drive and it hasn't freaked out yet
of course you're going to come
you'll be there - I can read your mind.
oh hmm - anyone looking for PCI SCSI cards?
I have a few Adaptecs of various flavors
(AHA-2940, 3940, an AAC-131 RAID card, maybe others)
oh, and an old Buslogic
jepler: what are the features added or modified for ::cb::nicer_cb (apart from the image gifs)? just curious, i haven't studied the code
dgarr: that's basically it
dgarr: tk8.4 and earlier have ugly motif-style indicators
jepler: isn't tk8.4 required for emc2?
or i mean for axis/tkemc/etc
dgarr: oh, they're ugly including in 8.4
I think 8.5 is the first version that looks "like you'd expect"
(i.e., about like windows 95)
I don't recall offhand if we have some requirement for 8.4, or whether earlier versions are OK too -- even back to breezy it's 8.4, so we're not seeing a lot of older systems in practice
i sometimes use a checkbutton as an indicator and then don't want the little checkmark
is that one of the things that's broken with cb.tcl?
not sure what you mean, for my application i reverted to the original checkbutton with -selectorcolor green for example
oh, you're referring to how -selectcolor doesn't work
I was wondering if I'd broken -indicatoron
yes that was what i was referring to
it's ok if you prefer to use tk lingo, I know both
far too many neurons spent on tcl/tk
i wonder if anyone uses hidden machinable files
I haven't figured out what's special about that checkbutton
as near as I can capture from debug prints, the binding that's supposed to pass the button event from the overlay image to the real checkbutton leads to another button event going to the image
but that makes no sense
i looked a little, comment out this line stops the bad behavior (but thec checkbutton doesnt check either # bindtags $w._button [list ::cb::nicer_cb_b [winfo toplevel $w] all]
dgarr: you must be a geek. http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/phpv1/index.php?img=01-OT2%2Fp1040189.jpg