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[00:10:04] <jepler> yay: I found a media that will at least reach the integrity check boo: it's an alpha of hardy, not final hardy
[01:05:34] <KimK_afk> KimK_afk is now known as KimK
[01:08:50] <jepler> only 661 upgrades to install from hardy alpha6 :-P
[02:14:18] <jmkasunich> darn, missed the A/D discussion
[02:15:00] <jmkasunich> IMO, trying to initiate A/D reads in advance of the need for the data seems like a path to madness, at least for some percentage of our users
[02:15:53] <jmkasunich> I have my own plan for A/D, since I have specific needs (I want to sample signals that may have significant high frequency noise and/or ripple on top of the desired lower frequency signal
[02:17:01] <jmkasunich> 16MHz (or so) SPI clock, connected to a serial A/D that continuously samples at clk/16 = 1MHz
[02:17:28] <jmkasunich> FPGA generates a 32 bit register containing 10 bits of sample counter, and 22 bits of "sum of samples"
[02:18:07] <jmkasunich> driver reads register in servo thread, takes difference between last sum and this sum, divides by difference between last count and this count
[02:18:19] <jmkasunich> presto, average value over the servo period
[02:18:42] <jmkasunich> and I just need analog anti-aliasing for the 1MHz or so sample rate - easy
[02:19:00] <jepler> I don't know if average dac-users want an instantaneous estimate or a 1ms average
[02:19:06] <jepler> clearly I know which you're after :-P
[02:19:43] <jmkasunich> well, unless they have suitable anti-aliasing filters, or very clean signals, they want an average, whether they know it or not
[02:20:16] <jmkasunich> sampling at 1KHz is incapable of handling any input over 500Hz - and if there is any, it gets aliased to lower frequencies
[02:20:31] <jmkasunich> 1KHz noise gets aliased to DC and becomes indistinguishable from the signal
[02:23:29] <jepler> makes sense
[02:24:08] <jepler> my intuition, which maybe is just wrong, that just like you'd rather get the current feedback position of an axis instead of the average position of the axis over the last servo cycle, you'd rather get a current velocity feedback from a tach instead of a 1ms average velocity
[02:24:17] <jepler> but maybe that intuition is simply mistaken
[02:24:45] <jmkasunich> the net effect of the average is to introduce a delay of 1/2 the servo period
[02:25:06] <jepler> yes
[02:25:17] <jmkasunich> if velocity is changing so fast that it makes a difference, then your servo period is too slow anyway
[02:26:06] <jmkasunich> the control loop normally has an inherent delay of 1 period (minimum)
[02:26:44] <jmkasunich> that assumes that measurements are made right at the beginning of the period, and that outputs have an immediate effect at the very beginning of the next period
[02:27:14] <jepler> yers
[02:27:25] <jmkasunich> if there is any noise in the system, you'll need filtering somewhere
[02:27:44] <jmkasunich> you could do a 500Hz analog filter, but it's inherent delays are longer than the 1/2 period that comes from averaging
[02:28:21] <jmkasunich> instead, I'd do a 50Khz analog filter, then let the averaging handle everything below that
[02:28:37] <jepler> it's starting to sink in
[02:28:58] <jepler> your application is something other than velocity feedback that I mentioned, though?
[02:29:56] <jmkasunich> yes, current feedback in a drive
[02:30:09] <jmkasunich> since the current contains PWM ripple, filtering is a big issue
[03:34:32] <pcw> jmk: you might consider min and max registers in your averaging SPI interface
[03:34:33] <pcw> that way you know the P-P noise/ripple.
[03:34:35] <pcw> You could also use the P-P for widening a halscope trace
[03:34:36] <pcw> to show the noise if int was used for general analog measurments
[03:37:07] <jmkasunich> I suppose
[03:37:42] <jmkasunich> I still don't have an intuitive grasp of how many gates are in an fpga, so I try to keep the functionality there to a minimum
[03:38:01] <jmkasunich> to me, a 12 bit magnitude comparator is a big thing
[03:38:34] <jmkasunich> but you sure could fit min and max in a 32 bit register with room to spare, reading the register resets it for the next period
[03:38:37] <pcw> A single SPI interface is pretty small, you are probably talking ~100 gates for a fairly fancy one
[03:38:59] <jmkasunich> before I got distracted I was looking at the analog devices website
[03:39:09] <jmkasunich> I already had the A/D converters picked out
[03:39:40] <pcw> 12 bit comparator is really an adder, using the built in carry chain, its small
[03:39:49] <jmkasunich> 12 bit, 1Msps, 6 pin SOT package, and I could have sworn they were under $2 each
[03:40:07] <pcw> Do you need isolation?
[03:40:25] <jmkasunich> I'd like it
[03:40:48] <jmkasunich> I'd be using hall devices for the current feedback, so I don't need high voltage isolation
[03:40:56] <jmkasunich> but noise isolation would be good
[03:41:11] <jmkasunich> I was thinking of the newish analog devices fast isolators
[03:41:22] <pcw> One issue with isolation is the isolation turnaround time for SPI
[03:41:44] <jmkasunich> the A/Ds I was using may or may not have been SPI, but they definitely did not need turnaround
[03:42:00] <jmkasunich> clock, strobe/chip-select, and a single data line IIRC
[03:42:04] <jmkasunich> wish I could find them again
[03:42:42] <pcw> OH ok 1 channel so no data in...
[03:43:46] <SWPadnos> AD1100 series?
[03:43:48] <SWPadnos> or 1200
[03:43:50] <SWPadnos> maybe
[03:43:55] <jmkasunich> ah, no wonder I couldn't find them on the AD website, they're TI
[03:44:00] <jmkasunich> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=296-19308-1-ND
[03:44:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:44:15] <pcw> You still need to deal with 2 isolator delays (CLK up and data down)
[03:44:16] <SWPadnos> Burr-Brown or TI division?
[03:44:16] <pcw> (skew is small and controlled but total delay is not)
[03:44:33] <jmkasunich> a bit more $ than I remember, $4.28 in ones, $2.66 in hundreds
[03:47:03] <jmkasunich> pcw: the new non-optical isolators have quite small delays
[03:47:37] <jmkasunich> oh, maybe not as small as I thought
[03:47:53] <pcw> With Hall effects, Isolation may be unneeded
[03:48:36] <jmkasunich> depends on power level - I'm looking at a kW or so, 300V DC bus
[03:48:41] <jmkasunich> so there will be noise
[03:49:00] <pcw> Other solution (which I am thinking of adding to my SPI interface) is a receive data skew adjust
[03:49:01] <jmkasunich> I'd rather have one power supply and ground for the drive interface, isolated from the PC
[03:50:08] <jmkasunich> is it just me, or have component prices gone up?
[03:50:41] <pcw> We dont see anything going down...
[03:51:14] <SWPadnos> I think they've gone up a little too
[03:51:14] <jmkasunich> ADUM1400, 4 channel high speed digital isolator
[03:51:42] <jmkasunich> digikey wants $6.17 at 1000 pcs, $9.88 for singles
[03:52:05] <jmkasunich> for some reason I thought those things were around $4 in moderate quantity (100s)
[03:52:19] <pcw> Thats what we use on 7I65 (plus 1402 I think)
[03:52:21] <SWPadnos> I think they were, but I could have been looking at the 10mbit ones
[03:52:21] <pcw> I think we paid around $5
[03:52:43] <pcw> The $5 was for the 90 mbit
[03:52:58] <pcw> $9.88 is crazy
[03:53:07] <SWPadnos> in quantity they're less
[03:53:13] <jmkasunich> I used one of those it the design of a cheap but accurate analog-in to analog-out isolator a year or two ago
[03:53:29] <pcw> OK being paged by SO
[03:53:31] <pcw> bye all
[03:53:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:53:35] <SWPadnos> see you
[03:53:35] <jmkasunich> by peter
[03:53:37] <SWPadnos> SWMBO
[03:53:53] <jmkasunich> crap, how did it get to be almost 11pm
[03:54:01] <SWPadnos> err
[03:54:08] <jmkasunich> at least I got my xmas shopping done a day earlier than normal
[03:54:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:55:00] <SWPadnos> I'm doing reverse christmas shopping - returning stuff :)
[03:55:20] <SWPadnos> how long did that cordless saw last - about 6 cuts?
[03:55:20] <jmkasunich> people already gave you stuff?
[03:55:30] <jmkasunich> maybe 8
[03:55:32] <SWPadnos> no, things I didn't use for the lathe haul
[03:56:03] <SWPadnos> I'll probably return those cordless tools. they're supposed to last an hour on those batteries, but it looks like they don't
[03:56:18] <SWPadnos> I'll wait for the lithiums to come down in price
[03:56:32] <jmkasunich> cordless tools suck, but when there is no plug.....
[03:56:35] <SWPadnos> yeah
[03:56:50] <SWPadnos> I've resisted for a long time, but I figured that tying down the lathe would be a good time to try some
[03:57:17] <SWPadnos> it was handy for sure, but 10 minutes or less of use and then a 1.5-2 hour recharge sucks
[03:57:18] <jmkasunich> although to be honest, I'd make 8 cross-cuts in 2x4's with a sharp hand saw about as fast as that saw did
[03:57:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:57:25] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:57:40] <SWPadnos> I brought one of those too, but didn't feel like using it toward the end of the day
[03:58:09] <jmkasunich> yeah, I was certainly feeling less than energetic
[03:58:13] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:58:25] <jmkasunich> I'm glad I didn't have to drive for the next 6 or so hours
[03:58:28] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:58:42] <SWPadnos> I realized that the dinner we had was the only one I had on the trip
[03:58:53] <jmkasunich> you didn't stop all evening?
[03:58:54] <SWPadnos> otherwise it was beef jerky and donuts
[03:58:56] <SWPadnos> no
[03:58:59] <SWPadnos> not for food anyway
[03:59:13] <jmkasunich> good thing you had breakfast ;-)
[03:59:18] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah
[03:59:29] <jmkasunich> should have taken that frozen pizza
[03:59:37] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe :)
[03:59:43] <jmkasunich> put it in front of the heater vent, yummy
[03:59:51] <SWPadnos> dried beef and sweets from my stash were fine
[04:02:31] <KimK> Congrats on your new lathe, SWP. I hope that eventually there will be a web post about your adventure with lots of trip photos, lathe photos (saw the one earlier), and specs
[04:02:44] <SWPadnos> if only I had brought a camera ...
[04:03:05] <jmkasunich> I took some photos while we were loading
[04:03:07] <KimK> Now I know you're pulling my leg
[04:03:14] <jmkasunich> swp will have to take photos of the unload
[04:03:22] <SWPadnos> I thought of it but forgot it
[04:03:40] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/swp-lathe-2765.jpg
[04:03:47] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/swp-lathe-control-2764.jpg
[04:03:53] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/swp-lathe-headstock-2763.jpg
[04:03:58] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/swp-lathe-otherside-2766.jpg
[04:07:06] <KimK> Nice, thanks! I've never seen a machine with those all-plexiglas (lexan?) "fighter-pilot-canopy" style covers, interesting. What's the approx part size and RPM? (What kind of a fast ball could that thing throw?)
[04:07:48] <SWPadnos> I think the max turning diameter is about 6 inches
[04:08:17] <SWPadnos> not sure about the spindle RPM either, but it's in the 3000-5000 RPM range I think
[04:08:49] <cradek> I think 3500 is the fastest speed of the factory setup
[04:08:57] <SWPadnos> ok
[04:09:05] <cradek> mine's set to go up to 2500 (vfd) and it seems like a good compromise
[04:09:25] <cradek> (I'd move the varispeed if I was doing a lot of very small work)
[04:09:57] <cradek> a 2x4 sawed to the right length sets the spindle gearing...
[04:10:42] <jmkasunich> cradek: you are missing the ballscrew that adjusts that? or just don't want to mess with it?
[04:10:44] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[04:11:03] <cradek> the only part I'm missing is the brake
[04:11:29] <KimK> Well, it will make a nice project. Too bad it had to get started during a record ice storm, cold temps, etc. Here in the midwest, we are expecting a warmup after Christmas. Maybe coming your way afterwards?
[04:11:30] <cradek> the ballscrew and motor is there, but I don't seem to need it, I just set it to a nice middle setting and use the two gears
[04:12:12] <jmkasunich> if you don't need full HP over the speed range, VFDs are great
[04:12:24] <jmkasunich> do you know the ratio between hi and low?
[04:12:37] <jmkasunich> my guess would be 3.something to 1
[04:12:54] <cradek> setp mux2.0.in0 .0038
[04:12:54] <cradek> setp mux2.0.in1 .0154
[04:13:04] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: dunno if you've looked in there
[04:13:16] <SWPadnos> KimK, we usually get your weather a few days later, and right now the forecasts look pretty good for the weekend (around 40 every day except Thursday and Friday)
[04:13:25] <SWPadnos> I haven't removed the tarp
[04:13:35] <jmkasunich> three phase AC motor with two pulleys
[04:13:38] <cradek> jmkasunich: so looks like 4:1
[04:13:47] <jmkasunich> driving two pulleys on the countershaft
[04:13:56] <jmkasunich> one pair is small driving large, the other is large driving small
[04:14:19] <jmkasunich> two electric clutches on the countershaft, connect on pulley or the other to the shaft
[04:14:29] <jmkasunich> brake on the countershaft, spring applied, electric remove
[04:14:48] <jmkasunich> countershaft drives one varispeed sheave
[04:15:16] <jmkasunich> then there is a floating shaft, with two varispeed sheaves (I think), and a final varispeed on the spindle itself
[04:15:32] <jmkasunich> a motor/ballscrew moves the floating shaft up and down, and the varispeeds adjust themselves to suit
[04:15:38] <cradek> yes
[04:16:22] <jmkasunich> nice arrangement IMO
[04:16:31] <cradek> I think the motor turning that ballscrew is a stepper but I'm not sure
[04:16:45] <cradek> it has crazy limit/home switches on the ballscrew
[04:16:49] <SWPadnos> needs low end torque, not speed
[04:17:09] <jmkasunich> yeah, and needs to be cheaper than an axis
[04:17:16] <jmkasunich> it is a low-precision ballscrew
[04:59:38] <KimK> KimK is now known as KimK_brb
[05:29:27] <KimK_brb> KimK_brb is now known as KimK
[07:17:27] <CIA-1> EMC: 03seb 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halrmt.c: Same fix as for emcrsh earlier - check the return value of read()
[08:30:38] <KimK> KimK is now known as KimK_afk
[08:41:16] <KimK_afk> KimK_afk is now known as KimK
[08:56:44] <KimK> KimK is now known as KimK_afk
[13:29:00] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-5.10/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:29:02] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-8.04/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:29:02] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-7.10/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:29:04] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-8.04/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:29:05] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-6.06/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:29:10] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-6.06/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:29:13] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-5.10/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:53:23] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[13:57:44] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-5.10/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:57:46] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-6.06/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:57:47] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-5.10/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:57:48] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-8.04/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:57:48] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-7.10/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:57:51] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-6.06/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[13:57:54] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-8.04/usr/share/applications/emc2-halmanual.desktop: add hal manual to the menu
[14:04:42] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: seems you managed it
[14:04:58] <BigJohnT> yes I think I did :)
[14:05:10] <alex_joni> you only need to add it to the files file
[14:05:41] <BigJohnT> emc2.files.in ?
[14:05:44] <alex_joni> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-8.04/emc2.files?rev=1.1
[14:05:56] <alex_joni> one for each arch where you added it
[14:06:13] <BigJohnT> ok
[14:06:19] <alex_joni> s/arch/distro/
[14:06:59] <BigJohnT> does that have anything to do with the order that they are put in the menu?
[14:07:23] <alex_joni> no, I think they get put alfabetically
[14:07:39] <alex_joni> those files only specify what files get included in the deb
[14:07:46] <BigJohnT> ok
[14:07:54] <alex_joni> if you have files which are not stated as such, there's an error during building of the debs
[14:09:42] <BigJohnT> hmmm 2.2.x/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-8.04 does not have the emc2.files
[14:10:47] <alex_joni> well, we haven't built packages for 8.04 sim yet
[14:11:08] <alex_joni> so that might be the explanation ;)
[14:11:15] <BigJohnT> ok
[14:12:23] <BigJohnT> hmmm trunk sim 8.04 has one
[14:19:25] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-6.06/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:19:26] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-7.10/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:19:26] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-5.10/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:19:27] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-6.06/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:19:27] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-8.04/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:19:30] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-8.04/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:19:37] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-5.10/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:21:09] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-8.04/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:21:10] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-7.10/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:21:11] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-5.10/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:21:12] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-6.06/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:21:14] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-5.10/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:21:23] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-sim-Ubuntu-6.06/emc2.files: add hal manual to the menu
[14:24:37] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepper.lyx: shorten chapter title
[14:26:18] <CIA-1> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepper.lyx: shorten chapter title
[14:26:49] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT heads out for a while
[15:47:12] <cradek> oops, John T is right. I didn't notice that was on -devel.
[16:26:38] <cradek> building emc2-sim also builds the hostmot2 packages
[16:40:25] <jmkasunich> cradek: I have a file "engraving-psfonts.tar.gz" that I think I got from you a while back
[16:40:38] <cradek> yes
[16:40:43] <jmkasunich> most of the fonts in it are .PFB, not .ttf - can TTT use those?
[16:40:51] <cradek> yes
[16:41:02] <cradek> those are postscript fonts and they work fine
[16:41:06] <jmkasunich> are any of them single line fonts?
[16:41:20] <cradek> yes I think so
[16:41:44] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/linefonts.png
[16:43:04] <jmkasunich> weird
[16:43:55] <jmkasunich> "Firefox is already running but not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the existing Firefox process, or restart your system"
[16:44:01] <jmkasunich> (which I've seen before)
[16:44:03] <jmkasunich> but
[16:44:12] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich@shoptask:~/emc2/nc_files$ ps -A | grep fire
[16:44:12] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich@shoptask:~/emc2/nc_files$
[16:44:15] <jmkasunich> that is new
[16:44:26] <jmkasunich> oops. dumbass
[16:44:37] <jmkasunich> that shell is on another box
[16:44:40] <cradek> haha
[16:44:57] <cradek> you haven't lived if you haven't accidentally shut down the wrong machine
[16:45:58] <jmkasunich> any reason all the font names in that tarball start with ^ ?
[16:46:32] <cradek> I'm sure that's how I found them
[16:47:44] <jmkasunich> odd - when I double click on that font, I get a bunch of oddly shaped dots, instead of characters
[16:47:46] <cradek> ick, they are not single line. the "l" in helv goes from Y0 to 2953 back to 0
[16:48:13] <jmkasunich> bet the / does the same then
[16:48:23] <jmkasunich> I need to engrave "5/8"
[16:48:30] <jmkasunich> s/need/want
[16:48:46] <cradek> yep they are all closed paths (retracing the path I guess)
[16:48:47] <jmkasunich> making a replacement die for a hole punch that my dad made 20+ years ago
[16:49:08] <cradek> it'll still work fine I bet
[16:49:08] <jmkasunich> I bet that is because TT defines a glyph as a path that can be filled
[16:49:18] <cradek> yes I agree
[16:49:24] <cradek> postscript is the same way I'm sure
[16:49:43] <cradek> these are font formats for raster devices, not vector
[16:49:48] <jmkasunich> I still want to add the hershey true-single-line fonts to TTT
[16:49:53] <jmkasunich> one of these days....
[16:49:53] <cradek> you need hershey
[16:49:56] <cradek> yep
[16:50:39] <jmkasunich> I dunno whether it makes more sense to add it to TTT, or just make a new program hershey-gcode
[16:50:56] <jmkasunich> there probably won't be much common code at all
[16:50:57] <cradek> well you could reuse TTT's great UI ...
[16:51:22] <jmkasunich> the command line you mean? that is a great UI
[16:52:20] <jmkasunich> well, the saw just got done cutting my blank - should stop messing with the labeling and start working on the part (first things first)
[16:52:42] <cradek> don't want to use stamps? that would be simplest
[16:53:37] <jmkasunich> yeah, but that isn't CNC
[16:54:08] <jmkasunich> the originals weren't labeled at all, the label is just showing off
[16:54:09] <cradek> I've been tempted to make a punch holder that goes in the spindle of the mill somehow, to let me punch with consistent spacing and in a straight line
[16:54:33] <jmkasunich> I made a holder a while back, just a block of steel with a groove in it
[16:54:45] <jmkasunich> I draw a line on the part and line the block up with that
[16:54:49] <cradek> that would be good enough to get them upright
[16:55:01] <cradek> hm, maybe simple is best
[16:55:21] <jmkasunich> I sometimes put hash marks along the line for spacing
[16:55:46] <jmkasunich> but that fails because it really wants proportional spacing if you are doing actual words, not just a few chars
[16:56:03] <cradek> for 3 characters you could very easily edit the gcode if you want single line
[16:56:11] <jmkasunich> true
[16:56:23] <cradek> yeah proportional is good.
[16:56:33] <jmkasunich> I'll see how well/fast making the actual part goes
[16:56:43] <jmkasunich> if I'm gonna label it, I need to do it before heat-treat
[17:00:55] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/5-8-singleline-biarc.ngc
[17:03:48] <jmkasunich> thanks!
[17:04:07] <cradek> np
[17:33:38] <alex_joni> seb_kuzminsky: hi, what happened to the other buildslave?
[18:47:32] <seb_kuzminsky> alex_joni: paul_c's buildslaves? we had a hissy slap-fight about whether or not to enable CONFIG_PCI_LEGACY in the kernel config, he refused, so i removed his slaves from the build farm...
[18:47:36] <seb_kuzminsky> * seb_kuzminsky rolls eyes
[18:47:53] <seb_kuzminsky> bbl, gotta go work on the Newtonmas presents
[19:21:40] <cradek> thanks stuart
[19:21:42] <cradek> oops
[19:21:54] <cradek> can't believe I still do that
[19:59:08] <alex_joni> heh, you'll learn eventually
[19:59:18] <cradek> maybe....
[19:59:23] <alex_joni> one too many alt-a's ?
[19:59:36] <cradek> split screen
[19:59:40] <alex_joni> ew
[19:59:49] <alex_joni> * alex_joni didn't figure that out .. yet
[20:00:08] <cradek> it's nice, but I still mess up sometimes - it's not the program's fault.
[20:00:11] <alex_joni> anyways.. back to part 2 of the christmas dinner ;)
[20:00:19] <cradek> ok, seeya
[20:19:19] <jmkasunich> odd - this time I didn't load an infinite loop or anything, but axis seems to have locked up
[20:19:53] <cradek> locked up how?
[20:20:06] <jmkasunich> no keyboard or mouse response
[20:20:40] <cradek> which pointer is it showing? what did you do last?
[20:20:57] <jmkasunich> I can mouse to another window and it will take focus, when I go back to axis, it doesn't redraw the part that was coverd by the other window
[20:21:04] <jmkasunich> normal looking pointer
[20:21:33] <cradek> I've seen it get stuck with the "busy" pointer, after opening a program
[20:21:44] <cradek> it happens more often on a very slow machine or X connection
[20:21:59] <jmkasunich> about 15 mins ago, I started the spindle with F9, (after running multiple programs and doing all kinds of other stuff), then I hit esc to stop it after filing some burrs
[20:22:08] <jmkasunich> then I wandered around looking for an allen wrench
[20:22:22] <jmkasunich> eventually removed the work, put something else in the chuck, went to jog, nothing
[20:22:39] <cradek> oh so you didn't just load a program or anything like that. it was just sitting after an abort
[20:22:44] <jmkasunich> yes
[20:22:51] <cradek> that's a new one on me
[20:22:59] <cradek> what's top say? is AXIS busy?
[20:23:11] <cradek> anything in dmesg?
[20:23:27] <jmkasunich> mouse pointer was on the touch-off button, that tooltip is displayed (and gets repainted when I return to the axis window)
[20:23:46] <jmkasunich> top has milltask and axis at the top, but neither is hogging CPU
[20:23:51] <jmkasunich> task 10%, axis 1%
[20:23:52] <cradek> any python traceback on stderr...?
[20:24:25] <jmkasunich> no - I opened emc from a shell, nothing there but normal stuff
[20:24:36] <jmkasunich> EMC has been running for a couple days
[20:24:49] <cradek> nothing weird in dmesg either?
[20:24:56] <jmkasunich> I've been doing ctrl-K to clear the backplot on occasion
[20:25:46] <jmkasunich> [39452.284511] RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task 1
[20:25:46] <jmkasunich> [39452.284519] This Message will only display once per session.
[20:25:46] <jmkasunich> [39452.284523] Run the Latency Test and resolve before continuing.<6>input: AT Translated Set 2 keyboard as /class/input/input3
[20:26:09] <jmkasunich> the unexpected delay message is old - it happens every once in a while (once per run), but I haven't chased it
[20:26:23] <jmkasunich> the weird thing is the "input: AT......." stuff at the end
[20:26:30] <cradek> yeah that is strange
[20:27:10] <cradek> your keyboard cable isn't somewhere you can trip on or yank is it?
[20:27:13] <jmkasunich> what's the easiest way to put another message in dmesg? I want to see the current timestamp, and if it properly handles the next line
[20:27:16] <jepler> is there a missing \n at the end of that message, or is it cut off by a limited buffersize somewhere?
[20:28:26] <jmkasunich> I think the message is missing a /n, I scrolled back and found another instance with a different thing tacked on the end
[20:30:28] <jmkasunich> keyboard cable is tie-wrapped and routed from the board to the PC, it didn't get whacked or anything
[20:30:35] <jmkasunich> and when I'm in another shell, it seems to work fine
[20:31:32] <jmkasunich> does the fact that the touch-off button tooltip gets redrawn when I switch back to the axis window mean anything?
[20:32:02] <jmkasunich> the portion of the preview window that was covered by my shell doesn't redraw at all
[20:32:18] <jmkasunich> the non-preview parts that were covered wind up solid gray
[20:32:23] <jmkasunich> except for that tooltop
[20:33:03] <jmkasunich> tip
[20:33:31] <jmkasunich> I just realised that the tooltip is being drawn even when my shell has focus - it draws right on top of the shell
[20:36:37] <jmkasunich> 2118 PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
[20:36:37] <jmkasunich> 7 jmkasuni 15 0 6404 1800 1332 S 10.6 0.7 133:40.68 milltask
[20:36:37] <jmkasunich> 21188 jmkasuni 15 0 55376 32m 5444 S 1.0 13.1 2364:24 axis
[20:37:06] <jmkasunich> the time consumed by axis is incrementing (slowly)
[20:39:13] <jmkasunich> any thoughts or info requests, or should I just kill it and get on with life?
[20:42:16] <CIA-1> EMC: 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/rtapi/rtai_rtapi.c: add missing newline
[20:42:49] <cradek> jmkasunich: I'm clueless, sorry
[20:43:14] <CIA-1> EMC: 03jmkasunich 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/src/rtapi/rtai_rtapi.c: add missing newline
[20:47:26] <jepler> if it's not too late, killing axis with SIGINT might produce a traceback on stdout that I'd take a look at it
[20:47:30] <jepler> other than that I have no ideas either
[20:47:46] <jmkasunich> I just tried a plain kill, and it didn't die
[20:47:59] <jmkasunich> so, its not to late
[20:49:35] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich@shoptask:~$ ps -A | grep axis
[20:49:35] <jmkasunich> 21188 pts/0 1-15:24:34 axis
[20:49:35] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich@shoptask:~$ kill -s 2 21188
[20:49:35] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich@shoptask:~$ ps -A | grep axis
[20:49:35] <jmkasunich> 21188 pts/0 1-15:24:34 axis
[20:49:36] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich@shoptask:~$
[20:49:38] <jmkasunich> stubborn
[20:49:50] <jmkasunich> am I doing something wrong?
[20:50:17] <jepler> not that I se
[20:50:17] <jepler> e
[20:50:21] <cradek> same
[20:51:52] <jmkasunich> does axis intentionally catch some signals, so it can clean up?
[20:53:22] <jmkasunich> kill 9 got it
[20:53:55] <jmkasunich> there are tracebacks on the shell, but they are all reporting "Keyboard Interrupt", I suspect they are axis refusing my earlier kill attempts
[20:54:19] <jepler> yeah, that's the traceback I wanted to see
[20:55:01] <jmkasunich> just a sec
[20:56:04] <jmk-st> Exception in Tkinter callback
[20:56:04] <jmk-st> Traceback (most recent call last):
[20:56:04] <jmk-st> File "/usr/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call__
[20:56:04] <jmk-st> return self.func(*args)
[20:56:04] <jmk-st> File "/usr/bin/axis", line 2533, in task_stop
[20:56:05] <jmk-st> c.abort()
[20:56:07] <jmk-st> KeyboardInterrupt
[20:56:09] <jmk-st> /usr/bin/emc: line 607: 21188 Killed $EMC2_BIN_DIR/$EMCDISPLAY -ini $INIFILE $EMCDISPLAYARGS $EXTRA_ARGS
[20:56:25] <jepler> taking that at face value, it was trying to send an 'abort' but was stuck
[20:56:38] <jepler> or at least it was trying to send an abort right when the signal arrived..
[20:56:52] <jmkasunich> the section from Execption to KeyboardInterrupt was repeated 4 times, once for each kill attempt
[20:58:42] <jmkasunich> I'm half tempted to reboot before I do anything else, just on general principles
[21:47:09] <CIA-1> EMC: 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: degression is not a typo
[21:47:43] <jepler> check 2.2 branch too?
[21:47:59] <cradek> jepler: I did; it's not wrong there
[21:48:02] <jepler> ok
[22:04:59] <BigJohnT> thanks for catching that cradek
