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[02:48:52] <CIA-37> EMC: 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile.modinc.in: fix building with -j
[03:00:45] <cradek> jepler: I think at-speed might be like pid, where there's a proportion but with a minimum cutoff: like "within 5%, or within 10 rpm"
[03:00:54] <cradek> not pid, I meant ferror
[03:06:36] <jepler> that might be
[03:07:28] <cradek> if it's signed (I forget) you want the "within 10" to only be true if the signs match
[03:08:05] <cradek> with analog +/- it's easy to have the balance off and ask for +20rpm and get -20
[03:08:19] <cradek> err whatever numbers, you know
[03:09:17] <cradek> I got that with very slow rigid taps on the mazak - it wouldn't reverse because -0.small volts was still seen as positive
[03:15:41] <jmkasunich> I remember that
[03:15:54] <jmkasunich> needs a PID loop for speed, using the encoder for feedback
[03:20:12] <cradek> jmkasunich: I tried that here - not very successful - goes nuts when index resets it - hard to have one tuning for both gears
[03:20:59] <jmkasunich> ah
[03:21:24] <cradek> for one gear it worked pretty ok as long as I didn't use index
[03:21:24] <jmkasunich> the index problem - needs a velocity output from the driver that is designed to ignore index
[03:21:28] <jmkasunich> dunno how possible that is
[03:21:44] <cradek> maybe drivers with velocity out do that right- but mesa doesn't have one
[03:21:50] <jmkasunich> yet
[03:22:16] <jmkasunich> it's hard to do a good velocity loop anyway, because of quantization error
[03:22:44] <cradek> yes I run my spindle speed ddt's thread very slow.
[03:22:59] <cradek> .1 second maybe it is
[03:23:33] <cradek> I put the most naive velocity output in the mesa driver - it was unusable
[03:24:16] <jmkasunich> I have to get myself back into the mesa stuff
[03:24:52] <jmkasunich> peter and I discussed a hw config for the encoder that would allow a very nice velocity fb, dunno if that is what he actually did in hm2 or not
[03:25:16] <cradek> that would be slick.
[03:25:16] <jmkasunich> I might have a mission tomorrow - my bro is interested in this:
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/tls/893107901.html
[03:26:14] <jmkasunich> I haven't seen a mill-drill with varispeed sheaves before
[03:28:17] <cradek> what do you see that means varispeed? the weird three handled crank thing?
[03:28:31] <jmkasunich> in the front top, yes
[03:28:36] <cradek> that might be a real albrecht...
[03:29:47] <jmkasunich> in this pic you can read "spindle speed" on the handle in front
[03:29:48] <jmkasunich> http://mcmototech.com/ebay/shop/shop-tools-004.jpg
[03:29:50] <cradek> think two of you can just pick this up?
[03:29:56] <jmkasunich> no, 600 lbs
[03:30:31] <cradek> ah
[03:30:53] <jmkasunich> I think I'm gonna go inspect it tomorrow, if all is good, I'll either load onto my truck and bro can come fetch later, or I'll put a deposit and bro will come on sunday and we'll go pick it up
[03:30:59] <jmkasunich> bro is about 100 miles away
[03:31:14] <jmkasunich> mill is about 30 miles from me - I'm on the east side, mill is far west
[03:31:37] <cradek> sounds fun
[03:31:45] <jmkasunich> better pic of the tooling:
http://mcmototech.com/ebay/shop/shop-tools-005.jpg
[03:32:09] <jmkasunich> seller has the machine on ebay, buy-it-now, same price, no auction option, ends tomorrow
[03:32:14] <cradek> ER25?
[03:32:17] <jmkasunich> that's how we found the pics
[03:32:33] <jmkasunich> that collet chuck looks a lot like my ER-20s
[03:32:35] <cradek> ah, your bro could just buy it and pay for it that way then - no screwing around
[03:32:56] <cradek> wonder what the drift is for
[03:33:10] <jmkasunich> we were wondering that too
[03:33:24] <jmkasunich> re: buy thru ebay - that means ebay gets a cut
[03:33:37] <jmkasunich> he found it on craigslist first, why should ebay get any of the $
[03:34:06] <cradek> I was thinking that was a simple way he could be 100% guaranteed to get it.
[03:34:28] <cradek> but, you said inspect etc. forget it.
[03:34:28] <jmkasunich> well, until I see it, he doesn't want to get it
[03:34:34] <cradek> right
[03:34:49] <jmkasunich> we're not sure of the speed range, it looks like there might be a countershaft, so it might be slow
[03:35:10] <jmkasunich> http://mcmototech.com/ebay/shop/shop-tools-007.jpg
[03:35:27] <cradek> the chuck is real - I can see it in -005
[03:35:53] <cradek> if it's good, that's a very nice bonus
[03:35:59] <jmkasunich> indeed
[03:36:49] <cradek> so you think it's one fixed pulley ratio (who knows what?) and a varispeed
[03:36:58] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:37:14] <jmkasunich> if it won't go up to at least 2000 RPM, preferrably 2500, it will be limited for small cutters
[03:37:42] <cradek> you could adjust the motor pulley
[03:37:55] <jmkasunich> true
[03:38:13] <jmkasunich> I'm hoping it's just built that way because they needed a place to put the cone pulley springs or something
[03:38:20] <jmkasunich> not because they stepped it down by 5:1
[03:38:33] <cradek> yeah
[03:39:00] <jepler> my torture test looks successful -- in one thread I put numbers in a specific form in a float (double) pin and in another thread I read it back and make sure it's a number in that form (out = i + i * (1. / 4294967296.); i is an integer). it's run for quite awhile without every reading an improper number.
[03:39:24] <cradek> slick
[03:39:32] <jmkasunich> jepler: maybe tomorrow when my brain is working again I'll ponder what you've written
[03:39:35] <jepler> (that specific number has some bits set in both 32-bit halves of a float, unless I screwed up)
[03:39:40] <jepler> jmkasunich: heh, ok
[03:40:03] <jmkasunich> I had a lot of frazzle today at work
[03:41:13] <cradek> yay, it's a weekend
[03:41:24] <jmkasunich> thank $deity
[03:41:31] <cradek> not that that means I get to work any less, of course
[03:41:45] <jmkasunich> obtw, the xkcd was very appropriate
[03:41:56] <cradek> jmkasunich: can a 1hp 110v motor like that reverse?
[03:41:59] <jmkasunich> not looking forward to that mess
[03:42:00] <jepler> 'night all
[03:42:03] <cradek> heh, I thought you'd like it
[03:42:06] <jmkasunich> night jeff
[03:42:06] <cradek> goodnight
[03:42:19] <jmkasunich> cradek: yes, but you have to wait for it to stop first
[03:43:36] <jmkasunich> the start winding polarity determines the starting direction, once its up to speed the centrifugal switch disconnects that winding
[03:43:39] <cradek> ah, that's ok, you could still tap
[03:43:51] <jmkasunich> the main winging doesn't care which way it is turning
[03:43:59] <jmkasunich> no way I'd tap with single pnase
[03:44:01] <jmkasunich> phase
[03:44:34] <cradek> oh right, you've had trouble with your caps...
[03:44:47] <jmkasunich> if you re-apply power (even with the start winding polarity reversed) before the centrifugal switch has closed, it will just speed back up in the original direction
[03:46:19] <jmkasunich> the procedure would be "hit stop, wait as it coasts down, until you hear the centrifugal switch click, then hit reverse"
[03:46:39] <jmkasunich> if you are working close to the bottom of a blind hole, or the end of the threads on the tap, you are gonna be anxious
[03:46:59] <jmkasunich> only takes hitting reverse a split second too early, and it will forward full speed into the bottom of the hole
[03:47:03] <cradek> heh, yep, REVERSE! REVERSE!
[03:47:24] <jmkasunich> single phase motors absolutely suck
[03:47:43] <jmkasunich> their only redeeming quality is that you can plug them in to a normal wall outlet and the spin
[03:47:48] <cradek> heh
[03:47:50] <jmkasunich> they spin
[03:48:52] <cradek> what is the crank on the milldrill? raise/lower the head?
[03:48:59] <jmkasunich> on the left side? yes
[03:49:32] <jmkasunich> there is a rack on the side of the column, similar to on newer large drill presses for the table
[03:50:23] <cradek> can't move it and keep your position though, since it's round
[03:50:27] <jmkasunich> right
[03:50:58] <jmkasunich> there are tricks to deal with that
[03:51:18] <jmkasunich> one clever hack is to mount a laser pointer to the head, and a mirror to a far-away wall
[03:51:38] <jmkasunich> if the spot goes 10 feet, hits the mirror, and comes back 10 feet to a target on the head, you have a 20 foot lever arm
[03:51:58] <jmkasunich> distance from column center to spindle center is less than one foot
[03:51:59] <cradek> heh, cool
[03:51:59] <jepler> bahah
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=787
[03:52:14] <jmkasunich> so if you can repeat the spot to 50 thou, you can repeat the spindle to a couple thou
[03:53:17] <cradek> jepler: oooops
[03:53:30] <jmkasunich> funny
[06:27:56] <CIA-37> EMC: 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/near.comp: good for determining spindle-at-speed?
[06:31:04] <CIA-37> EMC: 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/changelog: a few more new features
[10:18:04] <CIA-37> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/ladder/classic_ladder.lyx: fix word out of place
[10:58:08] <CIA-37> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/common/System_Requirements.lyx: typo
[11:13:54] <CIA-37> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/common/Stepper_Diagnostics.lyx: some basic diagnostics
[12:25:35] <CIA-37> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/ (Master_Integrator.lyx Submakefile docs.xml index.tmpl): update html and minor fix on MI
[12:26:58] <CIA-37> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/ladder/ladder_examples.lyx: if I hurry up and get these files added before jepler gets up...
[12:28:25] <CIA-37> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/ladder/images/ (3 files): the rest of the files I should have added first
[13:37:40] <CIA-37> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/emc2hal.lyx: update motion
[13:44:58] <CIA-37> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/Master_Integrator.lyx: minor edit
[13:58:12] <BigJohnT> does motion.tooloffset.w x z show the offset from the tool table?
[14:02:15] <jepler> it shows the offset in effect; it could come from the tool table (g43 active), or it could come from the gcode (g43.1 active)
[14:02:27] <BigJohnT> ok thanks
[14:05:20] <cradek> I spent much more time coming up with the name "near" than writing that component
[14:05:48] <cradek> I sitll don't like the name - but I could not think of one word that really meant "rougly equal"
[14:07:16] <BigJohnT> motion.current-vel is the velocity of the tool?
[14:07:44] <cradek> sort of - it gets hairy when there are rotaries involved
[14:08:16] <BigJohnT> trying to come up with a description for the manual...
[14:08:48] <cradek> it's true it's the velocity - the only problem is it changes units depending on which things are moving.
[14:10:22] <BigJohnT> one more then I have to go...
[14:10:48] <BigJohnT> motion.spindle-speed-in is a way to set the spindle speed?
[14:11:47] <jmkasunich> no, it is feedback of the actual speed
[14:11:48] <BigJohnT> motion.distance-to-go is the distance remaining in the current move?
[14:12:00] <jmkasunich> spindle-speed-in is used for feed-per-rev
[14:12:10] <BigJohnT> ok
[14:15:33] <CIA-37> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/emc2hal.lyx: a few more updates to motion
[14:15:36] <BigJohnT> gotta go ttul
[20:41:22] <CIA-37> EMC: 03seb 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile: (log message trimmed)
[20:41:22] <CIA-37> EMC: This splits the hostmot2 firmware out from the emc2.deb package, per Jeff's suggestion.
[20:41:22] <CIA-37> EMC: emc2.deb now Recommends emc2-firmware.deb, so the firmware gets installed
[20:41:22] <CIA-37> EMC: by default if a user installs emc2.deb via apt, but a user can uninstall
[20:41:22] <CIA-37> EMC: the emc2-firmware package without breaking emc2.deb.
[20:41:22] <CIA-37> EMC: emc2-firmware.deb installs no files, but Recommends
[20:41:24] <CIA-37> EMC: emc2-firmware-mesa-{5i20,7i43}-hostmot2.deb. This means by default
[20:41:32] <CIA-37> EMC: 03seb 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/ (control.in emc2.files.in): (log message trimmed)
[20:41:32] <CIA-37> EMC: This splits the hostmot2 firmware out from the emc2.deb package, per Jeff's suggestion.
[20:41:32] <CIA-37> EMC: emc2.deb now Recommends emc2-firmware.deb, so the firmware gets installed
[20:41:34] <CIA-37> EMC: by default if a user installs emc2.deb via apt, but a user can uninstall
[20:41:36] <CIA-37> EMC: the emc2-firmware package without breaking emc2.deb.
[20:41:38] <CIA-37> EMC: emc2-firmware.deb installs no files, but Recommends
[20:41:40] <CIA-37> EMC: emc2-firmware-mesa-{5i20,7i43}-hostmot2.deb. This means by default
[20:41:50] <CIA-37> EMC: 03seb 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/ (2 files): Maybe it would help if i added the .files files for the new .debs
