#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-12-20

[01:12:10] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: perf board without copper pads.. Old school :)
[01:31:26] <jmkasunich> thats me
[01:31:31] <jmkasunich> old school all the way
[01:32:37] <jmkasunich> I realized late last night that I forgot a feature
[01:32:46] <jmkasunich> I have LEDs for the relays, but not for the opto inputs
[01:34:00] <skunkworks> can't you add them? Its perfboard ;)
[01:34:33] <jmkasunich> its kinda crowded in that area now
[01:34:42] <jmkasunich> and it sucks to rework perfboard
[01:35:27] <jmkasunich> I just got my order from automation direct, and theres this big bold warning:
[01:36:00] <jmkasunich> "before connecting this product to the power supply, read the instrunctions at <url>"
[01:36:14] <jmkasunich> the product in question is a door mounted disconnect switch handle
[01:36:26] <jmkasunich> it has no power terminals
[01:37:24] <rayh> That the little rotary handle with the square stock to connect to the disconnect.
[01:37:31] <skunkworks> heh
[01:37:53] <jmkasunich> right
[01:38:06] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: this shoptask seems to have a movable head
[01:38:08] <skunkworks> this shoptask seems to have a movable head.
[01:38:16] <jmkasunich> I just hope it fits my disconnect
[01:38:23] <skunkworks> wrong paste
[01:38:32] <jmkasunich> the newer ones the head goes up and down
[01:38:33] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19058
[01:38:35] <skunkworks> ah
[01:38:37] <skunkworks> ok
[01:38:44] <jmkasunich> the maker realised how badly the fixed head sucks
[01:38:56] <skunkworks> this guy seems to be wanting to build a trunion table for it also
[01:39:47] <jmkasunich> the poppabear guy?
[01:39:52] <skunkworks> yah
[01:40:06] <jmkasunich> he was at the CNC workshop this year, I talked to him for a while about emc and shoptasks
[01:40:26] <skunkworks> really? cool
[01:40:43] <skunkworks> small world
[01:55:51] <jmkasunich> damn - old disconnect shaft (for which I don't have a handle) is 0.236 (6mm) square
[01:56:15] <jmkasunich> new one is 0.191 square - a hair under 5mm
[01:56:16] <SWPadnos> and you've got a 1/4" knob?
[01:56:19] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[01:56:49] <jmkasunich> I bet it would be easier to make the last 3/4" of the old shaft be 5mm than to try to attach the new shaft
[01:57:10] <SWPadnos> do you just need an extension to the old one?
[01:57:17] <rayh> If you run a file backwards it will add metal.
[01:57:32] <SWPadnos> just use the small square file as the shaft :)
[01:57:57] <jmkasunich> swp - duh, I almost forgot the length issue
[01:58:07] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure about length to be honest
[01:58:22] <jmkasunich> the old one is probably close to long enough
[01:58:31] <jmkasunich> but its hard to measure properly
[01:58:40] <SWPadnos> it seems like the few disconnects I have have enough wiggle room in the setscrew that a 1mm undersized shaft wouldn't be a problem
[01:58:58] <SWPadnos> leave the knob off the panel and look through the hole when you close it
[01:59:02] <jmkasunich> on this handle the shaft is a slip fit in the handle
[01:59:17] <SWPadnos> oh right - the handle end is that way
[01:59:26] <SWPadnos> duct tape? :)
[01:59:45] <SWPadnos> put a big blob of solder on the end and file that square
[01:59:47] <jmkasunich> regarding length - there isn't a hole yet, thats why its hard to measure
[02:00:00] <SWPadnos> oh - then try to close the panel, and see if there's interference :)
[02:00:07] <SWPadnos> if so, it's long enough
[02:00:10] <jmkasunich> actually I'm most in favor of filing the old shaft
[02:00:14] <jmkasunich> it doesn't interfere
[02:00:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm. then it may be too short
[02:00:30] <jmkasunich> but the new handle sticks thru the door, so it _might_ just be long enough
[02:00:44] <SWPadnos> yep - one way to find out
[02:00:47] <jmkasunich> doesn't stick thru much tho, maybe 1/4"
[02:00:56] <jmkasunich> I just marked the door for the hole
[02:01:19] <SWPadnos> so you're using the old knob but the new disconnect?
[02:01:42] <jmkasunich> no, using dumpster disconnect and bought the knob (and a new shaft that fits the knob)
[02:02:05] <jmkasunich> the old shaft can be removed from the disconnect by pulling a pin and sliding it out (it fits in a square hole)
[02:02:12] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. and the old disconnect has a larger hole than the new shaft
[02:02:22] <jmkasunich> ype
[02:02:37] <jmkasunich> if the old shaft is long enough I can just take it from 6mm down to 5 by filing
[02:02:51] <SWPadnos> that part would be compatible with the new thinner shaft, as longh as the pin isn't too big compared to the shaft width
[02:02:55] <SWPadnos> right
[02:03:01] <jmkasunich> if it isn't long enough (and its not looking good) then I have to figure out how to make the skinny shaft work
[02:03:08] <jmkasunich> or get a longer piece of 6mm square rod
[02:03:45] <jmkasunich> NEFS
[02:04:18] <SWPadnos> NEFS?
[02:04:28] <jmkasunich> nuttin's ever effin' simple
[02:05:26] <SWPadnos> ah :)
[02:05:43] <jmkasunich> we say that a lot at work
[02:06:09] <SWPadnos> heh. I should have noticed the usage of most of the letters in SNAFU
[02:07:04] <jmkasunich> well, I have to put a 7/8 hole in a piece of 16GA steel that is too big to bring to drill press or any other stationary tool
[02:07:46] <jmkasunich> the only thing worse that a unibit in a hand drill motor is every other way of making that hole with a hand drill motor
[02:09:43] <SWPadnos> no chassis pucnh?
[02:09:46] <SWPadnos> punch
[02:11:12] <skunkworks> unibit? stepped drill?
[02:11:19] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:11:26] <skunkworks> I like those..
[02:11:42] <skunkworks> * skunkworks has used them a lot in hand drills..
[02:11:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:11:54] <jmkasunich> skunkworks the're nice in aluminum on a drill press
[02:11:58] <SWPadnos> much easier on plastic than heavy steel though
[02:12:08] <jmkasunich> not so nice drilling tough steel on your knees in a cramped space
[02:12:40] <skunkworks> heh. yes. I like Aprox 24v cordless drill with a nice settable clutch. (so you don't rip your arm off)
[02:13:10] <skunkworks> or break the shank of the drill
[02:13:28] <jmkasunich> I think my "unibit" isn't the real thing either
[02:13:32] <jmkasunich> it has two flutes
[02:13:49] <jmkasunich> and if I recall correctly, the thing it is best at is turning torque into heat
[02:14:18] <skunkworks> heh - I think we had some lennox(sp) ones.
[02:14:48] <skunkworks> easy to lose though
[02:18:29] <skunkworks> http://www.toolup.com/productinfo.asp?id=vb7&manuf=lenox
[02:22:15] <fenn> power nibbler
[02:23:31] <fenn> this one actually works better than you'd expect for a HF tool (or at least the batch i got did) http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46061
[02:25:45] <skunkworks> we have a manual one like that here at work. I do borrow it from time to time to tweek computer cases ;)
[02:28:14] <skunkworks> jeeze - I need an auto tape loader for this server
[02:30:11] <jmkasunich> well, that was a heap of fun
[02:30:21] <jmkasunich> I managed to not break any fingers or wrists
[02:31:10] <jmkasunich> burned the paint off the steel around the hole - that thing has so much friction
[02:32:14] <jmkasunich> every time the door bounced the cabined blew a smoke rung
[02:32:16] <jmkasunich> ring
[02:32:42] <SWPadnos> sounds like me drilling stainless
[02:32:50] <skunkworks> someone should make hand drills with coolant
[02:33:11] <jmkasunich> if it was stainless I don't think I would have even tried
[02:33:42] <SWPadnos> heh - I had no choice when I did it - I was installing a filtered faucet
[02:33:49] <SWPadnos> nice stainless sink
[02:33:54] <jmkasunich> how think was the sheet?
[02:34:08] <SWPadnos> dunno - between 12 and 20 gauge
[02:34:16] <SWPadnos> a standard kitchen sink
[02:34:24] <jmkasunich> thats a huge range
[02:34:31] <jmkasunich> and a sink is a lot closer to 20 than 12
[02:34:31] <SWPadnos> only about a factor of two ;)
[02:34:55] <SWPadnos> of course, I was stupid enough to do it with a hole saw ;)
[02:35:01] <jmkasunich> 12 is almost 1/8, 16 is 1/16, and 20 is probably about 40 thou
[02:35:11] <SWPadnos> but one that was supposedly for metal
[02:35:22] <jmkasunich> I totally destroyed a 3/8 bit drilling about 12 GA 316 stainless in a drill press
[02:35:22] <SWPadnos> oh - I thought it was close to 1/gauge inches
[02:35:44] <jmkasunich> nothing that simple
[02:35:51] <SWPadnos> so 1/20 = 50 thou, but 1/12 ~= 85 thou
[02:35:54] <SWPadnos> of course not
[02:36:18] <jmkasunich> I managed to drill 3 of the 4 required holes, by running it slow and really bearing down (this was on a drill press()
[02:36:37] <jmkasunich> on hole #4 I let up for just a fraction of a second, then pushed again
[02:37:00] <jmkasunich> in that fraction the stuff work hardened, and when I pushed again I watched the tip of the bit turn red and literally crumble
[02:37:12] <SWPadnos> you must have a much stronger drill press motor than mine :)
[02:37:37] <jmkasunich> it was actually a mill-drill at the shop of the guy who owned the boat
[02:37:50] <jmkasunich> and it was belted down to a couple hundred RPM
[02:37:54] <SWPadnos> ah - way heavier duty than the Sears benchtop I have (1/3 HP) :)
[02:38:47] <jmkasunich> that hole was almost all the way thru, it was already sort of bulging on the far side
[02:39:01] <SWPadnos> bummer
[02:39:01] <jmkasunich> and there wasn't a thing we could do with it - a file wouldn't even touch that spot
[02:39:07] <jmkasunich> had to scrap it and start over
[02:39:11] <SWPadnos> bummer
[02:39:15] <SWPadnos> big bummer
[02:39:33] <jmkasunich> fortunately the parts weren't too complex
[02:39:51] <jmkasunich> a strap about 1-1/2 wide x 4 long, rounded ends, with a hole in each end
[02:40:03] <jmkasunich> "extensions" for part of the standing riggin on a sailboat
[02:40:14] <jmkasunich> two pieces
[02:40:25] <jmkasunich> so one was already done when the other one became scrap
[02:40:34] <SWPadnos> heh - oops
[02:40:55] <jmkasunich> well, that means I only had to redo one piece and two holes, not four holes
[02:41:05] <SWPadnos> that's a good thing
[02:41:52] <SWPadnos> the hole saw got completely dulled on the one hole. I returned it to Home Depot for replacement, because it only made one hole, and it said it was for metals :)
[02:42:19] <jmkasunich> something tells me they weren't expecting stainless
[02:42:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:42:51] <jmkasunich> I've had a deep and abiding dislike for SS in general and 316 in particular ever since that incident
[02:42:59] <SWPadnos> though if you think about it, putting a hole in the sink is probably one of the more common reasons for cutting metal in the average household
[02:43:20] <SWPadnos> maybe in doors too, for deadbolts
[02:43:23] <jmkasunich> the _average_ household doesn't install sinks these days
[02:43:38] <jmkasunich> and even non-average households buy sinks with the holes already in them
[02:43:52] <SWPadnos> sure, but this needed an extra hole - there are now two faucets
[02:44:32] <SWPadnos> I mean, the filtered taps are sold at HD, and they say "use an existing hole or cut a new one"
[02:46:15] <jmkasunich> truw
[02:46:17] <jmkasunich> e
[02:46:38] <jmkasunich> I have another hole to cut - I'm afraid it will be even worse
[02:46:49] <jmkasunich> 2.3" diameter, for the power inlet plug
[02:47:11] <jmkasunich> I'm thinking jigsaw
[02:47:22] <jmkasunich> another tool I just _love_
[02:47:24] <jmkasunich> not
[02:47:57] <jmkasunich> I think its probably cooled enough that I can go file burrs
[02:48:03] <SWPadnos> 2.3?- that seems awfully big
[02:49:34] <jmkasunich> mcmaster.com, part 7164k71
[02:49:42] <SWPadnos> oh, of course
[02:49:46] <skunkworks> a nice set of hole saws
[02:49:56] <jmkasunich> no, thats the plug I'm mounting
[02:50:12] <skunkworks> no - you need a nice set of hole saws :)
[02:50:48] <jmkasunich> well, I should have ordered that when I ordered the plug
[02:50:57] <SWPadnos> hydraulic punch
[02:51:08] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:51:12] <jmkasunich> hmm
[02:51:14] <SWPadnos> everything becomes a 1/4"-3/8" hole at that point
[02:51:18] <jmkasunich> we have one of those at work
[02:51:18] <skunkworks> stripit machine while your at it
[02:51:25] <jmkasunich> greenlee
[02:51:30] <SWPadnos> yep, that's the one I got
[02:51:35] <SWPadnos> ebay, $100 or so
[02:51:45] <SWPadnos> with a bunch of dies
[02:51:46] <jmkasunich> borrowed from work, faster and $0 or so
[02:51:52] <SWPadnos> yep, way better deal :)
[02:52:06] <jmkasunich> I was hoping to do plug and disconnect tonight
[02:52:22] <jmkasunich> but if the disconnect takes all night, I think I'll be dropping in at work tomorrow
[02:52:56] <jmkasunich> "Hi guys - don't mind me, I'll be leaving in a couple minutes"
[02:53:21] <jmkasunich> that idea is looking better by the minute
[02:53:36] <jmkasunich> well, off to deal with the disconnect first
[02:55:07] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:19:35] <fenn> just get a whirling helicopter of death and put a carbide lathe bit on it
[03:48:56] <jmkasunich> well, I was afraid of that - old shaft is about 3/8" too short
[03:50:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:50:19] <cradek> of what?
[03:50:31] <SWPadnos> mount the disconnect on a 1/2" thick "heatsink" :)
[03:50:37] <jmkasunich> of the handle on the door of the electrical box
[03:51:57] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: that might not be a bad idea
[04:01:11] <cradek> dang
[04:01:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:02:48] <fenn> this is just a handle that cuts power when you open the cabinet right?
[04:03:13] <jmkasunich> yeah, main power switch, and interlocked with the door
[04:03:43] <fenn> use a momentary switch held closed by the door :)
[04:03:56] <fenn> j/k
[04:04:07] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/shoptask/power-input-front.jpg
[04:04:14] <jmkasunich> my disconnect
[04:04:19] <jmkasunich> and the old shaft
[04:05:12] <SWPadnos> make taller feet for that subassembly and you're golden
[04:05:43] <cradek> I'm so glad I'm starting with a CNC machine
[04:05:58] <SWPadnos> that's no fun
[04:06:05] <SWPadnos> except that you can acutally machine things with it
[04:06:24] <jmkasunich> http://web6.automationdirect.com/store/Shopping/Catalog/Circuit_Protection_-z-_Fuses_-z-_Disconnects/UL_508_Rated_Non-Fusible_Load_Disconnect_Switches/Remote_Handles_-a-_Accessories/SD-HRY
[04:06:27] <jmkasunich> the handle
[04:06:57] <SWPadnos> guess you need the 300mm shaft :)
[04:07:06] <jmkasunich> I have the 300mm shaft
[04:07:08] <SWPadnos> plus a little duct tape
[04:07:41] <fenn> drill a bushing with your cnc lathe
[04:08:06] <SWPadnos> drill a square hole - need special bits for that
[04:08:08] <jmkasunich> fenn: can I borrow your square drill bits
[04:08:16] <fenn> sqrt(2)*shaft width
[04:08:24] <fenn> does it turn the shaft?
[04:08:45] <fenn> actually, they do make square drill bits
[04:08:50] <fenn> er, drill bits for square holes
[04:09:24] <cradek> round hole with two set screws ~= square hole
[04:09:40] <jmkasunich> hmmm
[04:09:47] <jmkasunich> that actually makes sense
[04:10:05] <jmkasunich> and I just happen to have 97 M5 x 6mm setscrews
[04:10:15] <cradek> $ units '5mm*sqrt(2)' in
[04:10:15] <cradek> * 0.2783885
[04:10:18] <jmkasunich> (needed 3 for my motor pulleys, package of 100)
[04:11:46] <jmkasunich> its actually about .246 - the corners are a bit rounded off
[04:11:58] <jmkasunich> I can drill .250
[04:12:23] <jmkasunich> duh, I also have 1/16" roll pins
[04:12:28] <jmkasunich> lots of ways to make a coupler
[04:12:53] <jmkasunich> I guess you guys are usefull after all
[04:13:38] <fenn> well, i can't find the square hole bits now, but it worked sorta like a wankel engine
[04:13:50] <cradek> I've seen that too. seems hard to believe.
[04:13:50] <SWPadnos> right - the near-triangular bit
[04:14:00] <SWPadnos> off center near-triangular
[04:14:11] <cradek> I've drilled triangular holes lots of times - does that count?
[04:23:27] <SWPadnos> almost
[04:23:34] <SWPadnos> one edge short of a full square
[04:23:42] <SWPadnos> and/or one vertex short ...
[04:27:44] <fenn> cradek you don't need a fifth axis to make platonic solids, just need to get clever with resonance patterns
[04:28:30] <cradek> lacking cleverness, I'll try it this way
[04:38:13] <jmkasunich> well, one end is a nice press fit on the old steel shaft
[04:38:34] <jmkasunich> probably don't even need a pin or setscrew
[04:53:00] <jmkasunich> collet blocks are a really neat invention
[05:32:54] <jmkasunich> done - coupling worked
[05:33:00] <fenn> yay
[05:50:44] <jmkasunich> pretty sad that is all I have to show for the entire day
[13:53:36] <CIA-20> EMC: 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gui/axis.lyx: note that Override Limits is for physical limit switches and jogging; it can't override inifile limits
[13:53:58] <CIA-20> EMC: 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/gui/axis.lyx: merge: note about Override Limits
[16:15:37] <skunkworks> * skunkworks wonders if cradek got his gecko
[16:19:35] <skunkworks> * skunkworks bets cradek took today off.
[16:24:49] <cradek> it should come today, but I am at work
[16:25:03] <skunkworks> heh
[16:33:12] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is going to work
[16:33:27] <cradek> ugh I thought you were on vacation
[16:33:30] <jmkasunich> but only to return the borrowed chassis punch ;-)
[16:33:50] <cradek> heh
[16:34:01] <cradek> don't get stuck there. it's risky to get too near work.
[16:34:19] <jmkasunich> I already made it in and out unscathed once today
[16:34:31] <jmkasunich> my boss is out, so that helps
[16:35:03] <skunkworks> I am off next week.. but we are remodeling the kitchen
[16:42:49] <cradek> sorry to hear that
[16:44:09] <skunkworks> yah - a lot of tiling.. I think we have everthing we need.
[17:06:44] <skunkworks> since we have hot water heat at this house - I think I am going to try 'under' floor heat.
[17:07:16] <skunkworks> for the kitchen
[18:19:00] <cradek> that sounds like a fun experiment
[20:09:13] <alex_joni> 'lo
[20:11:59] <jmkasunich> hi?
[20:16:36] <alex_joni> hi :)
[20:16:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni was reading back
[20:16:55] <jmkasunich> make up your mind, either hi or lo
[20:17:03] <alex_joni> some long story about disconnects & shafts
[20:17:12] <alex_joni> medium?
[20:17:46] <alex_joni> fun day today.. no work ;)
[20:18:05] <jmkasunich> nice
[20:18:12] <alex_joni> we went to a town nearby to have a end of the year party
[20:22:30] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: must have made it out of work :)
[20:29:04] <jmkasunich> yep
[20:29:07] <jmkasunich> twice even
[20:44:36] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:44:42] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[20:44:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is still having a hard time with that cold :/