is it redneckish, if you like beef jerky?
I'm working on the 2.1.7 release
and stop calling him jerky
cradek: yay and thank you
you're welcome, it's done
and may it be the best and last 2.1 release
interesting (but only pseudofree): http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~alanb/ps2gc.html
pseudofree is right
EMC2 - pre-2.1.0
huh that's pretty old
a machine you haven't used in a while?
this 5i20 stuff is killing me
I'm starting to think I would have been better off writing it in C
ah - the UI, not the FPGA ;)
the toolchain stuff
cradek: thank you very much for adding the release procedure to infrastructure
welcome. it's just an outline but it's still helpful I think
I prefer "tell me what to do" instead of "tell me what to type" (some might not agree)
I prefer tell me what to type (and what it does)
[01:54:03] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Koppi's_Toy
did everyone see this?
mostly because I'm considering volunteering to be a release manager for 2.2, but I would need lots of man-page reading with the instructions as they are now
I think he needs pen up/pen down next :-)
(and I'd probably screw something up)
yep, thats kind of cool
jmkasunich: well I haven't been hit by a bus yet
I thought you were getting tired of it
or you mean "new release manager can pick your brain"
it would be neat to build a Koppi's toy that could write on a flip-chart
easy to set up at the CNC workshop
or a whiteboard, with dry-erase pens
yes that would be very cool
need some big pieces of paper ( how to re-use the space? )
2 pads, 50 sheets each, 27x34 inches, $30 at staples
use a solenoid of some type to do the pen-up pen-down
axis-manual-toolchange to change colors ;-)
here they used the newsprint used for life drawing, available art stores, and the images were edge detected from a diigital camera of audience members, http://imagebin.org/9599
yeh, those pads
i'm looking for the cogged cable...
nice big travel range there
emc/task/emctaskmain.cc 2536: can't initialize motion
I wonder why
I wonder what this means (in dmesg): [605590.203172] SCHED releases registered named ALIEN RTGLBF
(presumably no connection, it's just a strange message..)
bad return value from emcTrajSetUnits
tomp: this stuff maybe? http://www.wmberg.com/catalog/catpage.aspx?url=pdf/B05A052.pdf
wmberg = expensive probalby
ah berg, thanks, couldnt find it
i need the right words to look for
ah ah , spi
cradek: would a reasonable procedure be to do the checks, update the changelog and version, commit, tag, then check out (fresh checkouts) the tag on each system you intend to build on?
build in the fresh checkouts, upload the packages, wipe the checkouts, update version in the main checkout and commit
that ensures that you build what you tagged (idiot proof)
whee, a configuration generated by my configurator is running (nothing attached to the parport)
* jepler wanders off again
just for hektor reference http://imagebin.org/9600
jmk foresaw the future... "Together with a new drawing device called Rita, Hektor is shown in the exhebition «Rita + Hektor» at the Tensta Konsthall in Stockholm, Sweden."
Rita makes her first appearance using a set of whiteboard markers on alarge glass panel. Constantly drawing, erasing and drawing again, sheworks like a display.
mcmaster has L series timing belts, 90" long, 0.375 pitch, for $23
10 tooth pulley, 3/8 bore, $13
buy two of the 90" belts (which are loops, not straight stock), cut them to get two 90" pieces
jmkasunich: will do the math for the are that'd cover... i have a mcmaster warehouse local
btw: rita is an xy plotter on a huge whiteboard http://imagebin.org/9601
kelinging.net has 495 oz-in nema23 with a 3/8 shaft that would fit the pulley, $59
pulley pitch diameter is 1.193, so 495 oz-in = 51 lbs
most nema23's have 1/4" shafts, have to bush the pulley (smallest pulley bore is 3/8)
kelinging.net ? firefofx here can't find that domain.
[02:40:20] <jmkasunich> http://www.kelinginc.net/SMotorstock.html
2x495oz inch... a vertical acetelyne torch instead of 6ox spray can
are these the guys who had a table of motors at cnc workshop?
3.75 inches per rev, at 200 steps/rev = 0.01875 inches/step (fullstepping)
if you mean an oriental guy, with black painted motors, yes
I don't think I ever saw the guy
one night late we tried to test the motors by shorting the leads and turning the shafts, and some of them continued turning freely..
did you short all the leads?
I don't remember what we did exactly
tried shorting different pairs of leads, I think
if you short two leads at random on an 8 lead motor you have only a 1 in 7 chance of shorting a winding
I got my shoptask motors from them, and so far so good
only ran it on the bench so far, but...
($22 + $13 + $59 + $114) * 2 = $408 to make a high-end version of that thing, with all new material
high end = 80 inch travel, 0.01875 inch steps, 50 lbs holding torque
real cost depends on scrounging ability, and whether you could use cheaper amps
the geckos at $114 are more than half the total
the motors are rated 3A, so a xylotex drive could run them
what is a L298 rated for?
2A per bridge
so a homemade driver could to 2A, and get 66% (ish) torque
thats still 30 lbs
(at a standstill)
xylotex says 2.5A/phase, not 3A
and $125 for two axis
homemade would be lots cheaper
figure 10lbs at speed, that still lets you build a reasonably heavy pen holder mechanism
make a driver from 2 L297 and 4 L298 for 2 axes -- that gets you 4A per motor
you'll spend ages making the board, but that time is free
updated with new tarball: http://axis.unpy.net/01185733075
make it a single axis board
and mount it right next to the motor
each motor assembly is independent, feed it DC power and step/dir
[02:55:44] <jmkasunich> http://www.hektor.ch/Work/Stay+In+Bed/DSC04571.jpg/
i think it cant reach the corners of the canvas. it cant reach directly underneath either motor pulley, and 2 radii of < 90" would cover a rect area of... dunno yet,still guestimating.
I have an easier way to figure it out
stand by a bit
( imo well its trig but you guess at the ray len and how far from edges you'll stay)
( a thought... it's not a rect, its a half-circle that can be reached and a rect thats used )
with 85" working radius, and 72" between motors, you can cover a 53 wide x 40 high rectangle
with 60" between motors, its 37 wide x 55 high
so motor spacing lets you choose between portrait and landscape
80" motor spacing: 66 wide x 24 high
nice for banners
I assumed that when the belt is near vertical, the slope is at least 15/100 - if you try to go true vertical, the tension in the other cable will go to zero and you'll lose control
likewise when the belt is near horizontal, I assumed 25/100 minimum slope
it would take a lot of belt tension (several times the load weight) to pull the cables nearly horizontal
upper corners will be trouble spots - one cable is near horizontal, and cable weight will set the minimum tension and thus minimum side force from that cable
the other will be near vertical, so won't be able to counter the side force
right, i avoided the corners and vertical edges, and came up with a 60"sqr and the motors 80" apart. if the topleft motor was 0,0, then the sqr was at 10,-10 to 70,-70
[03:16:56] <tomp> http://imagebin.org/9602
i also kept a bit of the cable in reserve ( may want a bit of counter balance on a tag end )
i have some pacsi motors and amps, and some toothed pinions... ( may/may not be of use ) the belt is the key.. they used some plastic over stranded wire cable stuff...
the motors drove the chines 3in1 well enuf to cut mild steel with 1/2 2 flukes
i'll do this, i always was impressed by hektor, thanks
tomp - hang on one sec
[03:21:38] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/Hektor.pdf
that assumes 85" max length - 5" for pulley wrap and reserve
somewhere between 60" and 72" is a square working area
great! i like the idea of landscape / portrait
the cable http://www.pic-design.com/PICSmartCAT/GlobalFrame.asp?strPage=pdfcat/beltsandpulleys.htm
Mcmaster also sells belting by the foot
doesn't say what the max length is
this pic brand stuff has the steel core with plastic cogs ( over the years i think i read thats what hektor used, its been around a while )
[03:29:07] <tomp> http://www.pic-design.com/PICSmartCAT/GlobalFrame.asp?strPage=pdfcat/beltsandpulleys.htm
I'm looking at plain old timing belt material
seems you can get up to 50 feet in a single piece
$3.59 a foot for 1/2" wide
ok, i thought the link length was important to the design, but it's really the angular step and the pulley radius
mcmaster carr 7959K26
yeah, picth doesn't really matter
strength matters - I wouldn't go any finer than the L series I think
although XL (0.2" pitch) comes in 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 widths, at $1.66, 2.30, and 2.59 a foot
the 1/2 inch stuff has kevlar cords
XL pulleys are available with 1/4" bore, to fit a standard nema23 motor
14 tooth pulley has a pitch diameter of 0.89 inches, actually gives more tension per oz-in of torque, and finer resolution
so what if i got 120 feet of old bicycle chain... a regular chain is maybe 60"? and a couple pounds? ( 100 ft at 3.59 is 359$)
thats gonna sag
sag the hangar?
sag between the motor and the pen carrier
assume you are in the top left corner
the right cable is long, and nearly horizontal
it's heavy , got it
if its heavy stuff, it will sag and drag the pen to the right
I'm liking timing belt, with a cheap follower to keep it wrapped around the pulley
the carrier to extended cable ratio cannot be too dissimilar
cheap = skateboard bearing, OD running on the back of the belt, with a screw thru the center
you could get over 180 degrees of wrap pretty easily
breaking strength of an XL belt is 450 lbs per inch of width
so even a 1/4" wide one can handle at least 100 lbs
nominal load capacity is 340 lbs per inch of width
100 ft 1.65 165$
i gotta find cheaper solution
unless you want to write on the sides of houses, you are looking at more like 20 feet
? doh! your cad was with 2 pcs 84" right
50 feet was the maximum you can buy in one piece, but they sell it by the foot
ok, great, the rest of the pix show the single solenoid that levers down on the spray cap, and others show the left/right motor mounts with the slots to attach them ( the mounts swing under the bolt head using slots )
and i now have a bport at my disposal
if I was gonna make something like hektor, I'd use felt tip markers instead of spray cans
much nicer lines
have to give some thought to a pen-lift mechanism
did you see 'rita' same guys made one with dry erase markers on a big sheet of glass ( pen lift, same solenoid, other plane )
I just saw the imagebin you posted
old hp plotter language "PU PD"
right now the cat that's been sitting on my lap for the last hour is telling me its bedtime
listen to the cat !
unrelated: I like Stuart's response to the "president" post
I started on documentation for stepconf: http://axis.unpy.net/files/01185733075/stepconf.pdf
wow, you are handling a lot of cases
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
wow! just catching up reading IRC and this new configuration editing utility is a major enhancement! it will make EMC2 accessable to a much wider group of users
wow - nice work jepler.
wondering out loud.... could the configurator have a "peephole" function so the user could see the output generated by an individual configuration selection. This could function as a learning bridge to direct editing of files.
steve_stallings: not really -- the organization of my program separates the "gather information" step completely from the "produce configuration files" step
Will the configurator be able to open existing configs that it generated, and present the current selections as the defaults in the boxes, or is it a one shot deal?
you can run it multiple times and keep tweaking the settings
it saves its settings in a file with the extension ".stepconf", as well as generating a .ini and a .hal file
Good enough then, you can do multiple runs and compare the output.
if it makes a good bullet point, I could make .stepconf be an xml file :-P
I have no axe to grind on xml either way...
if the alternative is binary pickle, I'd say xml is better because it's pseudohumanreadable
... on the other hand, if the configurator was itself configurable using xml, then adding devices might be easier,.... running,....ducking,....hiding
that is such a mistaken idea
I'm glad you're only proposing it in jest
I figured you had not gotten enought joy from Glade alone, and need another thrill..
paul is back in full force.. ;)
Hi alex. Had a good weekend?
skunkworks: great actually
it was a fun weekend.. away from technology :)
I don't understand.. ;)
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
skunkworks: what part?
heh - sourceforge is down for maintance.
complain to paul_c
it is hard to get away from technology for me.. I have done it though.
I was horseback riding this weekend
yeah, it was fun.. but it was my first time
and I fear I'm a bit sore :P
hmm - my email pointing out that sourceforge was down - isn't going to go thru until it is back up ;)
jepler: the link you had in your email to paul - isn't accessable to john Q public.
if that was your intent.
Doe's cousin ?
isn't accessible .. or .. is inaccessible
* alex_joni has a hunch that skunkworks looked that up :P
I did spell check...
* alex_joni wanted to do the release for 2.1.7 at sourceforge
The SourceForge.net Website is currently down for maintenance.
We will be back shortly
its down again then - it was up for a bit just a few minutes ago.
yeah, I was half-way through the process
cradek: I suppose you didn't do SF and linuxcnc.org updates for 2.1.7 ?
nope, but awallin did the wiki stuff
ok, I'll do it shortly
skunkworks: oh really
skunkworks: just because sf is down at the moment? or do you have to sign in to view that page even when it's working?
Yah - when it was up - it comes to a something like 'you don't have rights to access this page'
but I can check when it comes back up again.
sf is working for me by the way
but I am signed in
what is the imagebin site?
I also get a login prompt when I try that link
apparently it retrieves that particular message as though it was posted on emc-board, maybe that has to do with the problem
Mark P pasted it into a message on the list already - no worries
my face is red anyway
well, it's not your fault the sf archives are surprising
there you go - trying to hide things again.. Paul_c was right.. ;)
what about this URL? http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=20060405140454.GY9018%40timeguy.com
that seems to work without a signin
If you don't want commit access anymore,
that's fine, and if you try to spin it so it's my fault you made that
choice, that's also fine. It makes no difference to me; it's pretty
transparent. Let's move on, ok?
* cradek <- bad at mincing words
Consider using ASV.
hmm.. about 14600 downloads on emc2 since 2.0.0 on sourceforge
642 of those are from me :)
about the same for emc1
who is good with wordings?
* skunkworks was just kidding
cradek used to be an editor iirc
that was a previous life
* alex_joni has an idea
I want to publish a short info that elections for the board of directors will be performed soon
cradek: mind if I use your email to the lists?
you don't think my email was enough?
particularly since only list members are eligible to vote (if I understand right)
jepler: right, you understand it right
it should have been a couple weeks ago
maybe next time
skunkworks: you know what you have to do
[18:56:02] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BoardElection
if he wants. no pressure.
there is no pressure :)
paul accepted his nomination?
never mind. I need to learn how to read..
skunkworks: one day we'll teach you :P
these guys have been busy:
I can't believe you added Paul but forgot me :)
[19:04:20] <alex_joni> http://www.imac.unavarra.es/parallel/imagenes.php
* alex_joni hides ashamed
at least I can tell you to add yourself :P
no problem - I don't have a phobia about cooperating with the current EMC2 crowd ;)
SWPadnos: for my defense.. I don't have my laptop (with all my emails).. was reading on gmane
ewwww - you're pardoned then
I think gmane is actually pretty good
* alex_joni too
it's just the idea of a web interface to mail that gets the ewww reaction :)
web ML archives are nice - you can link to an old email for instance
that's a nice hexapod
(it's just that most of them suck)
cradek: yeah, if they don't hcange URI's like SF did
any untrusted third parties here? ;)
or is it two?
one plus a backup, I guess
the whole point of public key cryptography is that you don't have to trust anyone
obviously that's not good enough
* cradek shrugs
I wonder what the other solution was though - live without CVS access for anyone for - what was it - a month?
it was a few weeks before we did anything about it - very irritating
I don't know what the reliability is like now - it would be nice to know
and I think the problems persisted for a few weeks after the transition
I think the problems did persist into cnc workshop, when we would have been 'stuffed'
heh - this is a little like using halscope to look at timeing: whenever the SF data-gathering computers are online, so are all the CVS archives ;)
but I have no interest in arguing about it
SWPadnos: you are aware of the tuxcnc repo.. aren't you?
SWPadnos: because you asked about firmware stuff
sounds like maybe he plans to drop his current fork and make another one...
maybe there's more usefull stuff to include in the fork now ;)
alex_joni, thanks - I hadn't noticed a repo at tuxcnc
it's not advertised, some might say it's hidden
I had only asked the firmware question because it wasn't obvious to me how one would differentiate between different cards of the same model, in case you wanted different configurations for the 5i20, for example
[20:15:51] <alex_joni> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/tuxcnc/
I wonder if there's any substance to the claim about rcslib changes at NIST
I didn't see any commits to sourceforge
pretty sure the one at sf is still committable
yes, it is..
well, the claim was that the repo was brought back inside NIST
or at least they're developing to an internal repo now
it would be impossible to say (and silly to argue about) whether we caused that, without asking fred
if it's even accurate
(I'm falling on the side of "don't feed the troll" now)
it may be slightly too late to put that genie back in the bottle :)
I exchanged some emails with fred shortly after that, and he didn't mention anything about this
I've also talked to fred a few times since then
well talked once, emailed several times
It think paul is laughing to himself right now.
he always is
but then again he's on freenode right now, you could ask him
cool -the Mesa "equivalent" to the pluto is $79 for a 200k gate Xilinx FPGA (the same one on the 5i20)
or $10 more for a USB-connected one
not available yet, but should be "soon"
cool.. will they release new products?
err - that is a new product :)
SWPadnos: when you say it's "equivalent to the pluto", what do you mean?
it connects to the parallel port
surely you don't mean it's parport-connected?
yes, I do
huh I'm a bit surprised they'd develop such an item
sign me up, I need more hardware I don't use
there's a USB version as well, and a 400k-gate version is listed
yep, same page as the 5i20
parallelI/O - Misc I/O
no manuals or software online yet
it looks good though - 2 of the 50-pin connectors, like the 5i20
SWPadnos: did you e-mail them for the price? I don't see that on their website
I didn't get the price on the 400k gate version, but the parport ones are nice - $65 in 5-24 quantity
parport 200k gates, that is
how many gates does the pluto have?
50k, I think
oh - wow
but altera gates != xilinx gates, so who knows
my suspicion is that the xilinx is "better" per gate, because I think the Spartan II is a later generation than the Altera Acex (which I think is basically discontinued now)
the chip has 576 logic elements (1 LUT + 1 flipflop) and 12288 bits of dedicated RAM. They call it "10,000 typical gates"
oh, even smaller :)
ok, that's a bit later
is the mesa chip the XC2S200 ?
I think it's the same as on the 5i20
it is 200k gates, and they would probably use the same part number if they can
I suspect a bit of your pluto code (EPP) plus a bit of the 5i2x code could do a lot, parport-depending
and the Xilinx tools are native on Linux, which is a bonus
I'm kind of bummed - they now have a version of the isolated I/O card with screw terminals - the 7i37T - but it's not available yet
the XC2S200 has 5292 "logic cells"; they look similar to an ACEX1K logic element (1 LUT + 1 flipflop)
hmmm. I think the xilinx cell is actually 2 LUTs
whatever they call the "cell"
That's the "CLB slice"
it does have 2 LUT + 2 FF
there are 1176 CLBs
I dunno how they come up with 5292 logic cells, in that case
obviously, there are 4.5 logic cells per CLB!
""The Spartan-II LUT can also provide a 16-bit shift register that is ideal for capturing high-speed or burst-mode data."
right - 2x CLB each with 2x LUT
err - 2x slice each with 2x LUT
have you accounted for the ".5" yet?
"additional carry logic" ??
SWPadnos: let me know when they're selling those boards, would you?
I'll let you know as soon as I know. want one if I get some?
not more than one
right. I'd hope to get the qty. 5 price, so it should be almost pluto-esque