#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-07-30

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[00:26:48] <a-l-p-h-a> is it redneckish, if you like beef jerky?
[00:29:13] <cradek> I'm working on the 2.1.7 release
[00:42:25] <tomp> and stop calling him jerky
[01:06:30] <jepler> cradek: yay and thank you
[01:28:56] <cradek> you're welcome, it's done
[01:29:14] <cradek> and may it be the best and last 2.1 release
[01:41:13] <cradek> interesting (but only pseudofree): http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~alanb/ps2gc.html
[01:47:21] <jepler> pseudofree is right
[01:48:38] <jepler> EMC2 - pre-2.1.0
[01:48:44] <jepler> huh that's pretty old
[01:49:05] <cradek> a machine you haven't used in a while?
[01:50:24] <jmkasunich> this 5i20 stuff is killing me
[01:50:38] <jmkasunich> I'm starting to think I would have been better off writing it in C
[01:50:49] <cradek> uh-oh
[01:50:51] <SWPadnos> ah - the UI, not the FPGA ;)
[01:51:05] <jmkasunich> the toolchain stuff
[01:51:49] <jmkasunich> cradek: thank you very much for adding the release procedure to infrastructure
[01:52:04] <cradek> welcome. it's just an outline but it's still helpful I think
[01:53:14] <cradek> I prefer "tell me what to do" instead of "tell me what to type" (some might not agree)
[01:53:32] <jmkasunich> I prefer tell me what to type (and what it does)
[01:54:03] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Koppi's_Toy
[01:54:05] <cradek> did everyone see this?
[01:54:32] <jmkasunich> mostly because I'm considering volunteering to be a release manager for 2.2, but I would need lots of man-page reading with the instructions as they are now
[01:54:33] <cradek> I think he needs pen up/pen down next :-)
[01:54:45] <jmkasunich> (and I'd probably screw something up)
[01:55:00] <jmkasunich> yep, thats kind of cool
[01:55:11] <cradek> jmkasunich: well I haven't been hit by a bus yet
[01:55:25] <jmkasunich> I thought you were getting tired of it
[01:55:40] <jmkasunich> or you mean "new release manager can pick your brain"
[01:55:45] <cradek> right
[01:57:11] <jmkasunich> it would be neat to build a Koppi's toy that could write on a flip-chart
[01:57:21] <jmkasunich> easy to set up at the CNC workshop
[01:57:59] <jmkasunich> or a whiteboard, with dry-erase pens
[01:58:08] <cradek> yes that would be very cool
[01:58:13] <tomp> need some big pieces of paper ( how to re-use the space? )
[02:00:43] <jmkasunich> 2 pads, 50 sheets each, 27x34 inches, $30 at staples
[02:01:30] <jmkasunich> use a solenoid of some type to do the pen-up pen-down
[02:02:33] <jmkasunich> axis-manual-toolchange to change colors ;-)
[02:03:10] <tomp> here they used the newsprint used for life drawing, available art stores, and the images were edge detected from a diigital camera of audience members, http://imagebin.org/9599
[02:03:24] <tomp> yeh, those pads
[02:03:50] <tomp> i'm looking for the cogged cable...
[02:03:50] <jmkasunich> nice big travel range there
[02:05:15] <jepler> hm ..
[02:05:16] <jepler> emc/task/emctaskmain.cc 2536: can't initialize motion
[02:05:18] <jepler> I wonder why
[02:05:43] <jepler> I wonder what this means (in dmesg): [605590.203172] SCHED releases registered named ALIEN RTGLBF
[02:05:55] <jepler> (presumably no connection, it's just a strange message..)
[02:06:49] <jepler> bad return value from emcTrajSetUnits
[02:06:50] <jepler> aha
[02:08:00] <jmkasunich> tomp: this stuff maybe? http://www.wmberg.com/catalog/catpage.aspx?url=pdf/B05A052.pdf
[02:08:12] <jmkasunich> wmberg = expensive probalby
[02:08:16] <tomp> ah berg, thanks, couldnt find it
[02:08:31] <tomp> i need the right words to look for
[02:08:53] <tomp> ah ah , spi
[02:16:08] <jmkasunich> cradek: would a reasonable procedure be to do the checks, update the changelog and version, commit, tag, then check out (fresh checkouts) the tag on each system you intend to build on?
[02:16:31] <jmkasunich> build in the fresh checkouts, upload the packages, wipe the checkouts, update version in the main checkout and commit
[02:16:58] <jmkasunich> that ensures that you build what you tagged (idiot proof)
[02:20:54] <jepler> whee, a configuration generated by my configurator is running (nothing attached to the parport)
[02:21:03] <jepler> * jepler wanders off again
[02:27:16] <tomp> just for hektor reference http://imagebin.org/9600
[02:31:19] <tomp> jmk foresaw the future... "Together with a new drawing device called Rita, Hektor is shown in the exhebition Ā«Rita + HektorĀ» at the Tensta Konsthall in Stockholm, Sweden."
[02:31:20] <tomp> Rita makes her first appearance using a set of whiteboard markers on alarge glass panel. Constantly drawing, erasing and drawing again, sheworks like a display.
[02:32:38] <jmkasunich> mcmaster has L series timing belts, 90" long, 0.375 pitch, for $23
[02:33:37] <jmkasunich> 10 tooth pulley, 3/8 bore, $13
[02:34:34] <jmkasunich> buy two of the 90" belts (which are loops, not straight stock), cut them to get two 90" pieces
[02:36:07] <tomp> jmkasunich: will do the math for the are that'd cover... i have a mcmaster warehouse local
[02:37:11] <tomp> btw: rita is an xy plotter on a huge whiteboard http://imagebin.org/9601
[02:38:00] <jmkasunich> kelinging.net has 495 oz-in nema23 with a 3/8 shaft that would fit the pulley, $59
[02:38:45] <jmkasunich> pulley pitch diameter is 1.193, so 495 oz-in = 51 lbs
[02:39:49] <jmkasunich> most nema23's have 1/4" shafts, have to bush the pulley (smallest pulley bore is 3/8)
[02:40:06] <jepler> kelinging.net ? firefofx here can't find that domain.
[02:40:20] <jmkasunich> http://www.kelinginc.net/SMotorstock.html
[02:40:22] <tomp> 2x495oz inch... a vertical acetelyne torch instead of 6ox spray can
[02:40:23] <jmkasunich> sorry, typo
[02:40:29] <jepler> ah
[02:41:22] <jepler> are these the guys who had a table of motors at cnc workshop?
[02:41:26] <jmkasunich> 3.75 inches per rev, at 200 steps/rev = 0.01875 inches/step (fullstepping)
[02:41:39] <jmkasunich> if you mean an oriental guy, with black painted motors, yes
[02:42:08] <jepler> I don't think I ever saw the guy
[02:42:23] <jepler> one night late we tried to test the motors by shorting the leads and turning the shafts, and some of them continued turning freely..
[02:42:36] <jmkasunich> did you short all the leads?
[02:43:09] <jepler> I don't remember what we did exactly
[02:43:18] <jepler> tried shorting different pairs of leads, I think
[02:43:35] <jmkasunich> if you short two leads at random on an 8 lead motor you have only a 1 in 7 chance of shorting a winding
[02:44:01] <jmkasunich> I got my shoptask motors from them, and so far so good
[02:44:08] <jmkasunich> only ran it on the bench so far, but...
[02:45:28] <jmkasunich> ($22 + $13 + $59 + $114) * 2 = $408 to make a high-end version of that thing, with all new material
[02:46:01] <jmkasunich> high end = 80 inch travel, 0.01875 inch steps, 50 lbs holding torque
[02:46:32] <jmkasunich> real cost depends on scrounging ability, and whether you could use cheaper amps
[02:46:39] <jmkasunich> the geckos at $114 are more than half the total
[02:46:46] <jmkasunich> 114 each
[02:47:30] <jmkasunich> the motors are rated 3A, so a xylotex drive could run them
[02:48:44] <jmkasunich> what is a L298 rated for?
[02:48:53] <jmkasunich> 2A?
[02:48:56] <jepler> 2A per bridge
[02:49:23] <jmkasunich> so a homemade driver could to 2A, and get 66% (ish) torque
[02:49:28] <jmkasunich> thats still 30 lbs
[02:49:35] <jmkasunich> (at a standstill)
[02:49:38] <jepler> xylotex says 2.5A/phase, not 3A
[02:49:43] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:49:46] <jmkasunich> and $125 for two axis
[02:49:53] <jmkasunich> homemade would be lots cheaper
[02:50:13] <jmkasunich> figure 10lbs at speed, that still lets you build a reasonably heavy pen holder mechanism
[02:50:16] <jepler> make a driver from 2 L297 and 4 L298 for 2 axes -- that gets you 4A per motor
[02:50:32] <jepler> you'll spend ages making the board, but that time is free
[02:51:25] <jepler> updated with new tarball: http://axis.unpy.net/01185733075
[02:51:26] <jepler> g'night
[02:51:32] <jmkasunich> make it a single axis board
[02:51:42] <jmkasunich> and mount it right next to the motor
[02:51:57] <jmkasunich> each motor assembly is independent, feed it DC power and step/dir
[02:52:03] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[02:53:26] <tomp> gnite
[02:55:44] <jmkasunich> http://www.hektor.ch/Work/Stay+In+Bed/DSC04571.jpg/
[02:56:15] <tomp> i think it cant reach the corners of the canvas. it cant reach directly underneath either motor pulley, and 2 radii of < 90" would cover a rect area of... dunno yet,still guestimating.
[02:56:41] <jmkasunich> I have an easier way to figure it out
[02:56:46] <jmkasunich> stand by a bit
[02:57:34] <tomp> ( imo well its trig but you guess at the ray len and how far from edges you'll stay)
[02:57:47] <tomp> ok
[02:59:49] <tomp> ( a thought... it's not a rect, its a half-circle that can be reached and a rect thats used )
[03:05:42] <jmkasunich> with 85" working radius, and 72" between motors, you can cover a 53 wide x 40 high rectangle
[03:07:37] <jmkasunich> with 60" between motors, its 37 wide x 55 high
[03:07:50] <jmkasunich> so motor spacing lets you choose between portrait and landscape
[03:10:16] <jmkasunich> 80" motor spacing: 66 wide x 24 high
[03:10:19] <jmkasunich> nice for banners
[03:11:13] <jmkasunich> I assumed that when the belt is near vertical, the slope is at least 15/100 - if you try to go true vertical, the tension in the other cable will go to zero and you'll lose control
[03:11:32] <jmkasunich> likewise when the belt is near horizontal, I assumed 25/100 minimum slope
[03:12:09] <jmkasunich> it would take a lot of belt tension (several times the load weight) to pull the cables nearly horizontal
[03:13:06] <jmkasunich> upper corners will be trouble spots - one cable is near horizontal, and cable weight will set the minimum tension and thus minimum side force from that cable
[03:13:17] <jmkasunich> the other will be near vertical, so won't be able to counter the side force
[03:15:04] <tomp> right, i avoided the corners and vertical edges, and came up with a 60"sqr and the motors 80" apart. if the topleft motor was 0,0, then the sqr was at 10,-10 to 70,-70
[03:16:56] <tomp> http://imagebin.org/9602
[03:17:56] <tomp> i also kept a bit of the cable in reserve ( may want a bit of counter balance on a tag end )
[03:19:14] <tomp> i have some pacsi motors and amps, and some toothed pinions... ( may/may not be of use ) the belt is the key.. they used some plastic over stranded wire cable stuff...
[03:20:14] <tomp> the motors drove the chines 3in1 well enuf to cut mild steel with 1/2 2 flukes
[03:20:45] <tomp> i'll do this, i always was impressed by hektor, thanks
[03:20:50] <tomp> g'nite
[03:20:58] <jmkasunich> tomp - hang on one sec
[03:21:01] <tomp> k
[03:21:38] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/Hektor.pdf
[03:22:07] <jmkasunich> that assumes 85" max length - 5" for pulley wrap and reserve
[03:23:47] <jmkasunich> somewhere between 60" and 72" is a square working area
[03:24:30] <tomp> great! i like the idea of landscape / portrait
[03:24:31] <tomp> and
[03:24:37] <tomp> the cable http://www.pic-design.com/PICSmartCAT/GlobalFrame.asp?strPage=pdfcat/beltsandpulleys.htm
[03:26:14] <jmkasunich> Mcmaster also sells belting by the foot
[03:26:22] <jmkasunich> doesn't say what the max length is
[03:28:59] <tomp> this pic brand stuff has the steel core with plastic cogs ( over the years i think i read thats what hektor used, its been around a while )
[03:29:07] <tomp> http://www.pic-design.com/PICSmartCAT/GlobalFrame.asp?strPage=pdfcat/beltsandpulleys.htm choose 'introduction'
[03:29:23] <jmkasunich> I'm looking at plain old timing belt material
[03:29:32] <jmkasunich> seems you can get up to 50 feet in a single piece
[03:29:47] <jmkasunich> $3.59 a foot for 1/2" wide
[03:31:20] <tomp> ok, i thought the link length was important to the design, but it's really the angular step and the pulley radius
[03:31:32] <jmkasunich> mcmaster carr 7959K26
[03:31:38] <jmkasunich> yeah, picth doesn't really matter
[03:31:41] <jmkasunich> pitch
[03:32:05] <jmkasunich> strength matters - I wouldn't go any finer than the L series I think
[03:32:44] <jmkasunich> although XL (0.2" pitch) comes in 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 widths, at $1.66, 2.30, and 2.59 a foot
[03:33:05] <jmkasunich> the 1/2 inch stuff has kevlar cords
[03:34:22] <jmkasunich> XL pulleys are available with 1/4" bore, to fit a standard nema23 motor
[03:35:15] <jmkasunich> 14 tooth pulley has a pitch diameter of 0.89 inches, actually gives more tension per oz-in of torque, and finer resolution
[03:35:18] <tomp> so what if i got 120 feet of old bicycle chain... a regular chain is maybe 60"? and a couple pounds? ( 100 ft at 3.59 is 359$)
[03:35:37] <jmkasunich> thats gonna sag
[03:35:50] <tomp> sag the hangar?
[03:36:04] <jmkasunich> sag between the motor and the pen carrier
[03:36:09] <jmkasunich> assume you are in the top left corner
[03:36:16] <tomp> yeh
[03:36:18] <jmkasunich> the right cable is long, and nearly horizontal
[03:36:28] <tomp> it's heavy , got it
[03:36:28] <jmkasunich> if its heavy stuff, it will sag and drag the pen to the right
[03:36:54] <jmkasunich> I'm liking timing belt, with a cheap follower to keep it wrapped around the pulley
[03:37:04] <tomp> the carrier to extended cable ratio cannot be too dissimilar
[03:37:10] <jmkasunich> cheap = skateboard bearing, OD running on the back of the belt, with a screw thru the center
[03:37:37] <jmkasunich> you could get over 180 degrees of wrap pretty easily
[03:39:13] <jmkasunich> breaking strength of an XL belt is 450 lbs per inch of width
[03:39:24] <jmkasunich> so even a 1/4" wide one can handle at least 100 lbs
[03:39:44] <jmkasunich> nominal load capacity is 340 lbs per inch of width
[03:39:51] <tomp> 100 ft 1.65 165$
[03:40:01] <tomp> 1/4 inch
[03:40:11] <tomp> i gotta find cheaper solution
[03:40:27] <jmkasunich> unless you want to write on the sides of houses, you are looking at more like 20 feet
[03:40:53] <tomp> ? doh! your cad was with 2 pcs 84" right
[03:41:11] <jmkasunich> right
[03:41:25] <jmkasunich> 50 feet was the maximum you can buy in one piece, but they sell it by the foot
[03:41:25] <tomp> 32$
[03:43:42] <tomp> ok, great, the rest of the pix show the single solenoid that levers down on the spray cap, and others show the left/right motor mounts with the slots to attach them ( the mounts swing under the bolt head using slots )
[03:43:59] <tomp> and i now have a bport at my disposal
[03:45:40] <jmkasunich> if I was gonna make something like hektor, I'd use felt tip markers instead of spray cans
[03:45:43] <jmkasunich> much nicer lines
[03:46:06] <jmkasunich> have to give some thought to a pen-lift mechanism
[03:46:31] <tomp> did you see 'rita' same guys made one with dry erase markers on a big sheet of glass ( pen lift, same solenoid, other plane )
[03:46:48] <jmkasunich> I just saw the imagebin you posted
[03:47:00] <tomp> old hp plotter language "PU PD"
[03:47:13] <jmkasunich> right now the cat that's been sitting on my lap for the last hour is telling me its bedtime
[03:47:25] <tomp> listen to the cat !
[03:47:43] <tomp> thanks
[03:47:45] <jmkasunich> unrelated: I like Stuart's response to the "president" post
[03:47:49] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[15:06:07] <jepler> I started on documentation for stepconf: http://axis.unpy.net/files/01185733075/stepconf.pdf
[15:15:52] <cradek> neato
[15:21:22] <cradek> wow, you are handling a lot of cases
[15:25:30] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[15:26:45] <steve_stallings> wow! just catching up reading IRC and this new configuration editing utility is a major enhancement! it will make EMC2 accessable to a much wider group of users
[15:27:05] <skunkworks> wow - nice work jepler.
[15:30:20] <steve_stallings> wondering out loud.... could the configurator have a "peephole" function so the user could see the output generated by an individual configuration selection. This could function as a learning bridge to direct editing of files.
[16:00:49] <jepler> steve_stallings: not really -- the organization of my program separates the "gather information" step completely from the "produce configuration files" step
[16:26:44] <steve_stallings> Will the configurator be able to open existing configs that it generated, and present the current selections as the defaults in the boxes, or is it a one shot deal?
[16:27:43] <jepler> you can run it multiple times and keep tweaking the settings
[16:28:06] <jepler> it saves its settings in a file with the extension ".stepconf", as well as generating a .ini and a .hal file
[16:29:15] <steve_stallings> Good enough then, you can do multiple runs and compare the output.
[16:29:51] <jepler> if it makes a good bullet point, I could make .stepconf be an xml file :-P
[16:30:09] <cradek> haha
[16:30:25] <steve_stallings> I have no axe to grind on xml either way...
[16:31:06] <cradek> if the alternative is binary pickle, I'd say xml is better because it's pseudohumanreadable
[16:31:25] <cradek> pseudohuman-readable? pseudo-humanreadable?
[16:31:35] <cradek> whatever
[16:31:35] <jepler> human-pseudoreadable?
[16:31:59] <cradek> pseudohuman-quasireadable
[16:32:05] <steve_stallings> ... on the other hand, if the configurator was itself configurable using xml, then adding devices might be easier,.... running,....ducking,....hiding
[16:33:40] <jepler> that is such a mistaken idea
[16:33:49] <jepler> I'm glad you're only proposing it in jest
[16:36:15] <steve_stallings> I figured you had not gotten enought joy from Glade alone, and need another thrill..
[16:42:16] <skunkworks> paul is back in full force.. ;)
[17:05:09] <alex_joni> hi guys
[17:05:44] <skunkworks> Hi alex. Had a good weekend?
[17:05:53] <alex_joni> skunkworks: great actually
[17:05:56] <skunkworks> great
[17:06:13] <alex_joni> it was a fun weekend.. away from technology :)
[17:06:47] <skunkworks> I don't understand.. ;)
[17:08:48] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[17:09:15] <alex_joni> skunkworks: what part?
[17:09:16] <skunkworks> heh - sourceforge is down for maintance.
[17:09:31] <alex_joni> complain to paul_c
[17:10:52] <alex_joni> ;-)
[17:12:29] <skunkworks> it is hard to get away from technology for me.. I have done it though.
[17:12:32] <skunkworks> :)
[17:12:51] <alex_joni> I was horseback riding this weekend
[17:12:55] <skunkworks> nice
[17:13:11] <alex_joni> yeah, it was fun.. but it was my first time
[17:13:20] <alex_joni> and I fear I'm a bit sore :P
[17:13:26] <skunkworks> I bet
[17:14:47] <skunkworks> hmm - my email pointing out that sourceforge was down - isn't going to go thru until it is back up ;)
[17:15:03] <skunkworks> catch 22
[17:29:28] <alex_joni> cradek: ping
[17:43:40] <skunkworks> jepler: the link you had in your email to paul - isn't accessable to john Q public.
[17:44:47] <skunkworks> if that was your intent.
[17:48:56] <alex_joni> john Q?
[17:50:45] <awallin> Doe's cousin ?
[17:51:08] <alex_joni> accessable?
[17:52:19] <awallin> that's inexplicable
[17:53:58] <skunkworks> isn't accessible .. or .. is inaccessible
[17:54:51] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has a hunch that skunkworks looked that up :P
[17:55:10] <skunkworks> I did spell check...
[17:55:22] <alex_joni> oh ffs
[17:55:33] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wanted to do the release for 2.1.7 at sourceforge
[17:55:53] <alex_joni> We're Sorry.
[17:55:53] <alex_joni> The SourceForge.net Website is currently down for maintenance.
[17:55:53] <alex_joni> We will be back shortly
[17:56:35] <skunkworks> its down again then - it was up for a bit just a few minutes ago.
[17:57:32] <alex_joni> yeah, I was half-way through the process
[17:58:56] <alex_joni> cradek: I suppose you didn't do SF and linuxcnc.org updates for 2.1.7 ?
[17:59:24] <cradek> nope, but awallin did the wiki stuff
[17:59:35] <alex_joni> ok, I'll do it shortly
[17:59:44] <cradek> thank you
[18:00:00] <alex_joni> no sweat
[18:00:01] <jepler> skunkworks: oh really
[18:00:21] <jepler> skunkworks: just because sf is down at the moment? or do you have to sign in to view that page even when it's working?
[18:00:46] <skunkworks> Yah - when it was up - it comes to a something like 'you don't have rights to access this page'
[18:01:00] <skunkworks> but I can check when it comes back up again.
[18:01:59] <jepler> bizarre
[18:02:04] <jepler> sf is working for me by the way
[18:02:05] <jepler> but I am signed in
[18:02:22] <skunkworks> what is the imagebin site?
[18:02:31] <cradek> I also get a login prompt when I try that link
[18:02:34] <jepler> apparently it retrieves that particular message as though it was posted on emc-board, maybe that has to do with the problem
[18:03:02] <cradek> Mark P pasted it into a message on the list already - no worries
[18:03:08] <skunkworks> ok
[18:03:26] <jepler> my face is red anyway
[18:03:49] <cradek> well, it's not your fault the sf archives are surprising
[18:03:54] <skunkworks> there you go - trying to hide things again.. Paul_c was right.. ;)
[18:04:04] <skunkworks> oops
[18:04:41] <jepler> what about this URL? http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=20060405140454.GY9018%40timeguy.com
[18:05:13] <cradek> that seems to work without a signin
[18:05:19] <skunkworks> same here
[18:05:57] <cradek> If you don't want commit access anymore,
[18:05:57] <cradek> that's fine, and if you try to spin it so it's my fault you made that
[18:05:57] <cradek> choice, that's also fine. It makes no difference to me; it's pretty
[18:05:59] <cradek> transparent. Let's move on, ok?
[18:06:20] <cradek> * cradek <- bad at mincing words
[18:07:00] <alex_joni> Consider using ASV.
[18:07:07] <alex_joni> err.. PASV
[18:10:23] <alex_joni> hmm.. about 14600 downloads on emc2 since 2.0.0 on sourceforge
[18:11:02] <SWPadnos> 642 of those are from me :)
[18:11:44] <alex_joni> about the same for emc1
[18:20:44] <alex_joni> who is good with wordings?
[18:20:59] <skunkworks> me
[18:21:01] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:21:07] <skunkworks> * skunkworks was just kidding
[18:21:27] <skunkworks> cradek used to be an editor iirc
[18:21:47] <cradek> that was a previous life
[18:21:53] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has an idea
[18:23:39] <alex_joni> I want to publish a short info that elections for the board of directors will be performed soon
[18:24:36] <alex_joni> cradek: mind if I use your email to the lists?
[18:24:43] <cradek> you don't think my email was enough?
[18:25:40] <jepler> particularly since only list members are eligible to vote (if I understand right)
[18:32:46] <alex_joni> cradek: done
[18:32:57] <cradek> thank you!
[18:32:59] <alex_joni> jepler: right, you understand it right
[18:33:11] <alex_joni> it should have been a couple weeks ago
[18:33:18] <alex_joni> maybe next time
[18:55:58] <alex_joni> skunkworks: you know what you have to do
[18:56:02] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BoardElection
[18:57:25] <cradek> if he wants. no pressure.
[18:58:44] <alex_joni> pressure?
[18:58:48] <alex_joni> there is no pressure :)
[19:02:24] <skunkworks> paul accepted his nomination?
[19:02:50] <skunkworks> never mind. I need to learn how to read..
[19:04:07] <alex_joni> skunkworks: one day we'll teach you :P
[19:04:17] <alex_joni> these guys have been busy:
[19:04:19] <SWPadnos> I can't believe you added Paul but forgot me :)
[19:04:20] <alex_joni> http://www.imac.unavarra.es/parallel/imagenes.php
[19:04:28] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hides ashamed
[19:04:31] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:04:33] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: sorry
[19:04:47] <alex_joni> at least I can tell you to add yourself :P
[19:05:00] <SWPadnos> no problem - I don't have a phobia about cooperating with the current EMC2 crowd ;)
[19:05:06] <alex_joni> haha
[19:05:30] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: for my defense.. I don't have my laptop (with all my emails).. was reading on gmane
[19:05:43] <SWPadnos> ewwww - you're pardoned then
[19:06:00] <cradek> I think gmane is actually pretty good
[19:06:04] <alex_joni> * alex_joni too
[19:06:36] <SWPadnos> it's just the idea of a web interface to mail that gets the ewww reaction :)
[19:07:04] <cradek> web ML archives are nice - you can link to an old email for instance
[19:07:05] <alex_joni> that's a nice hexapod
[19:07:10] <cradek> (it's just that most of them suck)
[19:07:19] <alex_joni> cradek: yeah, if they don't hcange URI's like SF did
[19:25:52] <awallin> any untrusted third parties here? ;)
[19:26:05] <SWPadnos> only one
[19:26:08] <SWPadnos> or is it two?
[19:26:15] <SWPadnos> one plus a backup, I guess
[19:27:41] <cradek> the whole point of public key cryptography is that you don't have to trust anyone
[19:28:08] <SWPadnos> obviously that's not good enough
[19:28:14] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[19:28:57] <SWPadnos> I wonder what the other solution was though - live without CVS access for anyone for - what was it - a month?
[19:29:21] <cradek> it was a few weeks before we did anything about it - very irritating
[19:29:32] <cradek> I don't know what the reliability is like now - it would be nice to know
[19:29:41] <SWPadnos> and I think the problems persisted for a few weeks after the transition
[19:30:05] <cradek> I think the problems did persist into cnc workshop, when we would have been 'stuffed'
[19:30:13] <SWPadnos> heh - this is a little like using halscope to look at timeing: whenever the SF data-gathering computers are online, so are all the CVS archives ;)
[19:30:22] <cradek> but I have no interest in arguing about it
[19:30:25] <SWPadnos> 100% uptime!
[19:30:30] <cradek> haha
[19:56:46] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: you are aware of the tuxcnc repo.. aren't you?
[20:00:46] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: because you asked about firmware stuff
[20:03:38] <cradek> sounds like maybe he plans to drop his current fork and make another one...
[20:04:05] <alex_joni> maybe there's more usefull stuff to include in the fork now ;)
[20:04:17] <cradek> probably so
[20:13:07] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, thanks - I hadn't noticed a repo at tuxcnc
[20:13:38] <alex_joni> it's not advertised, some might say it's hidden
[20:14:00] <SWPadnos> I had only asked the firmware question because it wasn't obvious to me how one would differentiate between different cards of the same model, in case you wanted different configurations for the 5i20, for example
[20:15:51] <alex_joni> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/tuxcnc/
[20:17:32] <SWPadnos> I wonder if there's any substance to the claim about rcslib changes at NIST
[20:18:07] <alex_joni> I didn't see any commits to sourceforge
[20:18:19] <cradek> pretty sure the one at sf is still committable
[20:18:25] <alex_joni> yes, it is..
[20:18:36] <SWPadnos> well, the claim was that the repo was brought back inside NIST
[20:18:50] <SWPadnos> or at least they're developing to an internal repo now
[20:19:37] <cradek> it would be impossible to say (and silly to argue about) whether we caused that, without asking fred
[20:19:55] <SWPadnos> if it's even accurate
[20:20:01] <cradek> (I'm falling on the side of "don't feed the troll" now)
[20:20:02] <cradek> right.
[20:20:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:20:23] <SWPadnos> it may be slightly too late to put that genie back in the bottle :)
[20:20:28] <alex_joni> I exchanged some emails with fred shortly after that, and he didn't mention anything about this
[20:20:55] <cradek> I've also talked to fred a few times since then
[20:22:27] <cradek> well talked once, emailed several times
[20:22:29] <cradek> brb
[20:24:20] <skunkworks> It think paul is laughing to himself right now.
[20:24:22] <skunkworks> :)
[20:26:57] <alex_joni> he always is
[20:31:36] <alex_joni> but then again he's on freenode right now, you could ask him
[20:37:24] <SWPadnos> cool -the Mesa "equivalent" to the pluto is $79 for a 200k gate Xilinx FPGA (the same one on the 5i20)
[20:37:36] <SWPadnos> or $10 more for a USB-connected one
[20:38:01] <SWPadnos> not available yet, but should be "soon"
[20:38:29] <alex_joni> cool.. will they release new products?
[20:38:39] <SWPadnos> err - that is a new product :)
[20:38:55] <jepler> SWPadnos: when you say it's "equivalent to the pluto", what do you mean?
[20:39:03] <SWPadnos> it connects to the parallel port
[20:39:03] <jepler> surely you don't mean it's parport-connected?
[20:39:08] <SWPadnos> yes, I do
[20:39:11] <jepler> huh I'm a bit surprised they'd develop such an item
[20:39:16] <SWPadnos> 7I43
[20:39:17] <jepler> sign me up, I need more hardware I don't use
[20:39:21] <alex_joni> hahaha
[20:39:31] <SWPadnos> there's a USB version as well, and a 400k-gate version is listed
[20:39:41] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: online?
[20:39:51] <SWPadnos> yep, same page as the 5i20
[20:39:58] <SWPadnos> parallelI/O - Misc I/O
[20:40:18] <SWPadnos> no manuals or software online yet
[20:40:34] <SWPadnos> it looks good though - 2 of the 50-pin connectors, like the 5i20
[20:49:22] <jepler> SWPadnos: did you e-mail them for the price? I don't see that on their website
[20:49:28] <SWPadnos> I did
[20:50:04] <SWPadnos> I didn't get the price on the 400k gate version, but the parport ones are nice - $65 in 5-24 quantity
[20:50:19] <SWPadnos> parport 200k gates, that is
[20:53:39] <skunkworks> how many gates does the pluto have?
[20:53:42] <skunkworks> 100k?
[20:53:48] <SWPadnos> 50k, I think
[20:53:54] <skunkworks> oh - wow
[20:54:02] <SWPadnos> but altera gates != xilinx gates, so who knows
[20:54:09] <skunkworks> ah
[20:55:03] <SWPadnos> my suspicion is that the xilinx is "better" per gate, because I think the Spartan II is a later generation than the Altera Acex (which I think is basically discontinued now)
[20:55:08] <jepler> the chip has 576 logic elements (1 LUT + 1 flipflop) and 12288 bits of dedicated RAM. They call it "10,000 typical gates"
[20:55:14] <SWPadnos> oh, even smaller :)
[20:55:20] <jepler> EP1K10
[20:55:26] <SWPadnos> ok, that's a bit later
[20:56:53] <jepler> is the mesa chip the XC2S200 ?
[20:57:09] <SWPadnos> I think it's the same as on the 5i20
[20:57:23] <SWPadnos> it is 200k gates, and they would probably use the same part number if they can
[20:57:58] <SWPadnos> I suspect a bit of your pluto code (EPP) plus a bit of the 5i2x code could do a lot, parport-depending
[20:58:14] <jepler> yeah
[20:58:28] <SWPadnos> and the Xilinx tools are native on Linux, which is a bonus
[20:59:27] <SWPadnos> I'm kind of bummed - they now have a version of the isolated I/O card with screw terminals - the 7i37T - but it's not available yet
[21:00:15] <jepler> the XC2S200 has 5292 "logic cells"; they look similar to an ACEX1K logic element (1 LUT + 1 flipflop)
[21:00:45] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I think the xilinx cell is actually 2 LUTs
[21:00:53] <SWPadnos> whatever they call the "cell"
[21:01:09] <jepler> That's the "CLB slice"
[21:01:12] <SWPadnos> ah, right
[21:01:26] <jepler> it does have 2 LUT + 2 FF
[21:02:21] <jepler> there are 1176 CLBs
[21:02:31] <jepler> I dunno how they come up with 5292 logic cells, in that case
[21:02:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:03:13] <SWPadnos> obviously, there are 4.5 logic cells per CLB!
[21:03:16] <jepler> indeed
[21:06:10] <jepler> ""The Spartan-II LUT can also provide a 16-bit shift register that is ideal for capturing high-speed or burst-mode data."
[21:06:13] <jepler> "
[21:06:14] <jepler> interesting
[21:06:31] <SWPadnos> right - 2x CLB each with 2x LUT
[21:06:42] <SWPadnos> err - 2x slice each with 2x LUT
[21:06:55] <jepler> have you accounted for the ".5" yet?
[21:07:06] <SWPadnos> "additional carry logic" ??
[21:09:33] <jepler> SWPadnos: let me know when they're selling those boards, would you?
[21:09:49] <SWPadnos> I'll let you know as soon as I know. want one if I get some?
[21:10:06] <jepler> not more than one
[21:10:33] <SWPadnos> right. I'd hope to get the qty. 5 price, so it should be almost pluto-esque
[21:10:49] <jepler> bbl
[21:10:52] <SWPadnos> see you