nice how matt shaver jumps in and tries to find an actual answer
the nerve of some people
cradek: the pid display on the lathe_pluto is pretty cool :)
* pid output
ah thanks, I like it too, it shows me when things are about to get ugly
I bet. :)
cradek: I just committed the docs updates for the 5i20 changes, both trunk and 2.1 branch
you're a hero
I dunno if there are any other issues that we need to hit, but I think the 5i20 is done. It would be nice of one of the folks who was having problems could test it on an actual machine before you do the 2.1.7 release, but that would mean walking them thru a compile from CVS
dunno, I bet your bench test is pretty good
I hope so
[03:05:10] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39532
I'm not motivated to support the 8 channel "old" config
I want to get the "new" one working
jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
skunkworks: have any 4096-line (16384 count) encoders?
or is the 2540-line your finest
2540 is the finest right not.
no, not yet
last time you mentioned it - I thought you where going to keep pdm and had found a few 'mistakes' that had freed up some space in the pluto.
well yes and kinda
or kinda and yes
still pretty tight then huh :)
I do think I can keep pdm, increase the encoder limits, and add a watchdog
we have some servos here at work - I will check to see what encoders are on the back. They are new and my be pretty high line count. (they are not being used right not)
but in my working copy I've already removed pdm so I'll end up going through it all again
ugg - now
Wow - that is cool
I might have removed pdm anyway, except that two users popped up who want to use it :-P
that is how it works. ;)
How many users do you know of that are using the pluto?
do you get a lot of emails?
not a huge number. Maybe a half dozen people I've heard from, including you and cradek
The_Ball, centaur. I think xemet bought a board but hasn't used it yet.
it is a start :)
The only issue so far for me is I exited emc and the pluto kept running until I physically shut the computer off. But it just may have been an issue with my computer and it hasn't happened more than once.
hal must have still been running in the background
(it was still running closed loop)
oh you mean the servo kept position?
yes - I could turn the shaft and it would fight back.. LED would show the amount of pwm to the servo.
that'd be some general emc shutdown bug, then -- not a pluto bug
Yes - right.
(watchdog wouldn't have helped there)
oh noes! ;)
is the guy you helped down in peoria named steve and from MI?
no, it wasn't a steve
it was .. jack something?
ok - I must have talked to someone I don't remember. Someone emailed be about some servos he wanted to get rid of. I remember talking to 'jack' about that - but no one else. :)
ah - it is the puma guy.
that's steve white
now I remember
right. Must have talked to my dad about some random large servos he had
somehow he has my email.. must be on - or looked on the emc userlist.
jepler: I'm trying to fix jogging with the mouse. Do you remember what you were trying to fix when you did this button_jog_axis stuff?
what was it?
I can probably make it work but I want to know if I rebreak the original thing
cradek: start jogging with the mouse, then change the active axis with the keyboard, then jog with "+" key, then release the "+" key and the mouse
I think maybe jog_stop() should stop button_jog_axis, not current_axis
or maybe the first jog is with a key and the second is with the mouse, I'm not sure
is this for 2.2 or is there still an easy-to-hit problem on TRUNK?
er, on 2.1 branch
is this for 2.2 or is there still an easy-to-hit problem on 2.1?
trunk is totally broken
I have not tried 2.1 but I think it works
err, jogging with the mouse on trunk is totally broken
OK -- I thought I heard someone refer in passing to an AXIS bug in 2.1 but I don't know what it is
hm, I don't know
oh! numpad in touch-off
yuck I don't want to look at that
I know, maybe I'll try
I'm letting myself be tempted once again to check in support for sim hardware drivers
it's just so handy when testing pluto, I don't have to leave my laptop or reboot it with the RT kernel (where I get overruns anyway)
'./configure ... --enable-sumlator-drivers=unsupported'
I think it's a bad idea.
I know you do
but this is the 3rd or 4th time I've written it
do you think even I am mistaken to use such a mode?
or you just think that any number of barriers and warnings is not enough to keep someone from using it mistakenly?
"with the right configure flags, I don't have to worry about a realtime kernel - I'll just be careful to not run any other programs while my mill is going"
I understand that "works" with some other unnamed control software
oh I'm pretty sure it won't actually give a usable pulse train
for a servo machine one might be fooled into thinking it works well enough
quite possibly -- I know the brightness ramp on the LED for the pluto demo looks pretty smooth
oh look, keyboard autorepeat
did -/= jogging ever work?
looks fine in 2.1.5 but maybe it stutters in continuous mode (I used sim)
yeah, it must
nope I got a nice stable Xvel in hal while jogging X in continuous mode with "-"
I'm choosing mouse over -/= for now in trunk
that seems like the more important one, but -/= is the only way to jog BC and joints above 3
at the keyboard, I mean
yeah I know
the 2.1 bug (which occurs only when you're using the keyboard and mouse at the same ****ing time) may be the best of any combination we've tried so far
what kind of .... would do that?
was it a reported bug or a corner case you found when looking for corner cases?
it was a corner case I found
no user would do that, are you kidding?
well users are sometimes very surprising
umm well yes you're right I suppose
ok I have the old code working
it's possible to get runaway using just the keyboard though
hold -, press x, release -?
I'll try to make axis_activated stop any existing jog
no that'll break the arrows
the arrows activate the axis on release; I wonder if that's why
argh I hate this
clearly I'm incompetent
just look at this mess of code I wrote
yeah that must be it, not that it's hard or anything
or that jogging 6 joints with two buttons is a bad idea
and don't take all the credit - I wrote some of this abomination too
I wonder what happens if you change from continuous to incremental with a jog in progress
* jepler claws his eyes out
* skunkworks hands jepler a cauterizer
so, does anyone think I will have an issue getting less than .0005" following error once I get my big servos hooked up? assuming the h'bridge can run them.
what encoder resolution?
are you using
* skunkworks is needing some reassurance :)
um - hold on
at what speed?
with what cutting load?
and are you assuming 0.0005 in "ideal encoder counts" or in "actual machine movement"?
:) well - if dad was talking - we won't go above 100ipm.
actaul machine movement
then that'll depend on the machine :)
actual encoder resolution is .000015
sorry - then I ment actual encodr counts
ok. with good tuning, you may be able to get 0.0005 then (it's ~30 encoder counts, which seems like a lot in theory)
of course, that's based on zero experience, so YMMV :)
just a little worred again about there being only one loop. But I just keep telling my self - self, cradeks lathe works just fine.
INPUT_SCALE = 6000
FERROR = .1
MIN_FERROR = .03
[all in mm]
so his counts are half as big as yours
but his min_ferror is twice as big as you're hoping for
his scale is a magnatude larger. (60960)
crap - metric
he has 6000 per mmm? wow
crap, my dapper is borked
mmm? is that like (mm)^(3/2)?
dap! my crapper is borked
that works too ;)
alex_joni: uh oh, what did you do to it
jepler: nothing.. started it up after a while..
mmm should be micro meter
when I try to log in (X) it just hangs for a while, then presents the log-in window again
so his inch count would be 152400 or so.. wow.
* skunkworks is worried again ;)
sounds like 2.5x yours
jepler: managed to log-in to a failsafe with only a terminal, started metacity & gnome-panel by hand.. and it seems to work
anyone knows where gnome would have some logs?
jepler: do you happen to know what you send in AXIS for program stop? is it abort?
alex_joni: abort and stop are two different things
hm actually I think the stop button does send EMC_TASK_ABORT
same as ESC
Button .toolbar.program_stop \
-command task_stop \
-helptext [_ "Stop program execution \[ESC\]"] \
right.. maybe that's why tkemc doesn't have a stop button
so yeah I am sending EMC_TASK_ABORT for the "stop" toolbar button and the ESC key
ok, seems to fit into what I remembered
* alex_joni wonders why there's a TASK_PLAN_END message though
that's put in the interp_list for PROGRAM_END
oh, it's the message for the end of the program (put on the queue by interp)
so probably not for sending from the GUI
yeah, doesn't actually do much (in task)
* alex_joni ponders if he should add halui.program.stop to do the same as halui.abort
seems like a note in the documentation would do.
I added it.. can't hurt
skunkworks: I didn't pick that resolution on purpose - it just turned out that way
my following errors are somewhat under .01mm (.4 mil) unless something is going wrong
which is still tens of counts I guess
I bet a transfer function that gets rid of the deadzone around PID output 0 would improve things
surely less machine backlash would too
yeah, the machine is sloppy in a lot of ways
I'm helping a friend set up a servo machine
4 x pwm + L298 + mouse encoder
all driven by 2 parports
alex_joni: going to need pictures :)
skunkworks: sure thing
oh, did I mention it's a spinoff of my tripod?
very cool.. Cable run?
yeah, something like that
so kins required?
it has to run by saturday.. we'll see
Our machine should not have any backlash - and if it does it should be all adjustable out. (dual ball nuts and such)
alex_joni: software pwm and mouse encoders with kinematics? sounds like a nightmare I had!
I would be right at home.. ;)
= bad dream
I know what a nightmare is..
was wondering why ?
sounds like a nice dream to me :P
sounds like a lot of finicky work to make it work right, especially the encoders
of course I still think it might work..
software encoder counting too?
sure I bet you'll get it to work
the job is to get it running by saturday
sounds like a school project :)
it's not quite complete (mechanical)
skunkworks: it is..
I might bring out the big guns if it doesn't work (e.g. 5i20)
aww - thats cheating.. :) Mouse encoders seem to work just fine. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/Fastermouse.png
I won't go into details
because you'll tell me exactly what I'm trying to deny :D
do you have mechanical or optical mouse encoders?
roughly 5-10 counts / mm
and 2800 rpm motors with 1:2 reduction
* alex_joni runs away screaming
mechanical encoders? what does that mean? wheel and sensor or something else?
with about 50-100 mm / turn?
skunkworks: wheel and optos
skunkworks: my guts tell me it won't work..
jepler: how's the etch working at low speed?
his servos have a pretty high gear reduction I think
they are gear head servos.
but I don't remember how well it ran at low speeds
I never tuned it properly, and always ran it on a laptop that didn't quite work right for realtime
I wonder if these motors will run that slow reliably