cradek: yes, I just loaded the RecentChanges page.
and it was also working for me back at 18:04
* jepler wanders off again
good or bad (lathe mode)? http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/dia.png
works for me
do you think it should be between X and Z?
it's not very pretty
wellllll I understand why you put it there
[00:20:34] <jepler> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/docs/src/gui/i2g-roughing.png?rev=1.1
if I tried to draw a diameter symbol I'm afraid it would look like a slashed 0, or the home icon, or who knows what
I admit I envisioned it going after Z but I see it your way too
that might make it prettier though
I tried it after Z - it seemed harder to understand
put it first, before X?
it is subordinate to the actual X value
then it's the best of choices -- check it in
sorry, I didn't mean to ask for your opinion and then say `nay' to everything you said
(I hate that)
well it's not set in stone
that's very true
perhaps you should be able to drag and drop them :-P
hm, the diameter goes negative
that's either good, or bad, or both
emcmotStatus->spindle.speed += 1; //FIXME - make the step a HAL parameter
jepler: the spindle does seem to count right - I ran it for 5000 rotations and the index dot still lines up
actually spindle increment should be in the ini file - it's a gui issue, not a hal problem
jepler: you still up?
I'm fine with today's trunk being the "future version" in which naming a signal after a pin is an error
jmkasunich: yep still up
I'll change it so it's an error, then
halcmd: net siggen.0.cosine => siggen.0.amplitude
HAL:2: Signal name 'siggen.0.cosine' may not be the same as a pin.
something about that phasing
must not be the same ...
"siggen.0.cosine is a pin name, may not be used for a signal" ?
may not looks like it's complaining / asking a question
HAL:2: Signal name 'siggen.0.cosine' must not be the same as a pin.
OK whoever cares deeply may change the message
HAL:2: The name you chose for your new signal, 'siggen.0.cosine' , is the same as a pin. This is very likely to cause confusion, and you're probably already confused - we know this because you're using a pin name for a signal, and the pin youwant to connect won't be connected because of that.
just add a link to the wiki and you're through
... If you know how to use the World Wide Web, here's a place that has more information (if you can read)
no, you must invoke their browser and load the page!
even better - invoke lynx, because we don't know that they're using X ;)
surf on to the internet at: (spell out the URL in letters just to make it easier)
check the BROWSWE env var first
if not found, THEN invoke lynx
nono you should invoke sensible-browser
that's the debian way
no, run lynx, then if there's a BROWSER env var, run that one too
(there's also sensible-pager)
then use the sensible-browser, because after 3 impressions, they may remember the information
so I think you first popen(sensible-pager) to print the error messsage, then use sensible-browser to show them the wiki page
see you Jeff
oh - I finally got around to calling the hotel in Galesburg
did they deny ever talking to you?
they had the reservation, but had me down for one night less than I thought - you may want to check on yours one day
then again, I may just leave a day early anyway, I'm not sure
they did have the correct weekly rate though, which is a good thing
it's depressing, I keep finding stuff that needs improvement, and I hack it and crap it up more instead
well, don't do that ;)
what'd you mess up this time?
the tool table I want to fix at fest
in AXIS if the tool is < 1, I assume it's inches, otherwise mm
I saw that "if its more than 1, assume inches thing
and I said to myself - people are not gonna like that
I'd say leave it the way it is until we fix it right
well, it's busted yesterday and today both
it works for me today
leave it the way it was, I meant ;)
I think AXIS was totally broken for all metric machines with tool tables
I'm puzzled that we didn't hear about it
hmmm. have we heard this from other users?
I suspect VERY few people use tool comp
I'm so very glad the motion controller doesn't deal with units
ok, I guess not :)
(possibly because it's hard to use)
and the gui buttons increasing/decreasing the spindle by 1 rpm? guess nobody uses those either, they were useless
might be more than you think - once they figure it out, they just go on and use it without talking about it
I know there have been spirited discussions about tool length, but I'm not sure about diameter
it's hard to get around it with a lathe - you need to use it to get the arcs you want
I think the EMCMOT_SPINDLE_INCREASE command should pass an increment
yeah - EMCMOT_SPINDLE_INCREASE_BY ...
no, we should remove those stupid messages and send the requested speed in rpm or rps
I was about to suggest that
no - there are any number of UIs that may have up and down buttons
the gui can do addition all by itself
and some of them may be buttons on a panel
I think this is some of that "NIST Philosophy" think
you have a race condition with multiple GUIs
maybe we need both
you can have 4 guis, and each one can say "increase"
yes, there are problems either way
unless you make the same argument for the overrides...
any of the guis can say to set the spindle speed, the rest should show the new value
any of the guis can set it to current+100 if they want to have an increase button
I wasn't saying the increase was needed, just splaining why it was there
and HALUI would just need to be the place for a button to connect
halui is kind of a special case
it shouldn't be
I think it uses -counts for spindle override for instance
well there's no 'button' equivalent of some gui widgets
like a slider
it has an encoder input for knobs
thats why it uses counts
I thought it also had the up/down inputs
ok maybe it does
I think the comments have that feature
In the near future, DeskCNC will work with the ncPOD. There will be
some changes because the ncPOD uses the more advanced EMC2
Fred Smith - IMService
from the CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO yahoo group
yep - noticed earlier today
I saw some of the earlier discussion... should be interesting to see where it goes
tom C cut it off earlier today, so there shouldn't be much more on the list
I really should be in bed. good night
What surprises me is that there isnt an easy way to get fast I/O in and out of a PC anymore
fast, yes. low latency, no
I see Alfred Smart has merely reiterated that he has a problem
jepler: I think his problem is that he doesn't use a proper loop for estop
when jmk & I implemented the stuff for estop in iocontrol, we (he) thought that a ladder would be best
iocontrol.cc has a statement about this at the very top
alex_joni: how is married life?
no difference :D
:) well - congradulations.
alex_joni: I tried unlinking iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in and using "setp" to just make it true all the time -- I still couldn't the behavior he reported.
re: get smart, he hasn't provided his halui file, or any other parts of his HAL configuration
he directly e-mailed me something -- I think it's a partial hal file
there's an inifile down here too but the formatting got fucked by his stupid mailer
yeah - I saw the ini file, complete with word wrapping
I was thinking that he may have (mis)connected something to halui.program_start or something
# connect e-stop write/sense to I/O controller
newsig EstopSense bit
newsig EstopWrite bit
linksp EstopSense <= parport.1.pin-13-in
linksp EstopSense => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
linksp EstopWrite <= parport.1.pin-16-out
linksp EstopWrite => iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
he has nearly every arrow in the wrong direction, it seems
luckily they're ignored
OT: do you think it's fair to say that EMC2 bugs that affect users (ie, the execution of their g-code) are generally fixed within a day?
what does "fixed" mean?
a new released version of 2.1 takes weeks
what's a bug report?
often we have to fish for information for days
well, fixed in that they could probably get a new version of source and compile
on the CCED list, there's still some ncpod discussion
I'm not sure why you'd want to make a claim like that
one of the guys basically said "i've had problems, and of course it's because they're using that buggy EMC code"
it's sure true that many bugs are fixed very fast
"use Mach, Art fixed a whole lot of bugs"
I hate everyone.
ok - if it's not really a fair statement, I won't make it :)
you're wasting your breath arguing with those folks
it's the 10000 others who are just reading that I want to impress
with the fact that the people they're listening to aren't telling the truth
sorry, I retract my discouragement
even if, inside, I still think it's true
sure, I understand it's a stupid battle, but I prefer to do something rather than sit around doing nothing
hmmm - a few of the bugs in the tracker may be fixed now
specifically, the net command, 1700407
"net command lines silently ignored if signal name is missing"
oh I thought I went ahead and closed that one
could be, but it is SF
I'll close it some more
lock it this time
I thought the dwell problem was also fixed 1680007
but I could certainly be wrong about that
I don't remember that being fixed
I changed axis so it was less likely to be triggered by actions in the GUI (or maybe not possible to trigger anymore?)
ok. I remember discussions, but I don't remember if there was a fix
but if you send the right sequence of NML messages I'm pretty sure it still happens.
(and I don't recall whether I made the axis change on 2.1 or just on trunk)
it appears the bug closing worked this time, thanks
I probably forgot to hit "submit" or something
well, I sent the mail, complete with a light comment about not being able to find the ncpod source code :)
crap. it looks like linuxcnc.org is down
hmmm. DNS issue
It was down for a bit this morning
I am running irc thru it right now.
comes up here.
dreamhost has a DNS issue at the moment
so it's questionable as to whether you can find it, but once you're connected it's OK
I just opened a new browser and got there.
and from a different computer.
yep - it's working for me as well (though the wiki isn't for the moment)
ah, there it is :)
yep -- http://www.dreamhoststatus.com/2007/05/23/more-dns-issues/
Your request for http://www.dreamhoststatus.com/2007/05/23/more-dns-issues/
could not be fulfilled, because the domain name www.dreamhoststatus.com could not be resolved.
wow - lots of angry people out there.
here's a highly thoght out response: "ya bill? if u think u can do better, y not open ur own company? huh?!?"
if u cant type all the letters, u dont deserve to use a 'puter
I still can't load that page
strange. but it is a DNS issue
I don't understand why an informative page like dreamhoststatus should have comments
cradek: it's a blog.. some people feel the need to let off steam
and they probably feel better afterwards if they "told" their oppinion
hrmm.. lots of comments now (80 when I checked last time..)
ah I didn't think of that - it distracts them
keeps them busy for a while, and makes them feel better
way better then flooding support tickets
kind of like that toy my cats play with
kinda the same intelligence for the people who need this :P
hmmm. can the board please decide on what to do about the ncpod code pretty soon?
gah. I can't get to cvs.linuxcnc.org
does anyione know when EMC was first released as GPL (or alternately, when it was last released as PD)?
add it to your host
emc is still not GPL
only emc2 is GPL
hmmm. I'm pretty sure that the changes Paul made to EMC1 are GPL
among others which "might" be non-free
I'm not sure that's only the BDI4 stuff though
his BDI-4 is not in the EMC1 tree
I guess I'm wondering when the last revisions to the PD code were done
and I don't think I saw GPL on any of his emc1 stuff.. but I didn't look to hard
(in the PD code, not in proprietary products based on it)
last release was 1.2.0-rc1 I think
that was 16 months ago
don't think there is anything more recent in there
ok, so still relatively recent
not like the 5-6 year timeframe I was thinking
I guess that's when it moved to SF from the NISTserver
weeell.. I basicly reverted some changes and released
that was 2000
when it got moved
hmm. I guess the rumley changes were in the PD code
and maybe Lerman's as well
but they were mixed together
anyways.. the board shall address them in an email requesting information about version they used
ok. there's another one as well, but it's probably using an older version of the code, http://www.usbcnc.com/
I sent an email to the other board members, and we'll handle it
SWPadnos: thanks for bringing it to our attention :P
hmm.. was there USB2 6 years ago?
I don't think so
I'm checking the usbcnc program now, but the tools I have on this Windows machine aren't all that great :)
I see no reason for usbcnc
you get 25kHz .. wow :/
a parport easily does 50
how's it going ray?
I've got pwmgen running a VFD for spindle speed.
Nice work in there.
pwmgen software or pluto/mesa hardware?
pwmgen in HAL and a prototype board from PMDX.
It's an addon to their 131
less $ than Bob Campbell's "digispeed-GX"?
I know nothing of Bob's stuff.
(at $59 or so, I think - isolated PWM or ananlog to analog VFD interface)
oops - Peter Homann
not Bob campbell
[17:23:43] <SWPadnos> http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=21
This allows you to run manual spindle, auto spindle like turbocad or full direction and speed.
$28 and up, I guess
ah - manual control is a nice option that I don't think the digispeed has
Steve worked pretty hard to make it go with Chinese VFDs and with Sieg's brushless.
I see that the doc (stepper.lyx) is short a couple of connections to pwm. Value and spindle direction.
These will vary with the output device but value needs to be connected to motion.0.spindle-speed-out.
SWPadnos: you could mention that rigid tapping is being developed. - which will solve the forward/reverse spindle issue. If I am thinking right.
What kind of issue are you seeing, skunkworks?
I was reading the cced list. there is a heated discution about the ncpod that trickled over into emc2
1ppr like what mach uses vs the encoder + index emc uses
You can see that I'm rapidly becoming obsolete!
rayh: I sent an email to the board list
ah okay. Let me look.
there is a USB controller out there, with some emc code in it
[17:48:17] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/message/92684
hmm I think I have stopped recieving devel list emails.
skunkworks: looks like the last message I got was today (5/24) from ben lipkowitz
jepler: I must have not notice I wasn't getting them. Last message was 10/31/06. :o
that may have been around the time when I lost both. cradek fixed the userlist. must not have thought about the devel list
what's your addy?
you can send it in a /msg to me
samco at empirescreen ?
didn't see anything wrong ..
hmm. let me make a phone call
maybe cradek remembers what he did for emc-users
thought so :P
if it was more than 15 minutes ago I don't remember
I know our mail service somethimes blocks emails it thinks is spam
I'm seeing one issue that I think is related to the tristate estop, estop reset, machine on.
I'm using an external estop button to signal emc that an estop has been pressed.
It puts emc into the estop reset condition.
This condition allows spindle motion.
for an external estop to keep emc in estop you need ladder
it's the only way we could make it flexible enough
I'm pretty sure machine off (which I think is the same as estop reset?) turns off the spindle
am I wrong?
I was using ladder and the second run of my demo.
It doesn't seem to turn the spindle off. Abort does it.
are you using ver 2.1.1 or later?
trunk from a month ago.
I'm guessing it's pretty close to 2.1.5
ok the bug I'm thinking of was fixed about 25 Feb
Should be fixed in this then.
if you hit F2 on the kbd does it stop the spindle?
and with the ladder the way I've got it f1 doesn't do anything
The external estop will stop everything.
here, F2, does turn spindle off
I wonder if your version is older than you think, or this was fixed more recently than I think
Might be. Let me hook up that machine and bring it to date.
I just ran sim/tkemc
F1 F2, F9 (shows spindle forward), F2 (shows spindle off)
if that test fails for you, it's fixed :-)
Well the test failed. So one of us is right. Doesn't matter which. I know how to fix it. Thanks again, Chris.
wow. this thing looks really old.
That fixed it, thanks Chris. Now to update my config.
cradek: I did your test on emc 2.1.4 and it showed "ESTOP RESET" ... "SPINDLE FORWARD" on the buttons in tkemc
I'm upgrading to 2.1.5 through apt-get now
so - yah - I am recieving them. [Emc-developers]
2.1.5 shows "ESTOP RESET" ... "SPINDLE OFF"
skunkworks: good :)
I unchecked the prevent duplicates checkbox
downgrading to 2.1.4 to verify what I saw ..
oh?? It must have been very recent and I forgot to put it in the release notes then
I'm going to take a look through the 'cvs log' between 2.1.4 and 2.1.5 and see if I can spot it there
yep, I get the bug in 2.1.4, gone in 2.1.5
I did, and I spotted it
--- emctask.cc24 Oct 2006 20:04:36 -00001.20
+++ emctask.cc17 Apr 2007 02:21:12 -00001.20.4.1
just didn't make the changelog
I added it to the wiki page with the changelogs
no reason why we couldn't put it in the cvs changelog too I guess
I was just wondering how to do that
just add the line and do nothing else
we still want the tag to reflect the version that was released
latest comment on that dreamhost page: MY SITE IS STILL DOWN IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
though Yunnan Says: Mine 10 domains look like working also.
Yep. Estop reset works nice now.
took a bit to find the change from max-axis to num-axis in HAL.
should probably read the changelog, eh.
where do we have the list of things that are changing in trunk (which will eventually be required for going from 2.1 to 2.2)?
[19:33:02] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingConfigurationsForDevelopmentVersions
found it, but it doesn't have the change ray mentioned
That change may have happened quite a while back.
no, it's quite recent in TRUNK
1-2 weeks tops
I think jmk changed it
my fault for using head
I'll try to remember/help everyone remember to keep that list updated
it will be nice when 2.2.0 rolls around
hey guys. I got the info back from the print shop:
#28 for 2-sided printing and drilling a hole in 5.5 x 8.5 ref cards
$45 for lamination using 3 mil plastic
$68 for lamination using 5 mil plastic
I think we'd need to re-punch the laminated hole, or I can ask them to do it (they'd probably do it for free or a couple of dollars total)
So - am I understanding the ncpod right? you use emc2 trajectory planner to make a the data that gets dumped into the pod. So FO would not work - would it? I guess maybe you could slow it down.. but not speed it up
skunkworks: we don't know, since we don't have the source
I suspect that the interpreter makes up primitives (canon) which get sent to the device
the device than runs the TP, I think
it should be the same split we have along the NML lines, just using a USB interconnect between the modules instead of SHM
but as jepler mentioned, we don't know, because we haven't seen the code
from the files in the sdk, I was only able to determine that they have a .exe file which contains strings that were added to our gcode interpreter under the GPL license
jepler, do you know what you want on the back side of the G-code quick ref?
or, more accurately, is it done yet? :)
SWPadnos: no, I haven't touched it
if the ref cards are going to be half-letter I might just split the gcode into two halves
I'm not sure what the turnaround time will be from the printer, but it's likely that the sooner the better
I don't want to have to use a jeweler's loupe to read the letters
what quantity was that quote for?
so ~$1.00 each with the thicker lamination
(or ~$0.75 for the thinner stuff)
I guess I don't know enough to say whether the greater thickness is needed
neither of those is "light" - the 3 mil is considered medium weight and the 5 mil is heavy weight
I bet the 5 is that tough stuff that doesn't bend
maybe almost like a drivers license
the engineer here says they usually use 1 mil :) so I would think 3 would be good
well, I just measured the thickness of a blister pack for a computer cable, and it's 15 mils thick
you think a laminated-plastic-mil is the same as your crazy american measuring tool?
why, of course
ok, just checking
and my measuring tool is Chinese, so there :P
I'm sure the 3 mil is fine, though the 5 mil may give a better impression :)
SWPadnos: I love the statement 'Mach3 works great for threading with a single pulse per rev'
the tread has turned into a mach vs emc - linux vs windows
yeah, interesting isn't it
I'm pretty sure Art said that he doesn't get the gage-perfect (or nearly so) threads that Chris was turning out
if someone has some go/nogo threading gauges, we could test
but other than doing that, debating about it is stupid
We have a set of thread gauges - but no go/nogo gauges
SWPadnos: I made a short tech article about threading too: http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/35/13/lang,en/
(just fyi if you need to refer to it in the future)
alex_joni: very nice
skunkworks: as usual.. it can be extended :P
tell me - do those things on the end of the screws look like servo mounts to you? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220106988881
as much as you can see they do. but it is odd not having the pully on the end with the knob.
not a big deal for me, since I really wand just the motor mounts
"Runs EMC 2.x standalone"
talk about understanding things the wrong way.. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/message/92658
I say we add chris morley to the devs, and nominate him for keeping track of classicladder
I have a G43 question
the RS274NGC manual says it's expected that all TLO entries in the tool table are positive
so why isn't there a G44 then?
petev: positive and negative work fine
he's not here
cradek: the manual says they must be positive, though
seems like you want to be sure that the requested machine position is not, in fact, above where you are now
4 4 -7.25 -4.26 0.0 120.0 60.0 6
(that could mean you already stuffed your tool into the work, after all)
most of mine are negative on the lathe
* cradek shrugs
what I'd really like to know is where are my allen wrenches?
"It is expected that all entries in this table will be positive. " -- http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/RS274NGC_3/RS274NGC_33a.html#1013768
I copied that text verbatim into our manual
if it's wrong it should be fixed
I have been thinking we should have a section on the specific areas where we do not follow the rs274ngc spec
but I haven't written it yet
I don't know what expected means ... and I don't know how abnormal my setup is
yes that would be nice
do you think you know any of these items offhand? (deliberate differences from rs274ngc)
where we don't follow it, or where we intended not to follow it?
the location after a tool change
more specifically, where we intend not to follow it
that's the only one I can think of right now
soon, the tool table units, if I have my way
g5x/g9x offsets stored in parameters
maybe I don't know about this?
you wrote it
I think they are stored that way
oh the units of those
ys the units
which is the unsupported canned cycle -- back boring?
probing differences: I purposely ignored "even after overshooting the requested point a little bit"
anything with spindle orient - but that's simply unimplemented, not a departure on purpose
G84 right-hand tapping? It says this is currently unimplemented up above
"In EMC2, the machine does not return to its original position after a tool change. This change was made because the new tool might be longer than the old tool, and the move to the original machine position could therefore leave the tool tip too low."
the numbers stored in 506x after a probe -- they are in active units, not inifile units, right?
I think they are in active units AND with all active offsets applied
iirc, that is not explicit in the spec
but that's not a difference between emc2 and rs274ngc
yes, iirc ngc is vague about it
What's the rationale for the G38.2 retraction change?
you mean that we don't retract when it's done?
that may just be unimplemented
(I think it's probably good to do that)
jmk and I want to discuss better probing primitives (to allow better surface digitizing)
I don't doubt that it's possible, particularly with a 3-point probe
you can just "walk" over the surface with the probe
I imagine some kind of inverted-V shaped movement
[23:11:53] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/message/92772
I would reply but it is getting way off topic - and I would sound like an emc fan-boy
skunkworks: I suggest spending your effort for something useful instead
in may 2007 not everyone feels like free software is for them - that shouldn't injure us in the least
it was like that in may 1997 too - wonder how it will be in may 2017
well - I never thought I would get into linux either
I do know that the EMC will be around in 2017 if anyone still cares to work on it.
jepler: the probing overshoot?
jepler: I like the quick ref changes
cradek: G43 H-1 is particularly improved