cradek: still around?
are you looking at the 3000+ lb machines because you need/want a bigger machine?
of because thats what you've seen available?
because I want to reasonably be able to cut metal, and aside from my toy mill, that's what I've used
I noticed smithy was going to demo a machine at fest - I'm anxious to see that
have you considered adding a ballscrew conversion to either a used bport manual, or a new or used off-brand manual?
I assume it's their bench mill
the $11,000 one?
I don't know their prices, but if you say so...
the manuals (without ballscrews) seem to cost about the same as the old cnc series 1 etc, so I figured starting with the screws on it would be much smarter
this smithy: https://www.smithy.com/products.php?cid=11&scid=16&pid=7
my bad, its only $10300
yep I bet that's what they will show
you can get a new enco manual for $3200
granted thats a lot more than the trashed out CNCs at HGR
but its also not trashed out
unless I could get a bolt-on screw kit (if there is such a thing) I'm not confident I'd have the required equipment (or skill) to mount replacement screws
[00:28:59] <jmkasunich> http://www.microkinetics.com/convkit.htm
there is also the "equipment/skill to repair trashedness" factor
bottom of the page on that last link
do you think the chances of getting something untrashed enough to make parts for $2k at HGR is small?
I don't have the experience to know that really
I think in your situation the chances are small
if you could visit HGR every month or so, and be ready to buy when the right machine comes in, you could probably do good
the machine jon elson stuck new motors on - it looked like it had an average life, but I could see it making parts with not much more work
might be a year or more till the right one comes in
yeah that's sure true
I'd be willing to visit HGR to check out machines for you, but I'm not willing (or able) to make a proper evaluation of condition
the person who is gonna do the work has to be the one who looks at the machine
(I could serve as a first level screen, to tell you "that ones really trashed, you don't want it" )
I would not think of asking you to pick a machine and send it to me - that would be crazy
I could pick a machine and say "you should look at this one"
its not exactly a hardship for me to visit HGR once a month ;-)
If I know you are in the market, I'll look more closely at mills
I'd happily pay ray or someone like him to help me pick a good candidate - but geography is a huge hindrance
my experience with my 13" south bend lathe is a case in point
they got three of them in at the same time, probably from the same plant
one was trashed, missing lots of important bits
one was so-so
and one was pretty darned good
although pretty darned good still meant it had several problems that made it unusable without repairs
from the pics on the website, you couldn't tell which was which
yeah their photos and descriptions are about worth what you pay for them.
they make their money by selling tons of stuff, not by getting top dollar per item
their handling of the merchandise, and everything else, all reflects that
I've seen many items that lost value after arriving at HGR because _they_ damaged the machine while moving it in their warehouse
here is one of the things I had to fix on the lathe
[00:45:02] <jmkasunich> http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/tscrew1.jpg
(not the fact that its cut in half, the fact that the threads were chewed by a rabid metal-rat
the right one is the tool post? what's the left?
I can virtually guarantee you that an HGR grade machine (from anywhere) is gonna need repairs like that
that is the tailstock screw
story here: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/tscrew.txt
should have switched tailstocks when they weren't looking?
I don't recall the condition of the other tailstocks
besides thats unethical
whoever wound up with the other two had enough problems as it is
nice drill bit: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/untwisted.jpg
how in the hell does one do that?
I bet heat is involved
easy - buy a drill bit from china and then try to drill something that catches it
I've seen china drills that were soft at room temperature
but strangely, the edge still looks relatively sharp, and it's not broken
I suppose if you use ductile iron or something
(for the bit)
its not broken because its shit steel or shit heat-treat or both
[00:57:17] <SWPadnos> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=20-648-001
I wonder what the spindle taper is?
it doesn't look like the spindle nose on a manual bport
dunno - looks like CAT 30-40 (if those exist)
yeah - it's probabl not an R8 quill
that actually looks pretty good from here
nothing obviously broken
I think they have about three like that one
I saw a Tree CNC mill that had the entire X motor drive busted off
I mean, 1/4" thick cast iron bracket with ribs, broken
this one: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=30-319-007&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
note the visible pulley at the right end of the table
it ain't supposed to be visible
the series 1 that swp posted as the advantage of weighing a ton
(instead of two tons)
hmm, I bet its hard to check out a CNC machine
one of the first things I do when looking at a machine is crank the screws, to feel for binding/grinding, to see how jammed up stuff is, and to check backlash
hard to do when there is no access to the screws
I'd just assume that the ballscrews will need replacing, and then be happily surprised if they don't
that mill looks to be in reasonable shape, but the important things are there: the motor mounts
I think you guys are telling me this is an impossible task
replacing the screws will cost half the price of the machine
no - it's actually pretty easy to replace the ballscrews on a brigeport
I've actually done that to mine
how much did the screws cost?
or can you get rolled ones that fit?
I got good screws (precision ground, new old stock chinese) for $650
ok, 1/3 the cost of the machine
new, with yoke, X+Y
sure, but motors cost me $350 (which is a very good deal for these)
off the shelf somewhere, or as a result of much searching and some good luck?
the mounts are a PITA to make, though I bought a Z mount for $300 or so
eBay, Machine Tools Direct
I'm not sure if they stil lhave any, that was ~3 years ago
those were for a manual mill though, not CNC
cradek: not an impossible task
but not easy either
the nice thing is, you already have a small CNC, so if you need to make a part, you can
assuming the part in question fits on the small mill
it's a little harder with only a manual machine that you're actively trying to modify ;)
comes back to the time/money tradeoff
the more time you can spend (not just working on the mill once you have it, but time spent searching/shopping), the more money you save
though purchasing things for the larger machines seems to be waaaay more expensive, and there are very few plans around
cradek: how tall is the ceiling in the space where you would put the mill
* jmkasunich notices that the CNC bports are pretty tall
they're around 7 feet
plus some if you ever want to replace the drawbar ;)
I think I have 7' of door and a lot more height inside
height is not a problem except for the door
the mills in the pics seem taller than that
they could be, to the top of the motor wire on top
(that = the 7' that swp mentioned)
ebay often has heights listed, and they tend to be about 7'
I should measure the door to make sure
for manual bports, people often turn the head upside down when moving
lowers the height and the CG
wouldn't surprise me if it's more like 8'
don't think you can do that on the CNCs
no, you can't
you can remove the spindle motor/housing though
but it's more of a pain that pivoting the head
does anyone remember if we changed/fixed the terrible tool table units thing?
g20 g43 h3 and g21 g43 h3 seem to give me the same position
but ... I don't remember changing it to do that
I think it's in "the currently used units"
or did you change it? hmmm
I know that's what the spec says, but did we fix/change it?
* cradek predicts that someone will tell me to UTSL
... as if I will be able to tell
I see a bunch of changes around the end of June last year, but all the comments are related to lathe tools and passing the extra data around
hmm. apparently Mozilla sometimes shuts down entirely when you click the little X in one window ...
this is the EMC dev channel
that was interesting
heh - yeah
I'm trying one more timewith rafa at the moment ...
jepler gave him detailed instructions last time he asked this - a few days ago
yeah, though there seems to be a problem - he said "phase drive", and the line he pasted was for step/dir
I think it does use the current units as the diameter
that's so busted
well I doubt jepler made that mistake
you can't switch units with comp on
so it's impossible to cut (around) an inch part with a metric tool
I also doubt jepler made that mistake ;)
you're both very brave
hmmm - where are those connections? are they in core_stepper or standard_pinout?
that connections to the parport are in stdpinout
I'm not sure if the sig is connected to the stepgen in pinput or core
ok - thanks
[02:39:30] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&diff=1&id=EMC_Fest_2007
to get it working, I made two entries for each tool, using different units
I have to remember to use different tool numbers based on whether I'm in g20/g21 mode
I say put the units in the tool file, and then make it work as expected
get rid of FMS (since nobody seems to know what it is), and put units in there instead ;)
I say always use the machine's units
no - what if I have a 3mm endmill and a 3/8 endmill?
you wouldn't - but if you did, surely you can do the math
it makes sense to default to machine units, but accept unit suffixes per tool
why wouldn't I have metric and imperial tools?
sorry I was being glib
ok - good
sorry - just had a somewhat taxing IRC experience :)
you have my sympathy
I wonder if it worked
no, he'll ask the same questions in a few more days
ok. I'll ignore him then
I think the current implementation, which tries to do what the spec says, is broken
I can agree with that
no no no
even if it succeeds in doing what the spec says
I mean it doesn't even successfully do what the spec says
cool, lathe tool offsets work (as long as I don't switch units)
I've got four tools set up on my qctp
you STILL owe us lathe pictures!
darn, I forgot to do the parting tool
HE GOT IT!!!!!!
hey - that's a good idea
going to bed before 3 AM
I need to try that some day
I'm thinking about trying that today :)
only 36 minutes of today left
I guess I'll get to bed then :)
my turn, goodnight all
(I'm only here for a bit)
cradek: nothing nice ;) wanted to ask your oppinion on something
I started looking at that task/interp/canon issue :)
is it still broken? I fixed some stuff related to that (for probing)
the problem is that task runs the interp for all the previous lines (before start line)
it definitely has to do that
that way canon gets updated with all the positions before
right, I agree
but when it starts running for real, canon has the wron endpoint
ok I understand
I'm not sure I know what the proper fix should be
actually I do .. but I don't want to go there ;)
how does task run canon, but have canon not issue the moves?
task runs interp
which calls the canon calls
then task calls a interp.clear()
which I bet clears the canon queue
which otherwise would end up in taks again, and then to motion
could it be fixed with an ignored/cleared STRAIGHT_TRAVERSE(position where the tool really is) right before the run-from line?
* alex_joni thinks
I'm still trying to digest the code in emctaskmain.cc
(to see where that would fit in..)
grep for programStartLine if you like..
cradek: back in 15 minutes
jepler: is there a simple way to make pluto_servo not load, if the device isn't there?
cradek: I'm not sure I know how to add that extra STRAIGHT_TRAVERSE
it should be in task.. but task only calls interp, not canon
I think you could just call it directly from task
task does make other canon calls, I think, like GET_POSITION
that was just an idea - don't forget, I don't have a clue whether that's the right answer
maybe I'm wrong :-)
I about as clueless as you :P
cradek: good question
cradek: when it doesn't load, does the 'communication-error' start incrementing?
(I think that's the pin name)
er, when it's not present, that is
if dia > 1.0: # XXX current_tool can have any units
r = dia / (2. * 25.4)
r = dia / 2.
* cradek cries
we've got to fix the tool table - it's crazy
* alex_joni cries about task
and by fix I mean "change in an incompatible way, contrary to the spec"
anyone want to find a new project to work on?
got anything with pink interfaces and flowers on the buttons?
I bet we could find something
cradek: try this: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/pluto-hwdetect.patch
(the top chunk is probably unneeded)
I get a kernel oops!
if the pluto is off
[5209807.900000] EIP: [<c01edb50>] vsnprintf+0x30/0x630 SS:ESP 0068:ce881a18
bufferlen in rtapi_print is plenty big enough...
wonder what I gone done wrong
I'm not spotting it...
looks like it needs to be rtapi_print_msg
void rtapi_print(const char *fmt, ...)
void rtapi_print_msg(int level, const char *fmt, ...)
I looked right over the "level"
if it works please check it in
yes, it works
cradek: the 2.6.17-smp works really nice here
11:12 < alex_joni> time make
11:13 < alex_joni> real 1m42.367s
11:13 < alex_joni> user 0m27.695s
11:13 < alex_joni> sys 1m10.719s
that's on a VM running 2.6.17-smp
jepler: do you know without looking where current position is in stat?
* alex_joni officially hates units
cradek: want to test a patch?
cradek: I think it works as it should now.. the only thing I'm concearned is if I should update the current position after each interpreted line, or only once before the skipping ends
alex_joni: seems like it works fine in all other cases
jepler: wanted to ask you somehting else though :)
did you get the email about the spanish translation?
I don't think we have one
ok, I'll tell him to start
jepler, cradek: that patch from above I did on the 2.1 branch
I merged it into trunk and it behaves completely differently
but it's too late now to start debugging it.. I'll look at it tomorrow or so