SWPadnos doesn't know if he's coming or going...
I do, but the computer doesn't
well, I'm now committed to building a new computer
(bought the first part)
heh - you said it on IRC, so you have to do it now ;)
I spent money, so I have to do it now
IRC means nothing!
you can do a pretty significant upgrade to the farm machine by replacing the CPU
the X2 chips are dirt cheap now
that won't speed up the disk, or give it more ram or....
I just got a 150G Raptor disk (10KRPM)
you can do a RAM upgrade at the same time, that's pretty cheap too ;)
next decision is single or dual socket mobo
I'm gonna either go 12xx or 22xx
you know my advice ;)
yeah, I was actually hoping to pick your brain on that topic
even if you get only one CPU now, you have a lot more headroom with the dual
farm upgrade: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103052
that will drop into a socket that had a sempron?
is it socket 754 or 939?
not sure, lemme try to figure it out
actually, if you run RT on that box, there's no point in getting an X2
unless you want to work on SMP RTAI
(which would be nice, considering the direction of the CPU market)
or is this the manual from an even older mobo...
462 is a pentium of some sort
can I use that to replace my 'model name: AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3300+' and get smp?
pentium something of some sort ,,,
model name : AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2000+ is what I have now
I'm not sure if the sempron 3300 was available in 754 or if they're all 939s
if you have a socket 939 MB, then yes, you should get a very nice boost with that CPU
hmmm. I thought you had a 64-bit chip in the farm machine
[01:09:40] <jmkasunich> http://www.soyousa.com/products/proddesc.php?id=304
<-- the mobo
ok, then you're close to the top end of that motherboard, and it isn't worth it to upgrade
oh, 462 - socket A
I should have known, that's what I'm typing on ;)
I had already reached that conclusion, hence the desire to build a new system
well, if the new system is intended to run RT, then you have a dilemma regarding CPU type and quantity
since SMP doesn't seem to be a priority
RT SMP (plus A64, what the heck ;) )
well, I'll probably be keeping this system as my RT/hardware playing box
the new one will be: farm server, web server, FPGA place/route machine, network backup machine, etc, etc
ok. the farm is already VMs, so the host doesn't really matter there
I haven't toyed much with processor affinity in VMWare (having multiple VMs use separate cores)
what happened to the sempron/A64 purchase you were making last fall? did that end up being this Athlon?
I never bought anything
oh, that explains it ;)
this computer is two years old this month
hm, I think mine's 754
[01:15:01] <jmkasunich> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813151046
heh. I'm still using a 6 year old PC for most work, and my laptop is the same age
am I being blind? it says "special combo deal", but doesn't say what its combo'ed with
Kingston 1GB 240-pin DDR2 SDRAM
I thought you used that fancy new dual-head machine?
it's not my day-to-day machine, due to me waffling on product licenses and such
and only $20 off, nothing to get terribly excited about
what are product licenses?
they're things that people sometimes have to put up with and pay large amounts of money for, in the non-Linux world ;)
dual socket mobos aren't cheap - nothing under $250
[01:17:42] <cradek> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135170
my board ($42)
thats about what I paid for mine when I got it
I think it was a combo deal, mobo and CPU for about $100
this time around I want to get something that isn't already a couple years behind the leading edge, maybe I'll stay happy with it longer
I don't want to be as leading edge as SWP tho ;-)
at least you use the things you buy ...
no, you can't have it ;)
well, there are 9 dual socket mobos in the 200-300 price range...
2 ASUS, 2 Gigabyte, and 5 Tyan
under "server motherboards"?
no dual socket opteron boards under regular
only one, and ASUS
[01:23:45] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131146
I think thats socket 1207FX, not 1207
made for some fancy gamer targeted Athlon FX thing
yes. sadly, I don't know enough about the new sockets to know the difference
not sure opterons would work in there, and too much $ anyway
only 2 chipsets...
NForce 590 or 680, it seems
NVIDIA nForce Pro 3600, and Serverworks HT1000
hmmm. back to the classroom for me ;)
[01:26:51] <jmkasunich> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010200302+4018+1071323148&Subcategory=302&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=
clicking on the boxes in the left sidebar tells a lot
given those manufacturers, I'd choose Tyan, then Asus a far second, and Gigabyte a distant third
Hmm, CEB form factor - thats a new one for me
and then there were 5 ;-)
actually, then there were 3
two are open box units that duplicate the others
heh. no room for expansion slots on those. the CPU sockets (and 8x240 pin DIMMS) are huge
right. I usually do power search and check OEM and Retail
they have either 3 or 4 PCI
jmkasunich: I left in and out pins in X mode so you could drive that line low from 'inside' or 'outside'
that seems confusing to me (and to anybody who doesn't really know about open collector)
I suppose we could have "OC" mode....
for those in the know
but if they don't understand it's OC, they won't get it to work anyway
cause they won't add pullups?
well depending what they drive it with I guess.
I think one way it might be useful would be for an estop loopback that uses only one pin
haven't thought that through very well though
feel free to change it if you want - maddash was rather confused by the whole thing (mostly because X mode is completey undocumented), thats why I made the change
well it's otherworldly, you made it less so I guess
I wasn't using the OC that way anyway
wow I sure killed your conversation...
heh - this is the EMC development channel, don'tcha know
well I decided I don't need a faster computer.
there's not much you can do with a socket 754 - none of the available upgrades are worth it
except possibly for more RAM
I'd like a fast smp machine to try rtai again, but it's easy not to want to do that
I didn't see any dual-core 754 chips anyway, so you're into motherboard and memory-land anyway
in addition to CPU(s)
still < $500 for a nice upgrade I suppose
depends on the amount of memory and CPU speed ...
I'm not sure how emc will work out as processors become more varied
we may be on the tail end of providing one kernel that runs nicely on most things
I've been thinking about that. I think SMP will be necessary/desirable in the next major release
not because we need it, but just so people can use all of the CPU they get with relatively modern machines
the rtai setup I was trying to get to work tied realtime tasks to one processor - if we do that, they won't see much benefit except when running emc
well, unless they have more than 2 I guess
user apps still get spread across both (all) cores though
oh is that right?
it's just that the RTAI apps should be on one only
I think so, but I'm not poisitive
I don't think RTAI prevents other tasks from using a CPU, but you can bind RT tasks to one or another
If you bot witd isolcpus no linux task will be on the isolated cpu, just =
Pretty sure of that as it is the way to get single digit us latency
[03:47:06] <cradek> https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2006-February/014376.html
so I think it is how I remember
ah, with isolated CPUs ...
interesting. so you can do that if you want. I wonder if the isoalted CPUs become non-isolated when you unload rtai_hal
that would sure be nice
indeed it would
cradek: would you like a dual P3-600 box?
free if you are willing to work on smp rtai :-)
I think it even has ubuntu on it, don't recall what version tho
isolated CPUs is only one option though, isn't it? (ie, you can still use RTAI/SMP like normal SMP Linux, but with higher latencies than isolated would give)
jmkasunich: not sure, I have a dual PII-300 already, but both are pretty unsuitable for building a bunch of kernels
I have a pair of Opteron 244's if anyone wants them
you'll just need a dual 940 board to hold them
SWPadnos: yes I think there are lots of options
just need a mobo, and ram, and a PS, and a case, and. and
maybe I'll bring the 600x2 to the workshop
SWPadnos: (I couldn't get any to boot)
see if I can sneak it into your car the last day
jmkasunich: maybe one of us will feel like working on smp there
well, I haven't done any RTAI patching in a long time, but I'll give it a whirl when I get back from Las Vegas
I actually have two very different dual P3-600s
one is a 3.5" tall but very deep rackmount
the other is a tower
rackmount == shelf :)
3.5 x 19 x 27 or something like that
I should try again, but do the rtai/smp hacking separately from the dpkg hacking
it's frustrating to try to do both together
one is bad enough
I started to go through the RTAISteps page, but never finished
that doesn't even talk about dpgk
another issue/headache, as you said
just building for one machine isn't very hard (assuming it boots when you're done)
[03:59:22] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UbuntuBreezyPackages
we can certainly fiddle with my Opteron machine at Fest, and I may upgrade the A64 to dualcore as well
here are my very old breezy notes
hmmm. I think it's bedtime ;)
cool, it would be nice if you would bring some horsepower
I'll do that, assuming the van seems to work well enough
and jmk would have that machine for testing
I'll have only a PII or PIII
or maybe even just my laptop, not sure yet.
I think we may use my (smaller) car this year
not the big turbine case?
that huge box I had last time is a PIII
the other huge box currently running my mill is a PII
cradek: does the fact that my dual cpu boxes are scsi make things easier or harder?
not if they have IDE controllers as well ...
I have no problem with scsi, all my old server class junk is scsi
the tower does, the 3.5" one nope
I have (many) more spare scsi drives than ide
scsi cdroms are a little rare I guess
that's the only possible problem
but I could find some if you/we/I need them
the cdrom is ide
there are 2x9G scsi disks, IDE cdrom, floppy
if the CDROM is IDE< then IDE HDs should be possible as well (unless it's an IDE plug-in card)
only 256M of ram tho, and its rambus, so we aren't gonna just toss more in
its mobo ide
there are two connectors, one cable, one device
so adding more would be easy
ok, that must not be the 3.5" machine then :)
that one has a two drive hotplug cage, with 2x18G drives
no IDE, and really really lame video
(1M video ram, maybe 2)
definitely a server, not a game box
the tower is more balanced, it was an engineering workstation
well, it's now really bedtime for me. good night guys
did we ever figure out a consistent way to have _u32 and friends as types?
IIRC, we have __u32 in kernel space, but not in sim, and maybe nothing in user space?
there's a C99 header file that defines those - lemme find the name of it
./hal/hal.h:typedef volatile u32 hal_u32_t;
./rtapi/rtapi_types.h:typedef u32 __u32 __attribute((deprecated));
./rtapi/rtapi_types.h:typedef uint32_t u32;
looks like u32 is now the preferred version, and is available anywhere rtapi.h is included
we can take that out though, I'm pretty sure there's a standard header that gives it to us
even in kernel space?
hmmm. there may need to be some of those machinations for kernel space
stdint.h might be that header
could be. I'm trying to remember what class told me about that, rather than searching some include directory for it ;)
it includes stdint.h and defines u32 as uint32_t for sim and user space
and includes asm/types.h in kernel space
actually, it should be able to include linux/types.h, for kernel or userspace
then use the __u32 versions in userspace or uint32_t in kernel code
according to this: http://lwn.net/Kernel/LDD2/ch10.lwn
the whole point of rtapi_types.h is to have a type that can be used in either space interchangably
right, but rtapi_types can include only linux/types.h, then typedef the HAL_* types from that one header (according to that article)
or maybe I'm misunderstanding the article. I'm multitasking a bit here ;)
I have no issue with how rtapi_types implements the types really, I just want to know A) what is the preferred fixed size type, and B) what do I need to include to get it
the answer is A) u32 and B) rtapi_types.h
I also need 8 and 16, and they aren't in rtapi_types.h (yet)
they were removed, actually
I wonder why?
when the shorter HAL ints were taken out
"too many HAL types" ...
are you sure... cvs shows rtapi_types.h at version 1.1
they were never in there
the hal_u8 types were removed, but not plain old u8
sorry - I'm trying to print the Sonja McFarlane paper for my mother, and the laser printer decided that it can't detect paper in the tray
which is a PITA when you're trying to print the back side of a 164 page paper
beep beep beep - press go button - one page prints - beep beep beep ...
that requires concentration, if you don't want page 120 on the back of 115 - I'll leave you alone ;-)
much slower than 17 PPM that way
and you never know when it'll reprint the last page (if it detects an error), or decide it was OK and go on to the next one ...
hmm, it seems like we should really be using __u32, not u32
* __xx is ok: it doesn't pollute the POSIX namespace. Use these in the
* header files exported to user space
thats regarding __xx
* These aren't exported outside the kernel to avoid name space clashes
thats regarding xx
seems like we should standardize on the __xx ones, for both kernel and user
I managed to break something:
make: Failed to remake makefile `Makefile'.
make: Failed to remake makefile `Makefile'.
make: Entering directory `/home/jmkasunich/emcdev/emc2head/src'
there was a thing jepler said earlier about how to debug that
don't do that!
[20:28:41] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FailedToRemakeMakefile
yay, glad it was a cache-hit
ah, so make clean fixes it
and thats why the farm didn't barf - its been 12 hours since the last commit, so the farm did a complete build (with make clean)