#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-01-13

[21:39:38] <alex_joni> jepler: one small question
[21:39:47] <jepler> yes?
[21:39:52] <alex_joni> what happens to the pluto driver if there is no python available?
[21:40:08] <jepler> probably the build is broken
[21:40:13] <jepler> but look at me not caring <---
[21:40:18] <alex_joni> :P
[21:40:29] <jepler> python is part of the base system everywhere we care about
[21:41:13] <jepler> (e.g., debian)
[21:41:24] <alex_joni> oh, ok
[21:41:39] <alex_joni> then look at me not caring <--- :O
[21:41:41] <alex_joni> :P
[21:42:40] <awallin> jepler: if pyvcp is in 2.1, AXIS in 2.1 should probably support it? is that doable?
[21:43:22] <jepler> awallin: yes, and it will
[21:43:32] <jepler> in fact I think that change has already been back-ported in this recent flurry of activity
[21:43:49] <alex_joni> it already does
[21:43:56] <alex_joni> awallin: you're the only one behind :P
[21:44:14] <awallin> ok
[21:56:02] <jepler> maybe I'm wrong about it being a part of base debian, but on this bdi4 machine, python2.3 is depended on by the packages bdi-branding and kdebase which might as well be "base"
[22:01:39] <rayh> The bdi-branding thing is a Paul/rayh thing for custom distros for Sherline and Smithy.
[22:02:28] <SWPadnos> hey Ray - do you have any experience with AMC servo amps?
[22:02:37] <SWPadnos> (Advanced Motion Controls)
[22:03:24] <alex_joni> rayh: there are different brandings for sherline and smithy afaik
[22:03:33] <alex_joni> the bdi-branding is the generic BDI one
[22:03:53] <rayh> you may be right, alex
[22:04:03] <alex_joni> I may be wrong :)
[22:04:16] <rayh> I've see a couple in machines, SWPadnos but I've never worked with them.
[22:04:31] <rayh> I have some brushless around someplace.
[22:04:40] <alex_joni> BLDC?
[22:04:59] <SWPadnos> I'm looking at brush servo amps
[22:05:29] <rayh> My understanding is that AMC makes good devices.
[22:05:34] <alex_joni> I think a G320 might be a good choice (if stripped of the step/dir stuff)
[22:05:41] <SWPadnos> I'm kind of curious as to whether I can get better finishes with analog amps vs. step-to-servo stuff like the Geckos
[22:05:59] <SWPadnos> I have 3 G320s now, and could do the mod Mariss suggested (to you, if I recall :) )
[22:06:00] <alex_joni> I suspect so
[22:06:07] <alex_joni> yeah to me..
[22:06:09] <rayh> You can certainly increase the resolution/accuracy.
[22:06:20] <alex_joni> the G340 has the biggest issue that it's only PID
[22:06:27] <alex_joni> not PID FF0 FF1 FF2
[22:06:34] <SWPadnos> I was thinking that. I have 40000 steps/inch on my mill
[22:06:54] <SWPadnos> I'm curious about the continuous-time control of an analog amp
[22:07:16] <rayh> continuous-time control??
[22:07:32] <SWPadnos> my motors have tachs on them, so I can do true analog amp control, and discrete position monitoring with the encoders
[22:07:51] <SWPadnos> well, an amplifier runs in continuous time, it doesn't need an encoder pulse to be "active"
[22:08:07] <rayh> That is the nicest way to run. You will get the best finish using velocity commands rather than torque.
[22:08:24] <SWPadnos> ok - good to know :)
[22:08:34] <SWPadnos> that was another point for research :)
[22:08:45] <rayh> with a tach you can command very low velocities.
[22:08:58] <rayh> 0.001 volt will produce a taper.
[22:09:11] <SWPadnos> yeah. I suspect that'll be limited by the 5i20 (unless I add a good A/D on an SPI port)
[22:09:28] <rayh> Where a step servo like 320 will produce a staircase.
[22:09:34] <SWPadnos> right. I've worked on power supplies that need to ramp voltages over hours, and 10-bit control isn't too impressive to those guys
[22:10:08] <alex_joni> rayh: mariss suggested a mod to the G320/340 to make it purely analog
[22:10:21] <rayh> He did?
[22:10:25] <SWPadnos> lft pin 2 of some chip, and connect that to the analog output
[22:10:41] <SWPadnos> 0V = full reverse, 2.5V = stop, 5V = full fwd
[22:10:46] <SWPadnos> or some such :)
[22:11:19] <SWPadnos> but it still doesn't take analog feedback, so it isn't quite right
[22:11:19] <rayh> Ah. There were some inexpensive cards that worked like that.
[22:11:49] <SWPadnos> it just becomes a torque amp, I think (I think the input was a current, but don't remember)
[22:12:01] <SWPadnos> err - the input controls the current
[22:12:12] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah, and encoder feedback is not taken into account either
[22:12:26] <SWPadnos> right - only in EMC (same as an analog amp)
[22:12:51] <rayh> If I remember the old GE circuit it just used an analog comparitor betwen command and tach.
[22:12:53] <alex_joni> so the drive will be really stupid :)
[22:12:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:13:10] <alex_joni> no PID, not feedback, no nothing :)
[22:13:15] <SWPadnos> I guess I'll have a look when my GE uSTOR comes in :)
[22:13:37] <rayh> You got a U-stor?
[22:13:44] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: did mesa say anything about the new 5i20 ?
[22:13:47] <SWPadnos> I will, when the HNC comes in
[22:13:59] <rayh> Ah a 550 control?
[22:14:00] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, not much, except for talking about ethernet
[22:14:07] <SWPadnos> err - I dunno :)
[22:14:13] <SWPadnos> it's big and blue though
[22:14:17] <SWPadnos> or maybe it was gray
[22:14:24] <alex_joni> how do you know?
[22:14:30] <SWPadnos> know what?
[22:14:43] <rayh> Matts got a spare if you need parts
[22:15:00] <SWPadnos> heh - I don't want to move the one I'm buying 8 miles, let alone 500 for a spare ;)
[22:15:19] <SWPadnos> since I plan to rip out all the electronics and stick an EMC machine in there anyway
[22:15:24] <rayh> I've got several spare GE drives that would match it.
[22:15:38] <SWPadnos> those are basically just analog servo amps, right?
[22:15:45] <rayh> yep.
[22:15:46] <SWPadnos> or did that unit use PWM or something?
[22:15:48] <SWPadnos> cool
[22:16:00] <rayh> There is a goofy stepper drive that controls the spindle speed.
[22:16:08] <SWPadnos> I wonder if those would work on my Baldor motors on the Bridgeport
[22:16:12] <SWPadnos> hmm
[22:16:31] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure if the spindle on this lathe is DC or AC
[22:16:41] <SWPadnos> probably DC, from our past conversations
[22:16:47] <rayh> AC with two belts and two clutches.
[22:16:52] <rayh> would be my bet.
[22:17:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm. would that require a manual operation to change speed ranges?
[22:17:16] <SWPadnos> err - nevermind
[22:17:23] <rayh> There is a center idler with a leadscrew to change speed.
[22:17:48] <rayh> and then low or high speed clutch.
[22:19:41] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I should ask them forthe manuals when I get the machine
[22:20:34] <SWPadnos> it's funny. moving a big machine 10 miles has almost the same complexity as moving one 1000 miles
[22:20:43] <SWPadnos> it's the last 20 feet that make it complex
[22:20:53] <alex_joni> how heavy?
[22:20:58] <SWPadnos> ~3000 pounds
[22:21:04] <SWPadnos> maybe more with the controller
[22:21:06] <alex_joni> how big?
[22:21:12] <SWPadnos> one sec
[22:21:40] <alex_joni> http://www.woodstone-corp.com/images/ms_pallet_jack_lg.jpg
[22:21:51] <alex_joni> should work for 1mile /day
[22:21:58] <alex_joni> maybe 3 if you're fit
[22:22:45] <SWPadnos> the one I linked to yesterday: http://cgi.ebay.com/HARDINGE-HNC-CNC-PRODUCTION-LATHE-S-Up-to-seven-avbl_W0QQitemZ200066336883QQihZ010QQcategoryZ97230QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[22:22:46] <rayh> You can move these things with pipe for rollers.
[22:23:00] <SWPadnos> it's the 3-foot drop from the truck that's hard ;)
[22:23:14] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: who said anything about a truck?
[22:23:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:23:22] <rayh> don't get your toes under it.
[22:23:31] <SWPadnos> I won't get my anything under it
[22:23:38] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: there are trucks with a small crane in the back
[22:23:46] <SWPadnos> yeah, but I don't have one
[22:24:00] <SWPadnos> maybe I can call one of my national guard buddies and borrow a HEMTT
[22:24:10] <rayh> remember those pictures of folk building the pyramids
[22:24:11] <SWPadnos> oh wait, I don't have any national guard buddies any more ;)
[22:24:25] <SWPadnos> yeah, but there were like a million of them, and only one of me
[22:24:28] <alex_joni> or a long angled plane
[22:24:46] <SWPadnos> the angle is the wrong way - there's a few hundred foot change in elevation between me and the machine
[22:26:03] <SWPadnos> I'm thinking of two tow trucks. One flatbed and one with a boom (to lift it off)
[22:26:09] <SWPadnos> they have a forklift for loading
[22:26:38] <SWPadnos> it may work with just a flatbed, since they have a winch to control the slide (if they tilt the bed)
[22:26:40] <rayh> There are car haulers where the bed slides back and down to the ground.
[22:27:06] <SWPadnos> yep - one of those. I'm not sure what kind of base they'll have it on. I can probably ask for a 6x6 pallet
[22:27:47] <rayh> 4x4 should be enough, angle the ends to make a skid.
[22:28:32] <SWPadnos> that could work
[22:28:48] <SWPadnos> hmmm - do you know the height of the uSTOR? I think it was taller than I am
[22:29:13] <rayh> I've even known guys who will build a roadbed with 2x6 and 2x4 on edge for the sides.
[22:29:14] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: I just (yesterday) moved a 13" south bend
[22:29:30] <jmkasunich> we hired a guy with the tiltbed car hauler and they made short work of it
[22:29:32] <rayh> spread grease in the trough and you can slide them by hand.
[22:29:36] <SWPadnos> I overbuild when I don't know what I'm doing ;)
[22:29:53] <SWPadnos> the 13" is about 500-800 pounds, right (depending on the base)
[22:30:01] <jmkasunich> 1600
[22:30:15] <jmkasunich> everything is cast except the electrical box ;-)
[22:30:26] <SWPadnos> oh - right. I was thinking my friend's 9x36 was a bigger one
[22:30:36] <jmkasunich> they just tilted the bed, and winched it right up
[22:30:53] <jmkasunich> I had it mounted to 4x6 skids with 1/2" lagscrews
[22:30:54] <SWPadnos> yep. and down - that's teh end I'm concerned about
[22:31:08] <jmkasunich> same thing, tilt the bed and winch it down
[22:31:14] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:31:28] <jmkasunich> we were unloading onto a dock, and that made it harder - no gravity to help
[22:31:31] <SWPadnos> I wonder if it makes sense to make two trips - one for the lathe and one for the controller
[22:31:38] <SWPadnos> eek
[22:31:45] <SWPadnos> then you can use a come-along to pull it off the truck
[22:32:12] <jmkasunich> no - prybar to get it up a bit, 1" round bar underneath, roll to back of truck
[22:32:34] <SWPadnos> that works
[22:32:46] <jmkasunich> then forklift the back end onto a low wheeled platform that we had for moving heavy stuff
[22:33:03] <jmkasunich> push it some more, until we could lift the other end onto another platform
[22:33:12] <jmkasunich> then roll 'er away
[22:33:16] <SWPadnos> hmmm - gotta run - the wife is starving (and is pushing me to go out to dinnner, rather than to cook forr her :) )
[22:33:25] <jmkasunich> sounds like a plan
[22:33:25] <SWPadnos> thanks for the info and suggestions guys
[22:33:29] <jmkasunich> I need to finish this wiring
[22:33:38] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: btw, it looks very nice
[22:34:04] <jmkasunich> what does?
[22:34:16] <alex_joni> wiring
[22:34:19] <alex_joni> on your blog
[22:34:22] <jmkasunich> oh
[22:34:34] <jmkasunich> the wiring today is an outlet in the kitchen ;-)
[22:35:17] <alex_joni> half the fun I bet
[22:36:16] <rayh> catch you guys later.
[23:52:09] <alex_joni> jepler: is this all for 'net' ? http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c.diff?r1=1.100;r2=1.101