Back
[00:00:09] <jmkasunich> dinnertime
[00:22:59] <cradek> I'm glad that mystery is solved
[00:36:40] <alindeman> [Global Notice] Hi all! This morning (6:00-7:00AM UTC), we will be restarting a major portion of the freenode IRC network. More information regarding these updates is online here:
http://freenode.net/news.shtml Further questions can be directed to staff@freenode.net or an on-duty staffer in /stats p
[00:37:27] <SWPadnos> yes indeed - good catch, jmkasunich
[01:15:54] <jmkasunich> the discussion between you and jeff is what made me suspect some precision loss somewhere
[01:16:11] <SWPadnos> we suspected it as well, but didn't notice the cause
[01:16:59] <SWPadnos> are you still subscribed to the Geckodrive yahoo group?
[01:17:26] <jmkasunich> "subscribed" yes, but I never had mail delivery, I read it on line
[01:17:30] <jmkasunich> and I haven't been lately
[01:18:07] <SWPadnos> ok. somebody posted a question like "how can I get ethernet working right?, and I responded that I was considering building an ARM board to replace the rabbit
[01:18:13] <SWPadnos> interesting discussion ensued :)
[01:19:18] <SWPadnos> the original subject is "GeckoMotion Over Ethernet", from 12/1
[01:23:05] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich reads
[01:26:34] <SWPadnos> the main reason I was thinking about my own processor board is because there's no Linux devkit for the Rabbit (that and it's $300 or more)
[01:34:10] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:34:20] <jmkasunich> seems Mariss got a little defensive
[01:34:25] <SWPadnos> a little :)
[01:34:29] <jmkasunich> I didn't read anybody as really bashing his choice
[01:34:31] <SWPadnos> he was being attacked from several sides though
[01:34:38] <SWPadnos> Les Newell
[01:35:06] <jmkasunich> yeah. I guess he was rather blunt
[01:35:21] <SWPadnos> a bit ;)
[01:35:40] <SWPadnos> I thought the 5ms block processing time was excessive
[01:35:54] <SWPadnos> certainly for HSM, probably not for hobby machines
[01:35:57] <jmkasunich> lack of 32 bit math operations is the real issue
[01:36:02] <SWPadnos> it's a big one
[01:36:09] <SWPadnos> just takes more cycles
[01:36:26] <jmkasunich> I used to like Z-80s, but then I started using 16 bit machines
[01:36:31] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:36:42] <jmkasunich> I liked them, until I started using 32 bit machines
[01:36:45] <jmkasunich> there is no going back
[01:37:00] <jmkasunich> unless the task is truly rudimentary
[01:37:13] <SWPadnos> I never really liked the Z80 much - it was pretty fast for the time, but cycle counting was such a PITA
[01:37:14] <SWPadnos> yep
[01:37:48] <SWPadnos> it's pretty obvious how they got to the X86 from the Z80, when you look at all the special-purpose uses of the "general purpose" registers
[01:38:08] <SWPadnos> and the lack of general-purpose registers :)
[01:38:16] <jmkasunich> you mean to the X86 form the 8080/8085
[01:38:24] <jmkasunich> from
[01:38:38] <SWPadnos> Z80 -> 8080/8085 -> 8088/8086 -> x86
[01:38:56] <jmkasunich> not if I recall it correctly
[01:39:03] <cradek> z80 is post-8080
[01:39:05] <jmkasunich> 8080/8085 were first (intel)
[01:39:06] <SWPadnos> hmmm - that's the history I've seen
[01:39:12] <jmkasunich> z-80 was zilog's improvement on it
[01:39:22] <SWPadnos> oh - was the Z80 Zilog's "new and improved" 8080?
[01:39:22] <SWPadnos> ah
[01:39:25] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:39:37] <SWPadnos> well, you can see the common roots then ;)
[01:39:41] <jmkasunich> right
[01:40:19] <SWPadnos> crap - I'm going to need to reboot soon. windows explorer is fubared
[01:40:52] <cradek> (insert smartass comment here)
[01:40:55] <SWPadnos> no need
[01:41:10] <SWPadnos> I'm sure Vista is better though
[01:41:17] <SWPadnos> (how was that?)
[01:41:26] <cradek> not bad for a first try
[01:41:36] <SWPadnos> I suppose it would give me a chance to clean part of my desk or something
[01:41:41] <SWPadnos> or set up my server
[01:41:50] <cradek> if anyone wondered, cat paws do run trackpads
[01:42:08] <SWPadnos> oh good - they sometimes run mice as well
[01:42:37] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[01:42:52] <jmkasunich> our remaining cat is too lazy to get up on the bench
[01:43:07] <jmkasunich> or table, or bed, or anything else more than 12" off the floor
[01:43:14] <SWPadnos> hmmm - has he lost weight?
[01:43:26] <jmkasunich> not really
[01:43:26] <cradek> well how often do you jump on things twice your height?
[01:43:33] <jmkasunich> I'm not a cat
[01:44:23] <SWPadnos> ok - our cat isn't expected to live beyond a week or two - one of the symptoms he has is general weakness
[01:44:27] <SWPadnos> (we decided not to put him to sleep)
[01:44:47] <SWPadnos> it's a symptom of renal failure, which is common in older cats
[01:45:02] <jmkasunich> yeah, we've been there
[01:45:26] <SWPadnos> yep - most cat people probably have
[01:46:16] <jmkasunich> our cat's pisser works just fine
[01:46:38] <jmkasunich> he has an annoying habit if getting all four feet in the litterbox, then hanging his ass over the edge and peeing on the floor
[01:46:56] <SWPadnos> at least he's (sort of) trying ;)
[01:47:02] <SWPadnos> "but I was in the box" ...
[01:47:20] <jmkasunich> he's not the sharpest pencil in the drawer, but he's sweet
[01:47:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:47:56] <SWPadnos> our guy has never been too cat-like. he's been more or less a vegetarian for the last several years
[01:48:09] <SWPadnos> he also manages to get stuck to the carpet from time to time
[01:48:17] <SWPadnos> (claws, not astatic)
[01:48:18] <jmkasunich> thats bizarre (the veg part)
[01:48:18] <SWPadnos> static
[01:48:29] <cradek> what does he eat?
[01:48:36] <SWPadnos> yeh - he likes the smell of meat / cheese, but never actually eats it
[01:48:38] <jmkasunich> obligate carnivore and all that
[01:48:43] <SWPadnos> he eats catfood, whatever that is
[01:48:57] <jmkasunich> grain and meat byproducts probably
[01:49:08] <SWPadnos> he'll eat tuna / beef / chicken catfood, but not cooked or raw "human food"
[01:49:21] <jmkasunich> well, that just shows he's a smart cat
[01:49:25] <SWPadnos> but he does eat things like peas and string beans ...
[01:49:28] <jmkasunich> human food isn't good for felines
[01:49:45] <SWPadnos> ham, beef, chicken, fish, cheese, milk - those aren't bad for a cat
[01:49:55] <SWPadnos> well, milk can cause the runs
[01:50:20] <jmkasunich> its not a complete diet tho, unless you include some organ meats, etc
[01:50:48] <jmkasunich> "not good for" is probably an exaggeration
[01:51:27] <SWPadnos> sure - not complete enough
[01:51:47] <SWPadnos> but all other cats I've known would yell "Look, Elvis!" and then snatch food off your plate
[01:51:56] <SWPadnos> unless they just take the food instead
[01:51:56] <jmkasunich> heh
[01:52:06] <SWPadnos> and they could all detect a gram of protein from roughly a mile
[01:55:42] <cradek> hi petev
[01:55:45] <petev> hi
[01:55:48] <SWPadnos> hey pete - long time no see
[01:55:55] <petev> I just made some mods to the motenc dirver
[01:56:03] <petev> but what is BWidget?
[01:56:08] <jmkasunich> hi pete
[01:56:10] <petev> hi
[01:56:15] <jmkasunich> its a tcl/TK thing
[01:56:23] <petev> what package is it in?
[01:56:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:56:30] <jmkasunich> bwidget?
[01:56:33] <petev> yes
[01:56:41] <cradek> ii bwidget 1.7.0-1 A set of extension widgets for Tcl/Tk
[01:56:43] <SWPadnos> it's a tcl/tk UI widget set
[01:56:52] <petev> ok, let me apt-get
[01:57:11] <SWPadnos> bwidget
[01:57:18] <jmkasunich> "bwidget?" means "I think the package is bwidget" ;-)
[01:57:25] <SWPadnos> isn't that one of the dependencies of emc2-dev?
[01:57:47] <jmkasunich> we use the tree widget from it for the config picker that opens when you start EMC2
[01:57:49] <petev> I'm still on an old debian box
[01:57:55] <SWPadnos> ah
[01:57:58] <petev> I'll try emc2-dev
[01:58:01] <jmkasunich> and its also used by halshow and maybe a few other things
[01:58:27] <SWPadnos> you may not be able to isntall that on a non-ubuntu system, though I'm not sure what all the dependencies are
[01:58:27] <petev> does anyone have a motenc setup in testable condition?
[01:58:38] <SWPadnos> I think none of us has a motenc setup at all
[01:58:44] <SWPadnos> except Ray probably
[01:59:02] <petev> what location is emc2-dev package at?
[01:59:03] <jmkasunich> theres the one in Galesburg ;-)
[01:59:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:59:14] <cradek> I think bwidget gives the tree widget
[01:59:17] <jmkasunich> but thats a bit inconvenient
[01:59:19] <SWPadnos> I guess that's testable ;)
[01:59:22] <jmkasunich> cradek: yes
[01:59:37] <petev> I need to update my apt-sources
[01:59:41] <petev> what do I need?
[01:59:51] <cradek> deb
http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/ dapper emc2
[01:59:51] <cradek> deb-src
http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/ dapper emc2
[02:00:00] <SWPadnos> but it's not dapper so ...
[02:00:06] <cradek> yeah
[02:00:06] <SWPadnos> or breezy ...
[02:00:10] <jmkasunich> cradek: will that work on a plain debian box?
[02:00:25] <cradek> I don't know
[02:00:45] <cradek> doubt it will break anything, but all the deps might not match what's available
[02:01:09] <SWPadnos> can you check the emc2-dev dependencies - I don't think emc2 is one of them, and the other packages are all dev stuff
[02:01:18] <SWPadnos> (like gcc and the like)
[02:01:43] <petev> my apt-get couldn't even find emc2-dev with the sources I had
[02:01:45] <cradek> are you talking to me?
[02:02:01] <SWPadnos> err - yes, I think I was ;)
[02:02:12] <SWPadnos> no - the emc2 repository is where emc2-dev is found
[02:02:24] <SWPadnos> cradek, yes, I was talking to you
[02:02:31] <petev> hmm, says needs gcc-4.0
[02:02:36] <SWPadnos> (just so I'm not confusing everyone)
[02:02:51] <petev> is that really a requirement now?
[02:02:51] <cradek> SWPadnos: I don't understand what you mean then
[02:03:07] <cradek> petev: no, you can use any compiler
[02:03:14] <jmkasunich> petev: do you have a RT kernel, or are you using the non-rt simulator?
[02:03:14] <SWPadnos> just wondering if emc2-dev includes only development tools, or if it would also pull in emc2 and the RT kernel, etc.
[02:03:17] <cradek> petev: you should use whatever you built realtime/kernel with
[02:03:26] <jmkasunich> if you are building for RT, you need to use the kernel compiler
[02:03:31] <jmkasunich> (what he said)
[02:03:33] <petev> emc2-dev won't install without gcc-4.0
[02:03:36] <cradek> SWPadnos: are you talking about install/run dep, or build-dep?
[02:03:44] <SWPadnos> then don't use emc2-dev
[02:03:48] <cradek> petev: you're going to have to wing it
[02:03:50] <petev> ok, let me just try and install bwidget
[02:03:52] <SWPadnos> cradek, no, there's a package called emc2-dev
[02:04:04] <SWPadnos> it depends on a lot of build tools
[02:04:09] <cradek> ok...
[02:04:21] <SWPadnos> didn't someboduy like you make the package?
[02:04:43] <cradek> I know what it is - I don't know what you want me to do to it
[02:05:10] <SWPadnos> oh - I just can't look at the list of dependencies right now - that's all I was wondering about
[02:05:59] <cradek> Depends: g++, gcc-4.0, linux-headers-2.6.15-magma
[02:06:38] <jmkasunich> cradek: do g++ and gcc versions track?
[02:06:54] <cradek> Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 4.0.0),linux-headers-2.6.15-magma,g++,gcc-4.0,make,libc6-dev,tcl8.4-dev,tk8.4-dev,libgtk1.2-dev,pciutils-dev
[02:06:55] <jmkasunich> (IOW, should it depend on g++4.0, instead of just g++_
[02:06:57] <petev> man cradek, your going to make me have to install an ubuntu system
[02:07:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:07:13] <SWPadnos> if your PC can handle it, it's not a bad thing
[02:07:30] <SWPadnos> however, if you have a nicely tuned system, then any changes are a bad thing ;)
[02:07:34] <jmkasunich> but we should _not_ be forcing people to discard perfectly functional debian systesm
[02:07:40] <petev> yeah, but it's all nice and pretty now with my touch screen drivers and all
[02:07:50] <jmkasunich> petev: do you have a RT kernel in that system?
[02:07:53] <SWPadnos> what version of X?
[02:07:54] <petev> yes
[02:08:07] <petev> I installed bwidget and so far so good
[02:08:17] <petev> building a completely new tree
[02:08:27] <jmkasunich> so the part about "linux-headers-2.6.15-magma" is wrong anyway - you want the headers that go with your kernel
[02:08:39] <cradek> yeah
[02:08:49] <SWPadnos> emc2-dev is a non-issue. I thought it might help, but it won't
[02:08:52] <cradek> you don't really want that repository - it's named "dapper" for a reason
[02:14:06] <petev> is it a big deal for the encoder interface to have more than what canocical calls for?
[02:14:20] <jmkasunich> what do you have in mind?
[02:14:28] <SWPadnos> I think the canon is a minimum, not a maximum
[02:14:33] <petev> just some stuff that was already there
[02:14:38] <petev> like the count reset pin
[02:14:53] <jmkasunich> I would probably agree, but I hope for some consistency
[02:15:09] <SWPadnos> "minimum subset"
[02:15:20] <jmkasunich> reset is a "reset now" thing? (as opposed to index, which is a "reset when you see the index")
[02:15:26] <petev> yes
[02:15:53] <jmkasunich> I have no problem with a reset pin
[02:16:14] <petev> ok, just commited
[02:16:15] <jmkasunich> in fact, someday (version 2.2 maybe) I'd like to revise the canoncial;
[02:16:17] <petev> will need testing
[02:16:49] <cradek> cool
[02:16:53] <cradek> mac will like that
[02:17:02] <jmkasunich> instead of "index-enable", have two: "reset-enable" and "capture-enable", and have "capture-counts" and "capture-position" pins as well
[02:17:14] <petev> yes, that would be nice
[02:17:20] <jmkasunich> both of those enables would work like the existing one, as far as the handshake goes
[02:17:46] <jmkasunich> (set true externally, when the index arrives the desired action happens and the pin is set false)
[03:09:45] <cradek> I hate to ask this...
[03:10:15] <cradek> if I command S500 and then S-500, is a properly configured machine going to do a sane thing (reverse without destroying anything)?
[03:10:34] <jmkasunich> keyword "properly configured"
[03:10:36] <jmkasunich> answer yes
[03:10:44] <cradek> ok good :-)
[03:10:49] <cradek> I thought that was the answer
[03:10:50] <jmkasunich> because the configurator will have designed it to do the right thing
[03:11:14] <jmkasunich> which might include a limit2 block to control the slew rate of a vfd, etc
[03:11:35] <cradek> yes, like I did
[03:11:49] <cradek> rigid tap is ...close...
[03:15:46] <jmkasunich> how usefull is a 5V 4A power supply in a nice small package?
[03:16:09] <cradek> seems like that would often be nice on the bench
[03:16:35] <jmkasunich> 3x5x1" similar to a laptop supply (IEC connector on one end for AC, cord on the other end)
[03:17:05] <cradek> if you put it in a nice box with an ammeter and banana jacks, I bet you'd use it a lot
[03:17:33] <jmkasunich> hard to say
[03:17:41] <jmkasunich> I have a nice variable supply already
[03:17:54] <jmkasunich> and another even nicer one that just needs a little work
[03:18:09] <jmkasunich> I found a space to store the 5V ones tho
[03:18:16] <jmkasunich> (there were 3 of em)
[03:29:26] <cradek> hmm, my approach is wrong
[03:29:42] <jmkasunich> anybody need some KVM cables (nice ones!)
http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/kvmcables.jpg
[03:29:49] <cradek> I think I'm going to have to allow real path reversal
[03:30:15] <jmkasunich> what were you trying to do?
[03:30:33] <jmkasunich> let them program down and back up as two moves?
[03:30:35] <cradek> just have two synced moves, one down, one up
[03:30:51] <cradek> well at the TP level - coming from gcode can be anything
[03:31:09] <jmkasunich> the first move will never end at the right spot unless you have a position loop on the spindle
[03:31:24] <cradek> I'm letting it go past, that's solved already
[03:31:46] <cradek> (it will reverse at the programmed depth, so it will travel a bit past)
[03:32:19] <cradek> but the problem is I have to let the spindle encoder count up and back down and follow it -- if I unsync I have to wait for another index, which I can't with the tap in
[03:32:32] <jmkasunich> so while going down, Z = K*spindlepos, when you hit the desired depth you set spindle speed to negative
[03:32:46] <cradek> right
[03:32:52] <jmkasunich> when spindle reaches zero, you start the next move, with Z=-K*spindlepos
[03:33:27] <cradek> yes but the spindle encoder is counting down now
[03:33:35] <cradek> so all the calcs are wrong
[03:33:55] <cradek> (threading with the spindle reversed has never worked)
[03:34:07] <jmkasunich> is there some variable that goes from 0 to 1 (or something like that) over the length of a move?
[03:34:25] <cradek> 0 to length, yes
[03:34:31] <jmkasunich> ok
[03:34:37] <jmkasunich> what is that var called?
[03:34:44] <cradek> progress
[03:34:47] <jmkasunich> ok
[03:34:58] <jmkasunich> during move #1, progress = K * spindlepos
[03:35:11] <jmkasunich> when progress = length, stop spindle ASAP
[03:35:19] <jmkasunich> after it stops, begin move 2
[03:35:26] <cradek> done
[03:35:49] <jmkasunich> during move 2, progress = length - (K * spindlepos)
[03:36:33] <jmkasunich> _if_ you could stop on a time, then progress would start a K and go to length as the spindle unwinds
[03:37:21] <jmkasunich> but if you overshoot the first move, then progress will be negative at the start of the second (by the same amount as the overshoot)
[03:37:33] <cradek> I think that can be fudged
[03:37:37] <jmkasunich> this requires that K and length be the same for both moves, not an unreasonable think to enforce
[03:38:09] <jmkasunich> man, I fscked up that statement (3 lines back)
[03:38:27] <cradek> I think I know what you meant
[03:38:32] <jmkasunich> _if_ you could stop on a dime, then progress would start a ZERO and go to length as the spindle unwinds
[03:41:10] <cradek> I think you're saying I have to fudge all the numbers and minus signs...
[03:41:35] <jmkasunich> if you're gonna treat it as two moves in series, yes
[03:41:40] <cradek> yeah
[03:41:52] <cradek> the other option is to have one move and allow backtracking along it
[03:42:05] <jmkasunich> if you treat it as a single "move" that doesn't go anywhere (begins and ends at the same place) then its simpler
[03:42:29] <cradek> not really, the whole structure of threading isn't like that
[03:42:41] <jmkasunich> huh?
[03:43:04] <jmkasunich> G0 <a-spot-just-above-the-part>
[03:43:17] <jmkasunich> Gthread Z<depth>
[03:43:22] <cradek> sure I understand
[03:43:26] <jmkasunich> that goes down to depth and returns to the same place
[03:43:38] <cradek> but in TP, currently threading needs lines to follow
[03:43:52] <jmkasunich> you mean lathe threading?
[03:43:55] <cradek> yes
[03:43:57] <cradek> same code
[03:44:09] <cradek> I should call it spindle synchronized motion
[03:44:09] <jmkasunich> tapping and lathe threading are completely different things IMO
[03:44:28] <jmkasunich> tapping never has leadin or leadout moves, its always in a straight line
[03:44:46] <cradek> s/threading/spindle synchronized motion/g
[03:44:46] <jmkasunich> and it always reverses and ends up in the same place it started
[03:45:13] <jmkasunich> I saw you say that
[03:45:21] <jmkasunich> but I disagree (I think)
[03:45:38] <cradek> the basic move is the same, you track the spindle proportional to the thread pitch
[03:45:54] <jmkasunich> in the ideal case, yes, it would be nice to be able to track any move or series of moves in either direction
[03:46:03] <jmkasunich> (edm guys would love that)
[03:46:09] <jmkasunich> but the implementation is a nightmare
[03:46:27] <cradek> I'm considering allowing backtracking along one move
[03:46:27] <jmkasunich> tapping is a special case, because the tapping move can be treated alone
[03:46:36] <jmkasunich> it will never be an arc, it will never have blending, etc
[03:46:52] <jmkasunich> and it will always be a single move
[03:47:07] <cradek> (I can't decide which implementation will suck less)
[04:07:56] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[05:27:56] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[05:58:35] <alindeman> [Global Notice] Hi all! As noted earlier, we're about to proceed with a massive upgrade of freenode's server code. This will cause a big outage, but hopefully only for a few seconds. For more information, check the news page:
http://freenode.net/news.shtml
[06:04:19] <A-L-P-H-A> let me here a whooo whoot!
[06:10:21] <alindeman> [Global Notice] Hi all! All affected servers have been restarted and the network should be returned to normal operation. However, if you notice any problems, please /msg an on-duty staffer in /stats p (or mail staff@freenode.net)
[12:01:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Lerneaen_Hydra_ is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra
[13:46:11] <alex_joni> morning all
[13:46:45] <alex_joni> jepler: when you're around I would like to talk about debs
[15:34:02] <alex_joni> jepler: well.. gotta run for a while, but I was wondering if we shouldn't backport the improved dpkg stuff to 2.1
[15:34:18] <alex_joni> I built and ran packages successfully
[15:37:25] <jepler> if it works, I'm in favor of backporting it too
[15:38:52] <alex_joni> ok.. I'll look over it some more
[15:47:57] <alex_joni> bbl
[19:08:18] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[19:47:45] <alex_joni> jepler: did you take a peek at the debian stuff I added?
[19:47:55] <jepler> alex_joni: I just saw the names of the added files
[19:48:00] <alex_joni> ok
[19:48:10] <jepler> those are just copied from the existing packages, right?
[19:48:14] <alex_joni> right
[19:49:28] <jepler> the configure change looks right to me
[19:49:46] <alex_joni> that's what I was wondering, thx
[21:58:23] <SWPadnos> which reminds me - this is the reason I had brought up GPL recently (with Alex, I think)
[21:58:37] <alex_joni> huh?
[21:59:14] <SWPadnos> a week or so ago, I asked a hypothetical "how might the GPL affect me" kind of question
[21:59:22] <SWPadnos> relative to emc/HAL
[21:59:26] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is getting old
[21:59:28] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:59:29] <alex_joni> memory is a fog
[21:59:37] <SWPadnos> getting married is the problem ;)
[21:59:50] <alex_joni> oh, I was hoping it was part of the solution
[21:59:53] <SWPadnos> no definite conclusions from the conversation though
[23:22:44] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[23:44:14] <alex_joni> cradek: I looked over the things jeff did for packaging today, added a few things and built / installed packages for dapper
[23:44:30] <alex_joni> cradek: I think it works quite OK, and I'm tempted to backport it to 2.1
[23:44:48] <alex_joni> but I'd rather do that after you look at this too
[23:50:40] <cradek> I trust you... I'm sure the stuff that's currently in 2.1 is not at all ready or tested
[23:51:09] <alex_joni> it needs a bit of fiddling with depends and all to make it work
[23:52:33] <alex_joni> the stuff that currently is in 2.1 I mean
[23:52:46] <alex_joni> the stuff in head makes it easier to build for different platforms
[23:53:05] <cradek> yeah, I think that's great
[23:53:39] <alex_joni> and it accomodates for the platform extra stuff
[23:54:14] <cradek> I could never decide if that stuff belonged in the emc cvs, but I guess everyone else thinks it does, which is fine by me
[23:54:37] <alex_joni> it's a place like any other
[23:55:00] <SWPadnos> if it has to change from version to version, then CVS is a good place
