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[02:40:01] <jmkasunich> cradek: you around?
[02:48:40] <jmkasunich> never mind, I figured it out ;-)
[03:22:40] <cradek> I am now
[03:35:50] <jmkasunich> I was trying to map the same network drive to my real win95 box to simplify moving some drawings
[03:36:07] <jmkasunich> I eventually realized that I was logging into the doze box as john, not jmkasunich
[03:36:12] <jmkasunich> easily fixed
[03:36:23] <jmkasunich> thanks again for the help with networking those boxes
[03:36:31] <cradek> sure
[03:36:51] <jmkasunich> question: am I leaving a gaping security hole by sharing my linux drive?
[03:37:18] <cradek> you don't allow any incoming network connections do you?
[03:37:41] <jmkasunich> the ssh and http ports are forwarded to cvs2 by the router
[03:37:47] <jmkasunich> everything else is blocked
[03:37:58] <cradek> then you can do pretty much anything with little worry
[03:38:05] <cradek> I'm behind NAT and don't worry about it
[03:38:10] <jmkasunich> ok
[03:38:37] <cradek> your real problem is there are not patches for all known win95 problems, and you can get cooties through the web browser
[03:38:53] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:39:09] <jmkasunich> I do very little random browsing with that box
[03:39:15] <cradek> yeah I figured
[03:39:33] <jmkasunich> usually just webmail and a couple other known places
[03:39:55] <jmkasunich> easycad does seem to work pretty well on the VM
[03:40:02] <cradek> that's great
[03:40:28] <jmkasunich> it complains that it wants to see 24/32 big graphics, and the vmware driver only supports 8/16, but it seems to work anyway
[03:40:48] <jmkasunich> I'm suprised the vwmware driver doesn't have wider color
[03:41:09] <cradek> what's your X server's depth?
[03:41:23] <jmkasunich> 24 I think
[03:41:29] <jmkasunich> whats the easiest way to check?
[03:41:33] <cradek> xdpyinfo
[03:41:50] <cradek> chris@buster:~$ xdpyinfo|grep 'depth of root'
[03:41:51] <cradek> depth of root window: 24 planes
[03:42:07] <jmkasunich> same here
[03:42:16] <cradek> huh, I'm surprised too
[03:42:39] <cradek> maybe it's a win95 thing
[03:43:09] <jmkasunich> I know that win95 can do 32 bit color - my real box with a Matrox card certainly does
[03:43:12] <cradek> my win2k vmware driver has 8/16/32 bit
[03:44:32] <cradek> you are using the vmware video driver right?
[03:44:48] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:44:59] <jmkasunich> Vmware SVGA II
[03:45:04] <jmkasunich> version 10.7
[03:46:51] <jmkasunich> I wish I knew why vmware sets the VM processes to nice -10
[03:48:00] <jmkasunich> I guess if you are running a bunch of virtual servers on a box, you aren't doing anything important in the "foreground"
[03:48:22] <jmkasunich> but when you are running VMs on your main desktop machine, you don't wnat them hogging the CPU
[03:54:37] <jmkasunich> I think tomorrow I'm going to start some heavy moving
[03:55:18] <jmkasunich> I need to either move the shoptask 6-8" away from the wall, or turn it 90 degrees, to allow for mounting a Z axis stepper
[03:55:31] <cradek> yay, I'm glad you're starting
[03:55:57] <cradek> think you might end up using emc for it?
[03:56:12] <jmkasunich> lol
[03:56:29] <jmkasunich> nah, I think I'm gonna use Mach
[03:56:48] <cradek> you should at least try emc.
[03:56:55] <jmkasunich> ok, if you insist
[03:57:19] <cradek> the sweet potato pies are almost done
[03:57:26] <jmkasunich> first thing I have to decide is how I want to orient the machine
[03:57:40] <cradek> what do you mean orient?
[03:57:42] <jmkasunich> lathe axis parallel to wall, or tailstock end against wall
[03:58:20] <jmkasunich> headstock end needs to be clear, to open the door that encloses the drive belts, and so that rods can be fed thru the spindle hole
[03:58:44] <jmkasunich> I need about 8" behind the bench for the Y (not Z like I said earlier) motor to stick out
[03:58:53] <jmkasunich> full access to the back would certainly be nice
[03:59:21] <cradek> can you move it easily with a palette jack?
[03:59:38] <jmkasunich> no - moving it is a major project
[03:59:57] <cradek> I see why you want to get it right then
[04:00:26] <jmkasunich> getting a pallet jack in the basement would be no fun - the one we have at work probably weighs a couple hundred pounds empty, and would barely fit down the stairwell
[04:01:26] <jmkasunich> my plan is to remove the mill motor, then remove the mill head
[04:01:36] <jmkasunich> take all the drawers out of the bench that the machine is on
[04:02:00] <jmkasunich> that will probably get me down to 500-600 lbs
[04:02:12] <cradek> ouch
[04:02:19] <cradek> that's still a lot for you and a few friends to lift
[04:02:23] <jmkasunich> I bet its close to 1000 now
[04:02:43] <jmkasunich> more like me myself and I, and lifting is not in the picture
[04:02:56] <jmkasunich> levers and rollers and such
[04:03:46] <cradek> is it on flat concrete?
[04:04:01] <jmkasunich> fairly flat, and more-or-less level
[04:04:09] <cradek> that's nice
[04:04:12] <jmkasunich> maybe 1/4" per foot slop
[04:04:14] <jmkasunich> slope
[04:04:48] <cradek> a big guy might be able to scoot around 500lbs on a flat floor
[04:05:09] <jmkasunich> I've moved a 1600 lb lathe by myself
[04:05:23] <jmkasunich> 1/2" diameter x 18" long steel rods for rollers
[04:05:37] <jmkasunich> 5 foot long prybar, lift one end and insert rod
[04:05:56] <cradek> sounds like an interesting challenge
[04:06:05] <cradek> how did you get this machine into the basement?
[04:06:05] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:06:12] <jmkasunich> took it to pieces
[04:06:36] <jmkasunich> both motors, the head, tailstock, and table all came off
[04:07:07] <jmkasunich> the rest slid down the steps on the pallet it came on (controlled by a block and tackle at the top of the steps)
[04:07:32] <cradek> good grief
[04:07:49] <jmkasunich> I really need to do something about the general level of mess down here if I want to be able to work efficiently
[04:08:03] <cradek> I sure know that feeling
[04:08:13] <jmkasunich> I have a PC that is holding up my granite surface plate right now
[04:08:28] <jmkasunich> haven't used (and probably will never use) the PC, its just taking up space
[04:10:02] <cradek> I have a row of 6 or so full tower cases in the computer room at work - they make a kind of table
[04:10:11] <cradek> occasionally I also use one for a ladder
[04:10:46] <jmkasunich> dead PCs?
[04:10:54] <cradek> oh they might work, I dunno
[04:10:57] <cradek> they're parts machines
[04:10:59] <jmkasunich> or are they your beowulf cluster? ;-)
[04:11:17] <cradek> nope nothing like that.
[04:11:41] <jmkasunich> this one is a pretty nice case - 19" high (does that make it a full tower?)
[04:11:59] <cradek> no I think that would be a mini tower
[04:12:21] <cradek> full tower is the one that barely fits under a desk
[04:12:23] <jmkasunich> my main pc is definitely a mini - 16" tall
[04:12:53] <jmkasunich> the 19" one is an HP "kayak"
[04:13:00] <cradek> since I always sit the machine next to the desk anyway, I like full towers
[04:13:03] <jmkasunich> at one time it was a gee-whiz engineering workstation
[04:13:09] <cradek> heh
[04:13:12] <jmkasunich> dual P3-600
[04:13:38] <cradek> you could put P3-1000 processors in it and have a pretty fast machine
[04:13:48] <cradek> actually it's probably pretty decent as-is
[04:14:09] <jmkasunich> its not crap, but I really don't need yet another moderately good machine
[04:14:54] <jmkasunich> I'd like to have a fsckin fast box - like SWPs dual socket dual core opterons or something
[04:15:03] <jmkasunich> and then run everything else with VMs
[04:15:22] <jmkasunich> in fact, I'm looking forward to getting rid of the cubix rack in the next couple of months
[04:15:45] <jmkasunich> there was a time when I thought that was a pretty cool setup - now its just the noisy thing in the rack
[04:16:03] <cradek> yeah I'd like swp's box too... but he had to put so much work in it
[04:16:16] <jmkasunich> he was on the bleeding edge?
[04:16:22] <cradek> yeah
[04:16:53] <jmkasunich> the dual head and the outrageously expensive monitors I can do without
[04:17:11] <jmkasunich> I just want a nice dose of fast
[04:17:43] <cradek> yeah
[04:18:04] <cradek> I'm thinking of getting a second screen like mine - they are only $3xx on ebay now
[04:19:14] <jmkasunich> what is yours?
[04:19:30] <cradek> the 2001 dell model (1600x1200 20")
[04:19:39] <jmkasunich> ah, similar to mine
[04:19:45] <jmkasunich> sony 20" 1600x1200
[04:19:51] <cradek> they screwed up the 2007 model, we have some at work
[04:20:20] <cradek> they have some kind of "auto sharpening" built in, and you can't disable it (they say it's to make DVD viewing better), and it screws up subpixel rendering
[04:20:41] <cradek> so I'll have to buy another of the old model on ebay
[04:21:13] <jmkasunich> I don't have enough bench space for another monitor, so I can resist that temptation pretty easily
[04:24:29] <jmkasunich> I will be on the lookout for a nice cheap smaller LCD
[04:24:42] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna mount it right on the machine
[04:24:55] <cradek> seems like they're still $125
[04:25:14] <jmkasunich> (the Shoptask - its gets confusing when we use the word "machine" to mean both the PC, and the thing it controls
[04:26:06] <jmkasunich> I should buy some of these things this year, so I can write them off against the income from the CIM jigs
[04:26:32] <jmkasunich> hmm - $99 for a 15" 1024x768 from microcenter
[04:27:14] <jepler> jmkasunich: I'm pretty happy with the 17" I bought for around $150 -- 1280x1024. it shimmers a bit and it looks like the price went up since I bought it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824224007
[04:29:17] <jmkasunich> I have to decide if 1024x768 is enough to run EMC
[04:29:27] <jmkasunich> 15" will be easier to mount
[04:29:41] <jepler> we used to make sure axis fit on 800x600 -- I'm sure it fits fine on 1024x768
[04:29:52] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:30:17] <jmkasunich> it only becomes a problem when you are running EMC, and halscope, and classicladder, and a shell or two....
[04:30:32] <jmkasunich> which will only be during system integration
[04:30:39] <jepler> yeah it gets cluttered fast
[04:30:52] <cradek> pretty sure I'd want 1024x768 for a dedicated machine controller
[04:31:04] <cradek> text starts getting small with anything more
[04:31:06] <jepler> looks like the axis main window is 666x597 on my screen, so it won't fit on 800x600 anymore .. not with toolbars anyway
[04:31:44] <jmkasunich> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=248359
[04:31:52] <jepler> ugh it's doing something weird when I resize it
[04:32:00] <jmkasunich> gotta pay tax, but no shipping
[04:32:11] <jepler> cradek: are you using icewm or gnome's native wm these days?
[04:32:14] <jmkasunich> $99 after rebate
[04:32:51] <jmkasunich> wow, there was _another_ $20 rebate today only
[04:33:17] <jepler> jmkasunich: sounds like a nice deal if you could still get it
[04:33:32] <jmkasunich> the 99 price is good until 12/3
[04:34:34] <jmkasunich> there are 17" ones for $139 after rebate, and 19" widescreen for $159
[04:35:07] <jmkasunich> I know where I'm gonna mount the monitor
[04:35:13] <jmkasunich> no clue at all about keyboard and mouse
[04:35:46] <jepler> goodnight jmk
[04:35:53] <jmkasunich> goodnight jeff
[04:39:48] <jmkasunich> I seem to recall Ray asking on list about how people set up their computers/monitors/keyboards, and didn't get much of an answer
[04:40:12] <jmkasunich> you just have everything on the same table/bench as the mill, right?
[04:41:01] <cradek> yes
[04:41:23] <cradek> it's not a real problem for small machines
[04:41:34] <jmkasunich> chips and oil and general yuck would make that a disaster for me
[04:42:06] <cradek> the only minor problem I've had is the keyboard gets dirty
[04:43:16] <jmkasunich> dirty hands on the keyboard are a real problem, no matter where you put it
[04:44:43] <jmkasunich> trackball might be a better choice than a mouse
[04:45:13] <cradek> both suck in dirty environments
[04:45:24] <cradek> I think the only hope is a glidepoint/touchpad
[04:45:31] <jmkasunich> yeah, but the trackball doesn't need acres of space
[04:45:56] <cradek> you barely need a pointer to run emc
[04:46:06] <jmkasunich> I wonder what "spill resistant" means for keyboards
[04:46:15] <jmkasunich> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823205001
[04:46:31] <cradek> a buckling spring keyboard is everything-resistant
[04:46:33] <jmkasunich> disposable - $2.92 each
[04:47:34] <cradek> I don't see how anything with membrane switches can be spill resistant
[04:48:59] <jmkasunich> buckling spring is the original IBM technology?
[04:49:06] <cradek> yeah
[04:49:28] <cradek> no contacts or exposed conductors at all
[04:50:01] <jmkasunich> not immune to blue-hot chips I bet ;-/
[04:50:28] <cradek> not immune - resistant, maybe
[04:50:49] <jmkasunich> the way I see it, I have to mount it high enough that chips won't fall on it
[04:51:28] <cradek> yep
[04:52:06] <jmkasunich> need a touch screen monitor
[04:52:09] <cradek> but for touch-off you'll want one hand at the tooltip and one hand on the keyboard, so they have to be close.
[04:52:44] <jmkasunich> the hand on the keyboard is for hitting the "here's the right place" key?
[04:52:54] <jmkasunich> or for jogging? - remember, I will have a jogwheel
[04:52:59] <cradek> ah
[04:53:02] <cradek> then it's not so important
[04:54:20] <jmkasunich> if I was a touch typist I could put the keyboard against the wall near the tailstock
[04:54:34] <jmkasunich> but I'd have to turn 90 degrees to use it, and my blind typing isn't that good
[04:54:52] <cradek> sounds not ideal
[04:55:23] <cradek> http://www.daskeyboard.com/
[04:56:55] <jmkasunich> heh, I'd be screwed
[04:57:26] <cradek> I don't have one of these but I used an HP keyboard with scooped F/J instead of "nipples" on the keys - I liked it
[04:57:45] <cradek> I'm forever feeling for the little dots on the F/J keys
[04:58:29] <jmkasunich> I never do - I certainly don't hunt and peck, but I very much look at the keyboard, at least when I'm putting my hands on it
[04:59:00] <jmkasunich> right now my ergonomics are just terrible
[04:59:23] <jmkasunich> the keyboard (and mouse) are on top of the bench, much higher than they should be
[04:59:34] <jmkasunich> 33" from the floor
[04:59:47] <cradek> don't you have a normal desk where you do your computer-only work?
[04:59:53] <jmkasunich> no
[05:00:15] <jmkasunich> http://home.att.net/~jmkasunich/Pics/bench.jpg
[05:00:27] <cradek> I do, so it makes the ergonomics of the workshop unimportant
[05:00:39] <jmkasunich> that is before I got my LCD, but that is my "desk"
[05:00:44] <cradek> eek
[05:00:51] <cradek> no room for legs
[05:01:07] <jmkasunich> yeah there is
[05:01:21] <cradek> ok, doesn't look like much
[05:01:36] <jmkasunich> kneehole is 18" wide
[05:02:21] <cradek> my smallish desk has 25"
[05:03:20] <jmkasunich> I really need something better, but space is an issue
[05:03:30] <jmkasunich> of course, maybe if I cleaned up some of the mess
[05:03:36] <cradek> heh
[05:03:51] <cradek> jepler sits on the couch with a laptop - another possible approach
[05:04:23] <cradek> I've tried that but always come back to the desk
[05:04:33] <jmkasunich> I can't stand laptops
[05:05:05] <cradek> I'm off to try the pie - goodnight
[05:05:10] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[18:06:51] <alantouring> hi
[18:08:25] <SWPadnos> ni
[18:08:30] <SWPadnos> hi, also
[18:08:43] <alantouring> I have just installed the ubuntu emc in my old windows partiion and I have lost my previous BDI setup. Is there a way to get it back?
[18:09:17] <SWPadnos> do you mean that you can no longer boot to it, or that it was erased during the Ubuntu installation?
[18:10:04] <alantouring> I am pretty sure it is still there, its just that ubuntu does not give me access to it when i boot
[18:10:45] <SWPadnos> ok. and when you ask about access, do you want to access the files from the ubuntu boot, or that you want to be able to boot the BDI installation?
[18:10:54] <SWPadnos> (or both)
[18:11:28] <alantouring> I'd like grub to show me both systems so i can choose at boot time
[18:11:52] <alantouring> I can see the files from ubuntu
[18:12:47] <alantouring> I like the ubuntu system very much, but I can't get it to work with my Sherline machine (I don't know how)
[18:14:08] <SWPadnos> sorry - was afk for a moment
[18:14:28] <SWPadnos> ok, so the ubuntu system automatically picked up the partition, and mounts it for you - that's good :)
[18:14:44] <alantouring> I'm in ubuntu land right now
[18:15:02] <SWPadnos> if you run the "mount" command, that will tell you what the partition name is (something like /hda2, I'd bet)
[18:15:18] <SWPadnos> ir it's probably in the GUI somewhere, but I'm not positive where :)
[18:16:10] <alantouring> /dev/hda1 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro)
[18:16:10] <alantouring> proc on /proc type proc (rw)
[18:16:10] <alantouring> /sys on /sys type sysfs (rw)
[18:16:10] <alantouring> varrun on /var/run type tmpfs (rw)
[18:16:10] <alantouring> varlock on /var/lock type tmpfs (rw)
[18:16:12] <alantouring> procbususb on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw)
[18:16:16] <alantouring> udev on /dev type tmpfs (rw)
[18:16:18] <alantouring> devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,gid=5,mode=620)
[18:16:20] <alantouring> devshm on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw)
[18:16:23] <alantouring> /dev/hda2 on /media/hda2 type ext3 (rw)
[18:16:25] <alantouring> /dev/hda3 on /media/hda3 type ext3 (rw)
[18:16:37] <SWPadnos> you'll need to look under the BDI partition /boot directory to see the name of the BDI kernel
[18:17:02] <SWPadnos> ok - check /media/hda2 to see if there's a boot dir there. if not, check under /media/hda3/
[18:17:24] <alantouring> the hda3/boot directory is empty
[18:17:45] <SWPadnos> ok, is there one under /media/hda2 as well?
[18:17:57] <alantouring> yes
[18:18:03] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[18:18:43] <SWPadnos> what size are the hda2 and hda3 partitions?
[18:19:12] <alantouring> in hda2, I have system.map, configxxxrtai and initrd.img files
[18:19:27] <alantouring> and a grub folder
[18:19:37] <SWPadnos> ok. it's possible that hda2 was mounted as /boot, and hda3 was the root partition
[18:19:53] <SWPadnos> (with the empty boot dir for hda2 to be mounted under)
[18:20:26] <SWPadnos> if you look at /media/hda2/grub/menu.lst, that will have the information that you need to add to /boot/grub/menu.lst
[18:20:47] <alantouring> ok thanks
[18:21:12] <SWPadnos> sure. if you need any more pointers just let us know
[18:30:06] <alantouring> I have changed the file and I am about to test with a reboot, thank you
[18:31:13] <alantouring> One more thing, are there known Sherline setups for EMC2 ubuntu? I tried copying the ini files from the Sherline site but emc does not run
[18:31:54] <alantouring> The coolcnc iso does not really work either with my mill
[18:32:19] <SWPadnos> the sherline site has EMC1 (or BDI) configs, so they shouldn't work
[18:32:30] <SWPadnos> the closest will be stepper_inch (or _mm)
[18:32:47] <alantouring> I am surprised that they aren't upgrading
[18:32:51] <SWPadnos> you should follow the instructions on the wiki for customizing configs on Ubuntu
[18:33:16] <SWPadnos> yeah - they probably should, but who knows ...
[18:33:26] <alantouring> I had a look. it seems like a lot of work that can fail easily
[18:33:36] <SWPadnos> which does?
[18:33:46] <alantouring> I am sure I am not the first guy with that mill
[18:34:07] <SWPadnos> nor the last ;)
[18:34:41] <alantouring> So if they can all do it, I guess its not that difficult
[18:35:09] <alantouring> I'll have a look, thanks for the help
[18:35:14] <SWPadnos> no problem
[19:39:30] <cradek> we could/should make sample configs that are workalikes for the sherline configs
[19:39:55] <cradek> I bet it's just a matter of scale/vel/accel settings
[19:42:41] <SWPadnos> yeah - I suspect the scales are pretty standard for their machines (as well as the pinouts, of course)
[19:43:57] <cradek> yes I'm sure the pinouts were made to match emc1, so our default will match
[19:44:13] <cradek> I don't know if they have an estop button or anything, they might
[19:44:28] <cradek> I have not personally seen their setup
[19:44:30] <SWPadnos> I suppose a look at the ini file would tell us that
[19:45:53] <cradek> I'm not entirely sure how to get it are you?
[19:46:00] <SWPadnos> off the CD?
[19:46:06] <cradek> I don't know if the bdi CD we can download matches what sherline uses
[19:46:09] <SWPadnos> I don't see it on the website
[19:46:18] <cradek> for a while they had their customizations to bdi on sherline.com
[19:46:20] <SWPadnos> they link to ourproject, which links to cncgear
[19:46:28] <SWPadnos> yeah - for 2.18, they say
[19:46:45] <cradek> maybe we should ask the next sherline user who drops by for his
[19:47:01] <SWPadnos> or possibly jmkasunich
[19:47:10] <SWPadnos> (or anyone else who has a BDI 4.xx install)
[19:47:16] <SWPadnos> oh yeah - like me :)
[19:47:29] <cradek> ok you're assuming they're the same
[19:47:35] <SWPadnos> I think the BDI installs two icons on the desktop
[19:47:37] <cradek> ray would know for sure obviously
[19:47:39] <SWPadnos> yes, that's my assumption
[19:47:49] <SWPadnos> well, the BDI was made for Sherline, so ...
[20:06:24] <jmkasunich> hi guys
[20:08:06] <cradek> hi
[20:08:52] <SWPadnos> hi
[22:14:24] <alex_joni> hi
[22:15:31] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: around?
[22:47:15] <alex_joni> maybe tomorrow :) off to bed now
[22:49:40] <jepler> night alex
