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[00:57:24] <jmkasunich> hi guys
[00:57:33] <jmkasunich> saw the comment about the .FC7 files
[00:57:39] <jmkasunich> and I agree the source should be in cvs
[00:57:46] <jmkasunich> now I just gotta find it
[00:59:39] <cradek> the exact path was in the eps file
[01:00:06] <cradek> D:\JMK\Drawings\emc2-motion-homing-diag.FC7
[01:01:58] <jmkasunich> yeah, but that was probably 3 computers ago
[01:02:13] <cradek> I know how that goes
[01:13:57] <LawrenceG> Hi John, Chris
[01:14:05] <cradek> hi
[01:15:06] <LawrenceG> speaking of old computers, got a batch from a neighbor this afternoon.... a 486, a PII-300 and an unknown AMD with a bad capacitor mb.
[01:15:37] <jmkasunich> 486? now that is old
[01:15:44] <cradek> I'm tempted to drag out my 486 to install the Yggdrasil disc I recently found
[01:16:05] <LawrenceG> 2 have been seriously recycled down to the nuts and bolts :}
[01:16:19] <skunkworks> probably a giga-bit mother board
[01:16:27] <jmkasunich> I did that not too long ago with a deskjet printer
[01:16:44] <LawrenceG> The PII is getting a dapper install... ASUS mb with 512mb.... might just befast enough for something
[01:16:47] <jmkasunich> one pile for steel, one for plastic, one for PC boards, and one for possibly usefull bits
[01:17:04] <cradek> LawrenceG: fast enough for emc...
[01:17:41] <LawrenceG> barely... I have a 400 with emc, but using axis, a 500-600 runs better
[01:18:08] <cradek> I guess mine is PIII - maybe it's faster because of that
[01:18:32] <LawrenceG> I am surprised this has so much ram.... it came from a windows environment
[01:18:32] <cradek> I also got lucky and have GL direct rendering with my matrox card
[01:18:46] <cradek> how much in the 486?
[01:18:57] <cradek> mine has 16!
[01:19:09] <cradek> (it was a unix machine all along)
[01:19:20] <LawrenceG> not sure... I didnt fire it up... just put the ram in the drawer for "later"
[01:19:27] <cradek> heh
[01:20:26] <LawrenceG> Have you ever pulled a slot 1 cpu off a motherboard?.... this one has 1 dead fan that is growning at me
[01:20:42] <cradek> is that the one that looks like a camera?
[01:21:05] <jmkasunich> slot1's are socketed, pretty easy to remove
[01:21:19] <LawrenceG> yes... big black block with 2 fans on a cpu/heatsink
[01:21:29] <skunkworks> many times - there are about 3 different latch styles.
[01:21:30] <cradek> the camera kind just has tabs on the ends
[01:21:48] <cradek> yeah the latches can be anything, you have to figure it out but then it'll pull straight up
[01:21:57] <LawrenceG> they are not a very nice design for a high vibration environment
[01:22:17] <cradek> my PIII has nylon retaining clips too
[01:22:20] <LawrenceG> cool.. I remember fighting with another one
[01:22:23] <cradek> but that's a server thing
[01:22:26] <LawrenceG> it won
[01:22:32] <cradek> ha
[01:24:04] <LawrenceG> a lot of time the fans come back to life with a little lube and cleaning
[01:25:57] <jmkasunich> yay, found the drawing source files
[01:25:58] <LawrenceG> lots of broken stuff here this week... had to replace an oven relay on the stove... what a cheap piece of junk that was
[01:26:56] <cradek> jmkasunich: yay!
[01:27:27] <LawrenceG> Chris... for the 2.1 testing.... is there any chance of debs being built for the testing releases?
[01:27:35] <jmkasunich> now gotta figure out what to do with them
[01:27:46] <jmkasunich> the .FC7 format is binary I believe
[01:28:08] <cradek> LawrenceG: yes we will probably build debs of some kind after the branch
[01:28:10] <cradek> jmkasunich: cvs add -kb file.fc7
[01:28:29] <jmkasunich> I could use easycad to export them as .DXF, which would be more attractive if others want to edit, but might not exactly represent what I see on my screen
[01:28:29] <cradek> jmkasunich: (I think)
[01:28:43] <cradek> oh I see what you're saying now
[01:28:55] <LawrenceG> cool
[01:29:07] <cradek> dxf is sure better than fc7 in my mind
[01:29:29] <jmkasunich> I'll try a export/inport cycle and see how badly they get messed up
[01:29:41] <jmkasunich> usually its text and fonts that suffer - basic outlines do fine
[01:29:42] <cradek> or if you want to put the fc7 in cvs just so you don't lose track of them, that's cool too
[01:30:17] <jmkasunich> its tempting to put both, but that has pitfalls
[01:30:26] <cradek> LawrenceG: IMO, the packaging part of the release needs to be tested too. not sure how we'll do it exactly yet.
[01:31:14] <LawrenceG> the debs make it SO easy to test with... I am looking forward to some of the new features
[01:31:30] <cradek> even if the quality suffers a bit, dxf is an open format and that's worth a lot
[01:32:19] <cradek> LawrenceG: are you running the cvs now or just waiting?
[01:33:11] <LawrenceG> no, running 2.0.4 currently, but I have a box here in the shack I am using for testing my brush servo driver
[01:33:41] <LawrenceG> Its onlya 400 celeron, so I havent bothered to install the cvs version and devel tools
[01:39:41] <jmkasunich> ok, who knows anything about qcad or other linux cad tools
[01:40:08] <jmkasunich> I can export these drawings to DXF in autocad 9, 10, 11/12/LT, 13, 14, or R2000 format
[01:40:14] <jmkasunich> too many choices
[01:40:29] <cradek> 11/12/LT :-)
[01:40:48] <jmkasunich> that one's kinda generic?
[01:41:08] <cradek> oldish but not prehistoric
[01:41:40] <cradek> 13 gives you LWPOLYLINES etc which can be trouble
[01:43:40] <jmkasunich> ok. I'll give it a shot
[01:43:48] <jmkasunich> I just installed qcad, so I can test
[01:47:25] <cradek> I can check it in acad 12 too
[01:47:45] <cradek> I could convert it to gcode... :-)
[01:48:38] <jmkasunich> mill printing plates and make hard copy
[01:48:55] <jmkasunich> whats the easiest way to see if a file is in dos format?
[01:49:17] <cradek> umm I just load it in vim and see if it says [dos]
[01:49:25] <cradek> but you could use od etc
[01:51:00] <jmkasunich> 0a0d
[01:52:29] <jmkasunich> looks reasonable in qcad
[01:52:36] <cradek> great
[01:52:44] <jmkasunich> the original was black on white, this is white on black, but that can't be too hard to fix
[01:52:51] <jmkasunich> (I never used qcad)
[01:53:10] <cradek> it's just vectors, that's a display issue
[01:53:27] <jmkasunich> the dots were filled circles in easycad, hollow here
[01:53:54] <cradek> not sure acad has/had filled circles
[01:55:29] <jmkasunich> copy on the way to you, give it a shot
[01:55:38] <jmkasunich> I already do-dosified it
[01:56:04] <jmkasunich> de-dosified that is
[01:56:25] <cradek> ok let me find a machine with acad on it...
[01:57:54] <jmkasunich> hmm, I knew some of these weren't gonna be easy
[01:58:13] <jmkasunich> there isn't one-to-one mapping between drawing files and images in the doc
[01:58:51] <jmkasunich> I have one drawing that has a bunch of stuff on it - I selected individual windows and printed their contents to make multiple images from the one drawing
[01:59:00] <cradek> hmm I thought this machine had acad...
[02:04:16] <jmkasunich> looks like qcan can only export to bitmap formats
[02:05:03] <jmkasunich> I can print to a file, but that is .ps, not .eps, and I think it automatically assumes a paper sheet sized object, instead of just an image that can be inserted elsewhere
[02:11:23] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/homing.png
[02:11:51] <cradek> whew
[02:11:52] <jmkasunich> text size is borked
[02:11:54] <jepler> ps2epsi can turn a .ps into a .eps
[02:12:31] <cradek> it wanted some arial truetype thing; I told it to shut up and use simplex instead
[02:12:45] <cradek> it looks fine to me
[02:12:56] <jmkasunich> look at the first line of text
[02:13:12] <jmkasunich> "POSITIVE" is supposed to end well before "HOME OFFSET" starts
[02:13:21] <cradek> hmm
[02:13:26] <jmkasunich> and the 3.000 should be nowhere near the switch releases arrow
[02:13:58] <jmkasunich> the qcad version looks very close to the easycad version
[02:14:11] <jepler> maybe if qcad had the same font it would look the same
[02:14:19] <jepler> er, if autocad did
[02:14:49] <cradek> yeah I bet it would
[02:15:00] <jmkasunich> I'm very tempted to figure out how to create the proper eps files using qcad and other linux tools, and recreate all the drawings - and document the steps
[02:15:03] <jepler> /usr/share/fonts/truetype/msttcorefonts/arial.ttf
[02:15:22] <jmkasunich> there is scaling, orientation, all kinds of fun stuff to get them to look right in the final document
[02:15:41] <cradek> let me try that
[02:16:00] <jmkasunich> I can't seem to get qcad's print preview to show portait orientation
[02:17:16] <jepler> jmkasunich: under Edit > Current Drawing preferences you can select portrait or landscape .. that changed what I saw in preview
[02:17:38] <jepler> you can also choose a paper size there
[02:18:20] <jmkasunich> yeah just noticed that
[02:18:38] <jmkasunich> but after switching it to portrait, things don't seem to be working
[02:18:52] <jmkasunich> I wonder if I busted something by switching while the print preview was open
[02:19:39] <jmkasunich> ah, maybe zero size paper isn't so good ;-)
[02:21:14] <cradek> Wrong type "ttf". Requires "shx" or "pfb".
[02:21:24] <cradek> guess my autocad doesn't do truetype at all
[02:23:31] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/homing.png
[02:23:51] <jmkasunich> custom paper size doesn't work - no matter what size I set, when I come back to the dialog its back at zero
[02:24:03] <jmkasunich> lol
[02:24:41] <cradek> welcome to 1994
[02:27:04] <jmkasunich> hmm - looks like LyX can make an image any size we want
[02:27:13] <jmkasunich> (dialog box once its inserted)
[02:27:24] <jmkasunich> so we can just print all of them full page
[02:27:36] <jmkasunich> use qcad's "fit to page" button for consistent results
[02:28:01] <cradek> doesn't it scale the bitmaps and make them look crappy though?
[02:28:09] <jmkasunich> what bitmaps?
[02:28:11] <jmkasunich> ps man ps
[02:28:21] <cradek> oh ok
[02:28:39] <cradek> maybe you should learn to love xfig...
[02:29:07] <jmkasunich> maybe not
[02:33:26] <jmkasunich> looks like we can skip the ps2eps stage
[02:33:36] <jmkasunich> lyx is perfectly happy with .os
[02:33:37] <jmkasunich> .ps
[02:36:17] <jmkasunich> whats with all the directories in docs/src/foo anyway?
[02:36:35] <jmkasunich> there is a foo for each major section, thats fine
[02:36:44] <jmkasunich> in that dir are the lyx files and images for that section
[02:36:52] <jmkasunich> but also in that dir is a subdir for each lyx file
[02:37:05] <jmkasunich> which is empty
[02:37:21] <jmkasunich> where the drawings gonna go in those subdirs or something?
[02:37:47] <cradek> I'm not seeing that, give me an exact path
[02:38:10] <jmkasunich> test
[02:38:16] <jmkasunich> /emc2head/docs/src/code$
[02:38:23] <jmkasunich> dud, leading slashes don't like IRC
[02:38:46] <jepler> the only directory inside there is CVS/
[02:38:49] <cradek> in src/code I see just the files and CVS
[02:38:55] <jmkasunich> wtf
[02:39:05] <jepler> but if you are building the docs, latex2html creates a directory for each input file
[02:39:15] <jmkasunich> oh....
[02:39:20] <cradek> offs
[02:39:28] <jmkasunich> thats where they're coming from
[02:39:37] <jepler> latex2html is crap but it's the best crap I could find
[02:39:52] <jmkasunich> hey, if it works I don't care
[02:39:54] <cradek> I hate when programs crap all over the place and don't clean it up
[02:40:05] <jmkasunich> if those dirs aren't in CVS I'm not gonna sweat it
[02:40:13] <cradek> yeah they're not
[02:40:19] <jepler> it's actually the output directory, but I thought I mv'd it to docs/html
[02:40:23] <jepler> so maybe it's a bad makefile rule
[02:41:01] <cradek> I haven't built on realtime for a long time...
[02:41:37] <jepler> that shouldn't matter, but --enable-build-docs hasn't been the default for awhile
[02:41:43] <jmkasunich> I rm'd the dirs, gonna try building the docs again and see if they come back
[02:41:51] <cradek> sorry, it was an aside
[02:43:52] <jmkasunich> thats annoying - qcad's print to file defaults to the users home directory, and the filename defaults to print.ps
[02:44:12] <jmkasunich> it would be much nicer it id defaulted to <path-and-name-of-current-drawing>,ps
[02:44:31] <jmkasunich> jeez, I can't type
[02:44:40] <jmkasunich> s/it id/if it/
[02:44:46] <cradek> *cough*apt-get source qcad*cough*
[02:45:21] <jmkasunich> I'm planning on a README for docs/src saying how to create the .ps files from the .dxf
[02:45:35] <jmkasunich> I don't think it should start out "hack qcad" ;-)
[02:45:36] <cradek> cool
[02:45:41] <cradek> haha
[02:45:50] <jepler> you mean "install the official emc version of qcad"?
[02:45:59] <cradek> yarrgh!
[02:47:05] <cradek> hmm, qcad has a command line, but it doesn't do what I want when I type autocad commands
[02:47:36] <cradek> but I can zoom with the scrollywheel...
[02:47:40] <cradek> maybe it's worth learning
[02:48:12] <cradek> when I open your dxf, I don't get arrowheads on the pointers
[02:49:36] <cradek> that seems like a killer
[02:49:37] <jepler> jmkasunich: see if that change I checked in gets rid of your extra directories when the HTML files get re-made
[02:52:17] <jepler> can I have a copy of the dxf you guys are working with?
[02:52:48] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/emc2_motion_homing_diag.DXF
[02:53:11] <jepler> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden
[02:53:51] <cradek> EAGAIN
[02:56:08] <jepler> thanks
[02:58:52] <jepler> yep I don't get arrows in qcad either
[02:59:25] <cradek> they are in the dxf, so qcad must not do them
[03:03:22] <jepler> I can't find how to turn that on in qcad
[03:10:22] <LawrenceG> I think in qcad the arrows are there, but the scaling is all wrong.... they are microscopic... I ran into this once before... forget how I changed it
[03:14:10] <jmkasunich> sorry, was away for a bit
[03:15:05] <jmkasunich> running a make to see if the dirs go away
[03:16:05] <jmkasunich> about the arrows - I must be blind - didn't even notice them missing
[03:16:16] <jepler> I zoomed way in and can't find the arrows
[03:16:23] <jepler> but if you zoom too far in, the lines start to be in the wrong places
[03:17:26] <jmkasunich> searching the qcad help does _not_ find the word arrowhead
[03:17:51] <jmkasunich> finds arrow, but every use I've looked at so far is "click the right arrow button" or such
[03:17:57] <skunkworks> what arrows are you missing? looks fine here on acad 2000
[03:18:15] <jmkasunich> on the ends of the horizontal lines that represent the moves
[03:18:23] <jmkasunich> fairly large filled in arrowheads
[03:18:25] <skunkworks> they show up here
[03:18:28] <skunkworks> yes
[03:18:31] <jmkasunich> its a qcad thing
[03:18:53] <jmkasunich> maybe I should go back into easycad and draw them as filled polys
[03:26:28] <jmkasunich> its a shame they have a command line, but no way to start the program and feed it a series of commands
[03:26:57] <jmkasunich> jepler: the makefile change worked - no leftover directories
[03:28:08] <jepler> jmkasunich: good
[03:28:31] <jepler> maybe the problem of editing those files with free software should be left for another day
[03:28:34] <jmkasunich> I think I'm gonna crash early tonight - tomorrow I'll work on porting over all the drawing sources
[03:29:39] <jmkasunich> if anybody has any ideas for the arrow thing let me know - if not, I'll probably draw them as distinct entities in easycad
[03:29:49] <jepler> sounds like it's just a qcad bug
[03:29:58] <jepler> but I can't find any support for arrows on the end of lines..
[03:30:04] <jmkasunich> not a bug
[03:30:18] <jmkasunich> they just don't consider "arrow" to be a drawing primitive
[03:33:40] <jmkasunich> it looks like easycad considers an arrowhead to be a boolean attribute that applies to each end of every line segement
[03:33:45] <jmkasunich> segment
[03:34:46] <jepler> clearly there's some way it's represented in dxf
[03:35:57] <jmkasunich> want a dxf consisting of a single line with an arrowhead on one end?
[03:39:52] <jepler> no thanks -- I don't have what it takes to add a new feature to qcad
[03:40:04] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:40:29] <jmkasunich> well, I just saved a line with and without an arrowhead, and I'm gonna diff them for the heck of it
[03:42:26] <jmkasunich> doesn't look like a primitive in the dxf file
[03:43:08] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich@ke-main-1006:~/drawings$ diff -u arrow_zero_end.DXF arrow_one_end.DXF
[03:43:08] <jmkasunich> --- arrow_zero_end.DXF 2006-11-20 22:40:35.000000000 -0500
[03:43:08] <jmkasunich> +++ arrow_one_end.DXF 2006-11-20 22:40:29.000000000 -0500
[03:43:08] <jmkasunich> @@ -411,7 +411,7 @@
[03:43:08] <jmkasunich> 9
[03:43:09] <jmkasunich> $HANDSEED
[03:43:11] <jmkasunich> 5
[03:43:13] <jmkasunich> -23
[03:43:15] <jmkasunich> +24
[03:43:17] <jmkasunich> 9
[03:43:19] <jmkasunich> $SURFTAB1
[03:43:21] <jmkasunich> 70
[03:43:24] <jmkasunich> @@ -961,6 +961,38 @@
[03:43:27] <jmkasunich> 31
[03:43:27] <jmkasunich> 0.0
[03:43:31] <jmkasunich> 0
[03:43:33] <jmkasunich> +SOLID
[03:43:33] <jmkasunich> + 8
[03:43:37] <jmkasunich> +STANDARD
[03:43:37] <jmkasunich> + 62
[03:43:39] <jmkasunich> + 3
[03:43:43] <jmkasunich> + 5
[03:43:43] <jmkasunich> +21
[03:43:46] <jmkasunich> + 10
[03:43:48] <jmkasunich> +0.595829
[03:43:53] <jmkasunich> + 20
[03:43:55] <jmkasunich> +4.399206
[03:43:56] <jmkasunich> + 30
[03:43:57] <jmkasunich> +0.0
[03:44:00] <jmkasunich> + 11
[03:44:02] <jmkasunich> +0.780166
[03:44:04] <jmkasunich> + 21
[03:44:07] <jmkasunich> +4.403658
[03:44:08] <jmkasunich> + 31
[03:44:11] <jmkasunich> +0.0
[03:44:11] <jmkasunich> + 12
[03:44:14] <jmkasunich> +0.760931
[03:44:17] <jmkasunich> + 22
[03:44:19] <jmkasunich> +4.481311
[03:44:21] <jmkasunich> + 32
[03:44:25] <jmkasunich> +0.0
[03:44:27] <jmkasunich> + 13
[03:44:28] <jmkasunich> +0.595829
[03:44:31] <jmkasunich> + 23
[03:44:33] <jmkasunich> +4.399206
[03:44:34] <jmkasunich> + 33
[03:44:37] <jmkasunich> +0.0
[03:44:38] <jmkasunich> + 0
[03:44:40] <jmkasunich> ENDSEC
[03:44:42] <jmkasunich> 0
[03:44:45] <jmkasunich> EOF
[03:44:47] <jmkasunich> that was _supposed_ to be the pastebin url, not the paste itself, sorry
[03:44:49] <jmkasunich> http://pastebin.ca/253835
[03:47:13] <jmkasunich> items 10/20/30, 11/21/31, thru 13/23/33 are 3-d points
[03:48:08] <jmkasunich> 4 points defines a closed outline of a triangle (the 4th is the same as the first)
[03:52:33] <jmkasunich> the arrowheads are just considered "SOLID" entities, thats what the first two lines are
[03:52:46] <jmkasunich> the next two define the layer
[03:52:49] <jmkasunich> then 2 for the color
[03:53:00] <jmkasunich> 2 for the entity handle
[03:53:05] <jmkasunich> then xyz triplets
[03:54:28] <A-L-P-H-A> A-L-P-H-A is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[03:56:55] <jmkasunich> the actual file (with the arrowhead)
[03:56:58] <jmkasunich> http://pastebin.ca/253842
[03:59:18] <skunkworks> do you need it as a dxf file?
[03:59:34] <jmkasunich> ?
[03:59:55] <jmkasunich> I/we are trying to figure out why qcad doesn't display the arrowhead
[04:00:14] <a-l-p-h-a> I need a girl instead... pref 21-27 yrs of age. Knows what she wants. Petite, and cute. Intelligence is a big +
[04:00:21] <jmkasunich> that file has an arrow in it, the previous pastebin is the diff between that one and an identical one without the arrowhead
[04:00:38] <a-l-p-h-a> serious Q. is there a pastebin that has DIFFS?
[04:00:55] <jmkasunich> I made a diff and pastebin'ed it
[04:00:56] <skunkworks> ah - I was thinking it was a dxf file just because. I could have work convert it to a jpeg or something
[04:02:27] <jmkasunich> that file is a dxf file
[04:02:42] <jmkasunich> I created a drawing in easycad (windoze, non-free) and exported as dxf
[04:02:58] <jmkasunich> qcad opens it, but doesn't display the arrowheads
[04:03:09] <jmkasunich> so I'm looking at the exported dxf files
[04:04:08] <skunkworks> odd. so it exports the dxf correct (I can read it) but qcad can't read it back in?
[04:04:31] <jmkasunich> qcad reads it, but seems to silently ignore the arrowhead
[04:04:36] <jmkasunich> no error message, and no arrow
[04:04:38] <skunkworks> rigth
[04:04:46] <skunkworks> right
[04:07:07] <jmkasunich> I think I see the problem
[04:07:20] <jmkasunich> qcad doesn't seem to have "SOLID" as an entity type
[04:07:46] <jmkasunich> it has fills, where you select a group of pre-existing entities and then tell it to fill in the space defined by those entities
[04:14:12] <jmkasunich> yay
[04:14:15] <jmkasunich> hollow arrows work
[04:14:43] <jmkasunich> hollow ones are stored in the dxf as polylines, which qcad understands
[04:15:02] <jmkasunich> solid ones are stored in the dxf as "SOLID", and qcad has no clue what that is
[04:19:42] <jmkasunich> so I'll change all solid arrowheads to hollow in easycad before I export the drawings
[04:19:43] <jmkasunich> (tomorrow)
[04:19:47] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[04:29:05] <cradek> cool, glad it's that simple
[19:06:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Lerneaen_Hydra_ is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra
