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[00:15:19] <jmkasunich> bugs and panics, oh joy
[00:28:45] <cradek> darn I missed him
[00:28:59] <cradek> sounds like a bogus compile or something
[00:29:06] <cradek> or the problems we had with >1G of ram
[00:29:16] <cradek> those are still not fixed according to the rtai list
[00:31:29] <jmkasunich> I'm not going to worry about it
[00:31:56] <jmkasunich> what to do some high speed machining?
[00:32:04] <cradek> ?
[00:32:08] <jmkasunich> I was working with a neat motor today - 160HP at 12000RPM
[00:32:15] <cradek> wow
[00:32:26] <jmkasunich> about 1 foot in diameter, less that 1-1/2 feet long
[00:32:58] <cradek> what's it for?
[00:33:21] <jmkasunich> its intended for a vehicle application - hybrid deisel electric garbage truck
[00:33:36] <cradek> neat
[00:33:54] <cradek> garbage trucks spend most of their time stopped, I bet electric is great for them
[00:34:08] <jmkasunich> the spend most of their time starting and stopping actually
[00:34:17] <jmkasunich> the system will include a large bank of supercaps
[00:34:28] <cradek> is it regenerative?
[00:34:43] <jmkasunich> each stop will store up energy that can be used for the next start
[00:35:00] <cradek> yeah nice
[00:35:22] <jmkasunich> the diesel will be idling at a constant load, instead of puffing black smoke into the air with each start
[00:35:22] <cradek> I want an electric car to drive to work
[00:35:41] <cradek> oh it's a generator like a locomotive, slick
[00:35:57] <jmkasunich> pure electrics are very limited
[00:36:06] <cradek> so is my daily drive
[00:36:10] <jmkasunich> battery capacity, cost, and lifetime
[00:36:36] <cradek> not true about capacity now with Li-ion
[00:36:59] <jmkasunich> maybe not for your drive, but for the average person's daily usage batteries are still an issue
[00:37:02] <cradek> I guess the 'tesla racer' has > 300 mile range and charges in 4 hours
[00:37:10] <jmkasunich> and costs how much?
[00:37:26] <cradek> plenty I'm sure, it's still a prototype
[00:37:40] <cradek> I'm just saying the battery technology might be here now.
[00:38:05] <cradek> I bet most people drive way < 50 miles a day, and the 70s electrics had that range
[00:38:38] <jmkasunich> true, but you'd need another car (or rent) for the occaisonal long trip
[00:38:40] <cradek> on regular old lead-acid technology
[00:38:47] <cradek> sure
[00:39:22] <jepler> I wish gcc could warn for arrays that are missing their sentinel value, presumably when the array's type is declared with a special attribute
[00:39:27] <jmkasunich> I have one vehicle, that I paid about 14K for.... to need two, and one of them probably $30K because of batteries....
[00:39:33] <cradek> I bet 90% of my driving is the 20 miles a day thing
[00:39:48] <jepler> so 'struct example x[] = { {"foo", 3}, {"bar", 4} };' would be a warning at compile time, becaue it's not terminated with {NULL, NULL}
[00:39:52] <jmkasunich> sentinal at the end?
[00:40:00] <jmkasunich> oh
[00:40:08] <jmkasunich> that bit you again?
[00:40:15] <jmkasunich> (I saw a commit like that recently)
[00:40:24] <jepler> there had apparently been one lurking in axis for a very long time
[00:40:46] <jepler> and it's surprising to me that it hadn't turned up before
[00:41:55] <jepler> __attribute__((sentinel)) already exists for functions
[00:42:12] <jmkasunich> never heard of that
[00:42:21] <jepler> `sentinel'
[00:42:21] <jepler> This function attribute ensures that a parameter in a function
[00:42:21] <jepler> call is an explicit `NULL'. The attribute is only valid on
[00:42:21] <jepler> variadic functions.
[00:42:47] <jepler> it explains that this attribute is automatically applied to 'execl' and 'execlp'
[00:44:07] <jepler> int main(void) { execl("/bin/echo", "echo", "foo"); }
[00:44:12] <jepler> nonull.c:2: warning: missing sentinel in function call
[00:44:31] <jmkasunich> huh... learn something new every day
[00:44:51] <cradek> I've never seen that - I guess I'm careful about those nulls
[00:46:07] <jepler> I guess I'm not
[02:50:50] <cradek> "released under a GPL or GPLD license"
[02:51:18] <cradek> is this just an error?
[02:51:53] <jmkasunich> ?
[02:52:01] <cradek> from the user manual
[02:52:06] <cradek> I have no idea what GPLD is
[02:52:25] <cradek> the text in there about licensing is very sloppy, I'm trying to fix it
[02:52:30] <jmkasunich> gnu public license for documentation
[02:52:45] <jmkasunich> a copy is included in the manual (at the end)
[02:52:51] <cradek> that's the "GNU Free Documentation License"
[02:52:57] <cradek> aka GFDL I think
[02:53:09] <jmkasunich> then somebody messed up the documentation
[02:53:42] <jmkasunich> messed up the acronyms I mean
[02:53:51] <cradek> ok
[02:53:59] <cradek> I bet you're right, that's what they meant.
[02:54:22] <cradek> The source code files that make up the controller are kept in a repository on cvs.linuxcnc.org - they
[02:54:25] <cradek> are available for anyone to download and use as they see fit.
[02:54:36] <cradek> um bad paste
[02:54:53] <cradek> "source code ... available for anyone to download and use as they see fit"
[02:55:51] <cradek> "if you modify the code ... make a public release ... you must return your modifications to the developers"
[02:56:18] <jmkasunich> where are you pasting from? the docs?
[02:56:23] <cradek> yes the user manual!
[02:56:42] <jmkasunich> seems like someone is trying to paraphrase the GPL and doing a so-so job of it
[02:57:01] <cradek> so-so is being generous
[02:57:08] <jmkasunich> the GPL is not the simplest thing to describe in a few sentences
[02:57:13] <cradek> very true
[02:57:23] <cradek> I'm tempted to replace that summary with a URL
[02:57:35] <jmkasunich> URL of what? RMS?
[02:57:45] <cradek> to the GPL itself
[02:58:36] <jmkasunich> that won't help
[02:58:50] <cradek> what do you suggest?
[02:59:00] <jmkasunich> the paraphrase is there for a reason, to sumarize the GPL in a few sentences
[02:59:18] <jmkasunich> most users don't care about or need the details
[02:59:47] <cradek> the paragraph says several incorrect things.
[02:59:49] <jmkasunich> there's probably writing at gnu.org that would serve as a good summary
[02:59:57] <cradek> I'll look
[03:00:24] <jmkasunich> I'm not saying that the existing paraphrase should be used, but we need something simpler and cleaner than the license itself
[03:00:45] <cradek> I was hoping to find it in the gpl preamble... but I'm not seeing it
[03:03:15] <jmkasunich> parts of this maybe?
[03:03:15] <jmkasunich> Battle in Helsera (10 minutes ago)
[03:03:16] <jmkasunich> Giblot vs. (rogue)
[03:03:16] <jmkasunich> Estimated combat strengths: < 500 CS vs. < 500 CS
[03:03:16] <jmkasunich> Defender Victory!
[03:03:16] <jmkasunich> Battle in Wirkfyr (10 minutes ago)
[03:03:20] <jmkasunich> (rogue) vs. Giblot
[03:03:26] <cradek> !?
[03:03:28] <jmkasunich> Estimated combat strengths: < 500 CS vs. 1000 CS
[03:03:30] <jmkasunich> Defender Victory!
[03:03:31] <jmkasunich> oops
[03:03:34] <jmkasunich> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
[03:03:35] <jmkasunich> an online rpg
[03:03:35] <cradek> haha
[03:04:07] <jmkasunich> amazing how long things stay on the clipboard, thats hours old
[03:09:30] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/gpl-summary.png
[03:09:37] <cradek> tell me what you think of this
[03:09:49] <cradek> (I couldn't figure out a good way to paste it here)
[03:09:58] <cradek> that last paragraph before 1.5
[03:10:05] <jmkasunich> right, looks good to me
[03:10:20] <jmkasunich> what is the footnote about?
[03:10:57] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/gpl-summary.png
[03:11:00] <cradek> oops
[03:11:02] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/gpl-summary.png
[03:11:03] <cradek> dammit
[03:11:09] <jmkasunich> hee hee hee
[03:11:11] <cradek> f-ing lyx
[03:11:17] <cradek> some parts of emc2 are released under LGPL, to allow proprietary software to be linked together with emc2 (GUIs, hardware drivers, etc.)
[03:11:31] <jmkasunich> all sounds good to me
[03:11:34] <cradek> is that worded how you want? (I don't know much about that part)
[03:12:07] <jmkasunich> actually, I'd be content to drop the footnote completely
[03:12:23] <cradek> leaving (with some exceptions) or removing it?
[03:12:39] <jmkasunich> lemme think a moment
[03:13:45] <jmkasunich> "some parts of emc2 are released under the "Lesser" GPL, which allows them to be used with proprietary software as long as certain restrictions are observed".
[03:14:39] <cradek> I like that, fixed
[03:16:14] <jmkasunich> bedtime here
[03:16:16] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[03:16:20] <cradek> goodnight
[03:16:24] <jmkasunich> and thanks for all the effort on docs
[03:16:33] <cradek> welcome
[03:16:40] <cradek> it's a bit challenging to keep at it
[03:16:50] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:17:08] <jmkasunich> don't do so much that you burn out
[03:17:22] <cradek> I'm just doing a bit at a time.
[20:01:45] <alex_joni> kinda quiet tonight
[20:02:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> indeed it is
[20:11:49] <alex_joni> * alex_joni grabs a bubbly bath
[20:11:53] <alex_joni> bbl
