is there any reason why we need readline version 5 in particular?
i gotta say there is some weird stuff i dont understand in the test for -lreadline in configure
jepler is the local expert on that
you could stay in #emc too, never know when it might drift back on topic ;-)
#emc-devel is pretty boring usually
True... My irc skills are rusty. I've forgotten how to go into expert mode and be in both and all.
well, zwisk said he was thinking
what IRC client?
it was dangerous :)
ircii it seems...
oh, that might be single channel, (or require a true expert)
I've gotten used to gui clients, they use tabs for multiple channels
I used to do it all the time... like /novice n or something...
just keep /joining and the tabs keep poppin up
* fenn has 10 channels open :x
new fangled gui's... bah.. :)
or old ones...
anyway, I was thinking about refactoring again. I should probably stop thinking about that.
what did you think of?
The trick would be to refactor while maintaining a high level of compatibility with what's being used now.
Cradek was suggesting that the previous work I put into the last refactor might be salageable. I've forgotten enough of what was or wasn't accomplished with that effort that I've deluded myself into thinking he might be right...
and as capabilities keep getting added, it gets harder and harder to do that
(that = keep compatibility)
one big goal of the refactor was to move metadata out of shared memory
Well, the 'brute force' solutoin to that would be to 'convert' all the existing clients.
clients = configs that use hal? hal modules? or?
Yes, the work I did disposed of shared memory and put all of the metadata in kernel memory. It used ioctl's to access kernel memory in a 'standard' way.
how did you handle commands that result in variable sized output?
(such as "list all pins")
all of the above :) Whatever would need to be changed, be in configs, modules, or ... (Modules is primarily what I had in mind. Configs shouldn't need much change... I would hope...)
I used an iterator (if I recall correctly) that would return a record for 1 pin, and allow you to walk the list of pins. I'm not remembering how I locked the list at the moment though.
is there a lot of overhead when using an ioctl? (wondering how heavy an operation iterating thru a couple hundred pins would be)
Nope, not a lot. It's not nothing, and it is a copy from kernel to user space, but you don't do it very often.
we no longer iterate for just "show pin" and halscope/halmeter probe assignment
now we iterate for readline completion lists and such...
I guess some investigation would be in order. I also had a front end on it which used /proc, so you could ls /proc/ and get a listing of all the pins and stuff.
(It was probably /proc/hal/ )
As I recall, I quite playing with it when emc2 (and I) moved from the 2.4 to 2.6 kernel...
So, it's been a while.
yeah, I seem to recall some ideas like a /proc/hal node for each object
a proc interface would be very nice
Maybe I'll dig that code back up and see about moving it to 2.6 ... then we can play with it and see if it's useful.
fenn: the more I thought about it, the less I liked it
As I recall, I didn't complete the refactor... Pins couldn't yet be connected or something.
think about the halcmd language... and try to map that onto /proc entries
it gets non-pretty after a while
ioctrl's on the other hand, seem like a more lightweight way to do things
halcmd invokes ioctrls, the kernel space code is probably less than building a massive proc tree
i dont mean for actually doing stuff inside hal, but more for interfacing with userspace applications
fenn: I dunno what you mean
halcmd is used to configure things
pins are used to interface
we already have a clean API for pins
just random crap like, getting the name of a signal connected to a pin (for tooltips in classicladder for instance)
that is a halcmd-like function
I remember paul being exta excited about ioctl and not about proc, so I did both.
I think paul raised a legitimate concern that the kernel folks are moving stuff out of proc and into sysfs
I sure as heck don't want to support both
Anyway, the 2 big key improvements in my mind ar the ability to instantiate and tear down stuff without removing or reloading modles, and moving stuff out of shared memory and into kernel memory.
nah... support would purely be through halcmd. /proc/ is just kinda showy :)
the two may or may not be tied together
right. They are different things.
although each requires enough hacking on the internals that it makes sense to do them both at the same time if possible
way back when, there was just the hal.h API
Are folks creating hal objects that compile both in user and kernel space these days?
now the halcmd language is as important, if not more so, as a standard to be compiled with (or carefully modified/extended)
in fact I'm very tempted to remove the user space code from parport
I seem to recall that being one of the wishes, but I don't think I've ever seen the user space stuff go.
dual mode components is something I thought interesting at one time, but in hindsight...
haha ... 20/20 hindsight.
otoh, user space only comps are a usefull thing, and are finally starting to appear
halvcp, halui, the joystick driver...
I actually think it could be useul. The comments recently on the lists about "simulator" mode, while not quite correct in the way they were written, I think are valid -- Some folks would like to play with these things without modifying their kernel, even if that means *not* having realtime motion.
agreed, but I would not address that with dual mode components
the comps should still be in kernel space, they just don't run in realtime
I'm really interested in having a non-rt simulator for development purposes, but I think we're foolish if we let people hook that to hardware because they *will*
as long as we can get kernel/user shared memory with a vanilla kernel, we don't need the RTOS
Debugging some things is easier in userspace, but I'll concede the point. Having hal work in your jiffies mode seems at least interesting.
if it was straightforward to make every component a dual mode component, I'd be in favor of that
but its not... it would take messy makefile foo just to build them, and messy conditional stuff inside each component
(I do most of my development on a machine that will never be hooked to a mill, and I would rather not run a realtime kernel to do it)
Ok... showing my forgetfulness and pure ignorance, why is it not easy? I recall we talked some about trying to abstract the hal interface to make that possible once...
I want to keep components clean, so people who are average programmers can make a hal component
Dispense with the notion of conditionals inside the components... :)
one extreme idea that I actually expored for a while was to make everything run in user space
use LXRT from RTAI to get hard realtime in user space
but you still need wind up doing a trap and change from ring 3 to ring 0 every time you do an inb or outb
I just can't bring myself to do that in the RT code
its one thing to do a bunch of ioctl system calls for a halcmd operation, its another thing entirely to do that in a driver
hmm... yeah, I was going pretty much the other way-- almost everything in the kernel.
thats my current approach too
I should dust off what I was doing before and get back up to speed so I can talk about this more intelligently....
(in all my 'free' time :) )
On a slightly related note... I have RPMs for RTAI on FC3 that I'd be happy to put someplace if others are interested. Do we have a good place for those?
(I asked about that last night, but lost any potential answers in my scrollback buffer :) )
i'll be happy to whine when it doesnt work
alex_joni hosts the ubuntu packages, maybe you could ask him
Well, fenn... these have been running on my primary machine for over a year. They do break with vnc, but that's the only problem I've had with them :)
vnc breaks rtai?
I do hope to spin a more recent version, though, and those will require testing, undoubtedly.
Doh ... sorry... my bad... not vnc. vmware.
The vmware kernel modules apparently do something un-rtai friendly.
no big surprise
vnc would be a big surprise :-)
yeah. It's one of the big reasons I started using qemu instead of vmware.
I'm glad to know that, I use qemu for dos autocad on my mill's machine and was considering switching to vmware for speed - but now I won't
If you do get it to work, I'd be interested to hear about it... as vmware is a bit quicker than qemu at the moment.
I'm not going to mess with it, qemu is fast enough for me
It's completely possible that my problems were a specific interaction with my version of rtai and the kenrel.
I'd hate to screw up a part if I forgot to close autocad
did you have problems running ordinary user space stuff with a RTAI patched kernel in vmware? or running RT stuff?
I stopped doing this about a year ago, so I'm a bit foggy, but as I recall, the machine screeched to a halt and pretty much locked up as soon as vmware tried installing it's modules.
is this vmware on a machine patched for RTAI, or RTAI on a vmware virtual machine?
gawd, it gets confusing doesn't it?
I've never tried running rtai inside vmware... always rtai on a linux box on real hardware running vmware.
I don't imagine an emulated rtai inside a non-real-time vmware instance would be of much use.
I've been considering vmware on a box running vanilla linux, with multiple vm's running various distros with various RTOS patches
its usefull as a compile farm
That's probably a good use.
build but don't run, so actual RT performance doesn't amtter
but it needs to have the patched kernel and all the right headers, etc
I don't know what the percentage speed difference between qemu and vmware is, but if I were doing what you just described, I'd use qemu... It's easy to script :)
right now I run individual machines for the compile farm, but a single box would be nicer to maintain
I tried qemu once, too slow
Did you use the non free-source accelerator stuff? Makes a big difference. And it's of course getting better all the time.
the existing compile farm is a rack of 200MHz Pentiums with 128M each - not speed demons
But I'll concede that it's probably still slower.
oh .. yeah.. I have some of those around :)
but when I tried with qemu on a dual CPU 600MHz P3 box with 768M of ram, it was much slower than the existing farm
took over 24 hours just to install ubuntu on the emulated box
I guess I've been running it on >1.5ghz boxes. Of course, I'm usually running something like word, because I'm forced to.
eek. That's harsh.
I only have one 1GHz + box, this one (AMD Sempron 2800+, I think thats about 1.6GHz)
I've come to like the mini-itx intel mobile processors... they've become much more affordable, are low power, and run most things pretty quick.
hmm... I mixed motherboards and processors. It's a package deal you know :)
for the compile farm, cases are a pain
(unless I have one fast box and emulate the rest)
Anyways... I'm off to play with the mill some. Thanks for the chat on hal, jmkasunich...
the existing farm is a blade system, 8 in one box
I'd totally get 1 fast box and run 20 emulators inside of it! :)
but old and thus slow
1 fast box = 1 cash outlay
Think of the savings to your electric bill alone! :)
* jmkasunich is cheap
the existing rack is fairly efficient
Yeah, me too. :) (cheap)
its running on a single 375W ps right now
Almost all my computers are hand-me-downs in the 'free' category, on their way to the dump..
but you don't get "fast boxes" that way
ell, 1ghz isn't 'fast' anymore...
The 1.1ghz laptop I'm using right now was acquired that way.
I wonder how the generic $249 computer would run if asked to go 24/7
my best trashpicked boxes are dual 600MHz P3
for about a year (the fans would all quit)
never seen a 1G+ in the dumpster yet
cradek: what does it take to get more reliability?
These are mostly from friends. Being in silicon valley does have it's advantages on the 'junk' side of things...
I suspect a more expensive consumer grade computer isn't the answer
jmkasunich: I'm not sure you can buy more reliability.
I want server grade
jmkasunich: just have a stock of good quality fans etc.
(and make backups)
old server stuff can be really good (and dumpstered because it's large/slow)
thats the best of what I have now
(haha, you saw mine)
but then the tech lag comes into play, not gonna find a fast one in the dumpster
and I bet the new prices are shocking
fast - good - cheap: pick two
well, good and free is what I've gotten so far
thats MY lines...LOL
I have both fast-cheap and good-cheap
but what about fast good and cheap...
I could get fast-cheap, $249 at microcenter
* cradek helps Mess count to two
but there are 3 options...
its infected with a virus tho (that can be fixed, but I hate the idea that even $0.10 of my money is buying a license instead of hardware)
jmkasunich: me too. I haven't bought a prebuilt machine to this day because of that.
Mess: but you only get to pick 2 - thats the point, everything is a tradeoff
"barebones" machines don't have that issue, but they actually cost more
ive been using that line for 15 yrs... dont tell me you got all 3 i'll not believe... ; )
I still buy at most motherboard/processor/ram and scrounge everything else
well, back to machining... gotta take the collet chuck off and put the 3-jaw on... pain
* jmkasunich is lazy
[02:40:33] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Oword#Sample_4_a_subroutine_for_helical_hole_milling_using_radius_comp
this is cool, I wrote it for doing my motor mounts
helical hole milling?
cutting a hole with an end mill
one that can't plunge?
or doesn't plunge well (all of them)
it uses radius comp to calculate the actual helix radius
heh, I usually ramp down while moving in a straight line somewhere in the waste area, then move to the perimiter and work my way around
not much waste area in these holes
damn, how'd it get so late
sundays are like that aren't they
fenn: I'm not very well-versed in configure. Mostly I copied from the existing stanza for 'ncurses'. maybe I got something wrong...
i have libreadline.so.4 installed, but it doesnt seem to find it (it does find all the header files however)
i'm trying to figure out how to include gcc 3.4 standard header files right now
i dont understand why it doesn't see them - i've got symlinks to it everywhere and it's in /usr/local/include
do you have libreadline.so? That's the name that "-lreadline" will search for
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 2006-06-25 16:02 /usr/lib/libreadline.so -> /lib/libreadline.so.5
I'm pretty sure that's all AC_CHECK_LIB does
how does ac_check_lib work? is that a command or a macro or what?
it's an autoconf ... thing
I think it's an m4 macro which expands into lines of shell script
configure:6204: checking for readline in -lreadline
configure:6234: gcc-3.4 -o conftest -g -O2 conftest.c -lreadline -lXaw >&5
basically it just tests that this link command succeeds
well it finds it now, maybe i changed something
ah it magically apeared: file /usr/lib/libreadline.so.5 is not owned by any package
ok i'm going to bed before i screw things up any further
alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
zwisk: hi, glad you're back
actually, I guess alex_joni said hi over hear... :)
was away on another terminal
how goes it?
it goes well.... except I strained my back playing with the mill today. Doh!
that's not nice
zwisk: like I said, I'll be away the next few days, but I'll put the rpm's on linuxcnc.org now
(I am downloading right now, eventually they will be all there..)
you can go on, and announce it on the emc list
if you need assistance around linuxcnc.org either jmkasunich or SWPadnos, and probably a few others can help
or me ;)
thanks alex_joni... sorry I was in another window mysefl! :)
it's IRC.. pretty common ;)
I was meaning to ask you.. I see there is a SMP package
how does that work? did you try it?
I didn't have an SMP box to try it on, so I don't know... but it builds as part of the standard set of things...
ok, I was probably expecting that ;)
Another reason to get more people playing with 'em to see what works and what doesn't...
check /msg ;)
ok, packages are all on www.linuxcnc.org/rpm/
cool... thanks much!
nothing to thank me for ;)
thank you for making them
zwisk: I trust you'll send an email to the lists?
oh.. just got it ;)
cradek_ is now known as cradek
hi jmk! day off?
yep, 4 day weekend
I'm at work - there was little competition for parking places today
gonna mow the grass (if its dry enough), then maybe go to HGR and the range
I thought you mowed yesterday or so
I was going to, but it was raining
HGR industrial surplus
oh cool, I was there
get some good stuff for me
"good stuff" is a little vague ;-)
how bout some cutters for your mill: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4352254&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
better yet, a nice mill... http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4352091&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
Description: MISCELLANEOUS TOOLING Price: $1.99
ooh, that's a cool mill
the tooling is $1.99 per lb, pick out what you want. I've gotten good stuff that way
dammit I want to go to HGR again
that was the coolest place, but it's x000 miles away
small stuff like 6-32 taps are pretty cheap at $1.99/lb ;-)
you have surplus center, I have HGR
surplus center is hardly any good. no machinery.
where's the star trek transporter when you need it!
[13:51:28] <cradek> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4365716&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
what's with the extra table behind the head?
I've seen those with two heads mounted (each offset about a foot from center)
you can mill two parts at once
also, they made tracer mills, where one head was a sensor that followed a part while the other one milled
I got my very nice Tek 466 at HGR
nice test equipment at HGR? you gotta be kidding?
most of the electronics I've seen there is beat to death and overpriced
not your experience? it might not be nice by modern standards but I like it
it was $100 iirc
I mean nice as in condition
I plugged it in there and it was fully functional
you lucked out
I cleaned some gunk off of it, but it's in good condition
there were a lot of scopes that weren't so good...
I've seen scope with knobs broken off (and the shafts bent, not a simple relace the knob thing) priced at 399
Distance: 858 mi (about 14 hours 50 mins)
not a casual visit
more beef (CNC beef) http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4358026&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
but no tool changer
need some taps? 174 lbs at 3.99 a lb
maybe they have a 5-40 for you
they have 94 pieces of 1/4-19 taps...
somebody must have made a mistake setting up the tap grinder ;-)
now that's a common size
or it's a typo, and they're 1/4-18 pipe taps
wonder what size these are? http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4361181&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
and is it 9.99/tap or per box
Searching Inventory by Keyword = sherline No Results Found. Please Try Again.
well of course
they are an _industrial_ surplus place
just the thing for high speed milling of PCBs: 50000RPM electronic spindle
[14:09:05] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4352315&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
of course, no electronics to go with it
I thought you had to use air powered stuff to get speeds that high
dental grinders are ~100kRPM, I think (and electric)
hmmm - maybe not so high a speed
I wonder if a die grinder could be used as a high speed spindle
[14:14:26] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4356870&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=1
sure looks promising
dunno what the bearing quality and runout is
a hand tool probably doesn't demand the same standard as a rigidly held tool
_old_ drill press, kinda cute http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4359634&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
well damn... the range is closed today
at least I called before I drove 35 miles
here's your james g. biddle partial discharge detector: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4353279&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=3
ohh, just what I wanted
actually, we have gotten involved in partial discharge testing at work ;-)
[14:38:18] <cradek> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4353305&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=3
nice stepper power supply?
bet its AC
0-140V at 10A sounds like a standard variac
just a variac
found a 100KV power supply
just what you need I'm sure
5V @ 50A ?
10V @ 100A?
heh, a 640V 160A "power supply"... actually its a DC motor drive from the look of it
ohh, a 200 watt CO2 laser!
[14:44:46] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4356274&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
what is a "KVAR"? http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4351605&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
kilo volt amp reactive
that is just set of three big ac rated caps
if you have a factory full of induction motors, they tend to draw a lot of reactive current (inductive, current lags voltage)
the power company doesn't like that, the reactive current heats up the wires but doesn't transfer usefull power
so you put caps on the line to draw leading reactive current, cancel it out
(more than you wanted to know... ;-)
hmm, you gotta take their descriptions with a grain of salt
manufacturer VIOLUX, descr: power supply..... its actually a pallet stacked with chairs
heh, theres one that will run a few geckos: 48V 1750A power supply
you'd probably notice that discrepancy while loading the pallet into the truck...?
dunno, maybe not until you try to hook it up
if you on't notice, you deserve the chairs ;)
sits down in chair, mumbling "where's the damned line cord"
cradek: tired of using double sided tape? http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4350219&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
or this one http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4362013&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
I may have something like that somewhere...
you must have more crap than I do
nah, just different crap
things that big I have a pretty good idea what I've got
you don't have a barn then
if you have a barn full of crap, then you have more than me
"a barn populated with things", please ;)
no, I'm quite honest about what it is
and it's NOT full
or possibly "a barn densely populated with things"
I know, because I occasionally fit more things in it
do you ever take things out?
I took my motorcycle out this spring
not what I meant
I'll admit crap, er, things go in more often than they come out
the whold point of collecting crap is so you have it when you need it
so more crap, er, things is always better, right?
of course if you're gonna have a decent chance of having the particular variety of widget you need, you gotta have about 50 assorted widgets in the crap pile
multiply by all the various classes of widget, and you get a pretty big pile
and not a 5-40x1.5" screw to be found
need another barn
or at least more screws in the one you have
oh I don't look there for screws, I look in the garage
can't find a damn thing in the barn
well thats the problem... the 5-40 x 1-1/2 screws are in the barn
bottom of the 4th mason jar on the 3rd shelf in the back corner, under the spare feezlewops
for every screw, turn, turn, turn
you have a lathe, turn turn turn
and the time for this purpose
need to the screw to fix the lathe
that's what the other lathe is for
SWP: he'd need an oven too... 5-40 socket head cap screw needs heat-treat after threading
and its a bitch to make the socket...
oh mine would definitely be a slotted head
just make it a sloted screw and be done with it
so basically a minimum home shop needs 2 lathes, 2 milling machines, 2 bandsaws, and a host of accessories
no class at all
I skipped that class
weird - I have a Bacon number of 2
what's your sausage number?
much lower :)
[15:12:20] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon_number
I think I know what you are talking about
so you have a bacon number of 3 - scary, huh?
I thought that only applied to "films appeared in", not "persons acquainted with"
since my films appeared in is zero, my bacon number is 1/0
I thikn it's more generalized to "worked on projects with"
assuming it's relazed to include crew, as the page notes, I'm still at 2, but you'd be inf/NaN (along with most of the world, thankfully)
$399! they must be outa their freaking mind
what is it, unobtainium core with gold foil shielding?
it doesn't have ends on it or anything, I wonder what they think is so special about it
maybe another screwup?
maybe it's high quality optical fiber? ;)
yeah, a 500meter piece thats been cut into 20 meter chunks to make it more usefull (note the number of visible ends)
reminds me of the Monty Python skit "String"
due to poor planning...
it's been cut into 3 inch lengths ...
"have you ever seen a hospital without string?"
Emperor Calble-ettes, as used in Hospitals
maybe it's waterproof cabling
maybe it was
it's Super Absorbent
[15:23:58] <SWPadnos> http://www.mattwalsh.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/JokeEntryMontyPythonStringSketch
Ah, but there's a snag, you see. Due to bad planning, the hundred and twenty-two thousand miles is in three inch lengths.
"DESTROY NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF KNOWN HOUSEHOLD PESTS WITH PRE-SLICED, RUSTPROOF, EASY-TO-HANDLE, LOW CALORIE SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL EMPEROR STRINGETTES, FREE FROM ARTIFICIAL COLORING, AS USED IN HOSPITALS!"
that's the epitome of marketing :)
time to mow the grass, the dew should be burned off by now
if anybody finds something (portable) they want from HGR, lemme know
will do, thanks
jmkasunich: if you see any small knurling or parting tools in the bulk bins i'd be grateful if you got them for me
fenn_ is now known as fenn
he's probably gone already..
still mowing (came in to take a break, re-hydrate)
its only medium hot, but very humid
jmkasunich, can you take a look at the selection of 5C collets/ collet chucks?
theres a lot of 5C collets
dunno about chucks
I saw a bin of 5C collets for $4.99 (each, I assume)
collet quality varies, do you have any particular sizes you are looking for?
there's a batch of Hardinge collets for $6.99 each as well
what sizes do you already have?
well - let's see
what do you have to stick them in?
(lathe spindle, etc?)
I should be getting a lathe Real Soon Now
you know that it takes 5C?
it will be either 5C or 16C, and I can get an adapter for 16C -> 5C
not sure how well those work thoug
ok - so you have a specific lathe in mind
wonder what size collets this takes? http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4352870&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
and what spindle nose thread that is
I have one for 5C, they are very nice
it looks big
the thread? yeah
overall diameter is probalby 9-10" or so
the spindle thread is probalby on a removable backplate - mine was, I removed it and made a backplate to fit the shoptask spindle
that looked like something I've seen advertised as "step chucks"
they pictured it from the back, dunno why
to shouw the mounting scheme?
the front takes a collet, and you spin the ring (that looks like a steering wheel) to tighten
SWPadnos: you can get new enco brand collets for 3.99 it seems
ok, maybe the used ones aren't a good idea then ;)
hardinge beats the heck out of enco, IF they're not worn out, sprung, or otherwise busted
they have Lyndex (not hardinge, but not no-name either) for $14
ok. I've seen a lot on eBay as well (I love the term "emergency collet" ;) )
complete set of enco brand 1/16 to 1-1/8 by sixteenths is 64.95
I have a set, they've served pretty well
you can tell they're chinese (finish mostly) but they work fine
I'm sure that would be good enough for me, and if it's not, I can buy the one or two sizes I need from a really good brand
that was my thought when I bought the set
haven't bought any more since ;-)
[16:53:02] <jmkasunich> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=285&PARTPG=INLMK32
you have a bport, don't you?
any R8 sizes you need?
I sold a bunch at the workshop, in fact :)
do you do any woodworking?
collets need a rack/box
I made a couple collet boxes I'm pretty pleased with
yep - I was just looking at those on the enco page
take a piece of 1xX, where X is the height of a collet + 1" or so
put a slot to fit 1/8 masonite 1/4" from the top and bottom
masonite == some concrete thing, or the plastic countertop stuff?
put a slot to fit 1/8" alum down from the top, by the length of the tapered part of the collet + 3/8"
make two masonite rectangles and one alum one
make holes in the alum one that the collets will fit in (like the enco rack)
cut the 1xX into 4 pieces, front, back, two sides
glue up with masonite and alum in the slots to make a box
then cut the box open with table say, add hinges
(cut between alum and top masonite, of course)
keeps em clean, and you can stack stuff on top, unlike a regular rack
ah - ok, I was wondering where the aluminum went :)
hmmm - rack == table. that could be bad
when I got my set, it actually included the 12.95 enco rack on that catalog page
I made the box using the top part of the rack, threw away (well, actually, saved) the sides
I made another box for some smaller collets, using aluminum for the plate
I'd probably end up doing something closer to the Mahogany R8 collet stand they have
(I got some swiss screw machine collets on ebay, very nice, 1/16 (I think) to 1/2, by 64ths
pah... they get dirty, can't stack stuff on it, hard to move to a shelf, etc
I should take a pic of my boxes
can't stack stuff on it is a feature ;)
not if the entire stack is on a shelf, out of the way
interesting - MSC only carries Lyndex collets in the 16C size
[17:06:53] <jmkasunich> http://home.att.net/~jmkasunich/Pics/collets.jpg
ok - cool
basically like the standard wooden box that some measurement tools come in
but the construction is easy... three slots (table saw), then cut four pieces to length and glue up
(glue up as a closed box, then cut open... make sure to mark which end is the top ;-)
or 3 slots (router), then cut to length (slide compound miter saw), glue ...
yeah, if you have a narrow router bit, and a router table with a fence
check, check :)
something else to consider if you are getting 5C collets
[17:10:40] <jmkasunich> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-7050&PMPXNO=950317&PARTPG=INLMK3
my little table saw is such a pain for dadoing, that I almost gave up on it
err - what is that set, compared to "normal" collets?
I've see collet block sets for $20 on sale (thats how I got mine)
it isn't collets (the capacity note is confusing)
it holds collets
it's not immediately obvious how to use those pictured items
stick a collet in either the square or hex block, using the ring shaped nut to tighten
so you can "easily" make a non-round collet holder, with the closer on it
(or the lever thing, quick release, but I usually use the round nuts)
ok, for holding collets in other things - thanks
then you can do things like mill hex heads on homemade bolts
clamp things in a vise to cross drill on the mill
I just used mine to cut a 1" long piece of 3/4 round rod in half on the cheapo bandsaw
too short to clamp in the vise normally
ah - now that's a sitaution I've run into
that's the problem with really big tools - little stuff is hard to hold
its one of those tools that you don't really think you need, but once you have it, it can be very handy
well, I should go finish the grass
ok. I should figure out why these 41 AVR chips on my desk don't work :(
you want any collets? or are you just gonna buy a set?
I think I'll just buy a set later. thanks
alex_joni is now known as _aj
SWPadnos is now known as __
__ is now known as SWPadnos
_aj is now known as alex_joni
had to change, __ might have come back and ghosted me ;)
SWPadnos: compared to 16 seconds
ok - a doubling is nice
or halving, depending on your perspective
yeah, unfortunately I've now picked all the low-hanging fruit (though I've said that before)
that's ok, if the result is that it's fast now
last night I was wondering if I could pull off named variables somehow
do you have profiler runs that you can post somewhere?
even of the form #[a-z]+
so others who are boneheaded (liek me) about profiling can see where to apply effort
you'd have a map of strings to numbers
not sure how you'd "name" the variables though
are those vars saved between runs?
the numbered variables are, I think
so #37 would be?
I think the name-number mapping would be in the gcode
yes I'm pretty sure #37 is saved forever
the trick is pulling off #argh meaning #37
hmmm, and the parameter file is loaded into an array of doubles?
either that or just have a variable file that can have names in it
that doesn't help subroutines whose vars are passed in #1, #2, #3
SWPadnos: you can use 'kcachegrind' to visualize this profile: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/callgrind.out.17093.bz2
what I mean is that the variables would be in an associative array, rather than a linearly indexed one
ok - thanks
I was picturing specifying the mapping in the beginning of the subroutine (#xpos,#ypos,#zpos,#depth) = $_
so if a subroutine wants a "Zstep" variable, it uses #ZStep instead of #37
and the array is indexeed with "ZStep" instead of the number 37
that would also be cool
right, I understand, but that doesn't solve my particular problem
where my subr is passed 7 things and I want them to have names
you could do sub (#xpos=10,#ypos=11 ...)
I guess I could do #name1 = #1 etc at the beginning
sure could ;)
all your attempts to make actual programming in gcode not suck will fail
give up now and find a nice way to let me write programs in the language of my choice, with calls to the canon interface
if you want to do actual programming, use an actual programming language, and have it spit out g-code
I'd say that the task of defining anything 3D in ASCII is going to suck
hey, anybody need a tapping head?
canterp already does that, but I have nfc how to run it
sold one at CNC Workshop ;)
(got $300 or $350 for it, too :) )
you sold a huge one didn't you?
Tapmatic 90 TC/DC
I'd love one that would work on a smallish drill press
[20:54:58] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4358454&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
thats not the exact one... (it has a jacobs chuck on it)
the ones I saw aren't on the web
but the same basic head
morse 2 taper, fits many 12-16" drill presses
probably suitable for #4 thru maybe 1/4"
actually, the ones I saw were 89.99
a box of em, maybe 6-8
dunno why the aren't on the web (I'm dissapointed, all I jotted down was the number, figured I could get more info later)
[20:56:47] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/260002483869
[20:57:10] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260002483869
the 30x, 30TC/DC and SPD-3 generally go for ~$100 on eBay
* cradek is pretty good at tapping by hand
my purchase: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4354082&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
tapmatics are among the slickest things you can find
jmkasunich: what's it for?
1/4HP 10,000 RPM motor, and high speed spindle, for $150
grinding stuff ;-)
although I have thoughts about making a high speed (for instance PCB) millin spindle with it
how fast can the spindle go?
you could easily make 1:3 pulleys
its designed to do 10,000 and 22,500
cool, 22k would be perfect
* jmkasunich takes apart the motor
bet it's loud
I knew it needed bearings when I bought it (motor, not spindle)
thought they were ball, just drop in new ones
turns out its bronze
musta run it without oil (the oil holes are kinda clogged up)
hm, why not turn new ones?
not out of the question...
measuring things now
shaft is 0.250 nominal, worn to 0.246-0.248 in the bearing area
bearing is worn oval (due to belt side load), 0.251 x 0.258
pretty easy to press out the old bearing, press in a new one
not so easy to fix the shaft
258-246 = a lot
yeah, like I said I knew it needed bearings
thats the pulley end
brush end, shaft is 0.2500
turn the bushing 180 degrees, oil it up and call it good?
replacing the bearing is trivia
jmkasunich: heat it with the tig and add metal ;)
but that will still mean 2 to 4 thou slop
then file it down ;)
anonimasu: I'd like the shaft to remain straight please... no heat
jmkasunich: ah guess you are out of luck
does it have dents for turning between centers on both ends of the shaft? if you make a custom bushing you could just make it a bit smaller.
yeah you know
yes, its center drilled
so make it smaller?
I'd be surprised if you can't buy undersized bushings for that reason
the ideal tool for that would be.... a toolpost grinder!
I can always make undersize bushings, just bore em
the problem is the shaft
its threaded 1/4-<something fine> on the end for a pulley
it has to be smoother than lathe work?
the bearing part should be a mirror
hm, 2 to 4 thou is lots :S
something like 0.02
mirrors are easy, flat mirrors not so much
what kind of lathe do you have?
yeah, I meant flat in ... polar coordinates
a crappy one - chinese 3-in-1
but thats not a major issue
I'd die if my lathe did that
chuck the brush end, run the pulley end on a dead center
runout = 0.0000 with a dead center
I'm down to 0,01mm, with a long workpiece
anonimasu: its not really a bad lathe, just not a hardinge or anything
sure but is your cylinder a cylinder?
not this one
I hate micro machines :)
tapered from 0.246 at the outboard end to 0.248 at the inboard end (of a 3/4" long bearing area)
jepler: if you make a new interpreter that's not gcode I'll be the first to try it
hmm, maybe put a ball bearing on it, using this: http://18.104.22.168/PRODUCTS/680.htm
trick will be to have the bearing centered while the stuff dries
you're going to glue a bearing to the shaft?
"fills gaps to 0.008"
thats exactly what its intended for
[21:20:36] <jmkasunich> http://22.214.171.124/retaining_hi-strength.htm
see the pic?