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[14:16:14] <jepler> cradek: you're right, there's a comment about the accel / 2.0
[14:16:16] <jepler> // honor accel constraint if we happen to make an acute angle
[14:16:16] <jepler> // with the next segment. A dot product test could often
[14:16:16] <jepler> // eliminate this.
[14:16:16] <jepler> if(tc->blend_with_next)
[14:16:18] <jepler> tc->maxaccel /= 2.0;
[14:16:53] <cradek> if I put in a comment, that means I don't have to fix it, right?
[14:19:49] <jepler> hm, I don't see how to fix it
[14:20:35] <cradek> it's tough because you have to decide the accel before you move along the segment the first time
[14:20:40] <jepler> yeah
[14:20:56] <cradek> I think you need one more lookahead
[14:21:22] <cradek> if concave(this,next) || concave(next, next->next) next->accel /= 2
[14:21:35] <cradek> (when you first plan next)
[14:21:44] <jepler> ugh
[14:22:04] <cradek> in that block for "next is being read for the first time"
[14:22:30] <cradek> concave() is trivial, most of the code is written already
[14:23:53] <cradek> um, actually I mean acute()
[14:23:57] <cradek> dot<0
[14:30:39] <jepler> hm, I'm not sure how to write acute() when there's XYZ and ABC motion
[14:30:43] <cradek> there's a boundary problem in my algorithm
[14:30:57] <jepler> also when taking into account that one or both parts can be circles
[14:30:59] <jepler> there is?
[14:31:22] <cradek> what about the first and second segments in the program
[14:31:56] <jepler> you have to /= 2 them
[14:31:58] <jepler> I think
[14:31:59] <cradek> jepler: the start/ending vector stuff in tc.c takes care of that all for you, I already wrote it
[14:32:16] <cradek> I think...?
[14:32:28] <cradek> do they get helix right?
[14:32:47] <jepler> I dunno
[14:32:52] <cradek> looking...
[14:33:25] <jepler> are these functions, or some fields in TC_STRUCT?
[14:33:40] <cradek> no, crap
[14:33:50] <cradek> tcGetStartingUnitVector() etc
[14:40:30] <cradek> but you're right, if you do this, I think you'll get a FE if you have XYZ colinear and an A reversal
[14:40:58] <cradek> you'd have to fix the unit vector helpers
[15:01:28] <cradek> heck if there's an abc move, always do the divide
[15:01:55] <SWPadnos> out of curiosity, why divide in the first place?
[15:02:20] <cradek> SWPadnos: because of the picture I drew on the whiteboard for jepler
[15:02:28] <SWPadnos> oh. that makes perfect sense
[15:02:39] <cradek> g0x0 g0x1 g0x0
[15:03:04] <cradek> as you're nearing x1, the first seg is accelerating at -A, the second seg is accelerating at A in the opposite direction
[15:03:12] <cradek> those add to 2A
[15:03:42] <cradek> ... you violate A constraint anytime you make an acute angle
[15:03:45] <SWPadnos> ok, so for acute angles, you're limiting the total accel for both segments to A - makes sense
[15:03:52] <cradek> right
[15:04:04] <SWPadnos> but the accels shouldn't be additive in the first place, I think
[15:04:33] <cradek> that's just a consequence of the algorithm
[15:04:38] <SWPadnos> right
[15:05:05] <SWPadnos> I suspect that some sort of method of choosing the target speed at the crossover point (which may be the endpoint) would make sense
[15:05:16] <SWPadnos> then each segment deals with getting to or from that target vel
[15:06:39] <cradek> crap, even in just XYZ these unit vector helpers are wrong for helixes.
[15:07:19] <SWPadnos> bummer
[15:08:13] <cradek> they're only used for tolerance calculation
[15:08:30] <cradek> * cradek shivers
[15:09:23] <SWPadnos> well - my mother has a lot of free time these days ...
[15:09:51] <skunkworks> I have to admit that sounds funny. (think alien)
[15:10:43] <cradek> for some reason I can't quite picture how to get a unit vector along a helix
[15:11:30] <cradek> you add some proportion of the circular (call it XY) and some proportion of the "height" (call it Z) and normalize
[15:11:36] <cradek> I think
[15:12:01] <SWPadnos> it's the same as for any other unit vector
[15:12:30] <SWPadnos> dir(vec) / mag(vec)
[15:12:44] <cradek> heh I know that
[15:12:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:12:49] <cradek> it's the dir that's the problem
[15:12:53] <SWPadnos> just not picturing it, I guess
[15:13:18] <cradek> I never was good at geography
[15:13:23] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:13:33] <SWPadnos> geometry always puts my mother into fits as well ;)
[15:15:54] <cradek> I bet you scale by the length projected into XY and the linear (Z) lengths respectively
[15:16:24] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:16:43] <cradek> that's just the cylindrical coordinate parallel to the rectangular method
[15:16:52] <cradek> uh, parallel is not a good word to use there
[15:17:06] <SWPadnos> the circular part and the depth part look like a 2-d vector, aligned parallel to the circular path
[15:17:35] <SWPadnos> so you're spinning a Z-(something) plane around a circle
[15:18:01] <cradek> ok so will you go ahead and write that?
[15:18:07] <cradek> thanks so much, bye
[15:18:14] <SWPadnos> um - see you.
[15:18:21] <SWPadnos> which files do I need to edit? ;)
[15:18:30] <cradek> just tc.c
[15:19:16] <cradek> I was just being a dork again, you know
[15:19:22] <SWPadnos> ok. and why does there need to be a separate unit vector calculator for each type of move?
[15:19:24] <SWPadnos> of course ;)
[15:19:32] <cradek> PmCartesian tcGetStartingUnitVector(TC_STRUCT *tc)
[15:19:36] <cradek> and Ending
[15:20:08] <cradek> I don't understand the question
[15:20:21] <SWPadnos> is there a function like PmCartesian GetNextPointOnThisPath() ?
[15:20:33] <cradek> that's tcGetPos
[15:20:58] <SWPadnos> err - not the next endpoint, but the next place to move to
[15:21:13] <SWPadnos> the next interpolated point, I guess
[15:21:41] <cradek> tcGetPos gives the ongoing points along the segment
[15:21:50] <cradek> still not sure if that's what you're asking
[15:21:56] <SWPadnos> I think it is
[15:22:15] <SWPadnos> and does tcGetPos use these starting and ending unit vector functions?
[15:22:33] <cradek> I was tempted to use GetPos to get the endpoint, and then another point a little from the end, and subtract, but that's only an approximation
[15:22:38] <cradek> no it doesn't
[15:23:25] <cradek> the unit vector functions give the real answer, not an approximation that's a consequence of positional quantization along the segment
[15:23:58] <SWPadnos> ok. I must be missing something (the whole thing maybe), because if you have two PmCartesians Here (the current pos) and There(the next pos), then there's a single function to get the unit vector between the two
[15:24:01] <SWPadnos> ah - ok ;)
[15:25:06] <cradek> the path, vels, accels, are all represented exactly in the motion queue - the necessary quantization only happens at the end when outputting points, I think it's wrong to use it for planning/constraints
[15:25:33] <SWPadnos> agreed - have I mentioned that I haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet? ;)
[15:25:44] <cradek> ok, I'm going for more too, can't hurt
[15:26:02] <SWPadnos> never - in fact, it reduces the risk of cirrhosis of the liver by as much as 80%
[15:26:20] <SWPadnos> (if you drink more than 4 cups per day)
[15:26:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: are you the one most active with regards to lathe development in EMC?
[15:35:58] <cradek> I guess so
[15:36:12] <cradek> I'm not working on it right now, but I "touched it last"
[15:37:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: ok, should I send the list of things that emc may want to add for better lathe functionality?
[15:38:00] <cradek> maybe it should go on the wiki
[15:39:01] <cradek> since I bet others would like to see it/comment
[15:39:25] <SWPadnos> and possibly a mail to the users list as well
[15:39:40] <cradek> definitely
[15:39:56] <SWPadnos> is there a reference to the wiki in the emc manpages?
[15:40:14] <cradek> I don't think so currently
[15:40:26] <SWPadnos> I wonder if that would help people to know it exists?
[15:40:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: ok, should I make a new wiki page?
[15:40:38] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: I think so
[15:40:39] <SWPadnos> assuming they even look at the help
[15:40:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: any idea of a suitable name?
[15:41:09] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Lathe_Code
[15:41:24] <cradek> another appropriate place would be the feature request tracker, but it's so clumsy to use and doesn't encourage collaboration
[15:41:53] <SWPadnos> if it makes sense, then add things to that page. otherwise, make a new page, and add a link to the Lathe_Code page
[15:42:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra> SWPadnos: I think a serpare page would be better, that page is quite big as it is
[15:42:41] <SWPadnos> true.
[15:42:47] <cradek> that page is a bit of a dumping ground
[15:42:57] <SWPadnos> I just searched for lathe, and that one looked reasonable
[15:44:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> maybe a page called: lathe_code_potential_additions ?
[15:46:07] <SWPadnos> how about Advanced_Lathe_Features
[15:47:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I was thinking that keeping the start of the name lathe_code_something_something would make it easier to find in the article index, but that may not matter
[15:48:31] <SWPadnos> the search is on the page text, not the page title
[15:48:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[15:49:20] <SWPadnos> Lathe_Advanced_Features would also work for a while
[16:00:38] <jepler> cradek: if tort.ngc passes I'll check in this acute() change
[16:00:59] <cradek> yay
[16:01:49] <cradek> but won't some helixes still be wrong?
[16:01:54] <skunkworks> you guys are great.
[16:01:54] <cradek> or did you fix it?
[16:02:04] <jepler> no, I didn't fix it, but it hasn't errored yet either
[16:02:52] <cradek> g0x0y0z0; g3x.1y.1i.05j.05z1; g3x0y0i-.05j-.05z0; m2
[16:06:16] <jepler> ignoring this possible helix bug for the moment, instead of acute() it should really be a function that returns a number from 0.5 to 1.0 saying how much of the acceleration can be used
[16:06:38] <jepler> 0.5 for the "opposite directions" case, 1.0 for the "obtuse angle" case, and numbers in between for acute angles
[16:06:43] <jepler> right?
[16:07:17] <cradek> I think yes if you check both ends and use the minimum
[16:09:01] <jepler> is the "number from 0.5 to 1.0" min(1, 1-dot()/2) ?
[16:09:38] <jepler> or something more complexicated
[16:09:43] <cradek> I think that's right
[16:10:23] <cradek> no
[16:10:51] <cradek> the 0<dot<1 case is wrong
[16:11:25] <jepler> maybe I meant min(1, 1+dot()/2)
[16:12:04] <jepler> your helix program doesn't ferror for me
[16:12:07] <jepler> is it supposed to?
[16:12:30] <cradek> yeah I figured it would exceed Z accel
[16:13:09] <cradek> maybe I don't remember how I did accel on helixes
[16:14:42] <cradek> make the .1 and .05 proportionally smaller and change the second one to a g2 for good measure
[16:15:39] <cradek> no not a g2, we want the endpoints to be "colinear" when projected onto XY
[16:16:12] <cradek> maybe you're getting the centripetal accel limiting and it's saving you
[16:16:43] <cradek> I dunno jeff
[16:17:00] <jepler> it sucks when you think there's a bug but you can't get it to trigger
[16:17:06] <cradek> yep
[16:20:20] <jepler> should I make my Z accel very small for this test?
[16:21:41] <jepler> .. still no ferror
[16:35:00] <skunkworks> alex must have been busy - there is a magma update in 6.06
[16:35:14] <skunkworks> today
[17:07:30] <skunkworks> are helix's supposed to be working?
[17:08:55] <skunkworks> nm
[17:18:59] <skunkworks> hey alex - installed your latest kernel today - no issues (update manager)
[17:20:15] <alex_joni> skunkworks: coo.. is that aj4 ?
[17:20:31] <alex_joni> dpkg -l | grep linux-image
[17:28:01] <skunkworks> I don't remember - you want me to run that line?
[17:30:46] <SkunkworksD> alex_joni:
http://pastebin.com/708927
[17:43:18] <alex_joni> SkunkworksD: perfect
[17:49:15] <skunkworks> ready for prime time yet?
[17:49:41] <alex_joni> skunkworks: your call
[17:49:43] <alex_joni> :D
[17:50:10] <skunkworks> I coud do a fresh install to test it
[17:50:18] <alex_joni> it shouldn't be any different
[17:50:30] <alex_joni> I hope cradek will install one these days to test
[17:50:40] <alex_joni> he seems to have a longer history with building these :D
[17:51:14] <skunkworks> what about the people that upgrade from breezy - still an issue?
[17:52:09] <alex_joni> skunkworks: I upgraded a vanilla breezy, and had some issues
[17:52:23] <alex_joni> so I'm not sure what to say..
[17:57:14] <cradek> sorry I've not had much time for emc lately
[17:59:51] <alex_joni> cradek: I understand that.. same here :(
[17:59:56] <alex_joni> and next week I'm in greece :D
[18:08:08] <alex_joni> skunkworks: care to try something out?
[18:08:18] <alex_joni> actually SkunkworksD :)
[18:09:30] <skunkworks> sure
[18:09:33] <skunkworks> whats up
[18:09:42] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.upt.ro/~juve/tempdebs/emc2-artwork-usplash_1.00_i386.deb
[18:15:17] <alex_joni> skunkworks: got it? (it's very small)
[18:15:40] <SkunkworksD> installed I think
[18:15:50] <alex_joni> SkunkworksD: ok, then you need to reboot :D
[18:15:54] <SkunkworksD> reboot - (splash screen I take it)
[18:15:58] <alex_joni> right
[18:16:06] <alex_joni> you should already see it on shutdown
[18:17:05] <skunkworks> funny
[18:17:12] <skunkworks> a little chunky but cute
[18:17:16] <skunkworks> :)
[18:17:48] <skunkworks> now for the ubuntu login screen?
[18:17:58] <alex_joni> if you can make a better one (about 640x300) I'll change it
[18:18:06] <alex_joni> oh, 16 colours PNG
[18:18:33] <SWPadnos> eeeeewwwww - why not use the 224 color logos?
[18:18:44] <SWPadnos> err - splash screens
[18:18:45] <jepler> SWPadnos: it uses vga16 framebuffer
[18:18:51] <SWPadnos> eeeewwwwww :)
[18:18:55] <jepler> oh, for the login screen? forget it.
[18:18:58] <SWPadnos> but that's a good reason
[18:19:07] <jepler> the ubuntu boot splash is 16-color
[18:19:11] <jepler> I don't know about the login screen
[18:19:13] <SWPadnos> dunno - haven't looked
[18:19:23] <SWPadnos> I can't always boot htat machine to a graphical login
[18:24:35] <SWPadnos> has there been an update to XOrg (to 7.1 or something)?
[18:27:17] <alex_joni> not official afaik
[18:27:21] <alex_joni> at least not on dapper :D
[18:27:26] <SWPadnos> ok
[18:27:35] <SWPadnos> still battling the ati driver issues
[19:15:15] <alex_joni> skunkworks: so you had no issues adding the usplash?
[19:15:56] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, got a question on the kernel upgrade
[19:16:14] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: shoot
[19:16:32] <SWPadnos> ok. there's a long question about the kernel modules directory, which I can post if you like
[19:16:41] <alex_joni> ok..
[19:16:48] <cradek> darn, I thought you fixed that
[19:16:58] <SWPadnos> I think it's because both are the same numerical version, and only the -aj# changes
[19:17:00] <alex_joni> I did on the latest
[19:17:10] <SWPadnos> one sec - I'll pastebin it
[19:17:15] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: what version are you installing?
[19:17:50] <alex_joni> pastebin should be fine
[19:18:36] <SWPadnos> htp://pastebin.com/709182
[19:18:39] <SWPadnos> the latest
[19:18:51] <SWPadnos> aj4
[19:19:19] <SWPadnos> http://pastebin.com/709182
[19:19:22] <SWPadnos> there ;)
[19:19:50] <alex_joni> oddd
[19:20:07] <SWPadnos> the same thing happened when I upgraded to -aj3
[19:20:16] <SWPadnos> I just answered Y, sinec I think I know what I'm doing ;)
[19:20:17] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah, that was expected
[19:20:30] <alex_joni> not sure wtf it's still there in aj4
[19:20:58] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:22:08] <SWPadnos> I'm assuming that it's sage to allow the installation to continue, but I was wondering whether all files would get replaced correctly
[19:23:09] <SWPadnos> grrr. not sage, safe
[19:23:56] <skunkworks> got that also - I just answered no
[19:24:05] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:24:35] <cradek> skunkworks: what's the url to your photos of workshop?
[19:24:40] <SWPadnos> that's what I did before, and it didn't add or remove any problems, so Iassumed it was the right answer ;)
[19:25:17] <skunkworks> cradek:
http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/
[19:25:21] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: it is the right answer, but the latest does have silent_modules=YES, so it shouldn't print that message
[19:25:24] <cradek> thanks
[19:25:43] <SWPadnos> alex, there's another error - apparently there's a symlink in the kernel modules package, which points to a nonexistent directory (so it gets removed)
[19:25:59] <SWPadnos> oops - the symlink is in the kernel-image package
[19:26:03] <alex_joni> skunkworks: that's a bug
[19:26:08] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: that's a bug
[19:26:14] <alex_joni> and I notified it to the ubuntu people
[19:26:22] <alex_joni> hint: the symlink doesn't get removed
[19:26:26] <alex_joni> it only says so
[19:26:36] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:26:55] <skunkworks> is it an issue?
[19:27:01] <alex_joni> skunkworks: no
[19:27:05] <skunkworks> other than hard drive space :)
[19:27:15] <alex_joni> a symlink??
[19:27:17] <SWPadnos> actually, the link isn't there after install
[19:27:38] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: which one? /lib/modules.../build ?
[19:27:44] <SWPadnos> so I guess they fixed the bug, it actually does delete the symlink ;)
[19:27:58] <alex_joni> it didn't here
[19:28:04] <alex_joni> are you sure it's not there?
[19:28:07] <SWPadnos> no: /lib/modules/2.6.15-magma/source
[19:28:09] <alex_joni> ls doesn't show it
[19:28:17] <alex_joni> ahh.. source shouldn't matter :D
[19:28:23] <alex_joni> I think?
[19:28:25] <SWPadnos> nope, just another message
[19:28:44] <SWPadnos> though I did apt-get build-dep at some point, so I should have source (I think)
[19:28:53] <alex_joni> no
[19:28:56] <alex_joni> you don't build on source
[19:29:00] <alex_joni> you build on headers
[19:29:01] <SWPadnos> ok. apt-get source ...
[19:29:08] <alex_joni> no, not that either
[19:29:09] <alex_joni> :D
[19:29:22] <SWPadnos> apt-get me the damned source code ;)
[19:29:22] <alex_joni> apt-get install linux-source.. (best guess)
[19:29:29] <alex_joni> right
[19:29:53] <alex_joni> apt-get source gives you something completely different ;)
[19:30:40] <SWPadnos> right - all the stuff to build the .deb?
[19:30:57] <alex_joni> nah, the apt-get source is for building all archs
[19:31:01] <alex_joni> and all debs
[19:31:06] <alex_joni> and lots of other stuff ;)
[19:31:13] <alex_joni> that's the official way to build them kernels
[19:31:23] <alex_joni> at least that's how ubuntu-kernel people do them
[19:31:31] <SWPadnos> ah
[19:31:34] <alex_joni> not that our/my way isn't any good
[19:31:46] <alex_joni> just different (using make-kpkg instead of debuild)
[19:32:32] <SWPadnos> well - let's see if the stupid ATI card can give me a display this time
[19:33:05] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: tweaked make-kpkg for the source link stuff, next kernel should not complain
[19:33:05] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe nofb is a good fix
[19:33:12] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:33:13] <alex_joni> nofb?
[19:33:28] <SWPadnos> yeah - X goes into some wacky mode if I don't do that
[19:33:51] <SWPadnos> it's an ati / fb / dri / drm / X problem of some sort ;)
[19:34:01] <SWPadnos> oh, and maybe AGP/GART thrown in for good measure
[20:04:02] <alex_joni> SWPadnos:
https://launchpad.net/bugs/49167
[20:04:49] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:08:24] <skunkworks> alex_joni: did the guy on the list ever say if the probing worked for him?
[20:10:14] <alex_joni> skunkworks: I think so
[20:10:24] <alex_joni> can't remember for sure though :D
[20:10:47] <skunkworks> sweet
[20:10:58] <skunkworks> too much stuff to try
[20:14:39] <alex_joni> it was Marc van Doornik
[20:14:49] <alex_joni> but he never said if it's working for him or not
[20:15:16] <skunkworks> hm - I guess it would be easy to test
[20:15:30] <alex_joni> I tested with halvcp
[20:15:34] <alex_joni> and it worked ok
[20:16:05] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[20:54:31] <alex_joni> cradek: seems we missed announcing 2.0.1 on the mailing lists :-?
[20:55:01] <cradek> oops
[20:55:25] <alex_joni> can you do that? or should I do it in the morning?
[20:55:29] <alex_joni> off to bed now ;)
[20:55:41] <cradek> I may be away from the computer for the night, I'm just leaving work
[20:55:59] <cradek> you're better at announcements anyway
[20:56:29] <alex_joni> ok, I'll do it first thing tomorrow morning
[20:56:36] <cradek> thanks
[20:56:39] <alex_joni> but I don't agree that I'm better :P
[20:56:48] <alex_joni> just that you know
[20:57:11] <cradek> ok noted
[20:57:15] <cradek> :-)
[20:57:22] <cradek> goodnight
[20:57:33] <alex_joni> thx, have a nice day
[20:57:39] <cradek> thanks