hello from cnc workshop
you got the network working?
I'm on the hotel wireless now, it's OK but not fast
yep, it's working but may still have problems with dhcp, not sure
so are you like, ssh'ed into your home box or something? how come neither of you logged on?
fenn: I leave irssi running in a screen all the time
I like to lull people into believing I'm not here, so I can scroll back and see if they say nasty things about me
lol.. same here ;)
probably too late for you guys though
you guys have fun at the workshop - hopefully see a bunch of you friday. You'll know me - I'm the goofy looking one :)
very silent festers
I'm feeling a little left out :)
[16:35:57] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/festcam.jpg
I spy an osilloscope
just got the first new photo on festcam
we're not happy with its existing location, want to move it so it can see the real activity
how often is it updated? every 60 seconds?
is jmkasunich around?
he was just here
just got this http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/festcam.jpg
damn. I guess I should see if they're teaching a class now
and there he is :)
I guess so
argh. I guess I should check out of this hotel and start the second half of my drive
see you around
or are you not going to the fest?
I will be there friday-sat and sun
I'm headed there now
well, once I check out ;)
I wanted to see how long it took jmk to get there - I'm about 20 miles west of his house
he seems to be a busy little beaver
yeah - in frame, out of frame, in frame, out of frame ... :)
ooooh - onlookers ;)
now he's just showing off ;)
I wish jmkasunich had a speaker so his machine would beep at him when I say jmkasunich
nice lathe ;)
took me about 7 hours
that looks like a jmk SCSI drive on that plastic bin ;)
ok. that's good. were there a lot of construction zones?
no, only the south side of chicago
there were a few, but with nobody working on sunday
cool. also, how far from your place is Westlake? (where I am now)
might be worse for you :-(
right - that was the real question ;)
probably 40 miles, I'm well east of downtown
ok. that should shave 1/2-1 hour then, right?
will people still be there at ~8:00, or will things have moved to the hotel (/dinner)?
at least a half
we'll probably still be here
last night we went to eat at 9:30-10, and cradek and I came back after to look into a network problem
good deal. I gather the internet connection at Roland's is more robust than at the hotel
the hacker types will be here late
heh - ok
cool. I'll still need to remote update that LabView RT controller tonight
I should get going then. see you in 8-10 hours ;)
we're already eating lunch
5 4 3 2 1 0
bigAl_: the #emc channel tends to be very noisy
right. small changes.
that's why there is an #emc-devel for more serious stuff
* alex_joni listens
drop asm/msr.h include and the rdtscll call
use get_cycles in its place
and replace it with?
is get_cycles fast?
it is a wrapper around native asm code
(got burnt using rtai's get_time_ns, which actually took something like 5uS to run)
that sounds promising
get_cycles is portable unlike rdtscll
is get_cycles() available (and returns something other than zero) even if CONFIG_X86_TSC is undefined?
you would need to check the kernel source.
I do ppc mainly.
[19:47:44] <jmkasunich> http://lxr.linux.no/source/include/asm-i386/timex.h#L37
hmm.. it seems to call rdtscll() itself
assuming all the ifdefs line up properly
its kinda at the mercy of the kernel config
time measurement has given me fits on and off for a couple years
which is why I'm reluctant to change it
one attempt resulted in some BDI kernels returning zero all the time
another had 55mS resolution
If cpu_has_tsc, probably set at boot time, it will read the tsc.
I'm open to the idea, but I would only want to do it after I get home, so I can test on all the compile farm boxes
could you submit a tracker at sourceforge to remind me?
The other change is even smaller
tkemc.tcl line 1159. change the default font to courier not 10 point
tkemc fonts isn't something I know about
more accurately, fonts is something I don't know about.... I do low level stuff
I thought there was recent list discussion about that, thougth jepler already applied a fix
but you can get it changed ?
bigAl_: in the HEAD of emc2 development, I've added code to use "courier 10 pitch" if it exists, or "courier" otherwise.
bigAl_: however, I haven't been able to test this on any system besides ubuntu, which has "courier 10 pitch"
jepler: I just ran HEAD, and tkemc barfed.. maybe it's me.. I'll check again
alex_joni: maybe I screwed it up then
jepler: getting an error
this is the change I made: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl.diff?r1=1.30;r2=1.31;f=h
alex_joni: paste it to me or something
alex_joni: on what os?
but .. I tested it after the patch!
you still using sourceforge ?
I certainly hope not
jepler: I don't have anything special in the ini.. maybe that's why?
oh, of course, I changed one little thing after I tested it, and got it wrong..
bigAl_: nope, I already commited loads of stuff from here :)
bigAl_: we moved to a self-hosted server while sourceforge was having problems. there's information about the server on wiki.linuxcvs.org
jepler seems distracted today ;)
he's sitting next to jepler and daveE is standing there talking to both of them
who's in the fest image?
cradek in center, jepler on right, daveE left
or rather, parts of each person
or at least slide a bit down in that chair
here, try this change: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl.diff?r1=1.30;r2=1.32;f=h
it should select the font from your .ini if specified, then "courier 10 pitch" if it exists, then "courier" as a last resort.
jepler: works OK
I will test.
* alex_joni goes away for a while.. bbl
typo on line 1138
fontfamiliy is wrong
OK back from an interesting meeting. You guys have time to talk ?
* alex_joni is still around..
secured some funding for another four weeks
livin on the edge
what do we need to do to get emc2 in to bdi-4 ?
bigAl_: any particular reason for needing that?
They liked the installer and felt it was more polished than Ubuntu
because of the grapics and ads?
and bdi-4 has a cad package we can push (read sell)
bigAl_: it should be fairly easy to generate debs for BDI
you mean synergy?
Yes. we can sell it as a complete package to our client
the ppc stuff has been shelved for another day.
bigAl_: to build a deb is harder. to just build & run emc2 on bdi4 you can use the instructions here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_38_Compile_EMC2
bigAl_: I had done it on the previous bdi - wasn't too bad. (I like ubuntu though)
can't synergy be installed on ubuntu?
jepler: shouldn't 'sudo apt-get build-dep emc2 && fakeroot apt-get -b source emc2' work ?
alex_joni: first problem is hard-coded kernel versions. you have to fix that (to not hard code them), rather than check in a version that builds for one of the bdi kernels. second you have to either uninstall emc1.5 or do something in emc2 about conflicting filenames. and maybe there's something else.
from shortly looking at paul's emc2 deb I saw that he tagged it as conflicting with emc
so I guess that takes care of the later part
re: hard-coded kernels. paul seems to be doing the same thing (at least for the modules.. I mean you still need them compiled for a certain version, or am I missing anything?)
* jepler shrugs
bash: cd ..: command not found
Yet you have a deb for Ubuntu, so why should it be harder ?
* jmkasunich doesn't know if he's coming or going
OK, so a deb is not hard, how about getting it included on the CD ?
bigAl_: that might be a problem or not, depending on the mood of the BDI maintainer
Would the offer of money help to get this going ?
he's not exactly known for his good temper
bigAl_: I would ask nicely first, if I were you
bigAl_: you could always build your own CD though..
It looks like this guy knows what he is doing so there seems little point in duplicating his work
bigAl_: the bdi installer is all opensource (anaconda is gpl, for instance) .. just ask paul for the source.
Do you have a full name and email address ?
that's true, you should be able to add some packages to it if you like, since it's gpl
*drama alert* *bweeeoop*
From: Paul <email@example.com>
I think is name is Paul Corner.
he's in the UK
Would 5K be enough to get the ball rolling on this ?
I have no idea what paul would want
but giving away 5k like that sure seems rather silly
give 5k to paul because paul screwed up the emc2 package?
* fenn boggles at the concept
The emc2 package is "screwed up" ?
bigAl_: paul included an emc2 package on the latest bdi, yet it's not done quite right, and it's not the release version, but rather some random CVS snapshot
bigAl_: paul made one emc2 package for bdi. he did not pick a released version, but some random version from our CVS. we don't know what other problems there might be, because I don't think anyone here ever tried it.
he also made it sound scary and dangerous to try it, as though his real motive wasn't to encourage people to use emc2, but rather the opposite.
My first reaction o this is "jeez, just who is in charge of this project.", the second, "don't you guys ever sit down and have a sensible discussion"
bigAl_: we tried so many times, eventually we gave up
the friction between paul_c and everyone else is about the only blemish on an otherwise cooperative effort
oh, maybe I should say that for myself..
alex_joni: you may say it for me too
bigAl_: somewhere in the past we just said that it's too much time and nerve consuming to try to debate it, so we're just going our own way, and wish paul & his project all the best
jepler: may I say that for you too? :-D
OK, so you think I will be wasting money on emc2 ?
that's an odd question
emc2 is OpenSourceSoftware, and by definition free of charge
if you feel bery strong about having it on the BDI, just ask Paul to do that, and see what his answer is
We just want something that is easy to install, and if it looks pretty in the process, even better.
We also need a single point of contact with the group developing the code.
well, if you want emc2 then probably paul is a bad choice as the single point of contact
bigAl_: we have a few mailing lists you probably are aware (users, developers, board)
wasn't the board supposed to function as a single point of contact for this exact sort of situation?
bigAl_: if you make contact with paul and get the source to the anaconda installer, please let me know. I'm Jeff Epler <firstname.lastname@example.org>
fenn: the board is happy to answer any requests it gets
darn .. speaking for others again..
fenn: I am happy to answer any request received as a board-member
i nominate alex_joni as PR representative
three board members (alex, cradek, and myself) are watching this conversation
another is in the next room
and the fifth is expected here later this week
a couple days ago alex/jepler were talking about a semi-custom distro, basically Ubuntu with the emc2 packages already in it
Are the mailing lists archived somewhere ?
it really wouldnt be very difficult to customize it with pretty pictures during the installation
URL in a sec
[23:09:45] <alex_joni> http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=6744
fenn - If you can do that in two weeks
jmkasunich: that's the second time I see that the Archives don't show up :(
is there anything sourceforge is doing right lately?
Thanks alex_joni. I will look over the last few months and try to get a picture.
bigAl_: right now it seems the archive is gone ..
this happened last week to, but it came back eventually
bigAl_: there are lots of IRC logs to read if you care
bigAl_: also substitute /emcdevel/ with /emc/ to get the other channels logs
the whole archive isnt gone, just the last 10 days or so
fenn: doesn't show at all here..
emc-users (not yet archived)
works from my home IP but not from sdf.lonestar.org
no, they just turned back on
So the board is the main point of contact for emc ?
bigAl_: for emc & emc2 yes
we're just not a point of contact for BDI & the customized emc on it, although we can accept email regarding that and just send it further on
OK. So will one of you contact this paul guy and see if he is interested ?
could you summarize what you want?
emc2, cad, support packages, easy to use installer
define support packages?
There will be a requirement for some additional educational packages
along with file sharing
We have a modest budget for this, exact figures to be negotiated.
btw I heard from another person here at cnc-workshop that the makers of synergy suggested he switch from bdi4 to fc4 for stability.
is websys there at the workshop?
i'm sure they'd be interested
fenn: I don't know. this was dave-e talking.
websys is a commercial company I suppose their eyes light up when there are $$s
they were there last year
Looks like Synergy will run on any number of distributions
bigAl_: I really suggest you contacting paul directly (either by direct email or on the bdi4emc mailing list), and this isn't because I have something against writing him
but you guys look like you support Debian bases.
I don't see websys in the workshop information packet, but that doesn't mean they're not here.
what do you mean "debian bases"? We create a .deb package of emc2 but it's intended for use only on ubuntu breezy.
jepler: look for WeberSys, websys is bob's nick
just stick your head out the door yelling "bob? bob schuppel" :)
he's over in #emc, but idle for 7 days :)
short-ish guy with dark hair
well, i'll tell him if i see him
I'm going to be late.
not sure exactly what i'll tell him though :)
um.. money, distro, pretty pictures
engineers need specifications, dammit!
why is it OSS seems to fall apart as soon as money enters the picture?
it should be the other way around
what falls apart?
the ability to get anything done
instead of worrying about petty drama
i feel like the board is hesitant to accept money because they think it will destroy their credibility
or the confidence in your product
like.. woah, i dont know if i can supply a product someone's willing to pay for
we already do that.. supply a product people would be willing to pay for
at least that's how I feel about it
you guys were just a couple days ago working on exactly what he was talking about
or what i was talking about at least
ubuntu+emc2 on one cd
ah.. right, it's working as far as I've heard
and if you feel like doing it yourself, I included the instructions too
* fenn downloads synergy to test on ubuntu
but be warned.. it's not an easy process
synergy should be safe..
it does everything in /usr/webersys/
probably not the debian way.. but it's very predictable :D
2 weeks isnt really enough time to make a reliable distro
bash: dammi ;-): wrong parameters