#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-05-11

[00:00:18] <SWPadnos> hiya Ray
[00:09:17] <fenn> SWPadnos: i dont think you can
[00:09:58] <SWPadnos> I think it does work, but I'm not sure if the result is in radians/sec^2 or revolutions/sec^2
[00:10:10] <SWPadnos> the units are correct - 1/s^2
[00:10:27] <fenn> i think you need a 1/2 in there somewhere
[00:10:54] <cradek> jepler: sure does
[00:11:03] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I'm looking for V, not position, so the 1/2 At^2 doesn't apply
[00:11:06] <rayh> Hi guys
[00:11:06] <cradek> jepler: I have some originals here if you want one
[00:11:20] <SWPadnos> hi rayh
[00:11:40] <cradek> hi ray
[00:11:42] <rayh> wah! a t1 is a nice connection.
[00:11:49] <SWPadnos> you can probably answer my question (posed just minutes before you connected)
[00:11:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:11:54] <cradek> a t1 is dog slow
[00:11:56] <SWPadnos> rayh@smithy - cool ;)
[00:12:18] <SWPadnos> yeah - 75% of my DSL, and only 1/4 the speed of reasonable cable
[00:12:19] <cradek> what are you doing playing at smithy?
[00:12:42] <rayh> Got a couple days of meetings then on to fest.
[00:13:06] <jepler> cradek: I think I may go to best buy to buy some new CDs. after all, the next step involves burning more of them.
[00:13:11] <fenn> SWPadnos: ok i think you're right
[00:13:27] <cradek> jepler: that's a good point
[00:13:37] <rayh> I have some blanks but will also get a spool of 100 or so.
[00:13:41] <jepler> cradek: thanks for the offer though
[00:13:49] <SWPadnos> ok. google didn't really turn up much for me
[00:13:52] <rayh> I have envelopes for them.
[00:13:59] <rayh> what was the question
[00:14:25] <SWPadnos> can you get motor acceleration (unloaded) by dividing torque by inertia?
[00:14:34] <SWPadnos> and if so, are the units rads/sec or revs/sec
[00:14:41] <SWPadnos> oops - per sec^2
[00:14:54] <jepler> rayh: I see that you added a list of packages to one of the wiki pages (Installing EMC2). How did you find that list of packages?
[00:15:36] <rayh> I unpacked the emc2 deb and unpacked the conf package there then read the file.
[00:15:54] <rayh> seems like there ought to be some software that does that.
[00:16:00] <jepler> since I think there will be plenty of room on the CD, I want to add the packages needed for emc2 development too.
[00:16:12] <cradek> that's a great idea
[00:16:19] <rayh> I meant to add the stuff for both axis and a build but ran out of time.
[00:16:31] <rayh> Exactly.
[00:16:35] <rayh> very good plan.
[00:17:08] <cradek> and all our new pdfs?
[00:17:21] <rayh> You bet, as long as there is room.
[00:17:26] <jepler> rayh: cdroms are big
[00:17:31] <rayh> should be plenty.
[00:17:36] <cradek> hmm I wonder if you can put non-apt stuff on a cdrom that you intend to use with apt-cdrom
[00:17:48] <jepler> cradek: surely you can
[00:17:51] <jepler> </optimist>
[00:17:57] <jepler> OK, off I go to best bu
[00:17:57] <jepler> y
[00:17:58] <SWPadnos> should be able to - boot discs have more stuff than a repository
[00:18:07] <rayh> I believe so as long as they are not in the debs directory.
[00:18:40] <jepler> another non-.deb idea I had was to include anonymous CVS checkouts, but maybe that's silly
[00:18:55] <jepler> is tar xzvf; cvs update any better than cvs co? will it be much faster for any length of time?
[00:19:14] <SWPadnos> it may lower the bar a bit too far ...
[00:19:20] <fenn> * fenn snickers
[00:19:23] <SWPadnos> it's definitely faster for those on dialup though
[00:19:39] <jepler> SWPadnos: I want the bar as low as possible
[00:19:48] <cradek> I doubt that's worth the added complexity
[00:19:49] <rayh> Yes an anon would be much faster.
[00:19:51] <SWPadnos> not necessarily for dev purposes
[00:20:59] <jepler> I'm off to best buy. do any of you need anything? a new PC, maybe?
[00:21:19] <rayh> Sure get me a couple of screamers.
[00:21:29] <cradek> a laptop for me
[00:21:33] <rayh> You buying?
[00:21:35] <SWPadnos> if they had Opterons, I'd bite ;)
[00:22:12] <SWPadnos> I suppose a nice plasma screen would do though. I can pick it up at Fest
[00:22:14] <rayh> SWPadnos, I don't know the answer to your question.
[00:22:19] <SWPadnos> ok.
[00:22:23] <jepler> OK, I'll take a shopping list
[00:22:35] <fenn> i could use some cannon fodder
[00:22:45] <SWPadnos> I had noticed the units of torque (in-lb) and inertia (in-lb-sec^2), and figured I'd get 1/s^2 by dividing ...
[00:22:48] <fenn> do they make motherboards with 2 parports?
[00:23:03] <cradek> fenn: I learned in physics class that if the units work out, it's probably right
[00:23:06] <SWPadnos> there are embedded boards with 2 parports, but not at Best Buy
[00:23:14] <SWPadnos> that's what I learned as well
[00:23:36] <SWPadnos> stoichiometry works
[00:24:26] <fenn> rayh: think i could ship my digikey/jameco order to roland's place? i think i'm running out of time
[00:25:00] <rayh> Certainly, just ask jameco to mark attention your name and EMC on it
[00:25:10] <rayh> and roland will put it in our area.
[00:25:19] <fenn> ok good
[00:25:53] <rayh> Glad to hear that you are going to be there again.
[00:26:11] <fenn> looks like it's gonna be raining all week, i hope i get a chance to cast all my parts
[00:26:55] <rayh> yuck. I hope your forcasting is good for s&%t.
[00:27:53] <fenn> i meant this week
[00:28:11] <rayh> Oh. Right. It's raining here now.
[00:28:18] <cradek> we got a little today
[00:28:25] <rayh> Ann Arbor, MI for those that don't know smithy.
[00:28:39] <cradek> I hear that's a nice place, I've been close but never visited
[00:29:00] <rayh> It's okay if you like college towns.
[00:29:14] <cradek> yeah, I live in one...
[00:29:21] <rayh> You're lincoln right.
[00:29:24] <cradek> right
[00:29:36] <rayh> great pizza parlor there years ago.
[00:29:43] <cradek> which?
[00:29:49] <rayh> forgot the name.
[00:30:01] <cradek> not valentino's I hope
[00:30:22] <rayh> wife's sister lived there in the late sixties.
[00:30:28] <cradek> that's our "famous" local joint but I think it's not too great
[00:30:46] <rayh> valentino sounds right. must have gone down hill.
[00:30:49] <cradek> I think Lincoln is a nice place.
[00:30:50] <rayh> most do.
[00:31:01] <fenn> noaa thinks it's going to rain all next week too
[00:31:02] <rayh> I liked it.
[00:31:08] <fenn> especially western illinois
[00:31:32] <fenn> glad i got that swap meet table so i can sleep on it :P
[00:31:35] <rayh> Roland has two tents lined up this year. Same size each
[00:32:13] <rayh> You'll be sleeping with Boris if he knows where you are.
[00:33:16] <rayh> Boris is the very loud black cat.
[00:33:34] <rayh> Gotta run. see you guys in a few days.
[02:08:07] <jepler> cradek: while doing this fresh Ubuntu install, I noticed while following your ubuntu instructions that the browser right-click menu item is "Save link as..." and it saved in Home, not Desktop, by default.
[02:08:46] <cradek> pretty sure the instructions say to click it, not right-click it
[02:09:14] <cradek> somehow it knows to prompt when you left click
[02:09:23] <jepler> oh, you're right. it does. I read "right click" somehow.
[02:09:50] <jepler> I think I automatically right-click things that I want to download, lest the browser try treating it as text
[02:09:56] <cradek> me too
[02:10:02] <cradek> did you get working cds?
[02:10:10] <jepler> I got a working install CD
[02:10:25] <cradek> do you think your media was just bad? old?
[02:10:37] <jepler> that's my theory. I bought those media a couple years ago.
[02:11:40] <cradek> I don't know if those have a shelf life, they might. glad it's not your laptop.
[02:12:10] <jepler> well there's all the claims that a written CD will not last. if that's true, it's easy to imagine an unwritten CD might have the same problem.
[02:12:26] <cradek> right
[02:12:31] <cradek> that's scary
[02:12:42] <jepler> man there are a lot of packages to download
[02:13:02] <fenn> bloat bloat bloat
[02:13:08] <cradek> yeah there are a ton of updates by now, it's been a year
[02:13:22] <jepler> I skipped doing the updates
[02:13:32] <cradek> oh you mean there are a lot for emc?
[02:13:36] <jepler> I suppose there's no reason I can't put them on this disk as long as there's room
[02:13:40] <fenn> can you add sshd and nano?
[02:13:56] <jepler> fenn: those aren't on the ubuntu CD?
[02:14:08] <cradek> that's true - it would be really nice to have a fully updated system
[02:14:09] <fenn> not in the default install at least
[02:14:20] <cradek> when you apt-cdrom it, I bet they will just show up as available updates
[02:14:26] <jepler> cradek: for emc, not so much. but next I did kernel-source, and that was nearly 100 megs. Now i'm doing build-dep and that's another 40 megs.
[02:14:49] <jepler> (well, the kernel-source step included compilers and stuff too)
[02:15:07] <cradek> yeah there are no compilers at all by default
[02:15:23] <jepler> oh, I also noticed that it didn't install your updater
[02:15:30] <jepler> do you know the incantation to force it to? Should I use it?
[02:15:46] <cradek> don't bother. they have released an updated updater since I did that one
[02:16:09] <jepler> 64 megs of "apt-get upgrade"
[02:16:10] <fenn> oo could you include avr-gcc and friends? :)
[02:16:13] <cradek> it was nice while it lasted.
[02:16:43] <cradek> fenn: this is just for people to be able to install emc without a net connection!
[02:17:14] <jepler> or with a dialup connection
[02:17:34] <cradek> yeah, what an improvement
[02:20:31] <jepler> fenn: I appreciate your ideas, but what I want to avoid here is becoming a gatekeeper for an "ubuntu plus geekiniess" distribution. I want to stick to updates to the emc2 default install, plus emc2 and axis, plus stuff to rebuild emc2 and axis.
[02:22:19] <jepler> the day would soon come when I had to choose between adding ARM or AVR or PIC development tools, and then I'd have to piss somebody off
[02:22:32] <jepler> sksk
[02:23:21] <fenn> * fenn sighs
[02:23:22] <jepler> cradek: any packages I should "apt-get source" besides emc2 and emc2-axis?
[02:23:33] <fenn> maybe some day there will be a "linux for geeks" distro :P
[02:23:45] <jepler> some day there will be. that day was about 1994.
[02:24:01] <jepler> er, I mean, some day there was...
[02:24:02] <cradek> jepler: not afaic
[02:24:37] <jepler> it's too bad there weren't two spare partitions on this machine. I'll have to blow away this install to test the CD
[02:24:47] <jepler> and if I got it wrong .. ouch
[02:24:55] <cradek> you should have let me loan you a disk or two
[02:24:59] <fenn> no spare HD's around?
[02:25:16] <jepler> fenn: they've all got stuff on them .. if only I could figure out if it was important stuff, or just stuff
[02:25:51] <jepler> cradek: where are the docs I should include?
[02:26:03] <cradek> good question
[02:26:45] <cradek> we already have hal-intro
[02:26:54] <fenn> would including some howto's from tldp.org be a bad idea? like "how to set up your internet connection"
[02:27:44] <fenn> maybe thats not such a problem anymore, i know i had to read a lot of stuff to get everything working the first time
[02:28:29] <cradek> linuxcnc.org/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf
[02:28:44] <cradek> linuxcnc.org/EMC2_Code_Notes.pdf
[02:29:21] <cradek> Code_Notes is barely for users, but it documents the homing setups and I've pointed users to it for that
[02:29:41] <jepler> OK
[02:29:47] <jepler> I'll call this "good enough" for a first try
[02:29:47] <cradek> I haven't looked at User_Manual but it looks like it's new
[02:29:56] <fenn> guess homing info should be moved to integrator.pdf
[02:29:56] <jepler> yeah it's got a May 4 date
[02:30:05] <jepler> it doesn't have the axis portions, unfortuantely.
[02:30:25] <cradek> I can install a new one on linuxcnc.org if you know how to generate it
[02:31:01] <jepler> don't worry about it
[02:31:05] <cradek> ok
[02:31:09] <jepler> the first cd will fail anyway
[02:31:14] <cradek> of course
[02:32:41] <skunkworks> ubuntu was a dream to get emc2 working compared to the bdi's
[02:33:29] <cradek> bdi is not made with emc2 in mind - different goals
[02:34:21] <skunkworks> but it was all there was when I first got interested.
[02:34:55] <skunkworks> emc1 wasn't doing it for me :)
[02:35:12] <jepler> what was wrong with emc1?
[02:35:39] <jepler> I mean, emc2 has some neat things, but emc1 seemed pretty adequate when I first became aware of it.
[02:36:30] <skunkworks> it has been a while now - but there was issues with accelleration and pulse train that was fixed with emc2 - after some nudging. Plus axis.
[02:37:00] <cradek> emc1 (not sure about emc4bdi) still has big problems with axes of different units (rotary/linear)
[02:37:17] <fenn> is there an Integrator.pdf on linuxcnc.org?
[02:37:29] <cradek> not in the root
[02:37:54] <fenn> someting i can link to from "Documentation"
[02:38:10] <skunkworks> Ok I am a little too tipsy for these conversations. time for bed. take it easy
[02:38:48] <cradek> also I could never get the fake pid used for steppers to work as well as stepgen
[02:39:59] <skunkworks> as much as I played with emc1 - emc2 with all its warts - just ran better.
[02:40:14] <skunkworks> but that is my opinion
[02:40:34] <cradek> and we've fixed most of the warts now?
[02:41:13] <skunkworks> yes :) and I have only scratched the surface of it.
[02:41:44] <cradek> I'm glad to hear you think that
[02:41:54] <cradek> I think 2.0.0 is a great release, the best emc ever
[02:42:07] <fenn> i should hope so :)
[02:42:14] <skunkworks> I am getting a warm fuzzy thinking about how much it has improve from when I started playing with it.
[02:43:36] <cradek> I think I first tried emc(1) in Apr 2004
[02:43:46] <cradek> and it's an awful lot better today.
[02:44:49] <skunkworks> I had played with it a long time ago - and it didn't really like me that well. :)
[02:45:13] <cradek> oh I bet it felt neutrally about you
[02:45:35] <skunkworks> it didn't seem to care either way
[02:45:41] <cradek> yeah.
[02:46:09] <skunkworks> I was looking for package with some sort of read ahead - that turbocnc didn't have
[02:46:28] <skunkworks> but it didn't agrea with me.
[02:46:33] <cradek> I also came from software that had no blending
[02:47:07] <cradek> worked surprisingly well, but it was NOT polished software, and was not open source.
[02:47:42] <jepler> goodnight folks. I guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow to try this CD out
[02:47:50] <fenn> * fenn too
[02:47:56] <cradek> goodnight
[02:51:24] <jmkasunich> hi
[02:51:47] <cradek> hi again
[02:52:12] <jmkasunich> just got back from visiting friends, gonna go to be at a reasonable hour tonight
[02:52:23] <cradek> sounds smart
[02:52:32] <cradek> with your new IP backups are flowing again
[02:52:42] <cradek> you'll have to get dyndns working sometime
[02:52:45] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:53:12] <jmkasunich> why does the new IP break it? I thought that cvs2 was pulling them from cvs1?
[02:53:25] <cradek> no, it's the other way around, but you make a good point
[02:53:35] <cradek> that's an easy fix isn't it
[02:53:50] <cradek> duh even
[02:54:00] <jmkasunich> I have no idea whether its easy or not
[02:54:44] <cradek> well it's going for now, too many things to do with next week coming up
[02:54:55] <jmkasunich> agreed
[02:55:02] <cradek> I am SO GLAD we did the cvs move when we did, after reading the SF status and bug trackers today
[02:55:19] <cradek> because otherwise I'd be working on it tonight, and tomorrow ...
[02:55:25] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:55:48] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: I was wondering if the pid calculation in emc2 is series or parralell - if that makes sense - and I am just learning about it.
[02:55:58] <cradek> as it is, it's all settled, which is a great relief
[02:56:24] <jmkasunich> skunkworks: not sure I know what you mean by series/parallel
[02:56:40] <jmkasunich> all the terms (P, I, D, FF, etc) are summed at the output
[02:56:46] <jmkasunich> I guess that makes it parallel?
[02:56:59] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, the terms are independent, so I think parallel by your definition
[02:57:00] <jmkasunich> theres a diagram in Hal_Intro that shows the signal flow thru the PID block
[02:57:38] <skunkworks> does each of the P-I-D effect one another - or are the p-i-d values independent - one does not effect the other
[02:57:49] <skunkworks> ok
[02:58:19] <SWPadnos> changing the P term has no effect on D, but all of the terms are summed at the end, as jmkasunich said
[02:59:16] <skunkworks> so if I read that right it is parallel.
[02:59:30] <skunkworks> (I am just learning
[02:59:32] <skunkworks> )
[02:59:48] <jmkasunich> http://linuxcnc.org/Hal_Introduction.pdf page 48
[02:59:57] <jmkasunich> has a diagram thats worth at least a thousand words
[03:01:35] <jmkasunich> bedtime for me
[03:01:36] <skunkworks> Thank you - serial from what I understand - each calculation feed the next - with is not what I see there.
[03:01:40] <skunkworks> same here.
[03:02:04] <skunkworks> which
[03:02:49] <skunkworks> my portable should be dead soon.
[03:03:15] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: one more thing - ever thought about some sort of auto pid tuning?
[03:06:36] <jmkasunich> a little
[03:07:12] <skunkworks> it sounds like something was started a while ago and then lost. - Just thinking out loud.
[03:07:12] <jmkasunich> it could be a user space program, either capture data or use scope, "look" at waveforms, use setp to make changes
[03:07:29] <jmkasunich> definitely non-trivial to implement
[03:07:36] <jmkasunich> now I'm really going to bed
[03:07:39] <skunkworks> smop?
[03:07:46] <skunkworks> :) night
[03:08:52] <skunkworks> off to bed alos. (acutally already in bed) ;)
[12:06:15] <jepler> last night I successfully got ubuntu to install some packages from a cdrom I made. however, it gave warnings about being unable to verify the integrity of the packages.
[12:06:36] <jepler> next I'll do a fresh install and see if the packages are enough to install emc2 without a network
[12:06:49] <jepler> then I'll figure out what the problem is with verifying the packages
[12:11:49] <alex_joni> jepler: you probably need to sign them, or add the gpg key to your local ubuntu
[12:12:07] <alex_joni> I know cradek had to do that for the emc2 packets
[12:18:09] <SkunkWorks> logger_devel: bookmark
[12:18:09] <SkunkWorks> See
[12:23:57] <jepler> alex_joni: I'd followed cradek's directions, so I had his gpg key in my apt.
[12:24:26] <alex_joni> well, maybe some packets you inlcuded used some strange key which you didn't have
[12:24:27] <jepler> alex_joni: but it seems to me cradek said something about signing the repository itself .. maybe he knows what the deal is
[12:24:36] <jepler> the packages are either from ubuntu or from cradek
[12:24:39] <alex_joni> oh.. right.. I'm clueless too
[12:27:05] <jepler> unfortunately I didn't save the actual message
[12:27:23] <alex_joni> bummer.. bet he'll wake up soon
[12:29:04] <jepler> the CD is about half full. If I understand what I did, it has all the additional packages needed to run & build emc2 and emc2-axis, and all the updates for the base packages, source for emc2 and emc2-axis, and some .pdf documentation
[12:29:19] <alex_joni> cool, did you put the latest docs?
[12:29:23] <alex_joni> e.g. from CVS?
[12:29:39] <jepler> cradek found me some website URLs
[12:29:49] <alex_joni> linuxcnc.org, yeah I've seen
[12:29:51] <SkunkWorks> so this is sort of a ubuntu bdi?
[12:29:53] <jepler> 21:28:50 <cradek> linuxcnc.org/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf
[12:29:53] <jepler> 21:29:05 <cradek> linuxcnc.org/EMC2_Code_Notes.pdf
[12:29:57] <alex_joni> those are a few days (a week old)
[12:30:14] <alex_joni> jepler: if you get the hang of this.. will you try and make another cd?
[12:30:31] <jepler> SkunkWorks: at fest we want to be able to give out the Ubuntu 5.10 install CD, and an additional CD with everything else needed to run emc2
[12:30:48] <jepler> SkunkWorks: for people with dialup or other slow connections, and also just a way to put stuff into their hands
[12:30:51] <alex_joni> I was thinking of attempting this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
[12:30:57] <SkunkWorks> jepler: neat idea.
[12:31:12] <SkunkWorks> Nice work
[12:31:16] <jepler> alex_joni: I looked at that. I just couldn't figure out how to replace the kernel. The process of adding packages was fairly easy, though.
[12:31:33] <jepler> SkunkWorks: the idea isn't mine--it's cradek's or ray's, I think.
[12:31:34] <alex_joni> wonder if apt-get install wouldn't do the trick
[12:31:39] <alex_joni> once you are chrooted
[12:31:50] <jepler> alex_joni: you can't change kernel once you're booted!
[12:32:00] <alex_joni> no, before making the CD I mean
[12:32:22] <alex_joni> or maybe I missed a step..
[12:32:22] <jepler> it's some very complicated system involving a "udeb" which is a kernel module or collection of kernel modules
[12:32:31] <jepler> I couldn't figure it out and there's little/no documentation
[12:33:05] <alex_joni> "To do the customizations we mount the now uncompressed filesystem image, use chroot to do our modifications and then start putting everything back together again."
[12:33:24] <alex_joni> I assumed that is true for the kernel too, but now that you mention it I remember you bitching about it a while ago ;)
[12:34:27] <jepler> I would be thrilled to have a live emc2 but I felt like I hit a brick wall at replacing the kernel
[12:35:59] <alex_joni> guess I'll give it a try then ;) maybe something good will come out of this
[12:36:28] <jepler> please be my guest
[12:36:44] <jepler> by the way, when the documentation says you have to have enough ram+swap to store several CD images, I know it's hard to believe, but it seems to be true.
[12:37:11] <jepler> to avoid taking extra disk space at one step (when creating a compressed filesystem image) it holds everything in RAM instead
[12:38:26] <jepler> bbl
[12:42:59] <alex_joni> ok, thanks for the warning.. I'm just setting up 3G swap
[12:49:26] <alex_joni> cool, found a close mirror :)
[12:49:32] <alex_joni> getting about 2MB/sec
[12:53:41] <SkunkWorks> 2MB or 2mb?
[12:59:09] <alex_joni> 2MB
[13:00:10] <SkunkWorks> wow - that should take a few minutes
[13:00:58] <alex_joni> it did .. about 4
[13:01:36] <SkunkWorks> what kind of connection is that?
[13:08:12] <SkunkWorks> I'm happy with my 1.5mbs :)
[13:09:56] <alex_joni> heh, this is a 512kbps :D
[13:10:16] <alex_joni> but only for internet, the local WAN (intranet) isn't limited (fiber 100Mbit)
[13:10:27] <alex_joni> and it seems some directions fall into that category ;)
[13:49:17] <alex_joni> s/directions/routes/
[15:15:09] <alex_joni> hm... seems the iso is done.. wonder if it will boot
[15:21:51] <SkunkWorks> Trying to make a live ubuntu?
[15:22:29] <alex_joni> yeah
[15:22:57] <alex_joni> but I'm at home now (1 Mbit), and the iso is at work.. so it'll take a while
[15:23:30] <alex_joni> ~1.5h
[15:29:09] <SkunkWorks> I can ususally do an iso in about an hour at home
[15:29:14] <SkunkWorks> on a good day
[15:29:37] <SkunkWorks> here at work it takes a half a day or more :)
[15:29:39] <alex_joni> sounds about right (1Mbit -> 1.5h, 1.5Mbit -> 1h) ;)
[15:29:45] <SkunkWorks> :)
[15:34:30] <alex_joni> humm.. seems someone else is interested in my tripodkins
[15:34:54] <alex_joni> the problem is.. wth are they :)
[15:39:29] <SkunkWorks> did just sense this? Quick to the emc2-mobile..
[15:40:31] <alex_joni> sorry?
[15:41:13] <cradek> http://www.engrish.com/image/engrish/grammar-crisis-room.jpg
[15:41:46] <SkunkWorks> The way you said it - it seemed like you sensed that someone was interested.
[15:42:07] <SkunkWorks> and yes - I am not known for my spelling or grammar :)
[15:42:24] <alex_joni> same here ;)
[15:42:26] <alex_joni> hi chris
[15:42:41] <cradek> hi
[15:42:47] <alex_joni> busy day?
[15:43:12] <cradek> yes so far
[15:43:14] <SkunkWorks> I have been helping alex all morning with the ubuntu live cd. Hard work
[15:43:40] <cradek> have you guys had any luck replacing the kernel?
[15:44:10] <alex_joni> cradek: apt-get seems to have removed the old one and installed the new one inside the chroot
[15:44:16] <alex_joni> wonder if it's that easy
[15:44:36] <alex_joni> probably not..
[15:44:42] <cradek> yeah probably not.
[15:44:53] <cradek> but it sounds like the first step to try.
[15:45:16] <alex_joni> people in #ubuntu pointed me at dfsbuild
[15:45:49] <alex_joni> debian from scratch build tool
[15:46:29] <cradek> interesting
[15:46:42] <alex_joni> some tool to build cd's
[15:46:47] <alex_joni> including live-cd's
[15:47:22] <alex_joni> I looked at it, and you need to provide lists of packages that should go on it.. (seems like a few weeks effort to get right)
[15:58:36] <alex_joni> I probably get a certificate that I'm still studying, and then they leave me alone for a while
[15:58:59] <alex_joni> bet that didn't make any sense...
[16:06:21] <SkunkWorks> :)
[17:53:50] <alex_joni> heh, the good news is the ubuntu-live cd booted, and it's got emc2 & AXIS on it
[17:54:12] <alex_joni> the bad news is that it still uses 2.6.12-9-386, so emc2 won't run
[17:57:02] <SWPadnos> there ought to be a different method of replacing the boot kernel. when you do the chroot stuff, are you in the boot part of the CD, or the "data" part?
[17:59:25] <alex_joni> data part
[17:59:33] <alex_joni> the kernel is in some kind of udeb
[18:04:48] <SWPadnos> udeb?
[18:07:33] <alex_joni> odd package
[18:08:06] <BallardHill> motd
[18:08:52] <alex_joni> todays message is 'the $§&/"(&$"/§$§" 432
[18:10:18] <alex_joni> huh.. that scared him away?
[18:17:52] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:18:34] <SWPadnos> damned labview. I may have to miss the first day or two of CNC workshop. grrr
[18:34:51] <alex_joni> ouch
[18:47:42] <alex_joni> cradek: did you make an initrd to go with the kernel?
[18:51:49] <cradek> make-kpkg deals with that kind of thing, I didn't do anything special
[18:52:25] <alex_joni> ok.. I think I'll have to add the kernel myself to the cd
[18:52:45] <alex_joni> although as it is now, you can probably use it to install a working ubuntu+emc2
[19:22:52] <alex_joni> lol, just found my favourite quote about Java .. anyone wants to hear it?
[19:27:36] <SWPadnos> Java the drink, or Java the pseudo-programming language? ;)
[19:29:15] <alex_joni> the language ;)
[22:27:24] <jepler> cradek: I did a fresh ubuntu install. I did "add packages", "advanced", "add cdrom".
[22:27:35] <jepler> a bunch of updates became available, and they all have "unable to verify" warnings
[22:27:43] <jepler> synaptic is doing the updates now
[22:29:50] <jepler> the emc2 and emc2-axis debs appear in the category "Miscellaneous - text based", though I have no idea why
[22:31:47] <jepler> so far, signs point to this CD just needing small tweaks: "authentication", adding a shell script to do everything, and some installation documentation.
[22:32:14] <jepler> it would be nice if the debs weren't in a silly section like "misc - text" but I'd say it doesn't matter much
[22:33:05] <jepler> emc2-axis installed fine. rebooting to see if it works.
[22:36:15] <jepler> sample-configs/sim/axis.ini works like a charm
[22:36:59] <alex_joni> jepler: you just need to sign the repository & the packages
[22:37:07] <alex_joni> bet cradek knows how ;)
[22:37:20] <alex_joni> btw, I build a LiveCD with emc2 & axis on it
[22:37:36] <alex_joni> it's all well, except that it's not running (wrong kernel)
[22:37:42] <alex_joni> now I'm fighting udeb & co..
[22:39:07] <jepler> yeah I saw you talk about that earlier
[22:39:12] <jepler> exactly how I got stuck
[22:40:03] <jepler> and again using only the stuff on the CD I was able to rebuild the emc2 and emc2-axis debs
[22:40:09] <alex_joni> cool
[22:40:10] <jepler> OK, this is really a great success
[22:40:17] <alex_joni> I know a bit more about this now..
[22:40:17] <jepler> after dinner I'll sort out the rest
[22:40:38] <alex_joni> I'm searching for a package called: kernel-image-2.6.12-9-386-di
[22:40:47] <alex_joni> and the appropriate source
[22:42:25] <jepler> good luck .. and goodnight if I don't see you again today
[22:42:26] <jepler> bbl
[22:43:33] <alex_joni> yeah.. bye
[22:57:18] <alex_joni> jepler: jfyi, there is a package called 'kernel-wedge' which is supposed to make the udebs
[23:30:13] <jmkasunich> evening folks
[23:31:40] <alex_joni> howdy john
[23:31:49] <jmkasunich> hi
[23:33:15] <alex_joni> argh.. I had no idea this is so complicated :)
[23:33:22] <jmkasunich> the live cd?
[23:33:31] <alex_joni> yeah..
[23:33:34] <alex_joni> mostly the kernel
[23:33:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is going to places where he's never been :)
[23:35:43] <alex_joni> this are things that only a handfull of people usually do, and like with out project .. it never gets documented
[23:38:58] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: so.. how've you been?
[23:39:08] <jmkasunich> tired
[23:39:42] <alex_joni> I know the feeling
[23:39:53] <alex_joni> I almost trashed my ubuntu today
[23:39:59] <jmkasunich> how?
[23:40:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni makes a mental note: never delete unused partitions inside a logical disk
[23:40:30] <alex_joni> fscking fdisk decide to renumber the partitions
[23:40:42] <jmkasunich> oops
[23:40:44] <alex_joni> including the / partition where the grub data was
[23:41:27] <alex_joni> spent quite some time till I got to boot again
[23:41:44] <alex_joni> luckily I had built a LiveCD with emc2 on it, so I had a rescue system :D
[23:41:56] <alex_joni> s/a/the/
[23:43:55] <alex_joni> remind me to shoot myself when emc2 will build like the kernel (same complexity)
[23:44:09] <jmkasunich> we need less not more
[23:44:17] <alex_joni> I totally agree
[23:44:34] <alex_joni> I've been doing stuff for the last hour or so, most of which I don't understand at all
[23:49:54] <jmkasunich> drat
[23:50:04] <jmkasunich> I just overwrote several files that had edits in them
[23:50:12] <alex_joni> local?
[23:55:01] <jmkasunich> yeah
[23:56:55] <alex_joni> ouch.. you should use rsnapshot
[23:57:19] <jmkasunich> no, I should just think before I act
[23:57:21] <alex_joni> I've set it up today.. works great
[23:57:31] <alex_joni> and easy to set-up
[23:57:32] <jmkasunich> I got a package from the web, and started hacking it to customize
[23:58:08] <jmkasunich> then I decided "instead of hacking the original program, I should add another prog to the makefile that does my custom stuff, and restore the original
[23:58:23] <jmkasunich> so I saved the source file with my hacks in it under a different name
[23:58:27] <alex_joni> darn, this kernel compile really takes long :(
[23:58:31] <jmkasunich> added stuff to the makefile
[23:59:12] <jmkasunich> then re-untar'red the original tarball to replace the modified main.c (the one I hacked on, then renamed)
[23:59:13] <alex_joni> then recopied the package?
[23:59:22] <alex_joni> and .. ?
[23:59:27] <jmkasunich> but of course that replaced the makefile I just changed
[23:59:49] <jmkasunich> and the minor but plentiful changes I needed to make in a couple other files to get it to compile