warm at last...
jmkasunich: ok I just did my taxes, I can afford an encoder
got your parts done?
got the outside milling part done
still lathe work, drilling and tapping, engraving the scales and stamping the numbers, etc
it will keep me busy for the rest of the weekend
how many counts per revolution do I want? I can get 50 on up
taxes... and I thought you were away making the shaft coupler... where are your priorities man?
it's too cold in the garage for lathe work - I'll wait until the sun's out
hmm, these I can make on the sherline indoors
I thought you had a sherline? tuck it under your arm and take it inside!
yeah the "big" lathe is in the garage
oh, didn't know you had a big lathe
well it's 6" - big compared to the sherline
it's a bit of a clunker but it works
thats what counts
speaking of counts.... cpr
when US digital says cpr, do they mean cycles or counts?
Resolutions up to 2500 CPR (10,000 PPR)
I still can't find the one you found with 1/8 shaft
the HAL encoder counter can theoritically count at the interrupt rate
that was the S4 I think
it didn't have an index pulse
what is your base period?
let me check
so a 20KHz interrupt rate
if the encoder signals were perfect (50/50 duty cycle, exactly 90 degrees between A and B) it could count at 20KHz
so we should count at 2? 5? for it to work well
it can count at 10KHz even with fairly crappy signals
how fast is your Z (max accel, max vel)
vel .3667 acc 20
so zero to max speed in .3667/20 = 18mS, thats good
Z is a lot slower than XY
max speed is 22 ipm
yeah it accels great
assume we're cutting a 10 tpi thread
could probably even be turned up
22 ipm * 10 tpi = 220 rpm
thats the max speed for a 10 tpi thread
finer threads could go faster
that's pretty slow isn't it
slow for CNC threading, my manual threading is probably about that speed
I dunno how much torque you'll have down there
it's not bad - pretty hard to stop the motor by hand
the spindle motor?
the sherline motor has a nice speed control
ok, thats good
lets say 40 tpi is about the finest thread you'll cut
that would be a max spindle speed of 22ipm * 40 tpi = 880 RPM
= 14.667 RPS, call it 15
if we can count at 10KHz, 10KHz/15 revs/sec = 666 counts/rev
I'd probably get 500 counts/rev
that means the encoder will reliably count up to 10000/500 = 20 revs/sec = 1200 RPM
is 500 (or 512) available?
anything else available in the 500-700 range?
if I got 360, would it hurt performance much? I could have a more useful rpm reading for general low speed milling
nah forget it, I won't be able to leave it hooked up
they have a huge range in 200-1000
if you are using HAL for the RPM reading it can be scaled any way you want anyway
you want the highest you can get that will count reliably at the max speed you expect to thread at
I think I could reduce PERIOD a bit too if I had a little reliability problem
so 500 or 512? doesn't matter?
could use 600 too, that would give you a nice round top speed of 1000 RPM
500 512 540 720 900
err not 540 (no index)
720 is too high, that would top out at less than 800 RPM
reliable counting to at least 1200, probably up to 1800 or so with a few lost counts (for speed indication for example, not for threading)
[01:58:43] <cradek> http://www.usdigital.com/products/s1s2/
I think I will get the S1
I don't see any problems with it
whats the diff between S1 and S2?
(still reading the page)
not sure, except S2 is bigger and isn't available in as many cpr
pricing is the same
looks like they charge an extra $9 for the index, and $8 for the bearing
oh I didn't see the index charge
oh now I do
S2 covers higher resolutions - thats why its bigger
the lines on the disk can only get so small, then they have to make the disk bigger
so I can hook these three lines right to the parport?
looks that way
I have a jogwheel (basically an encoder with a handle) and I hooked it right to the parport, worked fine
that sounds really cool
I've always wished the mill had dual-shaft motors so I could put cranks on them
you don't want 500cpr, if I understand it correctly that is 2000 counts per rev
you want 500-600 counts/rev, which is 125-150 CPR
100, 192, 200
good catch, I would have missed it
I was looking at the electrical specs page
argh wtf, I can't order online?
"Resolutions up to 2500 CPR (10,000 PPR)" is what reminded me
I'm a dinosaur, I tend to pick things out online but phone in the order
what is this phone?
still don't trust my credit card on the web
ah, I do that all the time
watsom, come here, I need you!
watson that is
what is the spindle OD?
under the pulley
are we talking about setting up a spindle encoder? ;)
in the pulley it's .625
for the little length below it, it's a bit bigger
= ~ .670 in
and the pulley OD?
skunkworks: yep, I didn't succeed in scamming parts off anyone, so jmk is helping me figure out what to buy
you can get a 2" optical disk with a 0.625 hole in it for $12, and the detector module for $28
great. I was hoping. I don't think I have any encoders - lots of resolvers though.
mount the disk to the inderside of the pulley, the detector to the casting
what's the OD and thickness of the disc?
that would be no-contact so I could leave it on all the time
2" nominal OD
pretty darn thin
exposed glass encoder disk on mill?
I bet I'd break it
exposed yes, that would be an issue
oh much better :-)
unbreakable, but scratchable or tearable
some covering and maybe pos air pressure to keep dirt out
actually jepler will break it
just letting my brain run free, the other idea is probably more robust, but less convenient
yeah let's go with plan A even though it's going to be $80
adds up quick
sure it wouldn't be cheaper to program a pic or something so you could use the 1000CPR one I have?
could a pic do quadrature in and quadrature out , with the out a divided version of the in?
duh, of course it could
you generate an interrupt with one line and on the isr read the other one
I've done it before
could that count up into the 100KHz range?
AVR is risc and runs at 16MHz for a few dollars, so yes
quadrature out means easy interface to EMC thru the parport
I'll buy the right one, which saves on both complexity and trouble for you
divide factor could be set by dip switches or something, for high res at low speed
no trouble for me - it would be you or jepler doing the AVR ;-)
you would have to test and ship
no big deal
I need to remember to bring avr stuff to fest
who knows what we might want to do
dev tools and such?
and some chips
appropriate crystals, etc
the parts that are harder to find
dev tools are just downloaded
in galesburg all parts are hard to find
they _might_ have a radio shack
we better bring our junkboxes then
I don't wnat to be doing hardware design there if I can possibly avoid it
I will bring a soldering iron tho
I wonder if I'm overestimating what will fit in my little car...
all the parts to run my mill are bulky
make jepler ride on the roof
or carry the mill in his lap
but I know I'm going to want it there
or the 21" monitor
21" tube? ouch
only the best (ca 1994) for me
LCDs are mucho better for travel
yumm. threading and ridged tapping - radio shack has been getting worse and worse
(I did the tube thing first couple fests)
yeah but I hesitate to take my $600 LCD anywhere
I take my $700 LCD
you would know better than me - I've not seen the place
(of course by now replacement cost is probably $500 or less)
[02:30:27] <jmkasunich> http://neme-s.org/CNC_Workshop/CNC_Workshop_3.htm
computer area: http://neme-s.org/CNC_Workshop/CNC_Workshop_6.htm
nother view of computers: http://neme-s.org/CNC_Workshop/CNC_Workshop_11.htm
the guy in the black teeshirt and black hair to the left is fenn
the guy standing is Ray (I suspect you already knew that)
hes a kid
had no idea
college I think
who are the rest?
pic with 500Khz encoder thruput http://www.jrkerr.com/icprod.html
mostly the backs fo peoples heads - they are people listening to ray's talk, probalbly not any of us
[02:33:37] <jmkasunich> http://neme-s.org/CNC_Workshop/CNC_Workshop_25.htm
fenn car - he bought a lathe
looks like mine
in pic 3, the white haired guy leaning over the table is tom powderly aka staggerlytom
[02:35:04] <jmkasunich> http://neme-s.org/CNC_Workshop/CNC_Workshop_4.htm
bald guy in the middle is roland
slightly less bald guy left of him is dave-e
pic 6 just as backs of heads again
next to these guys I'll be the kid
fenn in the foreground
it's great to see all ages
just don't look for all genders
people of different ages don't usually work together on stuff, online is changing that
yep for some reason, no women care about this kind of stuff
more faces that have names: http://fenn.freeshell.org/retrofest/dcp_0377.jpg
left to right, jon elson, dave e, ray back to camera, ready to hit estop, tom p
any pics of you - jmk?
[02:39:20] <jmkasunich> http://fenn.freeshell.org/retrofest/dcp_0379.jpg
"last supper" or "what I did on my summer vacation" ?
tom p again, and me (whipping out the DMM to check something)
and of course Boris: http://fenn.freeshell.org/retrofest/dcp_0392.jpg
john, how well did the mazak run, as a toolmaker?
boris is definitely the cute one of the bunch
when we left the axis all ran, but the toolchanger still needed work
393 is ray?
no idea how it will cut metal
here they are in context with subtitles: http://fenn.freeshell.org/retrofest/default.html
crapload of pics there, I just picked the ones with people I recognized
another of me in 367
boy that sure looks like a lot of fun :)
I really hated going back to my day job
don't think this time. Take a lot of pictures though.
ray must've been hidin just then , he was there all the time
yeah, most of the pics of ray show the back of his head
seen as how now I know what you guys look like - here is me in ireleand. My first pint (in ireleand ;)). http://www.electronicsam.com/images/me.JPG
good choice of beer
eh, don't care for guinness
it was a good time. (don't care for beer actually)
I don't think there's a single photo of me on the whole web
not many of me
alex keeps bugging me about it, he thinks maybe I'm a robot or something
Am I talking to a real person? ;)
skunkworks, looks like you had fun
hard to say isn't it
you pass the turing test anyway
I sure am worried about cvs
staggerlytom - we rented a car and drove all over ireland for a week
is developer CVS screwed up now, or just anon?
i wanna go walk there
don't know, I'm trying to use webcvs right this sec
its screwed up because it uses anon
( 2006-03-13 12:42:16 - Project CVS Service ) As of 2006-03-12 pserver (anonymous) CVS services, along with tarballs and ViewCVS are down for projects that start with the letters e, i, j, o, v, w and x. We hope to resolve this issue in the next 2 days.
well, its long past 2 days
webcvs is slowly working
oh, thats an improvement then
I tried to use it to answer a list question while I was traveling, no joy
I guess if we have recent checkouts, we will be able to do work even without cvs
just can't share the results
well, not as easily
I did a lot of "code on my box, commit, walk over to the mazak's PC, update, compile, run"
you'd have to use your thumb drive or whatever they call those
minor stuff I just did right on the mazak box, but things like brand new HAL modules, etc, were done on my box so as not to tie up the machine
sneaker net would raise hell with the cvs checkouts when its finally time to sync with the repository
I just really, really, really hope they aren't screwed up that week
it would make everything much less fun.
hmm, it's supposed to snow through thursday
I should drag the snowblower out tonight, but I'm probably going to procrastinate until it's a royal pain
I know myself pretty well
how much snow are you expecting?
had the windows kinda down today driving. it was nice. (high thirties)
I don't get the blower out for less than 8"
probably realistically only a few inches a day
I've got a really long driveway, and a small car that needs it clear
and the plows push gravel and ice together into a small mountain at the end of the driveway - it's impossible to shovel
gravel? you live in the boonies?
I live in nebraska - we don't have pavement here
here the plows push salt and slush and ice into the driveway
actually I do live a little outside town
most of the time I wish I did
not even a mile from pavement, just far enough to keep traffic away
(except during my 5 minute commute to work - the nearest non-built-up areas mean a 30 minute or more commute)
the nearest affordable non-built-up areas are probably more like 45 mins to an hour
I'm lucky to have mostly highway to work, maybe 10 miles at 60mph
lincoln is a really nicely-sized city
[03:03:48] <jmkasunich> http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/tilePin.ashx?t=1&s=10&x=2304&y=22986&z=17&pin=126|127|258
is that red dot you?
(more or less)
to get the full effect you need to see the surroundings
jmkasunich: what's your nearest city?
[03:05:51] <jmkasunich> http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=15&Z=17&X=71&Y=717&W=1&qs=1256+Belrose+Road%7cMayfield+Heights%7coh%7c&Addr=1256+Belrose+Rd%2c+Cleveland%2c+OH+44124&ALon=-81.4682493&ALat=41.5260748
[03:05:58] <cradek> http://lincolnne.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=Lincoln&s1=NE&c2=cleveland&s2=OH
somehow we have worse theft than you
but not auto theft
[03:08:26] <skunkworks> http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/tile.ashx?t=1&s=10&x=3206&y=24384&z=15
house isn't there yet in the photo ;)
actual trees, nice
jmkasunich: your area looks really dense except you must be by a park or something?
actually we have trees too
yeah, the park is across the street
used to be an elementary school there, they tore it down 25 year or so ago
I'd much rather have a park...
man, in the aerial photos, you really see how much suburbia there is
yeah no kidding
street after street after street of 50 foot wide yards
[03:10:55] <skunkworks> http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/tile.ashx?t=1&s=10&x=3205&y=24383&z=15
- fathers shop - down the road.
what is it?
[03:14:20] <skunkworks> http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=15&X=3205&Y=24383&W=1&qs
tinker shop - odd jobs and "stuff" more of a hobby
jmk: this is local - wonder if I could use the encoder: http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006031821115904&item=10-1834&catname=
my drive way would be in the upper right of the picture - across from the other side road.
hmm, probably no index
the encoder is almost certainly kit style, no bearings
bad idea probably - waste of time
nice motor tho
looks like it is tiny
bet it is at least as strong as jeplers etch-a-sketch ones
no gearbox tho
[03:19:39] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/Hengstler-Danaher-Hollow-Shaft-Encoder-M21-0500-0-13A_W0QQitemZ7599305235QQcategoryZ67005QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
after that experience I can't help but think I could run my little mill with something not much more complex
my long daily commute: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=47.435825,69.960938&saddr=1256+Belrose+Rd,+Cleveland,+OH+44124+%4041.526102,-81.468450&daddr=%22allen+bradley+drive%22+mayfield+heights+ohio+44124&t=h
wow - lot of houses
skunkworks: wow, $7.99 for parcel post
jmkasunich: looks like a nice bicycle ride
on the three days a year when the weather is nice
[03:24:44] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/Optical-Encoder-Oak-Grigsby-new-old-stock-LOT-3_W0QQitemZ7598926999QQcategoryZ67005QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
skunkworks: those would be great if they had an index pulse
might even be 1/8 shaft
broke a tap....
hope it isn't stuck in the work, that's the worst kind
I have no idea what I'm gonna do now
is it a blind hole?
I've always wondered if a tap could be made drillable by heating it to red and cooling slowly
yeah me too.
carbon steel yes, HSS no
besides the part is aluminum, it would melt
what size tap?
broken right at the surface, I'm sure
I've had some luck removing broken steel screws from brass by rusting them away in an alum/water solution
probably your tap is WAY too big for that
(this is a watchmaker trick)
wonder if there's any other chemical-based answer
6-32 isn't huge, but it isn't small either
yeah, depends how much time you have, could take days/weeks
if it takes that long I'd start over
I once burned out a tap with a homemade edm rig
major pain in the ass
walton tap extractor?
nope, power supply, cap, small brass tube, bunch of other cra
I've heard of using edm for that... does sound like a pain
[05:02:12] <cradek> http://www.newmantools.com/walton/extrtap.htm
nope - spiral flute tap
cool, I got a fake encoder running (fed by freqgen)
not sure how to make it reset (emulate index pulse) though
another freqgen, in step/dir mode, running at a low frequency
got the tap out (sort of)
bashed and smashed at it with an assortment of punches, broke it up and got some out, drove the rest down into the part
was able to drill 5/16 dia about 1/2 deep and tap 3/8-16
gonna locktite a bolt in there, cut it off, and redrill and tap 6-32
cool, 3/8-16 x 3/4 long aluminum studs
mcmaster, $7.40 pack of 5
cradek: you still awake?
cradek: I have an encoder idea for you
* dan_falck is away: have to go out to my shop
good day all
does the move to UBUNTU get us some form if IPC ( DBUS maybe ) ?
form of IPC
staggerlytom: UBUNTU is another linux distribution
it has nothing to do with communication inside emc
Yes, and many apps have difficulties working into the Debian frame, i wondered if IPC was ok on this variant
what kind of apps?
(apps LiVES and othe video processing, stitching, audio and TTS ) but I see that DBUS tools are available for UBUNTU, so its not a question
the Deb probs are usually that Deb is behind the bleeding edge in available .debs
not Debian exactly, but the Sarge edition
staggerlytom: usually that just means you need to compile a deb - no big deal
rayh is now known as rayh-away
cradek: likely true, pkgs are not an endall remedy
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
rayh-away is now known as rayh
Just connected by univstep board and emc will not come up.
dmesg seems to say that the driver is installed and then it just quits with the term message.
Machine configuration file is 'univstep.ini'
HAL: ERROR: thread '' not found
HAL config file /home/rayh/emc2/configs/univstep//univstep_load.hal failed.
# then run the motion controller
I think these two lines aren't right, because no thread is specified
Oh. That would do it.
addf motion-command-handler servo-thread
addf motion-controller servo-thread
I bet he meant this (found in core_stepper)
What file you looking in?
Got it thanks, Chris. I'll commit that.
did you check the rest of the configs?
I ran stepper today, so that should be ok
did I screw something up?
* alex_joni just finished watching a movie
fsck, I think I left off the thread names in a lot of configs
(in a minute)
I just found redundant references to tuning params in m5i20
I'll commit the fix in a few.
rayh: I checked all the rest of the configs for missing thread names, only found one (and fixed it)
That should clean things up.
I found the double reference to ini because it showed em twice in the calib editor.
nice cross check
rayh: seen halui?
hope you might also look over the pin names
I'll start coding this week probably
I'll download in a bit.
Hey alex_joni Where'd you put the listing.
in the file
in the big comment ontop
next to emcsh.cc
Ah found it.
rayh: I'm heading for bed.. drop me an email if you have comments
catch you later.