dave-e said he got an axis to jog
first we jog, then we run ;-)
how can I configure the ubuntu/gnome desktop behavior?
what about it? (I'm not a gnome expert)
specifically, I'd like to enable the "snap" behavior when moving windows around
kde and xubuntu both have it by default
you mean they prefer to line up to the edges of stuff?
I don't think it has that. That's one of the reason I went back to the icewm window manager.
I notice it's in the next gnome release though.
thats just one of a number of little annoyances
I was gonna give it a try tonight (IOW, instead of bitching about gnome's default behavior, try to make it work like I want)
but I think I might just go back to KDE
what parts of the desktop environment do you use?
I never use the graphical file browser (windows explorer clone) or the icons on the desktop
maybe you should try switching to icewm
I don't use icons (well, extremely rarely)
I use kate
it's 100% configurable (and has a sane default configuration)
I like konqueror - much faster startup than firefox, does 95% of what I want from a browser
I use firefox for the other 5%
hmm, sounds like you want kde
well, I'm accustomed to KDE
there could be similar functionality for icewm and/or gnome, but if I don't know about it....
if your connection is fast, I bet you could additionally install all of kde in short order
I did install kate (which dragged in a ton of crap)
maybe kdesktop is the package you want
I'm not thrilled about the idea of having two big and bloated desktop/window managers installed
then try icewm, seriously
it's just a window manager, ca late-90s
you know, kind of like unix?
now that is annoying...
I must have fat-fingered the wrong key, and my x-chat tab became a separate window
how to put it back is non-obvious
I use irssi, a text-mode irc client, ca late-90s
that's not how
apparently not that button
I use irssi, a text-mode irc client, ca late-90s
I actually got it back, File->attach tab
two seconds later the main x-chat window closed
hmm, synaptic search doesn't find icewm
or anything beginning with ice
found libice6 and friends
ii icewm 1.2.22-2ubuntu wonderful Win95-OS/2-Motif-like window manag
it's even a ubuntu package
ah it's in universe
does icewm have that nifty snap feature?
(amazing how you get used to things like that)
icewm does virtually everything right
you can run everything from the keyboard
ok, now I have a nice list of icewm packates
you can bind keys however you like (printscreen always starts a terminal for me)
icewm is known for being lite, this must be very lite
yeah, I run the full-featured version on my 486 laptop
and it's just as fast as ever
only a meg or so ;-)
If I like it here I should stick it on my laptops
once you have a config you like, tar up ~/.icewm and copy it around
I already put xubuntu on those
you know, just like unix :-)
you know, I never used unix
really? you sure missed something
"oh, I got that set up right, just copy my .something file"
TRS-80, then CPM-80, CPM-86, DOS, WIN-3.1, WIN95, and WIN2K (at work)
started with linux about 3-4 years ago, using BDI-TNG (RH7.x with KDE 2.something)
I think I went commodore, dos, os/2, linux, bsd, linux
never really was a serious windows user
when did you get first exposure to unix/linux?
it's funny, the first distribution I had, I bought from CD ROM WORLD here in Lincoln
CDs were so new, there was a store that sold them
oh, I just remembered a couple more
no theme, just the software had to be on a CD ROM
very funny actually
and I think I did actually use unix for a semester in college
so I bought that and fought to get it to work (very crappy early distribution), learned some from the process, never really looked back
on a PDP-11 IIRC
heh wow, that's before my time
after a few years, I got a job using my unix skills in a software shop, and I'm still there
I was the first class in college that didn't use punch cards for the introduction to programming class
been there 11? years now
we used pascal on the DEC TOPS-20 timeshare system
my first college programming class was also pascal
this was fall of 1980
The PDP-11 lived in the microprocessors lab in a cage, and was rarely if ever used
I got to use it for some senior project stuff
but those two (the TOPS and the PDP) were my only experiences with the big machine/shared machine world
I think I have my first linux CD still somewhere, wonder if anything would boot it
everything else was single user
the first computer I personally owned was a Kaypro, CPM-80
I do big-machine every day still... for developers at work
yeah, I googled the company - fancy software
yeah, interesting stuff
I take care of the programmers but don't program much there.
care and feeding of programmers?
yeah pretty much
and various other things
so I'd guess I started using linux somewhere around 94?
swore off it for a while because the distros were so crappy compared to freebsd
later, I went back to linux for desktops because it seemed like a better desktop platform
still always have bsd servers
[01:09:59] <cradek> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4755492.stm
today I see articles like this, and think to myself: my computer has never been like this. It works much better than those computers, and I didn't pay anything for it.
I don't understand why people still make fun of linux users - they live with their parents, they've never talked to a girl, etc
what kind of systems do you admin?
those are generic geek stereotypes
and linux hasn't lost the geek flavor yet
many unix flavors, several PC based, some HP workstations (not used much anymore)
sounded from the website that the company's SW is mostly doze based
or do they cross develop on *nix boxes?
well most people buy windows today. virtually all development is on linux.
we still sell both.
when I started we were unix-only. marketing forces changed that 5? years ago
sad but true
I miss it. I did support for a while, and all of our customers had modems on their unix servers, and I could fix damn near anything
now we have poor saps on the phone saying "click this, click that"
when I started with Rockwell, the high end cad (pc board layout, FPGA place and route) were unit (sun)
I very briefly used unix for fpgas about 1993 or 4
I ran autocad on a sun at the previous job
never used the board layout stuff, used orcad and now pads
% uptime 7:15pm up 1674 days, 9:01, 1 user, load average: 0.16, 0.03, 0.01
one of my very old HP workstation machines
unfortunately, I had to shut it down when we moved to the new office
I could never approach that because I don't have UPS
yeah you definitely need a UPS
but most PC hardware won't even last this many years. cheap fans, cheap power supplies, etc
this machine has had NO hardware replaced and has been on since 1994
I just brought in a box that I want to fire up one of these days
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 8192 Oct 17 1991 lost+found
HP Kayak XM600 workstation
not familiar with that one
just a high end pc
dual pentuim 3's, rambus memory, scsi
but a lot better than generic consumer grade
I have mixed feelings because I want it to not break, but if it does, I want to go buy parts locally
so I typically don't use special server hardware.
that's what that pile in the basement is for, even if the HR manager hates it
I have about 5 spare CPU boards for the compile farm
unfortunately only the original 2 power supplies, and one of them died a month or so back
that runs them all?
remember these are 200MHz Pentiums, with 128M ram, 1 disk per CPU, no CD-ROM or other drives, and no 200W graphics cards
right now I'm only running 5 of the 8 slots
the system was designed to run on one supply (the second is for reduncancy, not load)
when will we get a ubuntu slot?
when I get off my lazy ass and install it
I suppose we really don't need a slot that matches what most? of the developers are using
might still be good to have a "clean" system, with only the stock ubuntu packages and a certain list of others (kernel, rtai, etc)
that would catch dependencies on packages that we might have installed, but joe user doesn't
(like bwidget for example)
ok, icwem is installed (about 20 mins ago ;-)
yeah, but it does seem most useful for testing legacy systems
how to I start using it instead of gnome
on the sessions menu before you log in
it will list all the installed window managers?
I think so
I'm not sure how it knows what to list
guess I'll find out
bye for now ;-)
I could get to like this
[01:29:16] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/dot.icewm.tar.gz
here's my setup if you want to copy something already working
it's a simple look/feel and some key shortcuts
ah crap, it's set up for gnome - comment out the first couple lines in .icewm/preferences
I knew it was a good thing when the default has a toolbar button to launch a shell
and not much else
and it loaded in 3, not 30 seconds
log out and back in to make the .icwm file take effect?
no, restart icewm on the menu
don't see that
logout -> restart icewm?
not sure, I have a different menu here
well, that did NOT go well
once I installed your .icewm, (and forgot to delete certain lines from certain files) it gave me a purple screen with absolutely nothing on it
no menu bar or anything
dunno what happened, but I made it much worse.... :-(
ah crap, it's set up for gnome - comment out the first couple lines in .icewm/preferences
said this earlier, you must have missed it
saw it, forgot to do it
then when I had ctrl-alt-F1 to a tty and logged in, I could only remember that some lines in some file needed to go
decide the safe bet was relete the whole .icewm tree and start fresh
only problem is I mis-typed the rm command
well I'll quit helping (making it worse)
deleted my home directory
I kid you not
fortunately this is my "temporary ubuntu try it" install
my real, had it for a year or more home directory is on another partition
and how are your backups?
backups? what backups?
time for dinner, bbl
I'm not entirely sure what I erased
an emc checkout or two, easily replaced
manuals for KVM switches, ditto
what are your views on using something like a gecko servo drive vs a servo card + amp with emc2
the gecko servo drives need step/dir inputs
I don't like the idea of emc not doing the servo loop.
I don't know how much hardware hackery would be needed to disable the gecko internal loop
void the warranty thats for sure
I am trying to talk myself out of the easy way out.. ;)
oh yes - that was only in the back of my mind ;O
how do you think it would work using the encoder inputs also to emc? that would I assume be only for actual position - not any kind of inner - outer servo loop?
you can use the G3xx as velocity drives by lifting pin 2 on the LM33x and applying a 0-5V (I think) signal there
lemme see if I can find the email from Mariss on that
you'd still need a card that can read the encoder pulses
and a DAC to drive the gecko
so in essence you're buying the gecko to get a PWM modulator and power stage
yep - it would just bypass the step/dir part, and use it as a "normal" servo drive
(which on second thought isn't that bad an idea ;-)
heh - they are pretty cheap, even for that :)
it is awfully cheap for
I wonder what dmessier is smoking?
for a servo drive either way
:) that is why I am here.
I noticed that a few days ago when I was talking to him.
he still won't believe that Canada is the second largest country, not the first
looking at mercator projections too long
or however you spell it
heh - the first is Russia, so you get the same problems :)
what kind of cards are out there that emc could use to output a analog 0-5 volt signal - cheap?
cheap is the challenge
depends on what you call cheap
STG, motenc, vital, but I don't think any are cheap
does m5i20 do analog?
www.measurementcomputing.com may have something
not directly, but there's a daughtercard
the measurement computing boards (if any) would need HAL drivers
but more drivers is a good thing, if there are decent specs for the board, we can write a driver
they're pretty easy to program for
there are register specs, or at least there were when I last wrote a Linux-based program for one ;)
so is the 0 to 5 volt to the drive 0 to 2.5 forward and 2.5 to 5 reverse? where 2.5 is 0 output.
right - I forgot to look fo rthe appropriate message :)
just thinking out loud. thanks
could you close the loop with a encoder input to the printer port?
or would that not be fast enough?
as long as the encoder rate is low enough
depends on the system
yes, if the computer can run roughly 50-100% faster than the needed step pulse stream (for a "regular" gecko system)
5000 count per rev encoder at 3000RPM, no
ok - so find a decent analog out card with digital inputs to use for incoders.
500 count per rev encoder at 500 RPM yes
specifically, quadrature inputs - not just digital inputs, which are basically what the parport is
SWP: I think he means generic dig ins, connected to the HAL software based encoder counter
right - like I said, basically no difference between parport and some other digital inputs
(unless they're made for quadrature input)
I must have missed something
DAC + generic dig ins (parport or 8255 or whatever) works for slow encoder count rates
up to maybe 10KHz
DAC & encoder specific dig ins (hardware counters) works for much higher count rates
I pretty sure skunkworks was talking about the former, not the latter
I guess my point was that there's no real differnce between a digital I/O card and a parport
so a decent servo card with encoder inputs uses the card to count the encoder info - then emc just sees the number. instead of having to have emc do the "math"
god I type slow.
well - the counting. emc still does the math ;)
right - I think I get it.
so there is already hal "parts" to do the encoder counting - from digital inputs?
heh - I thought I remembered that - it was alex that asked Mariss in the first place :)
that was actually one of the first HAL modules written
- thats what you where using with your H bridge and encoder on the parrellel port?
Understand hacking the drive voids the warrantee. Having said that,
auto-reset the drive by shorting ERR/RES to ENC+. Cut the trace going
to pin 2 of the LM393 which is immediately behind the LIMIT trimpot.
Connect a 500 Ohm pot across ENC+ to ENC- and take the wiper to pin 2
of the LM393.
The motor off position will be half-scale on the pot.
The drive will FAULT normally for over-current. The LIMIT trimpot
will operate normally as a torque limit control.
there you go - 2.5V = stopped
he diidn't say 2.5V
half scale = 2.5V
cool - and yes I know that will totaly void the warrentee.
are enc+ and enc- = +5 and gnd?
* jmkasunich shuts up
those are the encoder supply
you must use feedback though, and can't go up to 5V or down to 0, or you'll fault the drive
if you want to find the messages, go to the Gecodrive yahoo group, and look for a message from "Alex" on 3/26/2005, with subject "G340 without encoder"
feedback as in encoder back to emc - emc running the gecko
limiting the dac signal in HAL is easy
thank you. - jmk - doesn't the max accelleration per axis do that?
or am I thinking to simply
you can be paranoid and tun the PID output through a limiter as well
max accell limits what the PID loop is asked to do
the DAC signal is what the PID asks the motor to do
and the PID already has a maxoutput parameter (iirc)
that my definition of "easy" ;-)
too easy, there must be a haqrder way
hmm - more reading I guess. the wiki page on servo tuning using halscope is pretty neet.
I also hate leetspeek
takes me 4 times reading it to get the meaning. too much work
Thanks guys. I am learning - I think.
I've actually seen someone abbreviate the word "any" with the (much shorter version) "n/e"
so much less typing, I can see why they chose to do that
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[Global Notice] Hi all. One of our projects of which you may have heard, wikipedia, has almost reached its one millionth article. You may want to go help them with the countdown on #wikipedia-countdown .... congratulations to all concerned. :)
[Global Notice] Whoops, that may have been unclear. Wikipedia uses freenode, but they're run by Wikimedia Foundation, not us. ;) The channel is #wikipedia-countdown :)