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[00:28:44] <sadless74> http://habrahabr.ru/post/227193/ - Создание оффлайн карты для iOS приложения
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[08:53:56] * az09|And задолбался в josm треки разгребать :-\
[08:56:05] <az09|And> есть тулса которая из кучи треков найдет такие у которых хотя бы одна точка лежит в заданном полигоне?
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[10:50:28] <az09|And> что так сложно-то всё в жосме..!
[10:52:08] <freeExec> как раз наоборот, когда я сижу в ИД и втыкаю почему тут шорткат нужный не работает
[10:54:32] * az09|And делает уже не первый подход по привязке фото из османда взятых
[10:55:02] <az09|And> так и не разобрался ни разу
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[11:11:00] <az09|And> упорно в начало трека ставится фото, не могу понять как это работает o_O
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[11:15:23] <az09|And> может надо предварительно выставить время создания в jpg?
[11:16:01] <az09|And> видимо во время переписывания на комп что-то ломаетя...
[11:21:10] <old_Bibigon> в exif-теги посмотри
[11:22:02] <old_Bibigon> josm вроде время в каком-то стандартном ожидает, а у меня телефон в другом писал (давно ковырял не помню с ходу тонкости)
[11:23:48] <az09|And> old_Bibigon: osmand не пишет почти ничего в exif. такая пичаль
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[11:31:56] <andrewsh> az09|And: да нифига, у меня всегда все теги стоят
[11:33:32] <andrewsh> а вообще есть подозрение, что там что приложение камеры впишет, то и будет
[11:33:52] <az09|And> смешно то, что гпспрун замечательно распарсивает османдовые wpt
[11:35:40] <az09|And> andrewsh, перечисли-ка плагины османда свои
[11:36:54] <andrewsh> плагины?
[11:36:56] <andrewsh> хм
[11:37:38] <andrewsh> ну этим же занимается audio-video notes
[11:38:16] <andrewsh> только ведь это
[11:38:20] <andrewsh> почему у тебя wpt?
[11:38:29] <andrewsh> османд же gpx генерит
[11:38:29] <az09|And> т.е. если я ВООБЩЕ снимки делаю то он включен.
[11:38:59] <az09|And> все прги генерят разные gpx
[11:39:10] <az09|And> при этом все по сьандарту
[11:39:22] <andrewsh> а, ты про <wpt>?
[11:39:32] <andrewsh> <wpt lat="49.1275549" lon="18.6688399">
[11:39:32] <andrewsh> <name>0LNxfND6---5.jpg</name>
[11:39:32] <andrewsh> <time>2013-08-25T11:56:13Z</time>
[11:39:32] <andrewsh> </wpt>
[11:39:38] <andrewsh> нопремер
[11:39:54] <az09|And> угу %)
[11:41:11] <az09|And> в камере выставлено запись координат. и они таки записываются стоковым приложением, да!
[11:41:38] <az09|And> а османд по-своему делает
[11:42:08] <andrewsh> что по-своему?
[11:42:20] <andrewsh> османд использует системную аппликацию
[11:43:04] * az09|And also долго привыкал к ориентации портрет/альбом в зависимости от того нажимать на хардкнопку или на экран топтать
[11:43:23] <az09|And> andrewsh, нет
[11:43:27] <andrewsh> да
[11:43:42] <az09|And> 2.3 есичо
[11:43:49] <andrewsh> 2.3 что?
[11:44:10] <az09|And> андроид такой
[11:44:21] <andrewsh> но я тебе точно говорю, османд снимает системной аппликацией
[11:44:38] <andrewsh> я говорю так, потому что у меня htc и она там сильно другая
[11:44:46] <andrewsh> и потому я вижу, что это она :)
[11:45:42] <az09|And> ну хз, у асера вроде тоже не сильно много от гугла оставлено. и у меня - не она :-P
[11:46:17] <andrewsh> значит, она не селектнута как дефолт
[11:46:37] <az09|And> а других вроде и нету
[11:47:07] <andrewsh> значит, твоя версия андроида при запросе приложением фотографии даёт урезанную версию
[11:47:37] <andrewsh> османд снимает ровно через то же самое, через что снимают фейсбук, форсквер и ещё куча приложений
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[11:48:10] <mapper000> здравствуйте, может меня кто-нибудь проконсультировать по киоскам?
[11:48:26] <andrewsh> союзпечати?
[11:48:41] <az09|And> возможно так и есть. но вот осмтрекер умудряется нужную "версию" вызвать
[11:50:44] <az09|And> тут тебе и link внутри wpt, и координаты в exif есть
[11:50:57] <mapper000> даже не по киоскам, в конфликтной ситуации с участником сообщетсва
[11:51:09] <mapper000> http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/174011#map=17/59.92109/30.33185&layers=N
[11:51:10] <mapper000> http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/174010#map=19/59.92040/30.32876&layers=N
[11:51:32] <mapper000> участник заявляет, что ларьки не мапим. Но я такой информации не смог найти
[11:52:11] <andrewsh> az09|And: что за link?
[11:52:20] <andrewsh> mapper000: мапим всё
[11:52:22] <andrewsh> вообще всё
[11:52:32] <mapper000> откоментите, тогда пожалуйста
[11:52:55] <mapper000> а то, я боюсь, с тем участником мне бесполезно напрямую общаться
[11:53:18] <mapper000> спасибо большое
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[11:55:59] <az09|And> andrewsh,
http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/#type_linkType
[11:59:22] <andrewsh> а!
[11:59:33] <andrewsh> ну насчёт link — это тебе в багтрекер
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[12:01:48] <az09|And> он есть в осмтракер и я счастлив. его нет в османде. зато османд записывает ele.
[12:02:39] <andrewsh> az09|And: кстати, странный этот юзер
[12:02:40] <andrewsh> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2930428303
[12:02:44] <andrewsh> сам мапит вот такое
[12:02:51] <andrewsh> а киоски с блинами ему не ок
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[12:03:55] <az09|And> плохая идея подкидывать мне ссылки нынче ;-)
[12:04:05] <andrewsh> ?
[12:04:08] <andrewsh> почему?
[12:04:42] <ZKoshak-droideko> Мне точки продажи чебуреков ок..... ;)
[12:05:14] <andrewsh> ZKoshak-droideko: а, это ты?
[12:05:39] <ZKoshak-droideko> ja-Ja. =)
[12:05:43] <andrewsh> что за дурь, ну
[12:05:54] <andrewsh> нельзя же себя так вести
[12:06:03] <az09|And> плюсом к экрану чуть больше 3" у меня еще и 3г барахлит. приходится ёжиками колоться
[12:06:12] <ZKoshak-droideko> Да, просто во что превратили.... вот и...
[12:06:27] <andrewsh> ZKoshak-droideko: что превратили?
[12:06:30] <andrewsh> во что?
[12:06:34] <ZKoshak-droideko> Сейчас найду образец...
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[12:07:44] <az09|And> а у нас теперь ведь ларьки повывелись кстати. теперь у нас кругом павильоны!11
[12:09:46] <andrewsh> ZKoshak-droideko: не нужны образцы. таким способом можно очень легко отпугнуть новичков
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[12:10:53] <ZKoshak-droideko> Во:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/178599
[12:14:17] <Wild> так... вот с этим
https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/151169 надо что-то делать :)
[12:14:35] <Wild> а я как назло уже почти на работе, вечером наверное займусь чисткой этой гадости
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[12:25:14] <ZKoshak-droideko> Вот что они этим хотели сказать?
http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/176399
[12:25:50] <ZKoshak-droideko> Надо приписку при создании оставить, чтобы не использовали как маркеры...
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[12:33:27] <Zverik> putnik: какое там поиграться, если уж брать, то учиться, и затем использовать минимум раз в неделю, как я сейчас inkscape
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[13:07:03] <Zverik> Hind: дашь поносить? :)
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[13:07:31] <Hind> Zverik: ага, только они хранятся в офисе :3
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[13:07:48] <Zverik> Hind: переезжай в питерский яндекс :)
[13:08:33] <Hind> Zverik: Я подумаю. Пробок-то у вас почти нет, по ощущения. :3
[13:08:47] <Hind> Был на машине в питере в начале мая
[13:09:07] <Hind> Катались по будням и выходным по городу. Пару раз пришлось потолкаться, но и только.
[13:09:17] <Zverik> ну если не считать вечеров рабочих дней в центре города, то да
[13:09:40] <Zverik> вы не поверите, но я туда же:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Zverik/Areas
[13:10:10] <Hind> Мы, как настоящие москвичи, забыли о мостах, и в итоге возвращались с Петроградки в центр через Володарский мост
[13:10:27] <Hind> или через Обуховский, не помню
[13:10:49] <Hind> Главное, что 30 км вместо трёх
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[13:12:29] <Hind> XML-описание это, конечно, хорошо. А зачем нужно такая атомарность арий? Можно же из веев их составлять.
[13:12:38] <Hind> Вместо ring писать ссылки на веи
[13:12:53] <Hind> Просто в редакторах непоказывать такую сущность арий.
[13:13:02] <Hind> А показывать как нечто неделимое
[13:13:18] <Hind> Блин, я что-то со склоненями портачу весь день.
[13:13:53] <Zverik> Hind: дочитай до конца :)
[13:16:22] <Hind> Надо будет откамментить
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[13:25:49] <Wild> Zverik: Hind: а в питере протегано время развода мостов? :)
[13:26:09] <Zverik> не знаю
[13:26:30] <Wild> и как его правильно тегать, ну не ставить же мосту opening_hours? :)))
[13:26:44] <Wild> или... гхм, ставить?
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[13:27:59] <Wild> а, еще, 100 раз поднимавшийся наверное вопрос
[13:28:19] <Wild> если у банка есть время обслуживания для юрлиц, которое отличается от того, что для физлиц - как такое можно протегать?
[13:28:34] <az09|And> 2 пои
[13:29:22] <Wild> O_O
[13:29:41] <Wild> с одинаковым name но разными opening_hours? или как? как юрлица-то поймут что там для юрлиц?
[13:30:09] <Wild> или у одного будет name=Газмясбанк, а у второго - name=Газмясбанк (для юрлиц)?
[13:30:41] <az09|And> уйду я т вас, вон как зыркаете. и вообще, зарядиться надо
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[13:31:36] * Wild =*^_^*=
[13:34:32] <Zverik> juridical_faces :)
[13:35:03] <Zverik> Wild: я тегировал так: opening_hours:juridical
[13:35:06] <Wild> о даааааа, я это помню
[13:35:23] <Wild> ну кстати наверное не juridical, а official, или даже businesses
[13:35:26] <Wild> черт его знает
[13:35:29] <Wild> может b2b
[13:35:34] <Wild> надо пропозал делать
[13:35:38] <Zverik> Wild: в тагинфо мой вариант — самый частый из альтернатив
[13:35:45] <Wild> ну и корявость если честно
[13:35:57] <Wild> именно на слух
[13:36:27] <Zverik> моих 15, есть ещё по 4 opening_hours:legal_person и opening_hours:juridical_person
[13:36:42] <Wild> хм, забавно
[13:36:52] <Wild> ну в принципе это называется b2b :)
[13:36:54] <Wild> так что :)
[13:37:09] <Zverik> я бы советовал мой вариант использовать, понятно :)
[13:37:25] <Wild> ну тогда так, да
[13:37:36] <Wild> а вообще интересно, это кто-нибудь вообще парсит/рендерит
[13:37:39] <Wild> ?
[13:38:23] <Wild> меня кстати прикалывает как мои протаганные водяные колонки в гармине рендерятся как "колодец" на карте от Макса :)
[13:38:30] <Wild> идешь так по городу и вдруг - колодец O_O
[13:39:43] <Wild> так, ладно, пойду дальше творить всякие кошачьи безобразия ^.^
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[13:52:17] <[w]Komzpa> Zverik: твою арею можно на тегах сэмулировать!
[13:52:25] <Zverik> :))
[13:52:55] <Zverik> да всё можно сэмулировать, даже линии
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[13:57:07] <Zverik> предлагаю в api 0.8 убрать всё, кроме точек, тогда, а арии делать как тут написано:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:The_Future_of_Areas
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[14:08:10] <andrewsh> это как-то не на 0.8, а не 0.∞ скорее
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[14:43:52] <Wild> паппп/redr
[14:44:02] <Wild> оу ))
[14:44:09] <Wild> консолька с ума сошла )
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[15:18:00] <andrewsh> /redr
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[15:25:25] <[w]Komzpa> /remap
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[16:27:40] <Zverik> какие-то странные комменты по новым ариям на dev@: один пишет «я ничего не понял, но вот бы как я сделал», второй — «пропозал слишком сложный, и придётся переписывать софт, лучше давайте переименуем мультиполигоны»
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[16:30:03] <Zverik> (я, конечно, посвятил полчаса вчера обдумыванию варианта сделать альтернативные мультиполигоны, но мне не нравится, что на простые полигоны — например, дома, — придётся делать по два объекта: линии и арии)
[16:31:10] <Zverik> но это стало отправной идеей пропозала: всего-то надо было решить вопрос мелких полигонов (встроить списки точек в <area>) и береговых линий (обратить отношения)
[16:32:16] <freeExec> кто будет решать за пользователя что он создал
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[16:37:41] <Zverik> Совет
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[17:10:02] <putnik> Zverik, три раза перечитал, чтобы понять, что мне не нравится: рисует домик – получает замкнутый вей; добавляет внутренний двор – вей удаляется, создаётся ария; удаляет двор – получает арию там, где должен быть вей. В итоге
[17:10:08] <putnik> либо все полигоны становятся ариями, либо софт это разруливает и (не)прозрачно для пользователя убивает арии, создавая вместо них веи и теряя историю.
[17:10:15] <Zverik> нееееет
[17:10:16] <putnik> *пользователь рисует
[17:10:25] <putnik> =)
[17:10:39] <Zverik> рисует домик — получает area с одним ring, добавляет двор — добавляет второй ring
[17:10:58] <Zverik> линии way участвуют только для очень больших арий, типа костлайнов
[17:11:12] <putnik> А, т. е. смысл именно в том, чтобы _все_ полигоны стали ариями,
[17:11:15] <putnik> ,
[17:11:18] <putnik> ёпт
[17:11:25] <putnik> (это был вопрос)
[17:11:29] <Zverik> и замкнутый way перестанет обозначать арию, это будет лишь линия с концом в точке начала, вроде спортивного трека
[17:11:48] <putnik> Пойду ещё раз перечитаю.
[17:11:50] <Zverik> putnik: да, смысл в том, чтобы унифицировать все полигоны в одном типе, а не в трёх, как сейчас
[17:11:58] <Zverik> смотри «введение», первый раздел :)
[17:17:22] <freeExec> area:* можно будет выкинуть :)
[17:17:55] <Zverik> ага
[17:18:06] <putnik> Zverik, пример взорвал мне мозг. Почему у 1 стрелочка по часовой?
[17:18:18] <Zverik> putnik: потому что посмотри на код для него
[17:19:35] <putnik> Ох. Ещё чуть-чуть и я поддержу чувака, который писал «пропозал слишком сложный» =)
[17:20:39] <Zverik> putnik: тут дело в том, что линии можно разворачивать, но в area они должны идти строго в заданном направлении. Поэтому в случае 1, нарисованном не в ту сторону, reverse="true", в отличие от остальных
[17:21:08] <Zverik> этот флаг теоретически от пользователя должен скрываться редактором
[17:21:34] <Zverik> (для пользователя теоретически редактирование арии на точках не должно сильно отличаться от арии на ссылках)
[17:22:14] <freeExec> да, примеры с многоточиями не наглядные
[17:22:22] <putnik> Я же правильно понимаю, что сейчас разворот вея – это честный разворот вея?
[17:22:42] <freeExec> порядок точек же в вее
[17:23:14] <putnik> Ну, я к этому как раз. Делается инверсия порядка?
[17:23:55] <freeExec> ну да, а как ещё?
[17:24:23] <putnik> Ну вон, как у Zverik, всякими модификаторами.
[17:25:18] <putnik> Zverik, а почему не вариант, когда первый ринг – outer, остальные – inner?
[17:25:25] <freeExec> счас таких не предусмотрено, скрытое свойство только одно enable
[17:25:28] <Zverik> putnik: да, разворот — честно, инвертируется порядок точек.
[17:25:41] <Zverik> putnik: что делать с полигонами, в которых много outer?
[17:26:12] <freeExec> вообще такие даже сейчас как бы нехороши
[17:26:26] <putnik> Не очень представляю такие. Много веев в качестве outer – да, но ринги?
[17:26:31] <Zverik> freeExec: если они нехороши, как рисовать территорию государства с эксклавом?
[17:26:42] <Zverik> как два государства?
[17:26:52] <putnik> Как мультиполигон, не?
[17:28:31] <Zverik> так суть area — что мы хотим избавиться от мультиполигонов
[17:29:17] <Zverik> а превращать обычную area на точках в большую area на ссылках только из-за одного эксклава — не сильно отличается от превращения riverbank в мультиполигон только из-за того, что на реке 10 м² песка обнажилось, и это нужно нарисовать
[17:29:44] <Zverik> (я тут не буду ссылаться на модель Simple Features, потому что её все без меня знают, так?)
[17:30:34] * freeExec неа
[17:30:52] <putnik> Zverik, если обнажилось 10 м² песка, то это будет внутренний ринг.
[17:31:23] <Zverik> putnik: это отличается топологически, но не отличается разочарованием маппера: «блин, придётся всё менять теперь»
[17:33:03] <putnik> Zverik, да что менять-то? Была ария, добавился _внутренний_ ринг, всё ок. Разве так много случаев, когда нужно больше одного внешнего? Имхо они всё равно не очень тривиальны и вполне разруливаются мультиполигонами.
[17:33:16] <Zverik> в жизни встречаются вещи, которые суть единое целое, но находятся на расстоянии. Вроде парка, половинки которого лежат по разные стороны от железной дороги
[17:33:32] <Zverik> putnik: нужно понять, что мультиполигонов не будет
[17:34:07] <freeExec> т.е. из линий больше не собирается?
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[17:34:18] <Zverik> ты сейчас предлагаешь использовать костыль, вместо того, чтобы порадоваться, что новый тип избавляет от необходимости таких костылей
[17:34:49] <Zverik> freeExec: из линий собирается, но это сделано несколько для другого — например, для костлайнов
[17:35:48] <Zverik> насчёт Simple Features, там (и, следовательно, во всех geospatial db и гис-приложениях) полигоны могут содержать много внешних контуров
[17:35:54] <putnik> Мне пока не очевидно, что он ровно на 100 % избавит от их необходимости. А если меньше, то не вижу разницы. Если правда на 100, но смысл есть, конечно.
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[17:39:11] <Zverik> putnik: ну вот ты убеждаешь, что больше одного outer не нужно (и предлагаешь костыль, как обойти это — предложенное тобой — ограничение).
[17:39:16] <Zverik> я не понимаю, зачем
[17:43:09] <putnik> Zverik, потому что ты предлагаешь 1) ввести новые сущности, 2) усложнить существующие. Это хорошо только в том случае, если приведёт к избавлению от каких-то других (тех же мультиполигонов). Если всё равно не приведёт, то есть
[17:43:15] <putnik> резон не усложнять существующие сущности.
[17:43:44] <putnik> (простите за тавтологию)
[17:44:13] <Zverik> существующие сущности плохи. Это аксиома. Длинный, но неполный, список причин можно почитать здесь:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Future_of_Areas#Problems_with_the_current_approach
[17:44:40] <Zverik> тип area неизбежен, я пытаюсь найти наилучшее — в рамках технических ограничений и нашей модели данных — решение
[17:45:17] <Zverik> то есть да, тип area приведёт к избавлению от полигонов на замкнутых way, от мультиполигонов и от костлайнов, сведя их все в единую систему
[17:46:39] <putnik> Ну тогда ок, не прав.
[17:47:13] <[w]Komzpa> а теперь озёра костлайнами будут рисовать?
[17:47:23] <andrewsh> инверсными!
[17:47:45] <Zverik> ага
[17:47:59] <Zverik> конец спорам «чем рисовать Ладогу — костлайнами или мультиполигоном»
[17:48:19] <[w]Komzpa> мультикостлайном!
[17:48:31] <Zverik> коллекцией из мультикостлайнов, очевидно
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[18:00:49] <[w]Komzpa> Zverik: как валидировать веи, референсящие арию?
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[18:01:06] <Zverik> [w]Komzpa: там внизу целая глава про это
[18:01:24] <Zverik> по точкам, если кратко
[18:06:39] <freeExec> а у нас сейчас есть совместимость с api.05
[18:07:28] <[w]Komzpa> Zverik: а как заливать контур Евразии в базу из жосма?
[18:08:32] <Zverik> [w]Komzpa: зачем? в смысле, он уже есть, вроде?
[18:08:47] <Zverik> о котором use-case ты говоришь?
[18:08:55] <[w]Komzpa> Zverik: в смысле уже есть? он есть как куча костлайнов
[18:09:06] <[w]Komzpa> а вот заимплементят твою хрень
[18:09:13] <[w]Komzpa> и надо будет его залить.
[18:09:15] <[w]Komzpa> как?
[18:09:47] <Zverik> если создавать — ну залить один новый area и стопиццот новых way. Если по костлайнам — залить новый area и добавить все эти костлайны в него
[18:10:35] <[w]Komzpa> да, но проверка на валидность, помноженная на таймауты сети не даст тебе их залить
[18:11:28] <Zverik> проверка на валидность не должна быть сильно дольше проверки на количество точек в линиях
[18:12:05] <Zverik> про таймауты — можно сначала залить все линии и area, а затем в следующем ченджсете добавить линии в area
[18:12:07] <[w]Komzpa> я не про долготу, а про то, что чанк в 1000 веев будет невалиден
[18:12:45] <[w]Komzpa> мы про ареареф?
[18:13:05] <Zverik> ага
[18:13:43] <[w]Komzpa> чтобы добавить 100000 веев, делающих один аутер, надо их все заливать в один чанк
[18:13:53] <Zverik> ну да, ты прав. Надо подумать
[18:14:59] <[w]Komzpa> внешняя валидация это бы починила
[18:15:20] <[w]Komzpa> но тогда оно ничем не лучше того, что есть
[18:16:33] <Zverik> я не уверен, что это вообще можно решить
[18:16:48] <Zverik> можно обойти, конечно — составив несколько фиктивных outer, а затем их махом объединив
[18:26:15] <[w]Komzpa> Zverik: как объединив?
[18:26:45] <[w]Komzpa> лучше бы придумали ноды без тегов
[18:26:46] <Zverik> убрав распорки и добавив перемычки
[18:27:10] <Zverik> я уже предлагал simple features + теги + отношения для api 0.8 — отказались :)
[18:27:18] <[w]Komzpa> Zverik: ага, и как прописать id в одну из половинок?
[18:27:48] <Zverik> [w]Komzpa: так area могут состоять из кучи outer. Просто добавлять один контур за другим, а затем объединить кольца
[18:27:54] <andrewsh> [w]Komzpa: а что не так с нодами без тегов?
[18:28:21] <[w]Komzpa> andrewsh: их много и оверхедно
[18:28:28] <andrewsh> 16:26:45 < [w]Komzpa> лучше бы придумали ноды без тегов
[18:28:33] <andrewsh> я это не смог распарсить
[18:28:45] <andrewsh> пояснение запутало ещё больше
[18:28:59] <[w]Komzpa> andrewsh: типичный домик создаёт пять-семь объектов, хотя мог бы один
[18:32:32] <Zverik> как эту проблему ни решай, в базе данных всё одно будет, так что смысла нет
[18:35:11] <andrewsh> в дазе банных
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