#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-12-22

[00:00:18] <pcw_home> the drives input commons should connect to the 7I77s analog grounds (as pairs with AOUTs)
[00:00:40] <zeeshan> wait asec.
[00:00:48] <zeeshan> the vin and gnd @ the field power
[00:01:11] <zeeshan> isn't the gnd (-24vdc)
[00:01:37] <zeeshan> the same ground that should be going to the servo common ?
[00:01:40] <pcw_home> field power is completely isolated from system gnd
[00:01:50] <furrywolf> pcw: hopefully your boards are more reliable than the chinese breakout board I got, which exploded (of the burst pressure vessel variety, not the detonation variety) after 30mins of use...
[00:02:08] <pcw_home> it may be commoned but should have its own path
[00:02:25] <PetefromTn_> Heh I used to have a machine like that.
[00:03:11] <zeeshan> man i must be dumb
[00:03:15] <zeeshan> i dont understand what youre saying :/
[00:03:33] <zeeshan> i need to know in the 7i77 manual it says "The drives common or GND signal should be connected to the 7I77 power GND with a separate wire."
[00:03:44] <zeeshan> in the section "analog servo drive interface"
[00:03:50] <zeeshan> i need to know what is meant by that
[00:04:14] <zeeshan> there are no power ground terminals on the 7i77
[00:04:27] <zeeshan> except at field power
[00:04:31] <furrywolf> it means run a separate wire from each drive directly to the gnd pin on the board, with nothing else connected to it, to prevent noise issues
[00:04:39] <furrywolf> (at least that's my reading of it)
[00:04:45] <zeeshan> there is no ground pin on the board
[00:04:57] <zeeshan> AOUT3 is already going to ref +
[00:05:01] <zeeshan> gnd3 is going to ref-
[00:05:17] -!- koo5 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[00:05:26] <zeeshan> there is no pin for ground of servo drive to go to signal ground of 7i77
[00:05:29] -!- The_Ball [The_Ball!~ballen@] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:05:33] <zeeshan> i mean
[00:05:38] -!- MacGalempsy [MacGalempsy!~quassel@ip72-204-48-124.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:05:44] <zeeshan> there is no pin for signal ground of servo drive to go to ground of 7i77
[00:05:51] <furrywolf> in that case, I have no clue. :)
[00:05:52] <zeeshan> thats why that kinda threw me off
[00:05:56] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, the 5i24 looks alot like the 7i90 save the interface
[00:06:14] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure the D525 has a pcie slot
[00:06:19] <Tom_itx> for the 6i24
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[00:09:45] <pcw_home> For a differential input drive I would make sure the input common is grounded to frame ground at some point ( to establish the common mode)
[00:09:53] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[00:10:53] <zeeshan> i was hoping to keep all the 24vdc stuff
[00:10:54] <zeeshan> floaitng
[00:11:03] <zeeshan> thats why i have that wire drawing to -24vdc
[00:11:06] <zeeshan> *drawn
[00:11:46] * furrywolf gives up on finding used mesa boards, and sticks with software stepping for the forseeable future
[00:11:51] <pcw_home> you can (the 24V stuff is all isolated) so thers no reason to connect any of it to ground/drive commons etc
[00:12:20] <zeeshan> furry wolf
[00:12:25] <zeeshan> i asked you what type of machine ure building!
[00:12:29] <zeeshan> :P
[00:13:34] <furrywolf> zeeshan: and I said: > a very well used shoptask mill/lathe combo (see http://fw.bushytails.net/shoptask02.jpg ), used pacsci 940ozin nema34 steppers, used centent cn0165 drivers, used toughbook cf-29 laptop... and for now, software stepping! > either a pair of iota 24v supplies wired in series for 56v, or a homebrew 60v unregulated, not sure yet.
[00:14:01] <zeeshan> the problem with parallel port in that case is
[00:14:04] <zeeshan> you dont have enough i/o.
[00:14:17] <furrywolf> if I wire all the limit switches together, I have plenty. :)
[00:14:25] <zeeshan> how will you home the machine
[00:14:31] <zeeshan> if the limit switches are wired together?
[00:14:42] <furrywolf> I'll probably run without limit switches at first anyway... too many mounts to fab.
[00:14:48] <Tom_itx> tell it the home directon and wait for a fault
[00:14:59] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is doable apparently
[00:14:59] <furrywolf> linuxcnc will home to the limit switches, one axis at a time, as long as none of them are triggered when you start.
[00:15:24] <Tom_itx> you need to define the home order in that case
[00:15:31] <furrywolf> it just moves an axis until the limit/home pin trips, moves back, repeat on next axis.
[00:15:33] <furrywolf> yes
[00:15:37] <Tom_itx> so they don't all home at once
[00:15:54] <PetefromTn_> but I would not do it that way. Limits are last ditch emergency stop
[00:16:00] <furrywolf> but, as I said, I don't even plan on limits at first... especially since x/z needs two sets depending on if it's in lathe or mill mode...
[00:16:07] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: but they work that way
[00:16:12] <zeeshan> if any of the limit switches get hit
[00:16:16] <zeeshan> itll go in e mode
[00:16:33] <furrywolf> (with the tailstock and lathe chuck on, x/z has a lot less travel than with them removed)
[00:16:59] <PetefromTn_> I know it is a PIA but adding homes AND limits is the way to go and could save you some grief...
[00:17:34] <furrywolf> I'd probably have the homes in the exact same spot as the limits anyway...
[00:18:13] <furrywolf> the machine has no mounts for switches, and I really want to limit how much effort I put into a chinese machine, so it might never get any.
[00:18:15] <zeeshan> furry my lathe uses +x and +z
[00:18:20] <zeeshan> as limit/home switch :)
[00:18:21] <zeeshan> works fine
[00:18:29] <PetefromTn_> you can put a limit on the tailstock with a little flag like my new CNC lathe has.. that way it does not matter where the tailstock is.
[00:18:42] <zeeshan> oo PetefromTn_
[00:18:44] <furrywolf> pete: except for when you remove it entirely. :)
[00:18:59] <furrywolf> it's a lathe/mill combo machine
[00:19:05] <PetefromTn_> then you can setup a little bracket or something.
[00:19:17] <PetefromTn_> I am VERY familiar with the machine I owned one for years.
[00:19:38] <furrywolf> still have any parts for it? mine needs some. :)
[00:19:46] <PetefromTn_> nope sold it years ago.
[00:20:09] <furrywolf> mine either fell or got hit with a forklift (the story was re-told too many times and was hazy).
[00:20:18] <furrywolf> that's why it was within my budget.
[00:20:22] <PetefromTn_> honestly I think it would be a really neat little hobby CNC...
[00:20:39] <PetefromTn_> as a lathe with CNC and spindle encoder it would be a lot of fun
[00:20:40] <furrywolf> I think so too, especially since I have very limited space.
[00:20:45] <PetefromTn_> you could make a gang tool setup.
[00:21:10] <furrywolf> I plan on adding a spindle encoder, yes... especially since it came with exactly two thread change gears, rather than a dozen, a bracket to put them on, etc...
[00:21:16] <zeeshan> pcw_home: so you're telling me if i have only ref+ ref- connected along with ena+ for each drive
[00:21:23] <PetefromTn_> the mill kinda sucks but there are ways around that... you could buy or build the four post head lift like I was working on..
[00:21:25] <zeeshan> 7i77 and the drive will be able to communicate?
[00:21:31] <zeeshan> so basically i only need 3 wires.
[00:22:01] <PetefromTn_> or the big steel brackets that run to the tailstock end of the base like the Patriot machine has.
[00:22:06] <furrywolf> the biggest problem I've noticed with the mill part is the z axis is sloppy by design, and only has 3" of travel.
[00:22:24] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: can you explain this limit switch thing
[00:22:25] <zeeshan> for the tailstock?
[00:22:30] <furrywolf> the rack and pinion with a worm gear driving it has backlash in about six spots, only about two of which are adjustable.
[00:22:38] <zeeshan> you manually push the tailstock against the limit switch?
[00:23:13] <PetefromTn_> well the machine has home/limits for X and Z on the carriage
[00:23:41] <PetefromTn_> and the tailstock has a little flag that will contact the limit for Z no matter where the tailstock lies
[00:23:44] -!- Tecan [Tecan!~fasdf@unaffiliated/unit41] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:24:04] <furrywolf> the biggest mechanical problem I have is the stepper end of the x axis leadscrew has about a 15 degree bend in it... going to take some fun with my oxytorch and a hammer to make it run true.
[00:24:08] <PetefromTn_> It is actually a pretty sweet way to do it I would have never thought of had I not seen it.
[00:24:17] <pcw_home> zeeshan: no, you need to connect ena- to the drives signal common
[00:24:29] <PetefromTn_> does it have ballscrews?
[00:24:37] <furrywolf> no
[00:24:46] <PetefromTn_> I would save my pennies and get some
[00:25:00] <zeeshan> okay i think i get it now.
[00:25:04] <furrywolf> if I save my pennies, it'll be for a higher quality machine in better shape.
[00:25:14] <PetefromTn_> thats up to you for sure
[00:25:15] <zeeshan> so the aout3 and gnd3 are their own independent circuit
[00:25:17] <furrywolf> this one lived under a tarp after falling. it has broken things and rust...
[00:25:24] <zeeshan> while ena + and ena- is its own indpdenent circuit
[00:25:31] <pcw_home> yes
[00:25:31] <zeeshan> without having ena- connected to drive signal common
[00:25:36] <zeeshan> there would be no circuit
[00:25:36] <PetefromTn_> what is broken?
[00:25:43] <zeeshan> okay that makes sense, thank you :)
[00:26:27] <furrywolf> the bent leadscrew, the lathe motor tensioner, several handwheels and levers, all the screws holding the lathe belt housing to the machine body.
[00:27:09] <furrywolf> it's usable as-is as a manual mill... someone "carefully" sawzalled out a big jagged hole to let the bent end of the leadscrew wobble without hitting the sheetmetal. :)
[00:27:17] <furrywolf> (previous owner, not myself)
[00:28:09] <pcw_home> zeeshan: yep, you enable the drives by connecting the drives enable in to the drives signal common
[00:28:11] <pcw_home> (the ENA+ and ENA- are a floating switch that make the connection when enabled)
[00:28:24] <PetefromTn_> well you would most likely be replacing the screws with ballscrews, the lathe motor bracket as I recall is a simple affair and the screws are cheap to replace. It would be up to you to decide if it is the machine you want to have or not but none of that sounds too terrible especially if you got it for a good price.
[00:28:49] <PetefromTn_> handles would be removed with motor installation and not necessary after it is CNC
[00:29:04] <zeeshan> For active low enable drives, ENAN+ should go the the drive enable and ENAN- to control power ground
[00:29:08] <furrywolf> no, it doesn't sound too terrible. that's why I got it!
[00:29:10] <PetefromTn_> is it machined for steppers like a lot of them were?
[00:29:12] <zeeshan> i think thats what threw me off pcw.
[00:29:16] <zeeshan> i was thinking control power ground was -24vdc.
[00:29:21] <zeeshan> instead of ena-
[00:29:25] <zeeshan> er
[00:29:27] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: any idea how it got bent?
[00:29:29] <zeeshan> isntead of drive common ground.
[00:29:37] <zeeshan> im a noob :)
[00:29:39] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[00:29:54] <furrywolf> yep, it's ready to go for steppers, except for the bent leadscrew, mis-alignment of the box (the stepper mounts to it), and the broken (or so I was told - it didn't come with it) timing pulley for the bent leadscrew.
[00:30:26] <furrywolf> 95% of the work is going to be straightening the leadscrew, finding a matching timing pulley, and reattaching the box.
[00:30:34] <furrywolf> with 5% the motor tensioner and handwheels.
[00:30:55] <furrywolf> the threaded part is ok... it's only the last three inches, outside of the final bearing, that got bent. I plan to heat and hammer...
[00:30:57] <PetefromTn_> a seperate mill or lathe is of course a better option but you would be surprised how many parts I made on that little machine and it was not even CNC..
[00:30:57] <zeeshan> pics of your machine? :D
[00:31:07] <PetefromTn_> he posted it like three times now
[00:31:08] <zeeshan> pete is it true they are sloppy?
[00:31:16] <zeeshan> the mill/lathe combos
[00:31:20] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I pasted one already, and again when I re-pasted it to you.
[00:31:22] <PetefromTn_> define sloppy
[00:31:30] <zeeshan> can't hold a couple thou
[00:31:33] <furrywolf> this one is sloppy, but I wouldn't use it to suggest they all are.
[00:31:38] <zeeshan> and flexs a lot under 20-30 thou cuts
[00:31:41] <PetefromTn_> actually the lathe was quite decent
[00:31:46] <zeeshan> whoops he did post it
[00:31:50] <zeeshan> links show up as blue for me
[00:31:56] <PetefromTn_> the mill is kind of a compromise
[00:31:59] <zeeshan> on a black background, so i dont see them sometimes
[00:31:59] <zeeshan> haha
[00:32:04] <t12_> i found an ingot of babbitt metal at the fleamarket today
[00:32:11] <t12_> i should try pouring a little bearing
[00:32:19] <zeeshan> furrywolf: nice machine :)
[00:32:27] <zeeshan> very interesting looking
[00:32:47] <PetefromTn_> but with a careful setup and locking everything down tight it was not terrible. Not anywhere near as good as say my RF45 was..
[00:33:01] <zeeshan> what about your 12x36
[00:33:04] <zeeshan> in lathe operation mode
[00:33:06] <furrywolf> pete: I have a _lot_ of flex in the X (when milling) bracket, that attaches the leadscrew nuts to the carriage. it seems to be by design...
[00:33:23] <furrywolf> the bracket is C shaped, and twists whenever it's loaded.
[00:33:42] <PetefromTn_> no it is not anything like the 12x36 either
[00:34:08] <PetefromTn_> but again this is a relatively cheap 3 in 1 machine that takes up a fraction of the space of the other two machines.
[00:34:38] <furrywolf> bah, if I use separate switches, my plan of hiding all the extra wiring in the stepper motor wiring goes out the window... I got servo cable with a separately shielded pair that I was going to use for the limit switches, to only have one nice round cable. :)
[00:34:48] <PetefromTn_> I don't remember having any issues with the table on the mill.
[00:35:00] <PetefromTn_> it was the millhead and distance to the table that caused issues.
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[00:35:43] <furrywolf> heh, I got a mt3 spacer... it'll add slop and runout (and plenty of it), but it gets the tool somewhere near the table.
[00:36:04] <PetefromTn_> Like I said for a hobby machine it would be a lot of fun with the side effect that once you are finished you actually have a neat little gang tooled lathe AND a light duty CNC mill at the same time...
[00:36:47] <PetefromTn_> BTW what kind of 4x4 van is that?
[00:36:49] <furrywolf> it really should have about double the Z travel.
[00:37:00] <furrywolf> the od truck?
[00:37:02] <PetefromTn_> in mill mode?
[00:37:06] <furrywolf> yes
[00:37:29] <PetefromTn_> I thought it had like 5" or so as I recall maybe there is something wrong with it inside?
[00:37:30] <furrywolf> gah, why the hell do lathes use axi different from mills?
[00:37:36] <furrywolf> no, it only has 3".
[00:37:52] <PetefromTn_> is it a 1720 XMTC Gold model?
[00:38:02] <furrywolf> non-gold
[00:38:25] <zeeshan> furry they do?
[00:38:46] <zeeshan> both use right hand coordinate systems
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[00:39:04] <zeeshan> where your middle finger to pinky point to Z
[00:39:24] <furrywolf> zeeshan: x becomes z, y becomes x...
[00:39:36] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ktmarketing.com/quadraliftpictures.htm I was in the middle of building this lift system for the millhead when I got some cash and wound up selling the machine for an RF45 and 12x36 lathe.
[00:39:39] <zeeshan> furry its relative to the spindle.
[00:39:45] <zeeshan> axial in and out towards spindle is always z
[00:39:47] <zeeshan> in machine worlds
[00:40:00] <zeeshan> always = most of the time
[00:40:07] <zeeshan> im sure there is a machine out there that isn't conventional
[00:40:27] <furrywolf> heh, just found a forum thread saying that by far the easiest way to add limit switches to this machine is to glue them to rare earth magnets and just stick them on. :)
[00:40:43] <PetefromTn_> actually X stays the same, Y becomes Z is how I would do it.
[00:41:15] <furrywolf> that's one way to get some more Z travel!
[00:41:17] <zeeshan> furry i did mine in such a ghetto way
[00:41:33] <PetefromTn_> you would just have dual configs one for mill op and one for lathe op
[00:42:04] <furrywolf> is that just DOM tubing, or do you have some fancy bearings to make it slide without play?
[00:42:09] <zeeshan> ofcours ei cant find the pic
[00:42:10] <zeeshan> when i need to
[00:42:20] <PetefromTn_> they were ground rods..
[00:42:28] <PetefromTn_> it was quite heavy
[00:42:41] <furrywolf> the part that slides on them...
[00:42:41] <PetefromTn_> I had it all mocked up and ready to be automated when I finally sold it.
[00:43:43] <PetefromTn_> no actually this is not the Z axis really it is just a means to raise and lower the head and then you would use the 5" of travel for the Z... you raise or lower it and lock it in place at the height you need.
[00:43:48] <furrywolf> that machine is a lot newer and fancier than mine
[00:43:56] <PetefromTn_> The patriot lift is more a full time Z apparently...
[00:44:02] <PetefromTn_> sure
[00:44:13] <PetefromTn_> but it is almost exactly the same machine as far as I know.
[00:44:28] <furrywolf> not really... I think it's built pretty differently.
[00:45:00] <furrywolf> hrmm, or maybe it's just you have a bunch of covers covering all the exposed bits on mine, plus all the extra stuff for the dro.
[00:45:04] <PetefromTn_> Oh sorry you were asking about the tubing inside the bracket yeah it was DOM I used...
[00:45:29] <PetefromTn_> I also used a cylinder hone to get it close fitment and sliding easy.
[00:45:43] <PetefromTn_> Getting it all to slide and move smoothly from top to bottom was a bitch tho.
[00:46:09] <PetefromTn_> Keep in mind I did most of that machining on the machine itself..
[00:47:48] <furrywolf> no, there's a lot more differences... your carriage/saddle rotates, your x axis leadscrew bracket is a different shape, you apparantly have 2" more z travel, you have a lever sticking out of the belt box that I don't have and don't know what it does, your z axis rack/pinion is on the inside of the head while mine is on the outside...
[00:48:27] <furrywolf> it actually looks like there's very few parts in common
[00:49:24] <furrywolf> ignore the inside/outside bit, saw it wrong. heh.
[00:50:09] <PetefromTn_> the carriage rotating is kind of a bad thing honestly it was a source of flex that was not really needed.
[00:50:47] -!- Tom_L [Tom_L!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:50:49] <furrywolf> I'm sure it's wonderful if you don't cnc it. :)
[00:51:05] <furrywolf> cnc makes it a redundant axis.
[00:51:06] <PetefromTn_> the brackets for the screws are of no consequence really if you intend to add ballscrews you will be making new mounts for them
[00:51:20] <PetefromTn_> the Z travel is kind of a bitch tho..
[00:51:30] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, i can't find anything on the "%" character resetting defaults but rather indicating the start and end of a program.
[00:51:55] <furrywolf> I don't intend to add ballscrews. the condition and quality of the machine makes me not want to throw money at it.
[00:52:11] <PetefromTn_> as I recall that lever sticking out of the belt box was for a jackscrew setup
[00:52:32] <PetefromTn_> then why are you going to CNC it?
[00:52:50] <furrywolf> I think I can get some acceptable travel rates from the stock leadscrews... just testing one of the motors on the bench today, at 30V instead of the 56V I plan on, I got it to 9K rpm with decent acceleration...
[00:53:01] <furrywolf> because I suck at manual milling. :)
[00:53:06] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, Demarcating a file with percents is optional if the file has an M2 or M30 in it, but is required if not.
[00:53:10] <furrywolf> so if I'm going to have it at all, it's going to be cnc! heh
[00:53:43] <furrywolf> I do not have the patience required to make anything resembling within-tolerance cuts manually.
[00:53:59] <PetefromTn_> well It's up to you but I would personally not have a CNC mill without ballscrews they are cheap enough now it is not a big deal really...
[00:54:33] <furrywolf> I got the mill for $100... ballscrew kits run several times that from what I've seen, plus lots of labor.
[00:55:01] <PetefromTn_> plus motors, drives, PC, breakout boards, tooling, software, etc. etc. etc.
[00:55:06] <furrywolf> it even came on the orange rolling cart, which is good, because I have no place to put it, so it lives in the aisle in my storage unit, and I can roll it out when I need to actually walk down the aisle. :)
[00:55:55] <furrywolf> everything except the breakout board (I'm not going to abbreviate it to bob, because I always think of a different one of my motorized devices) I bought used, and the software is free.
[00:55:57] <PetefromTn_> nothing cheap about building a CNC even when it is cheap parts...
[00:56:14] <furrywolf> got the laptop for $33.... a waterproof toughbook, that I can dump chips on, and then hose them off. :)
[00:57:07] <PetefromTn_> Well good luck with it all man.
[00:57:30] <furrywolf> I was washing it off (it came pretty dirty) when the mailman showed up with a package... the look on his face was utterly priceless. everything should get a toughbook just for amusement value. :)
[00:57:40] <furrywolf> everyone
[00:58:20] <furrywolf> I don't have a lot of money... I really can't just throw money on things for the sake of having nice things...
[00:58:30] * SpeedEvil knows how that works.
[00:59:30] <furrywolf> my sherline (also $100!) has limit switches, and I've never once tripped one except intentionally when homing. heh.
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[01:00:21] <furrywolf> my next big purchase is going to have to be batteries for my solar system... one died a couple weeks ago, and the other identical one I got at the same time is on its way out... when it goes I'll have a hard time making 24v.
[01:00:50] <SpeedEvil> :/
[01:01:11] <SpeedEvil> i had a lovely idea for making my own batteries
[01:01:22] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature13700.html
[01:01:24] <SpeedEvil> based off that
[01:01:39] <SpeedEvil> Yes, they need to operate at 450C under argon - but it's quite doable
[01:01:56] <SpeedEvil> I couldn't work out how to stop them exploding if jostledthough.
[01:01:59] <furrywolf> lol
[01:02:12] <furrywolf> that's ok, just sell them for stationary applications only. :P
[01:02:39] <SpeedEvil> And the result would be a cloud of Lithium/lead/antimony vapour glowing white hot at 12 bar or so. With fluorine and chlorine added in for extra fun
[01:02:47] <furrywolf> liquid lithium is something I try to avoid working with.
[01:03:30] <SpeedEvil> It was something I could realistically make 10kWh of - for cheaper than I can buy lead-acid batteries
[01:04:02] <furrywolf> you can buy pure lithium metal cheaply?
[01:04:10] <SpeedEvil> Surprisingly.
[01:04:24] <SpeedEvil> Well - you go to your local chemical supplier -and $100/10g.
[01:04:37] <furrywolf> I was looking at lithium hydroxide for some of my batteries, and while it wasn't super expensive, it wasn't cheap either.
[01:04:38] <SpeedEvil> But, vendors in china will ship you 2kg for $180 or so.
[01:05:03] <furrywolf> yeah, that's not cheap, unless these batteries use a lot less than it sounds like.
[01:05:05] <SpeedEvil> which is only about double spot
[01:05:12] <SpeedEvil> 2kg is about 10kWh worth
[01:05:47] <SpeedEvil> The best thing about the above battery - as it's all liquid - and under argon - there is no real wear mechanism.
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[01:06:04] <furrywolf> I'm still using my lead-acid batteries... making my ni-fe work is more money than I have...
[01:06:53] <SpeedEvil> :/
[01:07:19] <SpeedEvil> Local minima suck.
[01:07:29] <SpeedEvil> Why LiOH - I thought it was KaOh
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[01:09:09] <furrywolf> KOH with a bit of LiOH.
[01:09:26] <furrywolf> apparantly the lioh improves efficiency and cycle life
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[01:16:54] <SpeedEvil> ah
[01:22:52] <furrywolf> bbl, going to head to the store.
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[01:59:36] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0I-76_pHLQ#t=101 Interesting...
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[02:10:21] <zeeshan> http://projects.dimension-x.net/pictures/techproj/max1668/crimped_pin.jpg
[02:10:24] <zeeshan> is this a molex kk pin?
[02:13:07] <jdh> I have a bunch of those
[02:13:19] <Tom_itx> me too but i forget what they're called
[02:13:25] <jdh> molex pins
[02:13:30] <zeeshan> cant say molex man
[02:13:32] <Tom_itx> series
[02:13:36] <zeeshan> molex makes 290231123 different pins
[02:13:37] <zeeshan> hehe
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[02:14:32] <jdh> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/08-56-0110/WM1129-ND/417329
[02:14:35] <jdh> I have those
[02:15:36] <zeeshan> holy shit
[02:15:38] <zeeshan> those are expensive
[02:15:42] <zeeshan> 83 cents for a pin
[02:15:42] <zeeshan> haha
[02:18:28] <jdh> gold plated
[02:19:00] <zeeshan> tom seriously jinxed me
[02:19:05] <zeeshan> this is gonna be my 3rd digikey order
[02:19:08] <zeeshan> rofl
[02:19:16] <furrywolf> I bought some pins for $2.40 each last week.
[02:19:26] <zeeshan> jdh
[02:19:27] <zeeshan> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0008550130/WM9728TR-ND/3071524
[02:19:29] <zeeshan> these are gold plated
[02:19:34] <zeeshan> but "tape and reel" package
[02:19:41] <jdh> too painful
[02:19:47] <zeeshan> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0008550102/WM2312-ND/172056
[02:19:48] <zeeshan> here we go
[02:19:50] <zeeshan> gold plated also
[02:19:51] <jdh> they have to fit in the connector and they are a bitch to cut
[02:19:54] <zeeshan> but 27 cents
[02:20:35] <jdh> I got the tape and reel the first order.
[02:20:44] <jdh> being cheap is expensive
[02:21:31] <furrywolf> of course, my $2.40 connectors were for 2awg wire and rated for 175A..
[02:21:37] <furrywolf> $2.40 terminals
[02:22:14] <jdh> mine have pretty much no current, 50mV, and are used in 100% humidity.
[02:22:28] <zeeshan> molex is racist
[02:22:31] <zeeshan> calling these kk.
[02:22:42] <zeeshan> i dont see where they got k
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[02:24:55] <Tom_itx> do you enter Max Interval or Max Jitter in the BASE_PERIOD and SERVO_PERIOD in the ini file?
[02:25:15] <Tom_itx> i think i've got mine set a bit too high
[02:25:46] <furrywolf> neither, I think. you enter a number sufficiently over the sum of your max jitter and your drive's timing needs.
[02:26:28] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/install/Latency_Test.html
[02:26:52] <Tom_itx> The important numbers are the max jitter. In the example above, that is 9075 nanoseconds, or 9.075 microseconds. Record this number, and enter it in Stepconf when it is requested.
[02:27:23] <Tom_itx> leads me to believe i enter max jitter
[02:28:40] <furrywolf> you also need to add the hold timing requirements of your drivers.
[02:29:03] <Tom_itx> i'm using mesa cards
[02:29:18] <Tom_itx> in fact they don't use BASE_THREAD
[02:29:33] <Tom_itx> err BASE_PERIOD
[02:30:08] <furrywolf> dunno then.
[02:30:13] <jfigie> If you don't use a BASE_THREAD i think you enter 0 in the ini file that is what the sim file has
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[02:30:43] <Tom_itx> i left base_period out
[02:30:50] <Tom_itx> just using SERVO_PERIOD
[02:31:21] <JP1> Hmm would it be possibile to use COMP to change the output pins of a axis from an M code?
[02:31:22] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[02:33:00] <jfigie> I am wondering if Meas 5i24 or 6i24 is supported by linuxcnc. Integrator manual does not have them listed but says this is not a complete list check the hostmot2-firmware distribution for up to date lists. So where do I go to check?
[02:33:11] <Tom_itx> jfigie it is
[02:33:11] <jfigie> Mesa*
[02:33:30] <Tom_itx> ask pcw_home
[02:33:44] <Tom_itx> or check their website for supporting software
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[02:35:34] <pcw_home> They are supported by master and probably 2.7
[02:36:17] <pcw_home> maybe even 2.6 not sure, support was added fairly early this year
[02:36:18] <atom1> same with the 7i90 ?
[02:36:27] <pcw_home> Yeah
[02:36:41] <Tom_itx> so i should plan on moving to 2.6
[02:37:41] <Tom_itx> what ver is cradek using on his arm board with it?
[02:38:10] <Tom_itx> that's probably something he patched in
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[02:38:53] <jfigie> so are all the files in the folder "hostmot2" for a particular mesa bd supported or usable with linuxcnc?
[02:39:04] <Tom_itx> yes
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[02:39:30] <jfigie> by folder hostmot2 I mean the one on Mesa website for the card of interest
[02:39:33] <Tom_itx> well i would thing so
[02:39:49] <Tom_itx> hostmot2 runs under linuxcnc so.... yes
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[02:53:11] <pcw_home> hm2_spi is in master (but likely rather host specific)
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[02:54:45] <pcw_home> I think it uses the spidev driver but jepler needed to patch a number or realtime botches in the driver
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[03:07:04] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/U2Eia7w.png
[03:07:10] <zeeshan> can i use p1-15 bottom right
[03:07:12] <zeeshan> (monitor ground)
[03:07:13] <zeeshan> as a shield ground ?
[03:08:53] <jfigie> I would not it is connected to chassis ground by a 20K resistor. That would not make a good shield termination.
[03:10:38] <zeeshan> hehe
[03:10:47] <zeeshan> it drives me insane
[03:10:52] <zeeshan> that none of these moronic drive manufacturers
[03:11:00] <zeeshan> give a shield ground path
[03:11:12] <zeeshan> the only one i've seen with a shield ground path is
[03:11:22] <zeeshan> bosch
[03:11:25] * zeeshan is angry
[03:11:27] <jfigie> Actually I see 3 different ground symbols used on the schematic
[03:11:43] <zeeshan> yes triangle is isolated floating grond
[03:11:44] <zeeshan> ground
[03:12:02] <jfigie> Isolated common, common and chassis
[03:12:04] <zeeshan> the 3 line ground doesn't connect to chassis
[03:12:09] <zeeshan> or earth
[03:12:42] <zeeshan> earth is only connected to the metal chassis
[03:12:57] <zeeshan> so that means i need to run the shield ground wire all the way 5 away
[03:13:02] <zeeshan> 5" from where the connector is
[03:13:27] <jfigie> often shields are connected to chassis
[03:15:03] <zeeshan> yes
[03:15:10] <zeeshan> its just that the chassis ground screw
[03:15:13] <zeeshan> is 5" away from my connector
[03:15:19] <zeeshan> so you have this bare wire floating in space
[03:15:20] <zeeshan> for 5"
[03:15:23] <zeeshan> that makes me upset
[03:16:05] <zeeshan> im mostly upset because i dont have enough 2c 22 sh wire
[03:16:11] <zeeshan> so that 5" is a big deal
[03:16:11] <zeeshan> haha
[03:16:38] <zeeshan> and none of my cat5e cable is shielded
[03:17:38] <jfigie> 5" of wire from the shield is long. Not good for high frequency noise.
[03:17:56] <zeeshan> 5" of shield ground wire
[03:18:00] <zeeshan> not unshielded wire
[03:18:15] <jfigie> yes that is what if meant
[03:18:35] <zeeshan> just to triple check
[03:18:36] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/h5PDqhQ.png
[03:18:50] <zeeshan> the wire that goes from shield around analog+/- wire
[03:19:06] <zeeshan> to chassis gnd
[03:19:20] <zeeshan> youre saying that being exposed makes it suspetible to high frequency noise?
[03:21:45] <Connor> zeeshan: Remember, Only ground 1 side of the shielding.
[03:21:50] <zeeshan> connor yes
[03:22:01] <zeeshan> connor arent you using cat5
[03:22:06] <zeeshan> for your signal wiring
[03:22:06] <jfigie> If the shield ends and goes into a long wire. The wire has inductance.
[03:23:48] <Connor> No. I'm not. I use 18 gauge stranded 4 conductor shielded wire for steppers and step/dir signals. everything else is 24 / 26 gauge individual wire.
[03:24:40] <zeeshan> jfigie: i calculate that a 5" wire ,22awg
[03:24:44] <zeeshan> has 150 nH inductance..
[03:25:03] <zeeshan> at 1000Mhz
[03:25:20] <zeeshan> looks like it doesnt change much with frequency
[03:25:32] * zeeshan is using an odd formula :)
[03:25:43] <zeeshan> connor wait a sec
[03:25:44] <jfigie> I think for low frequency analog differential signals like the analog inputs the shield termination with a long wire is probably OK and it may only need to be connected at one end.
[03:25:59] <zeeshan> you're running the enable pair and step dir pair
[03:26:00] <zeeshan> in 1 cable?
[03:26:19] <Connor> No. Just step/dir
[03:26:25] <zeeshan> ah okay
[03:26:27] <jfigie> Are you using the isolation in the servo drive?
[03:26:47] <Connor> Enable was separate.. But, I'm not even using those now..
[03:26:48] <zeeshan> jlfge yes
[03:26:51] <zeeshan> dont wanna fry the 7i77
[03:27:09] <jfigie> For thing like motor power wires if you are using shielded cable then you should ground shield at both ends
[03:27:09] <zeeshan> connor ah okay
[03:27:34] <jfigie> For high speed digital signals shield needs to be grounded at both ends
[03:27:51] <zeeshan> hmm
[03:27:56] <zeeshan> says not to do that inthe servo manual
[03:28:35] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/A6i2T43.png
[03:30:04] <jfigie> Interesting. I guess I would follow the manual. The drive we make where I work require the motor shield to be grounded at both ends.
[03:30:23] <zeeshan> maybe the motor housing ground
[03:30:27] <zeeshan> doesnt go to a single point earth?
[03:30:32] <zeeshan> i mean single point ground
[03:30:49] * zeeshan doesnt know :)
[03:31:05] <jfigie> Motor housing are required to be connected to earth
[03:32:31] <jfigie> If the shield is connected at only one end there may be problems with conducted and radiated emissions. But that is something you probably dont need to worry about
[03:43:05] <zeeshan> jfigie: your wires
[03:43:09] <zeeshan> going from your interpolator board
[03:43:13] <zeeshan> to your mesa card
[03:43:18] <zeeshan> were they shielded?
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[03:43:46] <Tom_L> http://traktoria.org/files/electronics/grounding/wiring_grounding_and_shielding_techniques.pdf
[03:45:45] <zeeshan> tom thats interesting
[03:45:52] <zeeshan> according to that
[03:45:55] <Tom_L> i thought so
[03:45:56] <zeeshan> all you need to do is twist em
[03:45:57] <zeeshan> and thats it.
[03:46:47] <Tom_L> http://www.kbelectronics.com/tech_bulletins/proper-wiring-kb-speed-controls.htm
[03:46:52] <Tom_L> you can compare notes
[03:47:17] <furrywolf> twisting is what makes cat5 work...
[03:48:43] <furrywolf> I'm using 16/4 shielded for drivers... step, dir, +5V, and driver fault. shield grounded at the breakout board end.
[03:49:23] <furrywolf> I figure I might as well e-stop it if any of the drivers reports a fault. (overtemp, shorted motor, etc)
[03:49:41] <zeeshan> i really like that first pdf you posted
[03:49:46] <zeeshan> its nice and simply explained
[03:49:59] <jfigie> zesshan: wire from heidnehain bd to mesa bds were shielded but these are digital signal
[03:50:16] <zeeshan> jfigie: im wondering how you wired it.
[03:50:33] <zeeshan> did you use route a \a b
[03:50:38] <zeeshan> \b z z\
[03:50:40] <jfigie> for analog signals like the +/- 10 V and tach signals the shield is only grounded at one end
[03:50:42] <zeeshan> as twisted pairs in 1 cable?
[03:51:11] <zeeshan> 1 shielded cable that ius
[03:51:14] <zeeshan> *is
[03:51:32] <furrywolf> also, if you're wiring servos, I bought some of http://www.ebay.com/itm/221263730386 - it's really nice.
[03:51:41] <jfigie> I just used shielded twisted pair wires and I used the shield for the common between the analog bd and the mesa bds.
[03:51:51] <zeeshan> servo wires are already on the machine
[03:51:56] <zeeshan> im leaving it how they came :)
[03:52:15] <furrywolf> that works too. :P
[03:52:31] <zeeshan> jfigie: question is
[03:52:35] <zeeshan> shielded each pair
[03:52:38] <zeeshan> or all 3 pairs
[03:52:48] <zeeshan> :)
[03:52:51] <jfigie> +/- 10V for controlling the velocity of the drives goes from mesa 7i77? to the drives in shielded twisted pair
[03:52:57] <zeeshan> cause if you did all 3 pairs, then i can use cat 5
[03:53:00] <jfigie> grounded at only one end
[03:53:16] <jfigie> I used microphone wire
[03:53:28] <furrywolf> I first bought some cheaper stuff on ebay, claiming to be servo cable, and the seller sent me speaker wire/alarm/communications cable/something else that was stiff, coarse stranded, and had paper thin insulation. yay ebay.
[03:53:31] <jfigie> only 2 pairs + shield
[03:53:53] <zeeshan> i hope we're talking about the same thing
[03:54:04] <jfigie> mine used foil shield + bare drain wire
[03:54:04] <furrywolf> zee: separate things should generally have separate shields, especially if you're putting power and signal in one bundle.
[03:54:10] <zeeshan> im talking about the a b z differential digital signals coming out of heidenhain interpolator
[03:54:20] <zeeshan> that goes to the 7i77 encoder inputs
[03:54:37] <furrywolf> you might want to see what the manufacturer suggests? :)
[03:54:39] <zeeshan> the 5v and ground single will be shielded together
[03:54:43] <zeeshan> furrywolf: it doesnt say :(
[03:55:07] <zeeshan> i know for the analog side of the signal they had an internal and external shield
[03:55:12] <zeeshan> but on the output (digital side)
[03:55:14] <jfigie> yes I used shielded wire for encoder signals because they are digital, high speed and traveled serveral feet
[03:55:17] <zeeshan> theres no mention of shielding.
[03:55:23] <Tom_L> When shielding wires, connect only one end of the shield,
[03:55:23] <Tom_L> preferably the source end. Connecting both ends of a shield will
[03:55:23] <Tom_L> result in ground loo
[03:56:01] <Tom_L> ps.
[03:56:07] <jfigie> but if it is a high speed signal the shield needs to be connected at both ends
[03:56:21] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/QPd16Km.png
[03:56:26] <zeeshan> look at that plz :D
[03:56:37] <zeeshan> input is the analog side coming from the glass scales.
[03:56:42] <zeeshan> output is after the interpolator board
[03:57:37] <zeeshan> 1 is phase a, 2 is phase b, 0 is phase z.
[03:57:57] <furrywolf> I'd shield the analog stuff separately, assuming it's quite low level... buffered digital stuff can probably all share a shield.
[03:57:58] <jfigie> but here you have differential signals
[03:58:15] <zeeshan> the analog stuff i cant control
[03:58:21] <zeeshan> its a factory wire coming from the glass scale
[03:58:26] <zeeshan> its just 1 cable. with multiple pairs
[03:58:31] <zeeshan> but it has internal and external shielding.
[03:58:39] <zeeshan> each pair has an internal shield.
[03:58:42] <furrywolf> or used twisted pair, making sure each a/b pair is on a pair in the cable.
[03:58:45] <jfigie> so it is different than the output of the heidenhain bd. I my case the signals are just TTL single ended so I need a good returen
[03:58:46] <zeeshan> and the whole cable has an external shield
[03:58:52] <Tom_L> http://www.celectronics.com/seminar/sample/IEEE11-9-05.pdf
[03:58:52] <furrywolf> ok, so they did it the way I'd have done it. :P
[03:58:59] <zeeshan> yes :)
[03:59:24] <furrywolf> as a general rule, as long as you can still fit the cable in the connectors, you can't have too good of shielding. :P
[03:59:26] <zeeshan> i just realized
[03:59:29] <zeeshan> this shielded wire i bought is a pos
[03:59:32] <zeeshan> its not even twisted.
[03:59:43] <furrywolf> ebay / big box store?
[03:59:47] <zeeshan> big box store
[03:59:48] <zeeshan> lol
[04:00:00] <zeeshan> home depot special
[04:00:04] <furrywolf> home dep
[04:00:05] <furrywolf> lol
[04:00:09] <furrywolf> I was going to say that...
[04:00:25] <Tom_L> http://iamechatronics.com/notes/general-engineering/237-electrical-signal-and-control-wiring
[04:00:26] <furrywolf> they've also been caught selling aluminum wire as copper wire.
[04:00:31] <Tom_L> you might find that one useful
[04:00:40] <zeeshan> http://iamechatronics.com/images/CommonImgs/GenEng/Instrumentation_Connections/Signal_Control_Wiring_Fig_027.JPG
[04:00:45] <zeeshan> sexy wiring
[04:01:20] <zeeshan> i dont use ferrules in the screwless blocks
[04:01:31] <furrywolf> tom: it's not very useful with an empty (except for some title about facebook) white box with no way to close it covering the page.
[04:01:34] <zeeshan> it takes a good 20 lb of force
[04:01:37] <zeeshan> to rip the strands out
[04:01:51] <Tom_L> furrywolf, spank your brouser
[04:01:51] <zeeshan> i bet ferrules would be better. maybe i should use ferrules :/
[04:02:09] <furrywolf> I'm guessing it contains some kind of useless garbage that adblock is making go away. :P
[04:02:42] <furrywolf> I have half a moving box of din rail terminal blocks like that in storage somewhere...
[04:02:59] <zeeshan> for ferrules do you _have_ to use a crimper like this:
[04:02:59] <zeeshan> https://www.google.ca/search?q=ferrule+crimper&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=45eXVN7DIoSfyQSK_ICYAw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1099
[04:03:06] <zeeshan> the round style
[04:03:19] <zeeshan> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1466900493/NEW-0-25-6mm2-font-b-Terminal-b-font-font-b-Crimping-b-font-font-b.jpg
[04:04:08] <furrywolf> tinning is cheaper. :)
[04:04:24] <zeeshan> that's true :)
[04:04:50] <furrywolf> I have a lot of crimpers, but not one of those.
[04:05:03] <furrywolf> I have crimpers for everything from teeeeeeny tiny connector pins through 750mcm. :)
[04:05:25] <zeeshan> http://www.amazon.ca/GB-GS-388-8-Inch-Crimping-Electrical/dp/B00079LN1Y
[04:05:30] <zeeshan> i have a few styles
[04:05:33] <zeeshan> i think this style might do ferrules too
[04:05:38] <ssi> OMG I LOVE CRIMPERS
[04:05:49] <ssi> I have so many crimpers
[04:05:51] <zeeshan> ssi will this styler do ferrules?
[04:06:06] <ssi> eh
[04:06:07] <ssi> not well
[04:06:11] <ssi> hang on
[04:06:43] <Connor> zeeshan: I have a crimper that crimps them flat.. it's for coax or something.. but.. it works. :)
[04:06:49] <jdh> I have weidmuller ferrule crimpers. works great
[04:06:51] <ssi> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Wiring_Solutions/Wire_End_Connectors/Wire_Stripping_-a-_Crimping_Tools/DN-CT-D4
[04:06:52] <zeeshan> haha
[04:06:55] <ssi> you want that die
[04:06:57] -!- postaL has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
[04:06:59] <ssi> and their nice ratcheting crimper
[04:07:20] <furrywolf> http://store.crimptools.com/thomas-betts-crimping-tools/5128-13642m-hydraulic-crimp-head-ms25441-1-mfg-thomas-betts-condition-new-surplus-thomas-amp-betts-hydraulic-crimp-head-uses-intercha.html when I have to crimp big lugs. :)
[04:07:53] <ssi> I have a hammer-crimper for big lugs, but I have a friend with a hydraulic one I can borrow now
[04:08:07] <ssi> in the past when I needed battery cables made up I had another friend make them at delta for me :D
[04:08:12] -!- JP1 [JP1!~JP@CPE602ad0876aca-CM602ad0876ac7.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has parted #linuxcnc
[04:08:13] <zeeshan> me too
[04:08:18] <zeeshan> hammer one works good
[04:08:21] <ssi> yea it's ok
[04:08:24] <zeeshan> does it leave a square dimple?
[04:08:32] <zeeshan> theres 2 styles i have
[04:08:36] <ssi> it's more like a triangle with notches
[04:08:39] <zeeshan> one is an \/
[04:08:41] <ssi> yeah
[04:08:44] <zeeshan> the other is \___/
[04:08:50] <zeeshan> big _____
[04:08:56] <zeeshan> like 1/4"
[04:09:06] <furrywolf> I have the t&b one which uses square-shaped hex crimp dies, and a burndy hypress which uses round-shaped hex crimp dies...
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[04:09:44] <ssi> btw you all need one of these
[04:09:44] <ssi> http://www.dmctools.com/store/catalog.asp?PRODUCT_ID=557174&BACK=%2Fstore%2Fcatalog%2Easp%3FKEYWORD%3Dafm8
[04:09:55] <ssi> and the appropriate positioners for D-sub
[04:09:55] <furrywolf> http://www.specialized.net/Specialized/Y35-Burndy-HYPRESS-Hydraulic-Crimper--Hydraulic-Crimping-Tool-6424.aspx
[04:09:59] <ssi> will change your life :D
[04:10:04] <furrywolf> it's currently out of order due to needing new pump seals
[04:10:04] <zeeshan> you guys are crimping nerds
[04:10:04] <zeeshan> jeez
[04:10:07] <zeeshan> all these crimping tools
[04:10:09] <ssi> YES
[04:10:12] <ssi> SO MANY CRIMPING TOOLS
[04:10:13] <jdh> I have that DMC at work
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[04:10:14] <zeeshan> hahaha
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[04:10:24] <zeeshan> the only crimper i thought that was bad ass
[04:10:29] <zeeshan> was the hydraulic one at eaton
[04:10:31] <zeeshan> for 2000 mcm cable
[04:10:35] <ssi> EATON ICE CREAM
[04:10:41] <zeeshan> lemme show you!
[04:10:47] <furrywolf> zee: just wait until you waste a week tracking down a problem that turns out to be a crappy crimp hidden inside something. then you'll make sure you have the right tool too. :P
[04:10:52] <ssi> 2000 1900?
[04:10:57] <zeeshan> oh trust me furry i know
[04:11:04] <zeeshan> race car harneses
[04:11:05] <furrywolf> 2000mcm? fun. I only have dies up to 750mcm. I've never used the largest one. :P
[04:11:11] <zeeshan> failed ground terminal = aslkjasdkjsadlksadjlkasdjlasdjk
[04:11:11] <ssi> furrywolf: I build airplanes
[04:11:15] <ssi> I have lots of crimp tools :P
[04:11:38] <furrywolf> race car harnesses.... crimped with harbor freight pliers, and the wires fall out as soon as you tough them? or do you mean real race cars, not the ones at the local drag strip? :P
[04:11:45] <furrywolf> s/tough/touch
[04:11:57] <zeeshan> not a joe schmoe wiring harness
[04:12:05] <zeeshan> and certainly not the ricer brand painless harness :)
[04:12:16] <zeeshan> though painless does make some decent stuff :)
[04:12:22] <furrywolf> ssi: I have that crimper, but with a little spinny wheel thing on the back side to properly position different contacts.
[04:12:33] <ssi> furrywolf: yeah that's the positioner
[04:12:40] <ssi> there's dozens of different ones for different pins
[04:12:48] <zeeshan> i cant find the crimper photo
[04:12:49] <zeeshan> but idid find this
[04:12:50] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/3FC67967-6C17-494D-A3A7-FD9E7292EE55-2301-0000022C0117D1D9_zpsb6c30cb5.jpg
[04:12:51] <zeeshan> lol
[04:12:52] <ssi> I have the crimper in a pelican box with eight positioners
[04:12:56] <zeeshan> guess that cable size
[04:13:03] <furrywolf> mine's a lot older though, and doesn't have as many shiny bits.
[04:13:13] <ssi> I only use three of them, the K13 for D-sub, male and female, and the K41 and K42 which do male and female high density dsub
[04:13:30] <ssi> if yours is the turret with three holes that are red, green, and blue
[04:13:34] <ssi> then it's the AF8, the big one
[04:13:36] <ssi> and I have that one too :P
[04:13:37] <furrywolf> I still find myself using my old t&b sta-kon crimper for 95% of crimping. :)
[04:14:01] <furrywolf> 1200mcm
[04:14:04] <zeeshan> no way
[04:14:05] <zeeshan> lol
[04:14:13] <zeeshan> its 2" in diameter
[04:14:18] <zeeshan> its slightly over 2000mcm
[04:14:22] <zeeshan> i think 2500
[04:14:28] <furrywolf> heh
[04:14:30] <zeeshan> i lifted one of those cables
[04:14:38] <zeeshan> they're effing heavy
[04:14:46] <ssi> zeeshan: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5bpKgGIQAALxXA.jpg:large
[04:14:47] <ssi> WING BITS
[04:14:52] <zeeshan> thats about 1500 lb of wire tehre
[04:14:52] <ssi> got all the wood for them
[04:15:07] <zeeshan> nice!
[04:15:13] <zeeshan> youve been busy in the shop
[04:15:13] <zeeshan> :C
[04:15:16] <ssi> always
[04:15:22] <ssi> finished up the upholstery for the cherokee tonight
[04:15:30] <ssi> been donig some rifle work on the southbend
[04:15:39] <furrywolf> http://www.specialized.net/Specialized//Assets/ProductImages/272X190_PLI.jpg rarely the perfect tool, but they're indestructable, comfortable, and crimp tight.
[04:15:52] <ssi> fixed the brakes and the fuel pump on the pitts
[04:15:58] <zeeshan> thats the one ihave
[04:15:58] <zeeshan> :D
[04:16:07] <ssi> next weekend I'll probably start building the pitts wings
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[04:17:31] * furrywolf has done very little work on aircraft
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[04:17:38] <zeeshan> my gox
[04:17:40] <zeeshan> god
[04:17:41] <furrywolf> aircraft are expensive.
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[04:17:46] <zeeshan> 1000' of cat5e shielded
[04:17:47] <zeeshan> $50
[04:17:47] <zeeshan> haha
[04:17:48] <ssi> depends on how you do it
[04:18:09] <furrywolf> zee: be wary of fake wire. there's been a lot of fake wire lately, including cat5.
[04:18:29] <furrywolf> if I had the time and money, I'd love building a skyjeep kit. :P
[04:18:44] * furrywolf wants a plane that takes off in 50ft!
[04:19:07] <ssi> yeah me too, but I'd probably be looking at a superstol
[04:19:12] <zeeshan> is all cat5e solidwire?
[04:19:20] <ssi> no
[04:19:25] <furrywolf> no, some is stranded
[04:19:28] <zeeshan> how do you find out
[04:19:33] <furrywolf> and some of the fake stuff is ALUMINUM.
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[04:20:27] <furrywolf> ssi: http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/index1.html
[04:20:35] <ssi> yea I'm familiar with the zenith
[04:20:59] <ssi> actually the plane I got my license in was an alarus ch2000, which is a certified version of a zenith
[04:21:28] <ssi> http://www.zenair.com/ch-2000-vla-index.html
[04:22:33] <ssi> I've been building an RV-7 for the last almost eight years :/
[04:22:40] <ssi> and now I'm building a Pitts S-1-SS
[04:22:40] <zeeshan> connor did you not buy your shielded twisted pair from homedepot?
[04:23:14] <Connor> zeeshan: I got the 4 pair 18 gauge shield from Home Depot. yes.. but.. not twisted pair.
[04:23:21] <zeeshan> ah
[04:23:25] <zeeshan> :/
[04:23:25] <Connor> again, I'm not using any twisted pair.
[04:23:29] <furrywolf> getting a license is one of the many parts of flying (i.e. all of them) that I can't afford.
[04:23:37] <zeeshan> where the heck do you buy 2 conductor twisted pair
[04:23:38] <zeeshan> shielded wire
[04:23:41] <ssi> nobody can really afford it :P
[04:23:43] <zeeshan> without relying on the internet!
[04:23:52] <Connor> No clue.
[04:23:56] <furrywolf> anyone that does fire alarms, intercoms, etc
[04:23:58] <ssi> zeeshan: home depot sells bell wire
[04:24:20] <furrywolf> commercial, not residential.
[04:24:20] <zeeshan> ssi its solid though
[04:24:21] <zeeshan> :(
[04:24:25] <Connor> but you want stranded.. most of that stuff is solid core.
[04:24:33] <furrywolf> yes, that it is.
[04:24:46] <ssi> zeeshan: if you really want it
[04:24:51] <ssi> I can show you where to get it
[04:24:52] <Connor> I have some 28 gauge 2 conductor shielded.. no twisted I got from HD..
[04:24:53] <ssi> the GOOD stuff
[04:24:54] <ssi> but it's expensive
[04:25:04] <furrywolf> anyone still sell twinax? :)
[04:25:11] <zeeshan> link ssi
[04:25:31] <ssi> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/edmotefzel.php?clickkey=3524
[04:25:33] <furrywolf> good computer power cords are 18/3 or 16/3 shielded
[04:25:43] <furrywolf> it's /3 not /2, but it's flexible and shielded...
[04:25:49] <zeeshan> per foot
[04:25:51] <zeeshan> holy cow
[04:25:59] <ssi> it's GOOD stuff
[04:26:10] <ssi> silver plated conductors, tefzel insulation, shield
[04:26:17] <furrywolf> that's actually a lot less obscene than I was expecting.
[04:26:38] <ssi> I get about 15% off of that price I think
[04:26:54] <furrywolf> why is 18/2 more expensive than 16/2? :)
[04:27:13] <ssi> heh that happens with this stuff sometimes
[04:27:21] <ssi> depends on demand I think
[04:27:28] <skunkworks> just buy a 1000ft roll of cat5 shielded/stranded.. last you forever...
[04:27:40] <ssi> like -3 size AN fittings are more expensive (considerably) than -4
[04:27:54] <ssi> skunkworks: I've never seen shielded cat5
[04:27:56] <zeeshan> haha yea
[04:27:59] <zeeshan> -3 is hard to find locally
[04:28:06] <ssi> spruce carries them
[04:28:08] <furrywolf> ssi: it exists
[04:28:08] <ssi> but they cost more
[04:28:12] <zeeshan> thats why i use on the turbo oil inlet
[04:28:12] <ssi> zeeshan: oh you'll like this
[04:28:18] <zeeshan> *what
[04:28:20] <furrywolf> yeah, -3 is rare. I used -6 on my last project.
[04:28:21] <skunkworks> ssi: pretty sure that is what I have at work - have to look.
[04:28:34] <ssi> so two weeks ago we pulled the pitts out to run it, and I put brake fluid in it to try to get them working
[04:28:38] <ssi> and it just leaked everywhere
[04:28:45] <ssi> so last night we pulled the side panels off to look at the brakes
[04:28:47] <ssi> and there's no lines
[04:29:05] <ssi> the reservoir has a hardline down to a bulkhead T, and there's no lines from the T to the master cyls on the pedals
[04:29:12] <ssi> so I poured fluid in
[04:29:15] <ssi> and it just poured out the bottom
[04:29:28] <zeeshan> im just gonna use homedepot wire
[04:29:29] <zeeshan> :/
[04:29:32] <zeeshan> solid wire sux though
[04:29:58] <zeeshan> rofl
[04:29:58] <ssi> so between BJ and I, we managed to scrounge together 2' of 303 hose in -3 size, four -3 fittings and two -3 pipe to AN elbows
[04:29:59] <zeeshan> ssi
[04:30:01] <ssi> and got the lines made
[04:30:04] <ssi> now I has brakez
[04:30:19] <furrywolf> ssi: this is how a recent vehicle purchase of mine came: http://fw.bushytails.net/whatpartdoesn%27tbelong.jpg
[04:30:36] <ssi> haha
[04:30:52] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/whatpartdoesn%27tbelong2.jpg
[04:31:15] <furrywolf> it had been being driven like that for years, apparantly.
[04:31:22] <LeelooMinai> So that's what those are for...
[04:31:46] <furrywolf> EVERY SINGLE REPAIR that I've done on this car has been someone else's repair.
[04:32:12] <ssi> seems legit
[04:32:36] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: what are you using
[04:32:40] <zeeshan> for shielded twisted pair wire?
[04:32:45] <furrywolf> the clamp was there because the piston had popped out of the caliper. the piston had popped out of the caliper because it had no brake pads. it had no brake pads because someone had put on the wrong brake rotors, a half inch thinner than the correct ones, allowing the pads to just fall out between the rotor and the backing plate.
[04:33:09] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: cat5 cable cut to pieces
[04:33:15] <zeeshan> shielded cat5?
[04:33:20] <LeelooMinai> Yes
[04:33:22] <zeeshan> stranded
[04:33:24] <zeeshan> or solid
[04:33:38] <LeelooMinai> this one is stranded
[04:33:43] <zeeshan> where did you buy!
[04:34:03] <zeeshan> please tell me --- that you bought it locally
[04:34:10] <LeelooMinai> I just boght some long legth, I think it was from monoprice
[04:34:15] <zeeshan> :(
[04:34:27] <zeeshan> it'll take forever to get it
[04:34:29] <LeelooMinai> You want STP basically
[04:34:47] <furrywolf> I miss monoprice... I used to shop there a lot, but then they stopped the $6 overnight shipping up here.
[04:35:06] <zeeshan> http://www.sayal.com/STORE/View_SPEC.asp?SKU=35834
[04:35:09] <zeeshan> this is stp cable
[04:35:11] <zeeshan> and its local
[04:35:11] <skunkworks> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAT-5-CAT-5E-BULK-ETHERNET-CABLE-500-FT-STRANDED-SHIELDED-GRAY-/111031109643?pt=US_Ethernet_Cables_RJ_45_8P8C_&hash=item19d9f8480b
[04:35:36] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Yes, as you can see there's this foil there + bare wire and they let you shield the rest.
[04:36:05] <zeeshan> i guess you leave the unused pairs inthere
[04:37:13] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: YOu can take it off too:)
[04:37:16] <furrywolf> no, you pull very very hard and they come out. :P
[04:37:37] <zeeshan> they do?:)
[04:38:02] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: is all STP supposed to be multistrand?
[04:38:04] <LeelooMinai> Yes - my trick is to clamp one end to the vise:)
[04:38:10] <zeeshan> as opposed to solid core
[04:38:12] <furrywolf> I've seen shielded cat5, but never worked with it. it has funky metal-shrouded rj45 plugs for the shield.
[04:39:13] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I don't think it's related... I thought that non-solid core gives you mostly flexibility and less possibility for break when you bend it.
[04:39:23] <zeeshan> youre right
[04:39:25] <zeeshan> thats why i want stranded
[04:39:32] <zeeshan> especially for dinky little 22awg
[04:39:36] <zeeshan> that stuff breaks easily :)
[04:40:02] <furrywolf> again, just to repeat myself, be VERY WARY of fake cat5. even home depot has been caught selling it.
[04:40:04] <zeeshan> i guess ill take some crimpers with me
[04:40:08] <zeeshan> and go chop it u
[04:40:11] <zeeshan> *up
[04:40:19] <furrywolf> it's copper clad aluiminum instead of solid copper, and breaks after being flexxed about three times.
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[04:40:31] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Here's my "improved" cnc box: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15967931302/ :)
[04:40:53] <zeeshan> looking great!
[04:41:05] <zeeshan> i like that energy meter
[04:41:06] <LeelooMinai> I have the on off switch now and this power meter in there.
[04:41:27] <LeelooMinai> And when closed: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15966607181/
[04:41:36] <LeelooMinai> On the top is fan controller.
[04:41:44] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/fakewire02.jpg give it the scrape test. if it looks like that, return it! (that picture being of "100% pure oxygen-free copper" wire on ebay)
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[04:42:05] <zeeshan> furry wolf
[04:42:09] <zeeshan> chopping it should showa copper core
[04:42:10] <zeeshan> :)
[04:42:13] <LeelooMinai> Is that steel? :p
[04:42:25] <furrywolf> leeloo: aluminum
[04:42:32] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: got a pic of the back?
[04:42:37] <zeeshan> i wanna see your fan setup
[04:42:49] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15650776467/in/photostream/
[04:42:54] <zeeshan> btw that looks GREAT
[04:42:55] <zeeshan> the wiring
[04:43:16] <LeelooMinai> I have hole on the back with mesh to stop hair and stuff getting in and the fan is on the side, also with a mesh.
[04:43:37] <zeeshan> you ended up finding the foam filter?
[04:43:46] <furrywolf> fact: ebay sellers have absolutely no qualms about blatantly misrepresenting their goods.
[04:44:09] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15543982890/
[04:44:20] <LeelooMinai> No, I stole piece of this material from mom.
[04:44:24] <LeelooMinai> It was for windows.
[04:44:28] <zeeshan> haha
[04:44:44] <LeelooMinai> It's like a pretty dense mesh - kind of like for silkscreening
[04:44:55] <zeeshan> looks good
[04:45:09] <LeelooMinai> Still no table and spindle though:)
[04:45:17] <zeeshan> dont start again
[04:45:17] <zeeshan> haha
[04:45:23] <zeeshan> please!
[04:45:27] <LeelooMinai> So in the meantime I design FPGA pcb.
[04:46:21] <zeeshan> im using this nonsense for filters:
[04:47:11] <furrywolf> scotchbrite floor scrubber pads make good chip filters
[04:47:28] <furrywolf> as well as working well for removing rust. :)
[04:47:28] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16051150846/
[04:47:33] <LeelooMinai> I thought of using some vaccuum cleaner hepa filter, but could not find anything cheap
[04:47:48] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: the reason i asked about the filter
[04:47:52] <zeeshan> the other day i bought an air purifier
[04:48:04] <zeeshan> and the replacement filter is 24"x7"~
[04:48:16] <zeeshan> 1/8" thick. foam/mesh
[04:48:19] <zeeshan> $8 replacement
[04:48:27] <skunkworks> pex plumbing
[04:49:02] <zeeshan> man i cant wait to get all the little dinky wiring done
[04:49:07] <zeeshan> so i can get this shit out of my bedroom
[04:49:16] <zeeshan> gf has been on my case :)
[04:49:31] <furrywolf> skunkworks: ?
[04:49:48] <skunkworks> LeelooMinai wire control
[04:50:07] <LeelooMinai> lol
[04:50:19] <LeelooMinai> I took it off eventually
[04:50:30] * furrywolf is currently single, so doesn't have that problem....
[04:50:42] <furrywolf> (plus, the last gf had a bedroom full of harley parts!)
[04:50:48] <zeeshan> haha
[04:50:49] <zeeshan> nice
[04:50:58] <zeeshan> my gf does arts and crafts stuff
[04:51:01] <zeeshan> so room is full of that
[04:51:08] <LeelooMinai> She was stealing them at night from the garage maybe
[04:51:10] <furrywolf> ah. garbage. :P
[04:51:18] <zeeshan> i broke her scissors the other day
[04:51:28] <zeeshan> being lazy and trying to cut a plastic package
[04:51:29] <zeeshan> haha
[04:51:47] <zeeshan> had to give her my stainless scissors from the garage :(
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[04:52:01] <ssi> buy her nicer scissors for xmas
[04:52:05] <ssi> or whatev
[04:52:13] <LeelooMinai> Like those $1000 ones from ebay
[04:52:32] <zeeshan> i bought her some already
[04:52:34] <ssi> I bought a really nice pair of scissors that cut leather when I started doing upholstery work
[04:52:38] <zeeshan> they should be here in jan
[04:52:44] <ssi> and within like three hours I had dropped them and put a big nick in the blade :(
[04:53:08] <zeeshan> http://mizutaniscissors.com/shop/sword/sword-dama-d-07/
[04:53:09] <zeeshan> those
[04:53:20] <zeeshan> (yea right)
[04:53:31] <ssi> I need to get a rigging knife, and I was looking at ceramic ones
[04:53:34] <ssi> I kinda want a ceramic knife realbad
[04:54:10] <furrywolf> if you drop the ceramic knife, you'll have an even bigger nick the blade. :P
[04:54:25] <furrywolf> lack of durability is a common complaint.
[04:54:27] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Pro-ASAMI-Hair-Cutting-Styling-Shears-Scissors-ART6146-/190707491730
[04:54:28] <zeeshan> i bought those
[04:54:42] <LeelooMinai> lol...
[04:54:45] <LeelooMinai> A bit overpriced
[04:54:47] <ssi> yeah
[04:54:54] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: thats the point of a gift
[04:54:56] <zeeshan> :P
[04:55:03] <ssi> but if I drop it on a sailboat I'll have a lost knife problem more than a nicked blade problem
[04:55:06] * furrywolf would prefer to be non-single, but mature, intelligent, sane, practical women who like wolfies and are good with a strapon are really hard to find...
[04:55:09] <zeeshan> theyre made in japan
[04:55:34] <furrywolf> $60 for a pair of scissors? ouch
[04:56:10] <LeelooMinai> I bought mom scissors from aliexpress once, but they were like $20
[04:57:01] <LeelooMinai> That's where I drew the line:)
[04:57:22] <zeeshan> well shit
[04:57:26] <zeeshan> she bought me a drill press
[04:57:30] <zeeshan> least i can do :)
[04:58:32] <furrywolf> lol
[04:59:38] <zeeshan> i really hope this stp cable is stranded
[04:59:39] <LeelooMinai> I guess she was robbed in this exchange
[04:59:47] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: ROFL
[05:03:41] <zeeshan> if you have 5v digital signal pairs
[05:03:51] <zeeshan> is it okay to run em in twisted form side by side
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[05:03:54] <zeeshan> in one shield?
[05:04:07] -!- john__ [john__!~john@] has joined #linuxcnc
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[05:04:49] <LeelooMinai> Not ideal, but may work - who knows
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[05:04:58] <LeelooMinai> Depends on many factors
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[05:05:12] <LeelooMinai> Length, frequency
[05:05:14] <zeeshan> STP has a shield for each pair?
[05:05:19] * furrywolf usually buys substantially smaller devices when a motorized gift is desired
[05:05:24] <LeelooMinai> No, outide all of them
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[05:06:27] <furrywolf> lol
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[05:06:33] <zeeshan> frequency is 25 kHz.
[05:06:39] <zeeshan> length is 2 feet
[05:06:44] <zeeshan> or 1.5 ft
[05:06:55] <zeeshan> i dunno if the cross talk is a big deal.
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[05:07:15] <ssi> whoa that was weird
[05:08:06] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Doubt it will cause problems
[05:08:23] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: i take it that the cross talk over a long span
[05:08:25] <zeeshan> is a bigger problem?
[05:08:41] <zeeshan> what i don't understand is, in a twisted pair
[05:08:46] <zeeshan> how can they cross-talk
[05:08:59] <zeeshan> won't the signals cancel out?
[05:09:11] <zeeshan> on top of that, each one of my pairs is a differential signal.
[05:09:12] <LeelooMinai> Why would they?
[05:09:17] <furrywolf> zee: digital is less succeptable to noise, and should be fine.
[05:09:21] <toastyde1th> 25khz is negligible for crosstalk
[05:09:45] <zeeshan> is there math theory behind this toastyde1th?
[05:09:46] <LeelooMinai> DIfferential pairs should be more imune
[05:09:53] <furrywolf> hrmm, either I'm lagging really badly or freenode is...
[05:10:01] <toastyde1th> zeeshan, crosstalk is capacative coupling between two wires
[05:10:05] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Not that you mentioned they are differential:)
[05:10:10] <toastyde1th> and is thus frequency-dependant
[05:10:48] <toastyde1th> it causes problems in digital signals because the high-frequency components of the square wave are responsible for the fast rise time, but also bleed over the most
[05:10:49] <LeelooMinai> The higher frequency, the more capacitive coupling behaves like a short
[05:10:52] <furrywolf> " CTCP PING reply from furrywolf: 0.606772 seconds" "CTCP PING reply from ssi: 132.971237 seconds" someone needs to poke freenode a bit. :)
[05:11:00] <zeeshan> is it a function of length too?
[05:11:03] <toastyde1th> yes
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[05:11:05] <ssi> it may just be me actually
[05:11:12] <ssi> I lagged out, and I'm on the world's worst internets :(
[05:11:24] <furrywolf> ssi: "*** CTCP PING reply from zeeshan: 108.206528 seconds" it's not just you. :)
[05:11:32] <zeeshan> so in this case
[05:11:33] <toastyde1th> the longer the wires run next to each other, the bigger the capacator they form
[05:11:38] <zeeshan> pcbs have massive capacitive coupling
[05:11:41] <zeeshan> for traces?
[05:11:42] <toastyde1th> and the faster the problem sets up
[05:11:52] <toastyde1th> what do you mean by "massive"
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[05:12:02] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: No... the traces there are short:)
[05:12:11] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: i guess i need to ask this
[05:12:19] <zeeshan> does twisting the wire reduce it's capacitance
[05:12:19] <zeeshan> lol
[05:12:20] <toastyde1th> the traces are so short that the farad value of the capacator is in like, the picofarads
[05:12:20] <ssi> pcbs have tiny amounts of capacitance
[05:12:26] <ssi> which becomes massive at very high freqs
[05:12:53] <toastyde1th> the twisting helps keep the coupling between the TX and ground for each pair
[05:13:04] <toastyde1th> it reduces the crosstalk between two different tx lines
[05:13:10] <ssi> and also for common mode noise rejection
[05:13:55] * furrywolf notes that ethernet is baseband and very, very high frequency
[05:13:59] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: say you have a square wave going to through one line of the twisted pair, and since it's a differential signal, you have the inverse of this going out of the other line
[05:14:06] <zeeshan> wouldn't the electric field cancel out for the twisted pair then
[05:14:36] <toastyde1th> you're confused on where crosstalk matters
[05:14:39] <ssi> no, but some of the magnetics do, and that's part of the point
[05:14:53] <toastyde1th> first, you have twice the potential difference and thus twice the coupling
[05:15:03] <toastyde1th> you gain no transmission distance
[05:15:33] <toastyde1th> however, we don't talk about "crosstalk" on the lines that actually carry a signal - we talk about crosstalk for two different lines carrying two _different_ signals
[05:15:43] <zeeshan> ah
[05:16:07] <toastyde1th> so in the crosstalk situation you'd care about, you'd have four/six wires - tx+/tx-/gnd, twice
[05:16:35] <toastyde1th> (four if you're doing something weird with the ground)
[05:18:12] <zeeshan> so in a typical cat 5 cable
[05:18:21] <zeeshan> the 'crosstalk' is between the 4 pairs.
[05:18:27] <toastyde1th> yes
[05:18:48] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[05:19:54] <zeeshan> is there a formula where you can specify length of wire, frequency of signal
[05:20:11] <zeeshan> and get farads :p
[05:20:32] <furrywolf> transmission line theory is a bit more complicated than that, unfortunately.
[05:20:38] <zeeshan> hehe
[05:20:40] <toastyde1th> the farad rating of the cap a pair of wires forms is just that
[05:20:55] <toastyde1th> you can calculate the farad value, but that's not really going to help
[05:21:11] <zeeshan> how do you know when interference becomes a problem then?
[05:21:14] <zeeshan> what parameter determines
[05:21:16] <zeeshan> *that
[05:21:20] <LeelooMinai> If things stop working
[05:21:25] <zeeshan> thats the redneck way.
[05:21:29] <zeeshan> theres always a theoretical way
[05:21:31] <zeeshan> :-)
[05:21:43] <LeelooMinai> Rednecks are great EE engineeeirs
[05:21:44] <zeeshan> you're not gonna send wiring in space
[05:21:49] <zeeshan> and try it out
[05:21:50] <LeelooMinai> Well, maybe not:)
[05:22:12] <toastyde1th> the ballpark is looking at the wavelength of the highest frequency you care about vs. the length of the run
[05:22:56] <toastyde1th> 25khz is a couple meters
[05:23:06] <toastyde1th> depending on what you're transmitting through
[05:23:11] <zeeshan> square wave
[05:23:18] <toastyde1th> so if you have a data cable running through a building, it matters
[05:23:27] <toastyde1th> if you have a pcb or one/two foot wire
[05:23:31] <toastyde1th> it's essentially DC
[05:25:00] <zeeshan> heres a situation
[05:25:08] <zeeshan> you got twisted pairs
[05:25:12] <zeeshan> *4 of them.
[05:25:24] <zeeshan> 3 of them are transmitting data at 25kHz
[05:25:34] <zeeshan> 2 of them are carrying a constant 5v and gnd.
[05:25:41] <zeeshan> 1 of them. not two fo them.
[05:25:57] <toastyde1th> k, i would not worry about crosstalk there, especially on a digital signal
[05:26:08] <zeeshan> what if that 1 pair is now 10000 v and gnd
[05:26:29] <toastyde1th> you're going to melt the wire because the insulation isn't rated that high on cat5
[05:26:32] <zeeshan> hahaha
[05:26:35] <zeeshan> lets say it was.
[05:26:47] <zeeshan> im wondering of the constant voltage causes an issues
[05:26:47] <toastyde1th> sure
[05:26:52] <zeeshan> *if
[05:27:02] <toastyde1th> coupling is frequency dependant and increases the higher the frequency is
[05:27:10] <toastyde1th> so what frequency is this 10kV line
[05:27:16] <zeeshan> its constant DC
[05:27:20] <toastyde1th> right
[05:27:24] <toastyde1th> so how much coupling is there
[05:27:34] <zeeshan> should be zero?
[05:27:37] <toastyde1th> yep
[05:27:39] <zeeshan> because the signal isnt changing with time
[05:27:43] <toastyde1th> correct
[05:27:55] <zeeshan> but in reality, nothing stays constant
[05:28:05] <zeeshan> what if it flucates 10000 to 10001 v
[05:28:11] <zeeshan> every sec
[05:28:16] <zeeshan> again i think that wouldnt matter
[05:28:17] <toastyde1th> 1 hz is essentially dc
[05:28:18] <zeeshan> cause its such a low freq
[05:28:24] <toastyde1th> and the voltage difference is 1v
[05:28:35] <zeeshan> okay now i can see why these audio engineers are crazy
[05:28:40] <furrywolf> lots of things are constant, like taxes, death, and stupidity.
[05:28:58] <furrywolf> bbl, sleep
[05:29:08] <zeeshan> noise is interesting.
[05:29:14] <toastyde1th> also keep in mind
[05:29:30] <toastyde1th> digital signals have very different problems than analog signals
[05:29:43] <zeeshan> so the type of waveform
[05:29:49] <zeeshan> is important too?
[05:29:54] <toastyde1th> crosstalk introduces jitter, and every physical transmission spec has a max jitter
[05:30:06] <toastyde1th> the faster the shit goes, the lower jitter is tolerable
[05:30:20] <toastyde1th> because the shit trying to recieve the signal has what's called set up time, and hold time
[05:30:23] <LeelooMinai> And you have jitterbugs
[05:30:33] <toastyde1th> set up is how long the signal has to be high BEFORE the measurement is made
[05:30:38] <toastyde1th> and hold is after the measurement is made
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[05:30:54] <zeeshan> hey that sounds very much like modbus
[05:30:55] <zeeshan> haha
[05:31:02] <toastyde1th> if the jitter is very high, it'll violate set up and hold times on the wire spec
[05:31:17] <zeeshan> so it'll drop packets
[05:31:26] <toastyde1th> yep
[05:31:32] <toastyde1th> because it'll read the wrong value
[05:32:13] <zeeshan> okay from what ive understood tonight from what you're saying
[05:32:22] <zeeshan> internal cross talk isn't a big deal for short runs.
[05:32:27] <toastyde1th> yup
[05:32:35] <toastyde1th> low frequency, short runs
[05:32:37] <zeeshan> i bet external noise is a bigger problem
[05:32:42] <zeeshan> from say a vfd
[05:32:44] <toastyde1th> once you get into mhz
[05:32:48] <toastyde1th> then a problem can arise
[05:32:55] <toastyde1th> even in short runs
[05:33:03] <zeeshan> so radio equipment
[05:33:06] <zeeshan> they gotta be careful
[05:33:25] <toastyde1th> radio and computer electronics
[05:33:39] <zeeshan> thats true
[05:33:41] <zeeshan> the cpu runs at ghz
[05:34:05] <zeeshan> for the fifth time,. so glad not an EE.
[05:34:14] <zeeshan> those guys must have fun designing cpus.
[05:34:29] <zeeshan> that'd drive me insane
[05:34:31] <toastyde1th> the runs are quite small in a cpu so it's less of a problem
[05:34:43] <zeeshan> well
[05:34:44] <toastyde1th> and cpu frequency has held constant for many years
[05:34:45] <zeeshan> the main bus lines
[05:34:50] <toastyde1th> the bus lines, yeah
[05:34:58] <zeeshan> i think for pci its 100mhz
[05:35:00] <zeeshan> i dont remember
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[05:35:38] <toastyde1th> very often bus lines run at quite slow speeds and increase bandwidth by adding more lanes
[05:35:53] <toastyde1th> or by using multi-voltage/phase shifting to transmit more than one byte per line
[05:36:31] <zeeshan> the glass scales have 4 wires
[05:36:37] <zeeshan> internally shielded. and externally shielded
[05:36:45] <zeeshan> transmitting a 5v sine wave
[05:36:54] <zeeshan> but the run of the wire is like 4 meters
[05:36:59] <toastyde1th> what freq
[05:37:01] <zeeshan> rate is still 45khz
[05:37:11] <toastyde1th> yeah i wouldn't worry still
[05:37:24] <zeeshan> heidenhain just overengineering i guess
[05:37:25] <toastyde1th> for that, noise in general is way more critical since it's an analog signal
[05:37:35] <zeeshan> ah
[05:37:44] <toastyde1th> and accuracy of the signal measurement translates directly to machine accuract
[05:37:46] <toastyde1th> *accuracy
[05:38:15] <zeeshan> yes
[05:38:26] <zeeshan> it all makes sense now.
[05:38:36] <zeeshan> why there is so much shielding for the analog side
[05:38:40] <zeeshan> but no mention of shielding onthe digital side.
[05:38:50] <zeeshan> the cables ive seen only have an external shield
[05:38:51] <zeeshan> on digital side.
[05:39:17] <zeeshan> food time
[05:39:19] <zeeshan> thanks for the info :D
[05:39:38] <toastyde1th> analog signals care a lot about amplitude
[05:39:41] <toastyde1th> digital, not so much
[05:39:54] <toastyde1th> any leakage or addition will fuck the signal
[05:40:04] <toastyde1th> digital only cares about new frequency components and loss
[05:40:06] <toastyde1th> bai!
[05:40:15] <zeeshan> well the way i think of it is like this
[05:40:20] <zeeshan> take a 1khz tone
[05:40:25] <zeeshan> you introduce a bit of noise to it
[05:40:34] <zeeshan> and you can audibly hear it.
[05:40:43] <toastyde1th> correct
[05:40:58] <toastyde1th> that's what i was saying about the amplitude sensitivity
[05:41:02] <toastyde1th> versus timing sensitivity
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[12:36:35] * jthornton ponders how to store the G code... a list or a string?
[12:38:56] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOO4t9dCUAAXUhl.jpg:large
[12:39:17] <ssi> jthornton: I feel like a list of words makes the most sense
[12:39:23] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:40:02] <jthornton> I'm leaning that way
[12:40:30] <jthornton> I can use print '\n'.join(mylist) to print each line
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[12:41:11] <ssi> ugh I went to a friends' house for dinner last night
[12:41:15] <ssi> and they're chain smokers
[12:41:27] <ssi> and I feel like crap now, like I have a sinus infection
[12:42:59] <jthornton> yuck, as an ex-smoker I can't stand to be around tobacco smoke
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[12:55:51] <jthornton> hmm I have to calculate a new I and K offset for each step up the arc
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[12:57:25] <jthornton> hmm, no K is -chord_length/2 so that is easy
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[13:04:40] <The_Ball> Anyone using NML in 2.8?
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[13:58:18] <jthornton> lathe roughing on an arc profile anyone http://imagebin.ca/v/1lWEIEJGaDqx
[13:58:31] * jthornton heads to the shower
[14:03:48] <skunkworks> jthornton, very cool!
[14:04:17] <skunkworks> So - how hard is it to do a cleanup cut? (always want more..)
[14:04:47] <archivist> is that to the arc leaving part of the arc to size and some over
[14:05:14] <skunkworks> like http://www.bpuk.org/linuxcnc/g71_finish_allowances.png
[14:06:26] <PetefromTn_> how was that one programmed skunkie?
[14:06:56] <skunkworks> PetefromTn_, someone had started writing a G71 gcode in linuxcnc.. (just not finished..)
[14:18:35] <jthornton> next item up for bid is an offset for a finish path
[14:19:04] <jthornton> pass
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[14:21:42] <jdh> I could work on my lathe or go to florida and dive.
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[14:24:35] <skunkworks> this was a bit of a pain with no lathe cam.. http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/TOP.JPG
[14:25:47] <PetefromTn_> I am looking forward to playing with the lathe portion of LinuxCNC. I read a little on that G70/G71 code apparently it is something like the HAAS lathe control setup. Is this currently supported?
[14:25:55] <skunkworks> I actually drew up the path in acad -> dxf2gcode -> hand edit (deleting all Z moves, changing Y to Z and J to K)
[14:26:13] <PetefromTn_> that does sound like a PIA..
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[14:27:39] <JT_Shop> PetefromTn_, we don't have G70/71...
[14:27:59] <PetefromTn_> Just got a 20%off coupon from Enco in an email...on orders of $150.00 or more
[14:28:26] <PetefromTn_> well that sucks...:(
[14:28:37] <JT_Shop> skunkworks, when I'm done you will be able to feed it a series of line/arc combinations and a finish pass depth
[14:29:11] <JT_Shop> material size and feed rate etc and it will spit out a G code program to do the part
[14:29:15] <skunkworks> JT_Shop, what is the input? Gcode or dxf?
[14:29:29] <JT_Shop> oh and tool numbers if you have them
[14:29:34] <JT_Shop> G code
[14:29:36] <skunkworks> neat
[14:30:00] <JT_Shop> you can generate the arc G code pretty fast with my arc generator
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[14:30:36] <JT_Shop> I worked on dxf for a while but got sidetracked
[14:31:04] <JT_Shop> I should build the arc generator into the Lathe G code Generator
[14:32:34] <archivist> skunkworks, I would probably hand turn that (graver)
[14:32:57] <skunkworks> I am not artistic enough to do that... :P
[14:34:54] <archivist> you use the friction under the graver as an arc point, less need for the artistic :)
[14:35:49] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321210152209 - fibreglass tow. Has anyone done filliment winding with linuxcnc?
[14:35:54] <SpeedEvil> What would generate the paths
[14:36:42] <archivist> someone did wind his guitar coils
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[14:37:23] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I'm wondering more structural things
[14:38:19] <archivist> as for wave winding just do the math and gearing in HAL
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[14:40:46] <skunkworks> andy re-wound his spark coil with linuxcnc
[14:41:17] <jthornton> this is the line one http://imagebin.ca/v/1lWRM7iIb1S8
[14:41:59] <skunkworks> SpeedEvil, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VLv9fmIqcQ
[14:43:42] <archivist> iirc it could have been mrsun who did the guitar coils
[14:44:41] <jthornton> I made a hal winder
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[14:45:39] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YptjAPK0QE
[14:46:17] <PetefromTn_> skunkworks that is a cool top man. Looks nice does it spin forever LOL?
[14:46:51] <skunkworks> not quite.. :)
[14:49:11] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUU-RlV5X3c this is a windup
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[15:30:17] <JT_Shop> yuck, a rainy day here
[15:35:26] <mrsun> archivist: huh ? :P
[15:35:31] <mrsun> ive never done any guitar coils =)
[15:35:49] <mrsun> ive programmed a transformer winder =)
[15:37:17] <syyl_ws> hey
[15:37:18] <syyl_ws> http://gtwr.de/web/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/pro_g1l_teilkopf_backen_39.jpg
[15:37:24] <syyl_ws> making a set of chuck jaws?
[15:37:25] <syyl_ws> sure!
[15:37:25] <syyl_ws> :D
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[15:44:58] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_3_5WldqnA Tool paths are fun!
[15:45:20] <SpeedEvil> syyl_ws: :)
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[15:55:19] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo... Just got a check dropped off for some work I just finished. Best news is the customer dropped off a prototype one piece clamp that they want me to bid a couple hundred of for them. Hopefully I can get that job here and be making a bunch of parts more for them.
[15:55:48] <PetefromTn_> I have machined a couple clamps like this tho and while they are simple in design machining them is kinda complicatede.
[15:56:19] <PetefromTn_> rather holding it from flexing for the second side is the problem
[15:56:36] <PetefromTn_> since it is basically a split ring
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[16:10:10] <CaptHindsight> lawyers and docs charge up front, why should a machinist have to wait to get paid?
[16:10:45] <PetefromTn_> LOL agreed..
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[16:10:59] <PetefromTn_> but honestly the last two jobs I did I got paid in full up front without asking for it.
[16:11:13] <CaptHindsight> the problem is that too many will wait to get paid
[16:11:43] <PetefromTn_> the job I got paid for today is about 2/3 completed. still have two more ops to do but they are relatively simple ones.
[16:12:09] <PetefromTn_> He did pickup about a hundred other parts I machined over the weekend for him when he was here.
[16:12:46] <PetefromTn_> I really NEED to get this lathe up and running he has a bunch of lathe parts he wants me to bid. Sigh....
[16:14:13] <PetefromTn_> Plus I can make cool high performance tops like skunkie LOL
[16:14:52] <skunkworks> heh
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[16:16:57] <skunkworks> I really just coppied this.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tppyBSKsq0U
[16:17:27] <skunkworks> better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKf-eqShujM
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[16:23:43] <PetefromTn_> Yeah man those are pretty cool tops...
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[16:27:26] <PetefromTn_> How did you handle the parting off on it? Did you machine it in the same orientation as the second video or the other way around?
[16:30:32] <skunkworks> same - actually had a piece of wood in the tail stock chuck with a hole to center the top end.
[16:30:52] <skunkworks> worked ok. Needs a little tweeking
[16:31:30] <skunkworks> not bad for the first try
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[16:34:53] <PetefromTn_> interesting
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[16:41:03] <PetefromTn_> BBL
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[18:17:11] <Tom_itx> JT_Shop, good stuff...
[18:19:57] <jthornton> Tom_itx, what stuff?
[18:20:21] <Tom_itx> your lathe arc thing
[18:20:29] <jthornton> ah thanks
[18:20:59] <Tom_itx> i still want to get my cam post figured out but been a bit busy
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[18:27:58] <jfigie> Hi wiki says irc logs are at: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/ this link dosen't work for me. Is there a new location?
[18:28:09] <skunkworks> zlog,
[18:28:09] <zlog> skunkworks: Log stored at http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2014-12-22.html
[18:28:52] <skunkworks> logger[psha],
[18:28:56] <skunkworks> logger[mah],
[18:28:56] <logger[mah]> skunkworks: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2014-12-22.html
[18:29:26] <archivist> bookmark
[18:29:26] <the_wench> yet another log is at http://emclog.archivist.info/
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[19:15:36] <PetefromTn_> WooHooooooo... Just got a visit from the Postal man with a little package marked MESANET!!
[19:16:01] <postaL> You're welcome
[19:16:02] <postaL> :)
[19:16:10] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[19:16:37] <zeeshan> rofl
[19:16:39] <PetefromTn_> pcw_home Hey man a huge THANK YOU for the 7i77 board...
[19:16:47] <zeeshan> it got fixed??!
[19:17:08] <PetefromTn_> either that or they sent it back without it being fixed but it is here now LOL
[19:17:15] <zeeshan> :)
[19:17:33] <zeeshan> the other day i was wiring the mesa
[19:17:38] <PetefromTn_> So now I have another complete 5i25/7i77 board
[19:17:39] <zeeshan> and i realized, damn those terminal blocks ar enice.
[19:17:42] <zeeshan> the removable kind
[19:17:51] <zeeshan> only mod i made was labeled em
[19:17:53] <PetefromTn_> hell yeah they are. makes wiring a lot easier
[19:18:15] <zeeshan> sweet pete
[19:18:18] <zeeshan> perfect for the lathe :)
[19:18:21] <zeeshan> now you have to get servos!
[19:18:28] <PetefromTn_> I lost my damn Vargus Shaviv deburring tool somewhere in the house/shop/ether
[19:18:46] <PetefromTn_> yeah exactly right I cannot wait to see this Lathe running.
[19:18:51] <PetefromTn_> Gonna be so kickass...
[19:19:17] <PetefromTn_> So anyways I ran down to fastenal to see if they had another handle since I have a bunch of the inserts here already
[19:19:40] <PetefromTn_> luckily they had a Set B kit with the new handle and a pair of close in inserts.
[19:20:31] <PetefromTn_> interestingly enough I found that the one I got from Fastenal has a steel shank that holds the tool with the ball bearing lock down while the old one I had was kind of a hard nylon with steel inside it.
[19:20:38] <PetefromTn_> I like this one much better
[19:21:28] <PetefromTn_> and I also grabbed another couple of thier HSS endmills that I have been using to good effect on aluminum parts that are not super critical.
[19:21:47] <PetefromTn_> I had to laugh because the guy there remembered me...
[19:21:59] <PetefromTn_> I asked him what was memorable about me LOL
[19:22:30] <PetefromTn_> he said well when you were here last time and wanted to buy that big countersink you kinda flipped out when I told you how much it costs...hehehee sounds like me
[19:22:44] <PetefromTn_> I had to chuckle about that one.
[19:22:58] <PetefromTn_> I guess I am a cheapass sometimes :D
[19:23:57] <archivist> losing stuff--
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[19:24:54] <archivist> I went and bought a countersink the other day, too lazy to search for the two awol
[19:24:59] <Loetmichel> Hmmm. some companys are strange... my wife got a "payment reminder" fee of 8 eur... to pay a "payment reminder" fee of 4 eur ... for an invoice that was paid originally well within time. so yves rocher has lost a customer... and as many others as my wife can convince ;-)
[19:25:22] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[19:25:31] <PetefromTn_> damn bean counters
[19:25:42] <archivist> invoice them for wasting your time
[19:25:45] <PetefromTn_> archivist I loose so much stuff in the shop all the time
[19:26:11] <archivist> you lose stuff under the loose stuff
[19:26:12] <PetefromTn_> usually the thing I am looking for is within arms reach but it might as well be in calcutta
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[19:26:54] <PetefromTn_> just yesterday I was running the mill making parts and looked down at my tool box ledge it was COVERED with strap clamps and bolts and screws all covering the touch off tool I was looking for.
[19:27:09] <PetefromTn_> I had to clean up and make everything nice and pretty again before I found what I was looking for.
[19:27:23] <PetefromTn_> I still can't find my vise grips pair out there somewhere.
[19:28:02] <PetefromTn_> I probably have two of every tool I have from giving up trying to find the first one I bought and just buying another one like you heh
[19:28:44] <PetefromTn_> https://www.facebook.com/ArchiEngineering/photos/pcb.348478825349359/348478782016030/?type=1&theater This looks like something that would garner attention no?
[19:29:42] <archivist> look at that git in the flash car
[19:30:22] <PetefromTn_> I would get a ticket just for sitting in that thing
[19:32:23] <Jymmm> they' would have to catch me first.
[19:33:30] <Jymmm> And whie toe old saying is you can't outrun a motorola, you sure in the hell can jam them =)
[19:33:42] <Jymmm> and a nokia, samsung, etc
[19:35:03] <PetefromTn_> It sure is LOUD but I think I would take mine in silver or black or white probably. Awesome car.
[19:36:11] <Jymmm> Doubtful, would have to adjust the valves every 3-4 weeks
[19:36:14] <PetefromTn_> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=915842898429348&set=vb.100000109397750&type=2&theater Pretty funny..
[19:36:47] <Jymmm> Just the suspension springs alone were $1200 each.
[19:37:32] <PetefromTn_> I am sure... I probably couldn't afford the horn button on that thing
[19:38:21] <Jymmm> Well, it was a LOT cheaper than all the lawyers =)
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[19:39:47] <Jymmm> But, you COULD get a cobra replica though
[19:40:23] <PetefromTn_> It's funny you mention that. I know a guy that has a really nice Cobra Replica and good lord that thing is insane fast.
[19:40:30] <Jymmm> yu could even afford TWO horn buttons then
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[19:41:12] <Jymmm> I dont like being in them
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[19:41:37] <Jymmm> The foot wells are FAR TOO SMALL
[19:42:27] <Jymmm> My head stick above the roll bars
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[19:42:33] <PetefromTn_> For me the toy car of choice would be something like this.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXWzYNHFrBw
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[19:43:48] <Jymmm> Very smooth ride at 140MPH surprisingly.
[19:44:05] <Jymmm> The Fiero that is.
[19:44:19] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know I had two of them now
[19:44:27] <PetefromTn_> Wanting another one hopefully soon
[19:44:39] <PetefromTn_> the best one I had was an 86 GT with the four speed.
[19:44:59] <PetefromTn_> should have never sold that car but had to unfortunately.
[19:45:26] <Jymmm> Eh, it was a friends he had non-descred custom under the hood
[19:46:05] <Jymmm> Had I known BEFORE hand what and why, I would have never gotten in it =)
[19:46:39] <PetefromTn_> Oh there are some really fast ones out there most have the buick 3800 and a big turbo ;)
[19:47:15] <Jymmm> looked/sounded 100% stock, that was the point.
[19:49:15] <PetefromTn_> that is actually not that hard to do because even stock they had kind of a growl to them
[19:51:03] <PetefromTn_> It's no supercar but it was a helluva fun car to drive I just love them.....it's a sickness LOL
[19:51:47] <CaptHindsight> which Cobra kits were these? I've seen them all over the place from using VW chassis to complete tube chassis and 460 Ford big blocks
[19:52:16] <PetefromTn_> my friends has a custom tubular chassis I don't know the name of the manufacturer
[19:54:52] <zeeshan> hi experts
[19:54:53] <PetefromTn_> it had a built 351 in it that was made to resemble the original motor somewhat.
[19:54:56] <zeeshan> what are you using to disconnect your cnc machines
[19:54:59] <zeeshan> i need something rated for 100 A
[19:55:07] <zeeshan> a knife blade type disconnect switch in its own enclosure?
[19:55:09] <zeeshan> ul98 rated?
[19:55:16] <zeeshan> or will ul508 work.
[19:55:48] <CaptHindsight> 100A disconnect switch from your local electrical distributor <$100
[19:56:13] <zeeshan> http://oakbluffclassifieds.com/Heavy-Industrial/Ge-general-electric-TH3363-disconnect-switch-100-amp-10-picture.jpg
[19:56:15] <zeeshan> that style?
[19:56:32] <zeeshan> i don't understand why it needs to be so huge
[19:56:36] <zeeshan> for 100A.. 240vac
[19:56:52] <PetefromTn_> Didn't your machine come with a big lever handle disconnect on the back of it?
[19:56:58] <zeeshan> pete it did
[19:57:00] <zeeshan> but only rated for 60A
[19:57:09] <zeeshan> i added 2 axis
[19:57:10] <CaptHindsight> is that one picture fused?
[19:57:14] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: yes.
[19:57:18] <zeeshan> even the unfused ones are like that
[19:57:19] <zeeshan> same size
[19:57:25] <zeeshan> they just dont have a provision for a fuse
[19:57:30] <zeeshan> i have upstream protection, so i dont need it to be fused
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[19:57:59] <zeeshan> the ul98 din rail mount switches
[19:58:01] <zeeshan> are like 200$
[19:58:02] <zeeshan> ..
[19:59:32] <CaptHindsight> prices have gone up in the past 20-30 years :)
[20:01:57] <zeeshan> maybe you can see my issue
[20:02:07] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16051150846/
[20:02:12] <zeeshan> power entry needs to come on the very left.
[20:02:17] <zeeshan> where the fuse holders are
[20:03:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/EfFQS7a.jpg
[20:03:04] <zeeshan> only pic i have of this mess
[20:03:17] <zeeshan> the enclosures will be mounted where the moose is
[20:03:24] <zeeshan> below it
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[20:03:44] <zeeshan> or maybe above the red tool boxes
[20:03:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-TG4323R-Spec-Setter-Safety-Switch-Disconnect-100-amp-3-pole-240-volt-/271716126961
[20:04:06] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: im gonna go to the local surplus
[20:04:18] <zeeshan> and see if they have one like that
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[20:04:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-HNF363R-100A-100-A-AMP-600V-NON-FUSIBLE-UNFUSED-SAFETY-DISCONNECT-SWITCH-/291312901067
[20:04:32] <CaptHindsight> or similar
[20:04:53] <zeeshan> be back in a bit
[20:05:29] <CaptHindsight> they will probably have knockouts but you should have any problem making the right sized holes where you need them
[20:05:37] <CaptHindsight> should not
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[23:55:26] <gabi_> hi
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[23:55:54] <gabi-cnc> hi
[23:56:58] <gabi-cnc> I have a stepper based CNC machine and i want to do a digitizing, what i need to do for that?
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