#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-12-12

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[03:09:52] <PetefromTn_andro> Evening linuxcnc
[03:10:18] <Tom_itx> late evening
[03:10:31] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah
[03:11:14] <PetefromTn_andro> What goin on anything interesting
[03:13:56] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_andro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXjQkjosFs&feature=youtu.be
[03:14:09] <XXCoder> ksp with realistic mod
[03:14:43] <PetefromTn_andro> Did a bunch of running around today. Tomorrow I am going to take a crack at converting the cnc to be imperial native. Want to get the cutter compensation working finally.
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[03:17:38] <PetefromTn_andro> Interesting what is that some kinda spaceflight SIM?
[03:17:56] <XXCoder> yeah build rockets and fly em
[03:18:09] <PetefromTn_andro> Don't have time to watch the whole vid
[03:18:24] <XXCoder> realistic mod seem to make it earth and moon and apparently use around realistic tech back then
[03:18:41] <PetefromTn_andro> Fun. Not my thing but I can see people enjoying it.
[03:19:33] <[cube]> https://vine.co/v/O6O6TMDrzBt
[03:20:08] <XXCoder> interesting
[03:20:13] <PetefromTn_andro> Still have this fracking dizziness a bit even after almost five days now. Sucks big time.
[03:20:45] <jdh> that sucks. did you see an ENT?
[03:20:58] <XXCoder> what happened?
[03:21:49] <PetefromTn_andro> I had some kinda vertigo episode coupled with a flu like issues
[03:22:22] <PetefromTn_andro> No not yet other than going to my pcp and the ER that day...
[03:22:42] <XXCoder> dizzyness sucks
[03:22:45] <XXCoder> I get it often
[03:22:57] <XXCoder> in least its not constant for 9 months like I had after car accient
[03:23:10] <PetefromTn_andro> It had gotten considerably better but the last little bit won't dissipate
[03:24:07] <PetefromTn_andro> Never had anything like this before in my entire life and it is really taxing on your energy levels
[03:25:06] <PetefromTn_andro> Worst part is that it kinda blurs my vision slightly when I move my head a little bit too fast.
[03:25:48] <PetefromTn_andro> As long as I am sitting still and not moving around to much I feel perfectly normal
[03:26:49] <PetefromTn_andro> When I try to run or drive over bumps it kinda hits me a bit. Nothing like that first few days but enough to really get annoying
[03:27:22] <PetefromTn_andro> Hopefully it will be gone with a few more days healing
[03:28:07] <PetefromTn_andro> I managed to get some customers parts machined yesterday and delivered them this morning. That felt good.
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[03:28:39] <Jymm> Has anyone seen/used any "can apply when wet" duct tape?
[03:29:05] <PetefromTn_andro> Got some orders for some of those custom battery trays I designed and prototype built awhile back
[03:29:40] <PetefromTn_andro> Not really.
[03:30:34] <Tom_itx> http://www.amazon.com/3M-2245-Heavy-Duty-All-Weather/dp/B0013AX62K
[03:30:47] <skunkworks> PetefromTn_andro: working in odd positions lately?
[03:31:18] <PetefromTn_andro> This double sided tape I used for the Alice in Chains edge lit acrylic sign is some serious sticky Shit tho LOL
[03:31:51] <PetefromTn_andro> No not really why do you ask?
[03:31:52] <jdh> we have some foamy 3m double sided tape at work that is great
[03:32:10] <Tom_itx> http://machinedesign.com/archive/power-tape-sticks-wet-surfaces
[03:32:16] <Tom_itx> Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[03:32:40] <skunkworks> vertigo can give you flu like symptomss
[03:33:26] <PetefromTn_andro> Oh yeah man... Vomiting, from either end LOL headache, weakness....you name it I had it..
[03:34:02] <PetefromTn_andro> Sucks just does not adequately describe the phenomenon
[03:34:41] <PetefromTn_andro> Would not wish it on my worst enemy seriously....
[03:35:24] <PetefromTn_andro> After more than five days I am still messed up by it.
[03:36:06] <PetefromTn_andro> Have you ever experienced it skunkie
[03:36:11] <Tom_itx> Jymm, also possibly: http://www.gorillaglue.com/gorilla-tape
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[03:36:54] <PetefromTn_andro> Jymm what is the application for the wet duct tape?
[03:37:01] <Tom_itx> gonna patch your canoe mid stream?
[03:40:47] <skunkworks> not to that extent.. vertigo doesn't bother me too bad. I just get the spinnies - like riding a roller-coaster - no nausea. Mom and sister get it really bad.
[03:42:55] <PetefromTn_andro> I never had it before ever and the doctor at the er said I was pretty dehydrated so that was a contributing factor along with the possibility of a bug/flu
[03:44:06] <PetefromTn_andro> Just got all of it together gave me the kung fu chop and knocked the hell out of me unfortunately.
[03:45:11] <PetefromTn_andro> I swear when it first started strongly I would have believed it if someone told me I was having a stroke or something....
[03:45:31] <unfy> after looking at plenty of pictures, plans, etc online ... i've decided on a ... custom / hybrid thing for a 16" x 16" cnc router ._.
[03:45:56] <PetefromTn_andro> What are you making it out of?
[03:46:35] <unfy> aluminum square tubing, aluminum L brackets, acrylic (or some other plastic).
[03:47:00] <jdh> looking for cheap, fast, or good?
[03:47:14] <PetefromTn_andro> Aluminum extrusion or actual tubing?
[03:47:22] <unfy> i'm going small for a first build, and i currently have limited motor power ._.
[03:47:25] <unfy> actual tubing :P
[03:47:52] <unfy> jdh: primarily cheap.
[03:48:22] <jdh> my 6040 was surprisingly good out of the box. not so cheap though
[03:48:24] <PetefromTn_andro> I am always of the go bigger camp when it comes to building machines even if it just means more travels.
[03:49:09] <unfy> am also wanting the moving gantry rather than moving bed (ie: to get experience so if decide to then go to 4'x8' ...)
[03:49:36] <unfy> pete: this machine will sit on a table in my apartment. well in a sound proofing box in my apartment. smaller is beneficial.
[03:50:22] <PetefromTn_andro> Connor built a neat little fully enclosed router from mdf that sits in his office.
[03:50:39] <unfy> if i didn't have limited motor power, i'd go full mdf.
[03:51:02] <PetefromTn_andro> Why do you have limited motor power
[03:51:26] <unfy> because i bought some 76oz/in nema17's on the cheap and would like to see if they can be made to work :P
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[03:51:45] <jdh> they should cost like $5?
[03:52:03] <jdh> put them in box in teh closet
[03:52:03] <unfy> these were ~$9 a piece or so.
[03:52:26] <PetefromTn_andro> Dunno what to tell you man never used anything that small
[03:52:54] <unfy> indeed.
[03:53:32] <unfy> i'll get this thing build and will then be able to tell how things are going :P
[03:54:19] <PetefromTn_andro> Honestly I can't understand going thru the trouble and time expense of building a cnc anything that is not really useful and capable when it is finished.
[03:55:28] <unfy> well, if the motors are strong enough to work - yay. if not - i'll just pick up something stronger. and a working area of 8"x8" to 14"x14" or so does indeed have an immediate use for me (pcb drilling)
[03:56:08] <PetefromTn_andro> At the end of the day the only difference between a really nice rigid little machine and a floppy flimsy weak piece of useless junk is a bit more care and time and just a bit more cost really.
[03:57:58] <PetefromTn_andro> But that fact sure doesn't stop tons of folks from building cnc routers from duct tape bailing wire and shoelaces hehe
[03:58:26] <unfy> i won't have any shoe laces :P
[03:58:39] <PetefromTn_andro> Well save up LOL
[03:59:24] <unfy> i'm a fan of over engineered stuff, but i think this will do just fine.
[03:59:27] <PetefromTn_andro> Are you going to tig welding that tube together or just bolts everything together or what?
[03:59:58] <unfy> bolts + brazing was the plan.
[04:00:35] <Rab> unfy, if you use belt drive to couple the steppers and a decent reduction ratio, you'll get more torque (at the expense of speed).
[04:00:49] <Rab> Also better resolution.
[04:01:16] <PetefromTn_andro> Interesting. Done a bit of brazing... Fastened the cable guides on my homebuilt recumbent bike with it..
[04:02:32] <Rab> I'm a fan of moving bed rather than moving gantry, less torque is required for the X axis and a fixed gantry is more rigid. But I understand it takes more space.
[04:03:05] <unfy> rab: if the nema17's can't do it, i'll just plop down the cash for bigger motors. i've never been a fan of belt stuff. dunno why ._.
[04:03:19] <unfy> as far as a gear system, i've debated it :)
[04:03:22] <PetefromTn_andro> I like that little microcarve machine with the tensioner frame and moving bed.
[04:04:08] <PetefromTn_andro> Nothing wrong with a timing belt drive setup.
[04:04:24] <unfy> personal hatred. i don't know why, just have it.
[04:04:40] <unfy> have hated them for ~20 years.
[04:06:19] <skunkworks> you like gear trains over belts?
[04:06:29] <PetefromTn_andro> They are well suited to a small low power router table. With quality components you should be able to get good accuracy.
[04:06:37] <unfy> i dislike long belts.
[04:07:15] <unfy> i know belt/chain systems are more efficient than just meshing gears, but i just hate long belt systems
[04:07:16] <PetefromTn_andro> They are also much quieter than other alternatives
[04:07:30] <Rab> unfy, I'm talking about pulley drive, not long belt.
[04:07:59] <Jymm> Tom_itx: TYVM
[04:08:38] <unfy> rab: possibly then
[04:09:21] <PetefromTn_andro> What kind of pulley drive system do you mean
[04:10:13] <unfy> i think he's just referring to a two gear system to increase torque between motor and lead screw.
[04:10:24] <Rab> Yeah, like so: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/parts02.jpg
[04:10:43] <Jymm> Tom_itx: Sadly, it's a europe thing
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[04:11:02] <PetefromTn_andro> Oh just a belt drive setup for the motor.
[04:11:03] <Rab> (The belt in that pic is the wrong pitch, don't look too closely)
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[04:13:30] <PetefromTn_andro> Well goodnight folks.
[04:13:45] <unfy> i think it'll be build this. see what i think and plan on next one or modifications to existing. the drive reduction thing was always in back of head as a possibility... but not something i was planning on.
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[04:14:17] <unfy> i have /no/ problems with building 3 of these. a starting 'wtf', a 'this is better', and then maybe a 'this is what i really want' heh.
[04:15:03] <unfy> if i "just wanted a machine" - i'd spend the $700-$2000 on one. but i'm wanting to playyyyyyyy heh
[04:15:18] <unfy> well, 700-4000 i suppose
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[04:16:58] <Rab> $700-1000000+
[04:17:52] <unfy> lol. i'm no business, >$5k is beyond me
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[04:29:06] <zeeshan|2> speaking of gantry mills
[04:29:11] <zeeshan|2> i found my favourite
[04:29:19] <unfy> oh ?
[04:30:10] <zeeshan|2> http://www.datron.com/cnc-machines/m8.php
[04:30:22] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCeywiKCYhA
[04:30:23] <zeeshan|2> in action
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[04:31:54] <unfy> look at the chips fly
[04:32:04] <zeeshan|2> its amazing how rigid that gantry is.
[04:32:21] <zeeshan|2> almost a mirror finish :)
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[04:32:46] <unfy> that thing just don't care... it's butter!
[04:33:01] <zeeshan|2> i love those mastercam high speed tool paths
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[04:53:39] <renesis> haha, i like the little tool cover
[04:53:49] <renesis> trap door
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[05:24:29] <Connor> unfy: http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc8.jpg http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc9.jpg
[05:26:26] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: in what way does this save the world and I didn't see any sort of filament extruder attachment :p
[05:34:28] <unfy> connor: sexy
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[05:46:33] <unfy> going thrhough it, looks like they've moved on to bigger and bigger stuff :P
[05:47:42] <The_Ball> not a complete failure: https://wigen.net/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=9ae3b1348e5da943fd497541b23f1734
[05:48:28] <unfy> :D
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[07:10:08] <unfy> coworker brought in the system i'm buying for $20 as a linuxcnc box. athlon xp2800+ - getting 7532/9071 max jitter :D
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[07:53:39] <Deejay> moin
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[07:54:44] <unfy> o/
[07:55:00] <Deejay> :)
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[07:58:08] <unfy> ordered some cheap 5mm->8mm shaft couplers
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[13:17:41] <zoni1983> hi i had a problem yesterday
[13:17:58] <zoni1983> i have a machine with dc motors
[13:18:26] <zoni1983> i installed 5i20 with 7i33
[13:19:23] <zoni1983> it has been working fine with linuxcnc 2.5.4 for last 2 weeks other than some times keyboard stop responding
[13:20:33] <zoni1983> yesterday while machining the z axis wrose about 10 mm and then plunger into the material at hight speed
[13:21:54] <zoni1983> the keyboard did not worked neither e-stop connected to 7i37 nor the feed override worked we have to turn off machine power
[13:22:15] <zoni1983> how can this happen
[13:22:58] <CaptHindsight> sounds like you didn't wire the e-stop properly, e-stop should work even if you throw the PC out the window during operation
[13:24:05] <zoni1983> why did machine plunged into material when it was not in program
[13:24:45] <zoni1983> any ideas
[13:24:50] <XXCoder> was it where it was supposed to go up?
[13:24:53] <CaptHindsight> if it's a usb keyboard maybe that port or usb hub stopped working, did the keyboard still have power when the system wasn't responding?
[13:25:13] <zoni1983> ok
[13:25:51] <zoni1983> no it was not supppsed to go up
[13:26:26] <XXCoder> ok. I was wondering if it was program error
[13:26:33] <CaptHindsight> how long has this system been working properly? Is this new installation?
[13:26:38] <CaptHindsight> a new
[13:27:02] <zoni1983> no i have checked program it was fine
[13:27:42] <XXCoder> im at end of ideas sorry. hope you solve it!
[13:27:44] <zoni1983> i restarted the machine and run the same program again nothing happened
[13:27:53] <XXCoder> keyboard cutouts is bit odd though
[13:28:09] <XXCoder> makes me wonder if it dont have enough power or something
[13:28:12] <CaptHindsight> bad mainboard maybe
[13:28:22] <XXCoder> capt or insuffecent powerbox
[13:28:52] <CaptHindsight> what Linuxcnc install is this? we still don't knw if the system has ever worked right or if it just acted up all of a sudden
[13:29:04] <zoni1983> has anybody even seen some thing like this
[13:29:43] <zoni1983> it is 2.5.4
[13:30:44] <CaptHindsight> can't help if you don't answer the questions
[13:30:51] <zoni1983> after installation for two weeks it wroked fine
[13:31:03] <CaptHindsight> e-stop is also wired wrong, not sure what else
[13:32:13] <zoni1983> e-stop might be but accident shouldnt have happened in the first place
[13:32:26] <zoni1983> CaptHindsight: what is ur question
[13:33:15] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: he said it worked for 2 weeks twice
[13:33:48] <renesis> i dont even have an estop
[13:34:08] <renesis> i have a spindle power switch and the escape on my keyboard
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[13:35:06] <zoni1983> what if computer stops responding or get held can this happen
[13:35:40] <renesis> ive had mad slow response to jogs
[13:36:02] <zoni1983> CaptHindsight: i have worked on machine for 15 days continuously with any accident
[13:36:07] <renesis> stopping and starting jogs, but its pretty consistent, dont think its ever ignored me completely
[13:36:27] <renesis> zoni1983: had you run this code before?
[13:36:44] <CaptHindsight> "neither e-stop connected to 7i37 nor the feed override worked"
[13:37:00] <zoni1983> no but after accident i run it again worked fine
[13:37:20] <renesis> so prob not code
[13:38:05] <renesis> check jitter for a day
[13:38:34] <renesis> if it spikes stupid high maybe your board or hardware setup has some intermittent problem
[13:38:38] <zoni1983> CaptHindsight: i ment that both e-stop and feed override connnected to 7i37 did not worked ( not from keyboard)
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[13:38:59] <renesis> osounds like pc got stuck
[13:39:04] <Valen> keyboard can lose focus
[13:39:17] <Valen> your keystrokes wont go to emc if the mouse isn't over the emc window
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[13:39:19] <renesis> heh, that sucks
[13:39:29] <renesis> is it sloppy focus by default?
[13:39:30] <Valen> random plunge could be bad encoder signals
[13:39:41] <Valen> i think focus follows mouse by default
[13:39:45] <renesis> gnome is click by default i think
[13:39:46] <zoni1983> renesis: if pc gets stuck can it cause accident
[13:39:59] <renesis> zoni1983: yes possibly
[13:40:06] <Valen> zoni1983: that shouldn't happen with mesa hardware
[13:40:16] <CaptHindsight> have to decipher the info first due to the language barrier, then try to make sense of the info
[13:40:32] <Valen> if it doesn't get poked every so often the mesa cards have an internal watchdog timer that will shut them down if its not poked often enough
[13:40:37] <CaptHindsight> just a suggestion
[13:40:47] <renesis> how often is the watchdog?
[13:40:54] <renesis> ms? seconds?
[13:41:03] <Valen> don't know the default I presume in the 10's of msec range
[13:41:11] <Valen> if you have a serious machine you should have an external estop switch (or two) that signals EMC directly
[13:41:20] <Valen> we have one that kills power to the servo drives
[13:41:27] <zoni1983> Valen: do we have to activate it
[13:41:30] <renesis> if its a safety hazard would be good practice
[13:41:39] <Valen> I believe its there by default
[13:41:40] <renesis> my mill is tiny
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[13:41:59] <Valen> running away is typically the result of a servo not getting feedback
[13:42:42] <Valen> IE the mill is hovering and it gets a bit of error, so it tries to correct, nothing happens, so the I winds up pushing harder and harder
[13:42:50] <Valen> then it goes bang and something breaks
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[13:42:59] <Valen> we also have fuses in our motor lines
[13:45:07] <renesis> for stalls?
[13:45:09] <Valen> it wont trip out on ferror because it thinks the mill is .1mm away from setpoint
[13:45:13] <zoni1983> Valen: if in my machine in normal condition the axis moves more than 0.5mm i get a joint followong error and power to servo is disconnected
[13:45:17] <Valen> and oscilation
[13:45:35] <Valen> zoni1983: and if the encoder is disconnected what happens?
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[13:46:26] <zoni1983> Valen: if the encoder is disconnected again i get joint following error
[13:46:34] <renesis> if lcnc gets a stream of pulses does it ever lock up ui?
[13:46:37] <Valen> how do you get a following error?
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[13:46:48] <Valen> if the axis is not being commanded to move
[13:46:50] <renesis> like, dealing with the servos, ignores the keyboard
[13:47:10] <renesis> maybe its em interference or bad connection
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[13:47:40] <zoni1983> if axis is commanded and encoder is not connected then i get error
[13:48:11] <Valen> zoni1983: again axis is not commanded
[13:48:22] <Valen> you have told it to sit at 23.22mm
[13:48:25] <renesis> yeah im saying maybe it got some sort of rf interference that lcnc thought was encoder pulses
[13:48:27] <Valen> it drives there and sits there
[13:49:01] <Valen> but it never quite sits at 23.22 it sits at 23.23 or 23.21
[13:49:14] <Valen> its sitting at 23.23 then the encoder gets disconnected
[13:49:29] <Valen> the integral term in your PID loop builds up
[13:49:42] <Valen> so the motor is commanded to move with ever increasing power
[13:49:55] <Valen> then it goes bang
[13:50:23] <renesis> he says normally it just gives up after half mm tho
[13:50:43] <renesis> i think it was solir flares
[13:50:47] <renesis> solar
[13:50:54] <renesis> whatever im going to sleep
[13:51:12] <Valen> renesis: without the feedback it doesn't know it has moved at all
[13:51:17] <Valen> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_watchdog
[13:51:25] <zoni1983> Valen: in my case machine is working fine and then it wrose 15mm smmothly and then plungef down 15 mm
[13:51:29] <Valen> its 1 second by default on the watchdog
[13:51:36] <renesis> oh ha
[13:51:40] <renesis> yeah thats pretty long
[13:51:58] <Valen> did you check your G-code zoni1983?
[13:52:10] <zoni1983> yes
[13:52:13] <renesis> did you check modal gcodes?
[13:52:29] <renesis> maybe you had your default planes setup wrong
[13:52:33] <zoni1983> i ran it again it worked fine next time
[13:52:44] <renesis> and you were in normal XYZ orientation
[13:52:48] <Valen> I'd be investigating your encoder wiring
[13:52:51] <renesis> did you restart lcnc?
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[13:53:12] <renesis> so you machine was going to go Y but it did Z, or something
[13:53:29] <Valen> the worst we have had happen is very occasionally it'll get mixed up and wont reset the cordinates right
[13:53:44] <renesis> but you restarted and it reset the model command so next time it when Y when the code said Y
[13:53:58] <Valen> the only uncommanded movements we have had were the result of our encoders dying
[13:54:40] <Valen> anyway past my bed time
[13:54:56] <Valen> oh we have 5i23 and 7i somethingorother as well ;->
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[14:00:14] <zoni1983> sorry was disconnected
[14:02:20] <zoni1983> one more problem i have is that if i a given point to point data for circle or bend machine axis does not move smothly on even 1 meter
[14:04:04] <zoni1983> does traj-period effect it
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[14:07:23] <zoni1983> does traj-period effect the smoth motion of axis
[14:07:45] <ekacnet> pcw_home: so by default I have current-minlim 0.5A current-maxlim 0.5A and current-scalemax 0.5
[14:12:08] <zoni1983> zoni1983: does traj-period effect the smoth motion of axis
[14:18:47] <zoni1983> zoni1983: does traj-period effect the smoth motion of axis
[14:25:11] <Swapper> i had a freak thing happen on my mill, where running remote desktop to a other computer and it disconnected the session and that made a box popup in the middle of me pushing the -z button, problem where that it did not stop!
[14:25:19] <Swapper> so the focus handling is not all that OK
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[14:58:53] <pcw_home> watchdog default is 10 ms
[15:00:05] <pcw_home> (its set in nS in the hal file)
[15:04:34] <Jymm> pcw_home: Whatcha think? $99 at Frys this week... http://www.amazon.com/KORAD-KA3005D-Precision-Adjustable-Regulated/dp/B0084JFWNY
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[15:07:53] <pcw_home> We have some similar ones, they are OK but not great (they are linear supplies with relay selection of transformer secondary taps when you change the output voltage)
[15:08:20] <pcw_home> we have the 60V 5A and 30V 10A models
[15:08:34] <ekacnet> pcw_home: so concerning the current why mincur is actually negative by default ? is it because it's alternative
[15:08:44] <Jymm> I read that on a different model too, but no mention of relays in this one.
[15:09:08] <pcw_home> current can be either polarity
[15:09:09] <Jymm> Relays --> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EUH18DC/ref=pd_luc_rh_sbs_02_02_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[15:09:43] <pcw_home> maybe the low power ones dont have the relays
[15:10:18] <pcw_home> Hmm does it have a fan? (the ones we have do and its a nuisance)
[15:10:31] <Jymm> Actually the Frys one is 0-30V@5A, the relay one is 0-18V@3A
[15:11:04] <Jymm> It does have a fan, thermally controlled I believe
[15:11:07] <ekacnet> pcw_home: so mincur should be just the opposite sign of maxcur right ?
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[15:11:42] <ekacnet> there is no interest to have min cur set to 1A and maxcur to 5A for instance ?
[15:11:51] <pcw_home> Yes and the default will be 7.5A (unless you chenge the EEPROM setting)
[15:12:37] <ekacnet> well I haven't changed th eeprom but the value returned by the HAL by default are 0.5A
[15:12:41] <pcw_home> For any standard use they should be symmetrical
[15:12:50] <pcw_home> not possible
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[15:13:08] <ekacnet> ok I'll recheck then
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[15:14:01] <pcw_home> Well its possible but very unlikely
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[15:15:28] <ekacnet> I need also some guidance on brakeonv brakeoffv
[15:15:44] <pcw_home> no need to touch it
[15:16:03] <ekacnet> I have a motor but I don't know much about it
[15:16:43] <pcw_home> well you migh need to lower them is you are not using a ~350 VDC power supply
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[15:18:05] <pcw_home> it is possible to have some good hal protection from broken encoder runaways especially with velocity mode drives
[15:18:29] <ekacnet> how ?
[15:18:53] <ekacnet> the idea is to avoid to fry the motor or having it not undercontrol
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[15:20:54] <pcw_home> you set the PID maxoutput pin to ~2x commanded velocity +say 250 RPM and then monitor the PID saturated pin (and fault if PID is saturated)
[15:20:56] <pcw_home> The idea is that runaways can hurt someone
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[15:44:25] <PetefromTn_> yup hurt and scare the crap out of you ask me how I know LOL
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[16:09:47] * Cylly just solved his second thoughte when looking at the new psu case we made... usually we just crack the plastic psu and put the pc with some PE foam around into the aluminium enclosure. ... but this model was a BIT wide... and had 230V traces on the corner of the pcb.. so i desinged the pVC "holder" to isolate it.. -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15433 MUCH better ;-)
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[16:11:55] <Cylly> ... it easily doubles the price of the psu for milling tiome, but who cares in military stuff anyway ;-)
[16:14:39] Cylly is now known as Loetmichel
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[16:34:29] <tjtr33> what was the name of the linuxcnc user in Taipei?
[16:34:47] <tjtr33> he had a business
[16:35:03] <tjtr33> yishin something?
[16:36:02] <tjtr33> got it :)
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[16:47:05] <ReadError> Jymm
[16:47:08] <ReadError> I have 2 of those
[16:47:13] <ReadError> served me great so far
[16:47:26] <ReadError> use 1 on my hot wire, the other for electronic stuff
[16:47:29] <Jymm> ReadError: how long have you had them?
[16:47:38] <ReadError> 1st probably a year maybe
[16:47:47] <ReadError> used almost daily
[16:47:54] <Jymm> cool
[16:48:25] <ReadError> I got a rigol 832 recently on black friday
[16:48:39] <ReadError> but still use the korad for some stuff
[16:50:13] <ReadError> the different pre programmed things are nice on the korad
[16:50:19] <ReadError> vs some of the other ones in that range
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[17:05:26] <zeeshan|2> note to all canadians
[17:05:30] <zeeshan|2> automationdirect is the BEST
[17:05:40] <zeeshan|2> orders over 49 dollars get free shipping to canada using 2 day fedex
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[17:05:49] <zeeshan|2> on top of that, they do your brokerage for you, so you dont get raped on the border
[17:05:59] <zeeshan|2> ive used them 3 times now, and they're awesome!
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[17:15:32] <PetefromTn_> They look like a big operation. Nice to hear you got good service from them.
[17:16:36] <zeeshan|2> i think its the closest to me feeling like im in the USA
[17:16:47] <zeeshan|2> like you guys can get your mcmaster carr orders in 1 or 2 days @ most locations
[17:16:47] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[17:16:49] <zeeshan|2> we never get that :/
[17:17:18] <PetefromTn_> yeah Mcmaster Carr is amazing. I USUALLY get my parts overnight unless it is the weekend.
[17:17:43] <roycroft> keep in mind that usps 2 day priority mail is taking 4 days right now, and both fedex and ups shipments are commonly slipping a day
[17:17:43] <zeeshan|2> haha thats awesome!
[17:17:47] <PetefromTn_> just purchased a .050 radius corner rounding double sided endmill from them for a job I just completed.
[17:17:56] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: hasn't been like that for me
[17:17:58] <roycroft> for the next two weeks that will continue to be the case
[17:17:59] <zeeshan|2> i got it in 2 days
[17:17:59] <PetefromTn_> ordered it Friday but got it Monday
[17:18:15] <PetefromTn_> most of the other times I order I get it the next day.
[17:18:15] <roycroft> i've noticed the slowdown
[17:18:28] <roycroft> and the websites for the various shippers are even indicating that when i track things
[17:18:40] <PetefromTn_> it is a bit more expensive tho to purchase from them sometimes
[17:18:55] <roycroft> not to mention the 40+ minute queue at the post office when i have to pick something up
[17:19:22] <PetefromTn_> I can honestly say that I have never been dissatisfied with an order from them and I have ordered tons of stuff over the years from them.
[17:19:36] <roycroft> mcmaster are a great vendor
[17:19:59] <PetefromTn_> for electronics parts I have enjoyed Galco's service...
[17:20:42] <roycroft> i usually use mouser or digi-key for electronics
[17:20:53] <PetefromTn_> I need to order a little 5c collet indexer right now for a small project on the VMC
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[18:01:11] <PetefromTn_> Damn my big forced air heater just died on me...
[18:01:56] <PetefromTn_> just set down on top of another power chord
[18:02:21] <PetefromTn_> and went to pull the chord to get some slack and it dropped off the chord which is like 3/8" thick and it shutoff..
[18:02:31] <PetefromTn_> now I can't get it to turn back on LOL
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[18:14:01] <SpeedEvil> Power chords kill so much stuff when you have the amp at 11.
[18:14:30] <PetefromTn_> well the problem was the tiny drop it took off the edge of the chord.
[18:14:43] <PetefromTn_> the whole base is like 3' long by about 1' wide
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[18:14:57] <PetefromTn_> so when one edge drops off even that little chord
[18:15:06] <PetefromTn_> it sounds like it fell a couple feet LOL
[18:15:22] <PetefromTn_> Just took it apart trying to determine if I can maybe fix it.
[18:15:43] <PetefromTn_> I wonder if it has a tipover alarm or kill in it that might have gotten tweaked from the drop.
[18:15:49] <jdh> try a g-minor
[18:16:04] <PetefromTn_> ?
[18:16:31] <jdh> it's a chord. Not a very good one though.
[18:16:52] <pcw_home> probably not a power chord
[18:16:58] <jdh> power chords are better in drop d
[18:17:02] <PetefromTn_> you sure are a comedian lately jdh LOL
[18:17:56] <jdh> 13:14 < SpeedEvil> Power chords kill so much stuff when you have the amp at 11.
[18:18:13] <jdh> sure, but you let him slide?
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[18:19:11] <zeeshan|2> how come you rarely find solder joints in 110v power distribution? :p
[18:19:16] <PetefromTn_> http://pastebin.com/57Re7t7s Here's my .ini file from the Cincinatti arrow 500
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[18:21:09] <PetefromTn_> http://pastebin.com/vuDGvhkk Here's my .hal file for the Cincinatti Arrow 500
[18:21:31] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to figure out what I need to change to get the machines native units to imerial without screwing it up LOL
[18:21:47] <jdh> copy the directory first
[18:22:11] <zeeshan|2> pretty much everything :(
[18:22:20] <jdh> don't see anything unit specific in the hal.
[18:22:28] <PetefromTn_> well I copied the folder Connor made that has all the important stuff for the machine to a flash drive.
[18:22:40] <zeeshan|2> jdh the velocities are in base units..
[18:22:48] <zeeshan|2> so ie his -35 home search vel
[18:22:50] <jdh> just copy it inside the config folder so you can use eithe rone.
[18:22:53] <zeeshan|2> is in mm..
[18:22:59] <jdh> wow, really.
[18:23:03] <zeeshan|2> i dont think he wants to hit 35 inches per min
[18:23:09] <zeeshan|2> by simply changing the unit
[18:23:10] <zeeshan|2> :P
[18:23:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is all metric natively
[18:23:26] <jdh> z: how many of those are in the hal
[18:23:29] <PetefromTn_> so I am going to need to change quite a bit of stuff I suppose
[18:23:36] <zeeshan|2> are you trolling
[18:23:37] <zeeshan|2> i cant tell
[18:23:41] <zeeshan|2> :P
[18:23:41] <PetefromTn_> but I REALLY REALLY need to do this
[18:23:58] <jthornton> LINEAR_UNITS = <units> - Specifies the machine units for linear axes. Possible choices are (in, inch, imperial, metric, mm). This does not affect the linear units in NC code (the G20 and G21 words do this).
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[18:24:15] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:TRAJ-section
[18:24:22] <zeeshan|2> yea
[18:24:28] <zeeshan|2> but you cant just change linear_units to in
[18:24:29] <PetefromTn_> sure I see that.
[18:24:31] <zeeshan|2> and expect it to work.
[18:24:35] <PetefromTn_> exactly
[18:24:37] <zeeshan|2> pete's asking what else you need to change
[18:24:47] <zeeshan|2> honestly i think the answer to that is.. wherever you see a number
[18:24:52] <zeeshan|2> you'll need to do a conversion :P
[18:24:53] <jthornton> nope you need to scale a bunch of stuff
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[18:25:04] <jdh> just linear's, not angulars. so, most but not quite all.
[18:25:14] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[18:25:19] <jdh> fire up 'units' in a terminal, copy/paste
[18:25:25] <pcw_home> Yes and your PID tuning will change also
[18:25:43] <PetefromTn_> my question is basically that is everything pertinent to this change contained in the hal and ini files or is it inside linuxCNC somehow now.
[18:25:55] <zeeshan|2> depends
[18:25:56] <jdh> just the .ini
[18:26:00] <PetefromTn_> FUCK that sucks...
[18:26:02] <zeeshan|2> sometimes the .hal has [axis] stuff
[18:26:44] <jdh> are you trolling?
[18:26:45] <PetefromTn_> why does it affect the pid tuning>
[18:26:49] <zeeshan|2> no jdh
[18:27:01] <zeeshan|2> stepconf generates a bunch of sdkljsadlj.[axis].sadakjsad 90231908123
[18:27:06] <zeeshan|2> that goes in the hal
[18:27:18] <zeeshan|2> i dont have my config in front of me
[18:27:24] <zeeshan|2> thats why i cant give a specific example :P
[18:27:47] <zeeshan|2> i lied
[18:27:52] <zeeshan|2> i forgot, i backed it up on the desktop
[18:28:19] <PetefromTn_> God I wish we did not make this thing metric to begin with. What were we thinking..
[18:28:34] <pcw_home> because the PID inputs are in machine units and typically people dont know enough to set the PID outputs to be also be in machine units
[18:28:38] <zeeshan|2> nm
[18:28:40] <jdh> wouldn't it be better to give a specific example from the .hal file he just posted rather than yours?
[18:28:41] <zeeshan|2> i think you might be OK
[18:28:43] <zeeshan|2> setp stepgen.0.maxaccel [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
[18:28:48] <zeeshan|2> its referring to the .ini
[18:29:09] <zeeshan|2> but its really easy to put a number there
[18:29:12] <zeeshan|2> instead of referring to the ini
[18:29:15] <zeeshan|2> so i'd check hal files too
[18:30:07] <PetefromTn_> so basically I'm screwed here...
[18:30:48] <zeeshan|2> can you not swap to inches
[18:30:49] <zeeshan|2> in the gui?
[18:30:50] <PetefromTn_> all I need really is to make the damn tool table settings output imperial instead of metric. everything else basically works fine..
[18:30:55] <pcw_home> No, but its something that needs to be done carefully (and dont touch your original files)
[18:30:56] <zeeshan|2> oh
[18:31:00] <PetefromTn_> sure the GUI is showing inches
[18:31:12] <PetefromTn_> but the damn tool table is metric
[18:31:23] <zeeshan|2> i guess that can get annoying
[18:31:24] <zeeshan|2> haha
[18:31:44] <PetefromTn_> we thought making it metric innate would be better since the screws are basically metric
[18:32:19] <pcw_home> not necessary...
[18:32:21] <PetefromTn_> but that was a massive mistake because I have some kinda hoodoo programming that makes the display SOMEWHAT imperial and other parts stay metric
[18:32:27] <zeeshan|2> well you know 25.4 mm = 1 inch
[18:32:32] <zeeshan|2> so you can go back and forth no prob
[18:32:46] <zeeshan|2> i set mine up in inches
[18:32:49] <zeeshan|2> even though the screws are imperial
[18:32:50] <zeeshan|2> er
[18:32:51] <zeeshan|2> metric
[18:32:58] <PetefromTn_> for instance right now upon startup the sliders labels are all metric
[18:33:07] <zeeshan|2> pete that's cool that your cinci uses metric screws
[18:33:10] <zeeshan|2> and it's made in usa?
[18:33:26] <PetefromTn_> until you go into machine and select mm then back to inch and it switches
[18:33:35] <PetefromTn_> I have to do this every time I start the damn machine.
[18:33:40] <zeeshan|2> im pretty sure you can change start up units
[18:33:44] <PetefromTn_> machine was made in Birmingham england
[18:33:45] <zeeshan|2> how to do it, i dont know :)
[18:33:59] <jdh> the .ini doesn't look too bad
[18:34:01] <PetefromTn_> I just need to get it fixed right now
[18:34:09] <jdh> and your PID stuff isn't so complicated either
[18:34:09] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_:
[18:34:13] <zeeshan|2> add this in your ini
[18:34:15] <zeeshan|2> under [DISPLAY]
[18:34:27] <zeeshan|2> actually nm
[18:34:28] <zeeshan|2> :P
[18:34:34] <zeeshan|2> i dont wanna screw your machine up
[18:34:35] <zeeshan|2> haha
[18:34:41] <PetefromTn_> neither do I
[18:34:56] <PetefromTn_> the damn thing works really good right now other than these annoyances
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[18:35:13] <zeeshan|2> jdh i think it looks easy to convert the units
[18:35:20] <PetefromTn_> is there a way to just change the damn tool table editor to imperial?
[18:35:22] <zeeshan|2> with the execpetion of PID FF etc
[18:35:22] <jdh> it does, just annoying
[18:35:29] <zeeshan|2> i'm not sure how those would scale
[18:35:35] <zeeshan|2> div 25.4 ?
[18:35:44] <zeeshan|2> for p
[18:35:50] <zeeshan|2> i div by vel?
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[18:35:56] <zeeshan|2> shrug
[18:36:17] <pcw_home> set the output scale to 25.4 X what it is now
[18:36:44] <zeeshan|2> encoder_scale?
[18:36:47] <zeeshan|2> er
[18:36:48] <zeeshan|2> output_scale
[18:36:49] <zeeshan|2> nm
[18:36:56] <PetefromTn_> in which hal or ini
[18:37:00] <PetefromTn_> can't find it yet
[18:37:00] <zeeshan|2> in your ini
[18:37:02] <zeeshan|2> under each axis
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[18:37:27] <pcw_home> depends on how the hal/ini were written
[18:37:41] <PetefromTn_> we used pncconf
[18:37:51] <PetefromTn_> then tweaked from there
[18:38:05] <pcw_home> most of those things tend to be in the INI file
[18:38:12] <PetefromTn_> looks that way
[18:38:38] <PetefromTn_> but I am afraid if I just change all the numbers from inch to metric we will be missing stuff somehow I don't understand
[18:39:11] <pcw_home> the analog out scalemax/maxlim/minlin may be set in the HAL file
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[18:39:33] <jdh> they aren't
[18:39:40] <jdh> his hal looks unit agnostic
[18:41:22] <jdh> only real number is spindle scaling
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[18:41:46] <PetefromTn_> that is neither metric nor imperial right>
[18:41:59] <jdh> right
[18:42:00] <pcw_home> yeah they are set in the ini:
[18:42:02] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_SCALE = 10
[18:42:03] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -10
[18:42:05] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 10
[18:42:14] <pcw_home> in volts :-(
[18:42:20] <jdh> heh
[18:42:38] <PetefromTn_> why is that bad?
[18:43:06] <pcw_home> umm because the output of the PID is not voltas but velocity
[18:43:24] <pcw_home> (it should be machine units/second)
[18:43:57] <pcw_home> (mm/sec on a metric machine and inches/sec on a imperial machine)
[18:44:35] <pcw_home> The advantage of doing this is that PID values are commensurate across machines and FF1 is 1.0
[18:44:42] <PetefromTn_> then how come it works? surely that is a voltage that refernces something else
[18:45:29] <jdh> it's just raw now
[18:46:06] <PetefromTn_> isn't everything relative to the machine setup contained in the .hal and .ini files or is there other places there is pertinent machine information?
[18:46:09] <pcw_home> it can always be made to work (tuning fixes and scaling)
[18:47:02] <jdh> Pete: everything you need to change is in your .ini
[18:47:05] <PetefromTn_> right now when I turn on the machine the linuxCNC program loads automatically upon startup
[18:47:30] <PetefromTn_> if I minimize it there is a folder on the desktop that has everyting pertinent in it called Cincinatti Arrow 500
[18:47:36] <jdh> make a copy of your current config dir and work in the copy.
[18:47:39] <PetefromTn_> I copied everything in it to a flash drive
[18:47:59] <PetefromTn_> I am not sure how to make linuxCNC use one or the other
[18:48:20] <PetefromTn_> like I can make the copy and tweak it to try things
[18:48:35] <PetefromTn_> but I don't understand how to make the program choose the other one
[18:49:44] <PetefromTn_> I am sure this is basic shit to you guys but again I am NOT good at this kind of thing. I want to learn how to do this because I will be doing it all again on the CNC lathe here soon.
[18:49:54] <jdh> auto-starting linuxcnc would bug me
[18:50:02] <PetefromTn_> actually I love it
[18:50:10] <PetefromTn_> just turn it on and go
[18:50:33] <PetefromTn_> makes it feel a lot more like a commercial machine
[18:51:04] <PetefromTn_> where would you guys recommend I start?
[18:51:21] <jdh> get a 1990's crt with phospor burn-in and some pushbuttons with worn out labels for the reall commercial feel.
[18:51:26] <zeeshan|2> auto starting linuxcnc sounds like something set in ubuntu
[18:51:37] <jdh> ignore teh auto-start for now
[18:51:40] <zeeshan|2> what config it uses is likely based on the start up parameters.
[18:51:53] <zeeshan|2> since you already have a backup
[18:51:57] <PetefromTn_> how do I change that?
[18:52:02] <zeeshan|2> i'd just start modifying the files in the folder you currently have
[18:52:07] <jdh> no
[18:52:07] <zeeshan|2> and making them work
[18:52:09] <zeeshan|2> =D
[18:52:10] <jdh> that is a terrible idea
[18:52:14] <zeeshan|2> no its not
[18:52:17] <zeeshan|2> if it fails
[18:52:19] <zeeshan|2> you overwrite the folder
[18:52:21] <zeeshan|2> and it all works :)
[18:52:39] <jdh> do not screw with your working config
[18:52:52] <PetefromTn_> keep in mind this is not a toy table top router... its a 7klb machining center LOL
[18:52:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.incrediblethings.com/style-and-gear/battle-armor-for-cats/
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[18:53:07] <SpeedEvil> I've been idlly wondering about hardsuits for cats.
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[18:53:36] <PetefromTn_> I am kinda surprised that there is not a simple setting to change the units in the tool table.
[18:53:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.oceanworks.com/our-business/services/ads-services/
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[18:57:31] <pcw_home> so if you set
[18:57:32] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_SCALE = .3937
[18:57:34] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -.3937
[18:57:36] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = .3937
[18:57:37] <pcw_home> you wont need to change your PID settings
[18:58:00] <zeeshan|2> 10/25.4?
[18:58:03] <PetefromTn_> Wow that would be great are you sure?
[18:58:03] <zeeshan|2> :D
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[18:58:39] <PetefromTn_> honestly PID tuning for us was kinda intimidating LOL. Especially the Z axis
[18:58:57] <jdh> do you have units(1) installed?
[18:59:48] <pcw_home> thrn basically all velocity and accel setting get divided by 25.4, input scale gets multiplied by 25.4
[18:59:50] <pcw_home> and a bunch of stuff i probably forgot...
[18:59:53] <jdh> but, more importantly, do you know how to make a copy of your ~/linuxcnc/configs/<yourmachinename>
[19:00:17] <pcw_home> and hand on estop...
[19:00:51] <PetefromTn_> Oh hell yea
[19:00:53] <pcw_home> ohh ferror limits /25.4
[19:01:05] <PetefromTn_> I am very familiar with that estop thing
[19:01:34] <PetefromTn_> I am fairly comfortable with making single changes to the .ini and .hal and trying it but this is something completely different
[19:02:15] <PetefromTn_> jdh no not really
[19:02:39] <PetefromTn_> like I said I have a copy of the folder that contains everyting we did for the machine that Connor put on the desktop
[19:03:11] <PetefromTn_> it is on my laptop now which is how I got the files to picbin
[19:03:19] <PetefromTn_> or pastebin
[19:04:14] <PetefromTn_> just never made another set and activated that new set like this. not sure how to make linuxCNC choose the alternate set of files.
[19:04:43] <PetefromTn_> Andypugh was talking about how his machine has setups for lathe operation, mill operations, etc etc.
[19:11:26] <zeeshan|2> someone with more experience.. plz answer this
[19:11:32] <zeeshan|2> i have tons of SOOW cable
[19:11:40] <zeeshan|2> when you rip off the outer insulation
[19:11:52] <zeeshan|2> the wires inside seem to have a pretty shitty insulation
[19:12:10] <zeeshan|2> is it better just to run single wires with a proper jacket like MTW 90 deg wire
[19:12:22] <zeeshan|2> or SOOW
[19:12:33] <zeeshan|2> lemme show why i ask this:
[19:13:29] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16005576822/
[19:13:39] <zeeshan|2> notice the long white wire
[19:13:42] <zeeshan|2> look at how crappy it is!
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[19:15:35] <SolarNRG> alright gents
[19:16:20] <SolarNRG> quick question: Why don't modern ratchet hand drills have 3 prong chucks instead of 4? It's really annoying cos i spent 25 euros on one and it won;t fit my hole saw now
[19:20:12] <zeeshan|2> plz help! :{
[19:20:36] <SolarNRG> zeeshan sup
[19:20:52] <zeeshan|2> can you use SOOW inside an electrical enclosure?
[19:20:55] <SpeedEvil> what is a modern ratchett hand drill?
[19:22:07] <SolarNRG> speedevil: I basically got one of these only its a draper and its blue: http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00mUrEKBQgRTVa/Ratchet-Drill.jpg
[19:22:38] <zeeshan|2> im looking at NEC article 400
[19:22:39] <zeeshan|2> and it says
[19:22:52] <zeeshan|2> "The first thing to understand about flexible cords is the NEC does not consider them "a wiring method." '
[19:22:56] <SpeedEvil> the chucks are designed to grip specially designed bits
[19:23:24] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan|2: does the NEC even apply inside machines?
[19:23:32] <zeeshan|2> ofcourse
[19:23:35] <PetefromTn_> is it for speedy tapping or something?
[19:23:48] <zeeshan|2> nec knows all :D
[19:23:55] <SolarNRG> speedevil, I want a pillar mounted, metal geared, long lever hand powered drill that can fit a hole saw so I can get fit drilling large diameter holes thru steel, any suggestions bar welding a chuck to some rebar in 2 thrust bearings?
[19:24:34] <PetefromTn_> why would you want a hand drill?
[19:24:35] <SolarNRG> My cnc is still under construction I've been working on the thrust bearing mounts for the 33mm trapezoid thread today
[19:24:47] <SolarNRG> when I got my working system I won't need it pete :)
[19:24:47] <SpeedEvil> Why the hell hand powered
[19:24:50] <zeeshan|2> okay
[19:24:56] <zeeshan|2> article 300 pretty much is what you follow for inside a machine
[19:25:05] <zeeshan|2> you're not supposed to use flexible cords
[19:25:08] <zeeshan|2> to wire shit inside a machine
[19:25:14] <zeeshan|2> well SOOW or SJOW that is
[19:25:17] <SolarNRG> And my drill press is bottom dollar powerplus5 and won't handle hole saws even on slowest speeds even with a tonne of grease
[19:25:33] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: cut off 90% of the teeth
[19:25:53] <SolarNRG> ??? off the holesaw?
[19:25:57] <SolarNRG> with the grinder?
[19:26:02] <SolarNRG> omg that's a genius idea
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[19:26:21] <SolarNRG> f*cking genius speeddevil!
[19:26:43] <SolarNRG> and how do I stop the chuck from constantly dropping off the machine when I got the hole saw moutned?
[19:26:51] <zeeshan|2> http://img.tjskl.org.cn/nimg/23/d9/9bf692182312b724de4cd34b3cc7-0x0-0/flexible_copper_pvc_insulated_pvc_jacket_strong_style_color_b82220_electrical_strong_wire.jpg
[19:26:56] <zeeshan|2> can you buy that at home depot?
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[19:27:16] <SpeedEvil> Clean the chuck and the taper with solvent.
[19:27:22] <SpeedEvil> Ram it home firmly
[19:27:37] <SpeedEvil> If you don't want it to ever come out accidentally, you can then use loctite
[19:27:50] <SolarNRG> speedevil will brandy work as a solvent?
[19:28:03] <SpeedEvil> I do not think brandy is a solvent for most machine oils
[19:28:17] <zeeshan|2> ROFL
[19:28:20] <cradek> jacobs and morse tapers aren't meant for side loads - be sure pressure is straight down
[19:28:29] <zeeshan|2> cradek lies
[19:28:30] <SolarNRG> Cos we got some brandy in the mail today from scotland
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[19:28:38] <cradek> onoz
[19:28:39] <zeeshan|2> a couple days ago i learned something new
[19:28:43] <zeeshan|2> you can use morse taper for side loads
[19:28:48] <zeeshan|2> [cube]'s machine has a morse taper
[19:28:51] <zeeshan|2> but it has a drawbar!
[19:29:00] <cradek> uh yeah that's why they have drawbars
[19:29:00] <SolarNRG> won't grinding off 90% of the teeth make the holesaw unbalanced?
[19:29:02] <zeeshan|2> so weird :p
[19:29:07] <cradek> leave opposite teeth
[19:29:12] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: you grind them off in a balanced pattern
[19:29:18] <zeeshan|2> so you can use both those tapers as long as there is a drawbar :P
[19:29:27] <SpeedEvil> The point is that the load and cutting per tooth remains the same
[19:29:40] <SpeedEvil> Also - your crappy drill-press probably can't go slow enough for sane cutting speeds
[19:29:45] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: why do you need holes
[19:29:49] <SpeedEvil> And in what
[19:29:54] <tiwake> getting ready to make some titanium shot glasses
[19:30:01] <SpeedEvil> tiwake: nice
[19:30:05] <SolarNRG> I got these thrust bearings like 64mm in outer diameter 30mm inner bore diam
[19:30:17] <SolarNRG> I'm gonna put the trapezoid thread in two of these
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[19:30:27] <tiwake> any idea what RPM and feedrate I should run a 1" carbide spade drill?
[19:30:45] <cradek> in titanium?
[19:30:49] <tiwake> yeah
[19:30:55] <SolarNRG> I'm making the holes thrugh 2 8mm thick angle iron 100mmx100mm and the bottom is 70mm
[19:30:57] <cradek> no idea!
[19:31:18] <SolarNRG> and I'm gonna weld those to the box steel that'll be my linear actuator
[19:31:22] <cradek> SolarNRG: you need to get down to 100sfm then - how big is the hole saw?
[19:31:30] <tiwake> I've ran titanium stuff before, its not too bad as long as there is plenty of cooland
[19:31:32] <tiwake> coolant
[19:31:33] <SolarNRG> 64mm
[19:31:37] <SolarNRG> its a bit bigger than the bearing
[19:31:40] <cradek> eeee
[19:31:42] <SolarNRG> shop only had 64mm or 60mm
[19:32:06] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: a decent jigsaw may almost be easier
[19:32:22] <SpeedEvil> then tidy up with a die grinder
[19:32:41] <SolarNRG> rotory tool with stone endbit?
[19:33:44] <SolarNRG> hang on I'll take a photo and that'd make it easier to explain brb
[19:33:56] <cradek> if you don't have 100-200 rpm on your drill press you can't cut a 2.5" hole in steel
[19:34:28] <SpeedEvil> If it's being welded on - chain drilling may be quite reasonable
[19:34:54] <cradek> yes chain drill, cut out with a coping saw, file to fit
[19:35:29] <tiwake> I have no motivation today
[19:36:19] <PetefromTn_> thats some large angle iron
[19:37:22] <PetefromTn_> might be better off taking it to a local shop and have them cut it right for you would be a lot easier
[19:37:25] <cradek> I'm surprised you still have any teeth on the hole saw if you were running it at (cheap) drill press speeds
[19:39:54] <SolarNRG> ok here's my photo one on the left is the angle iron segment I attmepted with the crappy drill press and hole saw didn't jam funnily enough the chuck fell out the one on the right has a bearing in place how I'd like it to sort of "slot in" http://i.imgur.com/5YGUynj.jpg
[19:40:09] <SolarNRG> I modified the belts to go on mega slow speeds cradek
[19:40:21] <SolarNRG> and I was flooding that thing with coolant as I went
[19:41:03] <PetefromTn_> this is for a bearing press fit??
[19:41:29] <SpeedEvil> weld to the outside of
[19:41:36] <SolarNRG> well the idea is my massive trapezoid thread is going between the two thrust bearings with another plate welded on behind for the stepper pulley assembly to go on
[19:42:15] <SolarNRG> this 100mmx100mmx1500mm box steel 8mm thick that's gonna be the frame of my machine I hope will mill steel to a reasonable standard
[19:42:31] <SolarNRG> This is my first machine and I know I've undertaken a big project
[19:42:46] <SolarNRG> but I really don't want some crappy circuit board miller
[19:42:52] <SolarNRG> or jewellery engraver
[19:43:01] <cradek> SolarNRG: what rpm did you end up with?
[19:43:27] <SolarNRG> Don't know the exact rpm but at a guess I'd say like 2-4 hz
[19:43:43] <cradek> 2 turns a second would be about right
[19:43:55] <SolarNRG> this is a slow as the machine will go
[19:44:00] <cradek> 4 would be way too high
[19:45:00] <SolarNRG> hence why I was asking why the manufacturers of drills have to be such assholes and they discontinued production of 1890's two handed ratchet drills with big long levers that third world countries could mill through steel with no problem
[19:45:33] <SolarNRG> now for a much higher price and lack of availability the ONLY thing available was this piece of junk powerplus 5 and I honestly can't wait for a 3 axix setup with a 5kw cnc endmill
[19:45:37] <PetefromTn_> what country are you in?
[19:45:37] <SolarNRG> that's be like totally sweet
[19:45:54] <SolarNRG> uk
[19:46:11] <cradek> I'd mill this for you with a 3/8 end mill if you were nearby
[19:46:16] <PetefromTn_> agreed
[19:46:45] <PetefromTn_> still not sure of the whole setup or how it is going together
[19:47:07] <PetefromTn_> I would try to find a local with a milling machine and buy him a pint....
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[19:48:40] <SolarNRG> http://i.imgur.com/HPKVcAY.jpg
[19:48:42] <SolarNRG> like that
[19:49:07] <SolarNRG> but instead of trying to put the thread under the rails I figured I'd have the thread level with the rails using the angle iron
[19:49:35] <SolarNRG> its all companies nowadays round here and they;re all a**holes
[19:51:59] <SolarNRG> picked up the box steel pretty cheap acually
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[19:53:15] <SolarNRG> here's a look at some of the parts I've been assembling bit by bit when I'm not working: http://i.imgur.com/22gLwsc.jpg
[19:53:28] <SolarNRG> on the far left is the box steel I was on about I got plenty of that
[19:54:34] <SolarNRG> middle is the 33mm trap thread with the "bolt" bottom left are again the thrust bearings middle right are the 50mm stainless pipes I considered using as rails and bottom right I also got 29mm stainless bar I could use as rails
[19:55:12] <SolarNRG> considered using them crane pulleys and fabricating my own linear bearings
[19:55:44] <SolarNRG> this project of mine has been going on for about 2 years now and I'm getting more parts here and htere but I really want it to get into full swing
[19:56:01] <SolarNRG> and I could really use ur advice
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[19:58:22] <SolarNRG> Oh and here's a concept 3d model I did in blender of the linear bearing I was planning on assembling: http://i.imgur.com/V9vunuY.jpg
[19:59:38] <PetefromTn_> Hm
[19:59:46] <PetefromTn_> looking at those pictures
[20:00:18] <SolarNRG> oh and here's a closer look at the thrust bearings disassembled: http://i.imgur.com/wUApAr7.jpg
[20:00:24] <PetefromTn_> I would be inclined to use the square tubing as rails and make the frame from that
[20:00:49] <PetefromTn_> those look like tapered roller bearings
[20:01:11] <PetefromTn_> and the trapezoid thread is hard to see but that looks like an acme lead screw
[20:01:12] <SolarNRG> what like just weld a bit of angle iron on each end two roller bearings job done sorta thing?
[20:01:25] <SolarNRG> yeah that's what it is acme lead screw cost like 55 quid
[20:01:36] <SolarNRG> that was well expensive but no way am I using normal thread
[20:01:39] <cradek> are you sure welding to bearings is a thing to do?
[20:01:50] <PetefromTn_> well the Mechmate machine uses a nice setup that you grind your own rails with a grinder on a rolling plate
[20:02:04] <SolarNRG> nah u cant weld bearings but u can weld what the bearings attach to then mount the bearings in after
[20:02:04] <PetefromTn_> That is what I was wondering if he was going to do LOL
[20:02:26] <SolarNRG> last time I welded anything that's supposed to move it got stuck duh
[20:02:29] <SolarNRG> duh me not u
[20:02:38] <PetefromTn_> I would forget about using the round tube for rails I doubt they will be straight enough
[20:02:47] <SolarNRG> I didn't even weld the bit that was supposed to move just the heat warpage stopped it moving anymore
[20:03:27] <PetefromTn_> check out the mechmate machines might give you some better ideas of how to make it. that is an all steel machine
[20:03:36] <SolarNRG> lookin
[20:03:41] <PetefromTn_> there are quite a few videos on youtube showing how it goes together
[20:03:54] <PetefromTn_> not saying you need to make it JUST like that of course
[20:04:18] <PetefromTn_> there is a lot of plate steel in the gantry and Z
[20:04:30] <PetefromTn_> but the way it goes together might give you some better ideas.
[20:04:40] <SolarNRG> how clattery is it?
[20:04:47] <SolarNRG> any indiependent reviews on it?
[20:04:55] <PetefromTn_> not sure what clattery means
[20:05:28] <SolarNRG> jink jink jink dunk dunk dunk knock knock knock bang bang bang shake shake shake rattle rattle rattle as it mills
[20:06:56] <SolarNRG> resulting in the system going off center and the cuts basically being crap
[20:07:01] <PetefromTn_> from what I have seen of the MEchmate machine it is very rigid and strong
[20:07:06] <SolarNRG> :)
[20:07:12] <SolarNRG> that's all I wanted to hear
[20:07:13] <PetefromTn_> lots of folks cut aluminum plate with it
[20:08:01] <SolarNRG> didn't know about the mechmate seems like a relatively new design
[20:08:07] <PetefromTn_> you will probably never be able to make any real cuts in steel tho...
[20:09:02] <PetefromTn_> if I was going to make a large format CNC router today I would be looking at the mechmate design for sure.. not anything I have seen elsewhere that really is better from my view
[20:09:25] <SolarNRG> so it's alright for boring out 80% lowers but its crap for making new morris minor engine parts
[20:09:55] <SolarNRG> petefromtn, what's its weakness the lack of a descent endmill or the lack of rigidity?
[20:10:03] <PetefromTn_> if you want to make 80% lowers and engine parts you really need a CNC milling machine not a CNC router table
[20:11:44] <SolarNRG> tbh I couldn't care less about crappy jammy up american firearms parts prefer the kaleshnikov any day haha but car parts of out of make antique cars are serious money
[20:12:07] <PetefromTn_> not saying it can't be done but you are going to want some precision cuts
[20:12:21] <PetefromTn_> that is difficult to attain with a router
[20:12:22] <SolarNRG> yeah precision is what I'm going for
[20:12:42] <zeeshan|2> man i hate having an european machine
[20:12:43] <SolarNRG> I seen the alibaba thing for the 5kw cnc endmill they accept wu
[20:12:49] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt meet any of the nec standards
[20:12:52] <zeeshan|2> like neutral is BLUE
[20:12:54] <zeeshan|2> not white
[20:13:01] <zeeshan|2> so i have to buy wire now.
[20:13:01] <SolarNRG> yeah and live is brown
[20:13:07] <SolarNRG> earth is yellow and green
[20:13:07] <zeeshan|2> so lame
[20:13:13] <zeeshan|2> SolarNRG: exactly!
[20:13:20] <zeeshan|2> i have like 50 feet of this wire
[20:13:21] <zeeshan|2> that i cant use
[20:13:24] <zeeshan|2> cause its a different color.
[20:13:29] <SolarNRG> yeah but at least european cars dont have limiters on
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[20:14:22] <zeeshan|2> Wires that have their outer covering finished to show a white or gray color but have colored tracer threads in the braid identifying the source of manufacture are considered to meet the provisions of this section. The use of white tape, paint, or other methods of identification isn't permitted for grounded conductors 6 AWG or smaller
[20:14:25] <SolarNRG> umm pvc tape over it?
[20:14:40] <zeeshan|2> cant do it
[20:14:43] <zeeshan|2> for smaller wires.
[20:14:44] <zeeshan|2> :-(
[20:15:12] <zeeshan|2> you know these are the rules for a circuit conductor
[20:15:27] <zeeshan|2> i dunno how true it is for power distribution within an enclosure
[20:15:48] <renesis> ?
[20:15:56] <zeeshan|2> ?
[20:16:00] <renesis> youre not selling it why do you have to meet safety compliance
[20:16:19] <zeeshan|2> because if the house burns down because of it
[20:16:24] <zeeshan|2> i have documentation
[20:16:26] <SolarNRG> umm colour coding does help u not to accidentally wire it wrong and make very expensive mistakes
[20:16:37] <SolarNRG> especially when the wire count goes above like 10 or so
[20:16:38] <zeeshan|2> and what SolarNRGs says
[20:16:45] <renesis> i mean, make sure its safe but i wouldnt go nuts over 8mm vs 9mm or 4mm with double insulation
[20:20:33] <renesis> anyway, colors arent going to start fires unless human error, gap and insulation and earth tie down issues might
[20:20:50] <SolarNRG> I mean imagine waiting for like a month or so and spending a few thousand on a robust powerful cnc water cooled endmill then wiring it wrong because u scrimped on coloured wires and u put brown to blue or something dumb like that and bang poof the lights dim, u unplug u find the torch go outside to the garage find the tripswitch and when u rewire the machine u find ur device u spent all that money on and time waiting for it to arrive in the mail is
[20:20:50] <SolarNRG> DEAD
[20:21:40] <renesis> human error, documentation issues
[20:22:38] <SolarNRG> yeah but anything u can do to reduce u confusing urself and leading to potential human error is good isn't it?
[20:24:18] <renesis> always, but schedules and money happen, at the very least make sure its safe without human fuckups
[20:25:00] <renesis> prototypes are usually a compromise, zees thing is a prototype
[20:25:15] <SolarNRG> I like to find youtube vids of someone else doing it, fraps it, compress it print out screenshots of someone elses when its working and study it over and over before I even wire one thing into another jsut to be damn sure I done it right
[20:25:37] <SolarNRG> yeah if ur the first person doing it u got a bit of educated guesswork to do
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[20:36:38] <tiwake> with titanium, do I want to use carbide inserts I typically use for aluminum or steels?
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[20:36:59] <SolarNRG> all i know about titanium is its loads harder than steel
[20:37:18] <SolarNRG> tungsten carbides harder than ti iirc
[20:37:33] <SolarNRG> diamond will work albeit slow
[20:38:06] <tiwake> well
[20:38:12] <tiwake> *shrug*
[20:38:17] <tiwake> I'll try things I guess
[20:38:25] <SolarNRG> yeah hss won;t cut it
[20:38:39] <SolarNRG> forget anything intended for stainless
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[20:39:21] <tiwake> it seems to me titanium is easier to cut than 316 stainless
[20:39:28] <tiwake> at least thats what I recall
[20:39:44] <tiwake> as long as there is enough coolant on it so it does not work harden
[20:39:47] <SolarNRG> u can defo cut it with a zirconium angle grinder disk
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[20:39:54] <SolarNRG> oxycetaline will usually cut it
[20:40:09] <PetefromTn_> http://www.kennametal.com/content/dam/kennametal/kennametal/common/Resources/Catalogs-Literature/Industry%20Solutions/Titanium_material_machining_guide_Aerospace.pdf
[20:40:09] <tiwake> by cut I mean turn
[20:41:20] <SolarNRG> I remember reading in some catalog somethign about a 6 flute high nickel endmill suitable for ti
[20:46:46] <SolarNRG> its worth remembering however that just because something is harder than the thing ur trying to cut doesn't mean it has a higher tensile/tortional strength, i.e. it can break and shatter rather than blunt
[20:47:34] <SolarNRG> yeah 316 stainless has loads higher tensile strength than titanium albeit titanium is harder
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[21:58:06] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:04:43] <zeeshan|2> http://images.esellerpro.com/2485/I/216/6/PL10580a.jpg
[22:04:48] <zeeshan|2> for this connector thats within an enclosure
[22:05:04] <zeeshan|2> http://www.awcwire.com/Portals/0/CVStoreImages/mtw-tew-wire_400.jpg
[22:05:06] <zeeshan|2> can i use this kind of wire
[22:05:09] <zeeshan|2> that has no outer jacket?
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[22:26:51] <renesis> zeeshan|2: are you worried the fiberboard is going to eat through the insulation?
[22:27:17] <renesis> you could double heatshrink there, those connectors are always kind of janky
[22:27:44] <renesis> id be more worried about loose strands from stripping shorting things
[22:28:12] <renesis> and id try and put some sort of strain releif loop on the cable going into that connector
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[22:38:41] <zeeshan|2> renesis: you didnt answer the q :P
[22:38:59] <zeeshan|2> note how the rubber piece is tapered
[22:39:08] <zeeshan|2> i think thats supposed to grab onto a pvc outer jacket
[22:39:15] <zeeshan|2> on top of the orange strain relief thing
[22:39:26] <zeeshan|2> it looks so weird to have 3 wires coming out of there
[22:39:29] <zeeshan|2> with no outer jacket
[22:40:11] <renesis> i answered the question
[22:40:42] <renesis> use some heatshrink to protect the wire from getting chewed up by the fiberboard clamp
[22:40:54] <zeeshan|2> oh im not worried about that
[22:40:56] <zeeshan|2> mine is a plastic clamp
[22:41:01] <renesis> and loop to compensate for the lack of tension from the rubber boot
[22:41:58] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16006673692/
[22:41:59] <zeeshan|2> wiring mess
[22:42:15] <zeeshan|2> wires are just layed out
[22:43:32] <renesis> just the top left
[22:43:33] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: the extra outer jacket is to make it easier to pull through conduit
[22:44:15] <zeeshan|2> im gonna use ren's idea
[22:44:23] <zeeshan|2> im gonna double heat shrink @ the clamp
[22:44:28] <zeeshan|2> so it clamps somewhat evenly
[22:44:45] <zeeshan|2> and fak it, it'll just have individual condutors coming out of that round conduit thing
[22:44:48] <renesis> those connectors are so fuckin sketchy
[22:44:55] <zeeshan|2> why
[22:45:00] <zeeshan|2> thats how plugs look like
[22:45:03] <zeeshan|2> for receptacles
[22:45:03] <CaptHindsight> if you're going to be plugging and unplugging often then you'll want a different connector
[22:45:05] <zeeshan|2> like 240v shit
[22:45:18] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: like what?
[22:45:27] <renesis> yeah but the molded shit is functional by nature, those things almost always feel cheap
[22:45:27] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16005576822/in/photostream/
[22:45:32] <zeeshan|2> you can see how i did my PC supply
[22:45:51] <CaptHindsight> higher priced twist lock
[22:45:52] <zeeshan|2> i dont have proper pvc outer jacket wire
[22:46:00] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: not an option
[22:46:01] <renesis> honestly, i would look to see if neutrik powercon can handle the load before considering anything else
[22:46:05] <zeeshan|2> servo drives output iec connector
[22:46:20] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: so why did you ask? :)
[22:46:20] <zeeshan|2> it wasnt my choice to use a lame iec connector
[22:46:31] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: i never asked what connector to use
[22:46:44] <zeeshan|2> i asked if individual conductors , 3 of them
[22:46:48] <zeeshan|2> are okay to come out of a connector like that
[22:46:51] <CaptHindsight> CaptHindsight: like what?
[22:46:55] <renesis> yeah ive had to use those for power entry on test fixtures
[22:47:11] <renesis> but only because we didnt have enough IEC cables to cut up
[22:47:16] <CaptHindsight> maybe you're asking for my oatmeal cookie recipe
[22:47:22] <zeeshan|2> dude iec connector is the lamest type
[22:47:26] <zeeshan|2> for a servo drive.
[22:47:33] <renesis> and i wasnt they dont lock
[22:47:35] <zeeshan|2> why the f does amc think
[22:47:42] <zeeshan|2> an iec connector should be used OVER pin pads
[22:47:44] <zeeshan|2> terminals
[22:47:45] <renesis> QSC put locking IEC connectors on their K series speakers
[22:47:49] <renesis> its revolutionary
[22:47:59] <renesis> how sad is that, that a locking iec is fucking ground breaking
[22:48:03] <zeeshan|2> its not like their servo drive is nema4 or something
[22:48:17] <renesis> i mean that in a paradigm shifting sort of way, not electrical earth sort of way
[22:48:25] <renesis> anyway, consider getting a cable
[22:48:33] <zeeshan|2> honestly i called like
[22:48:37] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: 1)yes, 2)no, 3) at least for the first few hours, 4) only when walking that way
[22:48:38] <renesis> with an overmolded iec end, standard cable that fits your drive
[22:48:38] <zeeshan|2> 10 different electrical suppliers today
[22:48:46] <zeeshan|2> none of them for some reason have a PVC outer jacket
[22:48:47] <renesis> and wiring it into a terminal on a din rail
[22:48:50] <zeeshan|2> with 3 thhn in them
[22:49:20] <zeeshan|2> well it goes to the fuse holder
[22:49:21] <zeeshan|2> no a terminal
[22:49:23] <zeeshan|2> *not
[22:49:29] <zeeshan|2> i mean contactor
[22:49:40] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: i dont know what youre talking about
[22:50:20] <zeeshan|2> i have a shit load of soow cable
[22:50:21] <CaptHindsight> thats makes 2 of us
[22:50:26] <zeeshan|2> but nec says in article 400
[22:50:28] <renesis> anyway, if you use that thing, i would loop and fix the wires going in
[22:50:29] <zeeshan|2> not to use cab tire wire
[22:50:35] <zeeshan|2> as a "wiring method"
[22:50:39] <renesis> the boot isnt going to do shit for strain relief
[22:50:46] <zeeshan|2> and i believe them, cause cab tire wire is pretty flimsy
[22:50:49] <zeeshan|2> and easy to cut
[22:50:55] <zeeshan|2> especially the inner conductor rubber insulation
[22:51:26] <zeeshan|2> tehres gotta be a place that sells 14awg wire locally that has 3 conductors and a pvc outer jacket
[22:51:32] <zeeshan|2> you see that kind of cable all the time on machines
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[22:51:42] <renesis> why do you want pvc so bad
[22:51:53] <zeeshan|2> nylon pvc
[22:51:56] <zeeshan|2> non rubber!
[22:52:22] <renesis> silicone insulation is good stuff, usually way thick
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[22:53:13] <renesis> ive only used stuff with rubber outer cover, the electrical wire insulation is silicone
[22:53:13] <jdh> way thick and takes up too much space
[22:53:34] <zeeshan|2> read article 400
[22:53:37] <renesis> yeah would be annoying for chassis wiring
[22:53:44] <zeeshan|2> it says clearly not to use flexible wiring like soow sjow
[22:53:46] <renesis> for test leads and speaker cable is sexy as fuck
[22:53:47] <zeeshan|2> for wiring
[22:53:56] <zeeshan|2> its really meant for motor to enclosure
[22:54:00] <renesis> but yeah, good wire = teflon, pvc is usually pretty meh
[22:54:01] <zeeshan|2> type of shit
[22:54:17] <jdh> I like 18/3 SOOW
[22:54:23] <jdh> for dive lights though.
[22:56:55] <renesis> zeeshan|2: for internal hookup wire, teflon is gooey sex
[22:57:25] <renesis> but yeah i would just get an iec cable and strip ends and do a short run to din block terminals or whatever
[22:57:32] <Jymm> teflon is for boats and planes.
[22:57:44] <renesis> teflon is for when you can afford it!
[22:58:30] <Jymm> Teflon is for when there is a toxic pvc fire and no means of escape.
[22:58:40] <renesis> or would could just rail splice and solder and heatshrink a cable end onto some hookup wire
[22:59:32] <zeeshan|2> i use teflon when its submerged in gas tank
[22:59:33] <renesis> pvc insulation is weak, shit tears easy
[22:59:37] <zeeshan|2> everything else will die in there
[23:00:12] <renesis> can cut through some pvc insulation with a fingernail
[23:00:51] <renesis> the rigidity is nice for rework, too
[23:01:14] <renesis> tiny stuff, the pvc insulated stuff is a joke, wet noodle
[23:01:36] <renesis> also it just feels so good
[23:01:55] <renesis> also when you solder with it, it hardly pulls back from heat if at all
[23:02:02] <renesis> its just better wire to have on hand
[23:03:15] <Jymm> and expensive as fuck
[23:03:25] <renesis> dont waste it
[23:03:53] <renesis> and not really if you dont need it new and online retail
[23:04:11] <renesis> surplus electronic shops will usually have some
[23:04:17] <Jymm> Heh, I scavange cloth covered wires form appliances
[23:04:29] <renesis> heh, place in the san fernando valley has like hundreds of reels of the shit
[23:04:41] <Jymm> ReadError: what place?
[23:04:50] <renesis> something about gov contractors cant reuse wire on other gov contracts or some shit
[23:04:51] <Jymm> err renesis
[23:05:08] <Jymm> yeah, tracability.
[23:05:16] <renesis> apex
[23:05:34] <Jymm> in van nuys?
[23:05:34] <renesis> in sun valley, or pacoima or somewhere in the north east valley
[23:05:40] <renesis> no thats all
[23:05:41] <Jymm> ah
[23:05:48] <renesis> thats on kester and oxnard
[23:06:05] <Jymm> You ever get to Dow Electronics in pasadena?
[23:06:09] <renesis> this is like, san fernando rd towards
[23:06:12] <renesis> oh
[23:06:23] <renesis> you know i think maybe, my friend took my there
[23:06:34] <Jymm> On Colorado Blvd
[23:06:44] <Jymm> Across from Pasadena City College
[23:06:45] <renesis> lots of old psu and generators, hes old audio hacker
[23:06:52] <renesis> yeah i think i been there
[23:07:00] <Jymm> No, that's dwn the street, ld military gear
[23:07:02] <renesis> old guy prices shit like he dont want to sell it
[23:07:05] <Jymm> old*
[23:07:20] <renesis> yeah dunno, been someplace in that area
[23:07:23] <Jymm> Dow is actually electronics, not surplus
[23:07:35] <renesis> mostly i just went to all and apex
[23:07:44] <Jymm> ah
[23:07:58] <Jymm> I know the place you are talking about though.
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[23:08:20] <renesis> my friend repairs tube amps, so hes always looking for old parts
[23:08:28] <Jymm> ah
[23:08:54] <renesis> so i tag along with him to the electronics shops that are left, and sometimes to the trw swap meet
[23:09:17] <renesis> all that shit mostly gone since i been into electronics
[23:09:36] <Jymm> Is TRW still going? I thought they shut it down years ago
[23:09:50] <renesis> like, there was maybe 4 places to get parts in the valley, besides frys and radioshack, when i started
[23:09:54] <Jymm> TRW swap meet that is
[23:09:55] <renesis> and now 2 are closed
[23:10:06] <renesis> well it was a couple years ago
[23:10:17] <renesis> everyone said its very small compared to what it was
[23:10:18] <Jymm> Cool, good to hear.
[23:10:29] <renesis> lots of china tools, still some people selling old test gear
[23:10:31] <Jymm> Oh it was HUGE
[23:10:39] <renesis> haha, lots and lots of tek modules of questionable state
[23:10:59] <renesis> i bought a portable 2 channel tek analog scope
[23:11:05] <renesis> one of the one with the flip top
[23:11:06] <Jymm> IT was a geeks/hams wet dream coem true.
[23:11:36] <renesis> really like it, dont use it, people have used oversized china BNC pins on it, so decent BNC sometimes get intermittent
[23:12:08] <Jymm> There used to be a GTE surplus place too. All the telco gear you coudl think of, MASSIVE warehouse of it.
[23:12:19] <renesis> that would be cool
[23:12:28] <renesis> apex is still pretty big
[23:12:30] <Jymm> I mena MASSIVE... and completely full
[23:12:38] <renesis> shelves all leaning with 70s and 80s test gear
[23:12:46] <Jymm> barly could get a forkift throught the isles
[23:13:11] <renesis> yeah im sure apex has some unspoken thing goin with the city
[23:13:12] <Jymm> racks upon racks of switching stuff was the bulk of it
[23:13:25] <renesis> that shit cant be passin fire code
[23:13:37] <renesis> shit every, shelves fallen over leaning on other shelves
[23:14:04] <renesis> pilars of wire reels, with wire, leaned on other pillars leaning on sagging shelves
[23:14:24] <renesis> its awesome
[23:14:37] <renesis> they must own the place and have some other business, heh
[23:14:49] <renesis> hardly anyone in there when i been, they cant sell much
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[23:19:22] <SpeedEvil> But when he dies he does win the 'most stuff' prize
[23:22:37] <Valen> probably getting nasa money
[23:22:45] <Valen> or at least they were when the shuttles were flying
[23:23:01] <Valen> they had a team of people searching ebay for old CPU's and such like
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[23:24:03] <renesis> who?
[23:25:16] <Valen> the people with the warehouse full of old electronics
[23:25:26] <renesis> theyre just stuck with it
[23:25:28] <Valen> getting moneys from selling crap to nasa
[23:25:36] <renesis> maybe sell it all for pennies on the dollar
[23:32:38] <_methods> penises on the dollar?
[23:33:28] <renesis> thats so many penises
[23:33:57] <renesis> even if they got a penis for every 100 pieces of junk test equipment
[23:33:59] <_methods> hahah
[23:34:23] <renesis> the wire is worth money
[23:34:33] <renesis> if they just sold it to scrappers
[23:34:47] <_methods> yeah next time i'm out there i gotta stop at that place
[23:36:06] <_methods> if nothing else for the wire
[23:36:20] <renesis> http://apexelectronic.com/bulk-wire
[23:36:21] <_methods> are their prices even good on the wire though?
[23:36:44] <renesis> well its better than new for sure
[23:37:08] <renesis> would just call and ask ^
[23:37:19] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[23:37:25] <zeeshan|2> im almost tempted to use extension cord
[23:37:28] <zeeshan|2> for this iec plugs.
[23:37:28] <renesis> i wonder if they just list the stuff thta is easy for them to get to
[23:37:42] <renesis> is it standard 10A iec?
[23:37:46] <zeeshan|2> no
[23:37:46] <zeeshan|2> 15A
[23:37:56] <zeeshan|2> need 14awg
[23:37:57] <renesis> oh the bit stupid blocky ones
[23:38:02] <renesis> *big
[23:38:12] <zeeshan|2> yea man everytime i think about it
[23:38:13] <zeeshan|2> i get pissed
[23:38:17] <zeeshan|2> its lame as shit
[23:38:28] <renesis> would just order a cable and cut off the edison plug end
[23:38:47] <zeeshan|2> had a hard time finding 14awg
[23:38:51] <zeeshan|2> theyre all shitty 16awg
[23:38:55] <renesis> if you dont like the outer jacket cut it all off
[23:39:41] <zeeshan|2> http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/contractor-grade-power-block-cords-14-3-0522317p.html#.VIt8uXurGvE
[23:39:47] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking buying that
[23:39:48] <zeeshan|2> and cutting it up
[23:39:49] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:39:49] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Heavy-Duty-IEC-320-C19-P034-010/dp/B0012EK2RE
[23:39:52] <renesis> ?
[23:39:58] <zeeshan|2> no
[23:40:06] <zeeshan|2> thats not the style
[23:40:11] <zeeshan|2> the style is same as pc.
[23:40:16] <renesis> uh
[23:40:21] <zeeshan|2> the rating on the plug is 115vac 15a
[23:40:22] <renesis> heh, those are 10A connectors
[23:40:23] <zeeshan|2> or 240vac 10a
[23:40:30] <zeeshan|2> thats what it physically says on the connector
[23:40:33] <zeeshan|2> makes no sense to me.
[23:40:42] <renesis> thats not standard
[23:41:14] <zeeshan|2> im gonna try home depot again
[23:41:22] <zeeshan|2> i really hope i can find a pvc jacket 3 conductor cable
[23:41:26] <zeeshan|2> this shit is driving me insane!!
[23:41:30] <renesis> look for speaker cables
[23:41:48] <zeeshan|2> speaker power supply?
[23:41:53] <renesis> iec cables for powered speakers and rack amplifiers are usually 12 or 14 awg
[23:41:56] <renesis> yeah
[23:43:23] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/SF-Cable-10ft-Universal-Power/dp/B0064SZ5U2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1418427774&sr=1-1&keywords=%2214+awg%22+iec+cable
[23:43:53] <zeeshan|2> i looked for some
[23:44:00] <zeeshan|2> theyre findable in straight con
[23:44:05] <zeeshan|2> but not down angle connector
[23:44:10] <zeeshan|2> i found 1 supplier for it
[23:44:15] <zeeshan|2> they said 6 week lead time
[23:44:15] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:44:16] <renesis> you need RA?
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[23:44:23] <zeeshan|2> down angle
[23:44:28] <zeeshan|2> right angle is also okay to find
[23:44:31] <zeeshan|2> i think some plasma tv's use it
[23:44:40] <renesis> its not uncommon
[23:44:55] <renesis> so you mounted you shit in a corner or something
[23:45:44] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16006673692/in/photostream/
[23:45:46] <zeeshan|2> you can see there
[23:45:50] <zeeshan|2> 2 of the connectors are straight
[23:45:52] <zeeshan|2> cause ther eis space
[23:45:56] <zeeshan|2> but the vfd blocks 2 of em
[23:46:00] <zeeshan|2> so i gotta use down angle there
[23:46:23] <renesis> dunno what im looking at
[23:46:27] <renesis> whats the iec for
[23:46:29] <zeeshan|2> on the right
[23:46:32] <zeeshan|2> the servo drives
[23:46:33] <zeeshan|2> bottom right
[23:47:02] <renesis> why wont RA work
[23:47:08] <zeeshan|2> it will
[23:47:11] <zeeshan|2> just points the wire inthe wrong direction
[23:47:15] <zeeshan|2> remember i already have the connectors
[23:47:16] <zeeshan|2> i just need wire
[23:47:35] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-14AWG-Conductor-Connector-Socket/dp/B005E2XT66/
[23:47:36] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15516339999/
[23:47:38] <zeeshan|2> you can see the plug there
[23:48:09] <renesis> ra will work fine
[23:48:26] <zeeshan|2> im gonna see if digikey carries that cord
[23:48:29] <zeeshan|2> just the wire
[23:48:36] <renesis> ?
[23:48:43] <zeeshan|2> ?
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[23:49:05] <renesis> digikey is an expensive place to buy iec cables
[23:49:37] <renesis> and yeah i dont like those iec plug shells, the 10A or 15A ones
[23:50:04] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16005715661/
[23:50:06] <zeeshan|2> here you can see the plugs
[23:50:11] <renesis> i would just buy iec cable and strip off the jacket for the overmolded plug
[23:50:38] <renesis> RA looks like itll work better, honestly
[23:50:49] <renesis> those kind of run them into each other
[23:51:07] <zeeshan|2> okay fak it
[23:51:08] <zeeshan|2> ill just wait
[23:51:11] <zeeshan|2> and buy that cable you posted
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[23:51:55] <renesis> you can cut jacket off like 1" in and heatshrink, itll look clean enough
[23:52:06] <renesis> decent strain relief
[23:52:37] <renesis> ive used those iec housings, they work, never really had issues with them, but i dont like them
[23:53:52] <renesis> stranded wire plus screw clamps in a cheap feeling housing with non functional strain relief just feels like bad voodo
[23:54:02] <renesis> maybe if you potted them with hot glue
[23:55:47] <zeeshan|2> sweet
[23:55:49] <zeeshan|2> those 6feet will work
[23:55:52] <zeeshan|2> i need 5.25 feet
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[23:56:14] <renesis> heh
[23:56:23] <renesis> consider getting 10ft?
[23:56:28] <zeeshan|2> no
[23:56:30] <zeeshan|2> wanna be cheap
[23:56:31] <zeeshan|2> :D
[23:56:40] <renesis> the length might include the connector youre cutting off, and maybe stripping fuckups
[23:56:43] <renesis> ok
[23:57:31] <zeeshan|2> okay it is right angle that i need
[23:57:34] <zeeshan|2> not left angle
[23:57:40] <renesis> haha
[23:57:47] <zeeshan|2> that would be a big annoynace too
[23:57:47] <renesis> i dont think left angle is a thing
[23:57:47] <zeeshan|2> haha
[23:57:49] <renesis> like
[23:58:05] <renesis> because they dont have an op down orientation really
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[23:58:31] <renesis> just means 90 degrees, i think they come both ways labeled 'right'
[23:58:59] <renesis> eath pin is usually on the bottom but not always
[23:59:16] <renesis> and sometimes it makes the fuse box lettering upside down heheh
[23:59:43] <zeeshan|2> erm
[23:59:46] <zeeshan|2> looks like monoprice is in china
[23:59:58] <renesis> kinda