#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-12-06

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[00:16:28] <Jymm> andypugh: I'd contact Atmel engineers to see what they think.
[00:17:24] <Tom_itx> ask abcminiuser in #avr, he used to work for atmel
[00:17:42] <Tom_itx> aussie time...
[00:17:51] <andypugh> It will be very application-specific.
[00:18:35] <andypugh> You need to set up the translation table for every 30, or every 30/256 for byte 2
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[00:21:40] <s1dev> if I were to be looking into aquiring a mill with the intent of CNCing it for under ~$1800 (CNC inclusive) where would you guys suggest starting?
[00:22:03] <s1dev> I'm fine with getting an old bridgeport or something, but ideally, this would be short and sweet
[00:23:14] <s1dev> I have a set of steppers and controllers
[00:23:26] <andypugh> Honestly? I would suggest starting with a doubled budget
[00:24:30] <andypugh> Without a doubt you can do it for the budget you have. And it will work, and you will learn a lot. And then there is a _very_ good chance you will do it all over again
[00:24:47] <Tom_itx> andypugh, link to your project?
[00:25:20] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Which one? My despicable £1000 mill conversion or the nice £2000 one?
[00:25:24] <PetefromTn_> if you already have steppers and controllers then I would say your choice of machine will be limited based on the power output and sizes of those motors
[00:25:28] <Tom_itx> the clock thinkg
[00:25:42] <s1dev> PetefromTn_: they're 1600oz-in NEMA 34s
[00:26:08] <andypugh> Tom_itx: No write-up yet, just one Youtube video: http://youtu.be/LwpqX9QK1zU
[00:26:09] <PetefromTn_> those are pretty large motors so a used bridgeport might work well
[00:26:35] <PetefromTn_> you could also look into a used RF45 style machine similar to the one I converted.
[00:27:10] <PetefromTn_> you will be seeing some slow rapids with those steppers most likely but they will be certainly strong enough to move the axes and hold position.
[00:27:19] <andypugh> Bridgeport themselves built CNC mills with NEMA 34 steppers. I don’t think I have heard many people claiming that they worked well.
[00:30:10] <andypugh> The 750W servos on my very-sub-Bridgeport mill seem about right: http://youtu.be/X0celdfZmkA I don’t think steppers would have worked.
[00:30:17] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Had you seen this? http://liquidpiston.com/technology/how-it-works/ It's an interesting twist on the wankel.
[00:30:31] <Tom_itx> andypugh, you should join avr
[00:31:00] <andypugh> Tom_itx: [Hobies GT Enough]
[00:31:10] <Tom_itx> <Lambda_Aurigae> kinda like copiers do for writing to eeprom in toner cartridge chips.
[00:32:49] <FinboySlick> (It's been around a while, just learned about it this week)
[00:33:09] <PetefromTn_> what does Hobies GT enough mean?
[00:33:20] <andypugh> I missed out a “b”
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[00:34:17] <Tom_itx> zlog
[00:34:17] <zlog> Tom_itx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2014-12-05.html
[00:34:24] <PetefromTn_> does TKamsker ever venture in here?
[00:34:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> andypugh, croutons and salsatations...or something like that.
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[00:37:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> andypugh, so, how much eeprom do you have available to work with on your device?
[00:38:13] <andypugh> 1k x 100,000 writes
[00:38:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> and, looking at one tick every 30 seconds, 60 minutes per hour, 24 hours? or just 12 hours?
[00:39:24] <andypugh> One tick every 30 seconds
[00:39:50] <andypugh> I think I have an 87-year solution. That will do.
[00:39:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok.
[00:40:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> I would use a walking 1 inside 180 bytes or multiples thereof to extend it.
[00:41:14] <andypugh> Basically the 2 MSB of the timestamp always live at 0 and 1, and then the other two bytes are indexed by them into variable-sized spaces in the other 1022 bytes.
[00:41:54] <andypugh> (107 bytes of Byte 1 and 914 bytes of Byte0 is optimal for my specific application)
[00:41:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> are you trying to store an entire date/timestamp or just a 12 hour timestamp?
[00:42:17] <andypugh> It helps that 30 into 256 does not go.
[00:42:59] <andypugh> I am storing an entire date-time, bit that is only 2 bytes (total) more than the alternative
[00:44:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> so write the 2 bytes and each time you write it, just write it to the next two bytes and erase the previous two...for a simple way of doing it.
[00:44:25] <andypugh> I can store the 2 MSBs of the day/date for free
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[00:45:26] <andypugh> Lambda_Aurigae: Did you read the Arduino Forum discussion? I am fairly happy that my solution is better than what you suggest, as is it trivial to find the last data
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[00:46:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> I did not read anything from arduino forums. sorry. just had a limited amount of data tossed at me in #avr. There are ways of making it much more write efficient for making it last longer...yours works well.
[00:46:49] <andypugh> I am using the fact that the 2 x MSB of the day/date monotonically increase to index into the memory spaces assigned to the LSBs
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[00:47:50] <andypugh> Lambda_Aurigae: Ah sorry, I took you for someone from here with a fun new name.
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[00:48:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> just an idea...to make it so you have absolutely no issue with overwrite repetitions...ever consider using nvsram?
[00:49:05] <andypugh> Lambda_Aurigae: This is the discussion on the Arduino forum: http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=283661.msg1989990#new
[00:49:12] <s1dev> PetefromTn_: if I could find a CNC bp that just needed new electronics, how much do you think I would be spending on the new electronics?
[00:49:37] <Tom_itx> 1k
[00:49:45] <PetefromTn_> jeez man that is difficult to say
[00:49:56] <andypugh> Lambda_Aurigae: No. Partly because I am fairly sure that this is the first time I have heard of NVSRAM :-(
[00:49:59] <PetefromTn_> the spindle drive alone could cost 1k
[00:50:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh...let me introduce you to something wonderful.
[00:50:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> non volatile static ram...sram with built in 10 year lithium battery backup...all on a chip.
[00:50:39] <Tom_itx> Lambda_Aurigae, do they make serial read write versions?
[00:50:39] <PetefromTn_> building a CNC machine worth having is NOT a cheap thing unless it is purely for a hobby and the performance of the thing after it is complete is not a big deal.
[00:50:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> Tom_itx, yup...
[00:50:53] <Tom_itx> even better..
[00:51:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmmm...maxim is only parallel...but microchip makes serial nvsram
[00:51:16] <PetefromTn_> as much as I wish it was not true Andypugh's suggestion of doubling the cost you spec'd is probably about right.
[00:51:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> just have to use an external battery for the microchip ones.
[00:51:28] <andypugh> Lambda_Aurigae: To be frank I think my scheme will squeeze about 90 years out of the normal 1k Atmega328 EEPROM. I think that other elements will fail first.
[00:51:29] <PetefromTn_> since you already have the motors and drives that is a considerable savings
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[00:51:49] <PetefromTn_> all you should need then is a computer, monitor, and spindle drive
[00:51:49] <s1dev> I looked back at the steppers, they're 1200 oz-in
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[00:52:01] <PetefromTn_> that is actually better honestly
[00:52:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> andypugh, then no worries....I just stopped in because Tom_itx thought you were looking for alternatives.
[00:52:08] <s1dev> I could probably scrounge up the computer and monitor
[00:52:12] <s1dev> for free
[00:52:20] <PetefromTn_> I would recommend getting the mesanet cards
[00:52:26] <PetefromTn_> to control the whole system
[00:52:39] <PetefromTn_> almost infinitely expandable and quality stuff
[00:53:06] <andypugh> Lambda_Aurigae: Well, I think that the actual question that brought you here was a more advanced one on optimised byte encoding schemes for EEPROM storage.
[00:53:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh.
[00:53:21] <PetefromTn_> if you get the PCI cards you can get a lot faster step rate with your steppers apparently
[00:53:52] <PetefromTn_> personally if you CAN find a nice clean used CNC bridgport
[00:54:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> seems your scheme will work well then. it is just a matter of doing some math and a little pointer work to where things go which seems you have done already.
[00:54:06] <PetefromTn_> that would be much better than trying to retrofit a manual machine with ballscrews etc.
[00:54:26] <PetefromTn_> there is considerable cost and time/complexity in adapting ballscrews to a manual machine believe me.
[00:54:44] <PetefromTn_> you are FAR better off if you can start with a machine that was born a CNC
[00:54:56] <andypugh> If it is true that setting all bits to 1 has a cost, but setting any one bit to 0 is free, then a variant on Gray-code (where only one bit changes at a time) seems optimal for a counter. But you need to “reset” to nearly all ones every now and again
[00:55:22] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Unless you want a machine smaller than any commercial CNC
[00:55:23] <ssi> you can get kits for retrofitting bridgeports
[00:55:24] <s1dev> PetefromTn_: oh, I already know of one, I just need to see if it's still for sale
[00:55:25] <PetefromTn_> the good news is that there are MANY MANY decent used CNC knee mills out there that you can buy for really cheap typically
[00:55:27] <ssi> but you may not like the price
[00:55:56] <ssi> for as much if not less money, you can buy a cnc bridige and retrofit the control and have a better machines with more suitable design
[00:55:58] <s1dev> it would probably be servos, right?
[00:55:59] <PetefromTn_> well he did mention he was looking into a used bridgeport is the only reason I am speaking in this manner
[00:56:42] <andypugh> Lambda_Aurigae: I think I have an encoding that is good for a counter, but that is not optimal for something that increases by 30 every time. Nor for the next byte up that increases by 256/30
[00:56:59] <PetefromTn_> if you can find a nice used CNC knee mill and retrofit the control you will probably be much happier with the end result.
[00:57:12] <PetefromTn_> Don't get hooked on the bridgeport name either
[00:57:16] <ssi> agreed
[00:57:26] <PetefromTn_> there are many nice knee mills out there from many manufacturers
[00:57:27] <ssi> I think I might take a stab at grinding my magchuck tonight
[00:57:33] <andypugh> I am wondering if it is possible to derive an optimised encoding for any arbitray but fixed increment.
[00:57:54] <s1dev> alright, I'll see if that CNC bridgeport is still for sale and if so for how much
[00:57:59] <s1dev> what would be a good price?
[00:58:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> andypugh, that will take doing "MATHS!" but, I bet there is an algorithm out there somewhere for it...or should be.
[00:58:08] <PetefromTn_> don't be afraid to low ball the crap out of them either
[00:58:13] <andypugh> If you have room for a BP you won’t regret it
[00:58:28] <ssi> s1dev: do you have a manual mill already?
[00:58:36] <andypugh> Better yet, a Deckel
[00:58:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have room for a bridgeport...but would have to reinforce the hell out of my garage floor first.
[00:58:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> and no way I could get the cost of one past the wifey.
[00:58:53] <ssi> eep I wouldn't want to have to put big machines on a wood joist floor
[00:58:54] <andypugh> I actually lust after a Huron
[00:59:14] <ssi> andypugh: last week I bought a southbend heavy 10, and it's turned out to be a hell of a nice lathe
[00:59:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> my workshop main area has an old wood floor that used to support dumptrucks but nowadays has lots of soft spots.
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[00:59:58] <andypugh> There was a lovely Huron outside work under a tarp for weeks. But it physically would not fit in the garage, even if I evicicted everything else
[01:00:10] <PetefromTn_> from what I have seen USUALLY even a beat up worn out american or european made machine is way more accurate, better built, and heavier duty then even the best chinese machines.
[01:00:26] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Absolutely
[01:00:49] <Tom_itx> even moreso the older ones
[01:00:58] <andypugh> ssi: Yes, old iron is simply better
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[01:01:36] <PetefromTn_> I ran a Tree knee mill at the last shop occasionally and that was a fine little mill. VERY stout
[01:01:48] <ssi> andypugh: even as old iron goes... this sb I bought has clean, bright, almost nick free ways, taper attachment, collet inserts, came with two nice buck 6 jaw set-trus
[01:01:51] <ssi> and it runs like a top
[01:01:59] <ssi> it was grimy as hell, but I cleaned it up and there was a REALLY nice lathe underneath :D
[01:02:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> well, laters all...it's been fun.
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[01:02:42] <PetefromTn_> you probably got enough value just in the tooling and chucks you received to justify the price you paid for the whole machine.
[01:02:59] <ssi> yep!
[01:03:14] <ssi> there were a couple solid carbide 1/2" endmills in the tooling bin too
[01:03:15] <ssi> haha
[01:03:18] <PetefromTn_> Awhile back I bought a used knee mill for like $1k
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[01:03:28] <PetefromTn_> it came with a small box of cutters.
[01:03:38] <andypugh> Nice old US iron, but the listing seems to have been pulled: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-Lathe-Rivett-608-With-Collets-Chucks-And-Gears-/261687965497?ssPageName=ADME%3ASS%3ASS%3AGB%3A1120&nma=true&si=PQpYFLIAvsBr4Fk6DPdQbZ4pUy4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
[01:03:56] <PetefromTn_> they were ALL high quality tooling and if you added up the new cost of just the endmills it would have paid for the mill.
[01:04:10] <PetefromTn_> I also got a little rotab and vise with it.
[01:04:19] <PetefromTn_> sweet deal
[01:04:27] <s1dev> ssi: no, I do have a lathe however (in need of a tailstock sort of)
[01:04:31] <PetefromTn_> I sold it for $1800 just the machine alone
[01:04:46] <s1dev> It's a logan 10" that I got with the turret
[01:05:06] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: The rotab the one you're trying to make a lathe toolchanger with?
[01:05:14] <ssi> love that
[01:05:17] <PetefromTn_> no that was awhile ago
[01:05:34] <PetefromTn_> at the time I had a Yuasa Super Accra dex 10" indexer
[01:05:45] <PetefromTn_> so I did not need the rotab and traded it for cash
[01:06:04] <PetefromTn_> then like a jackhole I sold the Yuasa once the CNC mill was running
[01:06:13] <PetefromTn_> don't know what the hell I was thinking
[01:06:21] <ssi> heheh
[01:06:27] <ssi> that's why i rarely get rid of anything
[01:06:33] <PetefromTn_> but yeah I would consider making a fourth axis into a toolchanger
[01:06:51] <ssi> I moved my new airplane over to the hangar tonight :D
[01:06:52] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4IlPG2IYAEE_5e.jpg:large
[01:06:55] <PetefromTn_> there are several videos on youtube depicting that and it seems to work reasonably well.
[01:07:02] <ssi> both fit easily in there
[01:07:05] <ssi> even with all my moving bullshit
[01:07:19] <PetefromTn_> nice
[01:07:28] <PetefromTn_> you got it bad with those planes man...hehe
[01:07:37] <ssi> I've got it bad with all sorts of crap
[01:07:44] <ssi> I want to buy an OD/ID grinder now
[01:07:46] <PetefromTn_> true enough
[01:07:55] <PetefromTn_> cylindrical grinder
[01:08:02] <ssi> ya
[01:08:05] <andypugh> He should have given it a bit of a polish. Prettiest lathe ever made, and possibly the most expensive of their time. The Bugatti of Lathes. There are other conteders for the “Rolls Royce” of lathes. The Bugatti of Lathes is made exquisitely and carefully by the very best machinists and mechanics and fitters to a pitch of perfection depsite the fact that the underlying design is daft. The Rolls Royce of lathes is a
[01:08:05] <andypugh> fundamentally sound design made out of the best materials to exacting quality such that every part works properly when assembled.
[01:08:24] <ssi> andypugh: the rivetts really are nice
[01:08:44] <ssi> andypugh: I'm trying to learn the fine art of toolmaking now :D
[01:08:59] <PetefromTn_> that looks like a neat little lathe
[01:09:00] <ssi> I bought a heat treat oven this week, and I'm working on some inspection blocks
[01:09:26] <PetefromTn_> I am going to have to get another manual lathe at some point
[01:09:37] <ssi> yeah I'm really glad I did
[01:09:39] <PetefromTn_> possibly even before the CNC lathe comes online
[01:09:40] <ssi> the SB is a joy to run
[01:09:44] <andypugh> I would say that Rivett is Bugatti and Dean Smith And Grace / Monarch can share “Rolls Royce”
[01:10:13] <PetefromTn_> Personally I would rather have a Bugatti, you can keep the Rolls Royce's heh
[01:10:22] <ssi> I think I'd rather have a monarch
[01:10:26] <ssi> although the rivett is prettier :)
[01:10:41] <PetefromTn_> I was referring to the automobiles
[01:10:44] <ssi> I know
[01:10:49] <andypugh> I’d rather have a DSG, but there are no small one
[01:10:56] <PetefromTn_> I would rather have the monarch over almost ANY manual lathe
[01:11:17] <ssi> monarch has a downside
[01:11:21] <ssi> which is very small spindle bores
[01:11:30] <ssi> one of the things I love about the sb is the 1.4" spindle bore
[01:11:31] <PetefromTn_> I would buy it just so I can sit there and ogle it
[01:11:31] <andypugh> I want to CNC-convert my Rivett :-)
[01:11:38] <ssi> andypugh: that'd be a travesty ;)
[01:11:47] <andypugh> Not if I did it “Right”
[01:11:51] <ssi> heheh
[01:12:32] <FinboySlick> Steampunk style servos!
[01:12:38] <andypugh> If you look at the Rivett Taper Turning attachment that could quite easily be a 2-axis CNC attachment.
[01:12:39] <ssi> heheh
[01:12:52] <PetefromTn_> my wife and my daughters are making a couple light up christmas trees from some garden tomato cages and light strands right now...
[01:12:56] <ssi> man I never cared about taper attachments, but my sb has one, and I'm REALLY glad it does
[01:12:59] <ssi> so useful
[01:13:04] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Do you know where my Rivett lives?
[01:13:13] * Tom_itx does
[01:13:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah isn't it in your living room?
[01:13:29] <ssi> kitchen table?
[01:13:46] <Tom_itx> it has it's own handcrafted cabinet it sits on
[01:13:53] <PetefromTn_> andypugh Did you see my Edge lit LED sign I made today?
[01:14:09] <andypugh> Living room it is: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PN4t25Nb2xIBt0FILfNfJNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[01:14:34] <ssi> needs moar shiny :)
[01:14:35] <PetefromTn_> it's a ting o' beauty
[01:14:36] <andypugh> It seems a _total_ surprise to me that I am single :-)
[01:14:41] <ssi> hehehe
[01:15:00] <FinboySlick> andypugh: It's because you can't drag that thing over when you go to meet ladies.
[01:15:09] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Link?
[01:15:19] <Tom_itx> andypugh, you'd have to get alot more room if there were two like you
[01:15:25] <ssi> andypugh: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3omW3vIEAA7_6Z.jpg:large
[01:15:44] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/06RXzPR.jpg
[01:15:53] <ssi> Tom_itx: if women like andy existed in reasonable supply, the world would be a very different place
[01:16:29] <FinboySlick> ssi: I always found the pin hole placements on the gearbox of those made it look like someone just took a hand drill to the side of the case.
[01:16:39] <ssi> haha yeah
[01:16:44] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/fA24K4N.jpg
[01:16:45] <andypugh> With a much reduced population level problem, we would all be too busy to breed.
[01:16:58] <ssi> andypugh: sounds like a good problem to have!
[01:17:28] <PetefromTn_> I need to design a base to house the LED lights and boxes
[01:17:45] <andypugh> ssi: That’s a properly nice lathe. Do you have the tailstock?
[01:17:47] <PetefromTn_> was thinking like a wedding cake step thing or something
[01:17:55] <ssi> andypugh: I do!
[01:18:20] <ssi> and a micrometer carriage stop for it
[01:18:44] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: You are good at making things that look nice.
[01:18:45] <ssi> three chucks, two 5C adapters, handwheel closer, set of hardinge collets, QCTP with a handful of holders, and the proverbial partridge
[01:18:58] <PetefromTn_> thanks man I try LOL
[01:19:10] <PetefromTn_> the design is not my own tho
[01:19:37] <FinboySlick> Noob question here. Good machines apparently are cast iron. Is there a specific property of cast iron that helps (say with vibration) or would the same shapes be even better in steel?
[01:19:38] <andypugh> Really, you are. I am good at making things that work, but they have no style.
[01:19:44] <PetefromTn_> it is an Alice in Chains design that I kinda traced over in 2d cad and made more....straight
[01:20:07] <PetefromTn_> the original design looks a lot more hand drawn
[01:20:20] <PetefromTn_> which is nice but it is a beotch to trace over accurately
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[01:20:39] <PetefromTn_> I showed it to my wife when she got home from work and she was VERY pleased LOL.
[01:20:48] <pfred1> three down, one to go! Yeah!
[01:20:56] <PetefromTn_> she said she can't wait to see it all lit up.
[01:21:04] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: You a fan of Alice in Chains?
[01:21:05] <PetefromTn_> but thanks for the kind words andy
[01:21:08] <pfred1> a couple shots and I can be all lit up
[01:21:11] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Steel is stiffer than iron, (higher Young’s modulus) so on paper looks better. But iron has more hysteresis, so damps better. An optimal design would probably mix the materials.
[01:21:12] <PetefromTn_> hell yeah!
[01:21:39] <PetefromTn_> we saw them live a couple months ago in Cherokee NC
[01:21:53] <PetefromTn_> I am actually wearing the concert Tee shirt as we speak LOL
[01:22:13] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: You might dig this omage/cover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh2giMlcqls
[01:22:15] <pfred1> andypugh I am making some heavy brackets out of angle iron, which is really steel
[01:22:29] <FinboySlick> All acoustic, no drums, just an accoustic base and guitar.
[01:22:52] <FinboySlick> :s/base/bass/
[01:23:05] <pfred1> all of your bass are belong to us
[01:23:54] <PetefromTn_> FinboySlick Sorry man but that was kinda painful
[01:24:17] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Hehe, it's not quite the same style, I'll grant you.
[01:24:25] <PetefromTn_> my wife who is a HUGE fan was listening and she was like...VOMIT!
[01:24:34] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[01:24:56] <pfred1> you can almost make out the mill mark Bethlehem USA on the right hand bracket http://i.imgur.com/5sWYA7x.jpg
[01:24:58] <FinboySlick> Well, you have to take into account that it's Les Claypool there. he makes *everything* weird.
[01:25:24] <FinboySlick> Starting with himself.
[01:25:32] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: An example: My RobotWars robot: http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110725161653/robotwars/images/d/da/SMIDSY_today.jpg It was very effective. The robot I wish I had built: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Razer_side-on_view.jpg That just has so much more elan.
[01:25:34] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAqZb52sgpU Aaahh MUCH BETTER
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[01:26:16] <PetefromTn_> Damn that second robot looks bad ass!!
[01:26:24] <andypugh> Exactly
[01:26:25] <PetefromTn_> not that your first one was not cool
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[01:26:44] <PetefromTn_> honestly from what I understand of those things a low flat robot is kinda unstoppable
[01:27:16] <PetefromTn_> FinboySlick I am a big fan of Jar of Flies stuff
[01:27:34] <PetefromTn_> it was kinda sorta smoother than some of their stuff
[01:27:37] * LeelooMinai liked Dirt the most
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[01:28:23] <PetefromTn_> LeelooMinai My wife likes that one too.
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[01:28:38] <PetefromTn_> She has like EVERY ALBUM they ever made and some they didn't LOL
[01:28:48] <pfred1> I thought the wedges turned out to be the best battlebot design?
[01:28:53] <andypugh> Razer was actually top-class, but we tag-teamed a lot with Sump Thing, which was technically awful, but looked so good. (I have not found a good picture).
[01:29:20] <LeelooMinai> I mostly like a bit different kind of music, but I had some exceptions and Alice in Chain was one of them:)
[01:29:32] <PetefromTn_> yeah man Connor is a robot junkie too hehe
[01:29:38] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Did they have weight advantages for walkers then too?
[01:29:52] <PetefromTn_> LeelooMinai Agreed I am quite the same
[01:29:53] <FinboySlick> I was always disappointed that we never saw any good walkers.
[01:29:57] <LeelooMinai> Are those robot wars still going? I remember long time ago I used to watch them on Discovery channel
[01:30:17] <andypugh> Sump thing used normal car starter solenoids. And 4 motors. One for left, one for right, one for left-reverse, one for right-reverse. Almost uncontrollable, but it _looked_ so dangerous
[01:30:19] <FinboySlick> LeelooMinai: There are still a few competitions in the US as far as I know.
[01:30:20] <PetefromTn_> most of the music I listen to is rather smooth and moody
[01:30:23] <pfred1> FinboySlick there is no advantage to a walker in the combat arena
[01:30:24] <LeelooMinai> I imagine nowadays they would be much more advanced
[01:30:40] <pfred1> it is smooth so you might as well go with wheels
[01:31:22] <andypugh> The whole Robot Wars thing dissolved in copyright argumnents.
[01:31:28] <FinboySlick> pfred1: Some competitions used to give twice the allowed weight to walkers.
[01:31:38] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_GPxe91hWE love this one..
[01:31:41] <LeelooMinai> I listen to pretty scary and not moody stuff like this:) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM8WjgRA6o8
[01:32:06] <LeelooMinai> I bet in Japan they have a lot of robot wars
[01:32:07] <pfred1> andypugh well i imagine it also evolved into predictibility too
[01:32:08] <FinboySlick> pfred1: So if you were in the 200lbs category, you could compete with a 400lbs walker.
[01:32:10] <andypugh> It’s a shame, as I am sure that everything would now be so much more advanced.
[01:32:34] <andypugh> pfred1: No, I don’t think so.
[01:33:10] <FinboySlick> LeelooMinai: It's japan, they'd probably have tentacle robots playing pranks.
[01:33:31] <FinboySlick> (if it's on japanese TV anyway)
[01:34:27] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: It was probably my favorite from that album too.
[01:34:53] <andypugh> When we were active we had 2 PCBs in the robot that we didn’t understand, and one spare. And we knew that the supplier was out of stock. It converted Radio-control signals to motor control voltage. Custom PCB, closed-source PIC. That would now be an Arduino. And if it got trashed, we wuld have a bag full. And if they ran out, we would go to Maplin….
[01:35:01] <PetefromTn_> yeah thats a kickass song perfectly smooth yet gritty
[01:35:43] <XXCoder> soylent is also smooth yet gritty lol
[01:35:57] <pfred1> soylent green is people!
[01:36:18] <XXCoder> thankfully I dont drinjk green soylent. only belge one
[01:37:04] <PetefromTn_> LeelooMinai That is actually not bad..
[01:37:20] <XXCoder> hey LeelooMinai any update on router table
[01:37:41] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_: They also have this great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRbnY8EK4Ew
[01:37:45] <andypugh> RobotWars with BBB and openCV on board? There was a class for autonomous robots, but nobody could afford to build one and lose. Now it would be a painful, but manageable £500
[01:37:52] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBB2OS4IoTs
[01:38:17] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder: Well, had to resign from that 45 surface plate as shipping was $100:p
[01:38:28] <LeelooMinai> $45*
[01:38:31] <XXCoder> painfuk
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[01:38:42] <pfred1> sometimes i listen to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So6Y4_F9bXU&feature=player_detailpage#t=304
[01:38:52] <LeelooMinai> So in the meantime I do some FPGA programming and wait for more money
[01:39:05] <XXCoder> decided not to do gritate one?
[01:39:09] <PetefromTn_> pfred1 I LOVE BLADE RUNNER!!
[01:39:20] <PetefromTn_> amazing soundtrack
[01:39:21] <pfred1> PetefromTn_ youtubedl it
[01:39:35] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Out of interest, what do you think of http://youtu.be/Js3y6ouy1rQ ?
[01:39:37] <LeelooMinai> I still have the plan to buy 18 by 24" surface plate and use that as the base for table mould
[01:39:59] <Connor> Someone say robots ?
[01:40:21] <PetefromTn_> andypugh Hang on man I am listening to something else
[01:42:10] <andypugh> Hi Connor: Saying how much better they would be now rather than then
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[01:42:39] <pfred1> andypugh Handel is nice i like Vivaldi too
[01:42:52] <PetefromTn_> andypugh Oh yeah Handel, I have messiah on disk. I can enjoy that kind of music occasionally
[01:43:35] <Connor> andypugh: Yea.. I wasn't much into combots that much.. I Was into Mech Warefar.
[01:43:48] <andypugh> What I can’t figure out is why Sarabamde makes me cry. it’s an instrumental. What is it about music that drives our emotions?
[01:43:49] <Connor> and other kinds of bots.. Autonomous types..
[01:44:16] <pfred1> they need to do a real robot combat series with projectile weapons in a battle zone
[01:44:31] <PetefromTn_> pfred1 I have several vangelis albums that guy is amazing
[01:44:57] <FinboySlick> I'm from the Nintendo generation so I like chiptune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY6xrEFh7WQ It's a bit weird at first but if you need to perk up, it's great.
[01:45:08] <pfred1> PetefromTn_ i like electronic I like Cabaret Voltaire
[01:45:09] <PetefromTn_> most electronic musicians refer to him as the master
[01:45:10] <Connor> pfred1: Mech Warfare was humanoid and quads with Airsoft BB guns. :)
[01:45:21] <pfred1> Connor that would be cool
[01:45:41] <pfred1> they need like body targets to score hits
[01:45:57] <PetefromTn_> never heard that gotta check it out
[01:46:01] <PetefromTn_> is it similar
[01:46:08] <pfred1> cabaret voltaire?
[01:46:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[01:46:25] <pfred1> hmm no not really try red mecca it is their most accessible
[01:46:30] <Connor> pfred1: They do. We had target plates on them. :)
[01:46:44] <pfred1> Connor yeah targets that register hits would be the way to go
[01:46:48] <andypugh> pfred1: That would suffer from the same problems as the RobotWars series. Expensive to build for no reward. It was a real shocjk to the TV types, who were used to people who desperately wanted to be on TV, to be faced with hundreds of chaps who wanted to show what they could do, but for who being on TV was a price to be paid, not the reward.
[01:47:30] <pfred1> andypugh well then it would need to be broken down into teams sort of like racing with the mechanics and the drivers
[01:47:53] <unfy> throwing $20 at a coworker for a tyan board for linuxcnc machine :D
[01:48:32] <pfred1> unfy I run on a PC I got at a thrift store for $5
[01:48:43] <pfred1> it had popped RAM modules that I reseated
[01:48:54] <pfred1> tough fix that was!
[01:50:03] <FinboySlick> unfy: Tyan boards are pretty solid but arn't they full of management features that cause unavoidable interrupts?
[01:50:40] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: how much would that surface be
[01:50:41] <pfred1> how are the atom boards these days? I've heard some of the newer ones have some Linux compatibility issues
[01:50:58] <unfy> he said he ran latency test for 5-6min, had < 10k jitters
[01:51:15] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder: Depends - some local guy has one for $75 apparently
[01:51:19] <pfred1> I had an AMD PC that when it worked had some really nice latency
[01:51:24] <XXCoder> not bad
[01:51:25] <unfy> well, not just the board, entire system
[01:51:35] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder: New are around $150, $200
[01:51:47] <pfred1> but the video adapter chip lifted off that board last winter and it is kind of messed up now
[01:52:02] <LeelooMinai> The prices tend to skyrocket with size:)
[01:52:04] <FinboySlick> pfred1: I think your biggest problem would be the ones with proprietary video chips. Intel has a few rebranded PowerVR chips that are tough to get working properly under linux.
[01:52:08] <LeelooMinai> And weight too...
[01:52:12] <PetefromTn_> http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4763255442.html
[01:52:25] <XXCoder> yeah the larger harder it is to ensure its all around this surface area. low tol
[01:52:27] <pfred1> FinboySlick that was what i heard some of the video on the newer atoms is unsupported
[01:52:51] <PetefromTn_> I need that hehe
[01:52:54] <XXCoder> or is it high tol? not sure how to use it. low tol = very accurate needed or other way?
[01:53:00] <andypugh> FinboySlick: There was some genuinely good Chiptune at EMFCamp. Played by chaps with cheap synths duct-taped to Guitar-Hero guitars.
[01:53:16] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt5Ohk3bDBI
[01:53:52] <LeelooMinai> I think there are two grades: A and B, A is better tolerance, but may be thinner, and B is thicker, slightly less rolerance though. A for delicate inspection, B for daily work.
[01:54:09] <XXCoder> so less tolence = rougher
[01:54:10] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I hear the instrument of choice for many artists is first generation Gameboys.
[01:54:13] <Connor> PetefromTn_: http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4792148735.html
[01:54:33] <PetefromTn_> LOL yeah I know
[01:54:39] <PetefromTn_> wish I had $300.00
[01:54:50] <LeelooMinai> Some local guys have pretty hard-core plates, like this: http://www.kijiji.ca/v-business-industrial/kitchener-waterloo/granite-surface-plate-with-stand-36-x48-inspection-a-grade/601710347?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[01:54:54] <LeelooMinai> Not for me though:p
[01:54:54] <XXCoder> circuit bending heh
[01:54:54] <PetefromTn_> just can't swing shit right now with Christmas coming fast
[01:55:03] <pfred1> surface grinders are nice though
[01:55:14] <PetefromTn_> I will get one soon
[01:55:19] <XXCoder> lee thats smaller version of what I see at work daily
[01:55:24] <PetefromTn_> I gotta have one really for what I want to do here
[01:55:27] <pfred1> I don't like where the handles are on that one
[01:55:34] <XXCoder> I see 3 really big ones together at buyoff dept
[01:55:39] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Next time you see me remind me to look the guys up, they were fun, but I need to wake up again in 5 hours, to sleep starts now.
[01:55:39] <LeelooMinai> Well, my floor would probably collapse under it
[01:55:56] <XXCoder> yeah probably weigh a ton. cost a ton too
[01:55:58] <FinboySlick> LeelooMinai: Wow.
[01:56:02] <XXCoder> its over foot thick I think
[01:56:02] <PetefromTn_> Gn8 andy
[01:56:08] <pfred1> ones I used they were reversed and the back and forth was to the right
[01:56:20] <FinboySlick> andypugh: No problem.
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[01:58:15] <PetefromTn_> the thing is that sometimes older surface grinders get a belly in them from use
[01:58:24] <XXCoder> belly
[01:58:25] <XXCoder> ?
[01:58:37] <PetefromTn_> there is a low spot in the travel
[01:58:39] <pfred1> the guidesd get worn
[01:58:49] <XXCoder> ahh
[01:59:03] <pfred1> well you could always face off the magnet
[01:59:11] <PetefromTn_> even a little bit on a grinder makes them almost unusable
[01:59:19] <PetefromTn_> you DO face off the magnet
[01:59:30] <PetefromTn_> but if your travel is not straight you faced it off with a belly
[01:59:42] <pfred1> yeah I can see that
[01:59:42] <FinboySlick> Would linear rails be precise enough for a surface grinder? I imagine that replacing balls/bearings would be a lot easier in terms of maintenance.
[01:59:43] <XXCoder> face off the magnet?
[01:59:53] <PetefromTn_> one of the ones we used in that shop had that problem or was starting to
[01:59:53] <pfred1> the magnetic chuck
[02:00:11] <PetefromTn_> everyone bitched about it
[02:00:12] <XXCoder> I would suppose test it with some metal and see if very flat
[02:00:13] <pfred1> shop I worked in all of our stuff was pretty good
[02:00:14] <Connor> PetefromTn_: What are you planning on using it for?
[02:00:18] <PetefromTn_> they wanted to get a new one
[02:00:26] <XXCoder> then finally face off surface
[02:00:27] <pfred1> you can get them rebuilt
[02:00:29] <PetefromTn_> surface grinding :D
[02:00:46] <PetefromTn_> sure but that would cost a LOT
[02:00:53] <pfred1> we had a horizontal mill thing was like 150 years old but it was rebuilt
[02:00:56] <XXCoder> cheaper than buy new one?>
[02:01:04] <pfred1> man it was beautiful
[02:01:21] <PetefromTn_> unless you are a machine rebuilder...unfortunately I am not
[02:01:28] <pfred1> it had the nicest chipped frosting I've ever seen on it
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[02:01:44] <pfred1> someone really went wild
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[02:04:11] <pfred1> if I was a little more savvy back then I could have really cleaned that shop out when I was there
[02:04:27] <pfred1> place was going under anyways
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[02:24:20] <PetefromTn_> BBL
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[03:03:27] <bobo_> ssi : Have you seen the"Suburban Tool " grinding series videos on Y-tube ?
[03:11:34] <Tom_itx> by any chance do you know of any patents, pictures, anything showing the exploded view or inside view of a capstan lathe lock mechanism?
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[03:21:18] <Jymm> http://www.google.com/patents/US2791822
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[03:21:58] <XXCoder> wb
[03:22:44] <Jymm> Tom_itx: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/%22He_Says_it_should_have_been_over_long_ago_but_they%27re_building_so_dammed_many_Turret_Lathes%22_-_NARA_-_534383.jpg
[03:24:25] <Jymm> http://www.lathes.co.uk/exacta/
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[03:28:32] <Tom_L> need an exploded assembly view of the lock mechanism
[03:28:41] <Tom_L> need to find some missing parts
[03:29:05] <Tom_L> or what they look like
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[03:34:43] <Jymm> Tom_itx: I'm not coming across ANY exploded views for capstan lathes, much less lock mech
[03:35:13] <Tom_L> yeah me either
[03:35:39] <Jymm> "diagram" might be a better word
[03:35:50] <Jymm> but not by much
[03:37:49] <Jymm> Tom_itx: any help? http://www.lathes.co.uk/portercable/img5.jpg
[03:38:42] <Jymm> Tom_itx: scroll down http://www.lathes.co.uk/portercable/
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[04:30:39] <ssi> bobo_: no, but I'll look for it
[04:30:54] <ssi> I finished grinding my first little inspection block
[04:31:02] <ssi> it came out undersized in the 2" dimension unfortunately
[04:31:10] <ssi> but the 1/2 and 1" dimensions are pretty good
[04:31:20] <ssi> 2-3 tenths oversize in both
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[04:33:07] <pfred1> anymore I follow the school of thought that the need for extreme precision is a sign of poor engineering
[04:33:43] <ssi> that's a cool story, but the exercise was "make a precision block"
[04:34:41] <pfred1> well, keep at it, I'm sure you'll manage eventually
[04:34:55] <pfred1> in the shop I worked in we'd throw out half of what we made
[04:35:07] <pfred1> nope, that's not it either
[04:35:18] <ssi> ...
[04:35:31] <pfred1> that's why what we sold ended up costing so much
[04:35:34] <ssi> first extreme precision is a waste, then I'm grossly incompetent for only holding 3 tenths?
[04:35:56] <pfred1> you were buying the dozens of parts we threw out making the few that were good enough
[04:37:36] <skunkworks> forgot to post this here. http://youtu.be/Pe2RACwiEbg
[04:38:01] <XXCoder> ssi: not 123 block?
[04:38:10] <ssi> 1/2-1-2
[04:38:13] <ssi> was the original plan
[04:38:21] <ssi> but I want to make them 1/2-1-1.5
[04:38:26] <XXCoder> interesting
[04:38:28] <ssi> the first set came out too short on the bandsaw
[04:38:32] <ssi> that's why it's short now
[04:38:34] <ssi> it wasn't overground
[04:38:39] <pfred1> there's a lot to be said for a sheet of wet or dry on a plate of metal when it comes to making some things the right size
[04:38:48] <XXCoder> it reminds me, saw 246 block on sale some site
[04:38:54] <XXCoder> 123 I use a lot but 246?
[04:38:57] <ssi> I have 246
[04:39:00] <ssi> they're handy for setups
[04:39:53] <XXCoder> interesting
[04:40:57] <Connor> skunkworks: You find me DB 25 + DB 9 PC bracket? :)
[04:41:19] <skunkworks> crap - you should have reminded me.. I didn't even think of it. sorry
[04:41:27] <skunkworks> next week ping me
[04:41:36] <Connor> ok
[04:41:46] <XXCoder> wonder if theres 4-8-12
[04:41:47] <Connor> I meant to say something this morning.. I forgot.
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[05:03:23] <bobo_> ssi your surface grinder .....electromag chuck or straight mag ?
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[05:57:26] <zeeshan> XXCoder: you there?
[05:57:32] <XXCoder> yep whats up
[05:57:35] <zeeshan> can i pm you
[05:58:02] <XXCoder> sure
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[06:40:29] <Jymm> Man, that's MASSIVE... http://sat.wrh.noaa.gov/satellite/loopsat.php?wfo=mtr&area=west&type=ir&size=2
[07:00:27] <WalterN> yay for working 13.5 hours (so far)
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[07:57:10] <Deejay> moin
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[11:37:12] <jthornton> morning
[11:38:10] <jthornton> looks like moveoff is taking shape
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[14:53:35] <Tom_itx> jthornton, nice to hear
[14:53:42] <Tom_itx> what have you done with it?
[14:59:44] <Tom_itx> if my machine were back together i would try that
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[15:47:56] <PetefromTn_> Good Morning
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[17:34:30] <pcw_home> big legos:
[17:34:32] <pcw_home> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoRIztYmWjY
[17:35:32] <zeeshan> that is a very cool design
[17:35:41] <zeeshan> the power of the mechanical wedge always amazes me :D
[17:37:10] <zeeshan> ohj its not only a wedge
[17:37:15] <zeeshan> tehre is interlocking things
[17:37:51] <pcw_home> Yeah self aligning
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[17:43:42] <ssi> cool
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[17:45:46] <zeeshan> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/422980_390031801075262_2029707621_n.jpg?oh=f349f1a9367502bb43fd5ac14f10b5c3&oe=551FA6D8&__gda__=1425741577_a6c756d7f2b4ff64716a1db09cf85d2d
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[17:46:16] <ssi> hahaha
[17:46:27] <zeeshan> :D
[17:46:36] <zeeshan> did you heat treat?
[17:46:45] <ssi> yusss
[17:46:52] <zeeshan> howd it work out
[17:47:11] <ssi> perfectly :D
[17:47:18] <zeeshan> how much bigger did it grow/warp
[17:47:27] <ssi> pretty much immesurably
[17:47:27] <zeeshan> i havent used anything but a2
[17:47:32] <zeeshan> really?
[17:47:34] <ssi> yeah
[17:47:35] <zeeshan> from 1750F
[17:47:37] <zeeshan> to oil?
[17:47:41] <PetefromTn_> that is pretty cool
[17:47:42] <ssi> 1500F
[17:47:53] <ssi> I'm not happy with the first blocks I made, because of the millwork
[17:47:58] <ssi> I'm going to make a better set
[17:48:07] <ssi> but I finish ground one of them
[17:48:21] <ssi> and it's .5003" x 1.0002" x 1.9962"
[17:48:27] <ssi> it's short because I cut it short on the bandsaw :P
[17:48:47] <zeeshan> ill take it :)
[17:49:02] <ssi> parallelism is half tenth or better; I don't trust my shitty tenths indicators
[17:49:14] <ssi> metrology is part of this exercise too heh
[17:49:23] <ssi> I need to figure out how to measure squareness on the surface plate
[17:49:31] <ssi> forrest addy has a post about doing it with a 123 block and a height gage
[17:49:35] <ssi> but I need to internalize it
[17:49:53] <archivist> make a circular square
[17:50:03] <ssi> I'd like to have one
[17:50:08] <zeeshan> have you seen oxtoolco's youtube video?
[17:50:10] <zeeshan> on measuring squareness
[17:50:12] <ssi> no
[17:50:14] <zeeshan> he demonstrates it pretty good
[17:50:43] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDzL4Y0CIHM
[17:50:57] <zeeshan> start with square off
[17:51:01] <zeeshan> i think theres 3 parts.
[17:51:11] <ssi> cool thanks
[17:51:41] <ssi> I've been going nuts on ebay buying tooling
[17:51:52] <ssi> I lost some of my good metrology tools
[17:52:05] <ssi> actually found my good starrett and B&S tenths mics yesterday in a box of stuff from teh upstairs, and they're trashed
[17:52:21] <ssi> I had to buy a new set of gage blocks cause my set was by the laser; I used them for focal length touchoff
[17:52:36] <zeeshan> what ones did you buy
[17:52:48] <ssi> just the B grade shars ones
[17:52:50] <ssi> $80 81 piece set
[17:52:53] <ssi> same as I had before
[17:53:24] <zeeshan> you trust em? :p
[17:53:46] <ssi> I dunno! :)
[17:54:00] <ssi> they come with a test certificate with measured error
[17:54:08] <zeeshan> hehe
[17:54:13] <ssi> so if that's accurate it doesn't really matter to me how close to marked size they are
[17:54:51] <zeeshan> i have tested some fowler made in china ones
[17:54:53] <zeeshan> and phase 2
[17:55:04] <zeeshan> in comparison to a ceramic mitutoyo 1"
[17:55:11] <zeeshan> with a tenths indicator
[17:55:17] <zeeshan> they're definitely within a tenth!
[17:55:28] <ssi> yeah
[17:55:33] <zeeshan> dont know how square they are though
[17:55:54] <archivist> I did some testing here, it is not easy to get within tenths
[17:56:02] <zeeshan> why
[17:56:03] <ssi> no, it's definitely not easy
[17:56:46] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=comparator+mercer
[17:57:08] <archivist> I need to warm up the room before I play
[17:57:48] <archivist> it is a bugger to get the ball central
[17:57:51] <zeeshan> does that say
[17:57:52] <zeeshan> .00001
[17:57:55] <zeeshan> or .0001
[17:58:00] <zeeshan> for 1 div
[17:58:25] <archivist> 100000 th of an inch :)
[17:58:30] <zeeshan> hahah
[17:58:36] <ssi> that's awesome
[17:58:37] <archivist> nats cock or less
[17:58:46] <ssi> 10 uin
[17:59:13] <ssi> my hardinge's original control had a mode that made the minimum resolution 20uin, .00002
[17:59:13] <zeeshan> i bet if you hold that sphere with your hands
[17:59:17] <zeeshan> you can see the needle change =D
[17:59:48] <archivist> it shakes too much
[18:00:17] <archivist> I have a couple other toys which are optical
[18:01:49] <archivist> I was surprised how different all the "standards" were
[18:02:01] <ssi> yeah I'm sure
[18:02:06] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jGXsBNQBx0
[18:02:17] <ssi> that's how I was measuring the size and flatness of my block
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[18:02:24] <ssi> it's stacked up with a 1" gage block
[18:02:39] <ssi> s/flatness/parallelism/
[18:03:13] <zeeshan> did you give up on your cnc conversion?!
[18:03:14] <zeeshan> :D
[18:03:20] <ssi> no
[18:03:23] <ssi> I just jump around a lot :)
[18:03:31] <ssi> I have to finish the interior of my cherokee too
[18:03:36] <zeeshan> i took a break from my sutff
[18:03:39] <zeeshan> was giving me stress
[18:03:39] <ssi> oh and I bought that pitts, and I need to build wings for it
[18:03:40] <ssi> heh
[18:03:40] <zeeshan> lol
[18:06:19] <ssi> I need to make some little parallel clamps like he's got
[18:06:35] <ssi> I'm looking for all those machinist school toolmaking projects to do
[18:06:40] <ssi> I'm having to teach myself all this crap :)
[18:07:24] <zeeshan> those parallel clamps are awesome
[18:07:27] <ssi> yeah
[18:07:27] <zeeshan> i dont have any :/
[18:07:32] <ssi> make some! :)
[18:07:38] <zeeshan> er
[18:07:40] <zeeshan> i have parallel clamps
[18:07:44] <zeeshan> i thought you were talking about parallel wedges
[18:07:52] <ssi> parallel wedges?
[18:08:01] <zeeshan> http://images.starrett.com/is/image/Starrett/154De50581cUSp1?wid=240&hei=240&qlt=80,1&fmt=png-alpha&maskUse=norm
[18:08:02] <zeeshan> those
[18:08:04] <zeeshan> for setup
[18:08:15] <ssi> oh yea adjustable parallels
[18:08:17] <ssi> I don't have any either
[18:08:32] <zeeshan> they look nice for setting up
[18:08:49] <ssi> I'm not sure what they'd be good for to be honest
[18:11:15] <ssi> so I'm watching this 'square off' video
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[18:11:34] <ssi> and it occurs to me... both those 30 degree squares are measuring .0005" off across the face
[18:11:43] <ssi> maybe it's in his setup? his gage blocks are off or something?
[18:11:43] <ssi> heh
[18:11:51] <archivist> look at shaper tool http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/Starrett_995_%20Planer_Gage_5.jpg
[18:11:54] <zeeshan> well this guy who makes the suares
[18:12:00] <zeeshan> grinds em side by side in the fixture
[18:12:06] <zeeshan> so his fixutre could be off relative to the machine
[18:12:13] <ssi> yes definitely
[18:12:14] <archivist> tool pr0n http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/mensuration_instruments.htm
[18:12:22] <ssi> mestruation instruments?!
[18:12:43] <ssi> I like his height gage
[18:14:15] <ssi> I do like those little squares he's makin though
[18:14:27] <ssi> might be a fun project to add to my toolmaking list :D
[18:16:43] <ssi> ooh he's got the moore 123 blocks too
[18:16:44] <ssi> I like those
[18:18:30] <archivist> someone should train him not to put everything on one page
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[18:19:07] <ssi> lol
[18:19:14] <ssi> I need to get some surface plate cleaner
[18:19:25] -!- Nick_name has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[18:19:36] <archivist> some sandpaper ?
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[18:42:22] <SpeedEvil> angle grinder
[18:42:25] <SpeedEvil> shines it rightup
[18:43:12] <archivist> mine did actually go rusty :(
[18:43:48] <roycroft> i use methyl alcohol to clean my surface plate
[18:44:23] <roycroft> or denatured ethyl alcohol, whatever is handy
[18:47:05] <SpeedEvil> archivist: electrolytic derusting is probably best
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[18:52:41] <ssi> fortunately mine isn't going to rust
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[18:57:19] <jdh> but rust never sleeps
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[18:57:52] <ssi> rust also doesn't infect granite :P
[18:58:08] <jdh> don't let facts confuse the issue.
[19:01:00] <jdh> that's a pretty sexy page above.
[19:02:30] <archivist> he is rather good at taking pictures too
[19:05:45] <zeeshan> http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/digital_caliper_fractional_1.jpg
[19:05:46] <jdh> our gage lab through away 4 or 5 height gauges with granite plates a few months ago.
[19:05:47] <zeeshan> lol
[19:05:49] <zeeshan> that is pretty cool
[19:05:52] <zeeshan> the fractional mode
[19:06:03] <jdh> z: I have a HF one that does that.
[19:07:23] <archivist> I have a peg digital to 1/4" http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=caliper+vernier
[19:08:09] <jdh> that's kinda cool too
[19:08:42] <archivist> no idea what it was used for
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[19:17:11] <PetefromTn_> Damn
[19:17:32] <PetefromTn_> looks like that .05" radius cutter I ordered won't get here til' monday
[19:17:36] <PetefromTn_> Oh well
[19:17:44] <ssi> aw
[19:18:20] <PetefromTn_> I can cut the rest of the parts in the machine mounted in my two vises and just wait until the cutter arrives to finish them
[19:18:47] <ssi> damn I'm hungry
[19:18:47] <PetefromTn_> already got it all programmed
[19:20:47] <PetefromTn_> still trying to decide on a base for the LED edge lit sign..
[19:24:17] <ssi> I'm gonna meander down to the shop shortly and setup the mill to make the next set of blocks
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[19:24:33] <ssi> gonna actually tram the mill tightly this time :P
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[20:43:46] <JT-Shop> it's a pain to tram a tilt and nod mill head
[20:45:13] <syyl_> thats what i think every time i see a bridgeport :D
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[20:46:25] <JT-Shop> I mounted a dial indicator on mine to see if has moved
[20:46:47] <syyl_> oh, those go out of tram by itself?
[20:50:09] <JT-Shop> no, you have to screw up your G code usually... mine is a series 1 with a 3 axis Anilam conversion kit on it.
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[21:12:00] <ssi> I just got it all trammed in tight :D
[21:12:19] <ssi> also, I bought a new set of harbor freight parallels because the set I bought when I first got the mill is missing one or two and some of them are nicked up
[21:12:31] <ssi> very good example of something from harbor freight worth buying, especially when you're new :)
[21:12:49] <ssi> so for funsies, I put the pair that I'm about to use on the surface plate, turns out they're dead nuts parallel and matched
[21:12:55] <jdh> one of the metal recycling places here opened a resale warehouse side. I can now get metal drops by the pound.
[21:12:58] <ssi> so I heartily support $30 HF parallels!
[21:13:59] <syyl_> parallels and screwless grinding vices are two things the chinese get right
[21:14:02] <syyl_> all the time
[21:14:17] <ssi> I have a few chinese grinding vises too
[21:14:24] <syyl_> i love mine
[21:14:25] <ssi> in fact I need to find my tiny one for doing these little blocks
[21:14:35] <ssi> I'm glad I bought all this crap years ago before I knew wtf to do with any of it :D
[21:14:36] <syyl_> have one with 25, 55 and 80mm
[21:14:41] <ssi> now that I'm figuring it all out, I have what I need
[21:15:45] <syyl_> and they all are dead nuts on
[21:15:54] <ssi> :D
[21:16:22] <roycroft> i need to weld some plate onto a square tubing frame i made
[21:16:36] <roycroft> it will be horizontal, so no tensile stress at all - just a tiny bit of shear stress
[21:16:43] <roycroft> i don't want weld beads around the edges
[21:17:05] <roycroft> i was thinking of drilling 1/8" holes through the plate and the top of the tubing, countersinking the holes in the plate, and just welding through the holes
[21:17:16] <roycroft> does that seem like a good plan?
[21:18:02] * roycroft knows there is some welding talent on this channel, and he is not part of that talent
[21:19:09] <ssi> lol
[21:19:21] <ssi> basically you'll be spot welding
[21:19:31] <roycroft> yes
[21:19:37] <ssi> sounds pretty reasonable, but I'm not a pro welder. I do know a pro welder, but he's at work at the moment
[21:19:45] <ssi> if you don't have an answer by the time he gets home I'll ask
[21:19:58] <roycroft> and i could do it neatly enough that there would be a minimum of grinding required
[21:20:18] <roycroft> i might not get to the welding until tomorrow
[21:20:40] <roycroft> i need to drill some holes in the plate, mount some brewing vessels, and then fill them with water to see if the frame sags
[21:20:54] <roycroft> i'd rather reinforce the frame before affixing the plate permanently
[21:21:26] <roycroft> if reinforcement is necessary
[21:21:37] <ssi> hm my phone won't get on wifi
[21:21:46] <ssi> I took a video of inspecting these parallels and I want to post it
[21:21:54] <roycroft> are they parallel?
[21:21:59] <ssi> very
[21:22:04] <roycroft> that is good
[21:22:21] <roycroft> otherwise they would be fraudulent
[21:22:32] <ssi> well they came from harbor freight
[21:22:37] <ssi> so you can imagine why I decided to inspect :)
[21:22:43] <roycroft> yes
[21:22:50] <roycroft> wow
[21:22:52] <roycroft> 15 degrees out
[21:23:00] <roycroft> no wonder i have to work on a tee shirt today
[21:23:07] <roycroft> it got too hot with a heavy flannel shirt on
[21:23:19] * roycroft likes balmy december days
[21:23:38] <ssi> I hope that's in french units :P
[21:23:56] <ssi> if so, it's a bit warmer than that here
[21:24:03] <ssi> maybe 16 french fake temperature units or so
[21:24:58] <roycroft> it's normal units, not those crazy f things that the us still clings to
[21:25:11] <ssi> :)
[21:25:22] * roycroft heads back to the shop for a bit
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[21:32:02] <zeeshan> Hm..
[21:32:06] <zeeshan> 3 wires coming from the lamp
[21:32:11] <zeeshan> 220v lamp?!?
[21:32:22] <zeeshan> er
[21:32:22] <zeeshan> duhh
[21:32:30] <zeeshan> nm
[21:32:37] <zeeshan> 1 hot 1 neutral one earth
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[21:33:09] <marmite> of course
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[21:47:03] <pcw_home> ahh cmon try it on 220, it will light up your life...
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[22:05:52] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Q67PW1kMk
[22:06:05] <ssi> got my parallel inpsection vid up at long last
[22:06:13] <ssi> stupid phone refused to do hd tho :P
[22:13:32] <Deejay> gn
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[22:25:59] <zeeshan> is that a tenths indicator
[22:26:16] <zeeshan> fuu
[22:26:24] <zeeshan> indicator isnt touching!
[22:26:24] <zeeshan> :P
[22:31:13] <pfred1> sweet I'm right where I thought I'd be 4 days ago now!
[22:32:31] <pfred1> zeeshan I rebuilt a wheel dresser once and when I indicated it the tenths gauge didn't even budge
[22:32:49] <pfred1> I thought something was wrong myself so I called someone else over to have them check it out
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[22:46:04] <ssi> zeeshan: it's defniitely touching
[22:46:10] <zeeshan> :-)
[22:46:15] <zeeshan> i dont see proof in video!
[22:46:16] <ssi> :)
[22:46:20] <ssi> yeah SORRY
[22:46:22] <ssi> but I promise it is
[22:46:23] <zeeshan> =]
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[22:46:36] <zeeshan> is that a tenths indicator?
[22:46:38] <ssi> I'm milling up my .5-1-1.5 blocks now
[22:46:39] <ssi> yeah it is
[22:46:43] <zeeshan> nicee
[22:46:51] <ssi> on the 1" dimension off the mill I have .0003" parallelism across 1.5"
[22:47:00] <ssi> I'm just doing .010" oversize in all dimensions this time
[22:47:06] <ssi> cause it didn't move much at all last time
[22:48:19] <zeeshan> lol im looking at a differential rebuild service manual written in 92 for the rx7
[22:48:30] <zeeshan> "coat the ring gear with red lead"
[22:48:31] <zeeshan> :-)
[22:48:46] <ssi> heheh
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[22:57:34] <pfred1> red lead is glazing putty
[22:57:58] <pfred1> well in one context at least
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[22:58:27] <pfred1> comes in green too
[23:03:27] <zeeshan> lol
[23:03:30] <zeeshan> f that nonsense :P
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[23:21:31] <ssi> heheh
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[23:26:54] <pfred1> zeeshan they're probably explaining how to gauge contact
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[23:46:25] <zeeshan> pfred1: i know that :P
[23:46:33] <zeeshan> im just suprised at the lead paint suggestion
[23:46:51] <zeeshan> im sure they make an alternative
[23:47:03] <zeeshan> i wonder if i can just use dykem
[23:47:12] <zeeshan> or if its too thin.
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