#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-12-03

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[00:07:02] <roycroft> i have to machine some ceramic insulators
[00:07:10] <roycroft> is diamond grit tooling my only option?
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[00:15:06] <_methods> yeah pretty much
[00:16:36] * roycroft was hoping silicon carbide might do it, but is dubious
[00:17:09] <roycroft> i just had a brilliant idea though - pottery kiln furniture
[00:17:18] <roycroft> which i think i can get in the exact size i need
[00:17:19] <_methods> man that stuff is a nightmare
[00:17:24] <_methods> tooling is expensive
[00:17:31] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/search?q=do+a+barrel+roll
[00:18:06] <roycroft> i need to thermally isolate a burner assembly that gets up to about 300c from the rest of my brew stand
[00:18:35] <_methods> ceramic inserts
[00:18:40] <_methods> ceramic washers
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[00:18:56] <roycroft> i'm thinking of some 1"x1" kiln posts
[00:18:57] <_methods> stack them up to give you enough clearance for thermal break
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[00:19:02] <roycroft> they are hollow in the center
[00:19:05] <_methods> yeah
[00:19:15] <roycroft> i can weld a stud to the brew stand and to the burner assembly
[00:19:26] <roycroft> and set the insulator on the brew stand stud and set the burner on top of it
[00:19:29] <roycroft> that would work fine
[00:19:29] <_methods> you can get the ceramic washers for a decent price on mcmaster
[00:19:45] <_methods> they're a bit spendy but not too horrible
[00:19:46] <roycroft> i can get the kiln posts at a local pottery supply store for about $1.25 each
[00:19:56] <_methods> hell that's a no brainer
[00:20:07] <_methods> try it with the posts and if it doesn't work shift frie
[00:20:14] <_methods> s/frie/fire
[00:20:16] <roycroft> http://www.amazon.com/Inch-Kiln-Posts-Set/dp/B0078G460O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1417566003&sr=8-2&keywords=kiln+posts
[00:20:30] <roycroft> stuff like that
[00:20:49] <roycroft> my brew stand is made of 1"x1" square tubing, so they would sit on top perfectly
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[00:21:10] <roycroft> so i think i should go buy some of those before the store closes
[00:21:19] <Jymmm> https://www.google.com/search?q=askew&gws_rd=ssl
[00:21:20] <roycroft> and perhaps do a bit of fabrication tonight
[00:22:07] <Jymmm> https://www.google.com/search?q=zerg+rush
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[00:55:53] <_methods> wow talk about making something more complicated than it has to be
[00:56:04] <_methods> all that madness to make an ark
[00:56:09] <_methods> arc even
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[01:07:05] <unfy> was building an electric shop furnace 9 months ago ... but things happened ._.
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[01:11:31] <roycroft> well they went up in price
[01:11:38] <roycroft> they're $1.45 now
[01:11:44] <roycroft> but i blew the budget and got them anyway
[01:12:05] <roycroft> one only lives once (per lifetime at least)
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[02:15:13] <jfigie> cradek ?
[02:19:34] <jfigie> I have a SEM DC servo motor with tach that works better in one direction than the other. cradek suggested that the issue may be the tach. I took the motor off the machine and scoped the tach output. I used a hand drill to spin the motor. The output is noisy in both directions but maybe 2 times worse in the direction that was giving me trouble (CW).
[02:19:52] <jfigie> Now I need to figure out how to fix the tach.
[02:20:12] <jdh> clean the brushes
[02:20:38] <jfigie> Here is a view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fj8HWg0FnNOHkxSlFIVzkyRU0/view?usp=sharing
[02:20:57] <jfigie> I cleaned up the carbon dust
[02:21:13] <jfigie> but it is a little oily inside still
[02:21:30] <jfigie> how do you clean the brushes?
[02:21:42] <jdh> if the brush holders aren't centered, they will wear oddly and catch one direction
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[02:22:38] <jdh> take them out, clean everything. make sure the springs work
[02:22:46] <jfigie> OK but what about the commutator segments? How smooth do they need to be?
[02:22:48] <jdh> clean up the armature edges if needed
[02:22:56] <jdh> err...commutator
[02:23:19] <jdh> I have no way to quantify that
[02:23:29] <jfigie> I checked the springs by pushing each brush up with an xacto
[02:24:13] <jdh> pull it out and deglaze the segments?
[02:25:43] <jfigie> ok armature segments. I will take it apart further. I just did not want to take it apart more than necessary
[02:26:25] <jdh> commutator segments
[02:28:14] <jfigie> So after cleaning up the commutator in a lathe? Do I need to do anything to the brushes? will they just quickly wear back to the right shape?
[02:29:47] <jdh> I have usually spun the motor with a drill or whatever to reshape the brushes and then blow out the carbon
[02:30:39] <jfigie> OK thanks. I will proceed from here.
[02:31:54] <jfigie> Maybe some new gaskets to keep the oil out. The motor is about 27 years old.
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[03:29:16] <PetefromTn_> Damn I love craigslist..
[03:29:23] <XXCoder> yeah?
[03:29:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[03:29:31] <jdh> W4WM?
[03:29:46] <XXCoder> found something>
[03:29:55] <PetefromTn_> I ripped out all that old AC unit shit and all the old sheetmetal
[03:30:02] <PetefromTn_> had it all sitting in my driveway
[03:30:07] <PetefromTn_> wanted it GONE
[03:30:20] <PetefromTn_> someone is supposed to be coming to look at my house for sale in the morning
[03:30:26] <PetefromTn_> took a couple pictures
[03:30:34] <PetefromTn_> posted a free ad on craigslist
[03:30:39] <PetefromTn_> come get it ALL or none
[03:30:49] <jdh> scrap metal would bet picked up in 10 mins here
[03:30:52] <PetefromTn_> half an hour later and my driveway is CLEAN!!
[03:31:15] <jdh> and they are happy too
[03:31:26] <PetefromTn_> even got a phone number from the nice guy that came to pick it up for a Tile install guy that he recommended during our conversation.
[03:31:31] <PetefromTn_> yeah they were pretty happy.
[03:31:44] <PetefromTn_> I would normally try to recycle that shit myself
[03:31:54] <XXCoder> just bad timing
[03:31:56] <PetefromTn_> but I don't have the time right now
[03:32:33] <PetefromTn_> SO I am happy it is all gone and I can concentrate on cleaning up the yard from leaves and stuff and clean up the house inside for their visit.
[03:32:46] <PetefromTn_> With my luck I will do all of this and they won't show up again
[03:32:54] <PetefromTn_> had that happen a couple times now
[03:32:58] <PetefromTn_> asshats
[03:34:48] <PetefromTn_> I cannot tell you how nice this new AC unit is. SOOO quiet and so far it seems to barely run to keep the house nice and warm. I am so pleased. Plus it is one less annoyance to chalk off the list of things the house needs finished to be completed
[03:34:59] <PetefromTn_> hopefully it will help me sell it soon.
[03:35:16] <jdh> my old ones would run about 20hours a day in the summer
[03:35:24] <jdh> new ones are much better
[03:35:43] <PetefromTn_> yeah this one is not some state of the art thing but compared to what I had it is MUCH better LOL.
[03:35:55] <XXCoder> probably better effecentivty
[03:36:01] <XXCoder> less power for more bac
[03:36:12] <jdh> replaced both of mine last year. old ones were from 1992?
[03:36:25] <PetefromTn_> shits expensive huh
[03:36:33] <jdh> not really.
[03:36:47] <PetefromTn_> it is to me man..
[03:36:52] <PetefromTn_> and I got a great deal
[03:37:14] <jdh> friend with hvac company needed to keep his guys busy so I got it at cost + their labor
[03:38:00] <PetefromTn_> Once I get to Florida I will have that kinda setup. My best friend for years does AC work. He already has done similar for my other best friend and family members. Wish he was closer
[03:38:30] <jdh> he would be if you hadn't run off and left him for teh backwoods
[03:38:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah right what the Frack was I thinking???
[03:39:02] <jdh> guess where I'll be in 3.5 weeks
[03:39:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know you might as well live there it seems
[03:39:45] <PetefromTn_> Tell you what if I get my house sold we are gonna need to do some diving together man LOL
[03:40:15] <Connor> I better get my stuff done before you do sell the house.. Huh?
[03:40:36] <PetefromTn_> might be a good idea for us to finish my toolchanger too LOL
[03:40:39] <PetefromTn_> but yeah
[03:40:54] <PetefromTn_> been following that WJ200 thread today
[03:41:07] <PetefromTn_> gotta figure out how to get orient working here somehow.
[03:41:21] <PetefromTn_> that is really the only thing holding us back from the toolchanger setup.
[03:42:10] <XXCoder> heh would love to have toolchanger but my cnc simply cant be used with it
[03:43:32] <Connor> If there was better documentation and examples of the component.. it would be that big of a deal.
[03:44:15] <PetefromTn_> well apparently there are several people using it now so maybe there will be soon.
[03:44:41] <Connor> Someone did get it working.. and supposedly sent his stuff to who ever maintains the wiki.. not sure if it made it on yet or not.
[03:47:41] <PetefromTn_> I think I want to get rid of my fish tank man...sigh
[03:47:54] <XXCoder> fish tank man. sounds weird. lol
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[03:48:09] <PetefromTn_> my last guppy died yesterday
[03:48:16] <PetefromTn_> all that is left is the plecostamus
[03:48:23] <PetefromTn_> and he is a hearty little guy
[03:48:33] <XXCoder> or it has connections to mafia.
[03:48:34] <PetefromTn_> but I am kinda over the goldfish dying
[03:49:10] <PetefromTn_> besides if we move I am not gonna be taking it with us that would be a beotch
[03:49:23] <XXCoder> big ass tank eh
[03:49:31] <PetefromTn_> no not really
[03:49:41] <PetefromTn_> I cannot remember how many gallons it is
[03:49:52] <PetefromTn_> probably 30 or something like that
[03:50:26] <XXCoder> actually its possible to just put fish in larg-ish plastic bag. when you fill tank with fresh water put bag in it for while to balance out then release
[03:50:48] <XXCoder> but since youre basically done its better just to sell it or something
[03:50:56] <PetefromTn_> yeah but moving to florida with fish in a bag is probably not gonna work
[03:51:08] <XXCoder> or pull it apart and make cool glass designs with cnc
[03:51:16] <XXCoder> yeah
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[04:00:59] <CaptHindsight> 102F and climbing
[04:01:06] <XXCoder> ?
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[04:03:31] <CaptHindsight> what the thermometer says
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[04:15:32] <XXCoder> on what? your kiln? your body?
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[04:26:17] <Connor_iPad> CaptHindsight: What thermometer?
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[04:39:35] <unfy> plecos usually are hearty
[04:40:44] <unfy> but yeah, a gradual water mixing and stuff is usually good. put the bag in the tank (still closed) for a while to slowly balance temp, then add in a bit of tank water every 5min for a while and then finally dump them ... or something.
[04:40:50] <unfy> or, just give them to your cats :D
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[04:49:49] <PetefromTn_> yeah well like I said just probably should let it go to someone else who wants it. Its a nice tank actually.
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[04:55:24] <unfy> i gave my inexpensive 55gal tank to someone who used it as a planter.
[05:01:02] <XXCoder> any if you guys ever engraved glass with cnc?
[05:01:46] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLJcoPtGlbA
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[05:07:56] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8RY01M7BFQ interesting
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[05:27:12] <unfy> being nervous about drilling through glass, i can't imagine :D
[05:28:29] <Jymmm> It's no biggy, just keep it wet.
[05:28:30] <Jymmm> and you glass drill bits
[05:28:30] <Jymmm> use*
[05:29:02] <roycroft> if the holes need to be big, use a piece of drill rod and some diamond grit to drill through the tlass
[05:29:05] <roycroft> and lots of water
[05:56:31] <ssi> home with a new toy
[05:57:32] <Connor_iPad> ssi so where is home now?
[05:57:36] <ssi> the airport :)
[05:57:59] <Connor_iPad> For you too?
[05:58:04] <ssi> yep
[05:58:16] <Connor_iPad> Damn dude.
[05:58:21] <ssi> ?L
[05:58:26] <ssi> it's awesome here
[05:59:25] <Connor_iPad> And if they find you living there ?
[05:59:38] <ssi> who's "they"?
[05:59:57] <Connor_iPad> Airport hanger landlord?
[06:00:06] <ssi> I'm not living in my hangar
[06:00:10] <ssi> I'm living in an apartment
[06:00:12] <Connor_iPad> Oh
[06:00:36] <ssi> the hangar isn't insulated, doesn't have running water :P
[06:00:43] <ssi> I slept out there three nights in a row when the VMC was delivered
[06:00:47] <Connor_iPad> Ok
[06:00:48] <ssi> it was 70 degrees at night so it was fine
[06:00:53] <ssi> but I wouldn't do it for a winter :P
[06:01:37] <Connor_iPad> Nope.
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[06:03:26] <Connor_iPad> How goes the vmc?
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[06:04:40] <ssi> honestly it's not going at the mometn
[06:04:53] <ssi> problem is, I was in the midst of solving the commutation problems at home
[06:05:01] <ssi> and now I don't have a scope or a bench supply or a cpld programmer anymore
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[08:03:06] <Deejay> moin
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[08:18:02] <Connor> ssi That kinda sucks. I hope you get your insurance money soon.
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[08:34:07] <seltecc> Have a 5-axis CNC Breakout board with TB1H driver and want the spindel control with the ralay out....so I added the "net spindle-enable motion.spindle-on => parport.0.pin-9-out" in the hal-file now because of this an error shows up "does not exist" what to do?
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[08:54:03] <archivist> make sure you spell it correctly
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[10:23:59] <Jymmm> Powdered Turkey http://www.amazon.com/BulkSupplements-Pure-L-Tryptophan-Powder-grams/dp/B00GT42E96/ref=sr_1_42?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1417602116&sr=1-42
[10:36:13] <seltecc> I took this "net spindle-enable motion.spindle-on => parport.0.pin-9-out" from here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/examples_spindle.html so it should be spelld correctly......
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[12:15:40] <archivist> seltecc, that was 2.4, what version are you running
[12:21:42] <archivist> and is the port configured as output
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[12:31:57] <seltecc> I am running 2.6 and getting a 3V out of my relay. uestion is if I can tell in the HAL-file to put out a 5v signal...?
[12:32:54] <archivist> your relay output should be isolated from any voltage
[12:34:00] <seltecc> meaning I can not influence it?
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[12:34:11] <archivist> the parallel port voltages are often not a full 5v they can be open collector relying on pull up resistors
[12:35:28] <seltecc> ok...
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[12:36:20] <archivist> the breakout boards are not alwayse designed correctly for all parallel port implementations, may need to add/modify pull up resistors
[12:42:15] <seltecc> pull up resistors meaning a full circuit...right, cause I want to run an external relay to switch a laser on and of....
[12:43:56] <archivist> pull up resistors are a source of current, usually used in logic circuits
[12:44:30] <archivist> the break out board should have a switching device for the relay
[12:46:18] <Swapper> seltecc: what volatage are you feeding the breakout board with ?
[12:46:33] <Swapper> and what voltage is the relay ?
[12:46:39] <seltecc> 5 V usb
[12:47:04] <Swapper> ok and it is set to power the output lines from the USB 5v ?
[12:47:39] <seltecc> do you mean a hardware switch?
[12:47:41] <archivist> check for a series resistor between pin 9 and the driver transistor, that is fed by the port pull up
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[12:48:09] <archivist> often it is not low enough to drive properly
[12:48:22] <Swapper> seltecc: some BOB cards have a jumper for driving the board isolated from the host computer
[12:48:32] <archivist> add a pull up pin9 to 5v
[12:48:40] <Swapper> so the power on the output pins comes from the cnc box powersorce
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[12:49:38] <seltecc> swapper: yes I have the option to run extarnal power supply
[12:50:31] <archivist> usb is external to some extent, that should be good enough
[12:50:36] <Swapper> ok and that is also 5v?
[12:50:51] <Swapper> so u have dual power feeds
[12:50:52] <seltecc> yeah
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[12:51:36] <seltecc> yes, as an option but now just usb...
[12:52:49] <archivist> power supply is a red herring, the drive current is the thing to watch, not reaching 5v is not a problem as long as the relay switches on
[12:53:38] <seltecc> this is my board : http://softsolder.com/2013/02/17/anonymous-5-axis-parallel-port-breakout-board-pinout/
[12:55:40] <seltecc> yes it´s just working fine with all 5 axis....having just probl. with the relay
[12:55:45] <archivist> I have used a similar one, they are not that well designed
[12:56:12] <Swapper> and the relay is 5v?
[12:56:28] <Swapper> and it functions if you pull straight 5v to it ?
[12:56:34] <seltecc> what downside have you experienced with it?
[12:56:52] <archivist> the problem is the switching threshold of the driving device
[12:56:54] <seltecc> I am just happy with it....
[12:57:27] <seltecc> yes relay is for 5 v
[12:58:01] <archivist> they have series resistors to the optos in a driver which the driver also has in a leadshine
[12:58:35] <Swapper> and you only got 3v out when putting the pin high ?
[12:58:36] <archivist> you end up with interface problems to some stepper drivers
[12:58:58] <archivist> normal for a pull up
[12:59:52] <archivist> the pins are only pulled high with resistors, not active high output
[13:00:31] <seltecc> yes but constant and not on off until now.... for test purposes I juse the stepconf and have not figured out what to select for pin 9
[13:01:55] <seltecc> My board came along with the drivers(TB1H) and they work just fine
[13:01:59] <Swapper> i think you can use stepconf to configure spindle on ?
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[13:03:58] <seltecc> with spindle pwm at pin 9 I get constant 3V
[13:04:56] <Swapper> you cant have pwm and a relay
[13:05:02] <Swapper> only on off
[13:05:57] <seltecc> with external relay?
[13:05:58] <_methods> with SSR you can approximate pwm
[13:05:59] <Swapper> if u pwm the output the voltage on a normal DMM will probably show 3v if your not at 100%
[13:06:26] <Swapper> seltecc: what spindle do you have ?
[13:06:30] <Swapper> and how do you drive it
[13:07:18] <seltecc> Laser and relay that swicvhes high power when applied 5v
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[13:08:25] <seltecc> no spindel as of now, just to get out the desired signals I choose pwm
[13:10:30] <Swapper> if its a mecanical relay you cant use pwm
[13:10:41] <Swapper> on off and cw rotation
[13:10:59] <Swapper> on off only realy
[13:10:59] <seltecc> aha, ok
[13:11:23] <Swapper> for pwm you need a motor controller that can take the input
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[13:12:04] <seltecc> choose cw in stepconf will make on off signal...?
[13:13:29] <Swapper> i guess so (havent run stepconf only the otherone)
[13:13:36] <Swapper> otherone
[13:13:41] <Swapper> crap, sorry
[13:16:08] <Swapper> net spindle-fwd motion.spindle-forward => parport.0.pin-16-out
[13:16:20] <Swapper> check if it adds that to the conf
[13:16:32] <Swapper> when you have done the stepconf
[13:16:41] <Swapper> or similar
[13:16:45] <Swapper> for pin 9
[13:17:52] <Swapper> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html
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[13:24:30] <seltecc> adding "net spindle-fwd motion.spindle-forward => parport.0.pin-16-out" to the HAL-File gives an error, just like before when i did it...
[13:25:26] <seltecc> I changed pin 16 to 9
[13:25:34] <archivist> which pin is it complaining about though
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[13:28:07] <seltecc> yes pin 9
[13:29:18] <Swapper> use stepconf for it
[13:29:22] <Swapper> and look at the conf after
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[13:32:29] <seltecc> sorry my mistake
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[13:33:18] <seltecc> adding to the hal-file must erase the other link
[13:34:30] <archivist> stepconf rewrites from its memory and over writes any hand edits (a bug in my opinion)
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[13:56:56] <seltecc> manny thanks to archivist and swapper bye for now ....have to go......
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[14:53:25] <PetefromTn_> morning
[14:54:22] <archivist> its afternoon coffee time!
[14:54:35] <PetefromTn_> not here it isn't
[14:54:39] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[14:56:54] <PetefromTn_> well cleaned up the whole house, got rid of some yard trash last night in anticipation of someone coming to look at my house.....just got a call telling me they are cancelling. FRUSTRATING!!
[14:57:08] <PetefromTn_> They are apparently going to come see it on Friday morning instead.
[14:58:14] <Swapper> real frustrating when prepping for that stuff
[14:58:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah man
[14:58:34] <Swapper> now you have to keep it clean til friday :)
[14:59:01] <PetefromTn_> been trying to fix up the house for awhile now and sometimes we have stuff sorta under construction and we have to tidy that all up for the visit too which takes some time
[14:59:21] <PetefromTn_> our downstairs bathroom is getting new tile floors so it is kind of apart right now.
[14:59:37] <PetefromTn_> that is all in our ad so people know this in advance unless they cannot read.
[14:59:52] <PetefromTn_> but yeah we will be needing to keep it clean until friday morning.
[15:00:05] <PetefromTn_> with little kids that is NOT exactly easy LOL
[15:01:14] <Swapper> can imagine tha t
[15:01:24] <archivist> the spotless tidy house is a rarity
[15:01:32] <Swapper> hehe
[15:02:09] <PetefromTn_> yup
[15:02:26] <PetefromTn_> the more we get done on the house tho the easier that has become thankfully.
[15:02:39] <archivist> I have seen them when out fixing TVs
[15:03:21] <Swapper> big tvs ? :)
[15:03:28] <Swapper> maybe got help keeping cleean
[15:04:25] <PetefromTn_> well at least the lady was nice enough to call to let us know they could not make it.
[15:04:43] <PetefromTn_> We have had a couple times that people called and never showed up, never called back...
[15:04:56] <archivist> just shows they have no interests or hobbies, only keeping up appearances
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[15:05:53] <PetefromTn_> she actually called kind of early too so I don
[15:06:01] <PetefromTn_> don't spend the day waiting around
[15:06:42] <PetefromTn_> Damn just watched the last episode of Deep space nine on Netflix....Hate when you get to the last episode of a series it is like the fun is over.
[15:07:05] <PetefromTn_> Guess it is time to start the Star Trek The next Generation series! LOL
[15:09:55] <Swapper> oh thats real good series :)
[15:11:17] <PetefromTn_> yeah I like Star Trek..
[15:13:02] <Swapper> hey, maybe u know, how do you find center of a workpice. In mach3 (when i ran that) there where a function to do math in the position dialogs
[15:13:15] <Swapper> then one could devide the value by 2
[15:13:20] <Swapper> for instance
[15:13:26] <cradek> in AXIS you can type any expression in the touch-off dialogs
[15:13:30] <jdh> Pete: no realtor?
[15:13:43] <cradek> if you want to divide a number by two, type number/2
[15:13:56] <PetefromTn_> nope no realtor
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[15:14:03] <PetefromTn_> we had listed it with a realtor
[15:14:16] <PetefromTn_> but we got almost NO response from that.
[15:14:30] <PetefromTn_> I just have it listed on Craigslist and a free realty sight
[15:14:37] <PetefromTn_> and get a lot more calls and interest.
[15:14:47] <jdh> I'd expect a lot of no-shows, time-wasters, etc then.
[15:14:53] <PetefromTn_> sure
[15:15:04] <PetefromTn_> but I also expect to NOT have to pay 7%
[15:15:07] <jdh> they aren't seriously looking and won't take you seriously either.
[15:15:24] <PetefromTn_> I disagree completely with that statement
[15:15:50] <PetefromTn_> even when we had it listed with realtors we had no shows
[15:16:05] <jdh> bad realtor, pricing, timing.
[15:16:22] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[15:16:30] <jdh> and buyers with no realtor will expect to get teh 7% off
[15:16:47] <PetefromTn_> shit buyers with or without realtors expect that...
[15:17:00] <Swapper> cradek: any hints on how to find center on a workpice, i touch off the left of the workpice with a 6mm pin. then i zero and to the math on the side and move it to center (calculated with the radius of the endmill and pin)
[15:17:14] <jdh> good realtors will never let shit buyers make it far enough to waste your time
[15:17:15] <PetefromTn_> as I said we had it listed with a realtor for six months
[15:17:33] <PetefromTn_> and got almost no responses and lots of no shows...
[15:18:12] <PetefromTn_> having shown the house myself quite a few times now I feel confident when I say that most of the people who came to see it were seriously looking to buy a house.
[15:18:21] <PetefromTn_> just did not like ours for whatever reason
[15:18:55] <PetefromTn_> a lot of it has to do with the fact that it needs work inside to be truly finished.
[15:19:15] <PetefromTn_> most people don't want to mess with that
[15:19:31] <jdh> if tehy do, they want a lot of $$ off.
[15:19:39] <PetefromTn_> I get calls and letters from realtors every day wanting to sell my house.
[15:19:48] <jdh> and if they know you have no realtor, they want the 7% off
[15:19:55] <PetefromTn_> we are willing to do that for the right deal/work combination
[15:20:17] <PetefromTn_> believe me when I tell you we are motivated to sell but we are not going to give our house away.
[15:20:35] <jdh> I find the need for realtors distateful, but I'd still do it.
[15:20:51] <jdh> kind of like organized crime
[15:20:53] <PetefromTn_> In the mean time we are quite comfortable here and if it sells it sells.
[15:21:05] <PetefromTn_> honestly I have a distaste for realtors.
[15:21:36] <PetefromTn_> I cannot understand how they can get away with taking 6-7% of the sale price for just showing your house here and there.... I mean what a racket!
[15:21:58] <Swapper> Dont u have a big VMC ? then you have to move it all ?
[15:22:03] <PetefromTn_> sure
[15:22:04] <jdh> that agent usually only gets 3%
[15:22:15] <PetefromTn_> oh ONLY 3%
[15:22:42] <Swapper> Are you having a new place in mind allready or are you going to look when you get sold ?
[15:22:47] <PetefromTn_> Maybe I should become a realtor
[15:23:07] <PetefromTn_> we are going to move back to Port Saint Lucie florida somewhere
[15:23:22] <PetefromTn_> have lots of friends and family there.
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[15:23:53] <PetefromTn_> also my two best and most loyal friends since childhood live there.
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[15:25:25] <crash112> PCW: did you get around to adding those 7i76E cards to the webstore? I hope not, otherwise someone has bought them out already
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[15:26:42] <crash112> anyone here had any experiance with linuxcnc running on xenomai?
[15:26:50] <JT-Shop> you can call and place an order you know
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[15:27:27] <crash112> JT-Shop: Was trying to avoid it, it is 11:30pm here and ppl are sleeping
[15:27:30] <cradek> linuxcnc currently runs on rtai and linux-rt
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[15:28:38] <crash112> cradek: unless I am mistaken, some of the mesa hardware is current;y only (not) supported on xenomai
[15:28:53] <cradek> I think you are probably mistaken
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[15:29:19] <cradek> give more details about what hardware you're asking about?
[15:29:39] <cradek> there are two PCWs here and one of them probably has the answer
[15:30:01] <crash112> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mesa7i80_Driver_For_Linuxcnc_On_Xenomai
[15:30:17] <crash112> but actually the 7i76E card
[15:30:20] <PetefromTn_> really? I did not know there are two PCW's...
[15:30:35] <crash112> PetefromTn_: Would be good having two of them
[15:30:55] <PetefromTn_> hell I was pretty happy just having one hehe
[15:30:58] <cradek> that wiki page is really out of date
[15:31:36] <crash112> agreed, however the 7i80/7i76E both need realtime ethernet
[15:32:18] <crash112> as far as I know linux-rt doesn't have real time ethernet
[15:32:30] <crash112> I'm not usre about RTAI
[15:32:32] <cradek> yes I think people are running those on linux-rt successfully
[15:33:27] <crash112> RTAI uses RTnet
[15:33:44] <crash112> as does xenomai
[15:33:59] <crash112> so maybe RTAI will work
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[15:34:27] <JT-Shop> crash112, might be a bit of long distance involved too
[15:34:58] <ssi> morn
[15:35:23] <ssi> jdh: are you still looking for a g0602?
[15:35:43] <jdh> I'll look for anything cheap
[15:35:55] <jdh> even things I have no need for.
[15:35:57] <ssi> dan wants to get rid of his
[15:36:02] <jdh> where is dan?
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[15:36:12] <ssi> colocated with me, now :P
[15:36:14] <ssi> south of atlanta
[15:36:29] <jdh> still stock? how much?
[15:36:49] <ssi> it's stock but the stock motor died within like 1hr of running it
[15:36:55] <ssi> and it comes with a leeson 3ph and vfd
[15:36:58] <jdh> heh
[15:36:59] <ssi> I think 1200
[15:37:25] <jdh> vs. $1250 new
[15:37:38] <ssi> 1250 new doesn't get you a good motor and vfd
[15:38:01] <jdh> nope. but it's also used chinese at that point.
[15:38:12] <ssi> ok never mind
[15:38:15] <ssi> I mostly knew better
[15:38:30] <jdh> :)
[15:38:43] <jdh> 10:35 < jdh> I'll look for anything cheap
[15:38:48] <pcw_home> crash112: the 7I80/7I76e/7I92 are supported with the uspace version of linuxcnc with a Preemt-RT kernel
[15:40:03] <crash112> great, now if I could only buy one ;)
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[15:43:56] <skunkworks> linuxcnc 2.7V+
[15:44:04] <pcw_home> Wheezy has a stock preempt-rt kernel so all that needed can be added with apt-get from debian and buildbot packages
[15:44:47] <pcw_home> Yes 2.7 |>
[15:45:38] <jdh> ssi: leeson 1.5hp + vfd is $211
[15:45:43] <cox> mozmck: Smartscope is on its way, have gotten tracking number
[15:46:24] <mozmck> cox: neat! It will be interesting to hear how well it works.
[15:46:25] <ssi> I won't offend you by offering you a paltry 25% discount ever again, don't worry
[15:47:54] <cox> mozmck: If you have any tests you want me to do, I will try to run them
[15:48:59] <mozmck> cox: thanks, but not really. just curious how well the software will work, and if it looks like it can handle the speeds advertised.
[15:51:11] <mozmck> oh, yeah, that is the one that uses Mono/C#. Not wild about that.
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[15:54:29] <cox> I know, but the core and hardware is supposed to be floss and mono free
[15:59:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.gizmag.com/frictionless-superconductor-magnetic-levitating-gear-system/35005/
[16:00:11] <_methods> all you need is a -200 transmission case
[16:00:20] <_methods> -200deg
[16:00:32] <_methods> and it's off to the races
[16:00:33] <cox> I discovered http://redpitaya.com/ after i ordered the smartscope. Looks nice
[16:01:27] <_methods> wow that's cool
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[16:37:24] <mozmck> how easy is it to completely change the look of gmoccapy?
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[16:38:51] <JT-Shop> my guess is open the glade file and rearrange as you wish just don't delete anything
[16:39:59] <mozmck> gmoccapy.glade I guess?
[16:40:40] <mozmck> I guess I could create new graphics as well...
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[16:52:10] <mozmck> So what is better about gmoccapy than gscreen? Looks like gmoccapy uses a lot of gscreen code.
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[16:57:11] <JT-Shop> I think gmoccapy is built on gscreen
[16:57:53] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo I got my new LED 5050 300 light strip kit today. Now I can try to machine that edge lit sign!! hehe
[16:58:31] <mozmck> JT-Shop: that's sort of what it looks like, but what is better about gmoccapy then?
[16:59:03] <PetefromTn_> what an easy way to convert a .pdf to a .dxf?
[16:59:12] <_methods> inkscape
[16:59:21] <PetefromTn_> oh yeah
[16:59:23] <PetefromTn_> I have that
[16:59:24] <archivist> start again :)
[16:59:41] <archivist> pdf is such a broken standard
[16:59:49] <skunkworks> mozmck, my only impression is that gmoccapy tries to do everthing in the gui..
[16:59:59] <JT-Shop> mozmck, I don't use either of them so I have no idea
[17:00:08] <mozmck> heh, ok!
[17:00:09] <PetefromTn_> well that is what the engineer sent me for a file type LOL
[17:00:26] <skunkworks> 'engineer'...
[17:00:32] <_methods> exactly
[17:00:41] * JT-Shop wonders why Gene has to do things in such a complicated way
[17:00:42] <PetefromTn_> yup engineer..
[17:01:02] <PetefromTn_> who is gene?
[17:01:02] <_methods> worlds most complicated arc
[17:01:07] <crash112> PetefromTn_: pstoedit
[17:01:13] <_methods> the mailing list insano
[17:01:24] <ssi> lul
[17:01:27] <PetefromTn_> you mean Gene from the mailing list LOL
[17:01:37] <archivist> he watches you here too
[17:01:58] <PetefromTn_> must get a dozen emails a day from that guy on the list heh
[17:02:01] <_methods> perfect example of the problem with software
[17:02:15] <_methods> software designers
[17:02:44] <_methods> they all want to make their own language and reinvent the wheel
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[17:08:10] <PetefromTn_> hey thats pretty cool how inkscape installed that .dxf it is red dimensions and text with white entities now I can maybe work with it after I check dimensions.
[17:10:24] <ssi> I bought a small heat treat furnace yesterday
[17:10:30] <ssi> looking forward to playing with that
[17:10:33] <ssi> need to find a rockwell tester
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[17:55:41] <jdh> there was an auction that had one a few weeks ago.
[17:57:03] <Jymmm> Amazon is pissing me off. I have $50 inthe cart and STILL need $13 for free shipping
[17:57:39] <Rab> Jymmm, are all the products you added eligible for free shipping?
[17:57:50] <Jymmm> Rab: fuck no
[17:58:33] <roycroft> a lot of amazon merchants do their own shipping
[17:58:41] <jdh> I still have prime from last xmas
[17:58:42] <Jymmm> But dont play this ELIGIBLE crap, make it $35 for free shipping, not trying to get everyone to sign up for PRIME
[17:58:49] <roycroft> it's not that at all
[17:58:57] <roycroft> anything shipped by amazon counts towards free shipping
[17:58:58] <ssi> they show up on ebay a lot, but they're fairly expensive and they're heavy, so shipping them is an issue
[17:59:00] <Rab> Jymmm, you realize that even if you add $35 worth of free shipping product, the ineligible items still require the shipping fee?
[17:59:02] <ssi> need to find one fairly locally
[17:59:13] <jdh> I think this one was in charlotte
[17:59:19] <jdh> cltauctions anyway
[17:59:22] <roycroft> some amazon merchants have amazon stock and ship their product
[17:59:27] <roycroft> and that counts towards free shipping
[17:59:29] <ssi> I'd drive to charlotte
[17:59:32] <Jymmm> Rab: Yep, and they al have free shipping except the $20 item from amazon
[17:59:36] <ssi> I drove to chattanooga yesterday for the furnace
[17:59:50] <roycroft> jymmm: that's the vendor's own policy to offer free shipping
[17:59:52] <Rab> Jymmm, which item?
[18:00:12] <roycroft> it will say "fulfillment by amazon" if amazon ship it
[18:00:18] <Jymmm> roycroft: Yes, I know this.
[18:00:20] <roycroft> and it will count towards free shipping if it says that
[18:01:12] <Jymmm> roycroft: Yes, I know all of this.
[18:01:49] <Jymmm> But after they went to the $35/free shipping, it makes it much harder to get to the ELIGABLE point
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[18:03:56] <Jymmm> Now, when I get get to the $35 of ELIGABLE products, I just remove the fulfilled by amazon ones, and just get the free shipping from seller items and save the rest till later
[18:04:09] <Jymmm> can't get*
[18:04:14] <jdh> heh
[18:04:44] <ssi> before I got prime, I freakin HATED amazon because of that crap
[18:04:48] <ssi> but with prime, it's a joy
[18:05:00] <ssi> I used ot bitch incessantly about their stupid extortion fee
[18:05:02] <Jymmm> But it's Christmas, and not easy to do that.
[18:06:29] <jdh> I like ordering a single o-ring and having them ship it to me 2day
[18:06:40] <Jymmm> lol
[18:06:49] <jdh> big orings, but still.
[18:06:57] <jdh> wrong size... no problem, order another one.
[18:07:15] <Rab> I just hate how they sit on items for a week before free-shipping them. And how their shipping has turned into some race-to-the-bottom axis of evil where USPS pretends to be UPS, so the tracking has gotten significantly worse.
[18:07:36] <jdh> heh... that ups->usps thing just blows.
[18:07:46] <jdh> and the fedex->usps version
[18:07:56] <Rab> yep
[18:08:28] <Rab> These days I find eBay has most of the same vendors, with free shipping and better prices.
[18:08:30] <Jymmm> I like USPS direct. They have tracing now.
[18:08:57] <Rab> Their tracking is better than it was, but it still has a lot of latency.
[18:09:19] <Jymmm> I shipped a pkg Saturday 6pm and it arrived Monday.
[18:10:25] <Jymmm> Priority mail under $6 to ship.
[18:10:27] <Rab> Before, often no tracking information would appear until after the package was actually delivered.
[18:10:46] <Rab> Yeah, the service itself is a good deal for the price.
[18:10:48] <Jymmm> there never was tracking before, it was delivery confirmation.
[18:10:59] <Jymmm> they now have tracking.
[18:11:11] <Jymmm> and $50 insurance too.
[18:12:17] <Jymmm> So, how much is prime?
[18:12:29] <ssi> used to be 70
[18:12:32] <ssi> I think it's 100 now
[18:13:21] <Jymmm> Amazon Prime is just $99/year
[18:13:24] <Rab> They seem to have a lot of promotions...they're offering it to me for $49/yr right now.
[18:13:48] <ssi> if you can get it for 49, it's WORTH IT
[18:13:52] <Rab> If you have a .edu email address, or want to be an Amazon Mom, you can get it very cheaply.
[18:13:52] <Jymmm> bastards! lol
[18:14:45] <Rab> ssi, I don't order that much from Amazon, and I rarely need anything faster than the 7-10 day shipping speed. I don't think I would amortize the $49.
[18:15:24] <ssi> maybe not
[18:15:27] <ssi> I use the shit out of it
[18:15:34] <ssi> especially now that I live in a place without stores
[18:16:08] <ssi> plus stuff like, my mom is taking care of my dogs, and I set up an amazon subscription that automatically delivers two bags of dog food to her house in florida every month
[18:16:14] <ssi> and they give me a 5% discount for the subscription
[18:16:14] <Jymmm> what is it compared to netflix quality/selection wise?
[18:16:22] <ssi> similar
[18:16:50] <ssi> I dunno if they have the same breadth of bottom-of-the-barrel crap as netflix, but the stuff you're likely to actually want to watch is similar
[18:16:58] <ssi> I haven't canceled my netflix account but I imagine I could
[18:17:19] <ssi> in the past I haven't cause I mostly watch netflix on appletv, and there's no amazon video app for appletv, but I got a ps4 last week and I can do amazon video on that
[18:17:26] <ssi> so I may consider dropping nutflx
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[18:17:36] <Rab> http://www.amazon.com/gp/student/signup/info
[18:17:43] <Rab> Free for 6 months!
[18:18:25] <Rab> Free for 1 month: http://www.amazon.com/gp/mom/signup
[18:18:48] <Rab> You do have to cancel after the trial period, or they start billing you.
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[18:21:28] <Jymmm> movies and shows on Amazon Prime "move" between being "free" streaming content and paid content. In other words, if I put a Prime movie on my watchlist (a list of movies to see later), it may change from free to paid
[18:21:50] <Jymmm> Thats fucked up
[18:21:54] <Jymmm> http://www.tomsguide.com/us/netflix-amazon-face-off,news-17838.html
[18:22:14] <SpeedEvil> Do you have problems with bent shafts in your machinery?
[18:22:15] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dx.com/p/gm12-n20-08220-210-20y-diy-dc-6v-80rpm-bending-shaft-gear-motor-speed-reducer-363473
[18:22:20] <SpeedEvil> no more! Buy them pre-bent
[18:22:45] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil++
[18:23:28] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I suspect that there was a specific purpose for that =)
[18:23:44] <Jymmm> especially since there is a CAD drawing
[18:24:28] <Jymmm> 6V, ah 2x D Batteries =)
[18:25:12] <Jymmm> Small, Medium, Large, and OH MY GAWD!
[18:25:37] <Rab> I'm not paying $7.44 without seeing a specification for runout.
[18:25:53] <Jymmm> Rab: Ask your wife/gf.
[18:27:00] <Jymmm> They're overruns from vibrators =)
[18:27:49] <Jymmm> Well, lets HOPE theyre overruns and not "returns"
[18:27:53] <PetefromTn_> I hope amazon prime TV gets better and better maybe it will force Netflix to step up and get more and newer content ;)
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[18:39:02] <roycroft> speaking of batteries, and amazon, have any of you tried the amazon branded eneloop clones?
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[18:46:51] <PetefromTn_> well I tore apart that old air handler
[18:46:52] <ssi> no, but I should
[18:46:53] <ssi> I love eneloops
[18:47:04] <PetefromTn_> removed the squirrel cage fan
[18:47:19] <PetefromTn_> should make for a nice shop fan/ air circulator
[18:47:37] <PetefromTn_> was looking at the case and the sheetmetal is kinda thick on it.
[18:47:52] <PetefromTn_> might be able to cut it up and tig weld it into a cabinet for my pendant for the lathe
[18:48:13] <roycroft> the amazon branded ones are a little cheaper
[18:48:30] <roycroft> i should get a pack of 4 and see how they work
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[18:48:35] <ssi> I bought some 20ga steel to make the cabinet for my cinci
[18:48:51] <ssi> I need to cad it up, plasma cut it, bend it, and spot weld it
[18:48:59] <ssi> but I'm a good ways off from being able to do that
[18:49:00] <PetefromTn_> I thought it already had one?
[18:49:08] <ssi> it does but I don't like the size and shape
[18:49:17] <ssi> oh also I may have to move my shop again soon
[18:49:27] <PetefromTn_> I would probably just cut that and make it smaller
[18:49:37] <Connor> ssi: Why would you have to move it ?
[18:49:38] <ssi> it's an option
[18:49:51] <ssi> Connor: there's a big box hangar up for rent with an apartment in it
[18:49:59] <ssi> I had thought about it, but wasn't really considering it seriously
[18:50:00] <Connor> AH.
[18:50:13] <Connor> Until the fire eh?
[18:50:13] <ssi> but there's a guy here with a flight school who wants my hangars, and he's negotiating the price on the other one down for me and will help me move
[18:50:22] <ssi> no, recently I mean
[18:50:29] <ssi> they want $1500 for it, which is too much
[18:50:29] <Connor> oh.
[18:50:35] <ssi> if I can get it for 1300 I will probably do it
[18:50:37] <ssi> it's like 90x90
[18:50:48] <Connor> How much room compared to what you have currently ?
[18:50:57] <ssi> the back 20' depth x 90' width is a 2 story building, and the top half is an apartment, bottom half offices
[18:51:08] <ssi> and the landlords who are in the toher half of the building use nthe offices
[18:51:10] <ssi> which is also not ideal
[18:51:19] <ssi> it may be as much as twice as much space as I have now
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[18:51:34] <ssi> and I currently pay $850/mo
[18:51:50] <Connor> + rent on the apartment?
[18:51:56] <ssi> correct
[18:52:03] <ssi> but I'm only paying $350/mo for rent
[18:52:32] <Connor> okay. so current is 20' x 90' ?
[18:53:05] <ssi> no, currently I have three T hangars
[18:53:14] <ssi> which are 32x47, but not rectangular
[18:53:16] <Connor> okay. right. sorry.
[18:53:44] <ssi> they're about 1000sqft apiece I think?
[18:54:07] <ssi> plus I have an end office, which is another 600sqft or so
[18:54:13] <ssi> so I have maybe 3600-4200sqft
[18:54:31] <ssi> the new hangar I think is about 8100sqft empty
[18:54:43] <ssi> but with the apartment is more like 6300sqft of shop space
[18:54:50] <ssi> and then 1800sqft of apartment
[18:55:08] <Connor> That's more space than my house. my house is 1300sqft
[18:55:15] <ssi> yeah I know :P
[18:55:21] <ssi> my houes is 1350sqft
[18:55:27] <ssi> plus another 1200sqft of garage/basement
[18:55:39] <Connor> Yea, I wish I had that. :(
[18:56:00] <ssi> well the bitch of it is that airplanes take up a TON of space
[18:56:11] <ssi> I need to be able to put three airplanes and my whole shop in that 6300sqft
[18:56:14] <ssi> which I think will be fine
[18:56:23] <ssi> I can nest them a lot better in the box hangar
[18:56:44] <Connor> can you fold the wings or anything? P)
[18:56:55] <ssi> heh no
[18:57:07] <SpeedEvil> ssi: parachute+engine abominations?
[18:57:09] <Connor> I know they're a few small planes you can do that with.
[18:57:25] <ssi> SpeedEvil: eh? no
[18:57:34] <ssi> sheetmetal+engine abominations mostly :P
[18:58:01] <ssi> powered parachutes don't take up much space at all
[18:58:05] <SpeedEvil> exactly
[18:58:15] <ssi> but they're also not airplanes :)
[18:58:18] <PetefromTn_> I like those things
[18:58:18] <SpeedEvil> they also, regrettably suck harder than a sucky thing
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[19:00:00] <ssi> I have a cherokee 140, an RV-7, and a pitts S1
[19:00:07] <ssi> the RV and the pitts are pretty small
[19:00:14] <ssi> the cherokee's not remarkably small
[19:00:21] <ssi> and I may trade it for an apache, which is much less small
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[19:01:11] <SpeedEvil> I assume not the ah-1
[19:01:22] <ssi> heh no
[19:01:30] <ssi> pa-23
[19:01:39] <SpeedEvil> ah-64, even
[19:01:42] * SpeedEvil was confused
[19:02:01] <SpeedEvil> helicopters have way too many moving parts
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[19:02:27] <ssi> they have way too many zeroes in their price tag
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[19:04:36] <Connor> Okay. Question on my wiring setup. Disable Stepper PSU (or engage the inhibit for them) on machine power (soft switch in linuxCNC). Same question for E-Stop. My thinking is.. on machine power.. I wuold have to re home if I just hit machine power.. which happens sometimes..
[19:05:02] <SpeedEvil> I was designing a silly hexacopter the other day
[19:05:14] <SpeedEvil> 6*20000hp turboshaft engines, ... :)
[19:05:15] <Connor> Same with E-Stop since I don't have encoders. I do have a master power switch now.. so.. I can kill the stepper PSU if I'm going to walk away for a long time and don't want to shutdown the PC
[19:05:31] <ssi> Connor: I typically do psu power tied to estop, and drive enables tied to machine enable
[19:05:50] <Connor> But, that's on a servo system yes ?
[19:05:52] <ssi> Connor: and my laser machine was set up as volatile home, so it forced a rehome if machine-enable dropped
[19:05:56] <ssi> no, that was stepper too
[19:06:10] <ssi> I had to do that because the gantry was autosquaring, and it held some tension when square
[19:06:19] <ssi> if the drives dropped, the gantry would fall out of square a fair bit
[19:06:35] <Connor> My concern is.. Z falling..
[19:06:41] <Connor> since I have no break.
[19:07:02] <ssi> yeah that's a bit of a problem
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[19:07:06] <Connor> more like creeping.. than falling..
[19:07:11] <ssi> you need to be able to disable the Z drive
[19:07:20] <ssi> which means the head will fall no matter what unless you have a brake
[19:07:41] <Connor> why do I need to disable the Z?
[19:08:08] <Connor> it's not like a servo where you can get a run-away condition..
[19:08:24] <ssi> the whole point of an estop is to remove power to the drives
[19:08:29] <ssi> I guess you don't NEED to, but I certainly would
[19:09:18] <Connor> The ONLY reason I could think of.. is a short...
[19:09:29] <pcw_home> I have seen step drives runaway with bad input levels where noise coupled into the step input
[19:09:33] <roycroft> if you take your machine up to the iss you won't have to worry about the z falling
[19:10:39] <Connor> maybe just E-Stop on PSU and nothing on machine on/off having to re-home sucked.
[19:10:40] <roycroft> but with our new privatized rockets blowing up and the russians trying to rekindle the cold war i'm not sure i would want to make that trip right now
[19:11:42] <pcw_home> Yeah thats a disadvantage of disabling standard step drives, position loss
[19:12:00] <Connor> yea. So, no disable except on E-stop.
[19:12:31] <Connor> Mine have 1/2 amp current on idle..
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[20:27:41] <bobo_> bobo is know as bobo
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[20:35:20] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Got my spot drills and the ball nose endmills in just now.
[20:36:44] <PetefromTn_> nice
[20:38:16] <zeeshan> someone finish my cnc controller
[20:38:17] <zeeshan> :{
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[20:39:46] <Connor> PetefromTn_: OKay, so the 1/2 spot drill was drop shipped.. from Morse Cutting Tools... they have a site.. and the tool on the site.. for $48.91.. but from Maritool it was $29.66 *boggle*
[20:41:32] <PetefromTn_> not surprised
[20:41:45] <PetefromTn_> some places really mark schtuff up
[20:42:21] <Connor> Yea.. but, they supply it to Maritool.. I guess they don't like selling to end users huh ?
[20:42:43] <unfy> prolly a volume / agreement thing.
[20:42:54] <PetefromTn_> they must have an agreement as said
[20:42:57] <Connor> What is the NC mean for NC Spot Drilling ??
[20:43:07] <jdh> No Clue
[20:43:17] <Connor> Ideal for close tolerance NC spotting operations
[20:43:17] <unfy> har har har
[20:43:20] <PetefromTn_> I have had nothing but good results from all of the maritool cutters I bought
[20:43:25] <Connor> jdh: *smake*
[20:43:32] <jdh> numerical control
[20:43:34] <PetefromTn_> I would imagine that means numerically controlled
[20:43:36] <jdh> just a guess
[20:44:12] <_methods> that is what it means
[20:44:47] <Connor> I wonder why it makes a diff vs using it in a manual mill....
[20:45:37] <zeeshan> prolly the tool length is more precisely controlled
[20:45:48] <PetefromTn_> they are probably differentiating between a machine operated spot drill and a hand operated drill possibly.
[20:45:52] <_methods> diff drill geometry
[20:46:51] <PetefromTn_> I know they work really nice in the CNC
[20:47:12] <PetefromTn_> I need to get a larger one than I have here
[20:51:31] <unfy> "120 Point Designed for accurate spotting on NC Machines."
[20:52:00] <Connor> I got the 1/2 90, and 3/8 120.. I'll use the 3/8 120 for my bits.. as they 118.. the 90 will be good for chamfer and other things.. from what I read.. you want the spotting drill to be slightly more angled than the dill bit..
[20:52:09] <unfy> which goes with 'numeric control'. jdh++
[20:52:49] <unfy> see also: http://www.maford.com/Products/Index.aspx?cell=MiscDrill
[21:12:32] <jdh> http://imgur.com/gallery/JPt4jMw
[21:13:08] <bobo_> zeeshan: what are your plans for the cnc mills lub oiling pump cycling ?
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[21:33:26] <unfy> i can't find it at the moment with limited searhing, but there was a YT video of someone who made something akin to the first machine in the gif
[21:34:11] <unfy> a conveyor was slowly moving skittles or whatever across the path of a machine. the machine sorted the candy by color in rows along conveyor and they fell into slots
[21:35:39] <unfy> which, if you take something like opencv and mix it with a cnc, you get your sorter etc :D
[21:39:33] <unfy> might be based kinda off of the "emc2 hexapod - first moves" video on yt
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[22:03:05] <zeeshan> bobo huh
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[22:17:54] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:21:18] <unfy> i've seen folks using cat5/cat6 for motor driver wires. are they doubling up / using pairs for motor hookup ? 22ga cat6 (thicker than cat5) looks to be able to handle ~2amp... which seems to bu pushing it
[22:21:37] <unfy> s/bu/be/
[22:21:40] <Connor> unfy: It is.. and it's not a good idea.
[22:21:53] <unfy> didn't think so :D
[22:22:05] <Connor> I use 18 gauge standard wire typically used in security.
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[22:23:01] <unfy> (now that i've got all the electronics, am starting to debate the controller enclosure and wiring.... hence the question)
[22:23:49] <Connor> I use the 4 pin CB style connectors.. some say they're not rated for it.. but.. lots of people have used them and no issues.
[22:24:21] <zeeshan> the pins on the cb connectors
[22:24:28] <zeeshan> look like they can handle 8amps
[22:24:28] <zeeshan> :P
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[22:25:50] <unfy> 18-5 thermostat wire doesn't seem too bad
[22:25:59] <zeeshan> give me some VIEWS!!!
[22:26:00] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0fMyUXDMV0
[22:26:11] <Connor> 18-5 Is that solid or stranded ?
[22:26:22] <Connor> I used 18-4 shielded.
[22:26:23] <unfy> no views, fear.
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[22:26:50] <zeeshan> haha
[22:26:54] <zeeshan> i just put it up
[22:27:02] <unfy> 18-5 stranded. i can't see shielding being really important ? it's just voltage, not logic signalling ?
[22:27:55] <Connor> no, but, it can interfere with signaling.. and no need for the 5th conductor unless your steppers need it.
[22:28:24] <zeeshan> unfy: ppl make it a big deal
[22:28:34] <zeeshan> and i can see why
[22:28:40] <unfy> been a fan of bipolars for some time
[22:28:43] <zeeshan> most of the time your limit switch wiring is a bit annoying to shield :P
[22:29:17] <unfy> ok, shielding to help with causing interfernce - not receiving it... ok... i can see that :D
[22:29:38] <Connor> Bingo! :) I get mine at home depot..
[22:29:45] <Connor> not sure if you have one..
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[22:30:19] <unfy> got a few. i usually prefer 'menards', but HD does have a better wire selection
[22:31:30] <Connor> I'm not seeing it online.. but.. my store carries 18-4 shielded stranded.
[22:31:58] <unfy> there's alot of hardware stores around here, i'll be able to find something.
[22:32:27] <unfy> hell, i'm sure we have some here at work i can steal (casino game industry)... but... i hate taking stuff from work
[22:32:32] <Connor> I get the CB connectors from Radio Shack because I was impatient..but you can get them online too
[22:32:42] <unfy> we also have plenty of plastics and metal shop companies in town :D
[22:33:35] <unfy> i'll be doing a mouser purchase eventually for more avr / pcb parts... i'll prolly grab some connectors
[22:33:39] <zeeshan> where are you
[22:33:45] <unfy> omaha, ne, usa.
[22:34:00] <Connor> I tend to do digikey
[22:34:13] <zeeshan> so closed to yellow stone
[22:34:14] <Connor> but, sometimes those connectors are cheaper on ebay or elsewhere
[22:34:16] <zeeshan> lucky
[22:34:28] <renesis> mouser search sucks but they tend to be cheaper for passives and other discrete type shit
[22:34:32] <unfy> i like mouser, personally. digikey is alright... but... mouser's site is better IMHO
[22:34:45] <renesis> its like you already have to know what you want to make the search work
[22:34:50] <unfy> and digikey quit producing catalogs 3 years ago, bastards
[22:34:52] <renesis> digikey, you can use the search to design
[22:35:06] <renesis> ha, getting digikey cats in the mail was so useless
[22:35:10] <Connor> renesis: which is what I typical do.
[22:35:10] <renesis> bathroom reading
[22:35:39] <renesis> oh, and capacitors
[22:35:40] <unfy> nah, cats are great as far as "here is a part i'm thinking about. i wanna look at the page it was in the cat so i can compare parts and glance over stuff"
[22:35:48] <renesis> shopping for capacitors was easier with the cat than online
[22:36:33] <renesis> guys fusion360 doesnt let you set cutting boundaries on 2d paths
[22:36:44] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6p-4-Pin-Female-Microphone-Plug-Ham-Radio-CB-Mic-C146-/170807683383?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c4ee6937
[22:36:46] <renesis> also, it doesnt let you select edge segments, just complete edges
[22:37:14] <renesis> im having to redesign parts just to get the cam to happen how i need it to, kind of lame
[22:37:54] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-4-Pin-Microphone-Connector-Plug-Ham-Radio-CB-A4P-q-/180688776800?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a11e3ee60
[22:38:09] <Connor> Wow, says 5amps at 110vac or 20amps at 12vdc..
[22:38:29] <Connor> I find it hard to believe that dc is rated higher than ac though..
[22:38:44] <unfy> that's one gender, would have to do the other :D
[22:38:59] <Connor> huh?
[22:39:16] <Connor> that link has both plug and sockets
[22:39:44] <unfy> now i see it
[22:39:58] <renesis> there are too many circular connectors
[22:40:58] <Connor> http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/powercon/powercon-20-a/
[22:41:06] <Connor> I'm using those for my spindle.
[22:41:07] <renesis> nice
[22:42:01] <zeeshan> connor
[22:42:04] <zeeshan> finish my cnc controller?
[22:42:07] <renesis> oh weird i didnt know powercon wasnt meant to be disconnected loaded
[22:42:23] <Connor> renesis: They have some that are.
[22:42:47] <renesis> so just the 20A ones are non breaking?
[22:42:53] <Connor> zeeshan: Sure.. pay me lots of $$$ and cover my travel and boarding expense.
[22:42:56] <renesis> they have a complete diff power series now
[22:42:58] <zeeshan> for free
[22:42:58] <zeeshan> !
[22:43:26] <Connor> http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/powercon/powercon-true1-cable-connectors/
[22:43:32] <renesis> yeah 32A powercon says non breaking as well
[22:43:38] <renesis> okay so its the newer ones?
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[22:43:48] <Loetmichel> renesis: did it arc bad?
[22:43:49] <Connor> TRUE1 are Breaking capacity
[22:43:54] <renesis> nice
[22:44:08] <zeeshan> just disconnect any of em live
[22:44:30] <MarkusBec> Connor: this connector with a rating are also fitted to the EU version
[22:44:35] <MarkusBec> with 230V
[22:44:45] <Connor> MarkusBec: Which one ?
[22:44:48] <MarkusBec> with this rating
[22:44:55] <renesis> loetmichel: i wouldnt know ive never disconnected powercon or speakon under load
[22:45:01] <MarkusBec> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-4-Pin-Microphone-Connector-Plug-Ham-Radio-CB-A4P-q-/180688776800?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a11e3ee60
[22:45:09] <renesis> and i imagine you wouldnt see the spark because of the connecter housing
[22:45:14] <Loetmichel> renesis: i did a few speacons
[22:45:24] <Loetmichel> but only 1200W subs on it
[22:45:34] <Loetmichel> and techno music ;-)
[22:45:49] <renesis> you used them or disco'd them?
[22:45:49] <MarkusBec> Connor: I have this connector at my 2,2kw 230V spindle
[22:45:58] <renesis> ive used speakons a ton, love them
[22:46:11] <Connor> MarkusBec: What's the rating at 230v ?
[22:46:15] <MarkusBec> 230V ~10A
[22:46:22] <Connor> so double the 110v rating..
[22:46:37] <renesis> eh?
[22:46:40] <renesis> for a connector?
[22:46:48] <renesis> dont do that
[22:46:51] <Connor> my spindle can pull 16amps @ 90-110v DC so, that's why I went with the PowerCon
[22:47:01] <unfy> there's a few local music stores. might be able to check them out for CB connectors (i prefer to shop local when i can).
[22:47:22] <MarkusBec> the rating of the connector is 120 chinese volts
[22:47:24] <unfy> and radioshack ? no thanks. too expensive ._.
[22:47:39] <Connor> renesis: The CB 4 pins.. rated @ 5amps 110v, 20amps @ 12vdc
[22:47:42] <unfy> i'd love to buy so much more at RS, but they ask silly prices.
[22:47:46] <MarkusBec> the rating of my spindle is 230V ~10A
[22:48:01] <renesis> connector voltage is usually an arc over rating
[22:48:07] <Connor> MarkusBec: using the 3 pin version or 4 pin version ?
[22:48:13] <MarkusBec> 4 pin
[22:48:20] <renesis> current rating isnt related to voltage
[22:48:54] <renesis> not directly, youre still going to drop the same amount of voltage and dissipate the same amount of head in the connector regardless of voltage
[22:49:03] <renesis> heat
[22:49:13] * renesis dissipates all your heads
[22:49:15] <Connor> I wonder what it is at 48v
[22:49:30] <Connor> since that's what the steppers run at..
[22:49:59] <MarkusBec> renesis: the point is its a extremely crappy connector
[22:50:02] <renesis> i would use the dc rating
[22:50:37] <Connor> Again, Like I said, more than enough for the steppers I'm using.
[22:50:50] <renesis> the diff between dc and ac ratings prob has to do with peak current, and expected flyback voltages
[22:51:18] <Loetmichel> renesis: i worked for a stage rental company
[22:51:24] <Loetmichel> i disconnected them under load
[22:51:29] <renesis> ha nice
[22:51:45] <Connor> Not going to be disconnecting steppers under load. :)
[22:52:06] <MarkusBec> http://de.farnell.com/hirschmann/ca6gs/rundsteckverb-polzahl-6-e-panelmont/dp/494677
[22:52:15] <Loetmichel> Connor: the drivers could frown at you for that
[22:52:16] <MarkusBec> my plan is to fit something like this
[22:52:21] <zeeshan> isnt that a good way to blow up your stepper drive
[22:52:23] <zeeshan> by disconnecting it
[22:52:25] <zeeshan> while its enabled
[22:52:28] <Connor> Loetmichel: Exactly! :)
[22:52:34] <MarkusBec> its a waterproof industrial connector
[22:53:35] <renesis> zeeshan: clamp diodes prob deal with that on most systems
[22:53:50] <zeeshan> the manual on the steppers said not to have em on
[22:53:53] <zeeshan> with motor leads disconnected
[22:54:00] <zeeshan> cause sem to pump excess current?
[22:54:01] <zeeshan> shrug
[22:54:04] <MarkusBec> http://www.newark.com/hirschmann/ca6gs/circular-connector-plug-6pos-panel/dp/06WX5703?ost=494677
[22:54:16] <renesis> just depends on their output topology
[22:54:37] <renesis> lots of amps go to a bad place if you put signal on them unloaded
[22:55:02] <renesis> if it kills the driver tho, i wouldnt consider it a very good driver
[22:55:17] <Loetmichel> MarkusBec: go the high route ans use military bajonet connectors ;-)
[22:55:33] <MarkusBec> Loetmichel: only in olive green
[22:55:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=9012
[22:55:54] <Loetmichel> right
[22:56:10] <Loetmichel> but waterproof, rugged AND unreasonable expensive ;-)
[22:56:34] <MarkusBec> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U85tbuizVCs&spfreload=10
[22:56:41] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10453&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- or these
[22:57:00] <MarkusBec> Loetmichel: I have seen all 3 parts :P
[22:57:23] <Loetmichel> i shwoed you, dint i?
[22:58:50] <MarkusBec> I dont know
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[23:07:58] <bobo_> zeeshan : The Mikron ? cnc mill 120/240 volt lub oil pump
[23:08:11] <zeeshan> ah
[23:08:32] <zeeshan> i basically have 3 switches in line
[23:08:33] <unfy> i really need to work with opencv a bit and see how to pair it with cnc stuff later
[23:08:35] <zeeshan> 1 stich is the 7i77
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[23:08:43] <zeeshan> one is fluid level indicator and one is pressure switch
[23:09:18] <zeeshan> if fluid level is low, the circuit will be open and cause an alarm and the pump not to work
[23:09:38] <zeeshan> if pressure switch doesnt show full pressure is achieved within 15 seconds, alarm will be sent
[23:10:10] <zeeshan> if axis is moving, it will lubricate ever 5 minutes
[23:10:13] <zeeshan> *every
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[23:10:41] <zeeshan> basically using 1 7i77 input. and 1 7i77 output through a relay to turn pump on and off
[23:10:48] <zeeshan> through contactor i mean
[23:10:56] <bobo_> compair it to a Maho Mh600E lub pump and how they use it.
[23:11:11] <zeeshan> it seems kinda similar
[23:11:12] <zeeshan> who are you bobo
[23:12:37] <bobo_> just a very old nobody ,interested in your cnc conversion
[23:12:47] <Connor> zeeshan: hal has a timedelay component
[23:12:54] <zeeshan> connor yea im gonna use that
[23:13:06] <zeeshan> i think i might just use a solid state 110vac relay
[23:13:12] <zeeshan> to minimize a relay failure
[23:13:13] <Connor> you can use for both the 5 minute timer and the 15 second timeout timer.
[23:13:47] <zeeshan> bobo_: do you know what type of tool holder the mikron uses?
[23:13:53] <zeeshan> i still haven't find a definite answer
[23:13:59] <Connor> Was going to say.. bobo_ You must not say much. :)
[23:14:45] <zeeshan> i wrote this in my notes:
[23:14:56] <zeeshan> sorry for the caps :)
[23:15:13] <bobo_> my maho also has pull stud question
[23:15:27] <zeeshan> the maho 600 and mikron wf21c
[23:15:30] <zeeshan> almost look identical
[23:15:49] <zeeshan> both use the weird hydraulic tool holder
[23:15:55] <Connor> zeeshan: In Summary, If The Input State Remains At 0V For More Than 20 Seconds After The Timer Starts Or Triggers To 0V Thereafter, The Lubricator Pump Will Be Turned Off And An Alarm Should Light Up In Linuxcnc Display. If The Pump Successfully Ran For 1 Minute, Start A Delay Timer And Set Delay_Lubricator Bit To True. After 5 Minutes, Stop Timer And Set Delay_Lubricator Bit To False.
[23:16:02] <zeeshan> connor haha
[23:16:10] <zeeshan> its from a draft
[23:16:12] <zeeshan> thats why its all in caps :)
[23:16:38] <Connor> Looks funny in inverse title case.. :)
[23:19:31] <zeeshan> connor
[23:19:40] <zeeshan> i stil havent found a good solution to pass wires through the enclosure
[23:19:53] <zeeshan> for limit switch wires, 24vdc solenoids, spindle encoder, interpolators
[23:20:01] <zeeshan> VFD wires, stepper wires
[23:20:07] <Connor> You mean some sort of bulk head ?
[23:20:08] <zeeshan> servo wires not stepper. tachometers
[23:20:09] <zeeshan> yea
[23:20:12] <zeeshan> i really dont wanna spend a lot
[23:20:16] <zeeshan> and idont wanna waste time pinning shit
[23:20:26] <zeeshan> that cb connector for limit switch was brutal last time
[23:20:31] <zeeshan> and it sucks cause you gotta drill a lotta hole
[23:20:43] <zeeshan> i was thinking some big ass ampehol connector
[23:20:44] <zeeshan> but theyre $$
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[23:21:02] <zeeshan> also things like wires for monitor, keyboard, mouse etc
[23:21:07] <zeeshan> they can't really go through a fancy bulkhead
[23:21:16] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271302250032
[23:21:29] <zeeshan> and i really dont wanna make holes for a vga joinner type connector
[23:21:39] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-inch-NPT-Strain-Relief-Cord-Grip-Cable-Gland-with-gasket-and-nut-NEW-/271411267339?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
[23:21:43] <zeeshan> the cable gland is a great idea
[23:21:47] <Connor> I got those to pass wires.
[23:21:48] <zeeshan> i was thinking of using them for the VFD wires
[23:21:52] <zeeshan> and servo power wires
[23:22:06] <Connor> Yea.. You can group them too.. like all encoder wires together.. etc..
[23:22:16] <Connor> no need to have one for each and every wire.
[23:22:44] <zeeshan> i can handle disconnecting the wires at the VFD
[23:22:45] <bobo_> maho lub pump starts when mach. is started ( no pressure = machine start inhibit) ,the control has a timer for more lub oil baised on axis movement and also increased lub if small axis movement
[23:22:48] <Connor> I've got the 3/4" still. let me see if a VGA will go through it.
[23:22:51] <zeeshan> but i think itll be a little excessuve to do that for limit switches
[23:22:54] <zeeshan> from 7i77
[23:23:07] <zeeshan> thats why i wanted some sort of nice connector for the limit switch, spindle encoder, glass scale, solenoid wires
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[23:23:33] <Connor> I took mine too that breakout box I built.. using the DIN mounted terminal blocks..
[23:23:34] <zeeshan> bobo are you sure?
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[23:23:38] <zeeshan> i know someone with a maho 400e
[23:23:45] <Connor> run the wires through you gland.. and wire them up.
[23:23:53] <Connor> after I put the pin crimps on.
[23:23:58] <zeeshan> wait im confusing that with the hydraulic pump
[23:24:11] <zeeshan> oh i remember now, i have the manual for the actual vogel pump
[23:24:14] <bobo_> it's in the mach param
[23:24:15] <zeeshan> it says 20% duty cycle
[23:24:18] <zeeshan> max
[23:24:48] <zeeshan> connor i dont think i have room for a terminal block
[23:25:03] <zeeshan> i think ill just do a fancy connector for the limit switch, encoder, tacho wires
[23:25:11] <Connor> okay. VGA will not go through 3/4 gland.
[23:25:14] <zeeshan> damn it
[23:25:23] <Connor> BUT.
[23:25:44] <zeeshan> will a usb connector fit through?
[23:25:49] <zeeshan> like the ones for a keyboard
[23:25:59] <Connor> yea. 1/2 for that easy.
[23:26:18] <SpeedEvil> microusb female connectorsexist
[23:26:36] <zeeshan> o nthe lathe comp
[23:26:40] <zeeshan> i had a hdmi port, so i just used that
[23:26:42] <zeeshan> but this comp has no hdmi :/
[23:26:48] <Connor> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=109&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042506&p_id=4568&seq=1&format=2
[23:26:52] <Connor> get you one of these..
[23:26:56] <Connor> remove the connector..
[23:27:17] <bobo_> the hydraulic pump has a pressure acum due to duty cucle
[23:27:17] <zeeshan> connor what about a 1" cable gland
[23:27:24] <Connor> install in the enclosure.. you'll have to make the hole with a drimel ..
[23:27:39] <Connor> vga probably would go through 1" gland.. but, it won't seal up.
[23:27:49] <zeeshan> ill pass all the computer wires through it?
[23:27:59] <Connor> probably.
[23:28:00] <zeeshan> and then use a big rubber piece
[23:28:08] <zeeshan> kinda ghetto :P
[23:28:25] <Connor> yea. you can get all kinds of vga bukk head connectors though.
[23:28:27] <Connor> bulk head
[23:28:41] <zeeshan> okay todays mission:
[23:28:45] <zeeshan> mount neutral bar and ground bar
[23:29:02] <zeeshan> and measure all wire sizes so i can get appropriate cable glands
[23:29:16] <zeeshan> i need to find out if +/-60v signals from tachometer
[23:29:32] <zeeshan> are a bad idea to pass through the same amphenol connector as the limit switches
[23:29:39] <zeeshan> im thinking yes, because its a inductive signal
[23:29:57] <zeeshan> by inductive signal i mean it changes voltage as a function of time
[23:30:00] <Connor> are the encoders differential ?
[23:30:07] <zeeshan> the glass scale ones yes
[23:30:14] <zeeshan> but the signal coming from the glass scales are analog.
[23:30:21] <zeeshan> they go differential after interpolator within the enclosure
[23:30:26] <Connor> oh okay.
[23:30:30] <zeeshan> theyre also 5v
[23:30:35] <zeeshan> so theyre susecptible to nosie i bet.
[23:30:46] <Connor> yea.. you'll want to keep the 60v stuff isolated.. and be sure to use shielded cables..
[23:30:46] <zeeshan> wait i take that back..
[23:30:51] <zeeshan> they might be differential analog if that makes any sense.
[23:31:06] <zeeshan> okay sounds good
[23:31:13] * zeeshan notes that down
[23:31:31] <Connor> and you know, to only ground on one side?
[23:31:35] <zeeshan> yea
[23:31:35] <Connor> typically from the enclosure side.
[23:31:51] <zeeshan> the thing is the ampehol or whatever connector
[23:31:55] <zeeshan> will be grounded to the chassis
[23:31:58] <zeeshan> so i just ground it there
[23:32:18] <zeeshan> my cb connectors for the steppers ground @ the chassis where they are.
[23:32:21] <Connor> Now, one thing you need to keep in mind... is that not all grounds are the same.
[23:32:23] <zeeshan> the wires inside the panel are unshielded
[23:32:29] <Connor> the 7i77 has isolated grounds for some stuff.
[23:32:41] <zeeshan> yea all the field stuff is isolated
[23:32:43] <bobo_> scale sig. is analog diff. i think
[23:32:50] <zeeshan> so you gotta run a negative wire from power supply
[23:32:50] <zeeshan> to it
[23:32:53] <Connor> right. so. don't tie that ground to the chassis ground.
[23:32:58] <zeeshan> yes :D
[23:33:09] <zeeshan> same with the intepolators
[23:33:12] <Connor> and shield to the chassis ground.
[23:33:13] <zeeshan> they have a floating ground
[23:33:37] <zeeshan> ok ill be back later, thanks for the help :D
[23:33:48] <Connor> Don't you wish you took a Electrical eng course or two? :)
[23:34:32] <Connor> Wish I had some class room and class lab experience.. everything I know I've learned from doing or the net.
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[23:35:35] <unfy> there are times i wish i had gone to some higher education place or a trade school
[23:36:00] <unfy> but... i've interviewed alot of college grads (programming positions) that had NO clue WTF they were doing
[23:36:21] <bobo_> if you take a electronic course it will remove the Magical events and all of the fun
[23:36:53] <unfy> and have talked to several college kids going through school, and thus - i'm happy that i did NOT go to some higher education. cause i would totally be flipping tables in rage about not being taught anything useful.
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[23:58:24] <bobo_> really depends on the schools instructors and the schools idea of who the instructors should be