#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-11-19

[00:00:06] <andypugh> The R1 is surprisingly comfortable, better than the FJ1100 on a long ride. But only if the speed is > 30mph
[00:00:08] <PetefromTn_> the R1 is a lot more short, snappy, and lighter than the big fizzer
[00:00:42] <PetefromTn_> really...I would not have thought that. I have ridden quite a few R bikes
[00:00:50] <PetefromTn_> My best friend has an R6
[00:01:05] <andypugh> I find it practical enough to have been my only transport for 11 years.
[00:01:11] <PetefromTn_> we often traded bikes
[00:01:16] <PetefromTn_> WOW
[00:01:23] <andypugh> The R6 is quite a lot smaller.
[00:01:39] <andypugh> 97,500 miles and counting...
[00:01:41] <PetefromTn_> my wife did not like riding on it with me near as much as she did on the big FZR
[00:01:53] <PetefromTn_> are you kidding me?
[00:02:00] <andypugh> Yeah, pillion on the R1 is hopeless.
[00:02:02] <PetefromTn_> that is a TON of miles
[00:02:20] <PetefromTn_> she used to like riding with me on the FZR tho.
[00:02:38] <andypugh> I doubt that many R1s have done more miles, but some probably have.
[00:02:48] <PetefromTn_> I love the Ducati 999 because it is both beautiful and has a nice pass seat
[00:03:05] <PetefromTn_> and I love the looks of the Suzuki TLR1000R
[00:03:15] <PetefromTn_> I got a think for fast twins....
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[00:03:18] <PetefromTn_> thing
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[00:28:48] <CaptHindsight> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sintratec-world-s-first-desktop-laser-sinterer
[00:29:03] <CaptHindsight> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/0nixg5suFzxzfAk1dw15UmyzUnqCyNPL1a2WA2gWAuFm5nnOFFayUVAu5ZtAY3cXxSXPekdRB_Rt-ZjUBzxmHdEqJQ07-VilMfh5_7-moliKjz7P75XeYbTZIzdtUekuPw
[00:29:23] postaL_offline is now known as postaL
[00:29:40] <LeelooMinai> I already see that adjustable wrench snaping in half:)
[00:32:02] <LeelooMinai> I made version 2 of my limit switches today: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15823616232/
[00:32:56] <CaptHindsight> they're going for the low hanging fruit, sintering nylon and ABS at low resolution
[00:33:21] <LeelooMinai> Right, but nylon wrench - that's a bit misleading:)
[00:33:37] <CaptHindsight> certainly
[00:33:38] <LeelooMinai> People will get strange ideas...
[00:33:56] <CaptHindsight> it's all rapid prototype that would be faster machined
[00:33:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20141118-aachen-university-uses-3d-printer-to-build-a-fully-functional-electric-car-in-just-12-months.html
[00:34:05] <CaptHindsight> took them a year
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[00:34:47] <CaptHindsight> they are all monkey see, monkey do. They aren't even trying to make functional parts with low cost materials at high res and high speed.
[00:35:21] <LeelooMinai> A lot of hype and voodoo about 3D p rinters
[00:35:42] <CaptHindsight> everyone seem to just be making a maker quality 3d printer with 20-30 year old tech
[00:35:45] <LeelooMinai> People buy them, print a Yoda head, and that's that
[00:35:54] <CaptHindsight> they are just in it for the quick buck
[00:36:46] <LeelooMinai> There must be a lot of 3d printer projects on kickstarter
[00:37:01] <LeelooMinai> Or similar sites
[00:37:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20141117-ester-sls-3d-printer-to-launch-soon-on-indiegogo.html this one is half the others price
[00:37:37] <CaptHindsight> makerslide, cam bearings, timing belts
[00:38:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/images2014/ester-sls-3d-printer-indiegogo-2.jpg whats this good for?
[00:38:35] <LeelooMinai> Seems like a wheel
[00:38:36] <CaptHindsight> it's not functional
[00:39:03] <CaptHindsight> that one is terrible, makes FDM look good
[00:39:04] <LeelooMinai> Wheel for some robot? :)
[00:39:06] <PetefromTn_> looks like it is made of glued up sand LOL
[00:39:33] <LeelooMinai> Maybe when you clean it up it looks better (?)
[00:39:54] <CaptHindsight> no, that is it sintered
[00:40:06] <CaptHindsight> you'd have to machine it to clean it up
[00:40:16] <CaptHindsight> so why not just machine it?
[00:40:21] <PetefromTn_> almost looks like it needs to be wire brushed and cleaned up LOL
[00:40:33] <PetefromTn_> but then again NOT
[00:40:51] <CaptHindsight> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/mvBIcSPqHflWAwN3S5pgQIvF7giLKjzMcZovxr8kUPM0wlBIeffY8rYODRakEwce9_2EWIoby4eJO397qZwul6PBVz__NuEmJOfTVQ1zeX2m0Kq40OpsoaA-yX1KULQ_ag
[00:40:56] <CaptHindsight> this one is better
[00:41:23] <CaptHindsight> but it shows how clueless they are by using these models as examples
[00:41:56] <CaptHindsight> print a medical part that is difficult to machine and you only need 100's of
[00:42:04] <PetefromTn_> I love how one of those advertisement photos shows what looks like a bearing
[00:42:23] <LeelooMinai> Maytbe it's supposed to suggest that the printer makes parts that are strong as metal
[00:42:30] <CaptHindsight> SLS can make functional parts
[00:42:45] <PetefromTn_> a bearing?
[00:42:46] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: you think they are trying to get suckers to think that?
[00:43:01] <LeelooMinai> I am sure some people would think that, yes
[00:43:08] <CaptHindsight> not actually say if but get you to assume that
[00:43:09] <LeelooMinai> People in general are pretty clueless and naive
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[00:44:38] <CaptHindsight> Exact pricing is not yet fixed but you can expect the price of 1 kg to be below USD 149. for $2/lb resin
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[00:45:10] <Jymmm> oh RESIN.... nevermind.
[00:45:12] <CaptHindsight> <$5/kg actual cost
[00:45:56] <CaptHindsight> so 3000% markup
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[00:46:08] <CaptHindsight> not bad
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[01:05:54] <PetefromTn_> why is it that almost every motorcycle I see on craigslist has NO TITLE on it... Jeez. I mean if you don't have a title how the hell can you register it and ride it let alone sell it?
[01:07:33] <CaptHindsight> maybe you have a title and no bike, now you have a pair
[01:07:45] <PetefromTn_> heh
[01:07:52] <PetefromTn_> a pair of nothing maybe
[01:08:13] <CaptHindsight> it used to be different, I used to restore old cars
[01:08:35] <CaptHindsight> we'd have a box or stack of titles for one complete car
[01:09:03] <PetefromTn_> you mean because it was made up of several different cars?
[01:09:24] <CaptHindsight> now days they treat you like a criminal for that
[01:09:24] <PetefromTn_> usually the frame is what is titled..
[01:09:47] <CaptHindsight> yeah, we'd get entire cars just for parts
[01:09:55] <PetefromTn_> I was watching some youtube videos yesterday of Electric motorcycle conversions
[01:09:58] <Jymmm> and engine
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[01:10:40] <PetefromTn_> they are pretty slick some of them now and have decent range for what you would want to ride a sportbike for
[01:10:52] <PetefromTn_> I am sure it would not be cheap to build one tho.
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[01:11:24] <PetefromTn_> there is a fellow who made one from a clean Yamaha FZR400 which was quite a nice bike back in the day.
[01:11:54] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: are the bikes without titles 5 cents on the dollar?
[01:12:12] <PetefromTn_> some of the production prototypes of these electric bikes are quite fast and powerful
[01:12:26] <PetefromTn_> actually not generally which is what amazes me...
[01:12:52] <PetefromTn_> I don't know how anyone would buy a bike from someone who technically does not own it for say a grand less than a properly titled one?
[01:12:57] <CaptHindsight> if you've ever been to a harley swap meet....
[01:13:08] <CaptHindsight> you don't ask where they got them from :)
[01:13:22] <PetefromTn_> not a big Harley fan generally...
[01:13:31] <PetefromTn_> they are nice just not my style...
[01:13:47] <CaptHindsight> me neither, noisy bumbpy things
[01:14:07] <PetefromTn_> If I was ever to spend a big chunk of change on a bike it would undoubtedly be a Ducati or Aprilia
[01:15:04] <PetefromTn_> I do appreciate some of the custom ones tho. Lots of work and design ideas in them that is hard to deny
[01:15:19] <PetefromTn_> I also rode a Buell once that was interesting.
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[01:27:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/SlS3JbM.png
[01:27:01] <zeeshan> wow
[01:27:04] <zeeshan> buffalo got screwed hard
[01:27:36] <zeeshan> https://twitter.com/NWSChicago/status/534747305769836544
[01:27:37] <zeeshan> moar
[01:27:54] <CaptHindsight> 2ft + 2 more ft
[01:28:05] <zeeshan> they got 72"
[01:28:11] <zeeshan> or something
[01:28:43] <Tom_itx> they could have a right good snowball fight
[01:30:41] <CaptHindsight> glad I'm not on 90 this week
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[01:41:22] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qanlirrRWs#t=679 Damn that is some serious driving...
[01:41:50] <zeeshan> hes got skill
[01:41:50] <zeeshan> :D
[01:42:26] <PetefromTn_> Mad gnarly hairy skills....LOL
[01:42:51] <zeeshan> http://www.wcvb.com/weather/uncut-timelapse-video-shows-wall-of-snow-creeping-into-buffalo-new-york/29803812?utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=wcvb%2Bchannel%2B5%2Bboston
[01:42:52] <zeeshan> holy shit
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[01:48:32] <zeeshan> hey guys im having trouble cokming up with a routine for my power drawbar routine
[01:48:48] <zeeshan> when tool change command button is pressed in linuxcnc
[01:48:59] <zeeshan> it turns on the hydraulic pump for 30 seconds
[01:49:25] <zeeshan> it also takes the input from the pressure switch.
[01:49:42] <zeeshan> so when i press the "tool change requestion button" this is what happens.
[01:51:29] <zeeshan> tool change request (momentary button NO) -> 7i77 input -> check vfd is on? ok. check pressure is reached? ok. check if spindle is off? ok. check if m06 g-code is active? ok. -> when all conditions are met energize solenoid for hydraulic pressure to drawbar
[01:52:12] <zeeshan> my concern is it doesnt seem safe
[01:52:17] <zeeshan> because it's all done through linuxcnc
[01:54:11] <zeeshan> all it takes is a noise spike
[01:54:26] <zeeshan> on the too change request input
[01:54:32] <zeeshan> and it seems like things can go haywire
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[01:54:53] <zeeshan> (these are 24vdc signals)
[01:54:57] <PetefromTn_> does your machine have an automatic tool changer?
[01:55:04] <zeeshan> yes
[01:55:14] <zeeshan> well by automatic
[01:55:19] <zeeshan> i dont mean it loads it by itself
[01:55:21] <zeeshan> its a power drawbar
[01:55:23] <zeeshan> hydraulic
[01:55:43] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n39CqxrhkVg&list=UUy-Z-COl0WvPmSLXMOvtedg
[01:56:13] <PetefromTn_> then the answer is no... so if the spike you are talking about happens all that will occur is that the hydraulic pump will cycle. Nothing happens until YOU press the power drawbar button no?
[01:56:47] <zeeshan> check that video out to see the interface
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[01:57:30] <zeeshan> hmm..
[01:57:38] <zeeshan> im worried about a spike on the solenoid signal wire
[01:57:51] <zeeshan> or for some reason 7i77 goes haywire
[01:57:57] <zeeshan> and changes the states of the output
[01:58:17] <zeeshan> cause i was planning to have an output directly from 7i77 to the solenoid
[01:58:24] <zeeshan> so i dunno if there is a computer freeze
[01:58:31] <zeeshan> and for some reason the 7i77's outputs change state
[01:58:39] <zeeshan> it might trigger the solenoid while the spinddle is running
[01:58:42] <zeeshan> that could be dangerous :/
[01:58:48] <PetefromTn_> why would you want anything but a physical button to release the tool?
[01:58:55] <zeeshan> well the idea was
[01:58:58] <zeeshan> to "add safety"
[01:59:07] <PetefromTn_> my machine has a disable while the spindle is in motion
[01:59:07] <zeeshan> for some reason i decide to press the physical button while the spindle is running
[01:59:11] <zeeshan> it wont let me
[01:59:15] <zeeshan> (cause it'll know the spindle is running)
[01:59:35] <PetefromTn_> you can push the button all you want and nothing happens
[01:59:40] <zeeshan> okay
[01:59:44] <zeeshan> so you have some sort of physical relayu
[01:59:48] <zeeshan> that interfaces with the spindle vfd?
[01:59:56] <PetefromTn_> it also does not work unless there is sufficient air pressure in the system.
[02:00:00] <zeeshan> which stops the power drawbar from working?
[02:00:04] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[02:00:06] <zeeshan> hmm
[02:00:09] <zeeshan> excellent way of doing it
[02:00:31] <PetefromTn_> works fine so far....
[02:00:45] <zeeshan> most vfds have these aux relays builtin
[02:00:49] <zeeshan> that are NC or NO
[02:00:50] <PetefromTn_> and I have accidentally pressed it before ;)
[02:01:00] <zeeshan> depending on a condition met in the VFD
[02:01:15] <zeeshan> so i would wire my 24vdc solenoid wire
[02:01:17] <zeeshan> through that relay
[02:01:22] <zeeshan> and through my physical switch
[02:01:28] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: it happens
[02:01:35] <zeeshan> especially if i'm not paying attention
[02:01:37] <zeeshan> i could trigger it
[02:02:18] <PetefromTn_> it is a neccessary safety to be sure
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[02:06:36] <zeeshan> you know i think ill do it like this
[02:06:57] <zeeshan> spindle is on && pressure is reached ===> output from 7i77 to energize relay
[02:07:10] <zeeshan> then solenoid switch goes through the latch of the relay
[02:07:38] <zeeshan> cause then theres no way a comptuer freeze can ever press that switch
[02:07:52] <zeeshan> *energize
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[02:18:21] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: still there?
[02:18:30] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[02:18:32] <PetefromTn_> sorry
[02:18:36] <PetefromTn_> watching a youtube vid
[02:18:39] <zeeshan> haha
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[02:18:45] <zeeshan> dude you worked on your mill a lot
[02:18:53] <zeeshan> can you help me ensure i have covered all my i/o
[02:18:56] <PetefromTn_> not enought it's still not done
[02:18:59] <zeeshan> so far i have all my limit switches
[02:19:05] <zeeshan> and e-stop signal
[02:19:19] <zeeshan> and now that "spindle is on & pressure is reached" output
[02:19:27] <zeeshan> anything else common that im overlooking?
[02:19:33] <PetefromTn_> homes?
[02:19:42] <zeeshan> limits are also homes
[02:19:45] <zeeshan> the +'s
[02:19:49] <PetefromTn_> ok
[02:20:18] <PetefromTn_> do you have a servo enable button
[02:20:28] <zeeshan> no
[02:20:32] <PetefromTn_> I am still needing to add a lot of buttons to my panel
[02:20:39] <zeeshan> i do that through the machine power button in the interface
[02:20:41] <PetefromTn_> I am using a keyboard for most of it.
[02:20:54] <zeeshan> same here man
[02:20:57] <zeeshan> it keeps wiring simple
[02:21:01] <PetefromTn_> I have a button for jogging off a limit
[02:21:05] <zeeshan> if anything i'll do a usb pendant
[02:21:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah but I want to add a bunch more stuff to the pendant
[02:21:28] <zeeshan> can't you bypass the limit switch
[02:21:30] <zeeshan> in linuxcnc?
[02:21:34] <PetefromTn_> like axes and increment selection
[02:22:01] <zeeshan> i forget how it is on my lathe right now
[02:22:06] <PetefromTn_> I don't know this is a physical electrical bypass that lets me enable servos in the event of a limit trip
[02:22:26] <PetefromTn_> so I can jog off them
[02:22:30] <zeeshan> hmm
[02:22:32] <PetefromTn_> should NEVER be needed
[02:22:34] <zeeshan> i totally forgot how it's working on my lathe
[02:22:45] <zeeshan> i dont have an enable button
[02:22:45] <PetefromTn_> as long as the machine is homed out upon startup
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[02:23:02] <zeeshan> OH
[02:23:05] <zeeshan> thats how im doing it
[02:23:08] <PetefromTn_> I want to try to setup an auto homing routine upon startup
[02:23:13] <zeeshan> it wont let you trip the limit switches
[02:23:15] <zeeshan> cause of the soft limits
[02:23:19] <PetefromTn_> yes
[02:23:34] <zeeshan> well you have limit switches wired
[02:23:38] <zeeshan> so it will be really easy for you
[02:23:43] <zeeshan> just dont be a moron like me
[02:23:49] <zeeshan> and destroy your limit switch on the first go
[02:23:55] <zeeshan> cause you got the direction wrong in the ini file
[02:23:55] <zeeshan> haha
[02:24:06] <PetefromTn_> damn that sucks
[02:24:14] <PetefromTn_> my machine has both limits and homes
[02:24:18] <zeeshan> i dont mean to sound like im whining
[02:24:21] <PetefromTn_> so does the new CNC lathe I bought
[02:24:25] <zeeshan> but those instructions are not really user friendly
[02:24:28] <zeeshan> they're not clear
[02:24:31] <zeeshan> clear as mud :)
[02:24:39] <zeeshan> nice man
[02:24:50] <zeeshan> to be honest with you
[02:24:53] <zeeshan> my machines a bit weird
[02:24:53] <PetefromTn_> most of the programming side of this stuff is clear as mud to me so don't feel bad.
[02:25:00] <zeeshan> on the Y axis i see + and - limit switches
[02:25:05] <zeeshan> but i also see a proximity switch
[02:25:11] <zeeshan> which i am assuming is a home swiotch
[02:25:16] <PetefromTn_> probably
[02:25:19] <zeeshan> but i dont see prox switches onthe Z and X
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[02:25:28] <zeeshan> unless theyre hiding somewhere
[02:25:42] <PetefromTn_> is there multiple wires coming off the other axes
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[02:25:57] <zeeshan> ill check next time im in the garage
[02:26:02] <zeeshan> it too cold to go in there :-(
[02:26:04] <zeeshan> need the heat on
[02:26:31] <zeeshan> these really shitty omron limit switches seem to hold 0.0001"
[02:26:35] <zeeshan> repeatability
[02:26:37] <PetefromTn_> most machines this large have both limits and homes
[02:26:46] <zeeshan> on the lathe
[02:27:31] <zeeshan> any other i/o
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[02:29:36] <PetefromTn_> dunno
[02:29:51] <PetefromTn_> does your machine have any sort of Prox switches on the spindle etc?
[02:30:00] <zeeshan> shit
[02:30:04] <zeeshan> i totally forgot about those
[02:30:04] <zeeshan> haha
[02:30:14] <zeeshan> the spindle encoder.
[02:30:35] <zeeshan> i think ill put that directly to the encoder inputs
[02:30:36] <zeeshan> on the 7i77
[02:30:39] <zeeshan> ill be using all 6!
[02:30:44] <zeeshan> 5 for each axis and 1 for spindle
[02:31:28] <PetefromTn_> that is a five axis machine?
[02:31:40] <zeeshan> NO
[02:31:43] <zeeshan> er sorry caps
[02:31:49] <zeeshan> (using autocad rofl)
[02:32:10] <zeeshan> its 3 axis but ill be throwing a rotary table for a and c axis
[02:32:31] <PetefromTn_> oh so 3+2
[02:32:33] <zeeshan> yes
[02:32:40] <PetefromTn_> interesting
[02:32:53] <PetefromTn_> I would not even know where to begin to program a machine like that.
[02:33:16] <zeeshan> i did a bit of 5 axis programming using mastercam for a plastic injectin place i worked at
[02:33:21] <zeeshan> like for a couple weeks
[02:33:24] <zeeshan> it was confusing as hell
[02:33:41] <zeeshan> like i dont know if you do this
[02:33:48] <zeeshan> but after your spit out some code from CAM
[02:33:54] <zeeshan> you read over it to make sure its sane
[02:34:04] <zeeshan> with 5 axis, it takes way too long
[02:34:08] <PetefromTn_> I really want to get a fourth axis built or bought so I can start playing with it and learn
[02:34:11] <zeeshan> its a mess
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[02:34:20] <PetefromTn_> I usually just use a simulator
[02:34:53] <PetefromTn_> then run with movements slowed down to a safe level upon first run of virgin code
[02:35:23] <zeeshan> ah
[02:35:33] <zeeshan> sometimes i dont trust cam cause if the post processor is messed
[02:35:36] <zeeshan> it'll spit out junk code
[02:36:15] <PetefromTn_> yeah which again is why I run slow the first time so I can stop it before bad stuff happens
[02:36:32] <zeeshan> <-- to lazy
[02:36:32] <zeeshan> :D
[02:36:59] <PetefromTn_> the sim should show what is going on even if the post processor is messed up...
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[02:38:00] <zeeshan> well you know something like circ interpolation modes?
[02:38:05] <zeeshan> theyre different between machines\?
[02:38:09] <zeeshan> some like the quadrant style input
[02:38:11] <zeeshan> some like full circle
[02:38:20] <zeeshan> if you're lucky you get an error in the machine
[02:38:24] <zeeshan> but sometimes it runs
[02:38:33] <zeeshan> so simulator shows it correctly
[02:38:35] <zeeshan> but machine does something else
[02:39:10] <PetefromTn_> sure but that kind of issue should have been proven out on much simpler code beforehand
[02:39:28] <zeeshan> basically youre saying i worry too much
[02:39:28] <zeeshan> :)
[02:39:43] <PetefromTn_> I think we all know that here :D
[02:39:57] <zeeshan> dude seriously before school and stuff
[02:40:00] <PetefromTn_> that is not necessarily a bad thing really
[02:40:09] <zeeshan> when i used to work on my car, i didnt take things seriously
[02:40:20] <zeeshan> when i look at some of my old pics, im like "WTF"
[02:40:21] <zeeshan> haha
[02:40:47] <zeeshan> now i stress myself out :/
[02:41:24] <PetefromTn_> honestly when it comes to machines I am a bit overly cautious, I would probably get a lot more done if I were a bit more adventurous.
[02:41:58] <zeeshan> hey dude
[02:42:01] <PetefromTn_> but my own machines I have far too much invested in them to take silly chances and I don't like crashes they scare the shit out of me.
[02:42:04] <zeeshan> all you need to do is build yourself a pipe machine
[02:42:07] <zeeshan> like pipe man
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[02:42:22] <zeeshan> yea man
[02:42:29] <zeeshan> like i dont wanna burn a VFD for example
[02:42:32] <zeeshan> that'll cause a fortune to replace
[02:42:48] <zeeshan> and i also dont wanna do extra work
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[02:42:52] <zeeshan> you know what the worst thing is?
[02:42:56] <zeeshan> youre done wiring everything
[02:43:06] <zeeshan> and you realize you forgot to make a hole in the enclosure to pass a wire for something
[02:43:13] <zeeshan> and then you need to drill that crap while components are still in
[02:43:17] <zeeshan> and deal with the chips
[02:43:26] <zeeshan> that drives me insane
[02:43:29] <PetefromTn_> I have done that several times
[02:43:40] <cnc4clay> H
[02:43:45] <PetefromTn_> I had to tape plastic sheet over my drives
[02:44:03] <zeeshan> haha
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[02:44:07] <zeeshan> it sucks man!!
[02:44:10] <zeeshan> i did similar
[02:44:31] <zeeshan> this time im building everything on a mounting plate
[02:44:43] <zeeshan> and keeping all communication wires between components on it
[02:44:51] <zeeshan> anything that goes external has a plug
[02:45:13] <zeeshan> so it'd be a matter of disconnecting external plugs and removing 4 plates to remove the entire assembly
[02:45:19] <zeeshan> (at least thats the plan)
[02:45:25] <PetefromTn_> that is not really practical for my machine but it would be nice
[02:45:29] <cnc4clay> I just finished installing the binary.hybrid.iso for 6.4 wheezy. It looked okay when I ran linuxcnc with the simulation but then I ran apt-get update and upgrade and linuxcnc doesn't work. What happened?
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[02:46:39] <cradek> perhaps share more about "doesn't work"
[02:47:36] <cnc4clay> The splash page came up and then a few other quick pages and after about 40 seconds a 15 page listing was produced.
[02:48:45] <cradek> it can be hard to spot the actual error sometimes. if in doubt, put the entire contents of the error listing on a pastebin site
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[02:49:15] <cnc4clay> I have never done that. What do I do?
[02:49:55] <cradek> go to a site like http://pastebin.ca and paste the text in the box. then when you submit it, you'll get a url. copy that url here.
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[02:55:44] <Tom_itx> package manager pointing to the right update page?
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[02:57:47] <cradek> if he installed the iso, the sources are absolutely set up right
[02:58:23] <cradek> looking at the error message has got to be our best strategy here :-)
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[03:04:11] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/kYpZaCk.png
[03:04:19] <zeeshan> can someone please help me make sense of this manual
[03:04:30] <zeeshan> its saying both the output and input need a power supply?!?!
[03:04:42] <zeeshan> lime on the input connector "up means 5V supply"
[03:04:46] <zeeshan> 0V i guess is ground.
[03:04:53] <zeeshan> but what about on the output side?
[03:05:02] <zeeshan> whats the diff between up and sensor up
[03:05:24] <zeeshan> and why do both sides of the circuit need power?!
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[03:07:03] <cnc4clay> +cradek: You can look at: http://pastebin.ca/2874699 for the listing. Thanks
[03:08:16] <cradek> python: swrast/s_renderbuffer.c:588: map_attachment: Assertion `srb->Map' failed.
[03:08:21] <cradek> looks like your opengl is broken
[03:08:38] <cradek> did you change anything about the video driver?
[03:09:17] <cradek> [ 27.120010] render error detected, EIR: 0x00000010
[03:10:11] <cnc4clay> Between running linuxcnc the first time when it worked and the second time were I got the error I only did the update and upgrade.
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[03:11:21] <cradek> I wonder if that might be a coincidence
[03:11:54] <cradek> google isn't telling me much - people in 2010-2011 suggesting it's a hardware problem
[03:12:08] <cradek> can you just slap a different video card in?
[03:13:12] <cradek> if you can reproduce this consistently, it would be very interesting to know what particular package upgrade breaks it
[03:15:25] <cradek> when I boot live and do an upgrade, I don't see anything related to opengl, X, or linuxcnc
[03:15:51] <cradek> I doubt the pattern you've identified is really the pattern you'll find is true, given more experimentation
[03:17:18] <cradek> http://pastie.org/9729206
[03:17:58] <cradek> you might try booting from power off, vs. rebooting, or similar
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[03:19:43] <cnc4clay> up
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[03:22:58] <cnc4clay> I just downloaded the update upgrade listing to pastebin.ca/2874732. That may help. No, I don't have a video card to put in. The computer is an old Dell 2400 if that helps.
[03:24:23] <cradek> I can virtually promise that those packages are not breaking linuxcnc or opengl
[03:24:40] <cnc4clay> I
[03:24:44] <cradek> please experiment some more and see if you can figure out a different pattern
[03:25:33] <cnc4clay> The url for the listing from update and upgrade is pastebin.ca/2874732
[03:25:52] <cradek> yep saw it
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[03:26:04] <cradek> brb
[03:27:51] <cnc4clay> I will reinstall and try another sim template and work with it for a longer time and not do an update/upgrade. Thanks for your help as I didn't know where to start!
[03:28:43] <renesis> 07:07:49 < zeeshan> and why do both sides of the circuit need power?!
[03:28:55] -!- asdfasd has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[03:29:21] <renesis> zeeshan: could be for different voltage levels, for isolation, is maybe just an opto power pin breakout
[03:30:54] -!- swingley has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[03:30:56] <renesis> and it might be a two terminal sensor, resistive or a switch or something
[03:32:17] -!- WyrM has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[03:33:16] <renesis> and before you bitch me out about making too many assumptions, you really need a circuit diagram, or related texts, or relavent specs to figure any of this out with any certainty, pin diagram = not enough information
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[03:34:31] <cradek> cnc4clay: welcome, please report back what you find
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[03:42:56] <XXCoder> interestijng page http://www.survivorlibrary.com/?page_id=1014
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[03:51:25] <zeeshan> renesis: it is all they give
[03:52:23] <Tom_itx> is this an encoder?
[03:52:27] <zeeshan> yea
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[03:53:05] <Tom_itx> which connector pair do you have?
[03:53:13] <Tom_itx> round or rectangular
[03:53:21] <zeeshan> round from encoders
[03:53:28] <zeeshan> 9 pin
[03:54:23] <renesis> english is not the documents first language
[03:54:30] <zeeshan> haha yea
[03:54:37] <zeeshan> heidenhain = german i think
[03:55:02] <renesis> germans like to !
[03:56:07] <zeeshan> http://www.heidenhain.com/fileadmin/pdb/media/img/582_761-20.pdf
[03:56:09] <zeeshan> this is the full pdf..
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[03:59:15] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15204763603/
[03:59:17] <zeeshan> image of board
[03:59:36] <renesis> shit goes from 1vpp analog signals to 5v digital signals, splitting analog and digital supplies is pretty common
[03:59:58] <zeeshan> i have idp101
[04:00:02] <zeeshan> so input is 11 uA
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[04:00:25] <renesis> are their chips on both sides
[04:00:29] <zeeshan> no
[04:00:30] <renesis> there
[04:00:31] <zeeshan> one side only
[04:00:43] <renesis> well then its prob not isolated
[04:02:12] <Tom_itx> so your encoder plugs in the input side and you use the output side to linuxcnc?
[04:02:28] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yes thats the only logical solution i think
[04:02:35] <zeeshan> cause the analog signal if you look in that manual
[04:02:36] <Tom_itx> that's what it shows
[04:02:37] <zeeshan> is on the input side
[04:02:48] <zeeshan> it goes from a 10 pin input
[04:02:50] <zeeshan> to 12pin output
[04:02:56] <zeeshan> i just dont see how the power hooks up
[04:03:03] <renesis> yeah the encoder outputs 1vpp, this turns it into 5v pulses
[04:03:09] <zeeshan> renesis:
[04:03:11] <zeeshan> thats the other model
[04:03:12] <zeeshan> i have idp 101
[04:03:16] <zeeshan> its 11 uApp
[04:03:19] <Tom_itx> 5v on pin3
[04:03:32] <renesis> same shit, its an analog sine
[04:03:37] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yes but if you look on the output
[04:03:41] <zeeshan> pin 12 also have a 5v
[04:03:44] <Tom_itx> GND on 4
[04:03:47] <Tom_itx> so?
[04:03:48] <zeeshan> so i dont understand why they have 2 5vs?
[04:03:59] <zeeshan> and whats sensor 5v?
[04:04:00] <Tom_itx> maybe it passes thru
[04:04:07] <renesis> yeah i was going to say test
[04:04:07] <Tom_itx> power to the sensor
[04:04:26] <zeeshan> okay so i should check for continuity
[04:04:29] <zeeshan> between both the "ups"
[04:04:32] <renesis> connect the output side, see if theirs power on the input connector
[04:04:34] <Tom_itx> i would
[04:04:46] <renesis> might be a diode or a vreg
[04:04:58] <zeeshan> its a little weird that the sensor 5v
[04:05:04] <zeeshan> is on the output (digital side)
[04:05:07] <zeeshan> that makes 0 sense to me.
[04:05:26] <zeeshan> i finally got my multimeter
[04:05:31] <zeeshan> so ican finally PROBE
[04:06:02] <renesis> how is it weird, its an analog supply
[04:07:23] <Tom_itx> they could separate the supplies for noise reasons
[04:08:23] <renesis> yeah on one encoder connector it looks like they have isolated shielding
[04:09:02] <renesis> on the other, looks like they have isolated sensor and digital power
[04:09:38] <Tom_itx> similar to split supplies on mesa cards where you have field power
[04:10:38] <renesis> most mixed analog digital ic have split supplies
[04:11:19] <renesis> zeeshan: yours might not even use the Sensor Up pin
[04:11:58] <Tom_itx> what's the pinout on the sensor itself?
[04:13:08] <renesis> theres lots of possibilities
[04:13:39] <renesis> Up on the input is connected to Sensor Up on the output
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[04:14:23] <renesis> Up on the input is connected to Up on the output, and Sensor Up is not used on your model
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[04:15:07] <renesis> Up on the input is connected to Up on the output, and Sensor Up is used for the analog circuitry on the sensor side of the PCBA
[04:15:20] <cnc4clay> +cradek: I did a new install and linuxcnc worked so I exited it and restarted it and, you guessed it, after a few minutes it locked up. I did a reboot and after about 5 minutes it locked up. So it is another problem not linuxcnc. The computer worked fine with mythbuntu!
[04:16:04] <renesis> zeeshan: theres an email and phone number on the bottom
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[04:22:11] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: You use a taig or a sherline, right?
[04:25:55] <cradek> cnc4clay: I wonder if you might have a heat problem
[04:26:17] <zeeshan> okay
[04:26:26] <zeeshan> so when i probe between 1b on the input
[04:26:28] <cradek> old machines collect goop in their heat sinks and fans
[04:26:33] <zeeshan> to 2a, 2b, 1a, 1b on output
[04:26:36] <zeeshan> i get continuity
[04:26:38] <zeeshan> wut\!
[04:26:43] <zeeshan> makes no sense :P
[04:26:55] <zeeshan> why is there continuity between 0V and 5v!!
[04:28:49] <renesis> cap
[04:29:04] <renesis> must suck to know less about this shit than a moron
[04:29:39] <zeeshan> ok thanks for your help.
[04:29:50] <zeeshan> ill follow the traces myself and not require your help anymore
[04:29:52] <zeeshan> cu!
[04:29:57] <renesis> bye
[04:30:16] <zeeshan> obv you couldnt figure it out either
[04:30:20] <zeeshan> so that makes 2 morons
[04:30:23] <renesis> i just said cap
[04:30:58] <renesis> initially, you always get continuity on a drained supply
[04:31:37] <renesis> how long depends on how big the cap is, and how drained, meter just see current happened and calls it continuous
[04:32:23] <zeeshan> lol the traces
[04:32:28] <zeeshan> on the other side make it so easy to see whats going on
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[04:32:55] <zeeshan> the traces from 1b @ input side to 2b, 2a @ output
[04:32:56] <zeeshan> are connected
[04:32:57] <renesis> yeah does not look like a complicated pcba
[04:33:03] <zeeshan> duhhh
[04:35:15] <zeeshan> okay this is easy
[04:35:43] <zeeshan> 1a input (0v) is connected to 1a and 1b on ouput
[04:35:56] <zeeshan> everything else i dont care about
[04:36:18] <zeeshan> i think the reason there is a sensor up and sensor 0v to begin with
[04:36:26] <zeeshan> is because the idp181 model requires it
[04:36:30] <zeeshan> but mine doesnt use it
[04:36:46] <renesis> are they continuous
[04:36:53] <zeeshan> the traceS?
[04:37:07] <zeeshan> yes
[04:37:11] <zeeshan> theres no components in between
[04:37:13] <renesis> no the sensor uP on the in and output
[04:37:15] <renesis> at the pin header
[04:37:24] <renesis> then yeah, you dont have that
[04:37:41] <renesis> you have isolated shields, which is cool
[04:38:06] <zeeshan> on the input side?
[04:38:46] <renesis> the shield pins are prob gonnected to ground at the pcba connector
[04:38:50] <zeeshan> the pin 1a (input) which labels "inside sheild"
[04:39:05] <renesis> and then in the encoder they would be connected to shields that dont share the signal ground
[04:39:20] <zeeshan> goes to the raytheon rc4157m t9728 chip
[04:40:03] <zeeshan> on the datasheet
[04:40:07] <zeeshan> that pin is "-Vs"
[04:40:35] <renesis> its maybe negative rail
[04:41:11] <renesis> and inside shield might be the negative rail in the encoder
[04:41:36] <zeeshan> il need to check that
[04:41:38] <renesis> it says Vpp, which usually suggests gnd biased AC
[04:41:52] <renesis> which prob means negative rails
[04:41:57] <zeeshan> i was thinking up and 0v were the sensor power stuff
[04:42:10] <zeeshan> and inside shield was the sheild on the cable
[04:42:21] <renesis> -Vs might just be an analog ground
[04:42:29] <zeeshan> yea i am pretty sure its just a ground
[04:42:43] <renesis> and the raytheon chip just has it on a reference input
[04:43:24] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, sherline
[04:43:44] <renesis> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/RC4157M/?qs=DBUMZ2Yty90uFehn0%2FEnoA%3D%3D
[04:43:47] <zeeshan> im looking at the block diagram
[04:43:48] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Working on a toolchanger you might be interested in.
[04:43:53] <zeeshan> pin 11, aka -vs
[04:43:59] <zeeshan> is the reference pin like youre saying
[04:44:03] <renesis> quad amp, pretty fast, +/-20V
[04:44:05] <zeeshan> negative side
[04:44:18] <renesis> it prob has a negative rail
[04:44:34] <zeeshan> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/149/Fairchild_datasheet-20-364953.pdf
[04:44:36] <zeeshan> page 7
[04:44:37] <renesis> prob has a >5 positive rail too
[04:44:40] <zeeshan> you can see pin 11 on the right
[04:45:31] <renesis> thats not a reference pin thats a psu pin
[04:45:40] <renesis> normal quad amp pinout
[04:46:04] <renesis> notice it doesnt exist in the block diagram
[04:46:06] <zeeshan> fak op amps
[04:46:13] <zeeshan> i dont get em
[04:46:16] <renesis> wow
[04:48:56] <zeeshan> im looking at the pinout from the glass scales
[04:49:01] <zeeshan> pin 9 literally says "Shield"
[04:49:07] <renesis> that shit has 5V of dropout voltage with a 15V bipolar supply
[04:49:13] <zeeshan> pin 4 is ground
[04:49:25] <zeeshan> renesis: you're speaking alien to me
[04:49:26] <renesis> of the opamp
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[04:50:07] <LeelooMinai> I wonder why most of the VFDs on aliezpress are 220V at least
[04:50:08] <renesis> that opamp wont work with 5V supplies
[04:50:22] <zeeshan> renesis: ??
[04:50:26] <renesis> so theres a boost supply somewhere
[04:50:27] <zeeshan> heidenhain's spec says use 5v
[04:50:50] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: DO you have some VFD for your machine?
[04:50:51] <renesis> well then the raytheon chip is diff
[04:50:56] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: 3
[04:51:10] <renesis> zeeshan: whats vs+ connected to
[04:51:18] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: How did you get them?
[04:51:44] <zeeshan> internets ebay
[04:51:47] <zeeshan> and ex-boss
[04:52:07] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... Chinese ones are almost all 220V
[04:52:20] <zeeshan> renesis: i cant tell
[04:52:23] <zeeshan> its hard to follow that trace
[04:52:30] <zeeshan> cause it flips over using pads
[04:52:32] <zeeshan> a bunch of times
[04:52:40] <renesis> what
[04:52:41] <zeeshan> but idid notice something else
[04:52:50] <renesis> are their coils on the board
[04:53:03] <zeeshan> theres a trace going from 2b aka 0v on input
[04:53:12] <zeeshan> to 1a
[04:53:17] <zeeshan> aka inside shield
[04:53:24] <zeeshan> its a small trace right at the connector
[04:53:51] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: what hp
[04:54:21] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Well, you know, if I want to use normal socket I am limited to what, 15A or so, so 1600 watt
[04:54:21] <zeeshan> renesis: so that pretty much means
[04:54:23] <zeeshan> theyre both ground :P
[04:54:35] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: so about 1hp then
[04:54:50] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Isn't that 2?
[04:54:55] <zeeshan> no
[04:55:11] <zeeshan> when you consider power factor correct
[04:55:14] <zeeshan> correction
[04:55:17] <renesis> 1hp = ~750W
[04:55:20] <zeeshan> you can only drive a 3 phase 1hp motor
[04:55:29] <zeeshan> when you use a 120vac single phase input
[04:55:49] <zeeshan> 1hp 220v motor that is
[04:55:53] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's supposed to be for a spindle
[04:56:21] <LeelooMinai> Not sure how to match all of this - normal 110V socket and 2.2 kW spindle
[04:56:23] <zeeshan> cheapest new one i could find was this one:
[04:56:42] <renesis> zeeshan: then theres either a boost supply, or they raytheon and fairchild parts are not equiv
[04:56:51] <zeeshan> renesis: prolly not equiv
[04:56:53] <zeeshan> and theres no coils
[04:56:55] <renesis> that opamp in the datasheet does not run at 5v
[04:57:06] <cnc4clay> +crandek: The computer had been working continuously for the past 3 months without a problem. I will take a look. If that doesn't solve it I will try installing just wheezy and see if that works. Take care and will check it tomorrow. Thanks
[04:57:13] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_115V/FM50-101-C.html
[04:57:14] <renesis> could be capacitive charge pumps or something goofy
[04:57:24] <zeeshan> but note that drive is a pos when it comes to communications
[04:57:27] <zeeshan> theres no modbus or anything
[04:57:34] <zeeshan> its a simple scalar drive.
[04:58:50] <zeeshan> out of the circuit boards ive seen
[04:58:55] <zeeshan> this heidenhain looks so pretty
[04:59:02] <renesis> ?
[04:59:09] <zeeshan> its nicely laid out
[05:00:08] <renesis> caps are placed too close to the connector insertion area on the right side
[05:00:09] <zeeshan> maybe its cause its not multilayered
[05:00:15] <zeeshan> like a motherbaord
[05:00:34] <renesis> it looks functional
[05:01:08] <renesis> which isnt bad, but it looked like some parts were difficult, or autorouted, because certain places look messy
[05:01:29] <renesis> and there are a lot of vias
[05:01:35] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/4ttXlqf.jpg
[05:01:40] <zeeshan> even thats well layed out
[05:01:54] <renesis> thats sexy as fuck
[05:01:58] <renesis> thats totally different
[05:02:02] <zeeshan> from a mechanical perspective
[05:02:26] <zeeshan> i think its cause of the symmetry
[05:02:28] <zeeshan> and patterning
[05:02:46] <renesis> caps are too close if coupling can cause issues
[05:03:22] <renesis> symmetry and patterns are usually a good things, means the designer was sane and it prob wasnt just done by a computer
[05:03:45] <zeeshan> i dont know what they call it
[05:03:47] <renesis> the other board looks like a guy who barely cares throw down some parts, laid some power traces, and hit autoroute
[05:03:53] <zeeshan> but sometimes they do a wiggle on the traces
[05:04:09] <renesis> thats for inpedence matching
[05:04:11] <zeeshan> i think to either add resistance or make them
[05:04:16] <renesis> impedence
[05:04:16] <zeeshan> this doesnt have that
[05:04:25] <zeeshan> ah okay
[05:04:48] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: wake up
[05:05:20] <renesis> you can add resistance and inductance, itll work with trace capacitance to whatever, another differencial trace, a ground plane
[05:05:28] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EATON-NFX9000-MODEL-NFXF25A0-1-DRIVE-/171328674967?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e3fc1c97
[05:05:30] <zeeshan> this be a nice drive
[05:05:34] <zeeshan> er nm
[05:05:36] <zeeshan> .25hp
[05:05:47] <renesis> and create a filter to smooth signals, or to get rid of noise, or couple it to a diff pair
[05:05:55] <zeeshan> renesis: howd you learn electronics
[05:06:34] <renesis> wtf i should ban your ass in #electronics
[05:06:35] <renesis> again
[05:06:51] <zeeshan> go ahead
[05:06:53] <zeeshan> i dont join there anymore
[05:07:18] <zeeshan> theres like 4 active people in that channel
[05:07:25] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+o Jymmm] by ChanServ
[05:07:44] <renesis> prob more like a dozen
[05:07:55] <zeeshan> most of those people are on freenode electronics
[05:07:59] <zeeshan> which is a much friendlier channel
[05:08:07] <renesis> and some people who arent around much have been around least 10 years
[05:08:18] <zeeshan> so i could care less ! :)
[05:08:35] <renesis> well its freenode, freenode has rules
[05:08:43] <zeeshan> i'm glad
[05:08:45] <zeeshan> even this channel is great
[05:08:53] <zeeshan> sometimes it gets heated, but people are still generally good
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[05:09:08] <renesis> anyway, you may want to learn more about a persons background and capabilities before theyre deciding theyre idiots and incapable
[05:09:19] <renesis> (sic)
[05:09:22] <zeeshan> lets not start this again
[05:09:56] <renesis> haha, start what again you didnt stop being zeeshaan lately
[05:10:07] <renesis> zeeshaan is an ongoing thing
[05:10:17] <zeeshan> ignored
[05:10:24] <renesis> \o/
[05:10:25] <CaptHindsight> that boards looks like it was designed for through hole stuffing machines, it's all spaced very square
[05:10:43] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: dont you sleep!
[05:10:53] <renesis> yeah def
[05:11:08] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: I'm asleep right now you insensitive clod!
[05:11:14] <zeeshan> :-)
[05:11:38] <renesis> maybe done by hand
[05:11:41] <renesis> looks old
[05:12:14] <CaptHindsight> parts are from 1983
[05:12:18] -!- phragment has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[05:12:50] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [-b #linuxcnc!*@*] by Jymmm
[05:13:01] <CaptHindsight> and 1984
[05:13:15] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [-b phantoneD!*!*@*] by Jymmm
[05:13:38] <renesis> mixed electronics from that era blow my mind
[05:14:16] <CaptHindsight> it looks like CAD routed
[05:14:42] <renesis> one of exjobs had a b&k stroboscope, open it up and its like 8 boards stacked, edge to edge DIP IC, big caps, lots of ribbon cable
[05:15:14] <renesis> capthindsight: yeah everything exactly 45deg
[05:15:22] <CaptHindsight> I don't remember what we used back then for PCB CAD, it was manual
[05:15:33] <CaptHindsight> look closer lots of 90's
[05:16:03] <renesis> by the 90s, through holes and vias had teardrops, SMD was pretty common
[05:16:05] <CaptHindsight> http://i.imgur.com/4ttXlqf.jpg this board
[05:16:17] <renesis> lots of random angles and poly shapes
[05:16:50] <CaptHindsight> back in the 70's it was often drawn by hand
[05:17:06] <renesis> those boards are either ultra sexy or just scary
[05:17:35] <CaptHindsight> looked like abstract art
[05:17:48] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15536189301/
[05:17:52] <zeeshan> this one is my fav
[05:17:54] <renesis> yeah was all diff
[05:17:54] <zeeshan> cause of all the colors
[05:18:40] <zeeshan> so weird
[05:18:46] <zeeshan> im only using 1 output on the 7i77 board
[05:18:47] <zeeshan> lol
[05:18:54] <zeeshan> i must be forgetting something!
[05:19:01] <CaptHindsight> old analog and RF boards were crazy
[05:19:06] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: pics
[05:19:47] <renesis> google rf dead bug
[05:20:28] <renesis> http://frenning.dk/OZ1PIF_HOMEPAGE/6m_IRF510_250W_module.jpg
[05:20:28] <CaptHindsight> http://users.skynet.be/myspace/CB_stalker20/stalker%20xx%20CB%20radio%20teaberry_inside3.jpg
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[05:20:44] <renesis> ha, nice
[05:21:01] <renesis> trim caps and inductors everywhere
[05:21:13] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Thj9E8U.jpg
[05:21:17] <zeeshan> compare that with modern amplifiers
[05:21:18] <zeeshan> lame!
[05:21:41] <zeeshan> wow those are messy
[05:21:43] <renesis> how is that lame
[05:22:16] <zeeshan> there isnt much symmetry
[05:22:24] <renesis> to what?
[05:22:25] <zeeshan> it looks like a mess
[05:22:33] <renesis> which
[05:22:38] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Thj9E8U.jpg
[05:22:39] <zeeshan> that one
[05:22:48] <renesis> wtf?
[05:22:55] <renesis> how much symmetry do you need
[05:23:12] <zeeshan> i dunno what those round this w/ a flat head indent in them are
[05:23:16] <zeeshan> maybe pots
[05:23:21] <zeeshan> they look randomly placed
[05:23:23] <renesis> analog preamp right on the inputs, drops down into an amp with chassis heatsink
[05:23:28] <renesis> and nice isolation on the psu
[05:23:38] <zeeshan> the resistors and caps on the right
[05:23:42] <zeeshan> arent in line
[05:23:48] <zeeshan> theyve got a weird offset
[05:23:56] <zeeshan> the inductor isn't in the middle
[05:23:57] <zeeshan> its offset too
[05:24:00] <renesis> so youd rather a lined up china board?
[05:24:09] <zeeshan> no
[05:24:13] <zeeshan> im sure it performs great
[05:24:15] <renesis> things end up where they end up for a good layout
[05:24:18] <zeeshan> it just doesnt look mechanically placed
[05:24:27] <zeeshan> it doesnt look visually nice to me
[05:24:33] <renesis> if you have to budge something to get clearance so you get better performance
[05:24:42] <renesis> why the fuck wouldnt you do it, if you knew better?
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[05:26:36] <renesis> http://imgur.com/0QelFuF,NWGkazA#1
[05:27:16] <renesis> like, on that it would have been better to line up the output resistors?
[05:27:42] <CaptHindsight> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tjZ2Uaq3Msw/Uw3kK21efTI/AAAAAAAAHCg/-8RhR-prNJs/s1600/blogSherwood+S-8900A+h.jpg
[05:28:52] <renesis> that looks like 70s audio
[05:29:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=25229
[05:29:04] <renesis> swooshy traces
[05:29:49] <renesis> http://pacificstereo.net/tapeheads/9090/9090bottom.jpg
[05:29:52] <CaptHindsight> when I was a kid we used to dumpster dive behind Sherwood, they made amps and receivers
[05:29:57] <renesis> that looks hand taped =\ =\ =\
[05:30:35] <CaptHindsight> before the PC
[05:30:48] <CaptHindsight> and after tubes
[05:31:06] <renesis> tube stuff usually isnt pretty on the inside
[05:31:12] <renesis> you gotta be a tubehead to love that
[05:31:18] <CaptHindsight> archivist: must have some good pics
[05:31:36] <renesis> i like it because i <3 dead bug assembly, but its pretty ugly looking a lot of the time
[05:31:58] <CaptHindsight> there a place in Chicago that sells all this vintage solid state audio
[05:32:02] <renesis> and PCB layouts, the parts are so big the pcb are not so complicated
[05:32:20] <renesis> like home audio gear or everything?
[05:32:49] <renesis> vintage solid state is prob fire hazard
[05:32:58] <CaptHindsight> mostly home, but lots of crazy stuff from the 60's and 70's with gimmicky styling
[05:33:23] <renesis> haha, yeah its like interfaces didnt standardize until the late 70s
[05:34:08] <renesis> audio kind of followed porsche dashboards
[05:34:32] <renesis> just make everything out of black rectangles, controls are simple geometric shapes
[05:35:02] <renesis> thats only gone away in the last 10 years
[05:35:30] <renesis> dies with the home a/v receiver
[05:36:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/Micro-CPU_100.jpg $2000 in 1977
[05:36:42] <CaptHindsight> "the world's first computer controlled tuner"
[05:37:02] <renesis> i hope they mean a computer inside that thing
[05:37:14] <renesis> and not some sort of horrible rs232 ui
[05:37:34] <renesis> brushed aluminum box, the other block box
[05:37:39] <renesis> *black box
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[05:38:06] <renesis> heh @ radio tuner like an old speedometer
[05:38:16] <renesis> my alarm mclock still has one of those
[05:38:41] <CaptHindsight> 8bit CMOS CPU 768x8 RAM
[05:39:15] <CaptHindsight> sorry 768x8 ROM and 256x8 RAM
[05:40:14] <renesis> heh
[05:40:53] <renesis> thats prob like, hundreds of opcodes!
[05:42:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/Elf2K.htm my first computer project
[05:44:21] <CaptHindsight> AUGUST 1976
[05:44:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.incolor.com/bill_r/elf/html/elf-1-33.htm
[05:44:43] <Jymmm> Does anyone have any thoughts of getting text to align with concentric circles?
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[05:46:36] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: inkscape might do that
[05:46:52] <CaptHindsight> what are you stating with and what do you need for output?
[05:47:28] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I'm recreating this http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/812GVgp-DSL._SL1500_.jpg
[05:47:43] <renesis> capthindsight: ha cool
[05:47:56] <Jymmm> I have the text ok, it's the digits that are messing up on even spacing.
[05:48:25] <archivist> my first computer was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK14
[05:48:29] <renesis> solidworks will def do it
[05:48:52] <renesis> inkscape maybe works, <3 inkscape
[05:48:57] <CaptHindsight> it's easy with Illustrator
[05:49:37] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: how so?
[05:50:10] <CaptHindsight> you draw the circles and then use them as paths for the text
[05:50:37] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: This is three concentric circles, the A, A, 1 MUST align
[05:50:44] <renesis> http://3.imimg.com/data3/WO/AQ/MY-263337/8085-microprocessor-trainer-led-ver-st808501-500x500.jpg
[05:50:48] <renesis> i learned on that
[05:51:24] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: text-on-a-path isn't the issue, it's apcing/ kerning, and alignment.
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[05:51:50] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: I've done it in Illustrator
[05:51:58] <renesis> archivist: could you program your thing from the keypad?
[05:52:27] <CaptHindsight> you can move it around and adjust kerning, track, spacing etc
[05:52:35] <archivist> renesis, yes
[05:52:49] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: it takes some practice
[05:53:20] <renesis> archivist: hardcore, that was actually pretty fun
[05:53:44] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Semiconductor_SC/MP
[05:54:10] <renesis> <3 natsemi
[05:54:15] <archivist> took about half an hour to type moon lander in....
[05:54:23] <renesis> i want to make a hoodie with their last logo
[05:54:32] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_1802
[05:56:46] <CaptHindsight> "DRINK MORE OVALTINE"
[05:56:47] <renesis> unless their is a trick in inkscape it looks really labor intensive
[05:57:02] <renesis> like, align each character and rotate individually =\
[05:57:04] <CaptHindsight> it is even in Illustrator
[05:57:30] <renesis> i dont see any path following option
[05:59:41] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwOYO9cAows How to Put Text on Path (Tips and Tricks) - Inkscape Tutorial
[06:01:00] <renesis> jymmm: solidworks is following curves, has font width and spacing
[06:01:55] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XULoT5rTCYE Text Along Path - GIMP 2.8 Tutorial
[06:02:27] <CaptHindsight> I don't think GIMP gives you the same amount of text control
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[06:04:49] <renesis> cool, itll full justify around a circle
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[07:37:35] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[07:37:37] <Loetmichel> *great*... tipped off my desk chair this morning... no, i am not drunk, the chairs seat plate has broken off the lift :-(
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[07:56:35] <Deejay> moin
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[11:52:55] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ
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[12:31:04] * Loetmichel just installed wioin 2008R2 foundation on an ibm server... darn boss, why are you so cheap? had to install a 2008 eval to start the (fujitsu) 2008r2 setup.exe, because if i boot from the foundatuion dvd it says "no fujitsu system, please contact your hardware supplier"
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[13:06:19] <_methods> http://1clickbom.com/
[13:07:26] <Loetmichel> _methods: ???
[13:07:55] <_methods> it's a bom builder for electronics
[13:08:10] <_methods> orders from major electronics suppliers
[13:08:41] <_methods> i know a lot of people in here build their own circuits
[13:09:19] <_methods> https://github.com/monostable/1clickBOM
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[15:09:48] <archivist> CaptHindsight, that email thread http://xkcd.com/1445/
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[15:16:18] <CaptHindsight> it's still going
[15:16:28] <archivist> I know :)
[15:18:17] <archivist> I seem to think no one has mentioned the gantry support rails could be the source of error
[15:19:49] <archivist> are the two outer rails parallel etc
[15:24:46] <_methods> the whole thing is insane
[15:24:52] <_methods> all that to put a v groove
[15:25:12] <_methods> just get a chamfer mill and use a real cnc
[15:26:32] <_methods> man i had to change my mailing list settings because of that insanity
[15:26:59] <_methods> had to put it in digest mode
[15:28:06] <_methods> and for christs sake why not just have the saw head spring loaded and have a follower guide then it would stay the same height the whole way
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[15:30:11] <_methods> or have stationary blades and feed rollers that push the material through................
[15:31:16] <CaptHindsight> I just marked them all read and skipped most
[15:31:50] <archivist> worrying about a few thou on wood
[15:31:51] <_methods> once i saw the video............ mind blown
[15:32:30] <_methods> if i ever teach any engineering classes.....that will be my example of overengineering
[15:33:10] <_methods> a router table with a fence and a feed wheel will do that all day long
[15:35:27] <CaptHindsight> now I have to see the video :)
[15:35:47] <archivist> wobbly vision
[15:37:01] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFqM_3r4vMs
[15:37:11] <_methods> it's insane in da membrane
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[15:40:05] <CaptHindsight> heh
[15:41:05] <CaptHindsight> does it only move the cutting tools X and Z?
[15:41:12] <_methods> yeah lol
[15:42:26] <archivist> https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7190/13911138834_9f4bc62d67_z.jpg
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[16:00:51] <tjtr33> re: the bamboo rod cnc. look at any other flyrod machine...
[16:00:52] <tjtr33> they dont use a long bed, they cut over a wheel, so single point support, no chance for this error
[16:05:58] <CaptHindsight> well it looked impressive on paper
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[16:16:54] <fuzzy7k> Hi all, I'm in the process of setting up a netbootable image of linuxcnc using gentoo.
[16:17:41] <fuzzy7k> I see the EmcOnGentoo wiki page, which is obviously outdated.
[16:17:49] <CaptHindsight> yes
[16:17:56] <fuzzy7k> Does anyone have an ebuild for linuxcnc?
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[16:20:57] <CaptHindsight> we build it for specific hardware and then copy it to other machines
[16:21:23] <fuzzy7k> Second question, if not, can I take the emc2 ebuild and just change the header info?
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[16:21:46] <fuzzy7k> So do you build on gentoo or something else?
[16:21:56] <CaptHindsight> a few months ago somebody started a new wiki, but I'll have to look for the location
[16:22:03] <CaptHindsight> we build on Gentoo
[16:22:29] <fuzzy7k> do you have a recent ebuild in your local overlay?
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[16:22:46] <CaptHindsight> memleak does all the RTAI development using Gentoo as well
[16:23:34] <CaptHindsight> I'll have to ask him later
[16:24:21] <fuzzy7k> ok, thanks.
[16:24:49] <CaptHindsight> http://sourceforge.net/projects/gentoocnc/
[16:25:55] <CaptHindsight> not sure how far they got
[16:27:11] <fuzzy7k> beautiful, that should give me something to work with for a while.
[16:27:23] <fuzzy7k> Thanks!
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[16:43:37] <zeeshan> hi
[16:43:38] <zeeshan> :]
[16:43:41] <ssi> h
[16:43:44] <ssi> i
[16:44:45] <zeeshan> whats up dude
[16:44:54] <ssi> nothin
[16:44:56] <ssi> at work :(
[16:45:02] <zeeshan> youre actually working!
[16:45:10] <ssi> no, I'm AT work
[16:45:14] <zeeshan> haha
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[17:10:30] <jdh> work is good.
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[17:25:01] <fuzzy7k> Is the maintainer of the gentoocnc sourceforge project here?
[17:25:23] <CaptHindsight> afaik only on the mail list
[17:25:35] <fuzzy7k> Ok, thanks
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[17:29:27] <fuzzy7k> Is that emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
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[17:33:16] <CaptHindsight> yes, they were on the dev list
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[17:33:51] <CaptHindsight> last activity was early March of this year
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[17:50:12] <zeeshan> this might be an odd question but if you have L1 and L2 (2 pole)
[17:50:15] <zeeshan> and you only break L1
[17:50:17] <zeeshan> what happens?
[17:50:21] * zeeshan has never tried this
[17:50:36] <zeeshan> say L1 and L2 are connected to a 240V single phase motor
[17:50:41] <CaptHindsight> fuzzy7k: #linuxcnc-devel is mostly development with little OT and socializing, but I haven't noticed anyone from that Gentoo project there
[17:50:53] <archivist> the other side stays live
[17:50:58] <zeeshan> but the motor stays off
[17:50:59] <zeeshan> right?
[17:51:05] <zeeshan> *turns off
[17:51:18] <CaptHindsight> yes, but it's still hot
[17:51:34] <fuzzy7k> Ok, I'll check it out. Thanks again.
[17:51:34] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: If you mean there are two connections to the power supply only from the motor, and both are isolated - then yes - isolating only one will make it stop
[17:51:37] <archivist> electrickery needs a circuit for current to flow
[17:51:38] <SpeedEvil> but may not be safe
[17:51:43] <SpeedEvil> archivist: lies
[17:51:54] * SpeedEvil puts archivist in a microwave oven.
[17:52:11] * archivist puts SpeedEvil in a gas oven
[17:52:38] <DaViruz> a microwave oven is just stretching to concept of a circuit a little
[17:52:51] <DaViruz> the
[17:53:53] <zeeshan> hey guys
[17:53:55] <zeeshan> ww2 is long over
[17:54:05] <zeeshan> :P
[17:54:52] * archivist digs a moat along the english border to keep the scots out
[17:56:16] * roycroft rebuilds hadrian's wall to keep the english out
[17:57:08] <ssi> lul
[17:58:28] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15567129830/in/photostream/lightbox/
[17:58:31] <zeeshan> need sanity check
[17:58:56] <zeeshan> DS is a pressure switch that trips when pressure reaches 20 bar. WS is a level indicator which opens if fluid level is low
[17:59:08] * DaViruz rebuilds the berlin wall to keep the east germans in
[17:59:30] <zeeshan> currently the control cabinet has a wire going from pin 1 of DS and pin 3 of WS & DS
[17:59:46] <zeeshan> so i'm imagining the wiring is like this:
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[18:00:09] <Connor> what is DK ? :)
[18:00:19] <zeeshan> +24VDC -> pin 3 of WS (will be closed if fluid level is NOT low) -> pin 2 common of ds and ws -> pin 1 of ds (only when pressure has been reached) -> 7i77 input pin
[18:00:25] <zeeshan> this signal is basically an ERROR signal
[18:00:47] <zeeshan> if this is active, that means everything is ok. keep running the pump
[18:01:08] <zeeshan> connor dk will come in a bit :P
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[18:01:38] <zeeshan> er i messed that up.
[18:01:47] <zeeshan> sigh :P
[18:02:11] <zeeshan> control cabinet wire is going to pin 1 and 2. not 1 and 3.
[18:03:01] <Connor> right. 3 would be your common.. be it +24v
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[18:03:28] <zeeshan> +24VDC -> pin 2 of WS (will be closed if fluid level is NOT low) -> pin 3 common of ds and ws -> pin 1 of ds (only when pressure has been reached) -> 7i77 input pin
[18:04:26] <zeeshan> this is confusing.
[18:04:37] <Connor> you may not need to connect pin 3 to anything.
[18:04:48] <zeeshan> yea i know that
[18:04:52] <zeeshan> its only pin 1 and 2 connected
[18:04:59] <zeeshan> but the thing is im not getting the operation.. im thinking this:
[18:05:14] <Connor> okay.. so, it's a NO and a NC switch in series...
[18:05:35] <zeeshan> if the input is @ 0VDC you know pressure has not built up so keep running the pump? (because there will be flow of electricity through level indicator switch, but not pressure switch)
[18:05:51] <zeeshan> if input is @ 24VDC that means pressure switch has closed
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[18:06:08] <zeeshan> but if level indicator switch is open, then input will be at 0VDC and the pump will keep running
[18:06:09] <zeeshan> which makes nos ense
[18:06:12] <zeeshan> * sense
[18:06:52] <Connor> well.. probe the switches and confirm the state they're in..
[18:07:03] <zeeshan> i did
[18:07:13] <zeeshan> i also have the manual which confrism it
[18:07:23] <zeeshan> level indicator opens if fluid is low. its NC.
[18:07:32] <zeeshan> pressure switch is NO. closes when reaches 20 bar
[18:08:09] <Connor> okay. So, have you checked to see if maybe 3 is grounded to chassis ?
[18:08:23] <zeeshan> no
[18:08:27] <Connor> if they're only running 1 & 2 to control ?
[18:08:28] <zeeshan> it doesnt ground to chassis
[18:08:33] <zeeshan> pin 3 has 2 wires going into it
[18:08:43] <zeeshan> from each switch's leg
[18:08:53] <zeeshan> like you said earlier
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[18:09:05] <zeeshan> DS and WS are NO and NC switches in series
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[18:09:28] <zeeshan> which kinda makes no sense :P
[18:10:15] <Connor> and nothing to indicate where 3 went ? if anywhere ?
[18:10:25] <zeeshan> 3 was never going to the control cabinet
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[18:10:40] <zeeshan> if you look at the pic @ the terminal block
[18:10:49] <zeeshan> you'll see theres 2 brown wires connected @ pin3
[18:10:54] <SpeedEvil> Anyone in the UK have a preferred source of extrusions/... that delivers?
[18:11:00] <zeeshan> those brown wires are coming from DS+WS's switch legs
[18:11:33] <zeeshan> i wish i had paid more attention to this part of ripping out wires from the control cabinet
[18:11:41] <zeeshan> i honestly thought this was a self timed unit
[18:11:42] <zeeshan> but its not
[18:11:43] <Connor> Ok, throw a probe on #3 and to the chassis of the machine.. and see if it tones out.
[18:12:05] <zeeshan> ok brb
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[18:17:09] <zeeshan> nope
[18:17:17] <zeeshan> no continuity between pin 3 and chassis
[18:17:40] <Connor> and no signs of a broken wire or one that was suppose to go there ...
[18:17:45] <zeeshan> yep
[18:18:22] <zeeshan> my friend just gave me some info from his plc controlled central lubricator (similar to my central lubricator)
[18:18:54] <zeeshan> three alarms will be displayed: 1. if (external) pressure switch does not detect pressure 45secs after the motor is on 2. if (external) pressure switch detects pressure if lubrication is off and pause period has expired 3. if lubrication is locked with M84 command longer than 90secs
[18:19:25] <zeeshan> so it's a timed input.
[18:19:45] <Connor> okay.
[18:20:07] <zeeshan> so basically if input is at 0VDC for 45 seconds after motor is on, error is thrown (which will be the case if DS is open)
[18:20:36] <zeeshan> but if ds closes in that time period it will keep running
[18:20:43] <zeeshan> but if WS opens then input will go back to 0.
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[18:21:18] <Connor> WS is the safety interlock for the circuit.. DS is the "timed" sensor input
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[18:21:31] <zeeshan> yes
[18:21:35] <Connor> You have your answer. :)
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[18:22:05] <Connor> What is this for ?
[18:22:07] <zeeshan> the confusing is still not completed!
[18:22:11] <zeeshan> for the mill
[18:22:14] <zeeshan> central lub
[18:22:20] <Connor> okay.. oiler..
[18:23:17] <Connor> okay.. what are you confused about ?
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[18:24:12] <Connor> DS is present to make sure that pressure is present and maintained.. and if it's not.. it shuts down the pump because that most likely means a line broke.
[18:24:31] <zeeshan> yes
[18:24:42] <zeeshan> basically i have 4 conditions
[18:24:51] <zeeshan> that'll put things into alarm mode and turn off the pump
[18:26:03] <zeeshan> the other confusion is power to the pump
[18:26:13] <Connor> ok
[18:26:22] <zeeshan> control cabinet has wires going to:
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[18:26:30] <zeeshan> pin 4 5 8
[18:26:34] <zeeshan> and ground ofcourse
[18:26:50] <zeeshan> DK is a manual push button switch.
[18:26:59] <zeeshan> SL1 is an light
[18:27:01] <zeeshan> *light
[18:27:14] <zeeshan> -an = a :P
[18:27:31] <Connor> okay. 5 has something written below it...
[18:27:38] <zeeshan> so its pretty clear that if i wire something to 5 and 8
[18:27:39] <Connor> I think it's a N.. that would be for Neutral
[18:27:41] <zeeshan> the pump motor turns on
[18:27:52] <zeeshan> mine is currently setup for 220V
[18:27:54] <zeeshan> so its L1 and L2
[18:28:09] <zeeshan> nothing is written below pin 5
[18:28:14] <zeeshan> its just a piece of crap there
[18:28:17] <zeeshan> i need to vacuum it out
[18:28:24] <zeeshan> i have no clue how metal chips got in there with the cover on.
[18:28:44] <zeeshan> nema 4 my ass!
[18:28:50] <Connor> No. Right above the wire.. it's clearly black writing.
[18:28:53] <Connor> on 5
[18:29:13] <Connor> I can't see all of it because the wire from 4 loops over top of it.
[18:29:38] <zeeshan> lemme go look
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[18:31:06] <zeeshan> all i gotta say is
[18:31:10] <zeeshan> youve got hawk eyes
[18:31:11] <zeeshan> haha
[18:31:16] <zeeshan> how the hell did you see that
[18:31:27] <Connor> Umm.. High Def picture and Zoom
[18:31:35] <zeeshan> i still dont see it
[18:31:37] <zeeshan> im zoomed in
[18:31:37] <zeeshan> !
[18:31:44] <zeeshan> time for glasses for me
[18:31:57] <Connor> But, is is there ?
[18:32:02] <zeeshan> pic coming up
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[18:32:08] <zeeshan> yes its a N
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[18:32:12] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15642968058/
[18:32:58] <Connor> 220 Has no neutral...
[18:33:07] <zeeshan> yes
[18:33:08] <Connor> so.. that's only there if your using it 110
[18:33:55] <Connor> How many wires going into 8 ?
[18:34:33] <zeeshan> this iss such a bs wiring diagram
[18:34:42] <zeeshan> anyway enough whining
[18:34:50] <zeeshan> theres one wire coming from control cabinet to 8
[18:35:01] <zeeshan> and then there is another wire going to the coil of the motor
[18:35:13] <Connor> Okay.
[18:35:19] <Connor> I understand now.
[18:35:26] <Connor> 4 is a manual button.
[18:35:29] <zeeshan> yes
[18:35:42] <Connor> 8 is L1 or L2
[18:36:36] <Connor> so, 8 would be hooked up to a contactor int he control cabinet.
[18:36:51] <zeeshan> i think im gonna use a relay
[18:36:55] <Connor> questions is, were is the other end of the circuit.
[18:36:56] <zeeshan> cause its such a small amount of current
[18:36:58] <zeeshan> yes :P
[18:37:07] <zeeshan> the only thing that makes logical sense to me
[18:37:12] <Connor> is it on the motor itself.. ?
[18:37:29] <Connor> and how do you know this is low current ?
[18:37:44] <Connor> I see no current info for the motor.. just for the 2 switches..
[18:38:01] <zeeshan> i have so many windows open i lost the pic
[18:38:02] <zeeshan> haha
[18:38:26] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15208336383/
[18:38:29] <zeeshan> motor specsare on the motor
[18:38:56] <zeeshan> http://www.ebmpapst.com/en/products/motors/shaded-pole_motors/shaded-pole_motors_detail.php?pID=98603
[18:38:57] <Connor> I don't see how many amps it pulls
[18:39:00] <zeeshan> 0.5A
[18:39:10] <Connor> ok
[18:39:51] <zeeshan> okay so im thinking it works like this:
[18:40:11] <zeeshan> fuse holder 0.5A -> L1 -> pin #4
[18:40:18] <zeeshan> in parallel from that same fuse holder
[18:40:38] <zeeshan> -> L1 -> relay contact -> pin 5
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[18:41:52] <Connor> NO
[18:42:02] <Connor> not L1 to relay to pin 5
[18:42:09] <Connor> L1 to relay to pin 8
[18:42:13] <Connor> l2 on p5
[18:42:56] <Connor> SL1 will light up when DK is pressed.. or power applied to p8
[18:43:02] <Connor> as well as the motor will turn on.
[18:43:06] * zeeshan thinks about this.
[18:43:26] <Connor> 8 and 4 are parallel to each other..
[18:43:41] <Connor> so, you can't hook one side up to L1 and other the other up to L2 without shorting out.
[18:44:55] <zeeshan> what goes to pin 4then
[18:45:04] <zeeshan> i see the motor working correctly with l1 at pin 8
[18:45:07] <zeeshan> and l2 on p5
[18:45:18] <Connor> L1 ON PIN 4 TOO
[18:45:29] <zeeshan> okay i'm slow
[18:45:30] <zeeshan> i see it now :)
[18:47:08] <zeeshan> its so weird
[18:47:13] <zeeshan> only l1 is being switched
[18:47:21] <jdh> s/its/I\'m/
[18:47:31] <zeeshan> i thought in 240v circuits
[18:47:34] <zeeshan> you had to switch both l1 and l2
[18:47:40] <zeeshan> for safety.
[18:47:49] <Connor> normally you do.
[18:49:16] <Connor> But, since this is all enclosed.. they probably feel that it's safe.
[18:49:25] <jdh> I have a 240vac coil on my compressor contactor. It's creepy working near it since one side is always hot
[18:50:52] <zeeshan> hehe
[18:51:01] <zeeshan> i guess this is why you have lockout procedures
[18:51:39] <Connor> You might be able to use some sort of timed relay in that mix so that you don't have to use linuxcnc logic to handle it..
[18:51:51] <zeeshan> Connor: i'd like to do a couple things
[18:51:57] <zeeshan> i want to ensure machine is on
[18:52:03] <zeeshan> axis are active
[18:52:10] <zeeshan> only then lubrication will be on
[18:52:17] <zeeshan> otherwise it'll sit there wasting oil while the machine is idle
[18:53:05] * zeeshan wishes he didnt give away his 24vdc relays
[18:53:07] <zeeshan> :-(
[18:53:10] <zeeshan> i had like 10
[18:53:18] <zeeshan> i gave em to my buddy
[18:53:25] <zeeshan> now i need 3
[18:53:27] <zeeshan> :{
[18:53:30] * zeeshan calls friend
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[18:55:21] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: Have you looked at RS for extrusions? I seem to recall that they are surprisingly competitive
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[18:57:13] <andypugh> Or maybe Marchant Dice: http://www.worldofcnc.com/collections/retrofit-frame/products/aluminium-structural-section-profile
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[18:59:44] <jdh> Connor: got your ballscrews in?
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[19:06:55] <Loetmichel> *haach, better* now i can sit again. not the most beautiful chair but cheap and works...-> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15395 ... on the copntray to the chair that had tipped me off to the ground this morning: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15392
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[19:15:08] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: thanks
[19:16:31] <zeeshan> summary of control of lubricator:
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[19:26:15] <Connor> jdh Installed? No. Not yet. just got 2 of the 3 ballnut mounts made.. Still need to mill out the base of the mill and make the X ballnut mount.
[19:26:38] <jdh> Loetmichel: I think I had that same chair. The material teh bolts went in to dissolved.
[19:26:57] <jdh> I 'fixed' it for a year or so with a piece of 1/4" plywood
[19:27:09] <zeeshan> ER
[19:27:11] <zeeshan> fak.
[19:27:19] <jdh> coudl you scream a little louder please?
[19:27:45] <jdh> Connor: the X one is pretty simple
[19:27:49] <Connor> Yea.
[19:28:17] <zeeshan> connor if you have a sec
[19:28:18] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15828728265/
[19:28:19] <jdh> Leeloominaiaasdf could whip that out in 5 mins with a drillpress anda file.
[19:28:21] <zeeshan> does this logic make sense? :)
[19:28:49] <jdh> z: just write it in ladder
[19:29:20] <zeeshan> using classic ladder?
[19:29:30] <jdh> yes
[19:30:07] <zeeshan> okay
[19:30:10] <zeeshan> that looks way more familiar
[19:30:11] <zeeshan> ahha
[19:30:18] <zeeshan> it woulda been a nightmare trying to do it in hal config
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[19:40:23] <andypugh> I would have written a HAL component for that, I think. Oneshots and timers would probably work, though.
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[19:50:37] <Connor> andypugh: When you write a component like that.. what would it be.. a python script? or true C or what ?
[19:51:00] <andypugh> C
[19:51:16] <andypugh> (well, .comp preprocessing really)
[19:51:48] <andypugh> Have you not seen http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/docs/2.7/html/hal/comp.html ?
[19:52:05] <Connor> I've looked at it..
[19:52:15] <Connor> never written a custom comp though
[19:52:35] <andypugh> If you already know C it’s really easy. If you don’t it isn;t :-)
[19:52:56] <Connor> I do know C, but, I'm a tad rusty.
[19:54:58] <andypugh> The logic presented would probably have to be written as a state-machine. One thing about .comp code is that it has to run straight through to completion every time it is called.
[19:55:30] <zeeshan> MAN
[19:55:35] <zeeshan> these comb bus bars are AWESOME
[19:57:02] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15828894215/
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[19:57:35] <zeeshan> they are so compact
[19:58:57] <zeeshan> andypugh: name of hal component?
[19:59:15] <Connor> zeeshan: Those look kind of $$$
[19:59:27] <zeeshan> how much do you think they cost
[20:00:04] <zeeshan> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Circuit_Protection_-z-_Fuses_-z-_Disconnects/Fuses_-a-_Fuse_Holders/Fuse_Holders,_Fuse_Blocks_-a-_Accessories/Midget_and_Class_CC_Fuse_Holders,_Fuse_Blocks,_-a-_Accessories/EB1P100M3
[20:00:07] <zeeshan> 6.25 for each bus bar
[20:00:12] <zeeshan> (they come with different number of pins
[20:00:12] <zeeshan> er
[20:00:22] <zeeshan> wrong link.
[20:00:24] <zeeshan> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Circuit_Protection_-z-_Fuses_-z-_Disconnects/Fuses_-a-_Fuse_Holders/Fuse_Holders,_Fuse_Blocks_-a-_Accessories/Midget_and_Class_CC_Fuse_Holders,_Fuse_Blocks,_-a-_Accessories/EB1P100M6 9.25
[20:00:38] <zeeshan> lugs are 10 bux each
[20:00:46] <zeeshan> so basically 60 ish bux for all that
[20:00:57] <zeeshan> i needed 4 lugs total
[20:01:58] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_10_31_14_01.jpg
[20:02:03] <Connor> Mine.
[20:02:12] <Connor> I've done more wiring since this picture..
[20:02:20] <ssi> Connor: looking good!
[20:02:34] <zeeshan> connor
[20:02:41] <zeeshan> where did you buy those 24vdc relays with holders again
[20:02:43] <zeeshan> i need to order.
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[20:03:02] <Connor> get'm anywhere except where I did.. I got them off of ebay.
[20:03:11] <zeeshan> why whats wrong with yours
[20:03:23] <Connor> first 4 I got were good.. next 2 were larger and the relays had pins instead of tabs.
[20:03:35] <Connor> and didn't want to stay in very well.
[20:03:38] <zeeshan> bah
[20:03:46] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_10_27_14_01.jpg
[20:04:24] <Connor> My breakout box on back of the mill.. this is were limits/homes, spindle encoders, solenoids, etc will wire into..
[20:05:09] <Connor> ssi: How's it going ?
[20:05:37] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Mount-2-SPDT-16A-Power-Relay-Interface-24V-DC-OMRON-Relay-Industrial-/191413482432?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c9121f3c0
[20:05:39] <zeeshan> wow these are nice
[20:05:40] <zeeshan> so compact
[20:06:23] <jdh> thsoe are huge
[20:06:29] <ssi> slow
[20:06:32] <zeeshan> its 2 relays
[20:06:58] <Connor> Looks like you could add flyback diodes..
[20:07:02] <Connor> I had to on mine.
[20:07:04] <jdh> yeah, you could fit 12 in taht much space
[20:07:25] <zeeshan> jdh ok link?
[20:07:30] <zeeshan> din rail mounted
[20:07:31] <zeeshan> thanks :P
[20:08:37] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Mount-4-SPDT-Power-Relay-Interface-Module-OMRON-10A-Relay-24V-Coil-/131329278126?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e93d5c0ae
[20:08:39] <zeeshan> another sexy one
[20:08:39] * jdh digs through drawer
[20:09:15] <zeeshan> these ones look like they have a flyback diode in them already
[20:09:19] <zeeshan> i see the 1n4007
[20:09:57] <zeeshan> its gonna take 10 years to get those relays though
[20:10:02] <zeeshan> damn chinese shipping!
[20:11:52] <jdh> z: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311161340956
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[20:13:06] <zeeshan> is that a solid state relay?
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[20:13:41] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/381056221985
[20:14:07] <jdh> some are, some aren't. it is a base with a small plug-in relay
[20:14:20] <zeeshan> those are tiny!
[20:14:57] <zeeshan> i wonder if the 6A rating is resistive load
[20:14:59] <zeeshan> or inductive
[20:15:32] <zeeshan> also looks like those have flyback diodes
[20:15:56] <andypugh> I bought one of these recently. Nice metal DIN clip, cover. Looks good. http://www.ebay.com/itm/290913891799
[20:16:10] <zeeshan> that is nice
[20:16:13] <zeeshan> but 3 times the size!
[20:16:52] <jdh> DC SSR though, looks nice.
[20:17:39] <andypugh> Yes, I specifically wanted a DC one, it is for an Arduino to drive a Pulse clock.
[20:18:48] <zeeshan> jdh those are sweet
[20:18:51] <zeeshan> i think they'll work for me!
[20:19:14] <jdh> careful with ebay buys. the part number is just the base.
[20:19:30] <zeeshan> oh
[20:19:33] <zeeshan> it doesnt have the relay.
[20:19:33] <zeeshan> :/
[20:19:56] <jdh> the picture shows the relay
[20:20:32] <jdh> but, there are different relay modules
[20:22:46] <jdh> there are buss slots on them too. uses a flat bar
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[20:26:56] <andypugh> Talking about Bus-bars. Somthing that exists but seem hard to find are the commoning strips for DIN-rail terminals. You know the mysterious empty hole in the middle of a DIN-rail terminal? It’s to screw these in to: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-Way-Jumper-Bar-for-2-5mm-Din-Rail-Terminal-/400732950770?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item5d4d8b90f2
[20:28:02] <jdh> they seem to be mfg specific
[20:28:11] <andypugh> Yeah, that too.
[20:29:12] <jdh> I have a few boxes of 20-pole weidmuller ones here
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[20:29:40] <jdh> they fit the tri-level terminal blocks also
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[20:31:09] <andypugh> I was merely pointing out their existence:-)
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[20:35:14] <Loetmichel> *hrrmph* by now the bottle of "Laphroaig Cask Strength Batch 006" should have arrived here. paid it at 11/12. And no i would have liked a glass of that ;)
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[20:39:27] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: I like Islay's as well
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[20:59:09] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: Did you see the furnace-making blog entry?
[20:59:35] <andypugh> I think that a stainless-steel toilet roll holder from Tesco would make a decent outer shell.
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[21:39:20] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: ?
[21:39:39] <andypugh> Which statement are you querying?
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[21:47:47] <SpeedEvil> uSpeedEvil: Did you see the furnace-making blog entry?
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[21:57:02] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/heat-treatment-furnace.html
[21:58:15] <SpeedEvil> nice how-to
[21:58:34] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't - I've been in a coma most of today - moved too much plywood
[21:58:40] <SpeedEvil> and cutting it in unsafe ways
[21:59:55] <SpeedEvil> trying to get an actual shop setup which is not multipurposed as any other room or dragging stuff into the garden to do
[22:00:34] <SpeedEvil> so basically refitting an old metal shed with insulation and walls and ...
[22:02:02] <Deejay> gn8
[22:02:18] <SpeedEvil> And yeah - I have an old not-very-uniform kiln of uncertain spec too, but was wanting an actually accurate one
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[22:11:12] <andypugh> For a really accurate one I would be looking at more than one thermocouple, including one buried in the element to keep that below max service temp.
[22:12:23] <andypugh> The MAX13855 chip connects nicely to the Arduino SPI to measure K-type thermocouples. That would let you control 2 zones and limit element temp too.
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[22:15:54] <SpeedEvil> indeed. it'd be interesting to measure actual delta-t
[22:18:15] <renesis> guys anyone know anything about flow meters?
[22:18:33] <andypugh> Ihave used them
[22:18:44] <andypugh> What sort of flow do you want to measure?
[22:18:47] <renesis> no i mean making them
[22:19:02] <SpeedEvil> what sort of flow meter
[22:19:09] <SpeedEvil> ultrasonic, corrolis, ...
[22:19:15] <andypugh> So you are not looking at laser doppler then?
[22:19:15] <renesis> like, 60-100psi through 2" pipe or so
[22:19:25] <SpeedEvil> air?
[22:19:33] <renesis> i wanted to try a pair of temp sensors and heater
[22:19:39] <renesis> no water
[22:19:51] <renesis> agriculture stuff i guess
[22:19:54] <andypugh> Try a car MAF sensor?
[22:19:58] <SpeedEvil> what sort of flow rate?
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[22:20:22] <renesis> andypugh: i want less mechanical
[22:20:30] <andypugh> (A MAF sensor _might_ work for water, and the world is full of them)
[22:20:39] <SpeedEvil> I suspect if it's the flow rate I'm thinking of, heater is going to be utterly useless
[22:20:45] <SpeedEvil> unless it's megawatts
[22:20:50] <renesis> speedevil: i dunno, you turn on a regulated tap on a house
[22:20:59] <renesis> thats maybe few gpm?
[22:21:01] <SpeedEvil> oh
[22:21:10] <SpeedEvil> right - I was thinking it was a spraygun
[22:21:26] <SpeedEvil> that's not much flow at all in a 2" pipe
[22:21:28] <andypugh> renesis: The MAF sensors I am familiar with use a heated element, no moving parts.
[22:21:46] <renesis> im hoping maybe a few watts through a precision resistance and a couple of thermocouples
[22:21:52] <SpeedEvil> water has ~4000 times the thermal capacity
[22:21:52] <renesis> andypugh: oh neat
[22:21:56] <zeeshan> maf is meant for air flow
[22:22:07] <renesis> yeah but the air is going much faster
[22:22:14] <renesis> so maybe it works out
[22:22:20] <zeeshan> it works through density change
[22:22:21] <zeeshan> or something
[22:22:22] <zeeshan> i forget
[22:22:24] <SpeedEvil> you need ~20kW to boil a few GPM
[22:22:26] <renesis> but its a start
[22:22:31] <andypugh> zeeshan: I know, but they might work and there are many around to experiment with,
[22:22:33] <SpeedEvil> do you want hot water?
[22:22:40] <zeeshan> why use something not meant for it?
[22:22:40] <renesis> no i dont want hot at all
[22:22:47] <zeeshan> theres plenty of flow measurement devices out there
[22:22:53] <zeeshan> cheap one is a manometer
[22:22:58] <zeeshan> more expensive is a rotameter
[22:23:01] <renesis> you heat a point and measure the temp
[22:23:09] <renesis> and then monitor the temp of another point
[22:23:16] <zeeshan> thats a hot wire maf sensor
[22:23:18] <SpeedEvil> renesis: yes - that relies on heating the fluid
[22:23:18] <renesis> and the delta is related to flow rate
[22:23:24] <renesis> no flow, theyre the same temp
[22:23:38] <SpeedEvil> oh - not quite that
[22:23:41] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:23:48] <renesis> speedevil: right so how much heat prob depends on how sensitive the tc measurement
[22:23:54] <zeeshan> you can even use a venturi tube
[22:23:55] <renesis> and how far the tc
[22:24:06] <renesis> and how much heat
[22:24:21] <SpeedEvil> renesis: this will be affected by scaling too
[22:24:29] <andypugh> If you are making one for fun, carry on. But: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEN-HZ21WI-G1-2-Male-Thread-Brass-Hall-Effect-Water-Flow-Sensor-1-30L-min-/121377870238
[22:24:47] <zeeshan> hall effect?
[22:24:54] <zeeshan> does it have like a turbine in there
[22:24:57] <zeeshan> and you measure velocity?
[22:24:57] <andypugh> I guess a magnetic paddle
[22:25:00] <zeeshan> nice
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[22:25:03] <zeeshan> thats so cheap
[22:25:20] <SpeedEvil> that's not 2" pipe
[22:25:47] <andypugh> True, that’s 1/2” Gas (which is a lot bigger than 1/2”)
[22:25:51] <SpeedEvil> Also, that's not a flow switch
[22:25:54] <SpeedEvil> err
[22:25:58] <SpeedEvil> that is a flow switch
[22:26:02] <SpeedEvil> not a measuring device
[22:26:07] <SpeedEvil> it triggers on any flow
[22:27:04] <andypugh> You are probably right
[22:27:15] <zeeshan> andypugh: i take it back
[22:27:21] <zeeshan> they do make karman vortex sensors for water
[22:27:25] <zeeshan> http://www.bibus.de/fileadmin/editors/countries/biulm/product_data/ckd/documents/CKD-WFK3000-Serie_EN.pdf
[22:28:02] <SpeedEvil> renesis: is there a reason why you're trying to measure 2" pipe - not at a smaller diameter at the end?
[22:28:29] <SpeedEvil> renesis: and are you trying to measure flow, or volume
[22:28:29] <zeeshan> PPS resin (internal: piezo-electric ceramic)
[22:28:32] <zeeshan> interesting sensor
[22:28:37] <renesis> want it to flow through like normal plumbing
[22:29:05] <SpeedEvil> renesis: if you're trying to measure flow - over time - and care about say 10 gallons over the day, ...
[22:29:10] <zeeshan> does it need to be digital?
[22:29:20] <zeeshan> cause a flow rotameter you can make at home :D
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[22:29:33] <zeeshan> its just a tapered tube with a float
[22:29:50] <andypugh> This one _might_ be a flow measurement device, it’s hard to tell: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-75-5L-Min-800W-1PT-Male-Female-Thread-Brass-Water-Flow-Rate-Sensor-Counter/191363303666
[22:30:30] <renesis> http://www.flowmeters.com/thermal-technology
[22:30:33] <renesis> i think i mean this
[22:30:48] <zeeshan> thats like a hot wire maf sensor
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[22:31:21] <renesis> heaters and tc probes are reliable
[22:31:35] <renesis> heater prob wont ever need to be services, tc are easy to replace
[22:31:37] <renesis> cheap
[22:32:00] <zeeshan> look at the inside a plumbing systenm
[22:32:01] <andypugh> To not answer the question asked, these USB flow meters are really rather nice for small gas flows: http://www.red-y.com/en/products/smart/index.html
[22:32:03] <zeeshan> thats been operation for years
[22:32:12] <zeeshan> the amount of corossion build up is intent.
[22:32:14] <zeeshan> *intense
[22:32:21] <zeeshan> so your problem will get owned =P
[22:33:11] <renesis> zeeshan: yeah im not sure its a concern if the probes protrude enough
[22:33:25] <zeeshan> youre changing the thermal resistance
[22:33:26] <zeeshan> over time
[22:34:06] <renesis> yeah but the level of buildup might not be as significant as on the walls
[22:34:27] <renesis> also, mechanical flow meters can be fucked up the the same shit
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[22:34:41] <renesis> servicing this is like, bottle brush
[22:35:11] <zeeshan> this is why in lab setups
[22:35:14] <zeeshan> you'll see a manometer
[22:35:19] <zeeshan> theres nothing to service.
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[22:36:02] <renesis> not sure i can derive flow from pressure
[22:36:09] <zeeshan> ofcourse you can
[22:36:14] <zeeshan> thats how MAP based sensors work on cars
[22:36:14] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: in a 2" pipe?
[22:36:16] <renesis> its not a fixed load, and its def not a lab environment
[22:36:21] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: at gallons per hour?
[22:36:31] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: the pressure difference is going to be fuck all
[22:36:32] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: the tube would stick out from the pipe
[22:36:34] <zeeshan> it's not inline
[22:37:12] <renesis> to get current from voltage you need to know the resistance
[22:37:15] <zeeshan> http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/venturi_flowmeter.cfm
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[22:37:22] <renesis> look man i know all about plumbing because im good at electronics
[22:37:40] <renesis> dont ask me how to wire up a building tho
[22:37:54] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: play with the calculator
[22:37:59] <zeeshan> you'll see its very easily possible :P
[22:38:28] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: yes - with a venturi - trivially
[22:38:52] <SpeedEvil> I thought the idea was to stay on 2' for some reason
[22:39:11] <renesis> just because its easy to poke shit into the side of a pipe
[22:39:22] <SpeedEvil> Also - at 2' you're going to run into an issue where it's large enough to setup convection cells, I suspect
[22:39:27] <zeeshan> it's not about easy
[22:39:28] <renesis> and id rather not restrict flow in any way
[22:39:30] <zeeshan> its about "reliable"
[22:39:31] <zeeshan> :P
[22:39:46] <renesis> easy to fab is usually reliable
[22:40:01] <andypugh> You could use a different automotive sensor (because they are cheap commodity parts). Venturi and a delta-pressure sensor from a diesel engine particulate filter.
[22:40:14] <renesis> a heater and two tc is prob going to be more reliable than two pressure sensors
[22:40:28] <renesis> tho thats not a bad alternative
[22:41:07] <renesis> and id rather stay away from off the shelf parts and end product would have lots of parallel channels
[22:41:49] <renesis> a thermocouple amp is a lot easier to multiplex than a pressure sensor
[22:42:03] <renesis> and thermocouple cable is cheap
[22:42:32] <andypugh> (Actually, looking at DPF pressure sensors, it looks like they are only actually cheap to the car makers, £40 on eBay for a part we pay $5 for)
[22:43:02] <renesis> tons of pressure sensors does not seem cheap, tons of valves to multiplex a sensor does not sound cheap, pressure tube lengths affecting measurements does not sound good
[22:43:07] <andypugh> renesis: For ambient temps you can use extension cable rather than thermocouple wire.
[22:43:21] <renesis> i always use extension, heh
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[22:43:46] <renesis> for multichan data log setups, we twisted and soldered, used CA glue to mount
[22:44:04] <andypugh> My thermocouple was at 850°C last night, I don’t think the extension wire would have coped.
[22:44:13] <zeeshan> egt?
[22:44:13] <renesis> for quick stuff, i usually just twist tight maybe 8 times and clip
[22:44:22] <renesis> i want to try welding the extension wire
[22:44:48] <renesis> the wire tc probes response way faster than any expensive stuff could
[22:44:52] <andypugh> There isn’t much point. All you actually need is an electrical contact with no voltage drop.
[22:45:13] <renesis> what is an electrical contact with no voltage drop at uV?
[22:45:13] <andypugh> The “magic” is in the wire, not the junction.
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[22:46:12] <renesis> and i just want to weld because twist and solder doesnt work well long term
[22:46:44] <andypugh> What I am saying is that as long as both legs are effectively shorted together, with no funny chemistry happening in the joint, then it will work.
[22:46:48] <renesis> the solder is mostly a mechanical bond, doesnt wet for shit on the tC wire
[22:46:56] <renesis> yes i know
[22:47:07] <zeeshan> cheapos
[22:47:09] <zeeshan> buy a probe
[22:47:13] <andypugh> We used to use a capacitor-discharge spot-welder.
[22:47:20] <renesis> probes dont work as well
[22:47:25] <renesis> theyre slow
[22:47:27] <zeeshan> andypugh: you were making your own themocouples?
[22:47:33] <andypugh> Yes.
[22:47:34] <zeeshan> K type are pretty quick!
[22:47:40] <zeeshan> thats what i use to measure exhaust temp
[22:47:43] <renesis> andypugh: yeah thats what i wanted to try
[22:47:55] <zeeshan> http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/304281180/10pieces-lot-K-Type-EGT-Thermocouple.jpg
[22:47:57] <zeeshan> that crap
[22:47:59] <renesis> cap bank and some copper studs
[22:48:09] <renesis> haha, yeah slow
[22:48:22] <andypugh> Just spot weld chromel and alumel wires very close together to the same specimen and you get a very fast response.
[22:48:23] <renesis> expensive and slow
[22:48:28] <zeeshan> well it handles
[22:48:30] <zeeshan> 1800F
[22:48:33] <zeeshan> so im happy with it
[22:48:48] <renesis> right if you dont need the temp resistance theyre a waste of money
[22:49:04] <andypugh> I was measuring the quench-rate of steel specimens into a molten salt bath.
[22:49:07] <renesis> you cant get faster than just wires
[22:49:11] <zeeshan> andypugh: nice!@
[22:49:29] <zeeshan> i forgot
[22:49:32] <zeeshan> you're mr materials :)
[22:49:36] <renesis> andypugh: have you tried just spot welding the wires?
[22:49:40] <andypugh> So speed was important, and each thermocouple did one test.
[22:49:51] <renesis> to themselves
[22:50:15] <andypugh> It was a while ago, and I just realsied that I am confusing two things.
[22:50:45] <andypugh> We spot-welded probe wires to samples to measure crack-growth.
[22:50:55] <renesis> so you had suicidal tc probes?
[22:51:44] <andypugh> Thermocouples were welded in an inert atmosphere using a similar sort of set-up then peined into a spark-eroded hole in the sampls.
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[22:53:05] <renesis> so you made welded wire probes and then hammered them into a hole
[22:53:09] <andypugh> Yes
[22:53:22] <renesis> neat
[22:53:39] <andypugh> Then heated to 850C and dropped out of the bottom of the tube furnace into molten sodium hydroxide
[22:54:00] <andypugh> Then cut-back the wires, made a new junction, and repeated.
[22:54:18] <renesis> so i was thinking of doing little potted plugs
[22:54:33] <renesis> like, one with a tc, and one with a tc and a heater
[22:55:06] <renesis> and its like, city water temp so nothing has to be special
[22:55:13] <andypugh> I think we used gas and air to weld, but interestingly Alibaba is full of oxy-hydrogen sets for the job: http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/oxy--hydrogen-thermocouple-welding-machine.html
[22:55:21] <renesis> can maybe just use temp sensor IC, too
[22:55:35] <renesis> i dunno how precise this shit needs to be really
[22:56:55] <renesis> temp sensor ic prob way slower
[22:58:17] <renesis> andypugh: ha neat pic of all the little welded TC ends in that link
[22:59:21] <andypugh> Ah, they really are selling just a little welding torch
[23:00:15] <andypugh> My sister uses exactly that setup for jewellry, the cutest welding torch in the world with hypodermic syringes for nozzles.
[23:00:49] <andypugh> I seem to recall ours were welded inside a glass tube, but it was 25 years ago.
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[23:10:11] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/gsfc/4790394066/
[23:10:11] <zeeshan> man
[23:10:15] <zeeshan> i miss hubble
[23:10:54] <zeeshan> i wonder how good james webb space telescope will be
[23:12:16] <andypugh> It should be better
[23:13:20] <ssi> I need to get my manual mill under power tonight
[23:13:20] <zeeshan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope#mediaviewer/File:James_Webb_Primary_Mirror.jpg
[23:13:21] <zeeshan> so sexy
[23:13:30] <ssi> and then build a fixture to start doing these enclosures
[23:14:00] <zeeshan> i wonder how long those mirrors took
[23:14:06] <zeeshan> to make :P
[23:14:25] <ssi> incorrectly
[23:14:26] <ssi> hahaha
[23:14:30] <zeeshan> how in the world do you clean a mirror like that
[23:14:34] <zeeshan> touching that would own it
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[23:15:58] <ssi> looks like they're going to play the most expensive game of settlers of catan ever
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[23:16:42] <andypugh> I love the “Overwhelmingly large Telescope”: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overwhelmingly_Large_Telescope as a name.
[23:17:12] <ssi> aw, they scrapped it for the Extremely Large Telescope :(
[23:17:47] <zeeshan> haha
[23:22:05] <andypugh> A friend of mine works at ESO, I will have to remember to taunt him when next we meet.
[23:22:41] <DaViruz> Extremely Small Observatory?
[23:22:42] <DaViruz> :)
[23:24:33] <andypugh> European Southern Observatory. There is a slightly odd novel about what it is like to work there by a vague acquaintance: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BU3LLZ4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_d_detailpage_o09_
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[23:33:42] <XXCoder> hey cnc fanbois
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[23:36:43] <andypugh> ¿que?
[23:38:02] <XXCoder> qaStaH loD?
[23:40:02] <andypugh> By the way, if you wish you were a Mad Scientist, you will probably enjoy this, http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104#.VG0p44fg1U0
[23:40:10] <zeeshan> i really fucking will never work on a cnc machine again
[23:40:13] <zeeshan> without a wiring diagram
[23:40:15] <zeeshan> this has been a nightmare
[23:40:22] <zeeshan> now im looking at the speed selector stuff
[23:40:29] <zeeshan> it makes NO sense
[23:40:52] <XXCoder> oh they finished the story? I gonna catch up
[23:41:01] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15210012634/
[23:41:10] <zeeshan> how is one supposed to know how this circuit board works!!!
[23:41:13] <zeeshan> without a diagram :{
[23:41:33] <XXCoder> wow gonna love ye olde circuit boards
[23:41:50] <andypugh> zeeshan: They don’t want _you_ to know, they want you to pay them for knowing.
[23:41:58] <XXCoder> looked up serial #?
[23:42:28] <zeeshan> yea i looked up "indelco ag 801 531-1"
[23:42:47] <zeeshan> andypugh: well shit, i need a wiring diagram to hook the pinouts
[23:42:51] <zeeshan> i dont care how the board works :P
[23:42:58] <zeeshan> just need to know what terminals those wires need
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[23:44:53] <andypugh> You can often find things out about a board from the RF testing code. (I have forgotten the acronym)
[23:45:31] <andypugh> There is a database that will tell you who certified the board, and that tells you the real manufacturer
[23:46:00] <zeeshan> i dont see any numbers on it
[23:46:03] <zeeshan> other than what isee in that pic
[23:48:59] <andypugh> That looks like an intereting board. Presumably the layout is delibrate. Is it extremely high voltage?
[23:49:35] <zeeshan> no
[23:49:42] <zeeshan> its a 24V board i'm assuming.
[23:50:04] <zeeshan> it has something to do with the motors
[23:50:13] <zeeshan> that shift the gears for the transmission
[23:50:16] <renesis> prob hall sensors?
[23:50:21] <zeeshan> youre right
[23:50:31] <zeeshan> the ugs-3020t is the only thing i can find details on
[23:50:37] <zeeshan> and it comes up as "magnetically activated switches"
[23:50:41] <renesis> nice bushings for a PCB, heh
[23:50:54] <andypugh> There has to be a reason for the layout?
[23:51:19] <zeeshan> "these devices are magnetically activated electronic switches utilizing hall effect for sensing magnetic field. each circuit consists of a silicon hall generator, amplifier, trigger and output stage integrated with its own voltage regulator onto a monolitihc silicon chip"
[23:51:34] <zeeshan> "circuit outputs can be directly interfaced with a bipolar or MOS logic circuits"
[23:51:36] <renesis> that sounds like amplified and schmitt trigger hall sensor
[23:51:42] <zeeshan> the pinouts i see are vcc, gnd and vout
[23:51:45] <renesis> yeah what the datasheet says
[23:52:06] <zeeshan> so let me get this straight
[23:52:18] <renesis> ive played with sot23 sensors like that
[23:52:20] <zeeshan> these sensors are picking up the magnetic fields from the motors that mount to this circuit?
[23:52:21] <zeeshan> ?!?
[23:52:22] <andypugh> Does that board bolt to the back of three motors?
[23:52:27] <zeeshan> yes
[23:52:30] <renesis> yeah
[23:52:39] <andypugh> I wonder why?
[23:52:43] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15536981611/
[23:52:48] <zeeshan> thats how its assembled
[23:52:55] <renesis> thats why i said hall sensors, theyre positioned like for pole detection on a motor
[23:52:55] <andypugh> There are not enough sensors for a brushless motor
[23:53:06] <zeeshan> maybe they pick up the teeth?
[23:53:11] <zeeshan> on the gears electors?
[23:53:20] <zeeshan> wait theres a weird rod on it.
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[23:53:36] <renesis> andypugh: it maybe has a ref magnet
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[23:54:00] <renesis> shrug, ive seen two and three sensor setups
[23:54:09] <renesis> and hall sensors with optical sensors
[23:54:15] <zeeshan> this nonsense is the last thing ineed to figur eout
[23:54:18] <zeeshan> andf i can start wiring stuff up
[23:54:22] <_methods> wow i swear to god i just heard on the news they want to build a moat around the white house
[23:54:31] <andypugh> Ah, yes, each actuator has two positions for gear selection and the magnets/sensors tell the system when to stop the motor.
[23:54:40] <renesis> meryan00: to keep the what out?
[23:54:46] <renesis> _methods: ^
[23:54:59] <_methods> i guess the fences aren't workig lol
[23:55:03] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15806560136/
[23:55:04] <_methods> so now they want to build a moat
[23:55:08] <zeeshan> this is what the motors look like on the other side
[23:55:18] <_methods> they need to do that shit minecraft style and fill it with lava
[23:55:40] <renesis> is that rod magnetized?
[23:55:41] <renesis> wtf
[23:55:46] <zeeshan> it must be
[23:55:50] <zeeshan> thats the only thing that would make sense
[23:56:30] <andypugh> it seems like it might be quite simple. Three two-position levers for 8 gears, the system chooses a gear, and moves each motor to the right position, sensed by the 6 sensors.
[23:56:35] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/14926219104/in/photostream/lightbox/
[23:56:49] <zeeshan> the rod goes through and attaches inside those splined teeth
[23:57:19] <andypugh> There is a magent on each internal-toothed gear
[23:57:51] <andypugh> ( I can see them)
[23:58:18] <zeeshan> in the last pic i posted?
[23:58:22] <andypugh> Yes
[23:58:35] <zeeshan> how do you zoom in in flickr
[23:58:38] * zeeshan doesnt know
[23:59:18] <andypugh> The phasing of the outer gear and magnet to the inner gear is likely to be critical, don’t disturn it without making reference marks and photos