#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-11-07

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[01:28:01] <Connor> pcw Which inputs on 7i76 can read analog voltage ?
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[01:28:11] <Connor> pcw_home: ?
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[01:28:45] <PCW> 0,1,2,3
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[01:29:19] <Connor> crap.
[01:29:29] <Connor> I already assigned 0,1,2,3 to something.
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[01:33:54] <Connor> Going to use a resistor ladder for XYZA Feed % Spindle % and the other as 1 10 100 1000
[01:34:22] <Connor> Hopefully that'll work.
[01:34:37] <PCW> run out of inputs already?
[01:34:51] <Connor> No. Just wires and connectors. :)
[01:35:06] <Connor> DB9 to run from console pendant to control box.
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[01:36:26] <Connor> +12v, estop, push-to-start, +5v, MPG A MPG B, Power Bar Relase, that's 7 wires.. only 2 left and shield.
[01:36:45] <Connor> Hmm.. I may not have enough still..
[01:37:21] <Connor> I guess I could switch out the db9 for a HD-db15
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[01:40:34] <Connor> Question. On pendants.. Which rotary switch normal controls the OFF ? The Axis select, or the units select ?
[01:41:03] <Connor> I have 6 position rotary.. so, for the Axis, It'll Be X, Y, Z, A, Feed %, Spindle % which is ALL 6.
[01:41:31] <PCW> HD-DBs are a pain to terminate :-(
[01:41:32] <Connor> But for Units, I could have Off, 1x, 10x, 100x, 1000x, 10000x
[01:41:55] <PCW> well obviously you should buy a 7I73
[01:42:06] <Connor> ROFL. I KNEW you where going to say that.
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[01:43:52] <PCW> bbl dinner time!
[01:43:56] <Connor> pcw I can get db15's in chrimp
[01:44:00] <Connor> which is what I always use.
[01:44:39] <_DannyK_> Does the 7i77 do rs-485 modbus?
[01:45:14] <Connor> I don't think so. I think you use a standard Rs-232 to rs-485 convert on a serial port of the PC
[01:46:40] <_DannyK_> I guess, I was just exercising food for thought idea for a master plan
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[01:47:14] <_DannyK_> ty
[01:50:49] <_DannyK_> Anyone here use rs485 on a Huanyang VFD?
[01:56:56] <_DannyK_> if anyone is interested in the linux cnc and 485 junk #53
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[02:20:25] <zeeshan|2> hi _DannyK_
[02:20:36] <zeeshan|2> 7i77 doesnt do modbus
[02:20:41] <zeeshan|2> but you can get yourself a rs232 to rs485 converter
[02:20:48] <zeeshan|2> for $5 on ebay
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[02:21:14] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RS232-to-RS485-1-2KM-Data-Interface-Adapter-Converter-Good-quality-/201200067413?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed8756355
[02:21:15] <_DannyK_> Thank you, zee
[02:21:19] <zeeshan|2> maybe one similar to that from usa
[02:21:24] <zeeshan|2> takes too long from china
[02:21:47] <zeeshan|2> that is the exact one im using for modbus communication
[02:21:57] <_DannyK_> I have time... I don't have the VFD yet..
[02:22:03] <zeeshan|2> the huanyang vfd also has a modbus driver (how developed it is i don't know)
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[02:22:06] <zeeshan|2> but you can easily modify it
[02:23:12] <zeeshan|2> crap i take that back
[02:23:16] <zeeshan|2> i was confusing it with the GS2.
[02:23:48] <_DannyK_> Take which part back?
[02:23:55] <zeeshan|2> there being a driver for that vfd
[02:24:08] <zeeshan|2> if indeed there is no driver
[02:24:19] <zeeshan|2> i'd use kirk wallaces mvx9000 driver and modify it to pass the commands you need
[02:24:25] <zeeshan|2> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
[02:24:59] <_DannyK_> are you sure there is no driver?
[02:25:00] <_DannyK_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/phase-converters/91847-huanyang-vfd-rs485-modbus.html
[02:26:42] <XXCoder> heys
[02:26:52] <zeeshan|2> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/phase-converters/91847-huanyang-vfd-rs485-modbus-3.html#post704008
[02:26:55] <zeeshan|2> okay there is some code
[02:26:58] <zeeshan|2> but it looks old
[02:28:19] <_DannyK_> Last driver for this would be place at 4-9-2014, not too old..
[02:28:33] <_DannyK_> driver/code
[02:28:53] <zeeshan|2> i don't know about your specific drive
[02:28:58] <zeeshan|2> but modbus is a standard
[02:29:02] <zeeshan|2> so it'll work the same for all vfds
[02:29:17] <zeeshan|2> with the exception that maybe one vfd wants a 01100111 command for run
[02:29:22] <zeeshan|2> and another might want
[02:29:24] <zeeshan|2> 01111111
[02:29:25] <zeeshan|2> :P
[02:29:39] <zeeshan|2> and some vfds just have a lot more commands you can customize
[02:30:04] <zeeshan|2> like you can get it to report amp and voltage to you
[02:30:06] <_DannyK_> nice, from what I read the Huanyang modbus is crap and needs custom drivers
[02:30:22] <zeeshan|2> from which wne you multiply them you get watts
[02:30:25] <zeeshan|2> and you can convert it to hp
[02:30:51] <zeeshan|2> and you know your maximum hp based on the FLA rating on the motor name plate, so you can get a ratio of current power consumption / total power avaiable and display a fancy "load meter"
[02:31:07] <zeeshan|2> _DannyK_: i guess theyre not following standard then?
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[02:31:25] <_DannyK_> correct
[02:31:49] <_DannyK_> A question I asked earlier, since I have limited experience with VFD’s in general, would a VFD, single phase to 3 phase, work for a Hurco KMB-1, maybe you could tell me if I'm barking up the right tree?
[02:32:47] <zeeshan|2> you can generally use single phase on a 3 phase vfd
[02:32:58] <zeeshan|2> but you have to get a vfd thats double the size
[02:33:02] <zeeshan|2> so if your motor is 1hp, you need a 2hp motor
[02:33:04] <zeeshan|2> er
[02:33:07] <zeeshan|2> 2hp drive.
[02:33:35] <_DannyK_> I heard about a derating, but I thought it was only 30% not 50%
[02:33:43] <zeeshan|2> but some drives come prerated to be driven using single phase, and you dont need to derate
[02:33:47] <zeeshan|2> no its about 50%
[02:33:59] <_DannyK_> sweet..
[02:34:07] <zeeshan|2> single phase current = sqrt(3)*3phasecurrent
[02:34:46] <_DannyK_> Well, I see how it is, you are you math against me..
[02:34:55] <_DannyK_> using*
[02:34:57] <zeeshan|2> the math says 75%
[02:35:06] <zeeshan|2> but the thing is when you account for the ripple
[02:35:17] <zeeshan|2> most people say rate it 2x.
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[02:35:55] <zeeshan|2> if you look at for example an eaton 1hp --- 3 ph model input vs 1 ph model input
[02:36:24] <zeeshan|2> you'll see the current capacities are off by a factor of 2
[02:36:38] <_DannyK_> Right..
[02:36:53] <zeeshan|2> what is a hurco kmb-1?
[02:36:54] <_DannyK_> It makes sense, just never really thought about it..
[02:37:00] <_DannyK_> Alright, zeehan|2, thank you for the information...
[02:37:06] <_DannyK_> I appreciate the time..
[02:37:15] <PetefromTn_andro> Cnc knee mill
[02:37:44] <zeeshan|2> np
[02:37:46] <zeeshan|2> wow thats a huge machine
[02:37:54] <_DannyK_> uh huh...
[02:38:04] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HURCO-KMB-1-CNC-KNEE-MILL-/291002883487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c11f9d9f
[02:38:07] <_DannyK_> Pain in the ass to move
[02:38:17] <zeeshan|2> nolt much z travel though :/
[02:38:43] * ssi has moved something like 44,000 lb worth of machines in the last three weeks
[02:38:47] <_DannyK_> I was thinking about powering my knee as well
[02:38:47] <ssi> not much phases me at this point :P
[02:38:57] <zeeshan|2> ssi: rofl
[02:39:03] <zeeshan|2> if i was near by i'd help you
[02:39:06] <zeeshan|2> machine moving is fun
[02:39:11] <zeeshan|2> its exhausting but fun
[02:39:18] <ssi> I'm nearly done
[02:39:29] <ssi> need to clean out the left side of the hangar and get the bridgeport placed
[02:39:33] <ssi> and then rerig the table on it
[02:39:41] <zeeshan|2> you're gonan shift the airports foundation
[02:39:42] <ssi> then everything needs to come off skids and be levelled, and electrical run
[02:39:43] <zeeshan|2> with all that weight
[02:39:45] <zeeshan|2> ;D
[02:39:46] <ssi> GOOD
[02:39:54] <zeeshan|2> btw
[02:39:56] <ssi> means I'm doing it right
[02:40:04] <zeeshan|2> how much does a plane like yours weigh?
[02:40:10] <ssi> 1450lb empty
[02:40:14] <ssi> for the cherokee
[02:40:17] <zeeshan|2> wow
[02:40:20] <ssi> the RV will be 1100lb when it's done
[02:40:22] <zeeshan|2> and with fluid?
[02:40:24] <ssi> it's probably about 550lb right now
[02:40:31] <zeeshan|2> fluid = gas
[02:40:37] <ssi> cherokee with full fuel weighs 1750, and gross takeoff weight is 2150
[02:40:51] <zeeshan|2> so its kinda like flying a mazda miata
[02:40:53] <zeeshan|2> :D
[02:41:00] <ssi> something like that :)
[02:41:06] <ssi> except it probably has more power
[02:41:10] <ssi> and definitely has more torques
[02:41:16] <zeeshan|2> 300hp ish?
[02:41:23] <ssi> nah the cherokee is just 150hp
[02:41:32] <zeeshan|2> that amazes me man
[02:41:41] <ssi> but it's 150hp at 2600rpm
[02:41:50] <ssi> so it's >300lbft
[02:41:57] <zeeshan|2> so its like a v8 engine
[02:41:59] <zeeshan|2> :D
[02:42:10] <ssi> yeah, except it's a flat four with HUGE cylinders
[02:42:16] <ssi> 320 cubic inch 4cyl
[02:42:27] <zeeshan|2> thats huge for a 4 banger haha
[02:42:34] <ssi> the engine for the RV is a 360ci 4 cyl that makes 200hp at 2700rpm
[02:42:41] <zeeshan|2> my v8 is 366 ci
[02:42:50] <_DannyK_> you guys have a good night
[02:42:51] <zeeshan|2> so i can just imagine the size of the pistons on the flat 4
[02:42:55] <ssi> 5.25"
[02:43:00] <zeeshan|2> hahahah
[02:43:17] <ssi> also the engine weighs 281lb
[02:43:28] <_DannyK_> Thanks agian, zeehan|2
[02:43:32] <zeeshan|2> _DannyK_: np gnite
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[02:44:09] <zeeshan|2> man ive been trying to search for a 24x24x8 enclosure
[02:44:10] <zeeshan|2> all day long
[02:44:31] <zeeshan|2> the cloest thing i've found is a 24x24x8 screw down cover
[02:44:34] <zeeshan|2> i really want a door
[02:44:40] <zeeshan|2> i have a screw down cover for hte lathe, and it sucks
[02:44:53] <zeeshan|2> but the box is brand new $65
[02:46:00] <XXCoder> make your own?
[02:46:04] <zeeshan|2> no
[02:46:21] <zeeshan|2> it takes eaton like 2 hours to make one using specialized equipment
[02:46:28] <zeeshan|2> its gonna take me a couple days!
[02:46:43] <zeeshan|2> nema 4 that is
[02:46:48] <XXCoder> well ok. might be cheaper than trying to find one?
[02:46:57] <XXCoder> if you take week looking its faster too
[02:47:04] <zeeshan|2> thats true
[02:47:12] <zeeshan|2> i ordered a new battery for my old iphone 4
[02:47:26] <zeeshan|2> theres a contact in there of a guy who i know has a surplus of enclosures
[02:47:35] <zeeshan|2> he owes me money
[02:47:40] <XXCoder> it wont boot without battery?
[02:47:41] <zeeshan|2> lets see if i can get a box from him
[02:47:48] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: yea it wont
[02:47:58] <XXCoder> too bad
[02:48:03] <zeeshan|2> im really hoping replacing the battery will let me boot it up
[02:48:08] <zeeshan|2> just enough to recover some of my old contacts
[02:48:38] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-storage-bench/hamilton/1960s-electrical-cabinets-tool-cabinets/1027647460?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[02:48:40] <zeeshan|2> my other option is
[02:48:43] <zeeshan|2> one of these..
[02:48:54] <zeeshan|2> this might be better cause theyre so roomy
[02:50:07] <XXCoder> good luck
[02:53:07] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-image.html?adId=517429592&image=0&enableSearchNavigationFlag=false
[02:53:08] <zeeshan|2> wow!
[02:53:39] <PetefromTn_andro> Connor I read that you are planning to setup rotary switches for axis and step value selection.
[02:53:53] <Connor> PetefromTn_andro: Yup.
[02:54:20] <PetefromTn_andro> How are you wiring that and what kind of switches did you select
[02:54:36] <Connor> Wondering which switch to use for OFF to make sure the the MPG doesn't move something by accident.
[02:55:25] <Connor> Just standard rotary switches from Radio Shack. I can wire them up so that they use 1 input per selection... Or use something called a resistor ladder and use Input 0,1,2,3 for analog voltage.
[02:56:07] <PetefromTn_andro> So each position is a separate input
[02:56:19] <Connor> that's one method.. but lots of wires..
[02:56:25] <Connor> using the resistor method.. just 2 inputs.
[02:56:40] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah and it would eat up your inputs quickly
[02:56:58] <Connor> using resistor method is rather nice and cheaper on inputs.
[02:57:22] <zeeshan|2> maybe you can use a mux? :P
[02:57:26] <zeeshan|2> if youre running out of inputs
[02:57:47] <Connor> So, my main control will have a E-Stop, Push-To-Start, MPG, and 2 Rotary switches.
[02:58:08] <Connor> zeeshan|2: Not running out of inputs.. I just don't want to run that many wires to the control..
[02:58:29] <Connor> I'm only using like 9 inputs thus far out of the 32
[02:58:29] <zeeshan|2> its been a while since ive used a multiplexer
[02:58:34] <PetefromTn_andro> I wonder if you could use negative and positive feedback from the switch to determine one or the other axis
[02:58:34] <zeeshan|2> but isn't that the point of a mux?
[02:59:32] <zeeshan|2> basically youll just have 1 wire
[02:59:36] <zeeshan|2> for all your inputs
[02:59:43] <zeeshan|2> (im assuming theyre 5v )
[02:59:53] <PetefromTn_andro> Do you have a link to the kind of switch you are using
[03:00:05] <Connor> They're not. the E-Stop and push-to-start are 12v
[03:00:28] <Connor> PetefromTn_andro: http://www.radioshack.com/radioshack-2-pole-6-position-rotary-switch/2750034.html
[03:01:20] <PetefromTn_andro> Hm nice and cheap I love it. This is something I would really like to do for both machines
[03:01:34] <Connor> Yea, it's really easy concept.
[03:02:13] <PetefromTn_andro> Moving between increments and axes is kind of a pain in the Keister with the keyboard
[03:02:54] <PetefromTn_andro> Flicking a rotary switches would be much easier
[03:03:24] <PetefromTn_andro> That's actually the way the original control worked on the Cincinnati
[03:04:29] <PetefromTn_andro> The lathe had a cool angled panel that had the spindle load meter on it I can put some of the stuff on .
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[03:18:35] <zeeshan|2> how does the z-axis motor brake operation work
[03:18:46] <zeeshan|2> is there a hal pin you associate it with?
[03:19:04] <Connor_iPad> Normally handled by the driver.
[03:19:10] <zeeshan|2> hmmm
[03:19:24] <zeeshan|2> i didnt see anything related to do that on the amc manual..
[03:19:25] <zeeshan|2> ssi?
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[03:25:02] <zeeshan|2> "The I- x t current limitation, which is standard to t h i s unit , oDsures optimum motor protection. It is, however, advisable to use a thermal contact provided in the motor."
[03:25:09] <zeeshan|2> i^2 xt
[03:25:31] <zeeshan|2> old driver manual says basically it has current limitation
[03:25:37] <zeeshan|2> yet still recommends using a thermal contact? :/
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[03:42:17] <Tom_itx> got my pulleys in today: http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/timing_pulley_index.php
[03:43:36] <Connor_iPad> How did you get the flanges back on?
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[03:43:50] <Tom_itx> what flanges?
[03:43:54] <zeeshan|2> nice Tom_itx
[03:44:02] <Connor_iPad> On the pulleys.
[03:44:05] <zeeshan|2> what size did you end up going with
[03:44:08] <Tom_itx> i didn't take them off
[03:44:22] <Tom_itx> 44 on the large one 36? on the small
[03:44:30] <zeeshan|2> i mean pitch
[03:44:31] <zeeshan|2> and series
[03:44:33] <Tom_itx> gives me about 5200 rpm
[03:44:34] <zeeshan|2> gt series?
[03:44:38] <Tom_itx> 3mm GT2
[03:44:42] <Tom_itx> 9mm wide
[03:44:55] <Connor_iPad> Oh. Took mine off to get better concentric with pulley teeth.
[03:45:00] <zeeshan|2> works okay?
[03:45:05] <Tom_itx> works good
[03:45:31] <Tom_itx> i think the motor bearings are getting tired though
[03:46:39] <Tom_itx> Connor, i put a dowel pin in the hole and aligned it in the lathe with a last word indicator
[03:46:52] <Tom_itx> gripping from the flange side
[03:47:08] <Connor_iPad> 4 jaw?
[03:47:09] <Tom_itx> so the hole was dead nuts centered
[03:47:10] <Tom_itx> yes
[03:47:13] <zeeshan|2> you sir
[03:47:14] <zeeshan|2> need this!
[03:47:30] <zeeshan|2> wait what
[03:47:38] <zeeshan|2> i read that wrong :P
[03:48:17] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: when you were machining it
[03:48:22] <zeeshan|2> did you notice the chips are weird?
[03:48:30] <zeeshan|2> its a weird hard material.
[03:48:35] <Tom_itx> no not really
[03:48:40] <zeeshan|2> yours are steel right?
[03:48:44] <Tom_itx> aluminum
[03:48:46] <zeeshan|2> oh
[03:48:49] <Connor_iPad> It's cast
[03:49:03] <Connor_iPad> Cast alumn machined a little differently.
[03:49:03] <zeeshan|2> mine are powdered steel
[03:49:09] <Tom_itx> probably extruded
[03:49:10] <zeeshan|2> it was weird to machine
[03:49:29] <zeeshan|2> ive done tons of cast al machining before
[03:49:34] <zeeshan|2> its pretty much same as regular al
[03:49:39] <zeeshan|2> if anything regular al is harder
[03:49:51] <zeeshan|2> intercooler end tanks, engine blocks, intake manifolds
[03:49:54] <zeeshan|2> mostly cast al
[03:50:23] <zeeshan|2> this powedered steel really got the drill bits hot
[03:50:29] <zeeshan|2> cause i was using mild steel speeds
[03:51:31] <Tom_itx> sorta like machining oilite?
[03:51:41] <zeeshan|2> havent machined oilite
[03:51:58] <Tom_itx> well ya really don't want to
[03:51:58] <zeeshan|2> id compare it to machining through a weld in stainless
[03:52:40] <Tom_itx> well hopefully i won't wear out so damn many belts now
[03:53:33] <Tom_itx> the rpm seems to be pretty close to what it was
[04:01:45] <Connor> pcw pcw_home: In the manuals for both the 7i76 and 7i77, TB2 Pins 6 and 7 are marked NC. But... I threw my ohm meter on them.. and they ohm out to ground. (which is what I need.. need more connections to ground).
[04:02:02] <Connor> can you confirm that they are indeed ground.. and not NC as the manual states ?
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[05:06:05] <zeeshan|2> connor
[05:06:09] <zeeshan|2> since youre working on this kind of..
[05:06:20] <zeeshan|2> i'm confused when looking at the 7i77 manual when it comes to analog signal wiring
[05:06:25] <zeeshan|2> i dont see how you can run it in differential mode
[05:07:02] <zeeshan|2> i see ena0- ena0+ which you use for enabling
[05:07:04] <zeeshan|2> and then a gnd
[05:07:07] <zeeshan|2> and then aout0
[05:07:17] <zeeshan|2> wouldnt there be 2 wires for aout if it was differential
[05:07:27] <zeeshan|2> it seems like its a single ended signal
[05:08:06] <zeeshan|2> unless aout0 -> +REF
[05:08:13] <zeeshan|2> and gnd -> -REF
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[05:14:53] <Connor> ena0- is for differential
[05:15:09] <Connor> only to be used if your driver supports differential input.
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[05:15:55] <zeeshan|2> hm
[05:16:04] <Connor> your driver doesn't have a direction pin.. so you'll use ref- and ref+ for the analog +-10v
[05:16:05] <zeeshan|2> where do you see that in the manual
[05:19:03] <Connor> give me a minute.
[05:20:34] <Connor> link to that pdf manual for your driver.
[05:21:23] <zeeshan|2> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/manual/AMC_AnalogDrives_InstallManual.pdf
[05:21:33] <zeeshan|2> page 36
[05:23:23] <Connor> Okay. AOUT0 to +REF, GND to -REF
[05:23:38] <zeeshan|2> that puts it in single ended mode no?
[05:23:48] <Connor> It's analog
[05:24:06] <zeeshan|2> i'm confused :{
[05:24:12] <zeeshan|2> if you put -ref to ground
[05:24:16] <Connor> 7i77 not setup for differential mode with the analog
[05:24:20] <zeeshan|2> is that still concisdered ifferential?
[05:24:22] <zeeshan|2> okay
[05:24:26] <zeeshan|2> so you cant do ifferential then
[05:24:34] <Connor> you can on the Enable though
[05:24:39] <zeeshan|2> yes
[05:25:16] <Connor> Errr... Wait.
[05:25:20] <Connor> No.
[05:25:57] <Connor> Check with PCW in the morning to find out if ENA- is GROUND or differential.
[05:26:31] <Connor> and looking.. your driver does the stupid thing where +5v to enable.
[05:26:34] <Connor> like mine..
[05:26:55] <Connor> err.. +5 to inhibit.
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[05:28:40] <Connor> Okay. Got it..
[05:29:29] <Connor> No. I don't.. ask PWM.
[05:29:44] <Connor> something is a bit odd with the wording and the way yours is setup.
[05:30:43] <zeeshan|2> no
[05:30:48] <zeeshan|2> you gotta read the fine note on the bottom
[05:30:51] <zeeshan|2> mine is the -inv version
[05:31:04] <zeeshan|2> so you ground the enable pin to energize the drive
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[05:32:37] <zeeshan|2> ena- is differential
[05:32:47] <zeeshan|2> im looking at logs from pcw earlier yesterday
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[05:37:55] <renesis> zeeshan|2: just because its diff input doesnt mean you have to drive it differentially
[05:38:04] <zeeshan|2> renesis: i know
[05:38:18] <zeeshan|2> differential is supperior to single ended though
[05:38:24] <zeeshan|2> wish it could be driven differentially
[05:38:29] <renesis> right but that doesnt mean single ended doesnt work
[05:38:30] <zeeshan|2> =/
[05:38:37] <zeeshan|2> renesis: you dont think i know that??
[05:38:45] <zeeshan|2> how do you think the cnc lathe is working?
[05:38:49] <zeeshan|2> :P
[05:38:54] <renesis> all of broadcast uses single ended for audio with bnc connectors =(
[05:39:09] <zeeshan|2> modbus is run over differential serial
[05:39:12] <zeeshan|2> and ive had 0 issues with noise
[05:39:20] <zeeshan|2> that cable runs right next to the vfd motor cables
[05:39:21] <zeeshan|2> haha
[05:39:36] <os1r1s> zeeshan|2: Do you know of a cheap modbus interface?
[05:39:41] <renesis> yeah balanced stuff is neat
[05:40:02] <zeeshan|2> os1r1s: you mean a serial to rs485 converter?
[05:40:30] <os1r1s> zeeshan|2: I was looking for a modbus controller that I could hit over rs232
[05:40:36] <os1r1s> To control accessories
[05:41:55] <zeeshan|2> if youre looking for a plc that can communicate overmodbus
[05:41:57] <zeeshan|2> thats relatively cheap
[05:42:03] <zeeshan|2> id look at the micrologix 1000 series
[05:42:23] <zeeshan|2> theyre stupid cheap on ebay
[05:42:28] <Connor_iPad> Modbus is a protocol.
[05:42:40] <Connor_iPad> That runs over rs485.
[05:42:41] <zeeshan|2> Connor_iPad: that's why im confused by his question
[05:42:41] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[05:42:50] <os1r1s> zeeshan|2: Thinks like the modio
[05:42:54] <os1r1s> Things
[05:43:37] <zeeshan|2> i havent experimented with modio plc stuff =/
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[06:20:15] <zeeshan|2> lol Connor
[06:20:20] <zeeshan|2> i can see why people blow up the 7i77
[06:20:29] <zeeshan|2> the pin pads arent labelled
[06:20:29] <Connor> ?
[06:20:37] <zeeshan|2> so its easy to accidently put the wrong wir ein the wrong spot
[06:20:41] <zeeshan|2> especially in the case of the enables
[06:20:50] <zeeshan|2> if you reverse em, you blow up something according to the manual
[06:21:12] <Connor> yea, which is why I said talk with pcw about it. to make sure you wire it correctly.
[06:21:40] <zeeshan|2> what im doing is im going to draw out the board (maybe pcw can send me a .dwg)
[06:21:44] <Connor> since your drivers require +5v to DISABLE
[06:21:46] <zeeshan|2> and label all the pins, and run the wires
[06:21:51] <zeeshan|2> no man
[06:22:01] <zeeshan|2> my drivers require grounding to enable
[06:22:10] <zeeshan|2> i have the INV version
[06:22:13] <zeeshan|2> inverted
[06:22:37] <Connor> okay. then that makes things tons eaier.
[06:22:58] <zeeshan|2> how are you handling it on your drivers?
[06:23:05] <zeeshan|2> (im thinking about throwing the 7i76 on the lathe in the future)
[06:23:07] <Connor> I'm still debating.
[06:23:08] <zeeshan|2> (thats why i want to know)
[06:23:20] <Connor> I'll be using a relay which ever way I go.
[06:23:38] <Connor> I'm debating if I want to disable the drivers on Machine On/Off
[06:23:38] <zeeshan|2> not gonna rely on the 7i77 watch dog?
[06:23:59] <zeeshan|2> 7i76 i mean
[06:24:23] <Connor> Yes. I am.. Output from 7i76 to feed a relay setup in a latching setup.
[06:24:41] <zeeshan|2> hm
[06:24:49] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of running the enable signals directly to 7i77 without a relay
[06:25:00] <zeeshan|2> cause if computer freezes
[06:25:02] <Connor> if the e-stop is broken, or the output from 7i76 goes low (because of watchdog) it trips the relay which either will kill power to the stepper PSU, or enable the driver inhibt
[06:25:27] <zeeshan|2> cant you feed a signal from e-stop to 7i76
[06:25:40] <zeeshan|2> so it disables everything?
[06:26:04] <Connor> that's not failsafe.
[06:26:35] <zeeshan|2> what else can disable the relay
[06:26:38] <zeeshan|2> other than e-stop button
[06:26:47] <Connor> computer freeze, linuxcnc freeze, linuxcnc dies.. the Output to the relay drops. e-stop engaged output to relay drops.
[06:27:33] <Connor> I'm using a output fom the 7i76 toggled to HIGH in the hal file. So when linuxcnc starts, it enables everything.
[06:27:49] <zeeshan|2> erm not to sound like an noob
[06:27:53] <zeeshan|2> wont you need a relay per axis then?
[06:28:12] <Connor> e-stop in series with it, and the relay that's setup in a latching fashion so that tripped, I have to push my push-to-start button.
[06:28:27] <Connor> No. You can toggle the drive enables with a single relay.
[06:28:49] <Connor> or, the stepper PSU.. which ever way I decide to go.
[06:29:13] <zeeshan|2> i really dont wanna do it on the psu side
[06:29:21] <zeeshan|2> cause that'd mean i'd need 5 contactors
[06:29:33] <zeeshan|2> cause the power supply is built into the drives
[06:29:46] <zeeshan|2> but then again my drives are normally off
[06:29:48] <zeeshan|2> unless enabled
[06:30:00] <Connor> Why? 1 contactor that feeds all the drives.
[06:30:04] <zeeshan|2> thats why i was thinking a signal directly form 7i77
[06:30:10] <zeeshan|2> is enough
[06:30:23] <zeeshan|2> cause if computer freezes, wathcdog will fail
[06:30:33] <Connor> Power from source into contactor, from contactor into DIN Bus block that feeds the drives in a star pattern.
[06:30:36] <zeeshan|2> if i press e-stop
[06:30:41] <zeeshan|2> and for some reason computer freezes, it wont matter
[06:30:50] <zeeshan|2> cause the watchdog will denergize enables
[06:31:01] <zeeshan|2> like i think you're jnoticing something
[06:31:03] <zeeshan|2> that i'm not
[06:31:03] <Connor> Output from a pin through estop into contactor coil.
[06:31:29] <Connor> and branch of that coil to a input into the 7i76 to indicate to LinuxCNC
[06:31:50] <zeeshan|2> i have each servo
[06:31:53] <zeeshan|2> on a seperate breaker
[06:32:03] <Connor> okay. That's fine.
[06:32:17] <Connor> you still have to feed each breaker from a common source.
[06:32:27] <Connor> or from a DIN buss bar.
[06:32:29] <zeeshan|2> that'd kill power to the entire machine
[06:32:29] <zeeshan|2> lol
[06:32:41] <zeeshan|2> including the computer then
[06:33:06] <zeeshan|2> can you tell me what i'm overlooking?
[06:33:07] <Connor> not if you have a separate non-contactor buss bar.
[06:33:18] <Connor> you have a wiring diagram ?
[06:33:28] <zeeshan|2> it's not complete yet for the enable
[06:33:33] <Connor> that's fine
[06:35:51] <zeeshan|2> erm
[06:35:56] <zeeshan|2> the pdf output looks like ass!
[06:36:16] <Connor> Do it as a jpg then.
[06:37:25] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/ZLzwTjq.png
[06:38:02] <Connor> okay. So here is what you do.
[06:38:26] <Connor> Come off the main breaker.
[06:38:34] <Connor> You feed 2 sets of DIN blocks.
[06:38:50] <Connor> on set is for everything that's going to be on regardless of E-Stop condition.
[06:39:04] <Connor> the other set will be switched on/off by the contactor.
[06:39:28] <Connor> from those DIN blocks, you'll feed your individual breakers, then to your drivers. etc.
[06:40:22] <zeeshan|2> okay i see what you mean
[06:40:41] <zeeshan|2> i still don't understand why i need it though (i'm not trying to argue with you or be mean!)
[06:40:52] <zeeshan|2> just take the 1 scenario for example
[06:40:59] <zeeshan|2> i press e-stop and computer freezes at the same time
[06:41:13] <zeeshan|2> the watchdog will turn off
[06:41:18] <zeeshan|2> killing power to the servo drives?
[06:41:37] <Connor> You take a Output from the 7i77, run it through the E-Stop switch, maybe through the hard limits if you want (you'll have to add a by-pass button so you can jog off axis). then into the coil of the contactor. Star Off the contact and feed a input into 7i77 so it can see the e-stop event.
[06:41:37] <zeeshan|2> in what scenario would the 7i77 keep the servo drives energized?
[06:41:43] <zeeshan|2> that i'm overlooking
[06:42:42] <Connor> If the estop is engaged, or the watchdog kills the 7i77 field power, the coil looses voltage, and the contator turns off.. killing power too all servo's and spindle etc.
[06:42:53] <zeeshan|2> i kill power to the spindle
[06:42:55] <zeeshan|2> using modbus
[06:42:59] <zeeshan|2> (the watchdog)
[06:43:04] <zeeshan|2> either it gets a command to stop
[06:43:12] <zeeshan|2> or if the watchdog detects signal loss it kills power
[06:43:25] <Connor> NEVER SEND A COMMAND to stop.
[06:43:27] <Connor> not fail safe.
[06:43:32] <zeeshan|2> why?
[06:43:44] <zeeshan|2> describe a scenario where it'll not stop
[06:43:55] <Connor> The only thing failsafe in that is the modbus looses signal.
[06:44:06] <zeeshan|2> which is really good enough
[06:44:12] <Connor> which would only happen if the computer locks up or looses power.
[06:44:38] <zeeshan|2> okay, why else would the command stop not reach there?
[06:44:45] <Connor> but, what happens if you Estop on purpose and have some sort of strange signal from EMF that distupts the stop command on modbus ?
[06:45:03] <Connor> but, the computer is still running.
[06:45:20] <Connor> which means the watchdog on the modbus doesn't see the modbus keep-alive die.
[06:45:22] <zeeshan|2> theres 2 sorts of error checking
[06:45:33] <zeeshan|2> lemme tell you the exact term
[06:46:24] <zeeshan|2> transmission fault treatment
[06:46:32] <zeeshan|2> and over-time detect (watchdog timer)
[06:46:50] <zeeshan|2> so if emf happens, it'd be a transmission fault error
[06:47:23] <zeeshan|2> i'm not trying to argue with you about this
[06:47:32] <Connor> I just think it would be safer to put a contactor in series with the spindle source side.
[06:47:37] <zeeshan|2> i just dont know if its worth all that headache
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[06:47:45] <zeeshan|2> because i already have a breaker box
[06:47:53] <zeeshan|2> what youre describing requires me to buy bolt on breakers
[06:48:14] <zeeshan|2> and somehow find din rails that can accept 3 awg wire
[06:48:20] <zeeshan|2> din blocks that is
[06:48:51] <zeeshan|2> (do they exist?)
[06:48:58] <Connor> I'm sure they do.
[06:49:24] <zeeshan|2> i personally like what youre describing
[06:49:33] <zeeshan|2> because it also means i dont have to run a ghetto breaker box inside my control panel
[06:49:39] <zeeshan|2> i can have a nice clean setup.
[06:49:48] <Connor> exactly.
[06:49:50] <zeeshan|2> the only thing i dont like is the neutral bar will be exposed
[06:49:57] <zeeshan|2> but i can make a cover for it
[06:50:16] <zeeshan|2> http://www.amazon.com/Distribution-Block-Input-Output-Outputs/dp/B007UU7M8G
[06:50:20] <zeeshan|2> youre talking about something like that right?
[06:50:49] <Connor> No. I'm talking about normal DIN blocks with center tap jumpers on them
[06:51:10] <zeeshan|2> the wire that goes between the din rail block
[06:51:17] <zeeshan|2> and breaker will be not protected
[06:51:40] <zeeshan|2> *be
[06:51:51] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_10_31_14_01.jpg
[06:52:06] <Connor> okay.. upper right hand area.
[06:52:17] <zeeshan|2> right above the wire raceway?
[06:52:27] <Connor> Yes. That's my AC
[06:52:36] <Connor> I feed in from the bottom.
[06:52:42] <Connor> they have a bridge clip in the center.
[06:52:52] <zeeshan|2> i think i have a bunch of them from my old control cabinet
[06:52:55] <Connor> you feed out from the top.
[06:52:59] <Connor> BINGO! :)
[06:53:03] <zeeshan|2> the thing though man
[06:53:17] <zeeshan|2> the reason i stopped is because everyone in here was giving me a lecture on the wire that goes from block
[06:53:20] <zeeshan|2> to breaker
[06:53:23] <zeeshan|2> is unprotected.
[06:53:29] <Connor> I have 1 for load, 1 for neutral, 1 for ground.
[06:53:44] <Connor> unprotected how ?
[06:53:56] <zeeshan|2> so i have 5 drives right
[06:54:02] <zeeshan|2> so the upstream breaker will be 5*15A..
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[06:54:16] <zeeshan|2> a wire will go from that 75A breaker to the din block
[06:54:23] <zeeshan|2> and then 14 awg wires go from the din block to the breakers
[06:54:27] <zeeshan|2> and from breakers to servo drives
[06:54:37] <renesis> BREAKER TRAIN
[06:54:40] <renesis> WOOOOOWOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[06:54:44] <renesis> sorry, heh
[06:54:46] <zeeshan|2> the 14awg wire if it shorts on the chassis for some reason
[06:54:52] <zeeshan|2> (the on between din block and breaker)
[06:54:58] <zeeshan|2> will not trip the upstream 75A breaker.
[06:55:02] <zeeshan|2> it'll go on fire
[06:55:39] <zeeshan|2> so the only solution would be to run instead of a 14awg wire, a wire that handles 75A.
[06:55:43] <zeeshan|2> till the 15A breaker
[06:55:46] <zeeshan|2> which is retarded
[06:56:52] <renesis> do you have a new diagram
[06:57:05] <zeeshan|2> renesis: pretty much what you saw before
[06:57:06] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/ZLzwTjq.png
[06:57:09] <zeeshan|2> just added the servo drives
[06:57:13] <Connor> okay, mains breaker -- to a Din block -- 1 side for always on essentials, 1 side for drive stuff..
[06:57:22] <zeeshan|2> and connor
[06:57:27] <zeeshan|2> another thing to notice with my circuit diagram
[06:57:32] <zeeshan|2> is L1 and L2 are load balanced
[06:57:39] <renesis> oh neat its not just a screencap this time
[06:57:43] <Connor> from it, to contactor, from contactor to distribution DIN's to your 15Amp breakers to your servo's.
[06:57:43] <renesis> progress!
[06:57:47] <zeeshan|2> renesis: still a scren cap
[06:57:49] <zeeshan|2> just cropped lol
[06:58:24] <Connor> The ONLY thing that probably should have power that's not on e-stop would be fans, lights, and the computer itself.
[06:58:32] <renesis> ha
[06:58:39] <Connor> coolant, hydro etc probably should all be on e-stop
[06:58:42] <renesis> zeeshan|2: you cant save as png at high dpi?
[06:58:50] <zeeshan|2> renesis: its giving me issues
[06:58:51] <renesis> reading the text sucks
[06:58:55] <renesis> sucks
[06:58:57] <zeeshan|2> its mainly cause i dont know how to expoert correctly
[07:00:03] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ti3t81sxkky36in/AAAGffuUME_d8rCreVbBW2Jxa/SCHEMATICS?dl=0#lh:null-maho_400e_schematics_17.png
[07:00:10] <zeeshan|2> this is how the machine did it oacotry
[07:00:24] <zeeshan|2> *factory
[07:00:39] <Connor> okay.. time for bed.
[07:00:44] <zeeshan|2> gnite
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[07:00:52] <renesis> wtf is that symbol
[07:00:56] <zeeshan|2> which one
[07:00:59] <renesis> bowtie resistor
[07:01:16] <renesis> rheostat?
[07:01:30] <zeeshan|2> my own diagram
[07:01:35] <zeeshan|2> or original machine diagram
[07:01:47] <renesis> machine diagram, the one you linked
[07:02:09] <zeeshan|2> no idea
[07:02:10] <zeeshan|2> lol
[07:02:48] <zeeshan|2> as far as i understand
[07:02:53] <zeeshan|2> 851 951 and 1051
[07:02:57] <zeeshan|2> are all 24VDC relays.
[07:03:03] <zeeshan|2> they're just breaking the enable signal.
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[07:03:05] <renesis> are you still tripping on the little things off the 15A breaker?
[07:03:15] <zeeshan|2> renesis: nah man
[07:03:22] <zeeshan|2> worrying about e-stop chain
[07:03:22] <renesis> or this is just a wire gage before another breaker thing
[07:03:50] <zeeshan|2> the way connor is running his e-stop chain
[07:03:58] <zeeshan|2> is basically killing the power to the power supply for the steppers
[07:04:12] <zeeshan|2> i'm trying to say that my servo drives need a signal grounded to enable them
[07:04:36] <zeeshan|2> the only time they're enabled is when the computer sends a signal to the 7i77
[07:04:46] <zeeshan|2> if the computer freezes, the watchdog will fail
[07:04:53] <zeeshan|2> and disable the drives
[07:04:56] <renesis> how long is watchdog
[07:05:10] <renesis> ms, seconds, what
[07:05:23] <zeeshan|2> 50ms
[07:05:38] <renesis> pretty fast
[07:05:44] <zeeshan|2> vfd one is similar
[07:05:52] <zeeshan|2> what connor is basically is saying is
[07:05:56] <zeeshan|2> if you have some emf spike
[07:06:04] <zeeshan|2> and the signal from the computer to 7i77 becomes garbled
[07:06:11] <zeeshan|2> the computer is still on, so the watchdog doesnt fail
[07:06:16] <zeeshan|2> but the servos fail to disable.
[07:06:44] <renesis> how often does the pc update the drive
[07:06:52] <renesis> just on changes?
[07:07:02] <zeeshan|2> i'm not sure
[07:07:05] <zeeshan|2> but a lot faster than 50ms
[07:07:06] <zeeshan|2> :P
[07:07:28] <zeeshan|2> honestly im just thinking fuck it
[07:07:37] <renesis> wait so your estop does what
[07:07:50] <zeeshan|2> my e-stop is computer controlled
[07:07:51] <renesis> who cares about the watchdog, you just disable the drives
[07:08:08] <zeeshan|2> it sends a signal to linuxcnc which tells shit to close down
[07:08:26] <zeeshan|2> but i agree thats not the right way to do things
[07:08:30] <renesis> linux cnc is the computer
[07:08:32] <zeeshan|2> what i need to do is
[07:08:41] <zeeshan|2> have all ENABLE and modbus signals
[07:08:44] <zeeshan|2> go through a relay
[07:08:55] <zeeshan|2> when i press e-stop it kills the relay
[07:09:00] <zeeshan|2> which breaks the connection for the drives
[07:09:04] <renesis> your steppers have an enable pin, right?
[07:09:21] <zeeshan|2> and breaks the signal to all the vfds (which will automatically tell watchdog to fail)
[07:09:30] <zeeshan|2> servo drives and disabled
[07:09:35] <zeeshan|2> unless your ground the enable pin
[07:10:03] <renesis> i dont dunerstand why you are breaking signal to shut the drives down
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[07:10:11] <renesis> they have enable signals
[07:10:17] <renesis> right?
[07:10:20] <zeeshan|2> cause im talkiung about 2 things
[07:10:24] <zeeshan|2> the servos are easy
[07:10:30] <zeeshan|2> you just relay the enable signals
[07:10:33] <zeeshan|2> w/ an e-stop button
[07:10:34] <renesis> something doesnt have an enable pin?
[07:10:40] <zeeshan|2> yea, the 3 vfds
[07:10:53] <zeeshan|2> they'll all be working through modbus
[07:11:08] <zeeshan|2> its too much nonsense tryying to run logic wires to em
[07:11:16] <zeeshan|2> with modbus its literally 2 wires.
[07:11:30] <renesis> wait so they do have enables but its too much nonsense
[07:11:34] <archivist> dont over do safety, think about tapping when you hit stop
[07:11:57] <zeeshan|2> archivist: thats the thing
[07:12:03] <zeeshan|2> i really think killing the main power to the servo drives
[07:12:05] <zeeshan|2> or even the vfds
[07:12:11] <zeeshan|2> is determinental to the system
[07:12:22] <zeeshan|2> cause you're all the sudden discharging the capaicators
[07:12:56] <zeeshan|2> almost all vfd manuals say something along the lines that every power cycle reduces the life of the caps.
[07:13:13] <zeeshan|2> especially when you do it under load
[07:14:08] <zeeshan|2> on the lathe controller
[07:14:23] <zeeshan|2> i run a wire through the charge pump signal
[07:14:29] <zeeshan|2> which ends up killing everything
[07:14:39] <renesis> what happens when you disable the vfd with the logic pin
[07:14:53] <zeeshan|2> renesis: it disables :P
[07:15:15] <renesis> right but it prob doesnt just turn power off
[07:15:18] <zeeshan|2> connor was trying to explain that if you try to send a run command over modbus
[07:15:21] <zeeshan|2> its a bad idea
[07:15:34] <zeeshan|2> because if the data gets garbled, the vfd won't ever see a stop command
[07:15:57] <zeeshan|2> renesis: it puts it fault mode
[07:16:01] <zeeshan|2> which coasts the motor to a stop
[07:16:18] <zeeshan|2> or you can rapidly stop the motor if you have a brake
[07:16:22] <zeeshan|2> braking resistor
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[07:17:29] <zeeshan|2> its way too late to be putting effort into thinking :)
[07:18:07] <renesis> well if its a safety thing, just hit the pin with a relay, use pull up or down resistor to disabled state
[07:18:35] <zeeshan|2> breaking the modbus signal
[07:18:38] <zeeshan|2> does the exact same thing
[07:18:43] <zeeshan|2> it'll detect a transmission fault
[07:18:56] <renesis> is your estop to an electrical circuit or a pc input
[07:19:06] <renesis> if its electrical i wouldnt rely on the pc
[07:19:15] <zeeshan|2> the goal is it's electrical
[07:19:18] <zeeshan|2> 2 relays
[07:19:18] <renesis> what if the pc fucking up is why youre estopping
[07:19:24] <renesis> if its through your pc, shrug
[07:19:31] <zeeshan|2> 1 relay kills enable pins on servo drives
[07:19:33] <renesis> timebomb anyway =)
[07:19:34] <zeeshan|2> and 1 relay kills modbus signal
[07:19:41] <zeeshan|2> which pretty much kills everything
[07:20:05] <zeeshan|2> pc also gets a signal that e-stop is triggered
[07:20:17] <zeeshan|2> buit it wont be doing any physical switching on anything
[07:20:21] <renesis> why do you kill a modbus signal instead of just using the disable
[07:20:25] <zeeshan|2> less wires
[07:20:27] <renesis> because its easy?
[07:20:37] <renesis> one less signal wire?
[07:20:39] <zeeshan|2> less faulty tripping
[07:20:55] <zeeshan|2> its 3 wires pwer vfd
[07:21:00] <zeeshan|2> and 3 common wires per vfd gone
[07:21:14] <zeeshan|2> modbus is daisy chained between 3 vfds
[07:21:20] <renesis> how is it 3 wires per vfd
[07:21:30] <zeeshan|2> not per
[07:21:32] <renesis> to do an electrical estop signal
[07:22:24] <renesis> its one relay if you dont already have one going to the level you need, and wires to connect the shit
[07:23:03] <renesis> if its not a pullup/down input, its justy hiz input, i would put my own resistor to disable level in
[07:24:12] <zeeshan|2> okay fine
[07:24:24] <zeeshan|2> ill just do an external fault for each vfd
[07:24:37] <zeeshan|2> it might mean 3 relays
[07:24:41] <zeeshan|2> 1 relay for all the servo drives
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[07:24:42] <renesis> how?
[07:24:51] <zeeshan|2> 1 for 2 identical v fds (theyre at 5v)
[07:24:58] <zeeshan|2> and 1 for the other vfd (its at 24v)
[07:25:13] <renesis> are they active low or high
[07:25:27] <zeeshan|2> you can make it either or
[07:25:40] <renesis> man you make everything so complicated
[07:25:58] <renesis> everything enable low
[07:26:22] <renesis> estop in run position, you have a relay pull everything low by one relay
[07:26:49] <zeeshan|2> thats true
[07:26:53] <zeeshan|2> that's how they do it in cars
[07:26:54] <zeeshan|2> :D
[07:26:58] <renesis> estop in ohshit position, relay opens, everything gets pulled up through resistors to disable state
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[07:27:32] <zeeshan|2> i still disagree about the fact
[07:27:37] <zeeshan|2> that you cant send a "run command" through modbus
[07:27:56] <renesis> you can do whatever the fuck you want if you estop works
[07:27:56] <zeeshan|2> thats pretty much how all damn plcs communicate w/ conveyor vfds
[07:28:16] <zeeshan|2> 24VDC wire 1000 feet away
[07:28:26] <zeeshan|2> just to 'run'
[07:28:39] <zeeshan|2> then antoher one for reverse/forward
[07:29:38] <renesis> is your shit all hiz logic input?
[07:29:46] <zeeshan|2> hiz?
[07:30:19] <renesis> high input impedance, standard logic gate input, isnt pulled up or down, isnt the base of a common transistor
[07:30:44] <zeeshan|2> youre getting too advanced
[07:30:46] <zeeshan|2> for my understanding :P
[07:31:32] <renesis> jezus fuck youre as bad as the grad instructor
[07:31:46] <zeeshan|2> lol if you keep swearing in here
[07:31:48] <zeeshan|2> you gonna get banned!
[07:32:08] <renesis> ask him if the outputs are source or sink or both and hes like, deer lights
[07:32:40] <renesis> well if i get banned for swearing i wouldnt feel bad about that at all
[07:32:45] <renesis> not like anyone got hurt
[07:33:09] <renesis> if someone is insulted that i say the jezus, shrug
[07:33:28] <zeeshan|2> i dont get the sourcing and sinking and fancy terminology
[07:33:36] <zeeshan|2> i just understand 'i gotta ground this pin' to make it work
[07:33:41] <zeeshan|2> or "give this pin 5v" to make it work
[07:33:46] <zeeshan|2> thats good enough in my books
[07:34:02] <renesis> well in a lot of cases you give the pin nothing
[07:34:04] <renesis> and it works
[07:34:18] <zeeshan|2> i guess by make it work
[07:34:18] <renesis> or you pull it high or low to do one thing
[07:34:20] <zeeshan|2> i mean "change state"
[07:34:34] <renesis> and you can pull it the other way to not do that, or you can just do nothing
[07:34:43] <renesis> right thats what im saying, change state
[07:35:10] <zeeshan|2> okay looks like the 2 diffferent brand vfds will work together
[07:35:18] <zeeshan|2> both have pull up resistors
[07:35:25] <zeeshan|2> so i can join their commons
[07:35:28] <renesis> if theyre logic input, high impedance, no pull ups or pull downs
[07:35:44] <renesis> you just need one relay and bunch of resistors, 1K resistors prob work fine
[07:36:40] <zeeshan|2> its just so much easier
[07:36:45] <zeeshan|2> to break the modbus signal
[07:36:45] <zeeshan|2> lol
[07:36:48] <zeeshan|2> less thinking
[07:36:48] <zeeshan|2> less work
[07:36:56] <zeeshan|2> it accomplishes the same thing
[07:37:08] <renesis> if these things have pullups, its one more wire
[07:37:11] <renesis> thats it
[07:37:19] <renesis> and a cheaper relay
[07:37:19] <zeeshan|2> the amount of time we talked about this
[07:37:24] <zeeshan|2> i coulda have gotten it done already
[07:37:25] <zeeshan|2> =D
[07:37:27] <renesis> modbus is balanced, no?
[07:37:40] <zeeshan|2> its a differntial signal
[07:37:58] <renesis> same thing, you need to break both channels
[07:38:08] <renesis> need a dual pole relay
[07:38:28] <renesis> also putting balanced signals through a relay is maybe not great
[07:38:49] <zeeshan|2> why?
[07:38:57] <renesis> mostly i would be worried about noise on the coil getting into the switches
[07:39:15] <renesis> itll pull the balanced signals apart
[07:39:24] <renesis> which means theyre not going to get the same noise
[07:39:38] <renesis> killing the whole balanced pair thing
[07:40:01] <renesis> just a tiny but, but right next to a possible noise carrier (the relay coil)
[07:40:16] <zeeshan|2> solid state relayu
[07:40:18] <zeeshan|2> problem solved
[07:40:19] <zeeshan|2> =P
[07:40:23] <renesis> heh, my guess is that the switches are not magnetically shielded from the coil
[07:40:26] <renesis> wtf
[07:40:32] <renesis> i should slap you
[07:40:39] <renesis> bringing a triac into this
[07:41:13] <zeeshan|2> well
[07:41:16] <zeeshan|2> theres no magnetic nonsense
[07:41:22] <zeeshan|2> so there goes the noise issue
[07:41:24] <renesis> you want to do balanced right, you twist the pairs tight, all the way
[07:41:41] <renesis> what do you mean no magnetic nonsense
[07:41:44] <renesis> in a SSR?
[07:41:50] <zeeshan|2> im talking about a regular relay
[07:41:50] <renesis> i dont think that shit will work
[07:41:52] <zeeshan|2> theres noise like you
[07:41:53] <zeeshan|2> 're saying
[07:41:57] <renesis> theyre not really relays
[07:42:31] <renesis> i think some might be fets
[07:42:43] <renesis> those things are fucking expensive, too
[07:43:12] <renesis> anyway, do youre diff shit right
[07:43:13] <zeeshan|2> surplus store has em cheap
[07:43:20] <zeeshan|2> look at this
[07:43:28] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/WIeD5yz.png
[07:43:28] <renesis> arent they usually just for ac?
[07:43:30] <renesis> the cheap ones
[07:43:34] <renesis> theyre potted triacs
[07:43:35] <zeeshan|2> spindle vfd
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[07:43:44] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/F6PlWb3.png
[07:43:46] <zeeshan|2> other vfds
[07:44:09] <zeeshan|2> ignore the crap about "Forward/stop"
[07:44:14] <renesis> reset is disable?
[07:44:18] <zeeshan|2> d1 pin is reconfigurable to a whole bunch of different things.
[07:44:23] <zeeshan|2> d1 can be set to "fault"
[07:44:28] <zeeshan|2> so if you short d1 and gnd
[07:44:30] <zeeshan|2> it faults
[07:44:47] <zeeshan|2> same with FR
[07:44:48] <renesis> its opto isolated
[07:44:51] <zeeshan|2> and BC on the other vfd
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[07:44:54] <renesis> cool
[07:45:10] <renesis> you just need to ground it out
[07:45:22] <zeeshan|2> the thing i dont like is
[07:45:25] <renesis> http://i.imgur.com/F6PlWb3.png
[07:45:27] <renesis> that one
[07:45:35] <zeeshan|2> yea
[07:45:41] <zeeshan|2> to make these work through the same relay
[07:45:47] <zeeshan|2> i'd need to join gnd on that one
[07:45:49] <zeeshan|2> w/ bc on the other one
[07:45:59] <renesis> whats the shutdown pin on the other schematic
[07:46:06] <zeeshan|2> FR to BC
[07:46:08] <zeeshan|2> will shut it down
[07:47:01] <renesis> same deal, its opto isolated
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[07:47:46] <zeeshan|2> "sink"
[07:47:48] <renesis> BR is some sort of ground, but its not chassis ground
[07:47:51] <zeeshan|2> is when you short fr and bc
[07:47:51] <zeeshan|2> right?
[07:47:54] <renesis> so prob some sort of comm ground
[07:47:57] <zeeshan|2> that it changes state
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[07:48:06] <renesis> yeah
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[07:48:15] <zeeshan|2> okay so yea thats how it works
[07:48:17] <renesis> its pullup with a led in series
[07:48:18] <zeeshan|2> fr to bc disables
[07:48:36] <renesis> is br floating or will grounding it break all the things
[07:48:51] <zeeshan|2> i dont know
[07:48:55] <zeeshan|2> i just know fr to bc disables it
[07:49:04] <renesis> lots of text in the manual?
[07:49:06] <zeeshan|2> if you measure voltage betwen fr and bc
[07:49:09] <renesis> it will prob mention something
[07:49:14] <zeeshan|2> its 24VDC
[07:49:19] <renesis> right
[07:49:23] <zeeshan|2> if you measure voltage between d1 and gnd
[07:49:24] <zeeshan|2> its 5vdc
[07:49:29] <renesis> but measure voltage of both sides to chassis
[07:49:45] <renesis> if both side meaure 0v, its floating versus chassis ground
[07:49:51] <renesis> or digital ground
[07:49:54] <zeeshan|2> 100% its floating
[07:50:04] <renesis> hard to tell
[07:50:11] <zeeshan|2> you know how i know this
[07:50:20] <zeeshan|2> i tried to short between d1
[07:50:22] <zeeshan|2> and chassis ground
[07:50:24] <zeeshan|2> nothing happened
[07:50:24] <zeeshan|2> lol
[07:50:26] <renesis> you tied it to shit and its not dead?
[07:50:45] <zeeshan|2> so youre right its optically isolated
[07:51:04] <zeeshan|2> so if i tie gnd + bc
[07:51:13] <zeeshan|2> so its commonly shared floating grounds
[07:51:28] <renesis> well its not floating anymore
[07:51:28] <zeeshan|2> and then join fr and d1 together
[07:51:33] <zeeshan|2> wont that blow things up
[07:51:37] <zeeshan|2> cause ones at 24vdc the others at 5
[07:51:37] <renesis> what
[07:51:48] <renesis> is the 5v floating?
[07:52:01] <zeeshan|2> yes
[07:52:07] <zeeshan|2> it wont read 5v between that pin and chassis.
[07:52:19] <renesis> well that could mean the pin is low
[07:52:26] <renesis> shrug
[07:52:31] <renesis> or has pulldowns
[07:52:31] <zeeshan|2> reads 5v between d1 and gnd
[07:52:45] <renesis> k
[07:53:06] <renesis> you tie the grounds to real ground
[07:53:16] <zeeshan|2> real ground = chassis ground?
[07:53:18] <renesis> whatever youre system psu ground shit is
[07:53:24] <zeeshan|2> ok
[07:53:27] <zeeshan|2> so where the star is
[07:53:41] <renesis> yeah thats usually not a bad idea
[07:54:06] <zeeshan|2> man
[07:54:14] <zeeshan|2> im just gonna throw the 2 vfds that are identical opn one relay
[07:54:17] <zeeshan|2> and put this pos on another
[07:54:18] <renesis> then you twi fuck why do they have the other relay
[07:54:19] <zeeshan|2> and call it a day
[07:54:35] <zeeshan|2> relays are cheap
[07:54:37] <zeeshan|2> :P
[07:55:08] <zeeshan|2> i need to do this on my lathe cnc
[07:55:09] <renesis> and yeah that will work
[07:55:13] <zeeshan|2> im currently killing the modbus
[07:55:18] <zeeshan|2> well actually
[07:55:19] <zeeshan|2> i lie
[07:55:22] <zeeshan|2> i'm not killing modbus
[07:55:31] <zeeshan|2> im just relying on transmission fault or wtachdog failure
[07:55:33] <zeeshan|2> to kill it
[07:55:34] <renesis> youre just not doing anything except sending vfd stop
[07:55:58] <renesis> you kill the pc?
[07:56:10] <zeeshan|2> no lol
[07:56:18] <renesis> brutal
[07:56:26] <zeeshan|2> my main e-stop circuit which kills the stepper drives on the lathe
[07:56:32] <zeeshan|2> at the same time sends the pc a signal its in e-stop mode
[07:56:37] <zeeshan|2> which communicates with modbus
[07:56:42] <zeeshan|2> to tell vfd to shut up
[07:56:46] <renesis> right ans it stops the spindle
[07:57:07] <zeeshan|2> i personally see that working all the time
[07:57:11] <zeeshan|2> even if computer freezes
[07:57:20] <zeeshan|2> but i guess its good practice
[07:57:25] <zeeshan|2> just to use the disable pins on the vfd
[07:57:30] <zeeshan|2> that way you take no chances
[07:57:48] <zeeshan|2> okay this sucked the energy out of me
[07:57:49] <zeeshan|2> thanks
[07:57:51] <zeeshan|2> !
[07:57:53] <zeeshan|2> gnite man
[07:57:54] <renesis> well its usually not good practice to split diff signals if you can avoid it
[07:57:56] <renesis> nite
[07:58:23] <renesis> they prob make diff relays with industrial ratings, theyre prob $$$
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[07:59:38] <Deejay> moinsen
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[12:21:46] <Tom_itx> quiet 38F morning...
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[12:30:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: <--- Poor bastard! Or shouldI say Cold Bastard?
[12:32:26] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/timing_pulley_index.php
[12:34:19] <jthornton> looking good, how does the encoder work?
[12:35:10] <Tom_itx> up to about 5200 rpm
[12:35:35] <Tom_itx> for a cheap printer encoder it works good
[12:35:41] <Tom_itx> i wish it had an index
[12:36:26] <jthornton> looks like you could mount an encoder like I did on the BP knee mill
[12:36:53] <Tom_itx> i could except sometimes i need a bolt thru the center for a drill chuck etc
[12:36:59] <Tom_itx> i wish there was a way around that
[12:37:31] <Tom_itx> or other attachments like flycutter etc
[12:37:50] <jthornton> I missed that
[12:38:07] <jthornton> a 1:1 belt would work
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[12:44:25] <Tom_itx> i could get one of these but i think my collet is tapered instead of threaded. i'd have to check for sure: http://www.a2zcorp.us/store/ProductDetailNP.asp?Cguid={837734A6-B0F6-4848-B38E-B8A184C0C99C}&ProductID=4609&Category=ThreadedArbor:Sherline
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[13:05:36] <_methods> http://linuxgizmos.com/beaglebone-cape-eases-access-to-the-sitara-socs-pru/
[13:05:49] <_methods> looks like TI is jumpin in
[13:05:53] <_methods> might be interesting
[13:09:44] <jthornton> 32f here
[13:11:48] <jdh> brrr
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[17:07:25] <Rab> Ceramic is better, but the open-frame construction is still susceptible to dirt. Definitely shell out the extra for a name-brand supplier, who can provide ratings for contact life etc.
[17:07:30] <Connor> X Y Z A Spindle Feed
[17:07:42] <pcw_home> you can also use Gray code to cut the number of inputs needed
[17:08:05] <PetefromTn_> how is that done
[17:08:55] <pcw_home> a multi pole switch
[17:09:07] <PetefromTn_> Connor have you already sorted out how to implement all of those adjustments in linuxCNC. Being able to adjust spindle and feedrate with the mpg would be sweet
[17:09:11] postaL_offline is now known as postaL
[17:09:38] <Connor> 2 inputs for 4 selections, 3 inputs for 8 selection, 4 inputs for 16 selections. (per swtich)
[16:10:23] <PetefromTn_> Wow that would be awesome on the Cinci.
[16:10:44] <pcw_home> and Gray rather than binary so you cant get any selection other than adjacent position when turning
[16:10:44] <PetefromTn_> would make general operations go much quicker IE setup and touchoff etc.
[16:11:03] <Connor> I ordered one of these last night too.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-3-Axis-4-axis-USB-HandWheel-MPG-pendant-for-Mach-3-engraving-Router-system-/181390548620?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
[16:11:20] <PetefromTn_> DId you really!!
[16:11:26] <PetefromTn_> Awe man I want one of those.
[16:11:37] <PetefromTn_> Glad to know I may get to see one here in person
[16:11:59] <PetefromTn_> that looks like a nice setup.
[16:12:13] <Connor> We'll see.
[16:12:28] <Connor> I'm a little nervous about getting the correct one.
[16:12:40] <PetefromTn_> what I don't understand tho is if you have an MPG on the pendant there you bought and one like I do on the main panel how do you differentiate which one is active etc..
[16:12:50] <Connor> pcw_home: How do you read the voltage on inputs 0-4 ?
[16:13:06] <Rab> PetefromTn_, honestly, using a switch to select axes seems too fiddly to me. I have a 3-axis industrial joystick set up as a USB HID for positioning: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/joystick.jpg
[16:13:16] <pcw_home> 0 through 3
[16:13:23] <Connor> sorry. yes.. 0-3
[16:13:36] <zeeshan|2> RAB
[16:13:39] <zeeshan|2> where did you score that
[16:13:40] <zeeshan|2> haha
[16:14:03] <Connor> I have a joystick similar to that from a Power Chair.
[16:14:20] <Rab> zeeshan|2, from a video effects console from a flea market. ;)
[16:14:20] <PetefromTn_> that is nice but how do you figure rotary switches are fiddly>
[16:16:20] <Rab> PetefromTn_, because you have to click-click-click to get to the axis you want.
[16:16:20] <PetefromTn_> they have been making machining centers that way for years.
[16:16:20] <pcw_home> you enable mode 2 on the field I/O (or mode 3 if you want MPG inputs)
[16:16:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah how does your joystick work?
[16:16:20] <Rab> PetefromTn_, that means it's a professional way of doing things, but it doesn't mean it's a good UI.
[16:16:20] <Connor> I'll be doing mode 3 so I can use the MPG
[16:16:20] <Connor> net analog0 hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.analogin0
[16:16:20] <zeeshan|2> very cool
[16:16:20] <_methods> PetefromTn_: are you sure you should be askin him how his joystick works?
[16:16:20] <Connor> then somehow take analog0 check it's value go from there.
[16:16:20] <zeeshan|2> ROFL _methods
[16:16:20] <PetefromTn_> methods.. YUP
[16:16:20] <_methods> heheh
[16:16:20] <Rab> PetefromTn_, there are thresholds in firmware. As the joystick is pushed along any axis, it sends the keycodes to jog faster and faster (and recovers when it moves back to center).
[16:16:29] <PetefromTn_> so this is for jogging
[16:16:45] <PetefromTn_> not incremental
[16:16:50] <Rab> PetefromTn_, it's not really a replacement for a jog wheel, unless I can think of something clever.
[16:17:21] <PetefromTn_> yeah I like the idea but for the Cincinatti I would think the selector rotary switch and the MPG makes more sense.
[16:17:35] <PetefromTn_> the machine actually came that way initially really
[16:17:38] <Rab> PetefromTn_, if I were using a jog wheel, I would use a set of pushbuttons for axis select so you don't have to click back and forth on a rotary switch. I guess that depends on how much pendant real estate you have.
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[16:18:09] <PetefromTn_> I have plenty of room but I thought adding the rotary would clean it up a bit.
[16:18:24] <Rab> PetefromTn_, if that interface is familiar and productive for you, I support recreating it.
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[16:19:20] <PetefromTn_> well actually it is not familiar the HAAS machines I ran use buttons for axes as you said the Cincinatti came with the rotary switches and I had about a month using it before the control died and I gutted it to start the retrofit.
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[16:20:17] <PetefromTn_> either way is fine with me but if we can get more options from the rotary switches and less real estate used up on the panel face it might be better to go with rotary switches I am thinking.
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[16:26:23] <Connor> Looking for examples that use analog input in a select case or if then type setup..
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[16:27:29] <Connor> I know I've seen someone do this.
[16:27:49] <Rab> Connor, that's exactly what I do with the joystick, but it's in microcontroller firmware. I'd be interested to see an example for HAL instead.
[16:29:57] <Connor> Hmm.. maybe the near component.
[16:31:35] <Connor> yea.. the near component.. can read in a value.. compare to a fixed value.. if the value is within the difference range.. it outputs a high bit.
[16:32:48] <PetefromTn_> so it is measuring a dc voltage or a resistance level?
[16:33:21] <Rab> PetefromTn_, here's a 5-position version of that switch: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/71BD36-01-2-AJN/GH7312-ND/1534717
[16:33:21] <Connor> using the resistor ladder, as a variable voltage divider.. it reads voltage levels.
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[16:33:40] <Rab> As a bonus it has two poles, which you can wire up in parallel for greater reliability.
[16:34:03] <PetefromTn_> Rab Thanks man.
[16:34:31] <PetefromTn_> I guess we would actually need six now since connor is looking at adding spindle and feedrate adjustment
[16:34:51] <PetefromTn_> X,Y,Z,A spindle feed
[16:35:08] <Connor> right and on the units.. OFF 1x 10x 100x 1000x 10000x
[16:35:18] <PetefromTn_> yes
[16:35:46] <PetefromTn_> or rather off,.1,.01,.001,.0001
[16:35:46] <Connor> or .1 .01 .001 .0001 .00001
[16:36:06] <PetefromTn_> you don't need that last bit ;)
[16:36:24] <zeeshan|2> can someone host a DWG file?
[16:36:35] <Connor> host it ?
[16:36:37] <jdh> like, on a google drive?
[16:36:50] <PetefromTn_> so a six position switch just like that one rab posted is probably what I need....two of them
[16:36:51] <zeeshan|2> yea i updated the drawing pcw sent
[16:36:53] <zeeshan|2> with pin labels
[16:37:00] <Rab> zeeshan|2, sure, if you can get it to me.
[16:37:21] <PetefromTn_> make it a .dxf
[16:37:26] <zeeshan|2> okay
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[16:38:25] <jdh> if it's not too late, make mine a cheeeeezburger.
[16:38:29] <jdh> nevermind.
[16:38:42] * zeeshan|2 hands jdh a rotten cheese burger
[16:38:44] <zeeshan|2> here you has.
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[16:41:01] <zeeshan|2> first time ive noticed this
[16:41:05] <zeeshan|2> dwg to dxf
[16:41:10] <zeeshan|2> 548kb to 3.4mb
[16:41:11] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:41:19] <zeeshan|2> i guess dxf is like a "step" file
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[16:41:58] <archivist> dxf is primitive
[16:42:00] <cpresser> .dxf is plaintext. open it with an editor
[16:42:11] <cpresser> dwg is just the same, with compression
[16:42:25] <zeeshan|2> ah
[16:42:43] <zeeshan|2> nice
[16:43:37] <Rab> http://reboots.g-cipher.net/zeeshan/
[16:43:39] <Connor> Is there such think as continues when using a MPG ?
[16:43:47] <zeeshan|2> <3 rab
[16:44:00] <Connor> continuous
[16:44:29] <zeeshan|2> i havent seen that on a mpg
[16:44:38] <zeeshan|2> but there will be a feed hold button on controllers
[16:45:32] <cpresser> Connor: you can use a lowpass-filter for that. i found that info somewhere on the linuxcnc-wiki
[16:46:01] <cpresser> Connor: thats how i did implement it: http://ca.rstenpresser.de/wp-files/2014/11/pendant.hal_.gz
[16:46:15] <varesa> What does a stepper motor current rating mean? Average total current? Max winding current? Something else?
[16:47:01] <archivist> current for stated torque/speed curve
[16:47:05] <Connor> cpresser:So, exactly what does that do for you?
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[16:47:44] <varesa> archivist: current measured how?
[16:48:19] <archivist> a current you set in the driver and its design
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[16:48:32] <cpresser> Connor: it does smooth out the movement. so instead of single 1mm movements, i get a somehow continous move
[16:49:23] <Connor> on all increment levels ?
[16:49:29] <cpresser> yes
[16:50:00] <cpresser> look at the hal-file. i did not comment it, but its pretty obvious how it works
[16:50:36] <Connor> I could see doing that on a single selection.. but not all of them..
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[16:51:14] <cpresser> in the end, the movement is exact
[16:51:33] <varesa> archivist: I know how to set it, but what exactly does that setting do? Is it per-winding or the total for the motor? Average or max/peak?
[16:51:42] <cpresser> but not seperated into small steps. all it does is smooth out the single exact movements
[16:53:06] <archivist> varesa, depends how you connect the windings too, there is bipolar (series/parallel) and unipolar
[16:53:58] <archivist> varesa, read a datasheet for a particular motor , but generally it is per coil
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[16:58:09] <varesa> archivist: okay. The reason I'm asking is I thought I'd make some more modern drives for my mill as a hobby/fun/learning project and I was trying to figure out how to size the FETs etc.
[16:59:44] <varesa> Well, reading the datasheet is not really easy. Right now this is as much information as I have on them: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/terco-mill-owner/8aHsjeYBoDc/JRhxJ_nWUHEJ Even that is from another, not necessary identical, machine from the same manufacturer
[17:02:43] <archivist> I would just retrofit with a leadshine or gecko drive with sensible 30-60v supply
[17:05:13] <PetefromTn_> oh cool is that a terco mini machining center? Does it have the little toolchanger?
[17:06:24] <zeeshan|2> PCW can i use one pair of enables through a relay to enable all servo drives?
[17:06:29] <zeeshan|2> or will that be too much current consumption
[17:06:29] <varesa> PetefromTn_: This looking thing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wyngnjw1ei6gfx/2014-10-26%2016.26.04.jpg?dl=0
[17:06:39] <zeeshan|2> enables on the 7i77 that is
[17:07:01] <varesa> It has a small pneumatic quick release thing and a tool holder that screws on to the end of the table
[17:07:08] <PetefromTn_> yeah I think some of those came with tiny toolchangers on them pretty sweet little machine.
[17:07:25] <PetefromTn_> yup
[17:07:27] <pcw_home> normally you wire each enable to each drive
[17:07:30] <PetefromTn_> sweet little machine.
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[17:08:00] <varesa> PetefromTn_: Yeah. I think I just need to get new drives for it before it is really usable
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[17:08:17] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: yes, but i have an e-stop relay
[17:08:23] <zeeshan|2> that kills power to servo drives
[17:08:27] <PetefromTn_> check out those new leadshine closed loop steppers and drivers
[17:08:30] <zeeshan|2> i'd need to run 5 relays if i ran seeperate signals
[17:08:59] <pcw_home> you dont need relays for the enables
[17:09:21] <zeeshan|2> what turns off the power to the servo drives when i press e-stop?
[17:09:23] <varesa> PetefromTn_: sounds expensive :p
[17:09:51] <PetefromTn_> not really just a bit more than an open loop stepper and drive combo
[17:09:55] <pcw_home> that should be a contactor tha removes primary power from the drives/spindle
[17:10:14] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: i don't want to do that
[17:10:28] <pcw_home> It must be done that way
[17:10:39] <pcw_home> not safe otherwise
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[17:11:00] <zeeshan|2> in the vfd manuals it says not to power cycle the vfd
[17:11:09] <zeeshan|2> they have a pin for external fault
[17:11:37] <pcw_home> you _must_ remove primary power on estop
[17:12:31] <pcw_home> nothing else can really guarantee no motion
[17:12:56] <PetefromTn_> varesa Some inspiration!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-HtGWHNXPM
[17:13:05] <pcw_home> Estop should not happen very often...
[17:13:28] <jdh> nifty looking machine. I assume you aren't married.
[17:14:13] <varesa> jdh: no I'm not
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[17:14:32] <PetefromTn_> why do you say that hehe
[17:15:16] <varesa> but I am a student so all the ready-made drives look really expensive :(
[17:15:22] <pcw_home> the drive enables are typically wired to the motion enable signal in HAL so the drives can be disabled by a following error
[17:15:24] <pcw_home> and are not enabled until linuxcnc has control (PID loops closed)
[17:15:54] <pcw_home> E-Stop is totally separate
[17:16:49] <zeeshan|2> sigh
[17:16:52] <zeeshan|2> it just seems so aggressive
[17:17:02] <zeeshan|2> to kill the power to the primary on the servo drives and vfd spindles
[17:17:06] <zeeshan|2> thats gonna cause a massive arc
[17:17:15] <zeeshan|2> especially if things are at full load
[17:17:48] <zeeshan|2> it's been a long time so i could be wrongb
[17:17:48] <pcw_home> well it should only happen in an emergency
[17:17:54] <varesa> even something like mx3660 is more than what I paid for the mill :(
[17:17:56] <zeeshan|2> but i remember the siemens control @ work
[17:18:03] <zeeshan|2> when you pressed e-stop, you could still hear the VFD fans running
[17:18:27] <zeeshan|2> to access the control panel, you had to do a lockout procedure, where you taged out the disconnect switch
[17:18:47] <pcw_home> fans may be on a separate circuit (and often are to)
[17:18:57] <zeeshan|2> it was standard procedure that machine operators @ the end of the shift would press e-stop before leaving
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[17:19:07] <zeeshan|2> (24hour facility, so 3 e-stop events per day)
[17:19:46] <zeeshan|2> what button are you spposed to press when you can see a tool is about to crash into the spindle?
[17:19:50] <zeeshan|2> we usually pressed e-stop
[17:20:13] <PetefromTn_> you only press estop at the end of the day AFTER the machine is powered down and drives disabled.
[17:20:15] <pcw_home> thats what its for
[17:20:32] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: we wouldnt power down the machines
[17:20:38] <zeeshan|2> cause otherwise you'd need a warm up procedure
[17:20:50] <zeeshan|2> the only time machines were shut down was during a lightning storm
[17:20:53] <PetefromTn_> you left drives enabled all the time during the night?
[17:20:58] <zeeshan|2> yep
[17:21:03] <zeeshan|2> nightshift would be working on the machine
[17:21:11] <PetefromTn_> you ALWAYS warm up a machine after night cold sets in.
[17:21:21] <zeeshan|2> please read what i said..
[17:21:23] <PetefromTn_> well thats different
[17:21:24] <zeeshan|2> its a 24 hour facility
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[17:21:32] <zeeshan|2> the machines never are idle
[17:21:40] <PetefromTn_> then why do they hit estop?
[17:21:51] <zeeshan|2> because theres a 30 min delay in between each shift
[17:21:52] <zeeshan|2> sometimes 1 hour
[17:21:56] <zeeshan|2> depending on shift meeting
[17:22:02] <PetefromTn_> so just power down the drives
[17:22:08] <PetefromTn_> no need to go into estop for that
[17:22:15] <jdh> that's a nifty looking machine. you should cut your losses and just sell it to me.
[17:23:13] <PetefromTn_> if there is a 30 minute delay between shifts and they want the machines in estop for safety reasons then repowering it would not necessitate a warmup program
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[17:23:35] <zeeshan|2> PCW: can you explain why its unsafe to just disable the drive?
[17:23:48] <varesa> or just put the original drives back in and hope they work? ;)
[17:24:00] <zeeshan|2> you're thinking a stray voltage might come into the +/-10v analog signal
[17:24:03] <zeeshan|2> and cause the servo to move?
[17:24:23] <pcw_home> because a componat failure couls cause a runaway you cant stop
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[17:24:41] <zeeshan|2> i guess what i need is a "SOFT e-stop"
[17:24:44] <zeeshan|2> and a real e-stop
[17:24:44] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:24:45] <pcw_home> Estop _MUST_ remove primary drive power
[17:25:40] <zeeshan|2> looks like i'm going to need to add a contactor on the lathe panel
[17:25:41] <zeeshan|2> :P
[17:26:08] <pcw_home> Its already there (drive faults/ ferrors disable the drive, but the BRS disconnects power)
[17:26:46] <pcw_home> so the drive enables are not related to E-Stop
[17:27:24] <pcw_home> The mill must have had the contactor to begin with
[17:27:47] <zeeshan|2> it had a lot of em
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[17:29:57] <zeeshan|2> looks like im going to have to redraw all my power distribution stuff
[17:29:58] <zeeshan|2> :/
[17:30:14] <PetefromTn_> My Cincinatti has estop and limits tied together so all power to drives is killed in either situation. I HIGHLY recommend this setup. I use a limit override to be able to jog the machine off the limit. You really should never hit a limit once the machine is homed out and you have the envelope settings correct.
[17:30:17] <Connor> zeeshan|2: I think I told you this last night.. did I not? :)
[17:30:22] <zeeshan|2> yea
[17:30:25] <zeeshan|2> but istill dont wanna do it
[17:30:27] <zeeshan|2> seems too aggresive
[17:30:35] <zeeshan|2> if shits really going wrong
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[17:30:40] <zeeshan|2> main breaker is right there
[17:31:14] <Connor> Yes, but.. what if your arm is caught in the machine and a friend is over? They know to hit the big red button..
[17:31:25] <PetefromTn_> main breaker is USUALLY on the back of the machine..
[17:31:27] <zeeshan|2> if my arm is caught in the machine
[17:31:29] <zeeshan|2> i deserve to die
[17:31:43] <cradek> PetefromTn_: my vmc has the limit switches directly in the estop loop too. there is a button on the side of the console you have to hold in, to override them
[17:31:57] <PetefromTn_> yes that is exactly what I have.
[17:32:06] <zeeshan|2> okay look
[17:32:10] <PetefromTn_> I cannot imagine having it any other way
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[17:32:14] <zeeshan|2> so if e-stop REALLY is suipposed to be a situational thing
[17:32:18] <zeeshan|2> why can't i just put a main contactor
[17:32:21] <zeeshan|2> and kill power to the entire machine
[17:32:25] <zeeshan|2> including computer, fans everything
[17:32:30] <zeeshan|2> it'll be just 1 wire then.
[17:32:32] <zeeshan|2> and 1 contactor
[17:32:38] <PetefromTn_> that would suck
[17:32:44] <jdh> pain in the ass
[17:32:45] <Connor> I'm debating on using my stepper enable at all.. I sometimes use the software machine off button.. but.. it currently toggles the stepper enable.. which technically means I should rehome when I power back on.
[17:32:46] <PetefromTn_> you would then lose position and everything
[17:32:49] <cradek> it sucks to lose position on estop
[17:32:56] <cradek> it makes you think twice or four times before hitting it
[17:33:00] <cradek> that's not a benefit to anybody
[17:33:19] <zeeshan|2> can you imagine the amount of arcing you'll get if your spindle is actually consuming 5hp
[17:33:19] <PetefromTn_> my drives actually have two sides to their input power, logic and drive
[17:33:21] <zeeshan|2> and you hit e-stop?
[17:33:29] <PetefromTn_> when I hit estop it is only the drive side that is killed.
[17:33:40] <zeeshan|2> versus just allowing it to coast
[17:33:46] <zeeshan|2> or dc brake
[17:33:52] <PetefromTn_> the logic side remains on and still tracks position
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[17:34:18] <cradek> on estop, the bridgeport actually disconnected the motors from the drives and shorted them with contactors
[17:34:25] <cradek> (that helps it brake)
[17:34:28] <Connor> zeeshan|2: I already told you.. 2 sets.. 1 for the 120v stuff that needs to stay alive during a estop even.. (besides, you don't want to shutdown the PC dirty) and one buss bar set with the contactor in series..
[17:34:31] <PetefromTn_> if it bothers you that much leave the spindle out of the estop chain maybe
[17:34:36] <cradek> beware some drives might explode if you do that, but this was original equipment
[17:34:54] <zeeshan|2> connor it's not as easy.
[17:35:05] <PetefromTn_> that way actual movement is killed but the spindle would coast to a stop.
[17:35:07] <zeeshan|2> the wiring will get messy
[17:35:13] <Connor> zeeshan|2: Do it the right way.. or the easy way..
[17:35:23] <zeeshan|2> if anything i should have a contactor for each servo drive, each motor
[17:35:23] <cradek> zeeshan|2: is this for your use, or for the use of others?
[17:35:27] <zeeshan|2> cradek mine
[17:35:30] <PetefromTn_> then if the spindle motor catches fire or something you would need to run around back and kill the mains.
[17:35:37] <cradek> ah good
[17:35:38] <zeeshan|2> if it was for someone else
[17:35:45] <zeeshan|2> i'd obv kill the power
[17:35:49] <zeeshan|2> and let them deal with a blown up vfd
[17:35:56] <Connor> THEN DO IT RIGHT FOR YOUSELF TOO :)
[17:36:10] <Connor> It's not that much more work..
[17:36:16] <zeeshan|2> its 8 contactors
[17:36:19] <zeeshan|2> which take up space
[17:36:22] <PetefromTn_> I only have two
[17:36:23] <Connor> NO it's not.
[17:36:43] <Connor> It's at most 2
[17:36:52] <Connor> 1 for 3 phase, 1 for 1 phase.
[17:36:52] <zeeshan|2> 1 for the servo drives
[17:36:59] <zeeshan|2> 1 for spindle?
[17:37:02] <Connor> YES!
[17:37:16] <zeeshan|2> theres 5 breakers
[17:37:20] <zeeshan|2> each feeding each servo drive
[17:37:29] <zeeshan|2> how do i use 1 contactor in between the breakers and drives?
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[17:37:39] <zeeshan|2> i'd need a 5 pole breaker
[17:37:44] <zeeshan|2> er 5 pole contactor
[17:37:53] <Connor> You feed the breakers after contactor
[17:38:00] <zeeshan|2> i can't do that
[17:38:03] <Connor> Why ?
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[17:38:22] <zeeshan|2> because i already have a breaker box.
[17:38:32] <zeeshan|2> i'm not buying a new set of din power distribution rails
[17:38:34] <zeeshan|2> and new breakers
[17:38:45] <Connor> Did your old system not have DIN mounted breakers ?
[17:38:59] <Connor> and din mounted contactors ?
[17:39:00] <zeeshan|2> it did for the lubricator and coolanmt pump and hydraulic pump
[17:39:09] <zeeshan|2> yea i have tons of contactors..
[17:39:22] <zeeshan|2> i'm thinking ill just use 2 3 pole contactors
[17:39:22] <Connor> No breaker for the servo's or spindle ?
[17:39:39] <zeeshan|2> Connor: nope
[17:39:41] <zeeshan|2> it was fused
[17:40:00] <zeeshan|2> if use 2 3 pole contactors, that gives me 6 contacts to break
[17:40:14] <zeeshan|2> and then have another contactor just for the spindle vfd
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[17:41:24] <pcw_home> Thats pretty strange wiring, it should be one 2 pole contactor feeding the breakers to the drives
[17:41:38] <Connor> Yup.
[17:41:49] <Connor> He's using a house hold breaker panel
[17:41:58] <zeeshan|2> ^
[17:42:17] <zeeshan|2> and you guys were the ones suggesting
[17:42:20] <zeeshan|2> well not you
[17:42:22] <zeeshan|2> i think it was ssi
[17:42:45] <zeeshan|2> who was suggesting that when i go from 3awg -> distribution -> 14 awg -> breaker -> servo drive
[17:42:56] <zeeshan|2> the distribution to breaker 14 awg wire
[17:42:59] <zeeshan|2> is unprotected
[17:43:10] <zeeshan|2> which was the main reason i got a breaker panel to begin with
[17:43:17] <zeeshan|2> cause the breaker leg attaches directly to the bus
[17:43:19] <Connor> It's inside the panel.. it's protected.
[17:43:37] <pcw_home> its also protected by the 16A fuse in the drive
[17:44:49] <zeeshan|2> okay so i can use the siemens bolt on breakers then
[17:44:53] <zeeshan|2> :P
[17:44:57] <Connor> Duh! :)
[17:45:05] <zeeshan|2> im going to triple check with you guys
[17:45:15] <zeeshan|2> cause this is not something i'm used to doing.
[17:45:20] <zeeshan|2> i've always done it differently
[17:45:24] <Connor> Go look at a industrial CNC panel.. You'll see breakers, concators, din mounted fuses etc all in the same enclosure.
[17:45:31] <zeeshan|2> Connor: i know
[17:45:40] <zeeshan|2> i worked with EE's doing mech eng design for em
[17:45:50] <zeeshan|2> i just got thrown off by that breaker to distribution wire thing
[17:47:15] <Connor> Depending on how your contactors are.. you may be able to break off and go direct from them into the servo breakers instead of using a DIN block as a buss..
[17:47:27] <Connor> but, using a buss is preferred method.
[17:49:43] <recon_lap> hi, I'm using Visolate to create some g-code for a PCB, traces going ok, but I'm wondering how to get the g-code for drilling the holes?
[17:53:14] <Rab> recon_lap, which EDA software did you use for authoring the PCB?
[17:54:01] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/5efKSf4.png
[17:54:02] <zeeshan|2> okay
[17:54:06] <zeeshan|2> triple check time
[17:54:26] <zeeshan|2> the wires in circled in pink (yes i know PINK!)
[17:54:28] <recon_lap> Rab: the gbr file is being generated from Eagle of thats what you asking
[17:54:33] <Rab> recon_lap, yah
[17:54:34] <zeeshan|2> will they not go on fire
[17:54:42] <zeeshan|2> if they short on the chassis
[17:54:50] <zeeshan|2> cause the upstream breaker is 100a..
[17:55:06] <zeeshan|2> the only way it wouldnt go on fire is if it was 3awg..
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[17:57:26] <Rab> recon_lap, try this: http://eng-serve.com/cnc/excellon_gcode.html
[17:58:32] <recon_lap> Rab: thx, I'll give that a try, any other links? very new to this, first PCB and first CNC
[17:59:16] <Rab> recon_lap, I'm new as well. I hear FlatCAM can do drilling as well as milling: http://flatcam.org/
[18:01:23] <recon_lap> Rab: flatcam looks better than visolate , I'll defiantly give that a look.
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[18:02:55] <zeeshan|2> the experts dissapeared :{
[18:03:37] <Connor> Why would they short on the chassis ?
[18:03:45] <Connor> Are you not going to have them inside wire duct ?
[18:03:59] <zeeshan|2> a mouse comes in the control cabinet
[18:04:03] <zeeshan|2> and chews on the wire :P
[18:05:01] <zeeshan|2> depending on space
[18:05:06] <recon_lap> damn, flatCAM is windows warze
[18:05:08] <zeeshan|2> i might use wire duct or zip tie mounts
[18:05:23] <Connor> The length of that wire is going to be what.. 1 foot max ?
[18:05:32] <zeeshan|2> yea
[18:05:33] <zeeshan|2> at most!
[18:05:49] <zeeshan|2> it'll i guess go from the din terminal block
[18:05:57] <Connor> It may not even be in duct.. may be free hanging into a din block.
[18:06:03] <zeeshan|2> to the breaker
[18:06:05] <zeeshan|2> and then the contactor
[18:06:11] <zeeshan|2> er
[18:06:14] <zeeshan|2> contactor then breaker.
[18:06:25] <recon_lap> hang on, it's python , all is ok
[18:06:52] <Connor> SOURCE --> MAIN BREAKER ---> DIN BUSS BLOCK --> CONTACTOR --> VFD
[18:06:58] <Connor> For the VFD.
[18:07:12] <zeeshan|2> you be missing breaker
[18:07:23] <Connor> sorry.. after the contactor
[18:07:26] <Connor> the vfs
[18:07:29] <Connor> vfd
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[18:08:04] <zeeshan|2> http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electrical/Products/power-distribution-blocks/Images/Terminal%20Blocks/bus-ele-dm20-220.jpg
[18:08:12] <zeeshan|2> i have those style
[18:08:16] <zeeshan|2> are they shorted internally?
[18:08:36] <Connor> I have no idea. You'll have to tone it out.
[18:09:11] <Connor> Mine have a center tap that lets me short them together.. or you can use a buss bar that looks like a comb in the top or bottom terminal lugs.
[18:09:33] <zeeshan|2> im going to need one for L1 and L2
[18:09:40] <zeeshan|2> also i just realized
[18:09:40] <Connor> and netural
[18:09:49] <zeeshan|2> 3 of my vfds get powered off L2
[18:09:53] <zeeshan|2> and 2 get powered of L1
[18:09:55] <zeeshan|2> to balance load
[18:10:00] <zeeshan|2> so i'm going to need 3 contactors regardless
[18:10:21] <Connor> and you can use the DIN rail itself as ground bar if you get ground DIN terminal blocks
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[18:11:00] <Connor> Neutral buss bar will be shared with L1 and L2 loads.
[18:11:09] <zeeshan|2> thats fine
[18:11:09] <Connor> as will earth ground
[18:11:21] <zeeshan|2> no
[18:11:28] <zeeshan|2> neutral bus bar and ground bar are seperate
[18:11:36] <zeeshan|2> they can only be bonded @ the main panel
[18:11:37] <Connor> That's not what I said.
[18:11:42] <Connor> I know that.
[18:11:55] <Connor> The DIN rail itself will be earth ground.
[18:12:10] <zeeshan|2> whats wrong with having a real ground block
[18:12:13] <zeeshan|2> :P
[18:12:23] <Connor> That is a real ground block.
[18:12:31] <zeeshan|2> yea but where are the terminals
[18:12:48] <zeeshan|2> i guess you can get terminal blocks
[18:12:50] <zeeshan|2> that short to the din rail?
[18:12:54] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Connectwell-CGT4U-Ground-Connector-Terminal-Blocks-NEW-DIN-Rail-/251679959700?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a994b6a94
[18:13:00] <Connor> Yup. Like that.
[18:13:01] <zeeshan|2> gotcha!
[18:13:10] <zeeshan|2> okay well
[18:13:14] <Connor> I have 5 setting here with me on the desk.
[18:13:14] <zeeshan|2> this way the setup is going to look a lot cleaner
[18:13:23] <zeeshan|2> but im still going to have a seperate button called
[18:13:23] <Connor> Duh! :)
[18:13:24] <zeeshan|2> "STOP"
[18:13:27] <zeeshan|2> not E-stop
[18:13:42] <zeeshan|2> stop when enabled will tell cnc to shut off power to servo drives
[18:13:44] <Connor> That's fine. you should have a Machine Power button.
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[18:13:45] <zeeshan|2> and send a fault over modbus
[18:13:57] <Connor> it's not stop.. it's MACHINE POWER
[18:14:05] <zeeshan|2> call it whatever!
[18:14:08] <zeeshan|2> its my stop button!
[18:14:13] <zeeshan|2> if im about to detect a spindle crash
[18:14:14] <zeeshan|2> i press it!
[18:14:17] <Connor> It doesn't kill power to anything. it just disables the drivers and the spindle.
[18:14:24] <Connor> but in a non-failsafe way.
[18:14:33] <Connor> and in a way that makes it so you don't have to rehome
[18:14:39] <zeeshan|2> yes
[18:14:45] <zeeshan|2> so you press the machine power buttoin
[18:14:46] <zeeshan|2> if it fails
[18:14:48] <zeeshan|2> you press e-stop
[18:14:59] <Connor> In fact.. LinuxCNC has a software button just for that..
[18:15:15] <pcw_home> linuxcnc must be able to enable and disable the drives
[18:15:23] <Connor> Right.
[18:15:24] <zeeshan|2> i';m going to definitely going to go back and redo my lathe stuff
[18:15:30] <zeeshan|2> cause it's definitely not fail safe
[18:15:34] <zeeshan|2> and i'm sending the bill to you connor
[18:15:39] <zeeshan|2> when my vfd blows up on first e-stop
[18:15:41] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[18:17:31] <Connor> Why would you vfd blow on estop ?
[18:17:40] <zeeshan|2> sudden discharge of caps
[18:17:41] <zeeshan|2> :P
[18:17:57] <Connor> You need to make sure your LOGIC PSU to it isn't on the contactor side of the power distro
[18:18:16] <Connor> logic PSU needs to be on as soon as main break is active.
[18:18:24] <zeeshan|2> huh
[18:18:47] <Connor> Does your VFD not have a logic power input ?
[18:18:47] <zeeshan|2> vfd takes l1 and l2
[18:18:53] <zeeshan|2> thers no logic power input
[18:19:03] <Connor> You sure?
[18:19:56] <Connor> What's the model # of the VFD ?
[18:20:13] <zeeshan|2> im uploading the diagrams
[18:21:22] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/uVBqD3f.png
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[18:21:24] <zeeshan|2> vfd 1
[18:21:29] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/GNb8lGd.png vfd2
[18:21:57] <zeeshan|2> er
[18:22:05] <zeeshan|2> the sumitomo has seperate power for control circuit
[18:22:15] <Connor> http://i.imgur.com/GNb8lGd.png that one.. has control power.
[18:22:15] <zeeshan|2> but the eaton doesnt
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[18:22:54] <Connor> Is that a 1 phase or 3 phase input ?
[18:22:56] <Connor> or both ?
[18:23:46] <zeeshan|2> both can do 1 phase input
[18:24:08] <Connor> okay. The one you want to keep logic or control power on is the spindle VFD.
[18:24:22] <Connor> The other is what, hydro or coolant ?
[18:24:41] <PetefromTn_> you might be better off just setting up a physical button for the servo enable in linuxcnc that controls enables to your drives and have another one for servo DIS able somehow. Instead of another entire circuit just for your feel good stop button....
[18:24:59] <zeeshan|2> hydro and coolant
[18:25:02] <zeeshan|2> 2 sep vfds for that
[18:25:07] <zeeshan|2> i dont think they need to be in the e-stop loop
[18:25:12] <Connor> okay.. Those will be fine.
[18:25:19] <Connor> Yes, they need to be in estop.
[18:25:25] <zeeshan|2> why
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[18:25:30] <zeeshan|2> coolant is going to cut my hand?
[18:25:32] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[18:25:35] <Connor> what happens if your pump busts a hose..
[18:25:43] <zeeshan|2> coolant goes everywhere
[18:25:46] <zeeshan|2> thats ok
[18:25:57] <Connor> Just put them in the e-stop.
[18:26:00] <zeeshan|2> :)
[18:26:02] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: What if it splashes in your eyes?
[18:26:07] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: i melt
[18:26:17] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: we can only wish.
[18:26:53] <PetefromTn_> :D
[18:27:07] <Connor> The ONLY THING that's shouldn't be on estop is the following: Computer, 7i77 field voltage, Lamps, control power for VFD, 24v PSU
[18:27:37] <zeeshan|2> 5v psu too
[18:27:48] <Connor> If it's turning a motor or a actuator, it needs to be on estop.
[18:27:56] <Computer_Barf1> Connor have you put much thought into a 4th axis for G0704?
[18:28:01] <Connor> yes, 5v PSU would be some sort of logic PSU
[18:28:17] <PetefromTn_> yeah he did its at my house LOL
[18:28:17] <Connor> Computer_Barf1: Tons. But no action as of yet.
[18:28:28] <zeeshan|2> this is weird
[18:28:34] <zeeshan|2> this manual doesnt tell me how much draw the control side takes
[18:28:36] <zeeshan|2> on the vfd
[18:28:47] <Connor> Well.. yea.. the little manual rotary table..
[18:28:57] <Connor> zeeshan|2: It's low current.
[18:29:04] <PetefromTn_> little is a good description ;)
[18:29:04] <Connor> don't even put it on a breaker.
[18:29:23] <zeeshan|2> well i need to protect the wire
[18:29:25] <zeeshan|2> that goes to it
[18:29:31] <Connor> Then fuse it.
[18:29:34] <Computer_Barf1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-Kdud7eiA
[18:29:40] <zeeshan|2> unless this thing has an internal fuse
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[18:30:07] <Connor> Computer_Barf1: Very similar to what I want to build.
[18:30:25] <PetefromTn_> then why the hell did you buy this little rotab?
[18:30:26] <Connor> I love the wifes comments. :)
[18:30:33] <Computer_Barf1> yeah lol thats funny
[18:30:35] <Connor> PetefromTn_: It was GIVEN to me. :)
[18:30:47] <Computer_Barf1> i wonder if you can put the tools on the side of the head like that
[18:31:50] <PetefromTn_> LOL My wife would be like.......Wow that's nice honey.... now leave me alone and go play with your toys in the shop hehe
[18:32:15] <Computer_Barf1> she knew what a lathe was
[18:32:20] <Connor> Sending my wife the link to it.. telling her that's the appropriate response to demos.
[18:32:31] <Connor> She knew about the flats too.
[18:32:32] <Computer_Barf1> you know how many times ive tried to explain a lathe to my wife
[18:32:59] <PetefromTn_> oh my wife knows what all of that stuff is....she just doesn't give a shit hehe
[18:33:08] <zeeshan|2> same with my gf :{
[18:33:12] <zeeshan|2> she helps me move stuff
[18:33:15] <zeeshan|2> and helps in the garage
[18:33:22] <zeeshan|2> but runs away asap the help is finished haha
[18:34:04] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[18:34:05] <PetefromTn_> I gotta say last weekend my wife helped me clean my ENTIRE SHOP!! I mean every little corner and organize stuff. We found shit I forgot I had hehe
[18:34:10] <Computer_Barf1> Connor: are you going to buy a spindel or make one?
[18:34:35] <Connor> Computer_Barf1: I'm going to get a 5C collet index and use it as the spindle and build the rest.
[18:34:43] <zeeshan|2> connor think its internally fused?
[18:34:45] <zeeshan|2> cause when i read the manual
[18:34:51] <Computer_Barf1> I was thinking maybe you would machine two steady rests, then put on temporary pully , thing grind it round,
[18:34:56] <zeeshan|2> it says "please contact r1 and ... before the contactor"
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[18:41:58] <jdh> but it will be 45f in the morning when I get on the boat. That will be pretty damned chilly with the wind.
[18:42:01] <CaptHindsight> lows in the teens and snow, this winter might be like last one
[18:42:27] <jdh> we had a few days sub-20 last Dec. That is pretty freakishly cold for here.
[18:42:42] <jdh> but it's ok, obama will save us!
[18:44:33] <Computer_Barf1> they want it less warm. I mean less change. No more change.
[18:45:22] <Computer_Barf1> Im sure now that the republicans are in charge, everything will be fine. LOL.
[18:46:03] <PetefromTn_> we saw negative temps last year for the first time since I lived here.
[18:46:23] <PetefromTn_> Before that in 15 years of being in tennessee the lowest temp I ever saw was 9 degrees.
[18:46:52] <PetefromTn_> either way pretty freakin' cold especially for someone who grew up in South Florida.
[18:47:11] <Computer_Barf1> All the joy I felt from seeing all the democrats was pretty well ruined by having to accept that they would be replaced by republicans.
[18:47:35] <Computer_Barf1> * by the democrats getting voted out
[18:48:08] <PetefromTn_> Meh they are all freakin' crooks with their own interests at heart. If they are not that way when they get in there they soon will be it is a vicious cycle
[18:49:22] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I'm really aggravated with Amendment 1 and 2 passing.. BADLY worded.. basically TN looses the right to VOTE on new judges..
[18:49:46] <Connor> and they opened the door to more abortion regulations..
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[18:51:00] <Computer_Barf1> im not pro life but
[18:51:15] <Computer_Barf1> isn't TN pretty proximate to a whole number of states
[18:51:52] <Computer_Barf1> i mean worst case there will likely always be somewhere you can get it
[18:52:14] <Computer_Barf1> that's how i felt about that whole hobby lobby drama
[18:52:16] <PetefromTn_> like I said.....CROOKS!!
[18:52:40] <Computer_Barf1> i mean like there is a CVS usually right accross the street from hobby lobby
[18:53:00] <Connor> What about Hobby Lobby ?
[18:53:01] <cradek> Computer_Barf1: sure unless you're poor, right? who cares about them.
[18:53:39] <cradek> Computer_Barf1: there's always another country you can travel to for health care too, right? who cares.
[18:53:53] <Computer_Barf1> i don't really feel alot when people make access arguments. I don't think the government should be making decisions on any of this stuff anyway though.
[18:54:33] <Computer_Barf1> Well being poor has obvious solutions. The state can't derisk life for you.
[18:55:05] <cradek> heh yep, go back in time and be born in the right place with the right opportunities and the right skin color, like I was
[18:55:06] <Computer_Barf1> We already know of far more effective ways to solve poverty than to get government involved.
[18:55:57] <jdh> Pete: I saw sub-zero pretty much every year I was in .tn.us
[18:56:00] <PetefromTn_> If you got a way let me know LOL I might need it if I can't get this shop rolling heh
[18:56:06] <Computer_Barf1> No the means im talking about help anyone willing. Everyone has been lifted for several centuries by what I am alluding to.
[18:56:34] <PetefromTn_> really I have never seen below 9 degrees before last year...
[18:57:01] <PetefromTn_> I am talking WITHOUT wind chill here actual temp
[18:57:11] <Computer_Barf1> It wasn't that long ago when kings couldn't access toilet paper. People take for granted the amazing wealth we have today, even the poor. Consider what goes into making a simple number 2 pencil.
[18:57:39] <PetefromTn_> when the damn wind is blowing all bets are off...
[18:58:02] <Connor> ANYWAY... moving AWAY from Politics and Religion etc.. and back to LInuxCNC, CNC stuff and machining.. :)
[18:58:45] <Computer_Barf1> I find the whole don't talk about politics or religoin meme to be quite the stopthink
[18:58:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/B1rXRL2CUAACGTr.jpg
[18:59:14] <PetefromTn_> thats the problem talking politics and religion IS a stop think..
[18:59:15] <Computer_Barf1> we're making stuff right? the value of production is related.
[18:59:32] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: did you buy those nema34 ac servos from China?
[18:59:35] <Computer_Barf1> well my position isn't political
[18:59:42] <Computer_Barf1> and i didn't bring up religion
[18:59:50] <pcw_home> all positions are political
[19:00:02] <Computer_Barf1> then we can't stop talking about it then
[19:00:10] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Well that depends on how you view it.
[19:00:11] <Computer_Barf1> its inevitable.
[19:00:13] <Computer_Barf1> lol
[19:00:34] <pcw_home> Yes you can take it to an appropriate channel
[19:00:37] <Computer_Barf1> I generally consider my position to be antipolitical though.
[19:00:40] <PetefromTn_> I bought my servos and drives from Machmotion, they are made in China, so In a way yeah...
[19:00:52] <CaptHindsight> heh, ok
[19:01:00] <PetefromTn_> if you are asking me about the ones I posted the other day
[19:01:06] <PetefromTn_> I have not bought them
[19:01:19] <PetefromTn_> still trying to decide what motors and drives I want to put on the new Lathe
[19:01:39] <PetefromTn_> oh wait you said NEMA 34
[19:01:40] <Computer_Barf1> do a big servomotor , and tell me exactly what you end up getting
[19:01:41] <PetefromTn_> I missed that
[19:01:50] <CaptHindsight> http://machmotion.com/cnc-products/drives-motors/teco-servo-drives-and-motors.html
[19:01:54] <PetefromTn_> have not bought motors and drives yet.
[19:02:08] <PetefromTn_> Computer_Barf1 Already did on the Cincinatti
[19:02:30] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Yeah that is what I have on the Cincinatti
[19:02:33] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: those nema34 on ebay you posted were really low cost
[19:02:52] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know and they were in all likelihood made in the same factory that makes the tecos I have
[19:03:05] <CaptHindsight> just no warranty
[19:03:25] <PetefromTn_> There are like four or five major manufacturers of this stuff in China as I understand it.
[19:03:30] <Computer_Barf1> is there a used market for these techo motors?
[19:03:34] <PetefromTn_> no warrantee for the ebay ones?
[19:04:07] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: going to cost 1/2 the price of the motor and drive to ship them back
[19:04:08] <Computer_Barf1> yeah the 3000w one is 3 phase.. Thats deal breaker for me.
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[19:04:19] <PetefromTn_> Not sure about warrantees in general for this kind of stuff.
[19:04:32] <PetefromTn_> They can basically say you screwed it up installing it no matter what happened
[19:05:01] <PetefromTn_> the good news is they are cheap enough that you just have some cash on hand and buy another one.
[19:05:16] <PetefromTn_> my problem is I almost never have any cash on hand LOL
[19:05:23] <Computer_Barf1> CaptHindsight: what size did you go with and was it single phase? I don't see myself getting a dedicated shop just so i can have 3 phase
[19:05:55] <PetefromTn_> The entire retrofit on my 1997 cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC runs on single phase input power
[19:06:04] <PetefromTn_> I run it off a 60 amp breaker
[19:06:19] <PetefromTn_> have never even felt the cables warm and never tripped the breaker yet.
[19:06:22] -!- asdfasd has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[19:06:31] <Computer_Barf1> which one of the techo's is it?
[19:06:39] <skunkworks_> you're not using it hard enough!
[19:06:41] <skunkworks_> ;)
[19:06:47] <Computer_Barf1> how many watts
[19:06:49] <PetefromTn_> probably :D
[19:07:08] <PetefromTn_> The X and Y are the 1kw 2000 RPM motors I think.
[19:07:15] <PetefromTn_> The Z is different
[19:07:33] <PetefromTn_> they are direct drive with couplers
[19:07:41] <PetefromTn_> the same way the original control was.
[19:07:41] <Computer_Barf1> oh i was talking about spindle servos
[19:07:57] <PetefromTn_> my spindle is not a servomotor
[19:08:05] <PetefromTn_> well not really
[19:08:09] <Computer_Barf1> i mean, having a servo drive the spindle , to be clear
[19:08:56] <PetefromTn_> it is a 7.5HP three phase induction motor and I run it with a Hitachi WJ200-110lf sensorless vector drive from Drives warehouse.
[19:09:24] <Computer_Barf1> can you do indexing with such a thing?
[19:09:24] <PetefromTn_> or rather 7.5KW
[19:09:30] <PetefromTn_> working on it LOL
[19:09:44] <Computer_Barf1> you would need like a encoder added?
[19:09:46] <PetefromTn_> it worked that way before with the original control
[19:09:51] <PetefromTn_> already did that.
[19:09:56] <PetefromTn_> I have working rigid tapping now
[19:10:12] <ds3> how many precentage of the taps break? :D
[19:10:13] <PetefromTn_> just not gotten the spindle to orient yet for toolchanger
[19:10:21] <PetefromTn_> none so far
[19:10:31] <ds3> what's the smallest you've used so far?
[19:10:43] <PetefromTn_> but I just got it working and have not done too much rigid tapping.
[19:11:28] <Computer_Barf1> that sounds nice but unfortunantly I can't accomidate the 3 phase
[19:12:04] <PetefromTn_> did you not read what I said.
[19:12:11] <PetefromTn_> I don't have three phase either
[19:12:41] <Computer_Barf1> ahh three phase induction
[19:12:52] <Computer_Barf1> so the driver is single phase
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[19:13:24] <PetefromTn_> no actually the driver is three phase but you derate it by half so I bought a 15 HP drive and run it on single phase input
[19:13:51] <PetefromTn_> works fine so far and this has been done many many times so it is nothing new.
[19:13:52] <zeeshan|2> that muusta cost you like 1400$!
[19:14:01] <PetefromTn_> what?
[19:14:04] <zeeshan|2> the vfd
[19:14:12] <PetefromTn_> I think it was around $1k
[19:14:16] <zeeshan|2> $$
[19:14:53] <Computer_Barf1> I didn't know that it was an option to buy a three phase driver and only partially power the motor
[19:15:02] <PetefromTn_> actually now it is $837.00 plus shipping.
[19:15:19] <PetefromTn_> you are not partially powering anything.
[19:15:39] <PetefromTn_> the motor gets what it needs and runs normally.
[19:15:57] <Computer_Barf1> in that case I don't understand. what do you mean by "derate"
[19:16:08] <PetefromTn_> the difference is in the starting and stopping it takes a larger drive to accept the back surge
[19:16:18] <PetefromTn_> I am not an electronics expert
[19:16:32] <PetefromTn_> but all I know is I put a 15hp three phase drive in the machine.
[19:16:40] <PetefromTn_> wired 230v single phase into it
[19:16:47] <PetefromTn_> and changed some settings and it works
[19:17:04] <Computer_Barf1> can you link the driver and motor you are using?
[19:17:20] <PetefromTn_> http://driveswarehouse.com/p-2537-wj200-110lf.aspx
[19:17:25] <Computer_Barf1> i just assumed no 3 phase in my house = screwed
[19:17:47] <PetefromTn_> The motor is the original spindle motor from Cincinatti/Emerson control Techniques that came in the machine.
[19:18:09] <PetefromTn_> no you only have a problem when you start to get above around 10HP or so from what I gather
[19:18:36] <PetefromTn_> besides even if you did you can always buy a phase perfect or a large quality rotary phase converter.
[19:19:05] -!- amiri_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[19:19:07] <PetefromTn_> it costs some money but it is doable.
[19:19:36] <PetefromTn_> I like the derated method because I only run single phase and don't have to listen to that rotary humming all day long anymore.
[19:19:44] postaL_offline is now known as postaL
[19:20:00] <Computer_Barf1> yeah i have seen the rotary option and assumed it was probably annoying
[19:20:21] <PetefromTn_> I guess you could put it outside in a custom enclosure or something
[19:20:28] <Computer_Barf1> didn't realize there was a digital option
[19:20:51] <PetefromTn_> yeah phase perfect units are probably the best option for a commercial machine but they are quite expensive
[19:20:57] <pcw_home> the rotary converter option may make sense if you have a3 phase power for existing servo drives
[19:21:18] <PetefromTn_> if you intend to retrofit the machine you can do it how you want.
[19:21:39] <PetefromTn_> some rotary converters are not that great for CNC controls.
[19:21:41] <Computer_Barf1> i wouldn't be retrofitting anything. Building.
[19:22:28] <PetefromTn_> the power output is not smooth enough and they have the high leg issue apparently to deal with.
[19:22:49] <Computer_Barf1> I had focused on servo's though. Indexing was an important part and VDF's didn't seem appropriate to what i was thinking of.
[19:23:17] <PetefromTn_> lots of folks run commercial machining and turning centers in their garages off phase perfects and rotary phase converters tho so it is nothing new
[19:23:52] <PetefromTn_> Well I gotta go pick up my kids from school here soon. BBL
[19:23:58] <Computer_Barf1> k
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[19:32:42] <zeeshan|2> connor
[19:32:43] <zeeshan|2> alive? :D
[19:33:03] <Connor> yes ?
[19:33:50] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/BqSrWtx.png
[19:33:51] <zeeshan|2> HAPPY?
[19:33:55] <zeeshan|2> with my e-stop?!?!!
[19:34:01] <Connor> on phone.. give me a few to look
[19:34:08] <Connor> training customer on using Joomla
[19:35:27] <zeeshan|2> ignore that one
[19:35:49] <jdh> ok.
[19:37:37] <renesis> i wish you would figure out how to export the diagram the shit is all cut off on the right
[19:37:43] <zeeshan|2> i will
[19:38:02] <zeeshan|2> actually lemme see if i can figure ito ut
[19:38:24] <renesis> save as png works in everything youre probably hitting cancel instead of okay
[19:38:29] <renesis> =)
[19:39:15] <Rab> Or "viewable area" vs "document".
[19:39:18] <renesis> you maybe have to hit up page format and print scaling dialogs and print preview first
[19:39:22] <renesis> right
[19:40:50] <renesis> rab: currently hes just screen shooting, im hoping export does better at the text labels
[19:41:05] <renesis> bad enouogh the shit is sideways
[19:42:42] <Rab> This is AutoCAD?
[19:43:03] <zeeshan|2> talking to me?
[19:43:06] <renesis> why are your coils in series?
[19:43:12] <Rab> zeeshan|2, affirmative.
[19:43:13] <renesis> rab: think so
[19:43:19] <zeeshan|2> renesis: normally closed
[19:43:20] <zeeshan|2> rab yes
[19:43:46] <renesis> are they 5V coils?
[19:43:49] <zeeshan|2> 24v
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[19:44:07] <renesis> the coils?
[19:44:15] <renesis> i dont your shit is going to work then
[19:44:23] <renesis> a) connected to 5v supply
[19:44:30] <zeeshan|2> whoops
[19:44:31] <zeeshan|2> hahah
[19:44:33] <zeeshan|2> thats an accident
[19:44:44] <renesis> b) in series so theyre either going to 2.5v or 12v each
[19:44:49] <renesis> depending how you want to fuck this up
[19:45:07] <renesis> put them in parallel after the estop
[19:45:20] <renesis> the parallel coils should be in series with the estop
[19:45:35] <zeeshan|2> i dont know wha ti was smoking
[19:45:40] <zeeshan|2> when i put them on5v
[19:45:40] <zeeshan|2> haha
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[19:46:11] <renesis> hopefully weed if smoking cigs does that to you i think you are going to have problems in social situations
[19:46:41] <zeeshan|2> and i dont know why the hell i put them in series
[19:46:42] <zeeshan|2> haha
[19:46:53] <renesis> prettier diagram
[19:48:10] <zeeshan|2> i fixed the diagram
[19:48:12] <zeeshan|2> but wtf
[19:48:16] <zeeshan|2> the output is being a pain
[19:48:36] <renesis> its just scaling wrong?
[19:48:42] <zeeshan|2> yea
[19:48:47] <zeeshan|2> and making some text bolder than others
[19:48:50] <zeeshan|2> and im looking at the layers
[19:48:50] <renesis> have you gone to page setup?
[19:48:53] <renesis> oh
[19:48:58] <renesis> thats prob dpi setting
[19:49:14] <renesis> if you cant set dpi you maybe just need to up resolution or page size
[19:49:51] <renesis> just need to figure out how to put the whole thing in a box and get mad pixels, usually you either set page size or dpi big if you cant set resolution directly
[19:49:56] <Rab> http://autodesk.blogs.com/between_the_lines/2011/02/how-to-create-a-pdf-from-autocad-with-a-single-click.html
[19:50:41] <renesis> i wonder if save to PDF is raster or vector
[19:50:56] <Rab> Surely vector?!
[19:51:25] <renesis> its CAD dude, i dont know what goes down in these design meetings, but im sure its really funny and less than productive most the time
[19:52:17] <Computer_Barf1> what do you guys use for CAD on linux?
[19:52:44] <renesis> i forgot because i gave up and just started using windows again =(
[19:53:12] <Rab> I have LibreCAD installed, but I don't really use it.
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[19:53:32] <renesis> freecad seemed broken but i dont remember what platform i tried it on
[19:53:41] <Rab> It seems reasonable. I just haven't gotten over the UI learning curve yet.
[19:53:49] <renesis> and it might have worked fine just with a UI that didnt do what i expected
[19:53:59] <renesis> there is a 2d package that worked okay but i cant remember the name
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[19:54:30] <Rab> For 2.5D gcode I use Inkscape.
[19:54:33] <renesis> qcad
[19:54:47] <renesis> inkscape is really good, i use that in windows
[19:55:10] <renesis> but qcad was what i used last on linux, prob like 6 or 7 years ago
[19:55:35] <renesis> if its improved at all its prov very usable, it was a decent autocad clone back then
[19:55:54] <zeeshan|2> MAN
[19:55:55] <zeeshan|2> CMON
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[19:56:00] <zeeshan|2> this frigging thing
[19:56:06] <zeeshan|2> i scaled the view port
[19:56:11] <renesis> do you have a pdf printer?
[19:56:14] <zeeshan|2> but the damn crap is still bolding out
[19:56:17] <renesis> like foxit?
[19:56:20] <zeeshan|2> no
[19:56:22] <zeeshan|2> i have cutepdf
[19:56:27] <zeeshan|2> cause its cute
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[19:56:36] <renesis> same shit, just print to a big sheet
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[19:56:57] <renesis> it might be bolding because of scaling issues
[19:57:31] <renesis> landscape, fit to page, do 11x17 at least
[19:58:43] <renesis> anywaym if its readable just post the shit with the bold text
[20:00:38] <zeeshan|2> youre reight
[20:00:41] <zeeshan|2> it was a bloody scaling issue
[20:00:47] -!- moorbo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[20:01:36] <renesis> zeeshan|2: you were saving to image or pdf?
[20:01:46] <zeeshan|2> tried both
[20:01:48] <zeeshan|2> they were both failing
[20:01:51] <renesis> if it was doing that scaling to pdf, its smoking crack
[20:01:54] <renesis> rab: ^'
[20:03:30] <zeeshan|2> why cant i select bigger than 44x34 "
[20:03:31] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:04:38] <renesis> because no one has printers that big
[20:04:42] <zeeshan|2> haha
[20:04:50] <zeeshan|2> im just trying to figure out
[20:04:55] <zeeshan|2> how to change the background color so it's black
[20:04:56] <renesis> if your shit isnt readable at that res you should be doing multiple sheets
[20:05:03] <zeeshan|2> nahh man
[20:05:07] -!- Belerafon [Belerafon!~kvirc@] has parted #linuxcnc
[20:05:09] <zeeshan|2> goal was to make it all in one page
[20:05:14] -!- moorbo [moorbo!~moorbo@dyn-254-13.hrz.uni-kassel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:05:14] <zeeshan|2> i hate going through schematics on different page
[20:05:29] <renesis> fine but that doesnt lend itself well to page export
[20:05:38] <zeeshan|2> yes
[20:05:39] <renesis> which is why i will usually do PNG for bigass diagrams
[20:06:02] <renesis> up the res until the smallest text is legible
[20:06:32] -!- nofxx has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
[20:06:40] -!- shurshur has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[20:06:40] <renesis> but yeah, options attached to png export are pretty random
[20:06:55] <renesis> sometimes there just arent any and the default raster output isnt readable
[20:08:01] <zeeshan|2> http://www.docdroid.net/ksjf/master-wiring-diagram.pdf.html
[20:08:04] <zeeshan|2> thats the best i can make it
[20:08:23] <zeeshan|2> and its reallyu annoying to read
[20:08:29] <zeeshan|2> i need a different backgroudn
[20:08:46] <renesis> man fuck doc droid
[20:08:50] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[20:08:51] <zeeshan|2> why
[20:08:52] <renesis> wtf is this
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[20:09:12] <renesis> well it just crashed the chrome tab for one thing
[20:09:16] <zeeshan|2> ROFL
[20:09:32] <renesis> and it wasnt doing zoom and pan shit how i thought it should first try
[20:10:01] <renesis> yeah its crashing out, just upload the pdf
[20:10:02] <Rab> I just hit View PDF immediately.
[20:10:13] <renesis> you know everyone in the world has a pdf reader, right?
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[20:10:31] <renesis> rab: i dunno my shit is crashing whenever it reloads
[20:11:36] <Rab> http://reboots.g-cipher.net/zeeshan/
[20:11:50] <Rab> zeeshan|2 is gonna need to start paying me hosting fees.
[20:11:52] <renesis> zeeshan|2: dead traces under BE25A20AC
[20:11:59] <renesis> theyre ugly, fix
[20:12:04] <zeeshan|2> rab lol
[20:12:25] <renesis> wtf your enables are tied to each other but nothing else?
[20:12:59] <renesis> rab: yeah next time it loaded i just clicked view quick, chrome view is panning around and zooming 10x faster
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[20:14:08] <zeeshan|2> ignore that portion
[20:14:11] <renesis> zeeshan|2: you just havent hooked the vfd up to the estop circuit?
[20:14:18] <zeeshan|2> renesis: its there
[20:14:19] <renesis> or youre just cutting power now
[20:14:20] <zeeshan|2> the contactor
[20:14:30] <renesis> not visibly
[20:14:42] <zeeshan|2> im mainly showing the power distribution
[20:14:43] <zeeshan|2> and e-stop
[20:15:13] <renesis> is the dead trace supposed to be a connection?
[20:15:18] <zeeshan|2> for enable?
[20:15:22] <renesis> so youre just killing power instead of diabling?
[20:15:27] <zeeshan|2> yea
[20:15:28] <renesis> do they brake or spool down?
[20:15:29] <zeeshan|2> killing power
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[20:15:44] <zeeshan|2> coast
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[20:16:12] <renesis> what do they do when you disable them
[20:16:23] <zeeshan|2> coast :P
[20:16:32] <renesis> okay so not a ton diff
[20:16:39] <renesis> is there a brake option?
[20:16:45] <zeeshan|2> no
[20:16:57] <zeeshan|2> not that i saw in the amc manual
[20:17:02] <renesis> could bridge the motor with a resistor
[20:17:31] <renesis> anyway, thats better than the modbus hack
[20:17:48] <renesis> or soft stopping them
[20:17:56] <zeeshan|2> so basically its 2 circuits
[20:18:00] <zeeshan|2> 2 methods i mean
[20:18:06] <zeeshan|2> 1. e-stop -> rough (i dont ever want to use it)
[20:18:11] <zeeshan|2> 2. machine power through console
[20:18:14] <zeeshan|2> which is the one ill use more often
[20:18:19] <zeeshan|2> if i detect a crash
[20:18:24] <renesis> what happens when you soft estop?
[20:18:39] <renesis> hit the estop button in linux cnc
[20:18:43] <zeeshan|2> itll disable drives and send stop or fault command to all vfds
[20:18:56] <zeeshan|2> overmodbus
[20:19:14] <renesis> seems fine
[20:19:47] <renesis> adding brake to the spindle motor prob not a bad idea
[20:20:04] <renesis> get a bigass 1R heatsink resistor or something
[20:21:00] <jdh> get a big lightbulb
[20:21:21] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:21:24] <zeeshan|2> thats not a bad idea
[20:21:31] <zeeshan|2> hook it up to like a 100 light bulbs
[20:21:33] <zeeshan|2> see what happerns
[20:21:36] <renesis> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/D100K1R0E/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvNd0dY0Kymzlh5M08j0lnOBZgnM6c2k24%3d
[20:21:49] <zeeshan|2> renesis: that aint gonna work
[20:21:50] <renesis> adjustable
[20:22:02] <renesis> zeeshan|2: why not
[20:23:30] <renesis> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/HS100J1R0E/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvNd0dY0KymzgD%2fS%2fJEz4CLEoKQb1d2Obg%3d
[20:23:31] <zeeshan|2> it specifies 2.5 ohm
[20:23:33] <zeeshan|2> 750W
[20:23:36] <renesis> maybe you like them in this style better?
[20:23:38] <zeeshan|2> er
[20:23:41] <renesis> okay so use that
[20:23:44] <zeeshan|2> 10 ohm 750W
[20:23:50] <renesis> okay, than use that
[20:23:59] <zeeshan|2> i like the lightbulb idea
[20:24:00] <renesis> then, whatever urmom
[20:24:23] <renesis> i like the idea of high dissipation loads means to do shit like this
[20:24:31] <renesis> who has lightbulbs anymore, anyway
[20:24:52] <renesis> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/TE750B10RJ/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiuoHBX7fD8Mv0g5pyylaQ8bSFNlsIl4gI%3d
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[20:26:09] <Rab> Or just dumpster-dive an elevator service company.
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[20:27:02] <renesis> walk into an audio engineering lab with a gun and they might give their loads up
[20:30:07] <PetefromTn_> Trying to figure out what size frame motor I need to look for on this CNC lathe build here
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[20:30:45] <PetefromTn_> the large mounting plate has a nice circular machined hole that is 180.67 MM across
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[20:31:49] <zeeshan|2> C frame
[20:31:58] <zeeshan|2> you mean servos?
[20:32:23] <PetefromTn_> the bolt pattern is 152 MM across
[20:32:34] <PetefromTn_> er rather in a square
[20:33:04] <PetefromTn_> Spindle motor
[20:36:25] <PetefromTn_> http://www.motorsanddrives.com/cowern/motorterms2_chart.html
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[20:39:47] <PetefromTn_> I am sure it is a face mount motor
[20:40:12] <PetefromTn_> the motor mounting plate has a large circular opening with four holes on a slotted plate for belt adjustment
[20:40:49] <PetefromTn_> the hole is 180mm basically and the four bolts are like I said 152mm apart along each side of the square pattern
[20:40:53] <zeeshan|2> if its got a circle
[20:40:55] <zeeshan|2> and face mount
[20:41:02] <zeeshan|2> they call it "c-frame"
[20:41:08] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know that
[20:44:23] <Connor> zeeshan|2: OKay. A few things about your e-stop circuit.
[20:44:33] <Connor> First.. what are the contactor coil voltages ?
[20:44:35] <zeeshan|2> connor
[20:44:38] <zeeshan|2> which diagram
[20:44:41] <zeeshan|2> its been updated a few times :P
[20:44:44] <Connor> http://www.docdroid.net/ksjf/master-wiring-diagram.pdf.html
[20:44:47] <zeeshan|2> ok
[20:45:06] <zeeshan|2> 24vdc
[20:45:17] <Connor> okay.
[20:45:36] <Connor> What you Don't have in the mix.. is ability for LinuxCNC to trip estop on watchdog.
[20:45:53] <zeeshan|2> i dont want it to
[20:46:13] <zeeshan|2> i want to send fault over modbus and disable
[20:46:17] <zeeshan|2> in that scenario
[20:46:19] <PetefromTn_> Whats funny is the C frame motors or rather all motors seem to have the AJ dimension at 5.875" my bolt spacing is 6"
[20:46:24] <Connor> WHY ?
[20:46:32] <Connor> and what does that do for your servo's ?
[20:46:38] <zeeshan|2> it disables them.
[20:47:01] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: time to build an adapter :P
[20:47:07] <zeeshan|2> luckily you have a cnc mill!
[20:47:31] <PetefromTn_> no thanks there was a motor in there that fit gotta find it.
[20:47:55] <zeeshan|2> have fun!
[20:48:28] <zeeshan|2> connor linuxcnc has access to the disable pin
[20:48:35] <zeeshan|2> for each servo drive
[20:49:51] <zeeshan|2> connor yesterday you said
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[20:50:01] <zeeshan|2> ref+ -> aoutx ?
[20:50:08] <zeeshan|2> and ref- goes to signal ground on servo drive?
[20:50:11] <Connor> I'm going to say this one last time. Inhibt, Disable etc.. Isn't Fail safe.
[20:50:18] <Connor> zeeshan|2: I think so.
[20:50:23] <zeeshan|2> watchdog failure
[20:50:28] <zeeshan|2> isn't a big deal
[20:50:43] <zeeshan|2> it means you have some transmission isue
[20:50:44] <Connor> You want to go into FULL estop on a PC Feeze up.
[20:51:00] <Connor> Not talking the VFD, I'm talking the 7i77 watchdog.
[20:51:15] <Connor> and technically, yes.. the VFD.
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[20:52:20] <Connor> You want a your estop to include the charge-pump/watchdog in it's loop.. and if it all possible add a latching setup so that you have to push a external button to start back up from a estop event.
[20:52:21] <zeeshan|2> so basically youre saying i need to put coil 1 and coil 2 and a pin on the 7i77
[20:52:23] <zeeshan|2> in parallel
[20:52:31] <pcw_home> drives will be disabled in that case, so E-Stop is not necessarily needed
[20:52:46] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: okay sweet
[20:53:18] <pcw_home> E-Stop is the if all else fails/always works stop
[20:53:36] <zeeshan|2> did you see my diagram?
[20:53:42] <zeeshan|2> im cutting power to vfds and servo drives
[20:53:45] <zeeshan|2> with just a e-stop switch
[20:53:47] <zeeshan|2> nothing else
[20:53:51] <Connor> at least add a latching setup and be sure to tie the estop into a input pin on the 7i77 so linuxcnc knows it's in estop
[20:53:55] <zeeshan|2> is that adequate enough
[20:54:10] <zeeshan|2> connor good point
[20:54:50] <Connor> What I mean by latching... is.. I have a relay setup so, that the coil loops through a NO contact.
[20:55:05] <Connor> You press a button to temp short the NO contact.. and the relay latches..
[20:55:35] <Connor> the other coil is part of the estop chain.
[20:56:00] <pcw_home> thats jymmms cue to do his safety relay spiel
[20:56:04] <Connor> if estop event happens... the relay goes into NO condition.. and taking the Estop out of estop doesn't resume.. you press the button to resume.
[20:56:05] <PetefromTn_> http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s83/matospeter/IMAG0202_zpswkmpi2qz.jpg
[20:56:36] <zeeshan|2> that plate looks seasy to modify
[20:56:38] <PetefromTn_> that is my lathe's motor mount plate
[20:56:42] <zeeshan|2> to be a standard 56 frame c face motor on
[20:56:47] <zeeshan|2> *put
[20:57:24] <PetefromTn_> I should not have to modify it. It had a motor there at one point just need to figure out what size frame it was.
[20:57:32] <zeeshan|2> you're right
[20:57:37] <zeeshan|2> but look at bridgeports for example
[20:57:45] <zeeshan|2> they use a retarded propietry purpose made motor
[20:57:59] <PetefromTn_> I am aware
[20:58:01] <zeeshan|2> impossible to find for cheap in 240vac 3ph
[20:58:13] <PetefromTn_> but this is a simple face mount motor should be a typical motor most likely
[20:58:23] <zeeshan|2> you had that nema chart
[20:58:26] <Tom_itx> i wonder if a bldc motor would work for a spindle motor
[20:58:34] <zeeshan|2> if the dimensions dont match
[20:58:35] <PetefromTn_> http://www.baldor.com/pdf/nema_chart_04.pdf
[20:58:36] <zeeshan|2> its not standard
[20:59:19] <PetefromTn_> there are apparenlty five different C face frame sizes according to that chart
[20:59:28] <PetefromTn_> sorry four
[20:59:53] <PetefromTn_> not sure what BA referrs to
[21:00:50] <zeeshan|2> face to first mounting hole
[21:01:14] <zeeshan|2> shouldnt matter for you
[21:01:34] <PetefromTn_> looks like the AJ dimension is the bolt circle they do not refer to it in a square pattern
[21:01:46] <zeeshan|2> its not a square pattern
[21:01:49] <zeeshan|2> its a bolt circle
[21:02:06] <Jymmm> pcw_home: It would be, even if I pointed out the defect people still won't listen, so I don't bother much anymore.
[21:02:15] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: explain
[21:02:46] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: No, nobody gives a shit are will still not use a safety relay anyway, so way bother?
[21:02:53] <Jymmm> why*
[21:03:21] <zeeshan|2> i dont understand that sentence :P
[21:03:32] <Connor> Jymmm: I've asked, time, and time again, to explain exactly what a safety relay IS, and what it DOES, and how it's different than a standard relay
[21:03:52] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Even if I explained the entire details, nobody cares.
[21:04:22] <Jymmm> Connor: Go do your homeworkif you want to know, it's not easy to explain.
[21:05:20] <Connor> Jymmm: AND That's why I stopped listening to that advice.. If your going to say to use something.. at least give a little info on the subject that something like RTFM
[21:05:32] <zeeshan|2> connor
[21:05:37] <zeeshan|2> why cant i just run a wire directly from my e-stop button
[21:05:41] <zeeshan|2> to one if the input pins on the 7i77
[21:05:44] <PetefromTn_> it looks like the bolt circle is just under 8.5"
[21:05:47] <zeeshan|2> to register an external e-stop call
[21:05:50] <Connor> zeeshan|2: You can.
[21:05:59] <zeeshan|2> so just one wire?
[21:06:01] <Connor> in fact.. that's what I was suggesting.
[21:06:09] <zeeshan|2> you were talking about a relay setup
[21:06:11] <zeeshan|2> i got confused :P
[21:06:20] <Connor> Ahh.. yes.. the latching relay.
[21:06:31] <Connor> is kinda important.. IMHO.
[21:06:51] <Jymmm> Connor: Dude, do your own fucking homework, It's not anyone elses job to wipe your ass. Asking about (lets say) physics and expect someone to explain it to you so you understand it all on irc it pure bullshit.
[21:07:18] <zeeshan|2> holy mean
[21:08:05] <PetefromTn_> That is uncalled for... He is not the only one here who would like to get the information and understand it...
[21:08:07] <Connor> Jymmm: and AGAIN, If your going to tell someone something to use without and reason, specifics, or explanation, don't bother saying anything.
[21:08:14] <Jymmm> No, it's brutally honesty especially after all this time the tone of the responses form Connor liek one is obligated to explain it.
[21:09:01] <Jymmm> Connor: NOBODY has an obligation to do anything, IF you don't like it, ignore it.
[21:09:17] <PetefromTn_> why not just not worry about what connor says and help everyone else to understand your point.
[21:09:52] <Connor> it's equivalent to someone saying.. Use this, and oh, btw RTFM and don't ask me any questions about it... is not very helpful and very rude.
[21:10:06] <zeeshan|2> PCW: vin vfield * 4
[21:10:08] <zeeshan|2> can all be bridged together
[21:10:10] <zeeshan|2> ?
[21:10:31] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Bucause over the years people won't listen to it anyway.
[21:10:32] <Connor> With that.. I'm done talking about $h!t today.
[21:10:46] <zeeshan|2> connor RTFM
[21:10:50] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: RTFM!
[21:10:52] <zeeshan|2> zeeshan|2: RTFM
[21:10:58] <zeeshan|2> im such a noob :/
[21:11:12] <PetefromTn_> whatever I guess
[21:11:27] <PetefromTn_> I am ALWAYS willing to listen to methods of making my damn machines safer...
[21:11:45] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Don't just listen, go do your own research.
[21:12:02] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: educate yourself.
[21:12:08] <PetefromTn_> whatever man
[21:12:30] <Jymmm> It's the whole fish thing, not being spoonfed.
[21:12:49] <zeeshan|2> safety is overrated
[21:12:50] <PetefromTn_> WTF do you think this forum is for then? We are all here to learn
[21:13:00] <zeeshan|2> trip the main breaker
[21:13:03] <zeeshan|2> machine is safe!
[21:13:06] <Jymmm> Again, NOT being spoon fed.
[21:13:27] <PetefromTn_> really? I see folks getting spoon fed here daily it seems...
[21:13:32] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: that is actually don btw
[21:13:36] <Jymmm> done
[21:13:50] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: shunt the main breaker
[21:13:57] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: seriously that's how i'd do it
[21:14:01] <zeeshan|2> its nice and simple
[21:14:21] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: except when brakes need to be enegized.
[21:14:25] <PetefromTn_> when it comes to a real safety issue that apparently you found important enough that PCW commented on how you harp on it all the time I would think it was worth some spoon feeding.
[21:14:37] <zeeshan|2> my brake is nc
[21:14:44] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: ah
[21:15:05] <zeeshan|2> im just killing power to the servo drives and vfd
[21:15:14] <zeeshan|2> which makes sense
[21:15:21] <zeeshan|2> im giving linuxcnc an e-stop signal
[21:15:22] <zeeshan|2> and thats it
[21:15:29] <zeeshan|2> i dont want anymore of these extra relay bs
[21:15:33] <Connor> zeeshan|2: should kill power to the break too.. since it's NC
[21:15:44] <zeeshan|2> connor no
[21:15:55] * Tom_itx hides the soap box
[21:16:07] <PetefromTn_> whose soap box?
[21:16:25] <Connor> NC as in you apply power to it to disengage it right ?
[21:16:34] <zeeshan|2> yea
[21:16:56] <Connor> What happens if you hit estop and you loose power, and the break isn't on ?
[21:17:08] <zeeshan|2> nothing
[21:17:15] <zeeshan|2> z-axis wont fall
[21:17:29] <Connor> if the break ISN'T ON ?
[21:17:34] <Connor> it will fall.
[21:17:40] <zeeshan|2> the brake is always on
[21:17:42] <zeeshan|2> without power
[21:17:45] <zeeshan|2> i dont know how thats possible
[21:17:47] <zeeshan|2> thats how it is
[21:18:05] <Connor> okay.. let me rephrase..
[21:18:20] <Connor> you hit estop.. for what ever reason.. the break has power, and it's not engaged..
[21:18:24] <Connor> what happens ?
[21:18:50] <zeeshan|2> it won't have power.
[21:18:55] <Connor> Why ?
[21:19:18] <pcw_home> The brake should be applied when the drives are disabled
[21:19:42] <PetefromTn_> my drives take care of the braking automatically
[21:19:57] <pcw_home> so only at linuxcnc machine-on should the brake be released
[21:20:46] <Connor> right.. so what happens.. if for some reason.. you have a loose wire.. say.. the wire that tells linuxcnc it's in E-stop..
[21:21:24] <zeeshan|2> my brake
[21:21:25] <Connor> and you hit the estop.. linuxcnc still thinks it has control... and you loose power to the servo.. BOOM
[21:21:26] <zeeshan|2> will be on the same line
[21:21:29] <zeeshan|2> as my e-stop button.
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[21:21:43] <zeeshan|2> actually i dont know wher eit will be yet
[21:21:54] <zeeshan|2> ill just do it th rough 7i77.
[21:21:58] <zeeshan|2> *through
[21:22:09] <zeeshan|2> it'll be an output on the 7i77..
[21:22:16] <Connor> OKay. it needs to be tied to the enables like PCW said. but.. I think the power for it needs to be in the estop loop too..
[21:22:36] <Connor> but, whatever.
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[21:22:47] <Connor> going to get food and take a break from all of this.
[21:22:59] <pcw_home> you will need a relay for the brake (and a contact arc suppressor)
[21:23:23] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: wouldnt it be better to use a SSR?
[21:23:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is how mine is it came with it's own relay and the drive provides the timing
[21:23:49] <pcw_home> SSRs typically dont work with DC
[21:23:52] <zeeshan|2> i honestly dont see anything in the amc drives
[21:24:00] <zeeshan|2> that talks about brake..
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[21:24:14] <PetefromTn_> then you need to get a timing relay
[21:24:19] <PetefromTn_> they make them for this purpose
[21:24:31] <zeeshan|2> how does that work
[21:24:38] <pcw_home> linuxcnc can do the timing
[21:24:42] <PetefromTn_> the old drive on the Cincinatti did not have it internal and the machine had a timing relay for it
[21:24:52] <PetefromTn_> I dunno about that probably
[21:25:15] <zeeshan|2> can i maybe use the 5v "fault" out
[21:25:22] <zeeshan|2> from the servo drive?
[21:25:31] <zeeshan|2> its 0 when enabled
[21:25:34] <zeeshan|2> and 5v when disabled
[21:26:19] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: i think im just going to use an output on the 7i77
[21:26:21] <zeeshan|2> and do it through linuxcnc.
[21:26:27] <zeeshan|2> its the easiest
[21:26:34] <zeeshan|2> and makes the most sense to me
[21:27:49] <PetefromTn_> you can certainly do that but they make like 0-10 or 20 second 24v relays that work for just that purpose
[21:28:11] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: im confused why you need a timing relay?
[21:29:38] <PetefromTn_> there needs to be time between when the brake engages and the drive depowers
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[21:30:36] <PetefromTn_> when I turn off my motors you can hear a little click and then the drive shuts down
[21:30:49] <zeeshan|2> so you want to engage the brake
[21:30:52] <zeeshan|2> before you power down the drive
[21:30:56] <zeeshan|2> like 10-20 seconds before
[21:31:04] <PetefromTn_> that is the relay locking the brake so the head does not fall when the motor power is removed
[21:31:13] <PetefromTn_> no more like 1-2 seconds
[21:31:20] <zeeshan|2> ahh
[21:32:31] <zeeshan|2> PCW: does aout5 go to ref+
[21:32:38] <zeeshan|2> and ref- goes to servo drive signal ground?
[21:33:28] <zeeshan|2> and then signal ground on servo drive goes to "gnd" (for driver 5) on 7i77?
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[21:54:24] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321414537912
[21:54:28] <zeeshan|2> finally found those down angle 15A plugs
[21:54:29] <zeeshan|2> :D
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[22:20:35] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:26:44] <Connor> zeeshan|2: Is that what your servo drives use ?
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[22:42:40] <zeeshan|2> connor yes
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[22:43:49] <Connor> I question the need for breakers on each drive then.. those are not typically used for direct wire application..
[22:43:56] <Connor> Do those drivers have fuses ?
[22:43:59] <zeeshan|2> yes they do
[22:44:16] <zeeshan|2> actually you make a valid point
[22:44:28] <zeeshan|2> i think the reason i put a breaker was
[22:44:29] <zeeshan|2> to protect the wire
[22:44:35] <zeeshan|2> not protect the device
[22:44:47] <Connor> then.. loose them. You don't need them.. more complicated than needed.
[22:44:57] <zeeshan|2> what protects the wire? :)
[22:45:20] <Connor> having the wire sized correctly.. and the fuse in the drive.
[22:45:48] <zeeshan|2> well if you short the feed wire against the case
[22:45:53] <zeeshan|2> the fuse wont trip
[22:45:56] <zeeshan|2> cause its down stream
[22:47:43] <Connor> There it is again.. why would the wire short against the case ?
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[22:48:26] <zeeshan|2> for the reason you thought "you have a loose wire.. say.. the wire that tells linuxcnc it's in E-stop..and you hit the estop.. linuxcnc still thinks it has control... and you loose power to the servo.. BOOM"
[22:49:06] <Connor> That's a control wire.. much smaller and easier to damage, or come loose than say a 12 or 14 gauge power wire. :)
[22:49:19] <zeeshan|2> hehe
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[22:50:54] <zeeshan|2> gotta clean the house :p
[22:50:57] <zeeshan|2> ill work on this later tonight
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[22:53:44] <Jymmm> Anyone have any thoughts on the mech's of making a simple spooler? Very much like a tool hanger, or janiters keychian, but nut not a lot of tension, mostly to take up slack.
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[23:40:41] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: like a wire spooler?
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[23:41:00] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: kinda yeah.
[23:41:15] <zeeshan|2> im assuming you'll have sort of drum?
[23:41:23] <zeeshan|2> can you put a shaft through it
[23:41:42] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: I was going to make one out of plastic and piece of 1/2" pvc pipe
[23:41:53] <zeeshan|2> human powered?
[23:42:11] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: to extend yes, but to retract, no.
[23:42:26] <zeeshan|2> honestly rather than reinventing the wheel
[23:42:30] <zeeshan|2> i'd looking at a fishing reel
[23:42:52] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Heh, can't this is a 1/2" wide ribbon
[23:43:00] <zeeshan|2> oh man this is tiny!
[23:43:38] <Jymmm> I'm just not sure on what to use to tension/spring back.
[23:43:57] <Jymmm> I don't want a REAL coiled spring, too much tension I think
[23:44:23] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: It's for coiling LED strip
[23:44:54] <zeeshan|2> when i first thought about it
[23:45:02] <zeeshan|2> i was envisioning something similar to an arm attached to a wheel
[23:45:06] <zeeshan|2> like in older locomotives
[23:45:14] <zeeshan|2> but that seems unnecessary complicated :P
[23:45:17] <Jymmm> ah, like a crank of sorts
[23:45:23] <zeeshan|2> yes
[23:45:43] <Jymmm> Yeah, no something that will retract itself.
[23:46:02] <Jymmm> I thought liek a rubberband might work, but they dry out and break too easily.
[23:46:14] <zeeshan|2> i kinda like camshafts
[23:46:34] <zeeshan|2> you can make the cam profile in a while so you can spool it one way
[23:46:36] <ds3> they make rubberbands out of other material besides natural rubber
[23:46:44] <zeeshan|2> *way
[23:47:37] <Jymmm> ds3: The issues is that the tighter you extended it out, the tension builds up instead of staying consistant.
[23:48:05] <Jymmm> I dont want to be slapped in the fce if soemthign breaks
[23:48:13] <Jymmm> like a tow chain
[23:48:35] <ds3> oh
[23:48:54] <ds3> what about a torsen spring like the tape measures? they don't seem that strong
[23:49:40] <Jymmm> ds3: That might work, I just have a 1/2" one to spare
[23:49:50] <Jymmm> ^don't
[23:49:53] <ds3> or prehaps just a weight on a pulley?
[23:50:10] <ds3> like how they do it on the light rail power line supports
[23:50:29] <Jymmm> ds3: this is portable to prevent loose lines from catching on everything
[23:52:18] <ds3> ah
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