#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-10-07

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[01:03:26] <Connor> WooT: Nothing like recycling spade connectors..
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[01:06:56] <jdh> heh, that's pretty sad
[01:07:08] <jdh> but, I also know how :)
[01:07:20] <Connor> Yea. I know.. I ran out.. and had lots from the old wires I was replacing..
[01:07:34] <Connor> Just put'm in the vise and use a finish nail to open them back up.
[01:08:01] <jdh> I usually just use visegrips or linemans pliers
[01:08:18] <Connor> how do you get them open?
[01:08:49] <jdh> squeezing them the othe direction does most, then stick something pointy in and tap
[01:09:04] <Connor> Yea.
[01:09:18] <Connor> Well.. It worked. :)
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[01:13:55] <Connor> http://www.shinano.com/motors/docs/SST58D.pdf SST58D3820 Wonder if that would be strong enough to turn the rotary table...
[01:14:07] <Connor> 101.37 Oz-In torque
[01:14:24] <Connor> Wish I had a way to measure the torque needed.
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[01:15:52] <Connor> Hmm.. and they're only showing it at 24v.. I would be running it at 48v
[01:18:23] <jdh> you also need to not-turn it.
[01:18:43] <Connor> Worm Gear
[01:21:03] <Connor> I happen to have 2 of these layout around.. from a OLD robot kit that someone gave me.. they were used to drive the robot...
[01:21:43] <Connor> from a company called evolution robotics.
[01:22:49] <ssi> Connor: measuring the torque needed isn't hard
[01:22:56] <ssi> if you only need to turn it unloaded
[01:23:07] <ssi> if you need to turn it against a mill force, that changes things a bit :)
[01:23:19] <ssi> but those things are like 72:1 reductions aren't they?
[01:23:27] <ssi> I think 100ozin is probably plenty
[01:23:31] <Connor> I have no idea.. let me look up
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[01:26:35] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281269671720 That's different.
[01:27:25] <Connor> 36:1 I think
[01:28:04] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221354202721
[01:28:05] <Connor> that's mien
[01:28:07] <Connor> mien
[01:28:09] <Connor> MINE
[01:28:32] <ssi> MIEN
[01:29:00] <jdh> MEIN
[01:29:11] <Connor> Smart A$$es
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[01:30:10] <jdh> got a collet holder for it?
[01:30:30] <Connor> No. 4" Chuck on it
[01:30:36] <ssi> anyway yeah, it'd be equivalent to a direct drive 3600ozin motor
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[01:30:43] <ssi> probably will do fine
[01:34:10] <jdh> there are a ton of half-assed rotary 4th axis things on ebay
[01:34:20] <Connor> Yup.
[01:34:29] <Connor> I wouldn't have any of them
[01:34:50] <jdh> I'd pay $99.99 for one of them.
[01:35:40] <Connor> It's really mean to have a 3" chuck on it.. we made a 4" adapter plate..
[01:35:53] <Connor> meant to have
[01:36:19] <ssi> need to remake that thing in steel
[01:36:34] <Connor> This stepper motor has a old stay 15-pin D-stub on it.. Joystick style.. not VGA style..
[01:36:41] <Connor> I need a female version..
[01:36:51] <Connor> Last time I checked, Radio shack didn't have them.
[01:37:08] <jdh> I probably have some
[01:38:03] <Connor> This stepper has Nice molded boot and connector setup.. would be perfect for a accessory item like the rotary table.
[01:38:56] <ssi> frys has them
[01:39:42] <Connor> No Frys in Knoxville.
[01:39:52] <jdh> what about that place,over there
[01:39:57] <Connor> Shields ?
[01:40:01] <jdh> yeah
[01:40:02] <Connor> I rather order it online.
[01:40:20] <Connor> They would charge a arm and a leg for it.
[01:40:29] <Connor> twice what Radio Shack would. If they had one in stock.
[01:41:08] <Connor> Hard part is going to be figuring out the pinout on the stepper.
[01:41:29] <ssi> nah that part's easy
[01:41:32] <Connor> It's a 8 wire stepper.. So, Parallel or Series (BiPolar) or Unipolar.
[01:41:43] <Connor> I'm thinking Parallel
[01:44:34] <Connor> Based on the scientific method of shorting out pins.. pin 1 and 2.. and pin 3 and 4..
[01:44:47] <Connor> question is now.. if it's wired up series or parallel
[01:45:01] <PetefromTn_> Hey guys
[01:45:05] <tjtr33> how to set a hal pin in a M1xx python script? any examples?
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[01:48:17] <skunkworks> tjtr33: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/gcode/m-code.html#sec:M100-to-M199
[01:48:59] <Connor> So, Is their a MAX voltage you can run a stepper at ?
[01:49:09] <Connor> I never really understood that with them..
[01:49:39] <Connor> Says Voltage 3.4v
[01:50:14] <skunkworks> Connor: higher the better - I think the limit is probably the insulation of the motor...
[01:50:39] <ssi> Connor: yeah the voltage that they're labeled with is terribly misleading
[01:51:00] <Connor> They're charts for this stepper is listed at 24v..
[01:51:05] <Connor> I'll be running it at 48v
[01:51:11] <Connor> so, Twice the speed same torque ?
[01:51:16] <ssi> no
[01:52:11] <tjtr33> skunkworks, thanks i read a value from a file and want to set it on a halpin , using python. those examples are all bash.
[01:52:12] <tjtr33> do i uses some cmd to exec 'halcmd setp pinname value' ?
[01:52:15] <ssi> higher voltage means faster step change in current, and the absolute maximum speed you can run the motor is limited by the voltage as it relates to the inductance, ie how fast you can overcome the coil's resistance to change in current
[01:52:24] <ssi> but it's not 2x voltage = 2x speed I don't think
[01:52:35] <skunkworks> tjtr33: I just know of the bash way...
[01:52:40] <tjtr33> thx
[01:53:19] <Connor> I think I'll build a stepper mount and give this one a try.
[01:53:42] <ssi> yes, do that :)
[01:53:48] <Connor> it had good holding torque shorted out..
[01:54:55] <Connor> First things first.. I need to finish everything else I'm working on. :)
[01:55:00] <tjtr33> skunkworks, i'll play with subprocess.call("halcmd setp mypin myval", shell=True)
[01:56:03] <Connor> http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/hardware/er1/frame_const1.jpg
[01:56:22] <Connor> You can see the steppers mounted to the 80/20 and going into the motor controller.
[01:56:50] <ssi> Connor: I brought one of the fanuc motors home
[01:56:53] <Connor> I just have the steppers, the controller and motor mounts.. didn't get the frame.. Not sure If I have the battery pack or not.
[01:57:04] <ssi> I'm trying to screw together the motivates to bring it in from the car
[01:57:17] <ssi> I want to put a scope/LA on it and look at the commutation signals
[01:57:19] <Connor> ssi ROFl
[01:57:27] <ssi> and hook them up to this cpld eval board that I borrowed from a friend
[01:57:36] <ssi> start working on the commutation state machine
[01:57:49] <Connor> CPLD ?
[01:58:06] <ssi> cplds are like tiny fpgas
[01:58:13] <Connor> Oh okay
[01:58:17] <ssi> or huge pals depending what era you're from :D
[01:59:50] <ssi> turns out the gemini drives actually can run these motors without commutation signals
[01:59:54] <ssi> through "wake and shake"
[02:00:05] <ssi> but they can't do it on axes with a brake, which I'm fairly sure my Z axis has
[02:00:25] <Connor> Okay.. so explain what the deal is with a commutation signal
[02:01:06] <ssi> ok so the way brushless motors work
[02:01:17] <ssi> the coils are stationary and the rotor is permanent magnets
[02:01:21] <ssi> hence the no brushes thing
[02:01:43] <Connor> Right. Similar to a stepper.
[02:01:45] <ssi> so, sorta like stepper motors, they have to energize the coils in a particular order at a particular time
[02:02:15] <ssi> in order to do that, the drive has to know where the rotor is
[02:02:26] <ssi> so it knows which coil gets positive voltage
[02:02:30] <ssi> the other two get negative voltage
[02:02:53] <Connor> Cause, unlike stepper, it's 3 phase.. not 2 phase..
[02:02:57] <ssi> right
[02:03:19] <ssi> the most standard way to do it is with hall effect sensors
[02:03:30] <Connor> okay... so, WHY are these any different than say the ones PetefromTn_ has for his machine..
[02:03:48] <ssi> because they're different motors?
[02:03:48] <PetefromTn_> who???
[02:04:26] <Connor> PetefromTn_: YOU. I'm trying to understand the differences between the servo motors.
[02:04:44] <ssi> so when the drive starts to run the motor, it doesn't know where the rotor is in order to know which phase to energize
[02:05:30] <ssi> if it's a hall effect motor, then it knows within 120 degrees / poles (or maybe 120 degrees / (poles/2)) where it is
[02:06:03] <ssi> my motors are 8 pole motors, so if it had hall effect sensors it'd make the whole 8-state pattern four times per rev
[02:06:07] <PetefromTn_> felt like the NORTH POLE here yesterday LOL
[02:06:51] <ssi> since the drive can see the state of the hall effect sensors when the motor is stationary, it knows approximately where the rotor is and can apply the correct phase
[02:07:06] <ssi> so it does trapezoidal commutation initially
[02:07:21] <Connor> okay.
[02:07:30] <Connor> So, That's YOUR motors...
[02:07:45] <ssi> no, that's "normal" motors
[02:08:10] <ssi> it only does that for <1 rev
[02:08:24] <ssi> until it gets an index pulse from the encoder, then it uses the encoder for more precise info on where the rotor is
[02:08:25] <Connor> OKay, so, what about Pete's motors.. I don't think his has that.
[02:08:28] <ssi> then it can do sinusoidal commutation
[02:08:34] <ssi> I don't know anything about pete's motors
[02:08:38] <ssi> it's almost certainly hall effect
[02:08:45] <Connor> http://www.machmotion.com/manuals/TED/550W_1500W.pdf
[02:08:45] <ssi> but he got them as drive/motor packages, prewired
[02:09:38] <zeeshan> how is a dc servo different than a dc motor
[02:09:38] <ssi> notice there's no pinout on that datasheet? :P
[02:09:42] <zeeshan> other than it having an encoder
[02:09:50] <ssi> zeeshan: no different
[02:09:58] <zeeshan> does it have more coils or something?
[02:10:06] <ssi> dc servos are brushed dc motors
[02:10:17] <ssi> apply voltage and they spin
[02:10:19] <zeeshan> wat
[02:10:22] <zeeshan> they have brushes?
[02:10:23] <ssi> reverse the voltage and they spin the other way
[02:10:23] <zeeshan> :D
[02:10:54] <ssi> Connor: anyway to answer your question
[02:11:19] <ssi> Connor: the fanuc servos use 4 bit commutation, it accomplishes the same thing as hall effect, but with an extra bit, so twice the state transitions
[02:11:23] <Connor> I'm looking at his manual. I see NO hal effect, just the encoder.. which is why your setup was confusing me.
[02:11:37] <ssi> means it can more closely approximate a sinusoid
[02:11:45] <ssi> and has the added bonus of locking you into their drives
[02:11:49] <zeeshan> ssi can you replace hall effect sensor
[02:11:52] <zeeshan> w/ optical encoder
[02:12:02] <ssi> zeeshan: sorta
[02:12:08] <ssi> that's how the fanuc works
[02:12:13] <ssi> it uses an optical encoder for everything
[02:12:21] <ssi> there are encoders that have the hall effect tracks on them
[02:12:29] <ssi> so instead of "true" hall effects, it uses the encoder for the info
[02:12:29] <pcw_home_> actually 16/6 times the state transitions...
[02:12:44] <zeeshan> why have hall effect on the encoder disk
[02:12:49] <ssi> pcw_home_: damn combinatorics!
[02:12:54] <pcw_home_> so they dont map exactly
[02:13:07] <ssi> yeah they don't, which is one of the things that's going to make my little project tricky
[02:13:21] * zeeshan doesnt get it
[02:13:24] <pcw_home_> its just a table lookup
[02:13:25] * zeeshan electronics noob
[02:13:32] <ssi> that's what I'm hoping
[02:13:43] <ssi> I'm trying to screw together the motivates to put a shirt on and go drag the motor in from the car
[02:13:54] <pcw_home_> but you need to write down the table...
[02:14:42] <ssi> zeeshan: you asked if you could replace the hall effect with an encoder
[02:14:48] <ssi> zeeshan: then you asked why to have it on the encoder
[02:14:50] <ssi> which do you want? :P
[02:14:55] <zeeshan> ssi
[02:14:55] <Connor> Why in the world would someone use D-Sub connector for steppers... ugg..
[02:14:58] <zeeshan> i'm confused how a servo works
[02:15:09] <zeeshan> i thought a normal servo was a dc motor again
[02:15:15] <zeeshan> but used a quadrature encoder
[02:15:16] <ssi> AC servos are not dc motors
[02:15:26] <Connor> zeeshan: Servo is any motor with a encoder feedback system.
[02:15:31] <zeeshan> so you had a way to get both position and speed
[02:15:47] <zeeshan> Connor: i guess thats why i am confused
[02:15:53] <zeeshan> theres multiple types of "servo mechanisms"
[02:15:54] <ssi> zeeshan: the drive has to know what the angle of the motor is so it knows where to push
[02:16:13] <ssi> in a dc servo, it just has to apply current to the brushes and it spins
[02:16:22] <Connor> ssi If it doesn't.. does the phases simply not catch up to it ?
[02:16:48] <ssi> Connor: some drives can "wiggle" the rotor and figure out where it is, and sort of intuit what the commutation pattern is
[02:16:50] <Connor> or will it do a funky thing and just vibrate.
[02:16:53] <zeeshan> what components are in an AC motor servo?
[02:16:54] <ssi> my gemini drives can do that
[02:17:01] <pcw_home_> commutation is built in on DC motors
[02:17:02] <ssi> but they can't do it on an axis with a brake
[02:17:16] <zeeshan> induction ac motor like the ones that drive a typical motor say on a spindle
[02:17:19] <zeeshan> and an enconder?
[02:17:22] <ssi> right... a DC motor has a commutation ring which has lots of little metal tracks that the brushes touch
[02:17:33] <ssi> induction motors are different
[02:17:43] <ssi> there's no magnets in an induction motor
[02:17:49] <pcw_home_> Induction motors are asynchonous
[02:17:50] <ssi> there's a field coil and a rotor coil
[02:18:10] <zeeshan> so you need to energize each one
[02:18:14] <ssi> asynchronous means they have slip
[02:18:15] <zeeshan> to get it to spin
[02:18:16] <Connor> Aren't those some times called Hybrid motors? I.E. AC / DC ?
[02:18:21] <ssi> the more you load them, the slower they turn
[02:18:31] <Connor> err.. I mean universal
[02:18:39] <zeeshan> how would you take a regular AC induction motor
[02:18:39] <ssi> Connor: PMSM AC servo motors are actually brushless dc motors
[02:18:44] <ssi> but people call them AC servos
[02:18:46] <zeeshan> and turn it in to feedback controlled?
[02:18:49] <ssi> just to make it confusing :)
[02:19:20] <Connor> I then you have BLDC
[02:19:25] <ssi> yes, they're BLDC
[02:19:52] <pcw_home_> the trick with PMSM is to energize the stator coils to you can pull the rotor around rather than pulling it radially
[02:20:27] <ssi> I guess that's done by "leading" the rotor
[02:20:31] <ssi> so you're pulling more tangentially
[02:21:07] <pcw_home_> which means you always want the stator field to be at 90 electrical degrees to the rotor position
[02:21:20] <ssi> zeeshan: so the other thing that makes this complicated
[02:21:26] <Connor> OKay.. Here is something strange.. looking at the stepper motor torque chart... It has 2 lines.. one is Solid, one is dashed.. Solid line says Pull Out, Dashed Says Pull In and the Pull out has more torque at higher speed..
[02:21:42] <ssi> zeeshan: is when you have a motor where the commutation track is on the encoder rather than actual hall effects, the encoder has to be precisely timed to the motor
[02:22:13] <zeeshan> commutation track is the one where electricity flows in
[02:22:20] <zeeshan> to allow the motor coils to energize?
[02:22:38] <ssi> no, it's feedback
[02:22:39] <zeeshan> too many new terms :-)
[02:22:53] <ssi> encoders aren't absolute feedback
[02:23:00] <ssi> so if you plop a motor on the bench and look at the state of the encoder
[02:23:01] <pcw_home_> commutation track is just info for the drive (to tell it the rotor position)
[02:23:05] <ssi> you can't determine the rotor angle
[02:23:09] <Connor> zeeshan: You need to double major in Electrical Engineering..
[02:23:31] <ssi> but the commutation track allows you to determine the rotor angle to some coarse degree just by looking at the steady state of the commutation feedback
[02:23:37] <zeeshan> Connor: never
[02:23:41] <zeeshan> i will fail
[02:24:02] <zeeshan> ssi i'll understand this shit more
[02:24:11] <zeeshan> if someone tells me how to convert a good ol induction motor
[02:24:15] <zeeshan> to a have feedback
[02:24:19] <ssi> put a motor on the back
[02:24:21] <zeeshan> i need to know what's added to make it control
[02:24:21] <ssi> er
[02:24:22] <ssi> encoder
[02:24:24] <pcw_home_> newer Fanuc motors have a 1024 count/ electrical rotation absolute encoder
[02:24:30] <ssi> pcw_home_: yeah
[02:24:33] <ssi> mine are incremental
[02:24:37] <zeeshan> by encoder you mean an optical disk
[02:24:41] <zeeshan> that picks it's position?
[02:24:47] <zeeshan> with multiple lines
[02:24:53] <ssi> yeah, that's one form of encoder
[02:25:01] <zeeshan> so technically i have a "Servo motor"
[02:25:07] <zeeshan> because i have encoders on the spindle
[02:25:14] <zeeshan> which keep track of the positition of the motor
[02:25:17] <ssi> no, you have an induction motor that happens to be part of a servo system
[02:25:17] <pcw_home_> yeah the serial encoders probably start around mid 90s or later
[02:25:23] <ssi> pcw_home_: my machine is 93
[02:25:32] <ssi> the serial encoders look like even more hassle to deal with, tbh
[02:25:32] <zeeshan> ssi as opposed to?
[02:25:47] <pcw_home_> much higher res
[02:25:49] <ssi> zeeshan: as opposed to a "servo motor", which is a colloquial term for a motor designed to be used in a servo system :)
[02:26:06] <zeeshan> so adding an encoder to a regular induction motor
[02:26:10] <zeeshan> doesnt make it a servo motor? :/
[02:26:14] <ssi> pcw_home_: on the fanuc stuff, the incremental encoders are called "pulse coders", and labeled as "2000P" or "3000P"
[02:26:27] <ssi> pcw_home_: mine are 3000P. Is that 3000 line? or 3000 cpr, or what
[02:26:39] <zeeshan> ssi: that all means the same shit
[02:26:41] <zeeshan> :)
[02:26:46] <pcw_home_> 3000 line (12000 counts)
[02:26:46] <zeeshan> damn terminology online
[02:26:53] <ssi> zeeshan: if you open the trunk of your car and stick a bunch of 2x4s in the back to bring them home from the store, does that make your car a pickup truck?
[02:27:00] <zeeshan> ssi no
[02:27:06] <ssi> pcw_home_: ok cool... I'm comfortable with that resolution :)
[02:27:24] <ssi> zeeshan: but could you say that it was being used in a 'pickp truck system'? heh
[02:27:35] <zeeshan> help me understand it wit htheory
[02:27:36] <roycroft> depends on if you just open up the trunk lid or sawzall it off :P
[02:27:38] <zeeshan> http://www.johnsonelectric.com/common/en/images/resources-for-engineers/motors/basics-of-motors/ac-motors-theory-01.jpg
[02:27:43] <zeeshan> thats your typical ac induction motor
[02:27:43] <zeeshan> yea?
[02:28:00] <ssi> yes
[02:28:12] <zeeshan> the reason sticking an optical encoder on the shaft means nothing
[02:28:13] <zeeshan> is because
[02:28:19] <zeeshan> you're basically saying.. i need an encoder
[02:28:25] <zeeshan> in series or somewheree in that electrical circuit
[02:28:26] <zeeshan> of the coils
[02:28:31] <ssi> ...no?
[02:28:32] <zeeshan> to transform it in to a "servo ac motor"
[02:28:33] <zeeshan> haha
[02:28:36] <zeeshan> okay then what
[02:28:36] <ssi> I don't know what you're trying to accomplish
[02:28:37] <zeeshan> im lost
[02:28:43] <pcw_home_> Most induction motors make poor servos
[02:28:52] <zeeshan> i'm trying to figure out how to convert an induction motor
[02:28:52] <zeeshan> to a servo
[02:29:06] <zeeshan> "servo induction motor"
[02:29:16] <ssi> you can run an induction motor as a servo by sticking an encoder on it and using an appropriate system to control it
[02:29:23] <ssi> but as pcw said, it'll perform poorly
[02:29:33] <zeeshan> does it perform poorly for 1 major factor
[02:29:34] <zeeshan> slip?
[02:29:41] <ssi> yes slip, lack of synchronicity
[02:29:47] <pcw_home_> You can with a smart vector drive, but unless you have a very smart drive and a special motor it will have lousy performance
[02:30:02] <zeeshan> i has smart vector drive
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[02:30:11] <ssi> this is why we've been going around in circles trying to figure out how to get spindle orient going
[02:30:12] <zeeshan> it needs like some signal i think 0 to 10v
[02:30:19] <zeeshan> and you put in some values for p i d
[02:30:44] <ssi> it's fairly straightforward to use a vector drive and feedback to tightly control the speed of an induction motor
[02:30:45] <pcw_home_> Yeah but not designed for high bandwidth or torque through reversals
[02:30:57] <ssi> but as the speed gets slow, it gets worse and worse
[02:31:00] <zeeshan> can you post a picture of an industrial servo
[02:31:02] <zeeshan> from the inside
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[02:31:20] <Connor> I basicly turned my spindle into a servo.. but, not a very good one because I'm using a SCR type driver..
[02:31:23] <ssi> http://powerelectronics.com/site-files/powerelectronics.com/files/archive/eetweb.com/motors-drives/servomotor-article04.jpg
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[02:31:31] <ssi> Connor: your spindle is a DC motor too
[02:31:37] <Connor> Yup.
[02:31:39] <ssi> much easier
[02:31:52] -!- tjb1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[02:32:02] <zeeshan> do the brushes
[02:32:07] <zeeshan> touch those copper pads
[02:32:11] <ssi> no brushes in that motor
[02:32:13] <Connor> But, still kind sucky due to the SCR driver.. Has acceleration built in.. and stuch..
[02:32:18] <ssi> those aren't pads, those are coils
[02:32:20] <ssi> it's been sectioned
[02:32:22] <zeeshan> o
[02:32:38] <zeeshan> so the big difference between this an an induction motor
[02:32:41] <zeeshan> is that it has multiple coils?
[02:32:49] <ssi> the big difference is the lack of induction :)
[02:33:01] <zeeshan> so there are brushes somewhere?
[02:33:01] <ssi> and the fact that the coils are the stator, and the rotor is a permanent magnet assembly
[02:33:05] <pcw_home_> No the difference is the rotor
[02:33:06] <ssi> no brushes
[02:33:08] <zeeshan> ah
[02:33:09] <zeeshan> AH
[02:33:10] <zeeshan> AH
[02:33:13] <Connor> No. Permanent magnet.
[02:33:23] <zeeshan> theres a name for this
[02:33:28] <ssi> "brushless"
[02:33:29] <zeeshan> that we covered in my controls class
[02:33:29] <ssi> :P
[02:33:50] <zeeshan> wait a sec
[02:33:55] <zeeshan> how is this any different than a stepper
[02:34:00] <ssi> :P
[02:34:04] <pcw_home_> the rotor in an induction motor is basically a transformer
[02:34:04] <zeeshan> looks the same
[02:34:10] <ssi> it's similar
[02:34:17] <Connor> The way the poles and phases are done.
[02:34:21] <ssi> but steppers are designed to "make before break" I guess you could say
[02:34:30] <ssi> whereas brushless motors are designed to continue spinning
[02:34:37] <zeeshan> http://avdweb.nl/Article_files/Solarbike/Motor-controller/4-Pole-brushless-DC-motor-animation.jpg
[02:34:40] <zeeshan> this makes a lot of sense to me
[02:34:59] <zeeshan> so every time you energize a coil
[02:35:00] <ssi> see the hall signals?
[02:35:01] <zeeshan> it turns the rotor
[02:35:04] <ssi> that's the commutation info
[02:35:06] <pcw_home_> a stepper is just a 2 phase 50 pole hybrid BLDC
[02:35:18] <zeeshan> gotcha
[02:35:23] <zeeshan> and a brushless dc motor
[02:35:27] <zeeshan> is polyphase
[02:35:37] <pcw_home_> (and can be runs as such, newer leadshine drives do this)
[02:35:39] <ssi> yes, normally 3 phase
[02:35:52] <ssi> 3 phase, N pole
[02:35:55] <ssi> my motors are 8 pole
[02:35:57] <zeeshan> man these industrial guys
[02:35:58] <Connor> pcw_home_: You talking about those hybird Stepper servos ?
[02:36:00] <zeeshan> need to get a kick in the ASS
[02:36:03] <zeeshan> for callthing this AC servos
[02:36:04] <zeeshan> lol
[02:36:08] <zeeshan> *these
[02:36:14] <zeeshan> i ALWAYS thought they were induction motors
[02:36:18] <ssi> yeah the terminology is not great :)
[02:36:19] <zeeshan> i learned something new today
[02:36:22] <zeeshan> thank you!
[02:36:39] <pcw_home_> Yes they run the stepmotor as a servo (basically same code as a AC servo just 2 phases insted of 3)
[02:37:09] <zeeshan> ssi when you say 8 pole
[02:37:12] <zeeshan> you mean its got 4 norths
[02:37:15] <zeeshan> and 4 souths?
[02:37:21] <zeeshan> NSNSNSNS
[02:37:22] <Connor> Right.. that's why everyone is raving about upgrading by using a stepper with a encoder...
[02:37:25] <zeeshan> in the permanent magnet?
[02:37:29] <ssi> zeeshan: I believe that's correct
[02:37:34] <Connor> it stops being a stepper as such..
[02:37:58] <Connor> zeeshan: Would have to be.. No one proven mono-poles yet. :)
[02:38:05] <zeeshan> hehe
[02:38:05] <pcw_home_> yeah its just a 50 pole servo
[02:38:24] <zeeshan> the only diference from the diagrams as you guys are saying
[02:38:28] <zeeshan> is a stepper only has a NS
[02:38:31] <zeeshan> not multi poles
[02:38:37] <zeeshan> it just has multiple coils you can energize around it
[02:38:43] <ssi> stepper has 50 poles
[02:38:47] <ssi> as pcw said
[02:38:50] <zeeshan> im talking about the permanent magnet
[02:38:56] <zeeshan> perm magnetic is just NS?
[02:39:03] <zeeshan> or NS times 25
[02:39:08] <ssi> no, NS times 25
[02:39:11] <zeeshan> ah
[02:39:13] <pcw_home_> (1.8 degree step motors are 50 pole anyway)
[02:39:21] <zeeshan> okay so basically
[02:39:23] <ssi> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/StepperMotor.gif
[02:39:27] <zeeshan> you need 50 phase signals
[02:39:31] <zeeshan> to make mr stepper
[02:39:33] <zeeshan> work like a mr servo
[02:39:38] <ssi> that's why it turns a small step, not a 90 degree step
[02:39:46] <CaptHindsight> are there magnets that have other than NS?
[02:39:59] <pcw_home_> you need 50 phase rotations to get 1 turn
[02:40:03] <zeeshan> 360 / 50 = 7.2
[02:40:06] <zeeshan> math not working
[02:40:07] <jdh> EW magnets
[02:40:30] <Connor> 50 = 90 degrees.
[02:40:40] <ssi> right
[02:40:42] <pcw_home_> a full step is 90 electrical degrees
[02:40:44] <ssi> 200 to get a turn
[02:41:03] <zeeshan> i wonder if you try to provide 50 phase rotations to a stepper
[02:41:07] <zeeshan> if it'll burn down
[02:41:16] <zeeshan> cause of the heat generated
[02:41:23] * zeeshan is talking out of his ass now
[02:41:45] <ssi> oh, just now? ;)
[02:41:49] <zeeshan> ssi
[02:41:53] <zeeshan> so your motor must have 8 leads
[02:41:58] <ssi> why must it
[02:41:58] <zeeshan> that go to each coil
[02:42:01] <CaptHindsight> if you run it at too high a voltage
[02:42:07] <zeeshan> cause you have an 8 pole motor
[02:42:08] <ssi> they're internally connected
[02:42:11] <zeeshan> o
[02:42:16] <Connor> No. It has 3
[02:42:18] <zeeshan> how many wires go to the coils
[02:42:28] <ssi> 1 to each
[02:42:37] <zeeshan> how many coils total
[02:42:40] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, magnets have NS but can be many different shapes
[02:42:40] <ssi> 3
[02:42:44] <ssi> they're delta arranged I imagine
[02:42:48] <zeeshan> ah
[02:42:55] <Connor> 3 hall effects.
[02:43:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ni.com/white-paper/14877/en/
[02:43:07] <ssi> apply voltage to one coil, and current flows positive to the next, and negative to the previous ( I think )
[02:43:14] <ssi> and there's no net current in the third leg
[02:43:33] <zeeshan> in this diagram
[02:43:36] <zeeshan> http://avdweb.nl/Article_files/Solarbike/Motor-controller/4-Pole-brushless-DC-motor-animation.jpg
[02:43:39] <zeeshan> whats H1 H2 H3
[02:43:47] <Connor> That's the Hall Effect sensors
[02:43:51] <ssi> the hall effects
[02:43:59] <zeeshan> omfg
[02:44:02] <zeeshan> this makes sense now
[02:44:05] <zeeshan> ofcourse they'd use hall effect
[02:44:05] <ssi> heh
[02:44:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ni.com/cms/images/devzone/ph/a3427a871311.gif http://www.ni.com/cms/images/devzone/ph/a3427a871312.gif
[02:44:10] <zeeshan> cause you got a permanent magnet in the middle
[02:44:15] <ssi> right :P
[02:44:16] * Tom_itx turns on a light for zeeshan
[02:44:17] <zeeshan> which whenever it rotates, you'll get a pulse
[02:44:24] <zeeshan> its like a crankshaft sensor
[02:44:27] <ssi> yep
[02:44:30] <ssi> not just a pulse
[02:44:37] <ssi> the hall effect is steady state showing you the position of the rotor
[02:44:37] <Connor> more like a switch
[02:44:39] <ssi> even if it's not moving
[02:44:46] <ssi> that's the whole point
[02:44:49] <zeeshan> ssi because theyre 120 degrees apart?
[02:44:53] <ssi> you can turn the system on, know exactly where the rotor is
[02:45:02] <ssi> and by exactly, I mean exactly close enough to know how to commutate :)
[02:45:18] <ssi> once it's spinning, the encoder is working
[02:45:22] <Connor> zeeshan: What *I* was confused about.. was Pete's Servo's doesn't have any hall effect sensors...
[02:45:29] <ssi> then the drive can get an absolute reference from the encoder
[02:45:39] <ssi> and start doing tighter, more precise commutation based on encoder counts
[02:45:49] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, also: http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/index.html
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[02:45:58] <zeeshan> why is using the hall effects not perecise enough
[02:46:03] <ssi> Connor: I don't know ANYTHING about pete's motors, and the documentation I could find was sparse to be generous
[02:46:20] <zeeshan> cause you have 3 pulses per rev
[02:46:20] <Connor> ssi Yea.. I was just looking over his documentation..
[02:46:20] <ssi> zeeshan: because when you're turning the servo slowly, you don't know exactly where the rotor is
[02:46:21] <zeeshan> ?!
[02:46:34] <ssi> you know it's somewhere in the arc that the hall effects can see
[02:46:37] <ssi> but not exactly where it is
[02:46:44] <ssi> so with only hall effects, you get trapezoidal commutation
[02:46:45] <zeeshan> so it's like having a 3 trigger optical disc
[02:46:47] <ssi> and it's "lumpy"
[02:46:50] <zeeshan> no resolution
[02:46:53] <ssi> right
[02:47:11] <ssi> good drives will actually apply current to the phases in exact proportion to the rotor angle
[02:47:14] <ssi> for smoother torque delivery
[02:47:21] <zeeshan> ok, im really glad i dropped out of EE
[02:47:22] <zeeshan> so glad
[02:47:22] <ssi> but they don't know the exact rotor angle without encoder feedback
[02:47:24] <zeeshan> :-)
[02:47:30] <pcw_home_> You can commutate exclusively will Hall signals
[02:47:52] <pcw_home_> some simple drives do, but they are "tickey"
[02:48:02] <zeeshan> i'm trying ti remember the lab we did
[02:48:06] <zeeshan> we measured motor slip somehow
[02:48:10] <zeeshan> for an induction motor
[02:48:14] <CaptHindsight> https://sites.google.com/site/controlandelectronics/stepper-motor-types this site does a good job of showing pulse vs position
[02:48:24] <Jymmm> Shouldn't you be able to using two hall sensors?
[02:48:36] <pcw_home_> you get a ~13% torque jump at every Hall edge that the servo system has to work around
[02:49:23] <Jymmm> thats not vey fun at all
[02:49:26] <Jymmm> very*
[02:49:53] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home_: doesn't your servo driver work without Hall signals by just reading the quadrature?
[02:50:00] <pcw_home_> kind of like dc motors with only a few commutator segments
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[02:50:30] <zeeshan> the cheap dc servos people buy
[02:50:32] <zeeshan> are PMSM right?
[02:50:50] <pcw_home_> Yes the 8I20 (and the BLDC comp) can use multiple reference sources
[02:51:24] <pcw_home_> DC servos are not PMSM
[02:51:43] <zeeshan> they are just called dc motor servo?
[02:51:48] <zeeshan> (which means they have brushes)
[02:52:39] <pcw_home_> DC servos have a wound rotor and (possibly wound stator possibly PM stator)
[02:52:56] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzT-LfTIcAAwrGy.jpg:large
[02:53:07] <zeeshan> i see 4 pins!
[02:53:14] <zeeshan> i see a part number
[02:53:14] <ssi> I like how it says OUTPUT: 0KW
[02:53:24] <zeeshan> a06b-0512-b506?
[02:53:29] <ssi> yep
[02:54:38] <pcw_home_> 4 pins are 3 phase and GND
[02:54:42] <ssi> right
[02:54:54] <ssi> and I was wrong
[02:54:59] <ssi> it's not delta connected, it's wye connected
[02:55:04] <ssi> hence the ground
[02:55:11] <zeeshan> yea
[02:55:13] <zeeshan> it says Y on it
[02:55:20] <ssi> right
[02:55:27] <pcw_home_> The ground is just a frame ground
[02:55:37] <zeeshan> just incase the coils short
[02:55:40] <ssi> pcw_home_: doesn't wye require a star ground?
[02:55:42] <zeeshan> and you dont get owned?
[02:55:47] <pcw_home_> no
[02:55:52] <ssi> ah ok
[02:56:03] <ssi> so you do have one up phase and two down
[02:56:13] <zeeshan> http://www.industrial-electronics.com/images/elecy3_20-2.jpg
[02:56:16] <zeeshan> WYE!
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[02:56:56] <ssi> wye? because we want to!
[02:57:15] <ssi> it's amazing how tightly fanuc has their documentation locked down
[02:58:00] <pcw_home_> You have to remember that the drive signal is a 160V rectangular wave signal this drives into the (considerable)
[02:58:02] <pcw_home_> winding to ground capacitance, so you get real nice current spikes on the ground return
[02:58:42] <ssi> right
[02:59:01] <pcw_home_> so returning these ground currents to the drive (via a known path) is important
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[03:00:35] <pcw_home_> you will find that you can get a shock from the motor if not grounded even if the insulation is perfect
[03:01:17] <zeeshan> ssi
[03:01:21] <zeeshan> whats that big ass connector on the red cap
[03:01:24] <zeeshan> do you know the pinouts?
[03:01:33] <tjtr33> skunkworks, it works :) code is like cmd='halcmd sets offval '+str(OfT) subprocess.call(cmd, shell=True) vid is https://videobin.org/+86p/azg.html
[03:01:43] <ssi> zeeshan: I have documentation that I think will get me there
[03:01:51] <ssi> it's a CMC, cannon plug
[03:02:07] <zeeshan> whats the pinouts for
[03:02:13] <zeeshan> 3 wires = hall?
[03:02:19] <ssi> don't have hall on this motor
[03:02:21] <zeeshan> couple encoder wires?
[03:02:23] <ssi> that's what started this whole conversation :)
[03:02:29] <zeeshan> oh ok
[03:02:39] <ssi> commutation is built into the encoder on these
[03:02:42] <pcw_home_> Theres a motor thermistor also
[03:02:42] <ssi> and it's 4 bit greycode
[03:02:44] <ssi> yes
[03:02:48] <zeeshan> what would happe
[03:02:53] <zeeshan> if you connected 3 of your phase pins
[03:02:55] <zeeshan> to 3 phase power
[03:02:57] <zeeshan> :D
[03:03:06] <zeeshan> @ 110v per phase
[03:03:15] <zeeshan> it would start spinning?
[03:03:16] <ssi> it might spin, it might sit there and vibrate
[03:03:18] <ssi> I dunno
[03:03:37] <zeeshan> i guess when way to check out whats going onn
[03:03:40] <zeeshan> is spin the shaft
[03:03:44] <zeeshan> and hook up scope to those pins?
[03:03:47] <ssi> that's my plan!
[03:03:48] <zeeshan> and see what waves get generated?
[03:03:51] <ssi> probably logic analyzer tho
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[03:04:18] <ssi> then I'm going to try to cobble together interface hardware with a cpld devboard i have
[03:04:18] <zeeshan> i can ask my source @ fanuc
[03:04:20] <zeeshan> for a pinout for your motor
[03:04:22] <zeeshan> no guarantees
[03:04:22] <ssi> and try to write a lookup table
[03:04:30] <ssi> I think I have enough data
[03:04:33] <ssi> I have the cableset with me
[03:04:40] <ssi> and the end that goes to the drive, but it's cut off
[03:04:42] <zeeshan> nothing beats the oem data sheet
[03:04:42] <zeeshan> :D
[03:04:43] <ssi> so I know what color is what pin
[03:04:46] <ssi> and I have the schematics for the control
[03:04:55] <ssi> but if you can get me a fanuc sheet, I'd love to have it
[03:05:41] <zeeshan> i try
[03:06:20] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzUBTjkIMAAeabu.jpg:large
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[03:08:18] <pcw_home_> freeby.mesanet.com/f.pdf has a lot of encoder pinouts
[03:09:35] <pcw_home_> page 63 is probably yours
[03:11:23] <pcw_home_> or close
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[03:12:41] <ssi> yeah probably so
[03:12:51] <ssi> same connector part num
[03:13:02] <zeeshan> im a bit scared
[03:13:04] <zeeshan> to retrofit my shit now
[03:13:09] <ssi> lol
[03:13:10] <zeeshan> i dont think theres any manuals for it
[03:13:11] <zeeshan> haha
[03:13:16] <zeeshan> i found out friday :)
[03:13:28] <ssi> man up, buy an oscilloscope
[03:13:33] <ssi> learn you up some EE
[03:13:38] <zeeshan> ee too advanced for me
[03:13:47] <zeeshan> i understand forces, fluids, heat transfer, continuum mechanics
[03:13:49] <zeeshan> thats it
[03:13:53] <zeeshan> not how transistors switch
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[03:14:01] <zeeshan> i understand vibrations!
[03:14:09] <zeeshan> i notice the EE guys have similar diagrams
[03:14:10] <ssi> ee is just vibrations
[03:14:13] <zeeshan> to our vibrations
[03:14:25] <zeeshan> our equation is mx" + cx' + kx = someinputfunction
[03:14:39] <zeeshan> theirs is something to do with capacitance, inductance
[03:14:42] <zeeshan> and resistance
[03:15:03] <ssi> capacitance, inductance, and resistance are all just special forms of impedance :)
[03:15:03] <pcw_home_> its all the same
[03:15:13] <pcw_home_> only the names have been changed
[03:15:22] <zeeshan> pcw_home_: mathematically they are the same
[03:15:26] <zeeshan> i get lost in applicatance
[03:15:27] <ssi> impedance is the same thing as mechanical compliance
[03:15:29] <zeeshan> *application
[03:15:31] <ssi> well probably inverse to compliance :)
[03:15:45] <zeeshan> i can visualize a mass spring dampener
[03:15:51] <pcw_home_> admittance
[03:15:53] <ssi> even a non-PE retard like me can figure the stuff out, eh
[03:15:54] <zeeshan> not an impedance circuit :P
[03:16:12] <zeeshan> fak electronics
[03:16:15] <zeeshan> just tell me pinouts
[03:16:16] <zeeshan> im good to go
[03:16:22] <zeeshan> :-)
[03:16:33] <zeeshan> i like "BOX" diagrams for that reason
[03:16:43] <zeeshan> don't have to worry about whats going on inside
[03:16:44] <Jymmm> zeeshan: just connect all the pins together
[03:16:50] <zeeshan> Jymmm: plug and play
[03:16:50] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzUDsxsIAAA_WDA.jpg:large
[03:16:56] <ssi> that's the fanuc servo drive
[03:16:58] <ssi> 3 axis drive
[03:17:02] <zeeshan> if i saw that
[03:17:05] <Jymmm> zeeshan: More like plug and dial 911
[03:17:06] <zeeshan> and had to decode the pinouts
[03:17:09] <zeeshan> it'd be game over
[03:17:19] <ssi> heh I wouldn't want to have to decode the pinouts on this bastard either
[03:17:20] <Jymmm> zeeshan: or grab marshmellows
[03:17:40] <zeeshan> all i see is ics
[03:17:42] <zeeshan> and capcaictors
[03:17:54] <zeeshan> and a couple of little inductors
[03:18:01] <zeeshan> whats that black thing on the very top?
[03:18:06] <ssi> all I see is horrible early 90s throughhole electronics
[03:18:10] <ssi> it's a heat sink :P
[03:18:15] <zeeshan> hey on the bright side
[03:18:20] <ssi> see the TO220s bolted to the side?
[03:18:20] <zeeshan> you can replace components on it easily
[03:18:27] <zeeshan> the white face things?
[03:18:33] <ssi> the white is thermal grease
[03:18:40] <zeeshan> oh isee it now
[03:18:47] <zeeshan> looks like voltage regulators
[03:18:52] <ssi> might be
[03:18:54] <ssi> might be transistors
[03:18:58] <ssi> don't really care
[03:19:06] <ssi> looks like $4000 someone needs to give me
[03:19:10] <zeeshan> hahah
[03:19:51] <zeeshan> doing car wiring harneses is so much easier
[03:19:54] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301307684232
[03:19:56] <zeeshan> in comparison to cnc wiring
[03:20:17] <zeeshan> 4kl
[03:20:18] <zeeshan> damn
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[03:28:36] <zeeshan> im making achip pan for the lathe
[03:28:42] <zeeshan> its a bit of a pain in the ass
[03:28:47] <zeeshan> because i wish i had a mig welder to lay the long ass bead
[03:28:55] <zeeshan> tigging is slow =/
[03:29:52] <ssi> there
[03:29:53] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fanuc-Servo-Drive-A068-6050-H402-Cincinnati-Sabre-/191363465937?#shpCntId
[03:29:56] <ssi> give me moneyz
[03:34:30] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/london/mig-welder/1023708531
[03:34:33] <zeeshan> seems cheap for a mig?
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[03:37:32] <Gammax> evening all
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[04:02:21] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: does anything actually go on in #diycnc ?
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[04:28:54] <Connor_iPad> So, how does one go about rigging up a plate so that it's trammed perfectly to the table? I know alignment pins. But how does
[04:29:14] <XXCoder> does this object has interior holes?
[04:29:16] <Connor_iPad> One go about aligning the holes for the pins to begin with?
[04:29:44] <Connor_iPad> T slots on the table.
[04:29:49] <XXCoder> clamping is black art heh theres few possibilities
[04:30:25] <XXCoder> for example you could make it drill holes on part where it will be void (cut out) and you can then mount it very firmly for outer cut
[04:30:40] <XXCoder> then do outer clamping for third stage of cutting out interior voids
[04:30:56] <Connor_iPad> This is more of a fixture plate.
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[04:42:28] <XXCoder> oh
[04:42:46] <XXCoder> well if it is designed to have holes you definitely can use those
[04:42:55] <XXCoder> besides that dunno
[04:44:56] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: not rerally lol
[04:45:37] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: #cnc is dead
[04:45:40] <XXCoder> and registered
[04:45:47] <XXCoder> tried to register it, nope
[04:46:37] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Q3yOFPs.jpg
[04:46:37] <zeeshan> lol
[04:47:24] <zeeshan> Connor: are your T slots ground
[04:47:26] <zeeshan> on the corners?
[04:47:36] <Connor> I have no idea.
[04:48:01] <Connor> This is on th G0704..
[04:48:16] <zeeshan> got closeups of the table?
[04:48:55] <zeeshan> http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qw88LSvFoac/maxresdefault.jpg
[04:49:02] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_04_09_14_04.jpg
[04:49:30] <zeeshan> usually you can machine squares
[04:49:36] <zeeshan> or rectangles that fit in that slot
[04:49:46] <zeeshan> and mount them to your fixture plate and use a tnut
[04:50:21] <zeeshan> if those arent machined
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[04:53:08] <Connor> I think I'll have to come up with some sort of adjustment mech... I need a way to attach the 4th axis to my table.
[04:53:18] <Connor> but.. I don't want to tram it every single time.
[04:53:38] <zeeshan> make a fixture plate for your table
[04:53:49] <zeeshan> tram that once
[04:54:05] <zeeshan> and then have dowel hole/registers for your components
[04:54:08] <zeeshan> like the 4th axis
[04:54:11] <Connor> Going to make a mini figure plate for the 4th axis.. but.. you still have to tram the rotary table or 4th axis to the fixture plate..
[04:54:29] <zeeshan> why
[04:54:42] <zeeshan> if you put 3 spheres on your fixture plate
[04:54:47] <zeeshan> or dowels
[04:55:04] <zeeshan> and relative that that precisely drill holes/dowel locations for your 4th axis
[04:55:13] <zeeshan> then you can always zero off the dowels on the fixture plate
[04:55:19] <zeeshan> and go to your 4th axis location
[04:55:32] <zeeshan> -that = to
[04:56:01] <Connor> the 4th axis..(think lathe spindle) will be mounted to a fixture plate.. from underneath. with counter bored holes..
[04:56:29] <zeeshan> oh
[04:56:32] <Connor> I have No way to precisely tram it.
[04:56:33] <zeeshan> i thought you could access the bolts from top :P
[04:56:43] <Connor> I can on the rotary table.
[04:57:10] <Connor> But.. I'm thinking long term on this 4th axis index/spindle
[04:58:26] <Connor> Only thing I can think of is.. is a precession ground dowel for the front.. and some sort of adjustable pin for the rear (read front as being to the right, rear to the left of the 4th axis)
[04:59:01] <Connor> after it's trammed in for first time.. lock the adjustment down.. then use the T-nuts to lock down the mounting fixutre.
[04:59:46] <Connor> but, only if my center grove is ground.
[05:00:00] <zeeshan> pics of 4th axis index/spindle
[05:00:13] <Connor> Don't have it yet. It's just a idea
[05:00:25] <Connor> it'll be based on the casting from a 7x12 machine.
[05:00:40] <Connor> converted to 5c, with a plate that the iron cast bolts too.
[05:01:20] <Connor> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2299&category=1023914534
[05:01:55] <zeeshan> is the bottom of th eheadstock
[05:01:56] <zeeshan> threaded?
[05:02:11] <zeeshan> to accept bolts?
[05:02:47] <Connor> Probably. I think they take them off of working machines.
[05:02:59] <Connor> It DOES have a V grove in it..
[05:03:03] <Connor> I just noticed that.
[05:03:12] <zeeshan> :D
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[05:04:07] <Connor> but, their is no guarantee how accurate that is.. and again how do you tram that too the plate and the plate to the table.
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[05:05:15] <zeeshan> say you were to mount that to your table directly.. you can put a precision ground dowel on it
[05:05:29] <zeeshan> then run an indicator along the top of the dowel
[05:05:33] <zeeshan> and on the side of the dowel
[05:05:51] <zeeshan> should get you perpendicular to the spindle
[05:06:40] <zeeshan> after you get it square
[05:07:14] <zeeshan> you can check for Z axis tilt
[05:08:54] <Connor> Ugg.. this makes my head hurt.. I'm too freaking OCD.
[05:09:45] <zeeshan> :D
[05:09:47] <zeeshan> sleep on it
[05:09:54] <zeeshan> zzz time
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[05:23:05] <ssi> sleep already?
[05:23:06] <ssi> lame
[05:23:51] <MrL> everyone here american? :D
[05:24:05] <MrL> seems that no one here when im awake
[05:25:24] <ssi> we have plenty of non americans
[05:31:22] <MrL> cool
[05:31:34] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzUie9MIcAAIUWt.jpg:large
[05:31:40] <CaptHindsight> uhmerican
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[05:32:58] <ssi> that drawing out of my control schematics book seems to match the fanuc pdf pcw linked me
[05:33:25] <CaptHindsight> ^5
[05:34:43] <CaptHindsight> ssi: this from the new VMC?
[05:34:55] <ssi> ya
[05:35:54] <CaptHindsight> ssi: how did you end up getting it from the trailer to its final spot on the floor?
[05:36:40] <ssi> huge ass forklift :D
[05:36:49] <ssi> https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10672253_10100490548539302_6407225546292985700_n.jpg?oh=133d4623b69296b2b3cb4d91698ce09f&oe=54BE9D52
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[05:54:07] <Connor> how did that thing not tip..
[05:54:21] <ssi> that forklift weighs 19,528lb
[05:58:55] <CaptHindsight> it doesn't look that heavy
[05:59:14] <MrL> is it filled with lead
[05:59:37] <CaptHindsight> ssi: how much did it weigh without you in it? :)
[06:00:00] <MrL> xD
[06:00:07] <ssi> 19,528 was the dataplate weight
[06:00:09] <ssi> my ass can only help
[06:01:02] <ssi> I still have the lift
[06:01:05] <ssi> I'm actually kinda concerned
[06:01:16] <ssi> they were supposed to come get it friday
[06:01:28] <Connor> That's not good. Wonder why they didn't come get it?
[06:01:38] <ssi> not sure
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[06:01:41] <ssi> I need to call tomorrow
[06:01:55] <CaptHindsight> I'd call them in case they are trying to get you for extra time
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[06:02:16] <ssi> well the guy I rented it from came by friday morning and picked up a check
[06:02:19] <ssi> I have a receipt for the rental
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[06:06:03] <ssi> crap
[06:06:15] <ssi> I have everything I need to terminate d-sub connectors here, except pins :(
[06:06:18] <ssi> pins are all at the airport
[06:06:48] <Connor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plNO7fntQkY
[06:07:37] <ssi> ugh
[06:07:39] <ssi> I hate flying cars
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[06:12:55] <ssi> CaptHindsight: ok so I think I'm about ready to try to hook up one of these gemini drives and try to program it
[06:17:27] <ssi> I bought a null modem cable at frys saturday
[06:17:30] <ssi> I hope it's the right gender
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[06:21:27] <ssi> hm
[06:21:34] <ssi> I hope that drive wasn't so cheap because it's dead :P
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[06:31:12] <ssi> I think that may in fact be the case
[06:31:20] <ssi> I have three U6Es and three U12Es
[06:31:28] <ssi> I just bought the U6Es last week, and they were CHEAP
[06:31:34] <ssi> I brought one U6 and one U12 home with me
[06:31:38] <ssi> the U12 powers up
[06:31:44] <ssi> the U6 just clicks, sounds and smells angry
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[06:49:37] <Deejay> moin
[06:56:33] <ssi> hi
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[07:35:37] <ssi> bah
[07:35:40] <ssi> I need datasheets for these motors
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[07:46:17] <ssi> haaalp
[07:46:17] <ssi> :(
[07:47:12] <Gammax> hi
[07:47:16] <Gammax> :)
[07:47:44] <ssi> hi
[07:47:57] <ssi> do you know anything about parker gemini drives?!
[07:48:21] <Gammax> WHats up!
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[07:51:23] <ssi> I can't make this thing do what it's supposed to
[07:51:38] <ssi> 2. Issue the following command to the drive:
[07:51:38] <ssi> DRIVE1 (enables the drive)
[07:51:47] <ssi> when I do that, it just gives me back a ?
[07:52:13] <ssi> like it's expecting a parameter
[07:52:20] <ssi> and I can't find any damn documentation on the commands
[07:56:26] <Gammax> i dunno what your talking about] or your setup
[07:56:35] <ssi> Bit 7 : Motor Configuration Error YES
[07:56:40] <ssi> that probably has something to do with it
[08:00:17] <MacGalempsy> hello
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[10:20:07] <jdh> TASX or TASF
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[12:19:05] <jdh> but, there are assloads of motor config options and there might be existing values left in your drives.
[12:19:25] <jdh> install motion planner on a winbox, run the config wizard, save the text file it generates
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[14:00:14] <JT-Shop> if you had to make some 17mm balls with a 1/4"-20 tapped hole from 6061 on the lathe would you thread some round stock and screw that to a mandrel or something like that?
[14:00:27] <JT-Shop> I assume you need to use a round insert to cut the ball?
[14:03:49] <PetefromTn_> I use either a form tool custom ground or my ball radius turning tools I built
[14:04:39] <jdh> GPS mount?
[14:06:48] <PetefromTn_> Of course I don't have a nice fancy CNC lathe.....YET!
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[14:10:19] <JT-Shop> yea gps mount
[14:11:42] <PetefromTn_> got an image?
[14:12:11] <JT-Shop> no, just a 17mm ball on a stud
[14:13:30] <jdh> I use suction cup ones. They have a short life.
[14:13:39] <jdh> (the suction cup part)
[14:13:40] <PetefromTn_> If I had to make them I would probably start with round stock in the three jaw, drill and tap with the tailstock, then turn with the radius tool until it ALMOST parts off and then make a short threaded mandrel to hold it on a second op.
[14:14:10] <jdh> it doesn't need to be a complete sphere
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[14:14:20] <PetefromTn_> even better
[14:14:23] <jdh> (for the mount, perhaps for your <whatever> it does)
[14:14:57] <skunkworks> then part it off so the top is a little flat...
[14:15:01] <JT-Shop> it's for a motorcycle mount
[14:15:03] <skunkworks> if that works
[14:15:37] <PetefromTn_> Well I cheaped out yesterday...
[14:15:43] <JT-Shop> sounds better than what I had in mind
[14:16:16] * JT-Shop goes back to building hand rails
[14:16:37] <PetefromTn_> I have been wanting to buy that nice five axis stop I have spoken about a couple times here...
[14:16:58] <PetefromTn_> but I always seem to find somewhere else to spend my spare change heh
[14:17:16] <PetefromTn_> so yesterday I started drawing the thing in 3d cad so I can machine one...
[14:17:30] <PetefromTn_> work is slow right now anyways and it will be good practice..
[14:17:54] <PetefromTn_> I should be able to get the main body cut today maybe if things go well.
[14:18:21] <PetefromTn_> worst part is all the little turned parts and the clamp action part for the stop rod itself.
[14:18:57] <jdh> if only you had a cnc lathe
[14:19:00] <PetefromTn_> Hopefully I can make a decent one here and it will serve me well..
[14:19:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah right... would LOVE one..
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[14:19:36] <PetefromTn_> my 12x36 is officially for sale right now on craigslist so who knows..
[14:19:58] <PetefromTn_> in the mean time I have turned thousands of parts manually so not a big deal just time.
[14:20:20] <jdh> there's a 12x36 with stand on local CL for $1200 OBO
[14:20:30] <jdh> but, it's not lathe season yet.
[14:20:40] <PetefromTn_> really they are all really simple parts so CNC might not actually help that much
[14:20:50] <PetefromTn_> BUY IT.. that is a good deal if it is anything like mine.
[14:21:01] <jdh> cnc lathe seems much less useful unless you are doing production runs
[14:21:15] <jdh> (vs. a cnc mill/etc)
[14:22:18] <skunkworks> heh - not with atleast 1 jog wheel...
[14:22:49] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know... I manual mill with the CIncinatti all the time LOL
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[14:23:29] <PetefromTn_> Lathe might be slightly less adaptable due mostly to feel but hey I use the power feeds almost constantly so who knows.
[14:23:40] <skunkworks> cradek likes jog switches - then set the jog speed at what you want to cut at..
[14:24:26] <PetefromTn_> we had a discussion awhile back about implementing some kinda jog lock feature..
[14:24:28] <cradek> with touchy, you can turn the wheel to tweak the jog speed DURING a continuous jog
[14:24:38] <PetefromTn_> The Haas machines have this and it is REAL handy.
[14:24:39] <cradek> it's really excellent
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[14:25:37] <PetefromTn_> I would love that feature on the mill for facing off parts and manual operations. Right now I have to hold down the button on the keyboard and try to NOT hit the other arrow buttons local to it.
[14:25:59] <cradek> if you want locking jogs, you could just use non-momentary switches
[14:27:02] <PetefromTn_> seems like a keyboard button like CNtrl or something while pressing the directional button would work then press again to release.
[14:27:58] <PetefromTn_> then you can tie the physical buttons to the keyboard buttons if you want later on.
[14:30:18] <cradek> I think if you want that, you oughta use real switches
[14:30:40] <PetefromTn_> what if I just have a little table top CNC router or something?
[14:30:47] <cradek> we've had accidentally-locking jogs before, by pressing combinations of keys, and it's a bad thing
[14:31:02] <cradek> this would be reintroducing that on purpose
[14:31:15] <PetefromTn_> how is it a bad thing?
[14:31:31] <cradek> people don't expect it, and it's crashy
[14:31:53] <syyl> jog buttons are the most-crashy-thing in our shop
[14:32:06] <cradek> yep
[14:32:14] <PetefromTn_> wow that is surprising that people don't expect something that takes a concerted effort of pressing TWO buttons at the same time.
[14:32:20] <syyl> jog with full traverse (70m/min) sideways up to the vice
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[14:32:31] <syyl> sheared the facemill right of the arbor
[14:32:35] <jdh> me typing mdi commands repeatedly are the most crashy thing
[14:33:14] <PetefromTn_> anyone can crash a machine doing about anything but I know when we were working in the shop on those HAAS machines this feature got a LOT of use.
[14:33:16] <syyl> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/IMAG0302.jpg
[14:33:17] <cradek> PetefromTn_: you *just* said you have to be careful to not press two buttons at the same time
[14:33:20] <syyl> wasnt that loud...
[14:33:25] <syyl> ;)
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[14:33:41] <cradek> syyl: wow, did it toast the spindle?
[14:33:45] <syyl> naaa
[14:33:56] <syyl> its kinda sturdy machine
[14:33:57] <PetefromTn_> what I meant was the two buttons that are CLOSE to each other like the arrow keys for X and Y.
[14:34:00] <syyl> and the spindle was turning
[14:34:50] <syyl> http://www.maschinen-kistner.de/tl_files/Produkte/Bearbeitungszentren/DMG_DMC_75_V_linear/JPEG/Werkzeugmaschinen_Kistner_DMG_DMC_75V_Linear_101.JPG
[14:34:58] <syyl> the spindle of that thing is kinda robust
[14:35:29] <syyl> but the rapids can realy be frightening
[14:36:57] <PetefromTn_> hell I almost crashed using the MPG a couple times but that is the nature of the beast...ME! I still say that having some sort of keyboard jog lock that is NOT easily enabled with adjacent keys would be nice. How did it work before when you say it was a bad thing?
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[14:44:24] <cradek> y'know, you could just define a very long increment, then you could stop it by hitting escape.
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[14:50:35] <Connor> I'll be setting up a script that will allow you to probe the part.. then run a script that will face mill it based on the dimensions and locations from the probe. :)
[14:55:48] <PetefromTn_> Connor that sounds sweet......too bad I don't have a probe SIGH
[14:56:18] <PetefromTn_> Connor Do you have an oscillyscole?
[14:56:24] <PetefromTn_> scope
[14:56:42] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[14:57:20] <DaViruz> silly scope
[14:57:29] <PetefromTn_> yes exactly
[14:58:15] <ssi>
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[14:59:56] <DaViruz> oh.
[14:59:57] <ssi> jdh: installing motion planner now
[14:59:58] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I have a digital one.
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[15:00:05] <Connor> that works with a PC
[15:00:14] <Connor> why?
[15:00:18] <PetefromTn_> I saw those in the thread recently
[15:00:21] <ssi> jdh: I reset the drive before I started trying to configure it
[15:00:34] <ssi> jdh: but you have to pretty much know everything in the world about the motor before it'll ever work
[15:00:40] <PetefromTn_> I wanted to see about using one to better tune my new servos
[15:01:09] <jdh> ssi: yep. I only have them with parker motors
[15:01:54] <Connor> PetefromTn_: http://www.parallax.com/sites/default/files/downloads/28014-USB-Oscilloscope-Documentation.pdf
[15:01:57] <Connor> that's the one I have.
[15:02:53] <PetefromTn_> interesting.
[15:02:59] <PetefromTn_> how do you like it?
[15:03:09] <Connor> That one isn't available anymore.
[15:03:20] <Connor> It works. I've used it for various things.
[15:03:46] <jdh> rigol or owon for cheap
[15:05:25] <Connor> PetefromTn_: It might not be fast enough.. It's only good up to like 200kHZ
[15:05:45] <Connor> 60 kHZ on Sine waves, 100khZ on Square waves..
[15:06:08] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Hantek-6022BE-2CH-Channel-USB-Auto-Digital-Oscilloscope-20MHz-Bandwidth-/201185875496?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2ed79cd628
[15:06:12] <PetefromTn_> looks interesting.
[15:07:10] <FinboySlick> You young kids with your fancy oscilloscopes. Back in my days, we'd stick the leads to our tongue have to stay on key when we sang the frequency.
[15:07:28] <ssi> jdh: yeah see this doesn't really help me
[15:07:33] <ssi> I have to figure out the motor parameters somehow
[15:07:44] <PetefromTn_> its been so long since I used an oscilloscope in school I don't even remember how LOL
[15:08:21] <PetefromTn_> probably just twist the knobs til something appeared on screen :P
[15:08:58] <jdh> hit 'auto-set'
[15:09:05] <jdh> then work from there
[15:09:08] <PetefromTn_> even better
[15:09:09] <ssi> where is that?
[15:09:26] <ssi> auto-set's not going to do me much good considering that the machine that motion planner is on is not the same machine which is physically connected to the drive
[15:09:32] <ssi> oh you're talking about scopes
[15:09:34] <ssi> bah
[15:09:42] <jdh> auto-set for teh scope
[15:09:48] <PetefromTn_> honestly I was not sure either
[15:09:49] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[15:10:51] <jdh> ssi: you probably have the important parts
[15:11:03] <jdh> other than hall
[15:11:05] <ssi> apparently I don't
[15:11:30] <ssi> there's a thousand motor parameters, and they all have to be set before it'll let you enable the drive
[15:11:46] <jdh> run the wiz for a similar size motor
[15:11:47] <ssi> I put in sane sounding values for the ones I could
[15:11:53] <ssi> and made shit up for the ones I couldn't
[15:11:59] <jdh> then change the obvious ones
[15:12:03] <ssi> then I started working through the TCS faults
[15:12:05] <ssi> got up to this one
[15:12:06] <ssi> GV6K Internal velocity loop gains ≤ 0.
[15:12:09] <ssi> Increase SGVRAT. Recheck DMTKE, DMTJ, LJRAT, DMTD, DVBW, LDAMP.
[15:12:12] <ssi> tried all that
[15:12:14] <ssi> couldn't get beyond it
[15:12:19] <ssi> SGVRAT is at max
[15:12:23] <ssi> all the others are set
[15:12:26] <ssi> set to what, god knows
[15:12:26] <ssi> heh
[15:12:47] <ssi> i could try starting with a similar size motor
[15:13:03] <ssi> but I'd have to somehow figure out which is "similar size"
[15:20:20] <skunkworks> how many volts/amps are the motors?
[15:21:52] <Connor> What kind of glue would someone use to glue a rubber boot to the side of a stepper?
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[15:22:22] <skunkworks> contact cement?
[15:22:34] <skunkworks> (nto rubber cement..)
[15:22:36] <skunkworks> Not
[15:22:46] <SpeedEvil> Zip-tie?
[15:23:29] <ssi> skunkworks: 110V 6.8A at stall
[15:23:29] <Connor> Maybe.. I dunno. I have 2 steppers.. and they have rubber boots with 15-pin d-subs on them.. and nice water tight boot.. well.. on one anyway.. the other isn't attached anymore.
[15:24:52] <skunkworks> ssi, pcw has some nice drives...
[15:25:00] <SpeedEvil> rubber cement seems likely
[15:26:37] <jdh> black rtv
[15:27:22] <jdh> mill a mounting bracket for it that clamps to teh motor
[15:27:54] <SpeedEvil> Try glue on the outside of the boot - gluing a little bit of metal to it first
[15:27:58] <SpeedEvil> And remember - clean first
[15:28:05] <Jymmm> who needs a bracket when you have RTV ?
[15:28:07] <ssi> skunkworks: 8i20?
[15:28:13] <ssi> I hadn't really thought about just getting some of those
[15:29:02] <ssi> I got the motor to spin with the gemini tho
[15:29:06] <jdh> w00t
[15:29:09] <ssi> I used the values for the BE344JJ
[15:29:15] <ssi> the wake and shake stuff is pretty weird
[15:29:26] <jdh> grind for a rev?
[15:29:29] <skunkworks> well - I am sure you can get them to work..
[15:30:38] <ssi> just wiggles back and forth a couple times
[15:30:40] <ssi> and squeaks
[15:30:41] <ssi> heh
[15:31:25] <ssi> skunkworks: I think these drives will work great if I can get all the motor parameters on the fanuc motors
[15:31:34] <ssi> but fanuc is VERY close with their documentation
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[15:35:19] <gammax> Morning All
[15:35:55] <ssi> maybe it would be easier just to get peter's drives :P
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[15:36:07] <jdh> where's the challenge in that
[15:36:25] <jdh> do you want to make chips, or solve hundreds of interrelated issues?
[15:36:34] <ssi> mostly the latter
[15:36:57] <ssi> these parker drives were supposed to be super awesome
[15:37:03] <ssi> but mostly they're just seeming like a huge hassle
[15:37:16] <jdh> they are super awesom, with parker motors
[15:37:16] <ssi> riddle me this:
[15:37:20] <ssi> once it's all set up
[15:37:32] <ssi> do you still have to send DRIVE1 over serial to enable the drive evry time it powers up?
[15:37:35] <ssi> cause that sounds like its own headache
[15:37:37] <jdh> no
[15:37:56] <jdh> it runs a startup program on powerup, you can put whatever you want in there
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[15:40:25] <ssi> PCW_: hi!
[15:40:51] <jdh> make sure you know what MA you have before typing random moves.
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[15:41:09] <CaptHindsight> ssi: are the other Gemini drives ok? Did you just pick the bad one for your first test?
[15:41:19] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I only have one of each at home
[15:41:25] <ssi> the U6 is bad, the U12 is good
[15:41:34] <ssi> I am afraid that all the U6s might be bad
[15:41:38] <ssi> but I don't have them here to test
[15:42:01] <ssi> the U6s were sold as "I can't test them, as is"
[15:42:10] <ssi> which probably means "I know these are bad, buy my junk"
[15:42:44] <jdh> I spent days trying to set up a 2axis system with a compumotor 6k4. After a lot of frustration, I found the 6K wouldn't actually talk to one of the drives
[15:43:08] <ssi> anyway here's where I am:
[15:43:32] <ssi> using the BE344JJ motor parameters, only thing I changed was encoder res
[15:43:47] <jdh> ERES12000 ?
[15:43:49] <ssi> in DMODE13 (autorun), it'll wiggle the motor then turn it about 1rps
[15:43:49] <ssi> yes
[15:44:06] <jdh> that's all autorun does
[15:44:12] <ssi> yes I know
[15:44:16] <ssi> it's turning the wrong way I think
[15:44:17] <ssi> but that's ok
[15:44:28] <jdh> as long as it always turns teh wrong way
[15:44:32] <ssi> the manual says next to put it in DMODE12 and command a 1 revolution move
[15:44:41] <ssi> when I do that, I can't get it to enable the drive
[15:44:49] <ssi> and then if I try to go back to 13 and enable, it won't
[15:44:52] <ssi> unless I do a reset first
[15:45:24] <jdh> what kind of reset?
[15:45:27] <ssi> RESET
[15:45:32] <jdh> oh
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[15:45:55] <ssi> same reset that you have to do after changing motor parameters
[15:46:11] <jdh> motor params are not wiped though?
[15:46:14] <ssi> correct
[15:46:20] <ssi> that's FRS or something like that
[15:47:54] <jdh> if you skip the auto-run, will it move?
[15:47:58] <ssi> nope
[15:48:01] <ssi> won't enable
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[15:48:20] <ssi> my suspicion is that it's complaining about hall state
[15:48:25] <jdh> dhall?
[15:48:30] <ssi> DHALL is set to 1
[15:48:32] <ssi> doesn't seem to help
[15:48:37] <ssi> it still shows up as a fault in TASX
[15:48:47] <ssi> Bit 21: Bad Hall State YES
[15:48:49] <jdh> I think you need a rev regardless
[15:48:51] <ssi> *DHALL1
[15:49:22] <ssi> so I just did a reset
[15:49:25] <ssi> and autorun
[15:49:26] <ssi> it's still running
[15:49:31] <ssi> and tasxf reports no bad hall state
[15:49:45] <CaptHindsight> yeah, what i was wondering if it would just disable the error or if it would ignore HALL altogether
[15:50:03] <CaptHindsight> autorun works even if the HALL and encoder is borked
[15:50:12] <ssi> then as soon as I switch to dmode12
[15:50:17] <ssi> tasxf starts reporting bad hall state
[15:50:18] <jdh> I don't think autorun works without the encoder
[15:50:20] <ssi> and drive won't enable
[15:50:23] <ssi> I have the encoder
[15:50:48] <ssi> so I guess my next step is to try to get the hall converter working
[15:50:52] <CaptHindsight> I had a motor that was dropped during shipment and bent the motor shaft just enough to get the encoder disc to scrape the sensor
[15:51:02] <ssi> but I really really really need to get proper motor parameters
[15:51:11] <ssi> in autorun, it squeaks slightly as it's turning
[15:51:44] <jdh> I think they need the hall for the first rev
[15:51:50] <CaptHindsight> autorun always worked but as the sensors lens got scratched more and more the motor would go more and more crazy during movements
[15:52:04] <ssi> well the manual claims that it can run without hall, using wake and shake
[15:52:08] <ssi> which is what autorun is doing
[15:52:08] <Connor> jdh: I think that's what Wake and Shake suppose to do..
[15:52:33] <Connor> Maybe it's not waking and shaking enough. :)
[15:52:38] <ssi> it's not even trying
[15:52:42] <ssi> it won't let me enable the drive in mode 12
[15:53:15] <Connor> Think the Driver manufacture might offer some phone support?
[15:53:22] <ssi> it's possible
[15:53:34] <ssi> the manual says "if you have trouble configuring a non-parker motor, call tech support"
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[15:53:43] <Connor> Just don't tell'm you got it second hand.
[15:53:45] <ssi> :)
[15:54:04] <Connor> They may very well have the parameters on file..
[15:54:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.parkermotion.com/manuals/gemini/Gemini_GV_HW_Install_Guide.pdf page 82 has the HALL troubleshooting info
[15:54:25] <ssi> CaptHindsight: yeah I know, but right now it's just THALL7 because there's no hall hooked up at all
[15:54:28] <ssi> NO HALL ATALL
[15:54:40] <CaptHindsight> yes, i know
[15:54:55] <CaptHindsight> it might have a work around for not having HALL
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[15:55:07] <ssi> no, it doesn't
[15:55:14] <ssi> just goes through how to make sure it's hooked up correctly
[15:55:22] <ssi> which'll be handy when I get into my cpld lookup :)
[15:56:06] <CaptHindsight> there is some note about mode 12 only working with certain parameters loaded
[15:56:11] <Connor> My god.. I can't believe how much control tech goes into making a freaking motor turn...
[15:56:23] <zeeshan> heidenhain tnc 155.. is a controller
[15:56:28] <zeeshan> would the servo drives be part of it?
[15:57:10] <ssi> zeeshan: if you can find me datasheets on that motor, it would greatly enhance my life :)
[15:57:13] <CaptHindsight> well they are controlled to within arc seconds
[15:57:14] <jdh> However, it is only disabled after the first successful Hall transistion and commutation is taken over by the encoder.
[15:57:19] <zeeshan> there is a main processor board which is responsible for "keyboard, leds, user program intrepreeterd, generation of plc program address, transfer of i/o states between plc interface board, se board, and plc ram"
[15:57:24] <zeeshan> ssi i asked, he will get back to me
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[15:58:11] <zeeshan> theres another board "clp-processor" which is responsible for "interpolation calculations, instaneous positions, vdu control, demand speed values to dac"
[15:58:18] <zeeshan> so im assuming this CLP-processor board is the "servo drive"
[15:58:29] <zeeshan> and also contains the interpolator for the linear scales
[15:58:43] <ssi> I think that's probably wrong
[15:59:33] <zeeshan> oh nm
[15:59:47] <zeeshan> its some sort of hardware that basically is responsible for calculations only
[16:00:31] <zeeshan> looks like a headache :D
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[16:01:27] <ssi> ok I emailed parker
[16:01:33] <ssi> I think I've done all I can do right now
[16:01:39] <ssi> gonna go fetch my chip trays from the powder coater
[16:01:40] <Connor> Why not call ? :)
[16:01:48] <ssi> I'm not big on the phone
[16:01:52] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1cvUexa61oWa parker HALL state table
[16:02:52] <CaptHindsight> ssi: are you going to detect the Zero Crossings and generate HALL signals with a CPLD?
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[16:03:47] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I'm going to read the 4 bit commutation track off the fanuc encoder and generate hall signals from them
[16:04:22] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/LgZffuA.jpg
[16:04:23] <ssi> it'll be a little lumpy because the states don't correlate exactly
[16:04:25] <Connor> Is the fanuc encoder outputing normal encoder .. or you have to translate that too ?
[16:04:26] <ssi> but it'll be better than nothing
[16:04:27] <CaptHindsight> sounds good
[16:04:28] <zeeshan> can you guys tell by this picture
[16:04:32] <zeeshan> of its a servo or stepper
[16:04:33] <ssi> the quarature tracks are normal
[16:04:42] <Connor> Well, that's good
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[16:04:56] <Connor> so, You just need something for the hall sensors then..
[16:05:13] <ssi> yeah, and that part I can handle
[16:05:26] <Connor> zeeshan: That looks like a servo to me
[16:05:33] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: you never really know but the small pack on the back is probably an encoder so it might be a servo
[16:05:59] <Connor> Could be one of those Hybrid stepper/servo's we talked about last night..
[16:06:08] <zeeshan> its an old machine
[16:06:15] <zeeshan> you think that technology existed back then? :P
[16:06:23] <Connor> How old ?
[16:06:24] <ssi> my punch press has "Slo-syn steppers" on it
[16:06:27] <zeeshan> 1980 something
[16:06:30] <ssi> anyone know anything about those?
[16:06:32] <ssi> it's a 70s machine
[16:06:40] <zeeshan> old enough to use tape drives
[16:06:41] <zeeshan> haha
[16:06:41] <Connor> Could be a resolver on the back.
[16:06:50] <jdh> slo-syn is still arond
[16:06:53] <Connor> what kind of machine is it ?
[16:06:59] <zeeshan> mikron wf21c
[16:07:05] <zeeshan> i can't find any electrical specs on it
[16:07:09] <ssi> I'll take a pic oft he motors when I get down there this afternoon
[16:07:11] <ssi> they're old as dirt
[16:07:11] <zeeshan> i just know what controller it uses
[16:07:18] <ssi> anyway I'm gonna get on the road
[16:07:21] <ssi> thanks for the help folks
[16:07:21] <Connor> What is a slo-syn ?
[16:07:31] <jdh> blue motors?
[16:07:35] <ssi> yea I think so
[16:07:53] <jdh> pretty normal
[16:08:02] <zeeshan> im really hoping
[16:08:05] <zeeshan> the big connector is just 4 pins
[16:08:14] <zeeshan> not 223490o312820 pins
[16:08:19] <jdh> arent' there 2 cables going in to teh big one?
[16:08:24] <zeeshan> yea it looks like it
[16:08:33] <zeeshan> 1 might big the power/phases
[16:08:44] <zeeshan> 1 might be something like a temp sensor?
[16:08:46] <zeeshan> hopefully.
[16:09:29] <zeeshan> if its got a resolver
[16:09:36] <zeeshan> is it a "Dc motor (brushed"
[16:09:36] <zeeshan> )
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[16:11:01] <jdh> cable on teh back part looks small
[16:11:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/catalog/29067-1.jpg Guess what type of motor?
[16:13:17] <zeeshan> http://www.mullermachines.com/MachineImages/Large/17162_1.jpg
[16:13:17] <Connor> Some sort of outboard runner..
[16:13:19] <zeeshan> i still dont understand
[16:13:26] <zeeshan> how the control cabinet is that BIG
[16:13:35] <zeeshan> the green cabinet hiding behind the machine
[16:13:38] <zeeshan> right side
[16:13:47] <zeeshan> i asked the guy to hook me up with pics of its inside, but i didnt get any
[16:14:03] <zeeshan> i need to move that pos cabinet
[16:21:03] <Connor> zeeshan: Oh, You've not got that machine yet?
[16:21:08] <zeeshan> fridayt
[16:21:16] <zeeshan> picking up the flatbed thrusday
[16:21:19] <zeeshan> then its a long journey :D
[16:21:26] <Connor> HOw much ?
[16:21:37] <zeeshan> 2000
[16:21:48] <zeeshan> + about 700 in shpping by the time i have it back
[16:21:55] <Connor> What is that large green looking pole in the background ?
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[16:22:07] <zeeshan> tool changer
[16:22:18] <Connor> you have more pictures?
[16:22:38] <zeeshan> not of mine
[16:22:38] <zeeshan> but
[16:22:44] <zeeshan> http://wild-maschinen.de/img/mach/ex/4ffe11d3d33fd850c6999e179eee677b.jpg
[16:23:02] <zeeshan> its a nice and compact machine
[16:23:23] <mozmck> looks nice!
[16:23:47] <zeeshan> main machine is anywhere from 4800-5800lb (variable weights online)
[16:23:52] <Connor> It have a quill ?
[16:23:54] <zeeshan> and that green cabinet is like 100lb
[16:23:56] <zeeshan> er 1000lb
[16:24:00] <mozmck> what model?
[16:24:02] <zeeshan> connor not sure
[16:24:07] <zeeshan> mikron wf21c
[16:24:16] <zeeshan> 16"x16"x16" capacity travel
[16:24:25] <zeeshan> i wanted 20, but this will do
[16:24:30] <Connor> head moves in and out... table up and down and left and right..
[16:24:37] <zeeshan> connor yes
[16:24:43] <zeeshan> its a little weird
[16:24:50] <zeeshan> but i bet rigid as hell
[16:25:03] <Connor> does it have a ATC ?
[16:25:04] <zeeshan> typical swiss/german over-engineering
[16:25:10] <zeeshan> no
[16:25:26] <zeeshan> i might adapt one
[16:25:27] <mozmck> Seems like I've seen much larger machines where the head moves in and out.
[16:25:59] <zeeshan> i gtg =/
[16:26:05] <mozmck> over-engineering? maybe for the rep-rap crowd :)
[16:27:35] <Connor> Okay, So I'm still debating on weather I want to kill power to the steppers, or simply use the enable/disable like I currently doing..
[16:28:09] <Connor> On ESTOP and LinuxCNC Machine On/Off
[16:29:52] <Connor> What i need to do is draw out the schematic of my current setup.. using pport and the C10 BOB and confer with PCW as to the best way to wire the 7i76 up.
[16:32:05] <Connor> PCW pcw_home_ What happens to Field I/O pins that are active high if the 7i76 looses field power and then regains it?
[16:32:40] <SpeedEvil> Connor: A more powerful explosion than you could possibly imagine.
[16:35:43] <pcw_home_> if the 7I76 loses field power and VIN the processor will be reset and all outputs will be disabled
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[16:36:34] <pcw_home_> if the 7I76 loses just field power (VIN still there) you will get a UV fault and the outputs will be disabled
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[16:37:51] <Connor> Okay... so, the current way my setup works is thusly.. the C10 has as Enable/Disable. I have a charge pump, being fed from the C10.. one side of the Charge pump relay toggles the SSR for the spindle. The other side sends 5v to the Disable on the stepper drives.
[16:38:08] <Connor> and disables the C10
[16:38:49] <pcw_home_> when 7I76 outputs are disabled you must stop and restart the serial interface to be able to control outputs again
[16:38:52] <Connor> in order to start everything.. I have a external momentary switch.. I push.. which temporarily enables the C10 BOB long enough for the Charge pump to receive the signal from the BOB.
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[16:40:05] <Connor> and somewhere in there.. I have the ESTOP too..
[16:40:39] <Connor> okay.. So Dropping the field power isn't going work as a simple enable / disable then.
[16:41:42] <pcw_home_> No
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[16:42:47] <Connor> In my setup.. after a E-Stop event.. I HAVE to push the external "Push-To-Start" Button to clear the E-Stop. Even if E-stop condition has been cleared.
[16:43:40] <Connor> I like that functionality. Make me think and double check everything before re-enabling..
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[16:47:19] <Jymmm> Connor: So, yours is a auto-reset upon pushing start?
[16:48:43] <Connor> After a Estop event. you re-enable the E-Stop, then push the push-to-start button, which re-energizes the charge BOB allowing it to get the charge-pump signal.. at which point you can then toggle the machine On/Off button in linuxcnc
[16:49:18] <Jymmm> Oh, you don't have a safety relay?
[16:49:34] <Connor> No. I don't have a safety relay.
[16:49:52] <Jymmm> ah.
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[16:53:22] <Jymmm> I encourage their usage.
[16:57:47] <Jymmm> They're really neat once you understand how they work.
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[17:07:03] <Connor> Jymmm: Yea.. well.. I've never been able to find a real explanation on them..
[17:07:22] <Connor> and.. I really don't have room for one now.
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[18:24:14] <JT-Shop> http://www.omron-ap.com/service_support/FAQ/FAQ02481/index.asp
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[18:30:59] <Flipp__> what's the term called for when you take a long, thin, flexible object like a cord, fix one end and twist the other it around it's long axis, and it begins to wrap up on an axis perpendicular to the long one?
[18:32:26] <Jymmm> a mess?
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[18:33:11] <Rab> Flipp__, there is a term for that, but I can't remember what it is! I saw a great video on how curly cords are made that explained the twisting dynamics, maybe look for that.
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[18:34:25] <Jymmm> ah
[18:34:41] <Flipp__> Rab: thanks for the lead. Yeah. I know there's a term for it, and I'm trying to find out what it is... and find ways to prevent it
[18:36:17] <Rab> Flipp__, look up over-under cable winding for stagecraft.
[18:36:20] <archivist> you need to "fix" the twist, I stretch the length, some heat, some will be rotating the individual strands into the bundle (cable/rope making)
[18:36:54] <Tom_itx> yeah you need to spin the strands as many times as you wrap them
[18:36:57] <archivist> see "rope walk" too
[18:37:57] <Jymmm> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/eng99/eng99473.htm
[18:37:59] <Flipp__> well, I'm not sure that's quite what I'm looking for
[18:38:26] <Flipp__> I have a flex shaft (like from a flex-shaft dremel) that, if straight, does not do that weird coiling I'm trying to describe
[18:38:46] <Rab> ahh
[18:38:50] <Flipp__> but if you curve it, it has a tendency to "twist" along another axis than the shaft's
[18:39:04] <Tom_itx> too much torque on it
[18:39:07] <archivist> I twist wires together with a battery drill, but keep under tension, when done stretch the length
[18:39:10] <Tom_itx> or not supported properly...
[18:39:55] <Rab> Flipp__, like this? (But only one twist.) http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WBAhNDOh33A/Teg1cdFa9vI/AAAAAAAABSs/FXGDjb0tI-I/s400/CloueCurlicue.jpg
[18:39:55] <archivist> enclose in a retraining tube
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[18:40:03] <archivist> restraining
[18:40:08] <Flipp__> Tom_itx: likely not supported properly... like, at all
[18:40:33] <Tom_itx> needs to be inside a tube
[18:40:43] <archivist> proper flexible drives are in a tube for that reason
[18:40:53] <Flipp__> rab: close. but imagine a single one of those curls twisting around the "intersection" point (vertical axis in that image)
[18:41:07] <Tom_itx> http://www.mathworks.com/help/physmod/sdl/ref/flexibleshaft.html
[18:41:16] <Flipp__> tom_itx and archivist: true. but won't the tube be subject to that twisting motion as well
[18:41:19] <Flipp__> ?
[18:41:19] <Rab> Flipp__, I know what you mean. Seconding too much torque.
[18:41:23] <Tom_itx> no
[18:41:34] <Tom_itx> not nearly as much as the flex shaft
[18:41:49] <archivist> none really
[18:42:14] <Tom_itx> it will experience small side loads when the inner shaft want's to twist
[18:42:30] <archivist> my dremel flexible drive is tubed
[18:42:44] <Tom_itx> that ^^ appears to be some math for them
[18:42:52] <Jymmm> This is tubed when in a pipe... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Electric-Drain-Cleaner.png
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[18:43:55] <Flipp__> interesting. I'll have to see if I can find a suitable tube to run it through. thanks
[18:44:10] <Tom_itx> nylon may work
[18:44:21] <Tom_itx> brass will work
[18:44:35] <Jymmm> PE tubing from the hardware store
[18:44:40] <Tom_itx> i've seen nylon inserts inside brass tube
[18:44:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.sswt.com/flexshaft_materials.htm
[18:45:50] <Jymmm> Flipp__: what diameter?
[18:45:56] <Tom_itx> 2"
[18:46:00] <Tom_itx> :D
[18:46:11] <Tom_itx> largest ones i've seen are 1/4"
[18:46:21] <Tom_itx> usually 3/16 or 1/4"
[18:46:30] <Tom_itx> weed eaters use 1/4"
[18:47:01] <Flipp__> jymmm: not sure at the moment (shaft is at home), but guessing ~8mm
[18:47:39] <Tom_itx> i'd like to see how they get the square drive crimped on the end of em
[18:48:17] <Jymmm> Flipp__: http://www.homedepot.com/p/DIG-1-2-in-x-50-ft-Poly-Drip-Tubing-B35/100175565
[18:52:03] <Flipp__> cool, thanks. I think I'll swing by there later today to grab some
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[18:54:24] <Tom_itx> what's it for?
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[19:58:22] <CaptHindsight> oh no's! First lousy printers now lousy micro-factories https://github.com/firepick1/FireREST/wiki
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[20:00:33] <ReadError> hey now
[20:00:38] <ReadError> firepick is gonna be sweet
[20:02:09] <Jymmm> Yeah, like High Fructose Corn Syrup.
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[20:04:24] <JT-Shop> one way to clean off your table is start welding up hand rails
[20:05:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: then let the wind vlow away the ashes of everything that caught on fire?
[20:05:14] <Jymmm> blow*
[20:05:29] <CaptHindsight> Linuxcnc just needs the machine vision for pick-n-place
[20:05:40] <Jymmm> vision?
[20:05:47] <_methods> opencv
[20:05:49] <Jymmm> oh opticl, nm
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[20:05:55] <Jymmm> optical*
[20:06:50] <CaptHindsight> ReadError: I'm not trolling or trying to start a flame war but what am I missing when I see these toy machines?
[20:09:24] <ReadError> CaptHindsight, its an open source pick-n-place machine
[20:09:29] <ReadError> shitty chinese ones cost 4k
[20:10:02] <mozmck> They have to be good - they use lots of modern buzzwords! rest, json, html5... :)
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[20:12:57] <ssi> cnc2.0
[20:12:59] <ssi> lul
[20:13:19] <ssi> you know, if I were a smart man, i would have grabbed the 1hp vfd off the wall before I came down here
[20:13:23] <ssi> now I may be stuck
[20:14:01] <FinboySlick> what scares me a bit more is the AR15 auto-mill... Is that made with linuxcnc?
[20:14:31] <CaptHindsight> i didn't see the controller but it smells of raprap
[20:14:50] <mozmck> scares you?
[20:14:52] <ssi> yeah it probbaly is raprap :P
[20:15:02] <FinboySlick> rap rap sounds more like full auto ;)
[20:15:24] <FinboySlick> mozmck: DHS will put us all on lists!
[20:15:33] <ssi> let 'em
[20:15:46] <mozmck> oh, they probably have everyone with a brain on their list anyhow.
[20:15:58] <ssi> anyone who thinks that we ought to ban manufacturing in order to prevent people from doing something that's never been illegal is an idiot
[20:15:59] <FinboySlick> admitedly, I'm pro gun too so I'm there already.
[20:16:07] <CaptHindsight> https://ghostgunner.net/faq.html
[20:16:43] <CaptHindsight> "The plug-and-play PCB connects between existing Arduino and gshield boards,"
[20:16:58] <ssi> "What end mills (a.k.a. 'drill bits') are accepted?
[20:17:00] <Connor> ssi Stuck ?
[20:17:02] <ssi> why are these people so stupid
[20:17:20] <ssi> Connor: I want to hook up the coolant pump and start washing out the machine
[20:17:25] <ssi> the vfd I have is 1/4hp
[20:17:29] <ssi> and it's a bit too small for this pump
[20:17:35] <ssi> I just tried to run it, and it won't start
[20:17:42] <ssi> I'm taking a little break, then I'm gonna try to tweak the vfd parameters
[20:17:48] <ssi> it's currently set to 50hz max for one thing :P
[20:19:07] <CaptHindsight> they sold out the first 100 Ghost Gunners
[20:19:48] <jdh> to people who can't use existing $50 jigs for their 80% uppers
[20:20:04] <paul_liebenberg> hi, I had a computer die a few months ago. I am trying to get back up and running on a new computer. I have linuxcnc 2.6.3 installed, but having some limit switch issues. when I start up in axis, I turn on and immediately there is a joint 0 and joint 2 limit switch error. The display shows the limit switch symbols lit up on the DRO for those 2 axes. pushing the limit switch causes the symbol to go away and if I keep the
[20:20:04] <paul_liebenberg> switch depressed I can turn on with no alerts until I release the switch.
[20:20:06] <FinboySlick> ssi: why does your coolant pump need a vfd? I always sort of assumed that those ran at a set speed in most setups.
[20:20:10] <ssi> when I get the vmc running I'm going to mill a thousand AR lowers just to be an asshole
[20:20:11] <CaptHindsight> it appears to be the case :)
[20:20:24] <ssi> FinboySlick: because it's a three phase motor, and I only have single phase power :/
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[20:20:39] <jdh> ssi: you don't need to mill a thousand lowers
[20:21:01] <jdh> paul: sounds like your switches got inverted
[20:21:20] <ssi> jdh: that's true, I'm already there
[20:21:39] <paul_liebenberg> How do they get inverted? and why only 2 of 3?
[20:22:25] <_methods> ghostgunner lol
[20:22:31] <_methods> you can buy a $50 jig
[20:22:46] <ssi> _methods: the whole thing is a stupid publicity stunt
[20:22:50] <_methods> a fool and his money soon have a 3d printer
[20:23:07] <_methods> yeah that kid is a clown
[20:24:09] <CaptHindsight> quick way to make $50K
[20:24:09] <ssi> man I'm so glad I have a couch and internet in my hangar now :D
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[20:24:46] <jdh> paul: no clue. try changing your ping to/from _not
[20:24:46] <CaptHindsight> 100 systems at $1-1.2K that cost him ~$500ea
[20:25:07] <ssi> CaptHindsight: srsly
[20:25:15] <balestrino> where i can buy mesa cards in EU?
[20:25:49] <paul_liebenberg> jdh that would be in my hal file?
[20:26:02] <cpresser> balestrino: got mine from cncmonster.at
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[20:26:43] <jdh> yes.
[20:27:07] <cpresser> balestrino: http://www.shop.cncmonster.de/LinuxCNC/FPGA-Karten/PCI:::84_94_95.html
[20:27:10] <Connor> PCW you there ?
[20:28:02] <CaptHindsight> oh wait he sold 500 at $1199 to 1299
[20:28:03] <PCW> Yes
[20:28:18] <CaptHindsight> so he's making closer to $250K for this stunt
[20:28:35] <CaptHindsight> https://ghostgunner.net/preorder.html
[20:29:18] <CaptHindsight> and has another 108 orders on deposit of $250ea
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[20:32:03] <paul_liebenberg> ok, I am lost, is it ok to post my hal file here?
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[20:33:25] <skunkworks> paul_liebenberg: pastebin.com
[20:33:46] <paul_liebenberg> thanks.
[20:34:58] <paul_liebenberg> http://pastebin.com/2FAFhwx3
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[20:51:14] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight that software you've been looking at for object recognition looks pretty cool
[20:51:35] <Tom_itx> how hard will it be to integrate into linuxcnc?
[20:52:04] <CaptHindsight> camview/camunits is a dead project
[20:52:15] <CaptHindsight> OpenCV is very active
[20:52:47] <Tom_itx> that thing skunkworks was playing with...
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[20:53:07] <CaptHindsight> the fireSight thing is OpenCV with Java https://github.com/firepick1/FireSight/wiki/firesight
[20:53:16] <Tom_itx> yeah that's it
[20:53:20] <CaptHindsight> we can use OpenCV with linuxcnc
[20:53:46] <CaptHindsight> using Python
[20:54:34] <CaptHindsight> the core imaging algorithms go back to the 60 and 70's
[20:54:48] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/Screenshot%20from%202014-10-07%2011:27:48.png
[20:54:57] <skunkworks> that was python and opencv
[20:55:07] <skunkworks> just goofing around
[20:56:07] <CaptHindsight> someone on the ML posted their approach with Python and HAL
[20:57:08] <CaptHindsight> what you basically end up doing for vision guided homing is find the object and its edge and then count pixels
[20:58:20] <CaptHindsight> each pixel will represent some distance
[20:58:32] <ssi> argh
[20:58:37] <ssi> I think there's actually something wrong with the pump
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[21:09:11] <Connor> ssi: That's not good. What makes you think something wrong with it >?
[21:13:00] <Deejay> gn8
[21:13:03] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight is pixel resolution fine enough for homing?
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[21:13:23] <Tom_itx> maybe good enough for pick n place but i wonder about homing...
[21:13:42] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: depends on the camera and lens
[21:14:13] <Tom_itx> the more pixels the longer it will take to capture and read
[21:14:22] <CaptHindsight> I use it on one application with a zoom lens down to 5um accuracy
[21:15:37] <CaptHindsight> cheap $40 usb webcam vs $10K GbEthernet camera and microscope lens
[21:15:56] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:16:39] <CaptHindsight> but cameras have come down in price so far
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[21:17:38] <CaptHindsight> I see lots of used machine vision cameras on fleabay for $100-300 and used lenses for <$100
[21:19:57] <tjtr33> is mha ok? his irc logs are down since 05oct2014
[21:20:31] <tjtr33> psha logs are continuous
[21:20:54] <Tom_itx> zlog
[21:20:54] <zlog> Tom_itx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2014-10-07.html
[21:21:30] <Tom_itx> we got this channel covered!
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[21:22:00] <tjtr33> thx Tom_itx , bookmarked ( but still wish best for Michael )
[21:22:14] <Tom_itx> yup
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[21:25:03] <skunkworks> wow - mirroring the image of the web cam makes things a lot easier
[21:25:39] <skunkworks> (holding things in front...
[21:25:41] <skunkworks> )
[21:26:18] <ssi> Connor: the rear bearing of the pump is locked up tight as a drum
[21:26:25] <ssi> rusted shut
[21:26:32] <Connor> oh man
[21:26:36] <ssi> I finally got the back cover off but I had to beat the hell out of it
[21:26:41] <ssi> bearing is still on the shaft
[21:26:48] <ssi> I may or may not be able to salvage this pump
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[21:54:04] <ssi> I got it freed up enough that the motor will run
[21:54:09] <ssi> but it sounds HORRIBLE
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[21:59:14] <_methods> bearings shot?
[22:00:21] <ssi> that's the understatement of the year
[22:00:27] <ssi> the rear bearing is solid rust
[22:00:31] <ssi> I managed to get it freed up enough to turn
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[22:08:14] <CaptHindsight> red oxide lubricant
[22:08:28] * JT-Shop attempts to write a G code file to turn a 17mm ball from 3/4" round stock
[22:09:50] <ssi> JT-Shop: nice :D
[22:10:07] <ssi> shouldn't be too hard
[22:10:34] <JT-Shop> yea, I'll draw it up in Qcad but I don't have it installed on this box
[22:10:48] <JT-Shop> I need my Wheezy box over here now
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[22:16:59] <JT-Shop> brb I think
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[22:29:22] <JT-Shop> brought to you by Debian Wheezy
[22:30:30] <Tom_itx> like a ball bearing or a ball end?
[22:31:04] <JT-Shop> me?
[22:32:01] <Tom_itx> yeah U
[22:32:12] <JT-Shop> ball end
[22:32:17] <JT-Shop> for a GPS mount
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[22:33:04] <Tom_itx> like a .375 stem?
[22:33:28] <JT-Shop> 17mm ball with 1/4" stud
[22:33:34] <zeeshan> ssi
[22:33:37] <zeeshan> whats your motor code again
[22:35:44] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, how's the store goin?
[22:36:03] <JT-Shop> starting to slow down for the winter I assume
[22:36:12] <Tom_itx> you gonna thread the stem?
[22:36:35] <JT-Shop> I'm thinking of threading the ball and screwing it on a stud
[22:37:04] <Tom_itx> machine it like this: =O- with the stem facing out
[22:37:14] <Tom_itx> and thread it
[22:37:40] <Tom_itx> back cut the other side a bit and gradually bring your cutoff in for a smooth top
[22:38:36] <JT-Shop> the stud is steel and the ball is 6061 as I have to put a bend in the stud
[22:38:47] <Tom_itx> it won't matter if you cut down the other side because you're gonna thin it for the next stem anyway
[22:38:53] <Tom_itx> oh
[22:38:57] <zeeshan> ssi
[22:38:58] <zeeshan> www.centroidcnc.com/downloads/CENTROID_Fanuc_Retrofit_Manual.pdf
[22:39:01] <zeeshan> my friend linked me to that
[22:39:04] <zeeshan> page 71
[22:39:09] <zeeshan> for the pinouts
[22:39:18] <zeeshan> and the last page of that pdf is great
[22:39:22] <zeeshan> cause it shows you the family of the motors
[22:39:26] <zeeshan> yours is the fanuc 5 series
[22:39:28] <zeeshan> old
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[22:45:07] <JT-Shop> crap, I need to make an XZ arc generator now
[22:46:19] <Tom_itx> heh
[22:46:45] <Tom_itx> you could put my lathe package to work
[22:47:36] <Tom_itx> it gets little use
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[22:51:30] <CaptHindsight> http://firepick1.github.io/firerest/html/delta/ Delat machine simulator
[22:51:36] <CaptHindsight> Delta
[22:53:37] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: here's how they calibrate with firepick http://firepick1.github.io/firerest/html/cal/
[22:55:28] <CaptHindsight> looks like their calibrate is Zero or Home
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[23:24:04] <Connor> ssi: So the motor is good.. the bearing is the problem..
[23:24:12] <Connor> ssi: Can you replace it ?
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