#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-09-26

[00:00:02] <Xetrov`> thought his project looks interesting too
[00:00:31] <bnmorgan> was threatening required? why can't folks just discuss like adults anymore
[00:01:04] <CaptHindsight> discuss makes you look weak :)
[00:01:18] <bnmorgan> threatening might get your @$$ kicked.
[00:02:23] <CaptHindsight> bullies tend to pick their victims well
[00:02:47] <Jymmm> what threats?
[00:02:49] <CaptHindsight> it wasn't that dramatic, it's been a few years already
[00:02:57] <skunkworks> love this machine.. http://imagebin.org/320607
[00:03:15] <bnmorgan> odd
[00:03:16] <bnmorgan> The site ahead contains malware
[00:03:16] <bnmorgan> Attackers currently on imagebin.org might attempt to install dangerous programs on your computer that steal or delete your information (for example, photos, passwords, messages, and credit cards).
[00:03:41] <skunkworks> scary
[00:03:53] <bnmorgan> big red bs stuff....and no option to ignore it and proceed.
[00:03:56] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I think the lawyers didn't threten, just highy influenced
[00:04:16] <skunkworks> Jymmm: whatever - it was effective
[00:04:26] <CaptHindsight> you have to protect your trademark
[00:04:28] <Jymmm> cradek would have to chime in for the fuly story
[00:04:29] <skunkworks> (I like the new name)
[00:04:52] <CaptHindsight> or you lose it in the USA
[00:05:25] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Yes, but I cane have Acme washers, and you can have Acme Cars, and there is no projection necessary
[00:05:37] <Jymmm> protection*
[00:05:44] <bnmorgan> why would you machine inconel without coolant?
[00:05:54] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: per USPTO
[00:06:42] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: who knows in this case, maybe they were under retainer and the lawyer wanted something easy to win points
[00:07:30] <bnmorgan> maybe something to do with ceramic cutter?
[00:07:37] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Nah, it was just a branding thing. They wanted "EMC" to be distinct n the search engines, etc. for storage, not mixed with CNC.
[00:08:01] <CaptHindsight> it's isn't like they screen for personality disorders or douche-iness
[00:08:25] <bnmorgan> i should send them a cease and desist since they are not working with physics or the speed of light.
[00:08:36] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: They had no legal legs, or they would have sent a cease and desist.
[00:08:41] <CaptHindsight> hmm lots of searches still come up with EMC
[00:08:47] <bnmorgan> it shoulldn't be mixed with datahoarding
[00:09:27] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/probing.png
[00:09:42] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how many years it will take for Linuxcnc searches to no longer have EMC links
[00:09:43] <skunkworks> probing 2 holes - twice..
[00:12:01] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: have you tried gmoccapy (sp?) yet? What's easier to modify Axis or gmoccapy?
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[00:12:39] <CaptHindsight> I guess it also depends on your coding skills
[00:13:40] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/stock_index.php
[00:15:57] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: thats all surplus?
[00:16:21] <Tom_itx> yes, i didn't cover it all but that's the bulk of it
[00:16:27] <Rab> Tom_itx, nice, how are prices?
[00:16:33] <Tom_itx> not bad
[00:16:34] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight: no. still an axis user
[00:16:42] <CaptHindsight> they have more than some of the suppliers around here
[00:16:46] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what current $/lb is
[00:16:55] <Tom_itx> some is by the foot
[00:17:38] <zeeshan|2> omg
[00:17:40] <zeeshan|2> all that round aluminum
[00:17:42] <zeeshan|2> I WANT
[00:18:13] <Tom_itx> they used to have a very large round bar but i couldn't find it
[00:18:26] <zeeshan|2> all that delicious metal
[00:18:28] <zeeshan|2> makes me hungry
[00:18:35] <Tom_itx> like 1.5-2' round
[00:18:39] <zeeshan|2> wow
[00:18:48] <CaptHindsight> looks warm and dry there, so it's not the midwest
[00:18:52] <zeeshan|2> i need 4" round
[00:19:00] <Tom_itx> they have it
[00:19:10] <Tom_itx> i got a short piece a while back
[00:19:23] <zeeshan|2> do you remember the size and price
[00:19:27] <Tom_itx> like .75 per cut
[00:19:28] <zeeshan|2> to give me a gauge
[00:19:37] <Tom_itx> no
[00:19:57] <Tom_itx> it was something like 5" for about $10 iirc
[00:20:03] <Tom_itx> maybe a bit more i don't remember
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[00:20:40] <Tom_itx> it's where i got my heatsink for my enclosure
[00:20:56] <CaptHindsight> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/1.jpg
[00:21:20] <Tom_itx> 10" was about all i could find laying around
[00:21:21] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: is that a metal supplier
[00:21:29] <Tom_itx> surplus
[00:21:35] <Tom_itx> i'm sure some is new
[00:21:47] <zeeshan|2> people always tell me go to the scrap yard to find cheaper aluminum off cuts
[00:21:50] <zeeshan|2> or stainless
[00:21:53] <zeeshan|2> but when i go to scrap yards
[00:21:57] <zeeshan|2> its all piles of crap
[00:22:19] <zeeshan|2> so im wondering if there is a specific term for a place like this other than surplus
[00:22:26] <Tom_itx> they used to have bronze, brass & copper but i didn't see any today
[00:22:33] <CaptHindsight> the place near me cuts all the extrusion they get the same day it comes in
[00:22:50] <CaptHindsight> to ~6" pieces
[00:23:05] <XXCoder> wonder if theres places I can buy scrap 8020s
[00:23:21] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: automation places
[00:25:12] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/heatsink_bulk.jpg
[00:25:15] <Tom_itx> i got that there
[00:25:20] <Tom_itx> it was about an 8' piece
[00:25:34] <CaptHindsight> nice profile
[00:25:44] <LeelooMinai> Damn, I wish I had a surpplus like that near me
[00:25:52] <Tom_itx> part of it has geckos mounted to it now
[00:26:17] <CaptHindsight> 1" fins about 1/2" apart?
[00:26:30] <XXCoder> hmm http://www.dogpatch.com/bobp/bobfaq.htm
[00:26:31] <Tom_itx> maybe not quite 1/2"
[00:27:10] <XXCoder> probabout out of date site heh
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[00:27:39] <Tom_itx> need a good workplate for your mill? http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/7.jpg
[00:27:56] <XXCoder> whoa
[00:28:01] <XXCoder> wonder how much that would be
[00:28:06] <Tom_itx> alot
[00:28:19] <XXCoder> 8020 scrap http://stores.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Garage-Sale
[00:31:40] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/460400892/affordable-3d-metal-printer-aurora-labs 1 scam coming up
[00:31:53] <Tom_itx> saw that the other day
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[00:32:47] <CaptHindsight> no pics of the e-beam gun, or really even a good description that it uses one
[00:32:54] <XXCoder> yeah
[00:33:00] <XXCoder> its really lacking
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[00:34:44] <CaptHindsight> and a blurry video
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[00:35:41] <CaptHindsight> looks more like laser sintering in the video
[00:35:56] <CaptHindsight> but that requires a sealed unit
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[00:38:43] <CaptHindsight> and no pics of the actual unit
[00:41:18] <CaptHindsight> a whole printer for the price of a used robot arm
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[00:52:16] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: google king
[00:52:24] <zeeshan|2> please find me the manual for the mikron wf21c
[00:52:24] <zeeshan|2> :P
[00:53:07] <Jymmm> ok, found the manual.
[00:53:12] <zeeshan|2> what!
[00:53:44] <roycroft> wow
[00:53:51] <roycroft> interesting what happens when kids come back to college
[00:54:09] <roycroft> i've been trying to sell an old hp jetdirect 600 since the first of the year
[00:54:13] <roycroft> constantly advertising it on cl
[00:54:19] <roycroft> i didn't even get a nibble until today
[00:54:33] <roycroft> i reposted it today and five people have contacted me already
[00:54:34] <Jymmm> It's in german
[00:55:05] <zeeshan|2> really?
[00:55:08] <roycroft> it must be architecture students, because the university here doesn't have an engineering school
[00:55:10] <zeeshan|2> link please
[00:55:21] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm has taken the google king title
[00:55:41] <zeeshan|2> nice roycroft
[00:55:47] <zeeshan|2> selling stuff is weird osmetimes
[00:55:56] <roycroft> yeah
[00:56:02] <roycroft> it kind of bugs me about this
[00:56:12] <roycroft> i'm not asking a lot of money for it, and i don't really need the money
[00:56:17] <roycroft> but it's big and takes up a lot of space
[00:56:21] <roycroft> i want it gone
[00:56:59] <roycroft> the little stuff sells fast
[00:57:20] <roycroft> this is move-in week
[00:57:28] <roycroft> undergrad and graduate courses start next week
[00:57:42] <roycroft> so i'm pretty sure this is a college bump
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[01:03:50] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: is that a Haas by chance?
[01:03:58] -!- anth0ny_ has quit [Quit: anth0ny_]
[01:04:02] <zeeshan|2> no
[01:04:04] <Jymmm> or bought by haas?
[01:04:05] <zeeshan|2> made by mikron
[01:04:59] <Jymmm> Alright, then somebody is fucking around. one is a haas manual, the other is a parts list for mikron
[01:05:20] <zeeshan|2> doh
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[01:05:30] <zeeshan|2> does the parts list have a diagram
[01:05:32] <zeeshan|2> of the components?
[01:05:38] <zeeshan|2> or just literally a list
[01:05:42] <Jymmm> you wish
[01:05:49] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[01:05:53] <zeeshan|2> im gonna email mikron
[01:05:57] <zeeshan|2> and see if they can hook me up
[01:06:22] <cpresser> it its in german, there are enough ppl here who could help :)
[01:08:35] <CaptHindsight> I'm trying for the DuckDuckGo King title now :)
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[01:13:09] <jdh> seems kind of late in the year for school to start
[01:13:11] <zeeshan|2> i cant find anything
[01:13:28] <zeeshan|2> jdh schools start early sept
[01:14:18] <jdh> 20:57 < roycroft> undergrad and graduate courses start next week
[01:14:26] <zeeshan|2> o
[01:14:41] <jdh> my kids went back mid-august
[01:16:00] <roycroft> it's a weird schedule here
[01:16:06] <roycroft> we're on a quarter system, not semester
[01:16:10] <jdh> where is here?
[01:16:12] <roycroft> and they don't have january off
[01:16:13] <roycroft> oregon
[01:16:20] <jdh> who has january off?
[01:16:28] <roycroft> schools on semesters, generally
[01:16:34] <jdh> none I have heard of
[01:16:39] <roycroft> talking about colleges/universities
[01:16:43] <jdh> me too
[01:16:50] <jdh> I've been to lots of them.
[01:16:57] <roycroft> i grew up in chicago and all the schools around me had january off
[01:17:04] <roycroft> fall semester was early september until christmas
[01:17:17] <roycroft> spring semester was february through early june
[01:17:28] <jdh> here too. spring starts Jan5 though
[01:17:32] <roycroft> and january was off for most folks, but there were some 4-week intensive classes
[01:17:44] <roycroft> now i went to school back in the '70s
[01:17:49] <roycroft> so things may have changed back east
[01:18:14] <roycroft> but that's how it was where i lived back then
[01:19:08] <jdh> was it uphill, both ways?
[01:21:13] <roycroft> we dreamed of having hills to go up to get to school
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[01:28:58] <jdh> I've heard about people that went to school in the 70s
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[01:30:39] <CaptHindsight> well you couldn't spend all your time at the disco
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[01:35:56] <XXCoder> Interesting. http://hackaday.com/2014/09/25/digital-caliper-sacrificed-for-dro-project/
[01:37:57] <jdh> XX: http://tinyurl.com/ltfbfvx
[01:38:29] <XXCoder> interesting. wonder how accurate it can be, and if it can be extended behind orginial length
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[01:39:42] <jdh> I probably have 10 of them. Took a couple to work and compared them to my mituyo. All read the same.
[01:39:57] <jdh> half a thou though.
[01:40:31] <jdh> I don't like the non-auto-off ones
[01:40:49] <roycroft> lots of folks have used those, xxcoder
[01:41:07] <roycroft> there were several discusions of them on the shumatech dro discussion forum a few years ago
[01:41:19] <XXCoder> interesting. thanks
[01:41:40] <roycroft> iirc, folks would remove the battery and replace it with a capacitor
[01:41:54] <zeeshan|2> do you guys know all 4 ways you can measure using a vernier caliper?
[01:41:56] <roycroft> and then powered the things with the dro
[01:42:14] <zeeshan|2> inside / outside feature
[01:42:18] <zeeshan|2> then depth on the very right
[01:42:24] <zeeshan|2> what about the fourth one :P
[01:42:58] <jdh> I don't own any vernier calipers
[01:43:03] <zeeshan|2> wat
[01:43:27] <jdh> just digital ones (somewhat pedantic)
[01:43:38] <zeeshan|2> thats what i mean
[01:43:39] <zeeshan|2> any caliper
[01:43:53] <zeeshan|2> https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/scenario/labman1/vernier1.gif
[01:44:00] <zeeshan|2> those are the 3 mains
[01:44:07] <zeeshan|2> but i recently learned anopther one
[01:44:41] <zeeshan|2> http://d2n4wb9orp1vta.cloudfront.net/resources/images/cdn/cms/MMS_1009_GagingTips_Step.jpg
[01:44:47] <zeeshan|2> you put it like that
[01:44:48] <zeeshan|2> to measure a slot
[01:44:51] <roycroft> there's two ways to measure depth
[01:44:51] <zeeshan|2> or a step
[01:44:55] <roycroft> is that what you're getting at?
[01:44:57] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: yea :P
[01:45:12] <zeeshan|2> ive never even considered that way
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[01:45:56] <zeeshan|2> like when im measuring stickout of a vise
[01:46:03] <zeeshan|2> i always used the right most side to measure depth
[01:46:08] <zeeshan|2> but its inherently unstable
[01:46:21] <zeeshan|2> i started using the left end its a lot more repeatable
[01:46:27] <zeeshan|2> (for a caliper)
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[01:56:21] <toastydeath> haha yeah
[01:56:33] <toastydeath> any time you can avoid using the depth probe and opt for the step, use the step
[01:56:44] <zeeshan|2> is that comon knowledge?
[01:56:53] <zeeshan|2> cause ive never seen anyone use a caliper like that
[01:57:12] <toastydeath> I'm not sure - every machinist i've met has known about it, but it's virtually unknown in the amateur/hobby world
[01:57:20] <toastydeath> there are a lot of tools and tricks like that
[01:58:17] <zeeshan|2> this is why its good to hang out on the manufacturing floor!
[01:58:17] <XXCoder> ohh yes. I was thinking rthere was methoid using end but couldnt think of how
[01:58:19] <zeeshan|2> and observe people
[01:58:42] <zeeshan|2> i try to keep an open mind
[02:01:48] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[02:01:50] <toastydeath> hitting stuck bolts with a drift punch
[02:02:07] <toastydeath> wd-40 can be outperformed by vegetable oil with 30% acetone in it
[02:02:37] <zeeshan|2> lol
[02:03:21] <XXCoder> but is it cheapeR?
[02:03:42] <zeeshan|2> wd40 is pretty expensive
[02:03:50] <ssi> hrm
[02:04:15] <zeeshan|2> still deciding?
[02:04:50] <ssi> you know
[02:04:57] <ssi> at this point it's mostly about where the money's gonna come from
[02:05:04] <ssi> and it's stupid and entirely psychological
[02:05:22] <roycroft> wd-40 is like $10/gallon, iirc
[02:05:27] <roycroft> it's not that expensive
[02:05:40] <XXCoder> its pressured cans thats bit more money
[02:05:41] <roycroft> unless you buy it in little aerosol cans
[02:05:49] <roycroft> which is not a smart thing to do
[02:06:00] <jdh> liquid is better anyway.
[02:06:03] <XXCoder> roy pressured ones is useful but not when you need lots
[02:06:11] <roycroft> i have some cans with shrader valves on them
[02:06:17] <zeeshan|2> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/wd-40-3785-litres-bulk/985861
[02:06:19] <zeeshan|2> 30bux
[02:06:20] <jdh> considering wd40 is pretty sucky for most things
[02:06:21] <zeeshan|2> exp!
[02:06:22] <roycroft> i can fill them about 1/3 full of some liquid
[02:06:26] <roycroft> pressurize them
[02:06:33] <roycroft> and they work great
[02:06:35] <zeeshan|2> ssi dont get something that'll stress u out
[02:06:42] <zeeshan|2> another deal will pop up
[02:06:43] <roycroft> wd40 is awesome for machining aluminium
[02:06:48] <XXCoder> no shit
[02:06:57] <XXCoder> I used wd40 with cnc router
[02:06:59] <ssi> wd40 takes cosmoline off like you wouldn't believe
[02:07:00] <jdh> that's about the only thing it is useful for.
[02:07:06] <zeeshan|2> really?
[02:07:09] <zeeshan|2> i gotta try that
[02:07:12] <ssi> get a brand new machine that's coated in cosmoline, spray it with wd and it just runs off
[02:07:15] <zeeshan|2> i tried soaking my shit in mineral spirits
[02:07:18] <zeeshan|2> and it didnt do much
[02:07:32] <jdh> I got a couple of cases of 'banned' contact cleaner that work great on cosmoline
[02:07:40] <XXCoder> it apparently preserves metals better than most oils
[02:09:32] <ssi> heh this is absurd
[02:09:46] <ssi> I'm sitting here with a 24x36 paper drawing of an upholstery template for my airplane
[02:09:53] <ssi> and I'm measuring it with an architects scale
[02:09:56] <ssi> and drawing it in cad
[02:09:59] <ssi> so that I can cut it on a laser
[02:10:02] <ssi> and then sew it
[02:10:03] <ssi> :D
[02:10:17] <jdh> that's pretty uber-dorky.
[02:10:17] <XXCoder> ssi thats great idea
[02:10:19] <jdh> and yet cool.
[02:10:20] <XXCoder> cnc made clothes lol
[02:10:26] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[02:10:43] <jdh> did I mention I need new boat cushions?
[02:10:53] <ssi> jdh: $80/hr plus materials :)
[02:11:03] <zeeshan|2> youre not a cheap messican
[02:11:03] <zeeshan|2> !
[02:11:10] <ssi> srsly tho I'm pretty sure I can make some nice ass boat cushions
[02:11:15] <ssi> I have 5yd of sunbrella downstairs
[02:11:18] <XXCoder> ass boat cusions
[02:11:22] <ssi> XXCoder: ;)
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[02:12:59] <XXCoder> power of ass. it stopped the whole show here
[02:13:13] <ssi> that's my favorite huey lewis and the news song
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[02:24:54] <XXCoder> wow http://thenextweb.com/creativity/2014/09/25/seek-thermals-new-mobile-camera-attachments-let-see-heat/
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[02:27:04] <ssi> CaptHindsight: so if I do get this vmc, I'm pretty sure those gemini drives I bought will work for it
[02:27:09] <ssi> and even be sorta ridiculously overkill
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[02:40:56] <ssi> I really did kill the channel huh
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[02:41:11] <skunkworks> what did I miss?>
[02:42:34] <ssi> very little :)
[02:42:38] <XXCoder> indeed
[02:43:14] <Tom_itx> lots
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[02:45:55] <XXCoder> lots of very little
[02:52:37] <Connor> okay guys.. any GOOD reason to have separate switch for steppers/servos and spindle ?
[02:53:45] <ssi> Connor: personally, I like to have all that stuff run by relays under the control of hardware
[02:53:52] <ssi> and then hal wire them to machine enable
[02:54:12] <ssi> power supplies come on at estop release, drives enable at machine enable
[02:54:17] <Connor> This would be he main switch to turn on/off the mains
[02:54:30] <skunkworks> just 1..
[02:54:39] <ssi> yeah... I like a physical switch or contactor that turns on power to the machine, which the computer is attached to
[02:54:52] <ssi> then once linuxcnc is running, when estop is disengaged, power supplies to the drives come on
[02:54:57] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/231299168518
[02:55:03] <ssi> machine enable brings up the drive enables
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[02:55:13] <Connor> That's one I'm looking at..
[02:55:40] <Connor> Can use 1 pole for spindle, the other pole for the steppers/servo
[02:56:14] <Connor> 120AC 16Amp for Spindle, 120AC - 12 (or 8 amp..) for Steppers
[02:56:26] <Connor> that look like a good choice ?
[02:57:05] <Connor> and this one --- http://www.ebay.com/itm/321294465965 for my Coolant pump. On - Off - Computer
[02:58:15] <Connor> Yes / No / Maybe -- Hell No? :)
[02:58:40] <Jymmm> ON-OFF-AUTO
[02:58:51] <Connor> Jymmm: Yea.
[02:59:02] <ssi> again, I wouldn't personally bother with the physical switch, and if you have an "auto" position you need a relay anyway, so just switch the control line to the relay
[02:59:10] <ssi> no need for a high current switch
[02:59:34] <Connor> ssi: I'll be using a SSR, and by-passing it with the switch.
[02:59:47] <Connor> It's overkill.. but.. I like the looks of it.
[03:00:01] <Connor> and it'll handle anything I throw at it if I upgrade.
[03:00:08] <Tom_itx> tactile switches with relays behind them all
[03:00:36] <Connor> Tom_itx: Ha!
[03:01:22] <Tom_itx> better yet a touch switch
[03:01:45] <Tom_itx> power could be a fingerprint switch
[03:03:01] <ssi> now yer talkin
[03:04:47] <jdh> add an arduino
[03:04:51] <jdh> (for no good reason)
[03:05:04] <Connor> You all are a bunch of dicks sometimes. :)
[03:05:10] <jdh> it's IRC
[03:05:14] <Tom_itx> atmel does touch switches iirc
[03:05:25] <Tom_itx> was i kidding?
[03:05:42] <Tom_itx> or do you want some big clunky control with huge switches on it?
[03:06:02] <Connor> It's not a control.. It's the main enclosure.
[03:06:08] <Connor> It's going to have 2 switches.
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[03:06:18] <Connor> one for the mains, one for the coolant
[03:06:22] <jdh> I have a biggish disconnect that kills AC to the enclosure.
[03:06:35] <jdh> once it is on (and the estop is off), relays do everything else
[03:06:46] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:07:06] <jdh> requires pushing the start button.
[03:11:45] <ssi> Connor: do you really see yourself needing to run the coolant at a time when you can't enable it via the control?
[03:12:06] <Connor> If I've shut the machine down and want to clean the tray out.. yes.
[03:12:19] <ssi> fair enough
[03:14:13] <ssi> I could see myself installing a keyswitch in the estop line on the vmc
[03:14:24] <ssi> too many people can get into my hangar
[03:14:34] <Connor> By Law you may need too.
[03:14:55] <Connor> if it's publicly accessible.
[03:15:00] <ssi> it's not publicly accessible
[03:15:10] <ssi> it's just somewhat widely privately accessible :)
[03:16:33] <skunkworks> I really should use m19 now for spindle lock.
[03:16:56] <skunkworks> m100/m101 is getting old ;)
[03:17:35] <ssi> skunkworks: do you know how orient works? cause I need to help pete get his going, and I don't really know anything about it
[03:17:53] <Connor> ssi: I've been ALL over that today.
[03:17:55] <skunkworks> I have not played with it..
[03:18:08] <ssi> Connor: yea? what'd you find
[03:18:08] <Connor> Andy probably knows a little about it.
[03:18:09] <skunkworks> I gave conner one or 2 links..
[03:18:16] <skunkworks> or
[03:19:21] <Connor> ssi: Not much.. very few people are using it..
[03:19:33] <skunkworks> Connor: this is robh's orient with a mortal vfd.
[03:19:36] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6dGYsXAPIU
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[03:23:47] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[03:23:49] <ssi> god that monster
[03:23:52] <ssi> I'd almost forgotten :)
[03:24:08] <ssi> I guess it doesn't need to be oriented for the changes, eh
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[03:28:50] <skunkworks> ?
[03:28:58] <skunkworks> it orients for tool change.
[03:29:13] <skunkworks> (it just does it mechanically)
[03:31:31] <ssi> ahhh
[03:33:10] <skunkworks> It is part of the spindle comp.
[03:33:30] <skunkworks> was just running it tonight. got it runs good
[03:33:35] <skunkworks> *boy
[03:33:39] <ssi> it's such an awesome machine
[03:36:12] <toastydeath> what taper is that
[03:36:41] <skunkworks> it isn't - it is Kearney and treckers tooling design. strait shank
[03:36:47] <skunkworks> held by a huge ass cullet
[03:36:49] <skunkworks> collet
[03:37:30] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/spindle.JPG
[03:41:50] <XXCoder> any of you watch game of thrones?
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[03:47:28] <skunksleep> Connor, ssi, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SpindleOrientation
[03:47:53] <skunksleep> That is robs setup
[03:48:25] <skunksleep> I remember it being somewhere...
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[05:09:48] <ssi> https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/10714449_10100485655709572_436746329922833423_o.jpg
[05:09:52] <ssi> first stab at a seat back panel
[05:09:57] <ssi> need more practice for sure
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[05:20:44] <Connor> skunksleep: Whats up with that IRC nick ? :)
[05:22:50] <Connor> skunksleep: Looks like he's using Classic Ladder...
[05:29:09] <ssi> Connor: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/orient.9.html
[05:29:23] <Connor> ssi: Yea.. but no working demo's
[05:29:56] <Connor> ssi: We have to get his spindle working in closed loop first... then we might be able to use that.
[05:30:26] <ssi> well that should be fun
[05:30:45] <Connor> Yea... I actually have mine running on PID control...
[05:30:52] <Connor> but.. it's not tuned very good.
[05:31:14] <ssi> yeah I messed with it on the hardinge for awhile, but ultimately scrapped it
[05:31:28] <ssi> I blamed a pmsm spindle motor that doesn't respond well enough
[05:32:09] <Connor> When I convert over to Mesa, I'll redo it again.. hopefully it'll work better.
[05:32:19] <Connor> I think the Acel/Decel on the motor controller causes issues..
[05:33:12] <ssi> are you sure that you need closed loop spindle for this component?
[05:33:14] <Connor> OKay, My Switches and stuff are ordered.. and my ball screws have been shipped.
[05:33:23] <ssi> it looks like he wants you to set up an orient pid component
[05:33:24] <Connor> It uses PID out
[05:33:34] <Connor> which means.. you need closed loop
[05:34:33] <Connor> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc-mill.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/remapped-toolchange-touchoff-plus-new-M19
[05:35:00] <Connor> That's the config from the guy who wrote the orient comp
[05:36:00] <Connor> # Spindle VFD control with optional PID closed loop
[05:36:52] <ssi> how long's it been since michael was on irc?
[05:36:54] <ssi> he used to get on all the time
[05:37:04] <Connor> I dunno.
[05:37:16] <Connor> I emailed him today.. and that's what I got back
[05:38:07] <ssi> I hate his gitweb interface
[05:38:14] <ssi> it's very difficult to navigate
[05:38:30] <Connor> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc-mill.git;a=snapshot;h=8a30ac3270f3d9fe3790292b2c2d42e97c01d5ba;sf=tgz
[05:38:36] <Connor> that's the latest copy of his config.
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[05:43:21] <Connor> He's doing some funky stuff.. like.. setp spindle-dir-mux.function 0x3a
[05:43:24] <Connor> WTF is that for ?
[05:44:13] <ssi> heheh muxes are fun
[05:44:15] <ssi> i use them on the laser
[05:44:37] <Connor> Yea.. trying to figure out what he's doing with it..
[05:45:34] <ssi> which file are you in?
[05:45:49] <ssi> I have a python script that'll give you the function number for a given logic statement
[05:45:53] <Connor> fraese-f12-hm2-with-common.hal
[05:45:53] <ssi> but it doesn't work in reverse :P
[05:46:47] <ssi> oh he's got it commented
[05:47:08] <Connor> Yes.. but.. still no explanation as to what it's for. :)
[05:48:19] <ssi> figure out what's attached to the mux pins
[05:54:01] <Connor> I like his glade tool panel.
[05:55:19] <Connor> He has tabs for Spindle, Tool Changer, T/O (with probing) and all sorts of stuff.. I may have to use that..
[06:00:58] <ssi> nice
[06:01:03] <ssi> did you load it up?
[06:01:08] <ssi> can you take screenshots?
[06:01:20] <Connor> Well.. I just loaded it in glade
[06:02:50] <Connor> Damn his stuff is complex...
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[07:06:23] <Deejay> moin
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[07:41:15] <Loetmichel> <- sitting at the company in my holiday, milling some Al sheets for the co-worker... i should have taught him how to use the mill ;-)
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[08:33:05] <alexfloca> hello guys
[08:33:48] <alexfloca> can someone indicate where to look for the abort code in the interpreter of version 2.6.2?
[08:34:17] <alexfloca> if M6 is remaped the machine behaves strange on abort of programs
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[11:19:29] <ww34ww34> Hi everyone!
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[12:59:55] <zeeshan|2> little confused about home / limit switches
[12:59:59] <zeeshan|2> im looking through the manual
[13:00:33] <zeeshan|2> i have 2 limit switches on the X axis right now. -X and +X. the +X one i want to serve as a dual purpose - hard limit switch
[13:00:35] <zeeshan|2> and also home switch
[13:00:57] <zeeshan|2> 9.2 of the stepconf manual
[13:01:13] <zeeshan|2> hoose Minimum Limit + Home X in the pinout
[13:01:31] <zeeshan|2> does anyone know what selecting that changes in the HAL? ( dont want want to use step conf cause i have a couple of manual entries.)
[13:03:09] <zeeshan|2> +X will be a limit& home switch, same with +Z
[13:03:21] <zeeshan|2> -X and -Z are tied together in parallel and take 1 input
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[13:21:24] <JT-Shop> axis.N.home-sw-in IN BIT Should be driven TRUE if the home switch for this joint is closed
[13:21:47] <zeeshan|2> JT-Shop: which manual is that from
[13:21:47] <zeeshan|2> AXIS?
[13:21:49] <zeeshan|2> man AXIS?
[13:21:55] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
[13:21:59] <zeeshan|2> thank u
[13:22:03] <JT-Shop> np
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[14:01:25] <miss0r> The most messy project i've ever made; it is the part milling for applying a vacume to remove cutoff
[14:01:28] <miss0r> *sigh*
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[14:20:07] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBQ7RSuRAls&list=UUHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg
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[14:37:32] <ssi> marn
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[14:40:02] <ssi> Sweet, I won three more gemini drives on ebay
[14:40:15] <ssi> GV6-U6E, the 1.8kw drives
[14:49:28] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
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[15:15:15] <zeeshan|2> nice
[15:15:20] <zeeshan|2> :D
[15:15:24] <ssi> $99 for all three
[15:15:25] <ssi> weeee
[15:15:30] <zeeshan|2> servo drives?
[15:15:31] <zeeshan|2> dC?
[15:15:31] <ssi> ya
[15:15:34] <ssi> AC servo
[15:15:37] <zeeshan|2> oh wow
[15:15:38] <ssi> actually they'll probably do both
[15:15:40] <zeeshan|2> thats dirt cheap
[15:15:42] <ssi> I know the AMC AC drives do both
[15:15:48] <ssi> yeah, they're like $2k apiece retail
[15:15:58] <zeeshan|2> if my drives are burnt
[15:16:01] <zeeshan|2> im coming to you :P
[15:16:10] <zeeshan|2> dude
[15:16:13] <zeeshan|2> this is driving my insane
[15:16:22] <zeeshan|2> i have 3 inputs left (i know i shoulda gone mesa)
[15:16:26] <ssi> http://www.plccenter.com/en-US/Buy/PARKER/GV6U6ENK
[15:16:32] <zeeshan|2> so im using 2o f them for home +x and +z
[15:16:35] <ssi> lol I don't wanna hear it ;)
[15:16:43] <ssi> just run all your homes and limits in series
[15:16:45] <zeeshan|2> and 1 for e-stop signal
[15:16:45] <ssi> one pin
[15:16:55] <zeeshan|2> hear me out plz!
[15:17:11] <zeeshan|2> my charge pump signal is what -z -x , e-stop are in series with
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[15:17:22] <zeeshan|2> if any one of those break open, charge pump signal dies
[15:17:33] <zeeshan|2> which in turn sends an e-stop active through the charge pump relays.
[15:17:43] <zeeshan|2> the e-stop active signal is one input pin on the bob
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[15:17:59] <zeeshan|2> so that means i have 2 free input pins left for +z and +x limit switch / home switch
[15:18:29] <zeeshan|2> the problem im having is with the BOB itself
[15:18:38] <zeeshan|2> i moved my e-stop signal pin from pin 12 to pin 15
[15:18:52] <zeeshan|2> and now my e-stop keeps on actively turnining on and off by itself
[15:19:13] <Connor> weak parport pin
[15:19:14] <zeeshan|2> i monitered the pin, and indeed its turning on and off by itself
[15:19:20] <zeeshan|2> https://www.probotix.com/manuals/PBX-RF_manual.pdf
[15:19:25] <zeeshan|2> i looked at the circuit diagram of this
[15:19:32] <zeeshan|2> pin 15 doesnt seem to have any resistors on it
[15:19:52] <zeeshan|2> the last page has a blurry as diagram
[15:20:02] <zeeshan|2> but if you look at the parallel port, there is no resistor on pin 15
[15:20:04] <Connor> pin 12 have resistor on it? pulling high or low ?
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[15:20:22] <zeeshan|2> connor theyre setup as pull up
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[15:20:40] <zeeshan|2> i think. i forget
[15:20:43] <Connor> test it direct with a wire to ground.
[15:20:58] <zeeshan|2> im pretty sure when yoiu ground it
[15:21:01] <zeeshan|2> it goes to 0
[15:21:09] <zeeshan|2> oterhwise it floats at 5
[15:21:25] <zeeshan|2> but that's not that big of a deal i would think because
[15:21:25] <Connor> so, the charge pump signal going into it?
[15:21:37] <ssi> zeeshan|2: add a stouter pullup
[15:21:51] <zeeshan|2> connor forget everything i said
[15:21:58] <zeeshan|2> all i did was move pin 12 to 15 and it doesnt work
[15:22:06] <Connor> stronger pullup
[15:22:07] <zeeshan|2> pin 15 is a non-isolated pin
[15:22:35] <zeeshan|2> i really suck ass when it comes to transistors
[15:22:50] <zeeshan|2> so basically you guys are saying
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[15:23:11] <zeeshan|2> throw a resistor in series
[15:23:16] <Connor> No.
[15:23:27] <Connor> tie a resistor to it and +5v
[15:23:29] <ssi> no, in parallel, to +5
[15:24:09] <zeeshan|2> that doesnt make sense, and i know its my fault cause ididnt explain it right
[15:24:31] <Connor> okay. First.. test pin 12 with a wire direct to ground.. and see if it jumps..
[15:24:38] <zeeshan|2> ill show you a diagram
[15:24:42] <Connor> ok
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[15:25:54] <Rab> Maybe this is old news, but it's new to me: http://www.yuriystoys.com/p/android-dro.html
[15:26:25] <Rab> Looks really neat, except for the part where they lovingly recreate the poor readability of 7-segment displays.
[15:27:50] <ssi> lol
[15:28:39] <ssi> they're actually less readable than most 7segs
[15:28:47] <ssi> cause they went well out of their way to make the "off" segments very visible
[15:29:18] <Connor> Could be just the photos..
[15:29:21] <Connor> might be better IRL
[15:29:28] <Rab> Yeah. It's open source, I guess you could make your own skin.
[15:29:34] <pcw_home> triumph of style over design
[15:30:11] <Rab> Waiting with bated breath for nixie tube skin.
[15:30:45] * cpresser loves 7-segment displays. I have a hardware DRO build with them
[15:31:16] <cpresser> size is 2" https://ca.rstenpresser.de/~cpresser/tmp/pictures/dro/DRO.jpg
[15:31:30] <Rab> Nice!
[15:32:19] <Rab> I have an old Mitutoyo DRO, but I haven't been able to r/e the protocol it uses...might have to make a board to drive the displays directly. http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/mitutoyo_RD-L1.jpg
[15:33:03] <Connor> Ball screws will be here on the 29th..
[15:33:09] <Connor> switches and stuff in a few days..
[15:34:15] <Connor> Does DHL not direct deliver any more ?
[15:34:31] <Connor> It has it going to Erlanger, KY
[15:34:46] <Connor> they must hand off to USPS or UPS
[15:35:25] <ssi> everyone these days has a cheap option that lets USPS do last-mile
[15:35:56] <Connor> Fedex one SUCKS hairy balls!
[15:36:04] <Connor> Slowest delivery on EARTH
[15:36:33] <ssi> ok lets see if we can't get this 5i25 repaired
[15:36:43] <Connor> Eh? What's wrong with it ?
[15:36:53] <ssi> I'm pretty sure I blew up one of the bus switches
[15:37:03] <ssi> the plasma incident a few months ago
[15:37:07] <Connor> Ouch.
[15:37:12] <ssi> no biggie
[15:37:18] <Connor> Sending it off or fixing it yourself ?
[15:37:22] <ssi> fixing it myself
[15:37:46] <Connor> Wow.
[15:37:55] <Connor> it's all surface mount.. and tiny surface mount at that.
[15:38:16] <ssi> nah this stuff is huge relative to what I'm used to :)
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[15:43:33] <skunkworks> the last surface mount stuff I did was swaping a firmware chip from one seagate hd to another.. (messy)
[15:43:50] <skunkworks> but worked!
[15:45:34] <ssi> old chips are lifted
[15:45:47] <ssi> lets get the new ones in
[15:46:17] <roycroft> fun day today
[15:46:24] <roycroft> i get to patch bash on ~60 servers
[15:46:38] <ssi> we did tnhat last night
[15:46:48] <ssi> on 1500 servers
[15:46:53] <ssi> thank god for automation :)
[15:47:01] <roycroft> yeah, we don't have automation for that
[15:47:10] <roycroft> we run too much of a mix of operating systems and versions of them
[15:47:46] <roycroft> i'm having to build from source on many of the machines
[15:49:01] <rythmnbls> same here - building form source
[15:49:21] <Connor> How critical is patching bash when everything is FW off from the world?
[15:49:48] <roycroft> it's pretty important if it's connected the world, period
[15:49:50] <roycroft> even if it's firewalled
[15:49:57] <ssi> yep
[15:50:10] <roycroft> any process that can spawn a shell can get root
[15:50:20] <roycroft> which means almost any process can get root
[15:50:40] <roycroft> i notice that apple have not put out patches for mac os x or ios yet
[15:50:49] <roycroft> your cell phone almost certainly has a shell on it
[15:50:56] <roycroft> and it's likely that shell is bash
[15:51:15] <roycroft> we have printers that run linux
[15:51:18] <roycroft> they have bash on them
[15:51:26] <roycroft> we're trying to get the vendor to patch them
[15:51:41] <roycroft> you need to patch your raspberry pi
[15:57:07] <Connor> Nice.
[15:57:09] <Connor> ;(
[15:57:28] <Connor> I have a server running CentOS 4.x and no updates are available for it now...
[15:57:37] <Connor> I'll have to patch it
[15:58:03] <rythmnbls> I wish they had rollup .patch instead of all those incrementals
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[16:15:33] <ssi> ok that's done
[16:15:35] <ssi> need to test it
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[16:16:44] <zeeshan|2> sorry for the delay
[16:16:45] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:16:51] <zeeshan|2> my dad started giving me a dental seminar
[16:17:05] <zeeshan|2> cause i asked him why do people always insist on general anesthesia
[16:17:12] <zeeshan|2> and why dentists pull at all 4 widsom teeth
[16:17:19] <zeeshan|2> told me its a dental scam :P
[16:17:51] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/T4p95eT.png
[16:17:54] <zeeshan|2> thats my circuit connor
[16:18:14] <zeeshan|2> instead of pin 12, now its pin 15
[16:18:22] <zeeshan|2> and im grounding the pin
[16:18:56] <zeeshan|2> currently in my hal pin 12 is inverted
[16:19:10] <zeeshan|2> so im pretty sure its 5V when off, and 0V when on
[16:19:14] <ssi> if you disconnect everything from pin 15 and scope it
[16:19:17] <ssi> does it glitch?
[16:19:22] <zeeshan|2> i dont have a scope
[16:19:28] <zeeshan|2> :-(
[16:19:29] <Connor> It's pin 12 that's glitching..
[16:19:30] <ssi> how were you detecting glitches before
[16:19:33] <zeeshan|2> no connor
[16:19:36] <zeeshan|2> its pin 15 thats glitching
[16:19:40] <Connor> OH.
[16:19:40] <zeeshan|2> when its pin 12 its perfectly fine
[16:19:51] <ssi> does pin 12 have a pullup on the bob?
[16:19:57] <zeeshan|2> ssi yes
[16:20:01] <zeeshan|2> but pin 15 doesnt
[16:20:08] <Connor> That's the problem
[16:20:13] <ssi> yes
[16:20:15] <ssi> so add a pullup
[16:20:17] <ssi> like I said
[16:20:17] <zeeshan|2> so you guys are saying
[16:20:19] <zeeshan|2> 5V that slut
[16:20:22] <zeeshan|2> with a 1k ohm
[16:20:24] <ssi> yes
[16:20:30] <Connor> Yup.
[16:20:32] <ssi> match whatever the value of R12 is if you can
[16:20:39] <ssi> since you know it's stiff enough
[16:20:58] <Connor> This circuit looks familiar btw...
[16:21:05] <ssi> a pullup holds the line at Vcc
[16:21:06] <zeeshan|2> connor we made it together
[16:21:07] <zeeshan|2> :)
[16:21:18] <ssi> when you ground the pin with a short circuit, that's WAY less resistance than 1k, so the pin goes to ground
[16:21:22] <zeeshan|2> https://www.probotix.com/manuals/PBX-RF_manual.pdf
[16:21:32] <ssi> if you were to ground it with 1k (same as the pullup), you'd get Vcc/2 at the pin
[16:21:38] <zeeshan|2> i see 200 ohms before the optical isolator
[16:21:47] <zeeshan|2> and 200+10k ohm after isolator
[16:21:51] <ssi> that's the current set resistor for the opto
[16:21:58] <zeeshan|2> o
[16:21:59] <ssi> 10k is teh pullup, 200 is likely a series terminator
[16:22:00] <zeeshan|2> so its 10k then
[16:22:07] <zeeshan|2> sweet i have some at home
[16:22:15] <ssi> the value's not super critical
[16:22:28] <zeeshan|2> as long as it allows the transistor to switch
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[16:22:56] <Connor> So dang fuzzy can't make anything out.
[16:22:59] <zeeshan|2> i know
[16:23:04] <zeeshan|2> its such a crappy diagram
[16:23:11] <zeeshan|2> i had to stare at it for a while
[16:24:00] <zeeshan|2> so this is the bullshit you deal with when you don't go mesa
[16:24:04] * zeeshan|2 slaps himself
[16:24:05] <ssi> YEP
[16:24:06] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[16:24:12] <Connor> EXACTLY!
[16:24:33] <zeeshan|2> im literally using all my i/o
[16:24:37] <zeeshan|2> after home switches lol
[16:24:37] <ssi> YEP
[16:24:43] <ssi> I don't like being in that situation
[16:24:50] <zeeshan|2> i can't even run coolant on
[16:24:54] <roycroft> grr
[16:24:54] <zeeshan|2> i have to do that through modb us
[16:24:56] <ssi> hell, even on my plasma table, which is mesa, I ran into that
[16:25:02] <zeeshan|2> through the auxilary vfd input/output
[16:25:05] <roycroft> there's a second patch for the bash bug now
[16:25:13] <roycroft> but it's so far only for rh and slackware
[16:25:14] <ssi> because I had a G540 on it, and when I went mesa, I just did a 5i25 g540 firmware
[16:25:25] <ssi> well that still gives you parport io count, unless you use teh second port
[16:25:31] <ssi> so I had to cobble togetherc bullshit for wiring on the second port
[16:25:36] <zeeshan|2> i do have second par port
[16:25:37] <ssi> eventually I ordered a 7i75 to make it tidy
[16:25:45] <zeeshan|2> but its not worth adding another breakout board
[16:25:49] <ssi> but I hate that crap... the 7i76/7i77 makes everything so much nicer
[16:25:59] <roycroft> it suppresses the warning message when attempting to exploit the vulnerability, but nobody can tell me if it does anything else
[16:26:07] <zeeshan|2> if iwere to add another breakout board, i would just go w/ mesa
[16:26:10] * roycroft does not want to be repatching this weekend
[16:26:16] <ssi> zeeshan|2: good plan
[16:26:31] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[16:26:36] <zeeshan|2> do you use 5i25 with a daughter board?
[16:26:39] <ssi> mostly
[16:26:40] <rythmnbls> roycroft, have a link ?
[16:26:44] <ssi> the plasma table doesn't
[16:26:48] <zeeshan|2> daughter board so wiring is easier
[16:26:50] <ssi> I have a huge mishmash of mesaequipment
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[16:27:01] <ssi> my first mesa machine used a 7i43 with a homebuilt breakout on perf
[16:27:08] <ssi> it's shitty and I should redo it with modern stuff
[16:27:12] <zeeshan|2> i really dont wanna fry my par port
[16:27:18] <zeeshan|2> since pin 15 isnt isolated
[16:27:29] <zeeshan|2> im gonna double check everything before i inject 5v w/ a reissotor
[16:27:29] <ssi> hnc uses a 5i23 I think, with the 7i49 resolver card and one of the io breakouts
[16:27:49] <ssi> plasma is 5i25 with g540 on P3 and 7i75 on P2
[16:28:07] <ssi> the mill i built for podponics was a 7i77 kit, my g0704 has a 7i77 kit, laser is a 7i76 kit
[16:28:17] <ssi> plus I have a box of older mesa stuff on the shelf above me
[16:28:34] <zeeshan|2> youre a mesa whore
[16:28:35] <zeeshan|2> :D
[16:28:40] <ssi> another 7i43
[16:28:40] <zeeshan|2> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/myfrog2009/aviation_plug.jpg
[16:28:44] <zeeshan|2> what do you call these plugs again
[16:28:50] <ssi> 7i42TA protection breakout
[16:28:52] <zeeshan|2> i need a 6 pin
[16:28:56] <zeeshan|2> not the 4 pin i currently have
[16:29:12] <ssi> I call that picture a liar
[16:29:19] <ssi> those aren't "High quality aviation plugs"
[16:29:21] <zeeshan|2> haha
[16:29:22] <ssi> those are CB radio bullshit plugs
[16:29:44] <ssi> best bet is to go with tyco CPC series I or series II
[16:29:57] <ssi> they're milspec I'm pretty sure and quite good
[16:30:03] <zeeshan|2> im going to the local surplus
[16:30:05] <ssi> the real milspec aluminum ones are SUPER expensive
[16:30:07] <zeeshan|2> i gotta pick up some limit switches
[16:30:09] <ssi> the onel you see in military aircrayft
[16:30:10] <zeeshan|2> a terminal block
[16:30:36] <ssi> I also have a 7i33 and 7i37 here, which is enough to rig another servo machine
[16:31:11] <zeeshan|2> http://www.sayal.com/STORE/ActionIndexP.asp?ID=2011
[16:31:13] <zeeshan|2> sweet they have them
[16:31:16] <zeeshan|2> theyre called microphone connectors
[16:31:17] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:31:20] <ssi> yes
[16:31:22] <ssi> CB microphone :)
[16:31:25] <zeeshan|2> im only passing 5v through tat shit
[16:31:31] <Connor> OKay, So, I'm using a charge pump currently.. with a relay setup.. When I switch out to the 7i76, what do I need to do ?
[16:31:44] <Connor> to replicate that functionality ?
[16:31:54] <zeeshan|2> ssi told me
[16:31:56] <ssi> Connor: i'm gonna ask you what I asked zeeshan
[16:31:59] <zeeshan|2> its all done internally pretty much
[16:32:00] <ssi> what are you using the charge pump for
[16:32:20] <zeeshan|2> ssi look at the circuit diagram
[16:32:23] <ssi> which
[16:32:23] <zeeshan|2> we're pretty much doing the same thing
[16:32:33] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/T4p95eT.png
[16:32:35] <zeeshan|2> my crappy one :D
[16:32:47] <zeeshan|2> when the charge pump signal fails
[16:32:51] <zeeshan|2> it triggers a relay
[16:33:08] <ssi> that seems hacky and mostly useless
[16:33:08] <Connor> ssi, My Charge pump relay disables the spindle directly. and disables the stepper drivers.
[16:33:18] <zeeshan|2> as long as the charge pump gets a i think 17khz signal
[16:33:21] <zeeshan|2> it's alive
[16:33:25] <zeeshan|2> if it dies, its game over
[16:33:55] <zeeshan|2> ssi its not useless
[16:34:00] <zeeshan|2> its literally a hardware watchdog
[16:34:06] <ssi> pcw_home: correct me if I'm wrong, but the field IO on the 7i7x will drop if the watchdog bites, yeah?
[16:34:23] <ssi> zeeshan|2: well yeah I get that, but I mean in context of rewiring to 7x76
[16:34:39] <zeeshan|2> i dont see why you can't keep the charge pump
[16:34:48] <ssi> you can
[16:34:49] <zeeshan|2> and just get a 17khz signal from an output pin
[16:34:53] <zeeshan|2> and call it a day :P
[16:35:00] <ssi> you just have to set up a pwmgen or stepper driver to run it
[16:35:06] <ssi> that's how the g540 firmware is set up
[16:35:14] <Connor> yea, which costs you a axis.
[16:35:16] <ssi> cause it has a chargepump watchdog as well (which you can disable)
[16:35:32] <ssi> Connor: not if you use a pwm on field IO, or on the internal port
[16:35:39] <ssi> but really, I'm not sure you need the chargepump
[16:35:45] <pcw_home> on a FPGA card/ 7I77 there are 2 watchdogs one in the FPGA card and on on the 7I77 processor
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[16:36:02] <Connor> pcw_home: 7i76
[16:36:07] <pcw_home> same
[16:36:08] <ssi> I have all my relays wired to field IO, they're active high... if the machine freezes, the watchdogs bite, and the field IO drops
[16:36:17] <ssi> meaning all the relays shut off
[16:36:42] <zeeshan|2> i see what you mean
[16:36:48] <Connor> I need a relay to invert that to disable the stepper drivers...
[16:36:54] <pcw_home> all sserial remotes with outputs have a watchdog (default timeout = 50 ms)
[16:36:55] <Connor> +5v on the enable pin to DISABLE
[16:37:21] <ssi> Connor: which drives?
[16:37:40] <zeeshan|2> mine require the same thing
[16:37:40] <ssi> btw the 7i76 has drive enable pins in the main section
[16:37:44] <zeeshan|2> +5v to the drive
[16:37:45] <zeeshan|2> to kill it
[16:37:51] <zeeshan|2> which makes no sense at all
[16:37:53] <zeeshan|2> but thats how they are
[16:37:56] <ssi> doesn't it? maybe not
[16:38:00] <pcw_home> yeah common step drives have disable inputs
[16:38:08] <Connor> Okay.. so what about a push-to-start button? Currently.. I have a button that temporary enables the BOB so it can receive the charge pump signal.. once it's engaged, a relay handles that and push-to-start button can be released.
[16:38:10] <zeeshan|2> you'd think they'd be disabled
[16:38:13] <zeeshan|2> unless you energize em
[16:38:28] <ssi> pcw_home: I wish they'd quit doing that... enable inputs are much easier to deal with and safer :/
[16:38:39] <zeeshan|2> i still dont know why they do that ssi
[16:38:45] <zeeshan|2> i couldnt think of a logical reason.
[16:38:50] <pcw_home> even some AMC servo drives are like than (not good with broken wires)
[16:38:58] <pcw_home> like that
[16:39:00] <ssi> AMC servo drives are that way, but you can open 'em up and remove a shunt resistor and it inverts the enable
[16:39:34] <Connor> KL-5056 drivers
[16:39:39] <pcw_home> yeah much better that unconnected means disabled
[16:39:40] <ssi> I'm using the same ones
[16:39:53] <ssi> and you know now that I tihnk of it, I think I'm running the enable through a relay
[16:40:00] <ssi> and the drive disables are on the NC side of the relay
[16:40:10] <ssi> sucks :)
[16:40:18] <Connor> OKay, are the drive enables active high or active low when watchdog detects fault ?
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[16:40:30] <pcw_home> but I think the manufacturers think that normally enabled is simpler
[16:40:40] <Connor> on th 7i76
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[16:40:59] <zeeshan|2> connor i think the question to ask is
[16:41:03] <zeeshan|2> is it configurable :P
[16:41:07] <zeeshan|2> through firmware
[16:41:23] <ssi> Connor: I'm pretty sure enable on the 7i76 is active high, and when the watchdog bites it'll be low
[16:41:36] <zeeshan|2> ssi can you invert
[16:41:39] <Connor> which is not going to work.
[16:41:47] <ssi> you'll just have to do what I did
[16:41:49] <ssi> run it through a mechanical relay
[16:41:55] <ssi> it's not the end of the world, just annoying
[16:42:00] <zeeshan|2> well then its better just to keep the charge pump board
[16:42:03] <zeeshan|2> cause it has relays in it
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[16:42:29] <Connor> Well.. I have 12v relays coming.. so.. i can use one of those like I'm doing now.
[16:42:32] <zeeshan|2> or if you dont wanna lose an axis
[16:42:36] <zeeshan|2> just a regular relay board
[16:42:37] <pcw_home> there are not any step enables on the 7I76, but the FPGA WD will stop step output
[16:43:13] <pcw_home> and if you have a free step or dir output you can wire that to the step drive enable
[16:43:34] <ssi> looks like I have drive enable on the laser on field output 07
[16:43:50] <ssi> which is my #7 relay, and the NC line of the relay is wired to the enables
[16:44:12] <ssi> and that's halwired to machine-enable
[16:44:42] <pcw_home> (STEP/DIR outputs are usable as GPOs so have a defined state at power up/WD bite)
[16:44:57] <ssi> I have a relay for enable, a relay for 48V power supply, and a relay for 35kv power supply
[16:45:07] <ssi> those are separate output pins that run separate relays,
[16:45:12] <ssi> but internally they're all halwired to machine-enable
[16:45:12] <Connor> I'll just use the relay like I am now.
[16:45:23] <zeeshan|2> ssi your e-stop kills
[16:45:25] <ssi> so when I hit F2 it brings up both power supplies and the drive enables
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[16:45:27] <zeeshan|2> power su pply opwer?
[16:45:33] <ssi> 48V and 35kV yes
[16:45:35] <ssi> not the 12 or 5
[16:45:38] <zeeshan|2> why
[16:45:48] <ssi> what do you mean why?
[16:45:51] <Connor> OKay.. so.. If I use my push-to start button with a latching relay that feeds power to the field I/O.. will that work ?
[16:45:55] <zeeshan|2> why do you wanna kill power to them
[16:46:21] <ssi> Connor: seems like it would
[16:46:28] <zeeshan|2> are you worried the stepper drivers will start generating a sginal
[16:46:32] <zeeshan|2> and move the steppers on its own? :p
[16:46:38] <Connor> No.
[16:46:52] <Connor> More worried about the spindle starting up on boot up..
[16:46:58] <ssi> zeeshan|2: is this another patented zeeshan ridiculously pointless ideological argument?
[16:47:02] <ssi> cause I'm really not interested
[16:47:02] <zeeshan|2> ssi no
[16:47:07] <zeeshan|2> im seriously asking you why
[16:47:16] <zeeshan|2> if you have power going to your stepper drives
[16:47:16] <ssi> why would I leave the power supplies on?
[16:47:20] <Connor> On old setup.. the parport pins would cause issues and spindle would start up when machine was turned on until you got into linuxcnc
[16:47:21] <zeeshan|2> and dont kill it during each e-stop
[16:47:29] <zeeshan|2> what difference does it make?
[16:47:40] <ssi> it's safer this way
[16:47:42] <zeeshan|2> why
[16:47:45] <ssi> if the drives overheat and catch on fire
[16:47:50] <ssi> estop disables voltage to cthem
[16:47:57] <zeeshan|2> your e-stop last i checked
[16:48:00] <zeeshan|2> isn't meant to stop a fire
[16:48:00] <ssi> if the laser gets out of alignment and starts burning a hole in the wall
[16:48:05] <ssi> the estop will kill power to it
[16:48:16] <zeeshan|2> you have a main disconnect switch for that
[16:48:31] <ssi> main disconnect switch, like many big machines, is on the back of the machine
[16:48:44] <ssi> I hate to have to do this again
[16:48:53] <ssi> but stop arguing with people about machines when you've only played with toys :)
[16:49:02] <zeeshan|2> ssi i've worked on real machines
[16:49:15] <zeeshan|2> but then again they are ac servos
[16:49:22] <zeeshan|2> i'm not trying to argue with you
[16:49:30] <zeeshan|2> im just curious why you did what you did, because i didn't do it like you
[16:49:31] <ssi> tell me this
[16:49:44] <ssi> in what world is it a bad thing that I made my machine safer than you think it should be?
[16:49:58] <pcw_home> typically E-Stop kills power to to servo/step drives and spindle/laser/welder but not the control
[16:50:07] <ssi> pcw_home: that's exactly how I have mine set up
[16:50:14] <zeeshan|2> my logic behind not killing the power supply during e-stop was only because during the initial start of a g-code program, i usuaully rely on e-stop before a tool crash
[16:50:15] <ssi> 12v and 5v supplies are on with main disconnect
[16:50:23] <ssi> 48v and 35kv are machine controlled, and depend on estop
[16:50:26] <zeeshan|2> which means if my power supply shuts off
[16:50:31] <zeeshan|2> i will probably lose positioning of the steppers
[16:50:43] <zeeshan|2> and also i keep on having to draw large inrush currents
[16:50:46] <ssi> zeeshan|2: my machine requires a rehome anytime the machine disables
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[16:50:50] <zeeshan|2> everytime i power the supply back on out of e-stop mode
[16:51:29] <zeeshan|2> i asked you what you did to see if i overlooked something
[16:51:37] <Connor> ssi: pcw_home: My 48v PSU has a "JUMPER" for a on/off switch. I can use THAT to disable power to my steppers.. you think that's safe vs killing the mains ?
[16:51:37] <zeeshan|2> not to argue with you
[16:51:38] <zeeshan|2> !
[16:52:04] <Connor> It's low voltage/amperage..
[16:52:07] <ssi> Connor: I'm sure it's fine
[16:52:16] <ssi> personally I like being able to switch the supplies with machine control
[16:52:19] <Connor> the MAIN disconnect will go on the AC side.
[16:52:20] <ssi> even if it doesn't matter
[16:52:30] <zeeshan|2> if you look at any industrial machine
[16:52:35] <zeeshan|2> e-stop will never kill the power to the mains
[16:52:45] <ssi> estop doesn't kill the power to the mains on my machine either
[16:52:52] <zeeshan|2> all your subsystems work like coolant etc
[16:53:05] <zeeshan|2> the only thing e-stop ensures is the motors dont move
[16:53:13] <zeeshan|2> you can even turn on coolant in e-stop mode
[16:53:23] <ssi> I can turn on coolant in estop mode
[16:53:23] <zeeshan|2> and lubricate the machine
[16:53:25] <ssi> just not the laser
[16:53:34] <ssi> or the steppers
[16:53:43] <ssi> I still don't see why this is an issue for you :P
[16:53:48] <Connor> I'm going to have to draw up a new schematic for my machine.
[16:53:56] <zeeshan|2> its your machine how you do what you do is your business!
[16:53:57] <jdh> mine is self documenting
[16:54:02] <ssi> yes, yes it is
[16:54:05] <Connor> ssi: He likes to argue?
[16:54:09] <Connor> jdh: What ?
[16:54:11] <ssi> furthermore it's set up correctly
[16:54:15] <ssi> Connor: yes, yes he does
[16:54:23] <Rab> I think there's a whole class of faults where you'd want "hard" estop. Controller crashes and sends an endless stream of steps, etc.
[16:54:23] <zeeshan|2> i'm just saying that its a little too hardcourse IMO <- keyword to turn of power to your stepper power supply
[16:54:39] <ssi> Rab: agreed
[16:54:44] <jdh> Connor: my wiring (and my code)
[16:54:46] <Rab> I would never trust estop as a software or firmware function.
[16:54:58] <Connor> jdh: How is it self documenting ?
[16:55:06] <zeeshan|2> rab that's not the arguement here
[16:55:12] <jdh> estop is hardware, otherwise it is hope-e-stop
[16:55:17] <ssi> jdh: ;)
[16:55:24] <jdh> Connor: follow the wires
[16:55:29] <Connor> ROFL
[16:55:34] <zeeshan|2> the arguement here is it necessary to kill the power to the stepper power supply versus just sending a disable signal through a hardware relay to your stepper drivers to disable it.
[16:55:38] <jdh> or find taht piece of paper I scribbled on
[16:55:43] <Connor> Pete has his limit switches in series with his E-Stop
[16:55:47] <pcw_home> Connor: in general you always remove the AC power never interrupt the DC unless you have specific protection from the inductive load dump you will get
[16:56:18] <ssi> pcw_home: I think he was saying the supply has a disable input
[16:56:22] <ssi> which presumably should be safe
[16:56:41] <zeeshan|2> that sounds a lot better than turning off the mains
[16:56:44] <Connor> It does. I would never switch the DC side.. only the AC side or use this disable pin
[16:56:50] <zeeshan|2> which means if you rapidly press e-stop on and off like some machine operators do
[16:56:52] <zeeshan|2> you won't fry the supply
[16:56:58] <Rab> zeeshan|2, the fire argument is valid. You need to remove energy from the equation. Or, maybe somebody or something is pinned by motor holding torque.
[16:57:02] <ssi> my laser supply has a bunch of different interlocks on it, but I still prefer it have the AC removed unless teh machine is enabled
[16:57:04] <jdh> on a big machine with a big servo, limit switches sound good as e-stop chain
[16:57:15] <ssi> not much scares me, but that freakin 35kv 40mA supply gives me the willies
[16:57:31] <zeeshan|2> rab i totally agree and thats why you have a main disconnect switch on the main responsible for that
[16:57:33] <pcw_home> For a small system, OK for servos not sure I would trust a power supply disable pin
[16:57:59] <zeeshan|2> the fire procedure is usually: E-stop, turn off main disconnect, fire extinguisher
[16:58:02] <Connor> I'm not even sure it's a disable pin.. more like a On/Off
[16:58:09] <ssi> pcw_home: yeah... if it were me, I'd put a relay behind the AC to the power supply
[16:58:14] <ssi> ....which I did
[16:58:21] <ssi> but I have an abundance of IO and extra relays
[16:58:22] <jdh> ssi: good move.
[16:58:41] <ssi> if I were trying to fit all my crap into a parport bob I might have done differently ;)
[16:58:51] <pcw_home> yeah no squalid state devices in the Estop chain
[16:59:00] <zeeshan|2> ssi so if you press your e-stop button on and off really quickly
[16:59:02] <zeeshan|2> what happens? :p
[16:59:06] <jdh> ssi: bah, all you need is a pport and steppers
[16:59:48] <ssi> zeeshan|2: relays make a bunch of noise, probably
[16:59:53] <Rab> zeeshan|2, your use case is valid, but I think I would prefer a big "feed hold" and a big "estop" button, because I think those are separate purposes.
[17:00:29] <Rab> One is under your thumb, one is in front of your face. ;)
[17:00:33] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:00:35] <zeeshan|2> i totally agree
[17:00:40] <ssi> bunch of noise on the mains, some transients, the supplies probably won't care that much
[17:00:50] <zeeshan|2> but you'd be suprised how much $18/hr machine operators abuse the e-stop button
[17:00:54] <ssi> then again, I'm not gonna let some monkey screw with my machine
[17:01:22] <zeeshan|2> at the end of the days both ways are just as acceptable
[17:01:28] <zeeshan|2> and both have their logic behind it
[17:01:35] <ssi> If I were really worried about it, I'd write a component or something which puts a delay on the estop enable
[17:02:07] <zeeshan|2> ssi from my understanding of electronics (remember im a mechanical eng)
[17:02:15] <ssi> how could I forget
[17:02:18] <zeeshan|2> everytime you have a surge of in-rush current
[17:02:26] <zeeshan|2> you're wearing the power components
[17:02:33] <ssi> "wearing"?
[17:02:34] <zeeshan|2> like when i worked at eaton
[17:02:51] <zeeshan|2> each contactor had a finite number of switches
[17:02:59] <zeeshan|2> for a certain kva
[17:03:10] <zeeshan|2> cause everytime you press e-stop
[17:03:16] <zeeshan|2> you'll get an arc at your relay
[17:03:21] <zeeshan|2> or contactor
[17:03:29] <ssi> for big stuff, yes
[17:03:40] <zeeshan|2> kva is kva
[17:03:50] <zeeshan|2> it goes up and down depending onthe size of the switch
[17:03:54] <zeeshan|2> or contactor
[17:04:10] <ssi> the contact erosion is a factor of the voltage
[17:04:17] <Connor> OKAY.. PSU has R.C.G and R.C. with SHORT: ON / OPEN: OFF
[17:04:23] <ssi> if you switch 10V through a 1kv switch, you don't get 1kv wear
[17:04:30] <zeeshan|2> ofcourse
[17:04:43] <zeeshan|2> are you sure its a function of voltage only?
[17:04:57] <zeeshan|2> i thought it was rated in kva because it's a function of both current and voltage
[17:05:09] <ssi> no, I'm not sure
[17:05:20] <ssi> doesn't matter
[17:05:29] <zeeshan|2> also from my understanding
[17:05:30] <ssi> in my case, I'm not super concerned about the lifespan of my chinese relays
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[17:05:37] <Connor> here is the manual..
[17:05:39] <Connor> http://www.meanwell.com/search/PSP-600/PSP-600-spec.pdf
[17:05:40] <zeeshan|2> when you go from 0V to say 80V on the capacitors
[17:05:44] <zeeshan|2> you're also wearing out the caps
[17:05:49] <zeeshan|2> how it happens i have 0 idea
[17:05:52] <ssi> eh, not really
[17:05:56] <roycroft> bash is still vulnerable after the first patch, but i have the second patch now
[17:05:58] <Connor> anyone want to look at the logic and see if RC. G. and RC are safe vs switching the AC ?
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[17:06:09] <roycroft> if you patched last night, you need to patch again
[17:06:14] <ssi> there is inrush, but if you're pulsing the relay rapidly like in this scenario you've made up
[17:06:23] <ssi> the inrush is actually going to be small because the caps won't discharge between cycles
[17:06:29] <ssi> remember, AC is already AC
[17:06:44] <ssi> all you're doing is chopping the AC, which puts square edged transients on the line
[17:06:48] <zeeshan|2> im talkking about the Dc side caps
[17:06:52] <zeeshan|2> after rectifying
[17:07:21] <ssi> there's no load current if the machine's not enabled and motors aren't moving
[17:07:26] <zeeshan|2> like if you press e-stop when the motors are moving
[17:07:31] <ssi> the output caps aren't gonna discharge either
[17:07:32] <zeeshan|2> wouldnt those dc side caps be discharged already
[17:07:36] <ssi> no
[17:07:37] <zeeshan|2> cause the stepper was consuming power
[17:07:51] <ssi> if the caps are discharged, the drives are seeing 0V
[17:08:39] <zeeshan|2> lies!
[17:08:47] <ssi> ok
[17:09:20] <ssi> I know you're an engineering student and therefore know everything
[17:09:21] <zeeshan|2> you';re thinking of the scenario when the machine isn't enabled and motors arent moving
[17:09:22] <ssi> so you win
[17:09:34] <zeeshan|2> i'm talking about the scenario which you'll encounter most of the time
[17:09:45] <zeeshan|2> which is when you press e-stop cause your tool is about to crash
[17:10:00] <zeeshan|2> ssi i'm not an eng student i'm an engineer
[17:10:07] <zeeshan|2> i'm doing my masters
[17:10:08] <ssi> whatever
[17:10:14] <ssi> you're close enough to school to still think you have it all figured out
[17:10:21] <zeeshan|2> so when your tool crashes
[17:10:29] <zeeshan|2> your motors were moving at the time of e-stop
[17:10:36] <zeeshan|2> so that means asap you press e-stop the mains disconnect
[17:10:44] * skunkworks gets some popcorn..
[17:10:53] <zeeshan|2> and the motors will decelerate and consume the electricity stored in the caps
[17:10:59] <zeeshan|2> so they've gone down to 0
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[17:11:02] <zeeshan|2> by the time they've stopped
[17:11:07] <zeeshan|2> isn't that correct?
[17:11:10] <ssi> why would they consume any power?
[17:11:27] <ssi> the drive enables dropped at the same time, so the drives aren't pulsing anymore
[17:11:35] <ssi> the decel is actually putting power back into the drives
[17:11:45] <ssi> not that we're gonna count that
[17:11:51] <zeeshan|2> okay i get you
[17:11:53] <zeeshan|2> that makes sense
[17:12:16] <ssi> I think likely you'll see the output caps of the psu drop off exponentially based on the time constant of their size, the unloaded impedance of the drive, and any bleeder resistor
[17:12:23] <ssi> at any rate, none of that is anything like hard on the psu
[17:12:25] <skunkworks> zeeshan|2, there are some machines that actally have relays between the servos and the drives that short out the servos (or run them through a low resistor...)
[17:12:27] <ssi> it's pretty much a given
[17:12:42] <mozmck> actually, with motors of any size the back emf can cause a voltage spike.
[17:12:45] <zeeshan|2> skunkworks: no doubt
[17:12:53] <zeeshan|2> but ihave yet to see a machine (im sure thjere are some)
[17:13:02] <zeeshan|2> that drop power from the mains when you press e-stop
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[17:13:32] <zeeshan|2> and since i've built a toy
[17:13:47] <zeeshan|2> and apparently never worked on industrial machines i intrepreted schematics
[17:13:48] <zeeshan|2> i dont know shit
[17:13:55] <mozmck> All of our power supplies do just that. Kill AC power, and drain the caps through a resistor to stop motors fast as possible
[17:13:58] <zeeshan|2> and me trying to clarify makes me an engineering student that knows all
[17:14:10] <zeeshan|2> is it the way i talk or something that irritates people?
[17:14:11] <jdh> glad we have that cleared up.
[17:14:46] <jdh> Z: ltfu
[17:14:46] <ssi> zeeshan|2: you posited a scenario, I told you how it works, you called me a liar, said I didn't know what I was talking about or misunderstood your question, then when it was restated realized that you might actually not know what you're talking about
[17:14:46] <roycroft> irc irritates people, generally
[17:14:51] <ssi> zeeshan|2: think about that
[17:15:01] <zeeshan|2> jdh i dont know that abbreviation
[17:15:14] <ssi> zeeshan|2: remember back to the time that you actually called me retarded for wanting a fast machine, and how you've since realized you didn't understand my application
[17:15:21] <ssi> zeeshan|2: maybe consider your approach :)
[17:16:05] <zeeshan|2> mozmck: the machines in e-stop that i've seen disable the drive
[17:16:09] <zeeshan|2> and enable brake at the same time
[17:16:33] <zeeshan|2> ssi i can see how calling you a liar would offend you and that is my bad.
[17:16:42] <zeeshan|2> but you were getting irritated before that
[17:16:53] <zeeshan|2> and i think it's because i was wrong about your application
[17:16:59] <zeeshan|2> and you still hold that against me
[17:17:17] <ssi> let me put it this way
[17:17:30] <ssi> I didn't solicit your advice on my setup
[17:17:39] <zeeshan|2> and i also mentioned im not an electronics expert
[17:17:40] <ssi> I'm perfectly comfortable with it
[17:17:43] <zeeshan|2> for 1 damn good reason
[17:17:48] <zeeshan|2> because i was curious to know why you did what you did
[17:17:49] <ssi> I'm sorry if you think it's unnecesssary
[17:17:59] <ssi> well let me give you a pro tip
[17:19:29] <ssi> asking questions about how and why from a position of mutual respect will go a long way
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[17:19:48] <ssi> making statements in an accusatory, know-it-all way is not going to win you friends
[17:19:57] <ssi> and it's not like this is an isolated incident
[17:20:04] <zeeshan|2> so it is my approach
[17:20:09] <ssi> I'm not trying to be a dick here, you can be cool
[17:20:17] <zeeshan|2> no you're right
[17:20:20] <ssi> but you do some things that will alienate people
[17:20:23] <zeeshan|2> i've pissed off quite a few people before
[17:20:33] <zeeshan|2> and i'm glad you pointed it out
[17:20:47] <zeeshan|2> see this is where i need to explain something
[17:20:51] <ssi> I know I can be a hothead, and I don't mean to be
[17:21:07] <zeeshan|2> the way i understand things is when i say something the way i understand it
[17:21:14] <Connor> It comes across as a little condescending.
[17:21:15] <zeeshan|2> and let the other say otherwise
[17:21:35] <zeeshan|2> like for example, i setup my e-stop a certain way so i understand it that way
[17:21:54] <zeeshan|2> i will usually ask questions about yours
[17:21:58] <zeeshan|2> to see why you did what you did
[17:22:11] <ssi> if I were discussing my setup, and someone said "hey you know, that's really not a safe way to do it, you should consider X"
[17:22:12] <zeeshan|2> so if i agree with your methjod, i can implement in my method
[17:22:22] <ssi> but your comment was more like "why would you bother doing X, that's stupid"
[17:22:46] <zeeshan|2> thats where i really need to i guess fix how i talk
[17:22:51] <zeeshan|2> because i didn't mean your way was stupid at all
[17:22:54] <zeeshan|2> or uncessary
[17:23:00] <zeeshan|2> *unnecessary
[17:23:09] <ssi> but then you started concocting implausible scenarios to "prove" why my method might be a bad thing
[17:23:22] <zeeshan|2> i did that to see if you considered those scenarios
[17:23:28] <ssi> that's the "need to be right" thing
[17:23:32] <zeeshan|2> because those were the scenarios i considered to do my method
[17:23:43] <zeeshan|2> and when you told me you did
[17:23:50] <zeeshan|2> it made me realize, both methods work
[17:24:07] <ssi> I honestly never considered the scenario where some mouth breather decided it would be a good idea to push the estop button a thousand times a second
[17:24:23] <ssi> but now, having considered it, I'm thoroughly unconcerned about it
[17:25:01] <zeeshan|2> one day i'll speak to a emag cnc machine designer
[17:25:08] <zeeshan|2> and ask them why the hell they dont kill the power to the mains
[17:25:08] <zeeshan|2> :P
[17:25:18] <ssi> you keep saying kill power to the mains
[17:25:23] <zeeshan|2> mains to the drive
[17:25:23] <ssi> I don't kill power to the mains
[17:25:30] <zeeshan|2> sorry i am being lazy
[17:25:37] <pcw_home> smarter drives will just wait for power valid for some time before startup
[17:25:52] <ssi> pcw_home: true
[17:26:08] <pcw_home> so you can cycle the power all you like but the drives will just wait for you to regain your senses
[17:26:14] <ssi> heheh
[17:27:03] <fogl_> hello everybody - just one simple question: why does program stops after "T1 M6"? Execute next line does not help. I would like to continue without the stopping - how?
[17:27:20] <Connor> ONE thing to consider.. with steppers / ballscrews and a Z with E-Stop..
[17:27:21] <ssi> fogl_: probably you have the default manual toolchanger wiring in hal?
[17:27:29] <ssi> fogl_: and it's waiting for you to put in the new tool and acknowledge it
[17:27:33] <Connor> Removing power from the STEPPER might be a BAD thing.
[17:27:43] <Connor> might cause the Z to come down and crash.
[17:28:03] <Connor> No fail-safe break
[17:28:10] <ssi> Connor: yeah... honestly I prefer having a counterweight or brake on Z of a mill
[17:28:13] <fogl_> @ssi: will check that, thank you for the fast response :)
[17:28:17] <ssi> fogl_: you bet :)
[17:28:29] <Connor> my G0704 doesn't
[17:28:33] <ssi> mine will
[17:28:39] <ssi> I'm gonna use these parker servos, and they have brakes in them
[17:28:46] <Connor> and.. I've not really designed it too.
[17:29:14] <pcw_home> yes step motors lose pretty much all holding torque if spinning
[17:29:16] <ssi> a gas strut counterweight might be an easy way to go
[17:29:41] <Connor> I just drew up the circuit to kill the stepper PSU on E-Stop.. thinking about it.. that might not be a good idea.
[17:29:45] <ssi> I wonder if you could set up a relay to short the coils of the stepper on estop
[17:29:56] <ssi> Connor: if you disable the drives, does the Z hold?
[17:30:02] <Connor> No.
[17:30:10] <ssi> if you short the coils, does it hold?
[17:30:13] <pcw_home> it doesnt relay help
[17:30:23] <Connor> That' I don't know.
[17:30:30] <zeeshan|2> ssi how much were they
[17:30:35] <ssi> zeeshan|2: how much were what?
[17:30:39] <zeeshan|2> the parker servos
[17:30:41] <zeeshan|2> w/ brakes
[17:30:50] <ssi> i paid 125 apiece for them
[17:30:51] <ssi> on ebay
[17:31:03] <ssi> they're 260W
[17:31:08] <zeeshan|2> the mikron im pretty sure has no brakes on the X and Y
[17:31:11] <zeeshan|2> which i really would like
[17:31:16] <ssi> brakes on X/Y aren't super critical
[17:31:17] <zeeshan|2> might just be easier to sell those servos
[17:31:19] <zeeshan|2> and grab brakes
[17:31:20] <pcw_home> (if moving at a decent clip the stepmotors inductance doesn't allow much current to flow)
[17:31:21] <Connor> Up till this point.. I've not worried with it.. because I'm still using stock screws..
[17:31:23] <zeeshan|2> i know
[17:31:28] <zeeshan|2> but theyre nice to have
[17:31:34] <zeeshan|2> when you're doing heavy milling in one direction
[17:31:58] <zeeshan|2> like .25 doc w/ a 3" face mill
[17:32:04] <zeeshan|2> along Y
[17:32:14] <ssi> would you actually lock the brake for that?
[17:32:19] <ssi> I haven't decided how best to do that
[17:32:19] <CaptHindsight> small brakes are pricey new
[17:32:32] <ssi> I figured the brake would only be for when the drive was disabled
[17:33:01] <zeeshan|2> some of the fancier machines at work had brakes that worked all the time
[17:33:12] <CaptHindsight> spring loaded brake with solenoid, when the power is lost the spring engages the brake
[17:33:21] <ssi> the control would have to know how to use it
[17:33:25] <zeeshan|2> yes
[17:33:28] <ssi> I'm not sure if there's provision for it in lcnc
[17:33:35] <zeeshan|2> i really wish i stored all those manuals
[17:33:37] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I won three more gemini drives on ebay this morning
[17:33:39] <zeeshan|2> with the diagrams
[17:33:48] <ssi> CaptHindsight: U6E 1.8kw drives, $99 + $30 shipping for all three :D
[17:33:57] <CaptHindsight> great deal
[17:34:03] <ssi> yeah!
[17:34:18] <ssi> if I get this VMC, I'm gonna try to use the U12E drives for it, and the U6E for the g0704
[17:35:05] <zeeshan|2> ssi you machine hoarder
[17:35:16] <ssi> wat
[17:35:22] <zeeshan|2> why 2 mills
[17:35:28] <ssi> that'd be 3 mills actually
[17:35:31] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:35:34] <ssi> counting my manual
[17:35:38] <zeeshan|2> you're crazy :P
[17:35:44] <ssi> and I had 3 lathes, but I sold one two weeks ago
[17:35:56] <ssi> plus two jet cutting machines
[17:36:00] <archivist> you can never have too many machines
[17:36:04] <ssi> archivist: hear hear!
[17:36:18] <zeeshan|2> i think i'll be happy with cnc lathe and mill
[17:36:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mcmaster.com/#brakes/=tw5mkv these mini brakes cost more than a servo
[17:36:21] <zeeshan|2> i've cut the plasma idea
[17:36:25] <zeeshan|2> no need for plasma anymore
[17:36:31] <zeeshan|2> takes too much space
[17:36:39] <zeeshan|2> though it'd bne nice to have to do bigger panels
[17:36:47] <ssi> CaptHindsight: yea :/
[17:36:57] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I want to build a 4x8 router
[17:37:16] <ssi> I need to get one of the 100x80' hangars :(
[17:37:28] <zeeshan|2> i honestly would have to move something lkike that
[17:37:30] <zeeshan|2> into my backyard
[17:37:33] <zeeshan|2> and it'd sit outside all the time
[17:37:33] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:37:59] <zeeshan|2> if iever build one
[17:37:59] <archivist> build a shed (large)
[17:38:02] <zeeshan|2> it'll be time to move out from my house
[17:38:08] <zeeshan|2> the machines
[17:38:18] <zeeshan|2> my dad has this property in the boonies from 1hr from me
[17:38:25] <zeeshan|2> its literally a piecf 2 acre land
[17:38:27] <zeeshan|2> random.
[17:38:34] <ssi> Connor: have you considered a gas spring? might be the cheapest easiest way to deal with it
[17:38:35] <zeeshan|2> he told me i can build a workshop there if i want to
[17:38:55] <Connor> Not even sure I'll need it yet.
[17:39:05] <zeeshan|2> i looked at the cost, it''s prolly 60k for a metal building, electrical and plumbing
[17:39:09] <zeeshan|2> insulated
[17:39:12] <zeeshan|2> 40x40
[17:39:14] <ssi> zeeshan|2: yeah sounds about right
[17:39:15] <Connor> I'll have to see when I get the screw installed.. the Z being double ballnut.. might provide enough resistance
[17:39:28] <zeeshan|2> hopefully ill never be as hardcore as you ssi :)
[17:39:37] <ssi> zeeshan|2: if I could get a land lease at an airport, I'd put up a 100x100 or 120x120 building and put a loft apartment in it
[17:39:42] <ssi> rent out my house and live there
[17:39:45] <zeeshan|2> haah
[17:40:00] <ssi> I figure it'll be $200k or so to build it out
[17:40:13] <ssi> might be $1500/mo for the note and $1000/mo for the land lease
[17:40:15] <zeeshan|2> to me the 40x40 only makes sense
[17:40:18] <zeeshan|2> if i decide to make a business out of it
[17:40:21] <zeeshan|2> but i doubt i will
[17:40:26] <zeeshan|2> long term career is engineering consulting
[17:40:43] <zeeshan|2> but i do want machines to prototype things on
[17:41:00] <zeeshan|2> which i think a 5 axis mill will handle and lathe
[17:42:45] <zeeshan|2> ssi im eating your brain tonight
[17:42:55] <zeeshan|2> ill have the limit switches/home switches wired
[17:43:04] <zeeshan|2> and hopefully this pull up on pin 15
[17:43:22] <zeeshan|2> i really want to get my tool table setup tonight
[17:43:23] <ssi> I should go pull a pneumo fitting out of the hardinge and start trying to source tehm
[17:43:48] <zeeshan|2> make it
[17:43:48] <zeeshan|2> :D
[17:44:50] <ssi> no it's just little pneumatic fittings
[17:44:58] <ssi> they're all compression now, I want to replace everything with push to connect and new tubing
[17:44:59] <zeeshan|2> ... i still cant get this off my mind
[17:45:02] <zeeshan|2> i dont piss people off in real life
[17:45:04] <ssi> but I need to pull one to figure out what the size is
[17:45:07] <zeeshan|2> and i have a lotta friends
[17:45:13] <zeeshan|2> but its easy for me to piss people off online
[17:45:21] <ssi> text is a hard medium
[17:45:28] <zeeshan|2> i really think it's partly because theres no way to communicate "emotion"
[17:45:41] <zeeshan|2> so its easy to percieve someone as hostile/arrogant
[17:45:54] <zeeshan|2> which also means, if i e-mail someone
[17:46:00] <zeeshan|2> i definitely come across as arrogant
[17:46:06] <zeeshan|2> which is not good for the work place
[17:46:37] <zeeshan|2> and i just read your comment now
[17:46:39] <zeeshan|2> "compression fittings"
[17:46:46] <zeeshan|2> i found that shit on a guys fuel lines before
[17:46:49] <zeeshan|2> scary.
[17:47:07] <zeeshan|2> he wanted me to put ss teflon hose and replace the hardlines
[17:47:14] <zeeshan|2> i pulled the damn fitting off with my hand
[17:48:48] <zeeshan|2> what is the best way to wire a resistor inline
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[17:48:58] <zeeshan|2> if i had to do it on a car, i would cut the resistor leads as small as possible
[17:49:06] <zeeshan|2> shove them into the wire on both sides and solder
[17:49:18] <zeeshan|2> then heatshrink on top of that (the hard kind of heat shrink, not soft)
[17:49:27] <zeeshan|2> to give rigidity to that section of the wire
[17:49:41] <zeeshan|2> before when i was using soft heat shrink, there would be an internal break within the solder joint
[17:49:43] <zeeshan|2> over time
[17:49:48] <zeeshan|2> is there a better way?
[17:50:06] <ssi> I have a couple inline resistors in the airplane
[17:50:19] <ssi> I use small (white) amp butt connectors and crimp them
[17:50:29] <ssi> the resistor ends up almost entirely covered by the insulation end of the butt connectors
[17:50:44] <ssi> then I put some heat shrink around that to keep it from flexing and breaking the leads
[17:51:10] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if theres resistors
[17:51:12] <zeeshan|2> with a thicker lead
[17:51:15] <zeeshan|2> so it doesnt break as easy
[17:51:28] <zeeshan|2> a power resistor might be a little too hardcore for a pull up resistor
[17:51:47] <Rab> zeeshan|2, I wouldn't cut the leads close to the resistor. That places more stress on the package, and package crumbling is a common mechanical failure mode.
[17:52:04] <zeeshan|2> rab but the leads are so ductile
[17:52:09] <zeeshan|2> its really easy to bend
[17:52:45] <Rab> zeeshan|2, solder it across some kind of terminal strip. Solder the wires to the strip and shrink-wrap the whole thing. (Assuming little power dissipation).
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[17:54:11] <Rab> Or tie it down so there's no mechanical stress on it, just like any other solid-core wire.
[17:54:26] <CaptHindsight> I'm a bit surprised that somebody doesn't make a simple spring loaded brake with a few Nm of holding torque
[17:54:47] <zeeshan|2> will try
[17:55:01] <CaptHindsight> that isn't hundreds of $$
[17:58:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.zoro.com/g/Brake/00025698/?category=5997
[18:00:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MAYR-ELECTRIC-BRAKE-RSM-8-891-102-0-S-K4119683-30-WATT-16-NM-/330824800711
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[18:16:16] <ssi> I think I know what's wrong with the hardinge
[18:16:18] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: we use one like your second link
[18:16:35] <zeeshan|2> for our electrical motor dyno
[18:16:39] <zeeshan|2> lab
[18:16:48] <zeeshan|2> ssi what
[18:17:00] <ssi> I think a fitting came loose
[18:17:04] <ssi> needs to be brazed in tho
[18:17:10] <ssi> or soldered in I guess
[18:17:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEW-EURODRIVE-BMG4-ELECTRIC-MOTOR-BRAKE-110V-110-V-VOLT-40NM-40-NM-/291227163054
[18:18:26] <zeeshan|2> what kind of fitting
[18:18:35] <ssi> it's a valve
[18:18:40] <ssi> I'll put pics up in a sec
[18:18:49] <CaptHindsight> it easier to find large brakes for 1/2 -2 HP applications than for nema 23 size stepper applications
[18:19:36] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: if you wanna do it the redneck method way
[18:19:48] <zeeshan|2> you can try something similar to what i did
[18:19:55] <CaptHindsight> AC clutch
[18:19:59] <zeeshan|2> haha yea
[18:20:09] <zeeshan|2> but the AC clutch
[18:20:14] <zeeshan|2> the magnetic field lines are axial
[18:20:22] <zeeshan|2> from what i recall.
[18:20:28] <zeeshan|2> so you'll need 2 surfaces with friction on it
[18:20:29] <zeeshan|2> to make it work
[18:20:45] <zeeshan|2> plus you get to see what the inside of an ac compressor looks like
[18:20:48] <zeeshan|2> when youre taking it all apart
[18:20:51] <zeeshan|2> :D
[18:20:58] <CaptHindsight> I'm trying not build it as I have to build everything else
[18:21:47] <CaptHindsight> I have yet to discover the secret Chinese source for small electric brakes
[18:22:05] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I have yet to discover the secret chinese source for small pneumatic solenoids
[18:22:20] <zeeshan|2> arent omron solenoids made in china
[18:22:38] <CaptHindsight> ssi: pneumatic operated?
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[18:24:32] <ssi> electrically
[18:24:43] <CaptHindsight> what size do you need?
[18:24:45] <ssi> just simple electric on/off
[18:24:46] <ssi> um
[18:24:59] <CaptHindsight> what size fittings? 2/3/4 way?
[18:25:04] <ssi> 1/4" npt thru, and 1/2" npt thru would take care of my immediate needs
[18:25:07] <ssi> I guess 2 way
[18:25:07] <CaptHindsight> what voltage
[18:25:12] <ssi> I'm stupid when it comes to pneumo stuff
[18:25:13] <zeeshan|2> ssi give me pics!
[18:25:18] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Byep0UyIMAAATEB.jpg:large
[18:25:30] <ssi> any voltage... 12v would be great, 24v works
[18:25:32] <zeeshan|2> what is owned
[18:25:35] <ssi> I need it for a few things
[18:25:39] <ssi> zeeshan|2: that vertical fitting
[18:25:41] <ssi> zeeshan|2: came out with the hose
[18:25:45] <ssi> I just had to cut the hose off it
[18:25:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2V025-08-AC-220V-PT1-4-Solenoid-Valve-2-Position-2-Way-IP65-/261605096730 oh 220V hold on
[18:25:51] <ssi> I think it was swaged in before
[18:25:59] <zeeshan|2> that looks like a barb fitting
[18:26:01] <zeeshan|2> for rubber hose
[18:26:05] <ssi> it is
[18:26:24] <zeeshan|2> so that fitting is free out of that hex block right now?
[18:26:31] <ssi> yeah I can pull it out with my fingers
[18:26:39] <zeeshan|2> can yolu see threads?
[18:26:47] <ssi> no it's not threaded
[18:27:05] <zeeshan|2> so its supposed to be a press fit
[18:27:15] <ssi> press fit, or swaged on the back end
[18:27:24] <ssi> doesn't appear that it was brazed or soldered previously
[18:27:34] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt look brazed though
[18:27:35] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByeqmzWIAAA_SHe.jpg:large
[18:27:36] <zeeshan|2> or soldered
[18:27:41] <zeeshan|2> yea
[18:27:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Pneumatic-Solenoid-Valve-/141414801053
[18:27:43] <zeeshan|2> thats a press fit fitting
[18:27:45] <zeeshan|2> 100%
[18:27:54] <zeeshan|2> they do the same thing for car water pumps
[18:27:57] <ssi> what's my best bet for securing/sealing it
[18:28:15] <zeeshan|2> if you want the cheapest / quickest method
[18:28:20] <ssi> CaptHindsight: that'd likely be great for the laser air assist
[18:28:22] <zeeshan|2> i'd just use some jb weld.
[18:28:36] <ssi> and I see a 1/2" one in the related list that'd likely work for my remote compressor shutoff
[18:28:38] <zeeshan|2> after cleaning that
[18:28:40] <ssi> zeeshan|2: hm not a bad idea
[18:28:48] <zeeshan|2> if the brass part isnt deformed
[18:28:50] <ssi> I wish I could take this valve body apart
[18:28:52] <zeeshan|2> you can probably also just use loctite
[18:28:53] <zeeshan|2> red
[18:28:55] <ssi> it's not, and it fits pretty tightly
[18:29:00] <ssi> yeah that's not a bad idea either
[18:29:07] <zeeshan|2> okay i'd clean both the surfaces and loctite
[18:29:17] <zeeshan|2> your base metal looks like zinc
[18:29:23] <zeeshan|2> shit is nasty to weld / braze
[18:29:39] <ssi> eh i'm not concerned about zinc toxicity
[18:29:42] <ssi> more about fucking it up
[18:29:44] <zeeshan|2> and if ALL else fails
[18:29:51] <zeeshan|2> you can tap it to 1/8 npt
[18:29:56] <zeeshan|2> and use a 1/8 npt to barb fitting
[18:30:03] <ssi> dunno how well that'd go
[18:30:10] <ssi> it's a valve, so there's mechanical stuff below the hole
[18:30:28] <zeeshan|2> i dont know what that valve is for
[18:30:31] <zeeshan|2> but the way the design looks like
[18:30:38] <zeeshan|2> it looks like theres a ball in there with aspring behind it
[18:30:41] <ssi> it's a mead HT-100P
[18:30:50] <ssi> can't find any data on it yet
[18:31:00] <zeeshan|2> if you take off the hex on the left
[18:31:14] <zeeshan|2> you'll see :P
[18:31:21] <ssi> I put a fair amount of torque on both and neither wanted to move
[18:31:26] <ssi> don't want to ruin it
[18:31:31] <zeeshan|2> it's probably a left hand thread
[18:31:39] <ssi> http://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=00782343
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[18:32:08] <zeeshan|2> i really think loctite is the best solution
[18:32:10] <zeeshan|2> cause its so tight
[18:32:13] <ssi> yeah I'm gonna start there
[18:32:19] <zeeshan|2> cause if its that tight jb weld wont get deep enough
[18:32:20] <zeeshan|2> to stick
[18:32:33] <ssi> I'm going to have to get a lenght of hose and maybe a compression sleeve for it too
[18:32:38] <ssi> to replace what I cut off
[18:32:47] <zeeshan|2> you have a lathe
[18:32:52] <zeeshan|2> you can always make a slightly oversize fitting
[18:32:55] <zeeshan|2> for a stronger press fit :P
[18:32:58] <ssi> you realize it's the lathe I'm working on, right?
[18:33:01] <zeeshan|2> hjaha
[18:33:02] <zeeshan|2> doh
[18:33:24] <Connor> He has 2
[18:33:26] <zeeshan|2> dont you have 2
[18:33:32] <ssi> yeah, sorta
[18:33:36] <ssi> I haven't run the 602 in AGES
[18:33:51] <ssi> maybe this'll fix the hardinge tho
[18:33:51] <Connor> ssi: Just give me the 602 then. :)
[18:33:52] <ssi> that'd be nice
[18:33:58] <ssi> Connor: just give me $2500 and it's yours
[18:34:02] <zeeshan|2> haha
[18:34:03] <Connor> Ha
[18:34:09] <ssi> that's not an unreasonable price
[18:34:10] <zeeshan|2> ssi trying to fund the vmc
[18:34:12] <ssi> you couldn't build it for that
[18:34:16] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[18:34:28] <Connor> $1,349.00 brand new to the door
[18:34:55] <ssi> plus ballscrews, motors, motor mounts, leeson 3ph spindle motor, VFD, stepper drives, power supply, computer, spindle encoder, and mesa gear
[18:35:05] <Connor> Oh. it's CNCed
[18:35:07] <ssi> yes
[18:35:20] <Connor> Whats the diff on the G0602 and G0752 ?
[18:35:22] <ssi> not to mention tooling
[18:35:22] <zeeshan|2> i'd low ball you down to 2k
[18:35:23] <zeeshan|2> :D
[18:35:46] <ssi> The Model G0752 is a variable speed version of our G0602 10" x 22" Bench Lathe. It shares the same features and accessories as the G0602, but is equipped with a digital RPM display on the headstock. It also has electronic variable speed spindle control, which allows you to change spindle speeds with the simple turn of a dial—and while the lathe is still running!
[18:36:32] <Connor> So, a waste if your going to CNC it.
[18:36:34] <ssi> yep
[18:36:36] <zeeshan|2> ssi if i offered 2200
[18:36:40] <zeeshan|2> would you take it
[18:36:43] <zeeshan|2> :P
[18:36:49] <ssi> yes, but I'd keep the vfd for the 704 :)
[18:36:53] <zeeshan|2> die
[18:36:54] <zeeshan|2> :D
[18:37:00] <zeeshan|2> i still think 2500 is a good price
[18:37:04] <ssi> it's a good price
[18:37:27] <Connor> Honestly.. I just want a Spindle/Index attachment for the G0704..
[18:37:41] <ssi> I was trying to get jdh to buy it, cause he needs it
[18:37:44] <ssi> but he's a cheapass :)
[18:37:46] <Connor> I wouldn't mind a 602
[18:37:52] <zeeshan|2> i'd through it on craigslist
[18:37:54] <zeeshan|2> and see what happens
[18:38:02] <zeeshan|2> i dont think you'll have a hard time selling it
[18:38:06] <ssi> yeah I'm thinking I'll clean it up, take some video of it running, and throw it up
[18:38:27] <ssi> anyway I need to go grab lunch and try to find stuff to fix this pneumo
[18:41:26] <Connor> Some jacka$$ had a 602 manual wanting 2500 for it..
[18:42:12] <Connor> Hey Look.. a 12x36 Asian for $2200 in Maryville...
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[18:57:20] <Connor> Hey guys, how well would a Geckodrive Servo Motor Driver G320X or equivalent be for driving a 4th axis spindle / index unit ? It uses step/dir.. my only issue with it is.. it doesn't use index..
[18:57:29] <Connor> and it's closed loop to the driver.. not linuxcnc.
[18:59:15] <Connor> tap tap ?
[18:59:17] <PCW> should be OK you can feed the index on to LinuxCNC
[18:59:34] <Connor> Should be able to do that..
[18:59:41] <Connor> would linuxcnc need the A and B too ?
[19:00:10] <PCW> might be nice
[19:00:11] <Connor> would be using it like a lathe spindle, or indexing
[19:01:13] <Connor> So, if we treat it like a stepper.. in spindle mode, it would run in torque mode....
[19:01:34] <Connor> with Encoder Feedback for threading/tapping
[19:01:49] <Connor> and in INdex mode, we step/dir mode ?
[19:02:08] <PCW> well the drive only has position mode AFAIK
[19:02:45] <PCW> but you could run as a velocity mode drive with encoder feedback
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[19:02:58] <Connor> that's what I meant when I said torque.
[19:03:31] <PCW> actual following error could be watched by linuxcnc
[19:03:52] <Connor> Don't those type of drivers require encoder input ?
[19:04:23] <PCW> Yes
[19:05:21] <Connor> okay. So run it in velocity mode.. with encoder feedback to both the drive and linuxcnc.. would that be enough to do high speed turning AND indexing ?
[19:05:34] <PCW> Yep
[19:06:08] <PCW> works like a velocity mode servo
[19:06:14] <Connor> and how does the present in linuxcnc ? as a single axis? or would I have 2 axis.. one for spindle mode and one for index ?
[19:06:53] <PCW> by index do you mean orient?
[19:07:05] <Connor> Yes.. like a rotary table.
[19:07:28] <Connor> say.. going to mill 6 flats on a round bar.
[19:07:46] <PCW> that I dont know (maybe the orient comp helps there)
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[19:07:54] <skunkworks> Connor, the link to the forum had andys config where he switched from velocity (spindle) to postion..
[19:08:07] <PCW> so thats a separate axis
[19:08:15] <Connor> I don't think the orient comp has enough precession.
[19:08:27] <Connor> its about .5degree
[19:08:30] <skunkworks> he was using a vfd - but should be a good start.
[19:08:54] <Connor> Probably best as a separate axis huh ?
[19:09:09] <PCW> maybe not (but with a normal spindle gearing you will not have a terribly stiff rotary axis_
[19:09:31] <Connor> was going to add a brake
[19:10:20] <Connor> What's a good top end speed for a lathe spindle ? 2.5k 3k ?
[19:10:48] <SpeedEvil> depends how small stuff you want to turn
[19:11:23] <Connor> 4" Chuck.. so.. it would range from 1/4" up
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[19:12:07] <archivist> collets for tiny stuff, fast as possible for brass
[19:12:15] <Connor> My concern with doing a DC based servo is finding a motor that will have enough RPM when geared down 2:1
[19:12:28] <Connor> Yea... the plan is 5C collet.
[19:12:48] <Connor> and convert my R8 4 jaw to 5C
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[19:13:57] <Connor> My treadmill motor will do 6800 RPM
[19:14:08] <Connor> but.. I think that's like at 120v or near it..
[19:14:22] <Connor> it's not rated for continues use at that voltage..
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[19:18:48] <tjtr33> just applied the fix for shellshock dunno if you guys are done already or aware at all http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2245631
[19:19:16] <tjtr33> the bash in 10.04 is vulnerable fer sure
[19:19:25] <Connor> Were is Andy at anyway'
[19:19:27] <Connor> ?
[19:19:38] <tjtr33> and today was a bash script M1xx coding day!
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[19:23:49] <tjtr33> can I access halui pins from python script?
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[19:28:39] <PCW> Connor: we have a encoder Y module for situations where you want to intercept t
[19:28:40] <PCW> he encoder signal (send it to two places) without compromising the termination
[19:28:57] <Connor> Oh Nice.
[19:29:36] <Connor> Only issue is.. I have no way to get the encoder in.. since the 7i76 only has one.. and it's already used by my normal spindle.
[19:29:55] <Connor> I'll have to use the 2nd port on the 5i25 and some sort of BOB
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[19:35:51] <bnmorgan> Dangit having to pick out a CAM program is a PITA
[19:36:15] <Connor> For simple Easy to use CHEAP CAM look at CAMBAM
[19:36:30] <bnmorgan> production shop grade?
[19:37:16] <Connor> It's $150.00
[19:37:38] <Connor> It DOES everything I've asked of it..
[19:37:46] <Connor> but.. it's not MasterCam
[19:37:47] <bnmorgan> gonna need 4 axis, possibly 5
[19:38:07] <Connor> Then No.
[19:38:12] <bnmorgan> have been looking at mastercam, and came across another one yesterday, espirit, but haven't found much or looked at it much yet.
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[19:38:33] <Connor> It Does Lathe and Milling.. 2.5D and Some 3D
[19:38:40] <Connor> but.. I don't think it does 4th axis.
[19:39:06] <bnmorgan> need to be able to run a 5 ax VF3 and a 4 ax VF2
[19:39:23] <Connor> Then your looking at high end stuff..
[19:39:30] <Connor> MasterCam probably the best bet.
[19:39:30] <bnmorgan> i know :(
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[20:05:16] <jdh> or gedit
[20:07:05] <Jymmm> "Welcome to McDonald's, would you like worms with that?" http://dailybuzzlive.com/mcdonalds-uses-worm-meat-fillers-can-legally-call-100-beef/
[20:09:20] <roycroft> frank burns eats worms
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[20:30:41] <ssi> back
[20:31:47] <ssi> mmm loctite is delicious
[20:32:34] <kfoltman_> is it like a tastier version of vegemite? ;)
[20:33:49] <ssi> not as far as I know
[20:33:53] <ssi> vegemite is very salty, right?
[20:33:57] <ssi> loctite is sugarwater :0
[20:33:58] <ssi> :)
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[20:44:02] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I think loctite is gonna work
[20:44:03] <ssi> it's pretty solid
[20:44:08] <ssi> about to try to put it all back together
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[21:36:33] <Connor> ssi What are you using loctite on ?
[21:44:10] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:49:32] <ssi> Connor: fixing the hnc
[21:49:35] <ssi> which... guess what?
[21:49:37] <ssi> I think I fixed it
[21:49:40] <ssi> toolchanger is working again
[21:50:53] <zeeshan|2> :D
[21:51:22] <ssi> have to clean the damn thing up and make some room around it
[21:51:25] <ssi> it hasn't been run in 2 years
[21:51:33] <syyl_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/Redux/pro_redux_47.JPG
[21:51:44] <syyl_> i think i need a smaller lathe
[21:51:53] <zeeshan|2> bnmorgan: if youre looking for production
[21:51:55] <ssi> syyl_: grip bushings?
[21:52:00] <zeeshan|2> bnmorgan: what CAD software are you using?
[21:52:01] <syyl_> yeah
[21:52:12] <ssi> syyl_: well when I get the hnc cleaned up I bet I can make them on it ;)
[21:52:22] <zeeshan|2> you can make those with a big lathe
[21:52:24] <zeeshan|2> jus tneed smaller tools!
[21:52:34] <ssi> yea but this is the sort of thing this machine is AWESOME at
[21:52:48] <ssi> tiny, tight precision parts
[21:53:02] <syyl_> my thread releafing tool is only 0,15mm wide, zeeshan|2 ;)
[21:53:06] <zeeshan|2> https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10346516_10153226325103135_3023692460178974982_n.jpg?oh=57b8f0ea8e91ab4789d4a6a76e2896f6&oe=54849687
[21:53:07] <zeeshan|2> ROFL
[21:53:23] <zeeshan|2> syyl_: cute
[21:53:32] <ssi> lol
[21:53:51] <syyl_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/Redux/pro_redux_45.JPG
[21:54:12] <ssi> hehe nice
[21:54:15] <zeeshan|2> syyl_: im suprised youre using a 3 jaw for that
[21:54:17] <zeeshan|2> and not a collet
[21:54:19] <ssi> fun working that close to the chuck
[21:54:25] <syyl_> i run er collets
[21:54:31] <syyl_> they cant chuck pieces that short
[21:54:36] <zeeshan|2> ah
[21:54:40] <syyl_> thats a pretty good chuck
[21:54:46] <zeeshan|2> yea i dont think my chuck would hold those either
[21:54:48] <syyl_> i bored the jaws
[21:54:48] <zeeshan|2> theyre too short
[21:54:55] <ssi> I should start looking for a 3 jaw hardinge nose chuck again
[21:55:02] <syyl_> they have a dead sharp corner on front
[21:55:08] <zeeshan|2> ssi so hcnc is powered
[21:55:09] <syyl_> with no chamfer
[21:55:11] <zeeshan|2> and working?
[21:55:21] <ssi> zeeshan|2: yeah I have to clean it up and test it
[21:55:25] <zeeshan|2> nice
[21:55:31] <ssi> but I was able to home the machine and run the toolchanger
[21:55:33] <ssi> which is a good sign
[21:55:38] <ssi> the toolchanger was what was broken
[21:55:39] <syyl_> i want a hardinge too :/
[21:55:46] <zeeshan|2> ah
[21:55:53] <zeeshan|2> so i went to that surplus store
[21:55:57] <ssi> syyl_: I love mine... I'm so excited to have it running again :D
[21:56:01] <zeeshan|2> wtf 1000 6" zip ties
[21:56:05] <zeeshan|2> for $12
[21:56:09] <zeeshan|2> i jumped all over that shit
[21:56:10] <syyl_> :)
[21:56:18] <zeeshan|2> i've been paying like 8 bux for 100
[21:56:18] <syyl_> but i would more go for the plain hlv
[21:56:22] <syyl_> manual machine
[21:56:28] <syyl_> its kinda sexy ;)
[21:56:39] <ssi> yep
[21:57:18] <syyl_> or a monarch
[21:57:20] <syyl_> *droll*
[21:57:35] <ssi> yeah I'd loooove to have a 10EE
[21:57:59] <syyl_> i think of it as the american schaublin?
[21:58:10] <syyl_> strictly a toolroomlathe?
[21:58:19] <ssi> yea
[21:58:35] <ssi> I always wanted a hardinge second op lathe too
[21:58:56] <syyl_> small lathe with no tailstock, lever operated?
[21:59:20] <ssi> more like ONLY a tailstock
[21:59:24] <ssi> lever operated turret tailstock
[21:59:29] <syyl_> ah
[21:59:42] <ssi> great for things like floating die holders and rotary broaching tools
[21:59:47] <syyl_> oh
[22:00:09] <syyl_> is it the thing that indexes the tools automaticaly to the next after each slide move?
[22:00:44] <ssi> yea I think some of them do
[22:00:57] <ssi> was looking for youtube vid and this mislabeled vid is of the cleanest damn HNC ever
[22:01:00] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeBJDoLBeS4
[22:01:01] <syyl_> would be cool for small batchs
[22:01:27] <syyl_> :o
[22:01:28] <ssi> here you go
[22:01:29] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB1yhYJj_yI
[22:01:38] <syyl_> thats lovely
[22:01:38] <mozmck> I've seen some of the hardinge second op lathes on craigslist in dallas pretty cheap recently.
[22:01:49] <ssi> they're cool machines
[22:01:59] <ssi> I love the hardinge dovetail beds
[22:02:13] <syyl_> arent they horror when they wear?
[22:02:27] <syyl_> yeah
[22:02:33] <syyl_> love the indexing tailstock turret
[22:02:35] <ssi> yep
[22:03:09] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKizLfzz7GM
[22:03:10] <ssi> needs
[22:04:13] <ssi> I have a weird obsession with lathes for some reason :P
[22:04:22] <syyl_> funny enough
[22:04:35] <syyl_> i work as a machinist running a cnc mill
[22:04:39] <syyl_> but love working on a lathe :D
[22:04:42] <ssi> heheh
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[22:09:04] <ssi> so jealous of the live tooling and back spindle
[22:13:07] <jdh> buy one to go with your VMC
[22:13:16] <ssi> thought about it actually
[22:13:25] <ssi> that hitachi seiki that pete was looking at
[22:13:40] <ssi> but realistically just getting the vmc is financially tight
[22:13:46] <ssi> and now that the hnc is working again :D
[22:13:50] <jdh> how much?
[22:14:30] <jdh> do you have 3phase already? or enough convertor for a vmc?
[22:17:13] <ssi> no and no
[22:17:30] <ssi> I can't decide if I'm gonna try to buy/build a rotary converter and run it with the original control for awhile, or just immediately convert it
[22:17:39] <ssi> converted, the only thing that's 3ph is the spindle and the coolant pump, and both will get vfds
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[22:25:01] <zeeshan|2> hi
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[23:11:06] <asah> ssi: have you driven a pump with a VFD before with success?
[23:11:15] <ssi> what sort of pump?
[23:11:20] <asah> I am blocked on my hydraulics pump which I setup with a vfd
[23:11:21] <ssi> my coolant pump is driven by a vfd
[23:11:26] <asah> it wont start
[23:11:39] <ssi> just insufficient starting power?
[23:11:41] <asah> been fiddling with modes to try and get more starting torque
[23:11:53] <ssi> what is your accel rate like?
[23:12:09] <ssi> vfds typically will try to profile accell and decel,
[23:12:10] <asah> yeah. I haven’t tried it on the other bigger vfd I have.
[23:12:16] <ssi> and the accel may be too slow to start the pump
[23:12:24] <ssi> or too fast even!
[23:12:27] <asah> I setup accell to .1 sec
[23:12:28] <ssi> I have no idea :)
[23:12:35] <zeeshan|2> sounds way too fast
[23:12:42] <asah> and fiddled it up as high as 5
[23:12:47] <ssi> can you relieve hydraulic pressure during start?
[23:13:09] <asah> not really… there is a relief at 140 psi
[23:13:13] <asah> overflow… etc.
[23:13:45] <asah> supposedly startup current is like 5.7 amps.
[23:13:48] <ssi> http://makerflux.com/tiny-robotic-pilot-is-learning-how-to-fly/?utm_content=buffer6bd69&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
[23:14:18] <asah> I have it hooked up to a vfd that is rated max at 4.
[23:14:29] <asah> but… still blocked, can’t start
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[23:16:03] <asah> cool.
[23:16:08] <ssi> you're above my paygrade, sorry :/
[23:16:40] <asah> ha… ok.
[23:16:52] <asah> ill try and plug it into the bigger one and see if that goes.
[23:17:18] <asah> the manual talks about increased torque modes… but its all pretty obscure in the manual.
[23:18:05] <zeeshan|2> asah
[23:18:10] <zeeshan|2> do you know the pump torque?
[23:18:30] <zeeshan|2> and is this a scalar vfd or vector
[23:18:33] <asah> I have the whole datasheet.
[23:18:45] <asah> scalar vfd I believe. there is no feedback.
[23:18:54] <zeeshan|2> could be vector sensorless
[23:18:58] <asah> is a cheap HY VFD from china.
[23:19:00] <zeeshan|2> oh
[23:19:02] <zeeshan|2> prolly not then
[23:19:04] <asah> I don’t think it is
[23:19:06] <asah> yeah.
[23:19:19] <zeeshan|2> does it spin when you disconnect it from the pump
[23:19:25] <zeeshan|2> the motor that is
[23:19:25] <asah> the pump is a HAWE FP2
[23:19:32] <asah> its integrated.
[23:19:37] <asah> I dont’ want to pull it apart.
[23:19:43] <asah> the motor sits in the hydraulic fluid.
[23:19:50] <asah> for cooling.
[23:19:59] <zeeshan|2> thats interesting
[23:20:00] <asah> it runs at 380.
[23:20:03] <asah> vac
[23:20:11] <zeeshan|2> when you try to start
[23:20:15] <asah> and only runs for a few seconds typically.
[23:20:16] <zeeshan|2> you see the current amps increase on the vfd display?
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[23:20:34] <asah> I hear it try and turn for a bit.
[23:20:45] <asah> it sort of sputters out, so I know its trying to go.
[23:20:47] <zeeshan|2> the first thing i would do if you havent already
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[23:20:57] <zeeshan|2> is check the name plate amps
[23:21:03] <asah> nameplate is 2
[23:21:08] <asah> starting is 5.7
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[23:21:20] <zeeshan|2> and whats displayed on the VFD?
[23:21:30] <zeeshan|2> for current
[23:21:33] <asah> I have the full manual for the hydro power pack.
[23:21:49] <zeeshan|2> when its trying to start
[23:21:51] <asah> I haven’t looked at the current during a run
[23:21:55] <zeeshan|2> try that
[23:21:56] <asah> its a good point.
[23:22:01] <zeeshan|2> see if its even hitting 5.7A
[23:22:16] <asah> well, supposedly the current is limited to 4.
[23:22:27] <zeeshan|2> well that could be your problem
[23:22:34] <zeeshan|2> vfd might go in limp mode
[23:22:35] <asah> Ill hook it up to the big VFD and try there to make sure.
[23:22:38] <zeeshan|2> thinking its overcurrenting
[23:22:51] <asah> =) I figure thats whats going on. I was hoping there was a “softer start” option
[23:23:05] <zeeshan|2> well like ssi said
[23:23:08] <asah> as I think 5.7 is the starting torque when you slam on mains power through a contactor.
[23:23:10] <zeeshan|2> really its only acceleration you can play with
[23:23:16] <zeeshan|2> you can try a really long acceleration value
[23:23:58] <zeeshan|2> theres also options
[23:23:59] <asah> but I can only do that if the motor is actually able to turn. I think its stalling.
[23:24:04] <zeeshan|2> where you can offset your V / hz chart
[23:24:10] <zeeshan|2> i totally forgot how it works
[23:24:16] <asah> I played with that some.
[23:24:20] <asah> v/hz stuff.
[23:24:41] <asah> I really just need to bite the bullet and hook it u pto the big VFD and see if I can get it working there.
[23:24:46] <zeeshan|2> you can try pumping more voltage
[23:24:51] <zeeshan|2> which will cause less current draw
[23:25:01] <asah> been dragging my feet cause, the spindle is spinning nice and pretty, I don’t want to steal its vfd!
[23:25:02] <asah> =)
[23:25:06] <zeeshan|2> well if you have a big vfd
[23:25:07] <zeeshan|2> i'd try that
[23:26:14] <asah> yeah, I will.
[23:26:15] <asah> =)
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[23:34:02] <zeeshan|2> looks like i finally need more than 4gb of ram on my cad machine
[23:34:02] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:34:14] <zeeshan|2> im video processing
[23:34:18] <zeeshan|2> shits dieing on me
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[23:49:30] <Tom_itx> evening andy
[23:49:37] <andypugh> Hai