#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-09-24

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[00:01:50] <roycroft> that went nicely
[00:02:11] <roycroft> about 10 seconds with some 1000 grit on each shaft and i got a snug slip fit
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[00:46:32] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/460400892/affordable-3d-metal-printer-aurora-labs
[00:53:05] <Flipp_> huh. I'm preeeeeeeeeetty sure that's covered by about a thousand patents by now (see additive/subtractive milling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA )
[00:54:34] <roycroft> if it's covered by about a 1000 patents then they need to up their kickstarter goal to like $10 million to cover the lawsuits
[00:54:49] <roycroft> well
[00:54:53] <roycroft> to cover the first round of lawsuits
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[01:40:13] <FinboySlick> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BniwQ-vZUp8 <--- big.
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[02:15:10] <Valen> is it laser or electon beam welding?
[02:15:17] <Valen> I'm guessing laser
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[04:29:02] <PetefromTn_andro> Evening folks
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[04:37:54] <Connor> PetefromTn_andro: What's up?
[04:38:22] <PetefromTn_andro> Hey man how's it going
[04:38:40] <Connor> going okay. Got my mesa stuff in today..
[04:38:48] <PetefromTn_andro> Nice...
[04:38:58] <Connor> Looking to see how I'm going to mount the 7i76 in the case..
[04:39:23] <PetefromTn_andro> Ssi says hi LOL
[04:39:50] <Connor> I may need to move the Stepper PSU to the other side of the case to make room for a DIN rail.. Might need to re-do one of those front plates..
[04:39:55] <Connor> He with you ?
[04:40:20] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah
[04:40:33] <Connor> Umm okay..
[04:40:43] <Connor> how does that VMC look ?
[04:40:52] <PetefromTn_andro> Haven't seen it yet
[04:41:10] <Connor> I though you were going to see it today?
[04:41:16] <PetefromTn_andro> Going out tomorrow morning
[04:41:32] <Connor> I'm so confused..
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[04:42:31] <PetefromTn_andro> What's the problem we are supposed to see it in the morning when the guy gets there
[04:42:52] <Connor> No problem...
[04:43:03] <ktchk> Hi PCW
[04:44:17] <ktchk> mesa
[04:49:27] <ktchk> Bye
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[05:14:58] <MacGalempsy> Evening
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[05:31:34] <PetefromTn_andro> Evening mac
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[06:47:58] <MacGalempsy_> back?
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[06:55:56] <Deejay> moinsen
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[07:04:35] <MacGalempsy> morning deejay
[07:04:47] <Deejay> hi MacGalempsy
[07:05:01] <MacGalempsy> any break through on the electrical job?
[07:21:21] <Jymmm> An interesting water wheel pump... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN9iLNHGOYI
[07:21:36] <zeeshan|2> i bet its making 1
[07:21:38] <zeeshan|2> 1MW!
[07:21:58] <Jymmm> zero electricity
[07:22:06] <zeeshan|2> i just got to the other part
[07:22:07] <zeeshan|2> thats cool
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[07:24:58] <Loetmichel> can anyone give his opinion about that waterbed support change (left old, right new) will the new one hold the metric ton of water? (thre green rectangles are 19mm particle board now and will be changed to 18mm plywoood because two corners broke off, and in course of that action i thougt to integrate some drawers in the support) http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15306&g2_image
[07:24:58] <Loetmichel> ViewsIndex=1
[07:27:38] <Jymmm> Internal spiral? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seNswRYkZdE
[07:28:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15306&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- uncut url
[07:30:34] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: What are you using for materials?
[07:30:54] <Loetmichel> for the support?
[07:30:59] <Loetmichel> 18mm plywood
[07:31:03] <Jymmm> supoorts and top
[07:31:09] <Loetmichel> both
[07:31:20] <Jymmm> bah what is 18mm
[07:31:27] <Jymmm> 3/4" ?
[07:31:34] <Jymmm> 5/8" ?
[07:32:05] <Loetmichel> about 3/4"
[07:32:08] <Jymmm> .708"
[07:32:35] <Deejay> lol
[07:32:44] <Jymmm> on the left/right sides in the middle where you are going to put the drawers,
[07:32:50] <Jymmm> there is no supports
[07:33:42] <Jymmm> you have about 2x4 feet on each side that might bow
[07:33:59] <Loetmichel> thats the bed now:
[07:34:04] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: what is at the top?
[07:34:05] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11627
[07:34:09] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11624
[07:34:31] <Jymmm> OH a floatation mattress
[07:34:35] <Loetmichel> a ton of water and some plastic
[07:34:37] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[07:34:44] <Jymmm> well shit that's diffent man =)
[07:34:44] <Loetmichel> literally a metric ton
[07:34:51] <Jymmm> yeah yeah whatever
[07:34:59] <Jymmm> I have one =)
[07:35:17] <Jymmm> and the entire middle seciton is ALL storge
[07:35:52] <Jymmm> I have a door at the foot of the bed to hide the bodies
[07:36:11] <Jymmm> Mine is a California King, so the biggest they have
[07:36:49] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Shit yay, you can ,ake the drawers wider too
[07:37:26] <Jymmm> no need for the center X if you reenforce the inner sides of the drawers
[07:37:34] <Jymmm> x's
[07:37:52] <Loetmichel> thanks
[07:38:02] <Jymmm> I have BIG ASS drawers, super deep on mine
[07:38:14] <Loetmichel> than i will make a parts list and go to the wood store and get them cut ;-)
[07:38:45] <Loetmichel> super deep would not be good, the walk outside the bed is only 2-3 feet wide ;-)
[07:39:04] <Jymmm> super deep as in height
[07:39:12] <Loetmichel> ah
[07:39:14] <Jymmm> almsot 14"
[07:39:25] <Loetmichel> yeah, the support is now 45cm high
[07:39:30] <Jymmm> well, maybe not THAT much, but around 12"
[07:39:46] <Loetmichel> 17"
[07:39:56] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I gave up mine when it sprung a leak =)
[07:40:09] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: thats the secons set of matresses.
[07:40:15] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Kept the frame and used a memory foam mattress instead
[07:40:23] <Loetmichel> after the eight leak i bought new matresses lately ;-)
[07:41:09] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Yeah, well the bladders dividers broke internally, so just one big dip, no thanks
[07:41:31] <Jymmm> too much headache for me, but was fun while it lasted.
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[07:41:47] <Loetmichel> its great for my occasionally back ace
[07:41:49] <Loetmichel> +h
[07:41:58] <Jymmm> I know what you mean
[07:43:38] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Mine is built as two sections (left and right), then the board across the foot and head that connect the "boxes" together
[07:44:04] <Jymmm> then topped with three planks
[07:45:20] <Jymmm> then between the two boxes there are support pieces at the top
[07:45:29] <Loetmichel> nice idea
[07:45:36] <Jymmm> cors smembers actually
[07:45:39] <Jymmm> cross
[07:45:58] <Jymmm> the center is much narrower than the width of the boxes
[07:46:12] <Jymmm> not eaual liek you show it
[07:46:18] <Jymmm> equal
[07:46:44] <Jymmm> Even if the drawers themselves don't go that deep, the boxes go slightly deeper
[07:47:47] <Jymmm> oh I just notced your green outline
[07:48:07] <Loetmichel> the green outline are the three particle boards now
[07:48:12] <Jymmm> The only overhang I have on all side is maybe 1.5"
[07:48:14] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11627
[07:48:16] <Loetmichel> these
[07:48:32] <Loetmichel> that will be changed to plywood of same thickness
[07:48:47] <Jymmm> Actually I dont think even 1.5" , mabe 1"
[07:49:05] <Jymmm> whoa, thats WAY TOO MUCH overhang
[07:49:35] <Loetmichel> its about 5" overhang
[07:49:42] <Loetmichel> and i bought that bed this way
[07:49:46] <Jymmm> no more than an inch
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[07:50:13] <Loetmichel> and the particle board is the reason two corners are broken off now
[07:50:28] <Jymmm> Mine is partical board too
[07:50:43] <Jymmm> no cracks at al
[07:50:46] <Jymmm> all
[07:50:54] <Loetmichel> i will change that to plywood now
[07:51:17] <Jymmm> harder to get in the drawers with that huch overhang too
[07:51:21] <Loetmichel> thats the reason for the whole "new support structure"
[07:51:44] <Loetmichel> because when i dismantle the bed anyways i can easily put some drawers in there
[07:51:54] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Go for less overhang
[07:52:17] <Jymmm> make them like two square coffins
[07:52:25] <Loetmichel> have to pump out 900 liters of water...
[07:53:10] <Jymmm> My headboard is 10ft wide =)
[07:54:17] <Loetmichel> mine only 6'4"
[07:54:56] <Jymmm> Well, it has pendastal stands for extra storage/night stand sorta thing.
[07:55:07] <Jymmm> lighting, etc
[07:55:36] <Loetmichel> as you can see there are seperate nightstands
[07:55:44] <Jymmm> =)
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[08:46:41] <Loetmichel> *cough* just calculated the wood price for the bed support... 870 eur... i think i will reconsider the drawers and just buy a new set of decking, thats only 200 eur... ;-)
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[08:47:40] <Jymmm> Nah, shuldbe be that much
[08:48:02] <Jymmm> Mine has 1x2's
[08:48:17] <Jymmm> unless lumber is REALLY expensive there
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[08:48:39] * Tom_itx wonders if Jymmm uses a step ladder to climb into bed
[08:48:52] <Loetmichel> i will use "multilex" (15 ply plywood), 18mm thick
[08:49:07] <Loetmichel> thats about 45 eur a square meter
[08:49:12] <Tom_itx> that's overkill
[08:49:12] <Loetmichel> so the price is ok
[08:49:17] <Loetmichel> but to much for a bed
[08:49:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: No, I'm tall
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[08:55:40] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: asmy wife managed to break off two edges of the old particle board support: i dont think so
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[09:09:23] <SpeedEvil> 870 euro. Does that include the price of making a CNC to cut it? :)
[09:10:03] <SpeedEvil> 45 euro a square meter is hellishly expensive plywood
[09:10:27] <SpeedEvil> Ridiculously so, even.
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[09:32:04] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: thats "multiplex" a.k.a 15 ply beechwood plywood
[09:32:26] <Loetmichel> thats not the typical american wall panel "cardboard"
[09:32:40] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[09:32:58] <Loetmichel> and its "ready cut" not whole panels
[09:33:08] <SpeedEvil> I see, that'll massively boost the cost.
[09:33:12] <Loetmichel> i wont cut them myself, i will let the supplier do taht
[09:33:39] <SpeedEvil> Gwaaan. You know you want a full-sheet capable router :)
[09:33:49] <Loetmichel> because he will do it more precise and i dont have to tangle with the panel size
[09:34:05] <Loetmichel> i just pay the boards i get, nothing more
[09:34:29] <Loetmichel> i do want that, but here is no room for it anyway
[09:35:44] <Loetmichel> you've seen the pic of the partice board now?
[09:35:53] <Loetmichel> that broke away on two corners?
[09:36:05] <Loetmichel> i wont let that happen again
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[10:20:42] <MattyMatt> if you get it on the router you can do a proper cuckoo clock job on it
[10:21:59] <MattyMatt> in a cheaper high contrast ply, it'll still be stronger than chipboard
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[13:08:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I know you were thinking of working on your tractor alternator thing, maybe this will help, maybe not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acbCnxI3EZc
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[13:20:16] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, I resolved my question about my crawler alternator long ago
[13:20:27] <Jymmm> k
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[13:58:14] <Jymmm> If a DC motor is rated at 100W, would I get about 100W when used as a generator?
[13:59:20] <roycroft> if it were 100% efficient, yes
[13:59:28] <Jymmm> realistically
[13:59:54] <Jymmm> Would it be 10% or more like 40-60% ?
[14:00:14] <roycroft> realistically, you'll get 60-70 watts from a decent motor
[14:00:22] <Jymmm> and would RPM make a signigicant impact?
[14:00:37] <Jymmm> ok so about 25%,
[14:00:58] <roycroft> i don't know how rpm would affect it
[14:01:09] <Jymmm> I guess I'll find out =)
[14:01:48] <Jymmm> What TYPE of dc motor would be most effiecant for this?
[14:02:23] <Jymmm> I'd like to generate 200W and be smallish if possible
[14:02:50] <Jymmm> No more than 2" diameter and 4-6" long or so
[14:03:34] <Jymmm> thin profile is better, length can be longer if need be
[14:04:02] <Jymmm> I'm kinda thinking windshield wiper motor
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[14:05:05] <roycroft> a windshield wiper motor would be low rpm
[14:05:20] <roycroft> i would not spin it up to 1000rpm
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[14:08:33] <Loetmichel> *ha, chinaman has delivered, finally... *soldering*... first one works -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15309
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[14:16:50] <jdh> that's a lotta parts for an LED ddriver.
[14:17:16] <Loetmichel> jdh: its a component tester
[14:17:27] <jdh> Ja!
[14:17:43] <Loetmichel> can do diodes, transistors, caps, inductors, resisotrs
[14:17:55] <Loetmichel> and can measure ESR in caps
[14:17:59] <jdh> nifty. just test or measure?
[14:18:04] <Loetmichel> measure
[14:18:13] <jdh> URL?
[14:18:18] <Loetmichel> like you see in the display
[14:18:28] <jdh> I can't read the display
[14:18:34] <Loetmichel> http://www.ebay.de/itm/301217764100?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[14:18:56] <Loetmichel> oh, thats a bit dark on the photo
[14:19:31] <Loetmichel> it says: diode: 2-->|--1 Uf=1.91V C= 2pf
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[14:28:44] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: WTH, too expensive. Apply 220VAC to component, see smoke, part defective =)
[14:29:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: "Never fails" =)
[14:29:24] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[14:29:34] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: "100% reliable compontent testing"
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[14:57:24] <gonzo_> 100% destructive testing
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[15:25:35] <zeeshan|2> mill is sold
[15:25:36] <zeeshan|2> :D
[15:25:48] <zeeshan|2> its funny how there was no calls for it
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[15:25:53] <zeeshan|2> and all the sudden 3 people are calling
[15:26:01] <zeeshan|2> after it's sold
[15:26:12] <zeeshan|2> now i'm a mill less person :(
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[15:29:22] <pcw_home> no more milling around
[15:29:40] <zeeshan|2> hahah
[15:29:49] <zeeshan|2> hopefully a cnc mill will be making home
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[15:38:33] <ktchk> Hi pcw_home are you mesa owner?
[15:40:21] <pcw_home> partner
[15:40:26] <ktchk> Ok
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[15:40:57] <ktchk> I was told to ask you about 5i25 for stepper motor
[15:42:39] <roycroft> ooh, oregon gears show is this weekend
[15:42:50] <roycroft> i might have to make a trip up to pdx
[15:43:01] <ktchk> pcw_home: Shell we go private?
[15:43:09] <archivist> real gears?
[15:43:33] <roycroft> it's a mostly hobbiest machining show
[15:43:44] <archivist> ah
[15:43:48] <roycroft> i.e steam engine/scale model railroad folks
[15:43:53] <roycroft> but there's a big swap meet
[15:43:59] <pcw_home> Either way (if its general info and useful to other public is better)
[15:44:16] <Connor> jdh: You get my other comments last night ?
[15:44:30] <archivist> we have the midland model engineer show not too far away soon
[15:44:44] <roycroft> i haven't been to this show in a couple years
[15:45:04] <roycroft> i've found good stuff there before
[15:45:29] <roycroft> i was going to brew beer on saturday, but i didn't get my yeast starter made last night, so sunday will be brew day
[15:45:36] <roycroft> now saturday i can go to the show
[15:46:55] <Loetmichel> i opened a bottle of hombrew yesterday that has been sitting about 2 years in my fridge...
[15:47:13] <Loetmichel> ... BAD idea. had to clean up half the kitchen ;-)
[15:47:38] <roycroft> then it was bad homebrew in the first place
[15:47:39] <Loetmichel> my brother in law is into hombrewing
[15:47:59] <roycroft> the worst that should happen is it would be a little oxidised and the flavor would have faded
[15:48:16] <roycroft> if it was volcanic it probably got infected
[15:48:26] <jdh> I don't recall
[15:48:28] <Loetmichel> probably
[15:48:40] <Loetmichel> it smelled a bit "moldy"
[15:49:42] <Loetmichel> it was "bottle ripened", the yeast was still at the bottom of the bottle, if that makess a difference
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[15:51:34] <zeeshan|2> guys i need your help
[15:51:40] <zeeshan|2> in deciding on which machine to go with.
[15:51:49] <zeeshan|2> i have two choices
[15:52:03] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/city-of-toronto/cnc-vertical-mill/1006434248?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[15:52:06] <zeeshan|2> that one for $3500
[15:52:26] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-business-industrial/ottawa/cnc-mill/1017830477?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[15:52:29] <zeeshan|2> for $200
[15:52:32] <zeeshan|2> er $2000
[15:52:41] <zeeshan|2> the major difference is the travels and the weights of the machines
[15:52:57] <zeeshan|2> the$3500 is 20" Y travel by X 40"
[15:53:00] <zeeshan|2> Z is 25"
[15:53:08] <zeeshan|2> the $2000 is 15x15x15
[15:53:17] <zeeshan|2> $3500 weighs 5600 lb
[15:53:27] <zeeshan|2> the $2000 weighs 6200
[15:53:41] <zeeshan|2> so clearly the 2000 is a lot more rigid for its work capacity
[15:54:11] <Connor> I like the design of the MICRON WF21C better
[15:54:25] <zeeshan|2> why
[15:54:43] <archivist> solid meaty, and well made
[15:54:49] <Connor> The Z axis.
[15:55:02] <Connor> the other looks like a converted manual mill..
[15:55:04] <zeeshan|2> the problem is, how in the world do i work on 20" parts in it in the X
[15:55:18] <zeeshan|2> Connor: it is
[15:55:20] <zeeshan|2> but it is a beast
[15:55:27] <zeeshan|2> its literally twice the size of my manual mill
[15:55:31] <Connor> The other.. looks like a true VMC
[15:55:39] <archivist> moving mid job is a pain
[15:56:08] <zeeshan|2> archivist: approach the problem as a hobbyist
[15:56:11] <zeeshan|2> remember this not for production
[15:56:17] <archivist> but, add a rotary off centre, then you can cheat
[15:56:20] <zeeshan|2> so this means, if im making a flange for example
[15:56:27] <zeeshan|2> i will design the flange in a way so it has flats on it
[15:56:34] <zeeshan|2> so that i can "rezero" after shifting it
[15:56:44] <zeeshan|2> and continue machining
[15:56:49] <archivist> I use the rotary to get over sized done
[15:57:13] <zeeshan|2> one other problem with the mikron is it's got a small table
[15:57:15] <Connor> zeeshan|2: That's what custom fixture plates are for. :)
[15:57:30] <zeeshan|2> so i can't put a 4th axis on it
[15:57:42] <zeeshan|2> while on the proman, its got a huge table
[15:57:54] <zeeshan|2> i guess i could put a 4th axis
[15:57:55] <Connor> Sounds like you've already made up your mind.
[15:57:58] <zeeshan|2> if i make an adapter
[15:57:59] <zeeshan|2> no connor
[15:58:02] <zeeshan|2> i want the best machine
[15:58:10] <zeeshan|2> and i appreciate your feedback
[15:58:26] <zeeshan|2> see i wasn't thinking that i could make an adapter
[15:58:27] <archivist> hanging off the side http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_06_15_Adcock_Shipley/IMG_1249.JPG
[15:58:47] <Connor> The BEST machine is the machine for the Job. :) Not knowing what your going to be using it for.. it's hard to say.
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[15:59:25] <CaptHindsight> is there a wiki where it lists the pro's and cons of each mill and where we can vote?
[15:59:33] <Connor> You sure that other is only 15 x 15 x 15 ?
[15:59:36] <zeeshan|2> http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9076/picture389f.jpg
[15:59:41] <zeeshan|2> notice the intake flange?
[15:59:45] <zeeshan|2> with the compound angle and a hole in it
[15:59:52] <zeeshan|2> thats one type of part i'll be making
[16:00:14] <zeeshan|2> http://www.hioctanedirect.com/images/cosworth%20nissan%20vq%20fuel%20rail.jpg
[16:00:18] <zeeshan|2> fuel rails on the side is another
[16:00:29] <zeeshan|2> these parts are usually around 15-18" long
[16:00:31] <zeeshan|2> depending on the car
[16:00:41] <zeeshan|2> if its an inline 6
[16:00:45] <zeeshan|2> it might even be 25" long
[16:01:09] <zeeshan|2> http://www.mullermachines.com/en/MachineTool/Details/17162/MIKRON-WF-21-C
[16:01:13] <zeeshan|2> according to this website
[16:01:27] <zeeshan|2> its 400mmx400mmx400mm 15.7"
[16:01:57] <zeeshan|2> i cant find anymore info on it
[16:02:07] <archivist> another setup I saw http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Statfold/p1010169.jpg
[16:02:10] <zeeshan|2> the other machine theres 0 info on it on the web according to CaptHindsight :D
[16:02:24] <zeeshan|2> archivist: so basically its doable
[16:02:28] <zeeshan|2> just have to be creative :P
[16:02:39] <zeeshan|2> man that second part is huge.
[16:03:30] <Connor> I like the red/white tape :)
[16:03:41] <CaptHindsight> do you feel like modifying the larger machine to give it a longer X axis?
[16:03:53] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: how??
[16:03:55] <archivist> left it on the crane ahile mid job
[16:04:11] <zeeshan|2> does iso40 spindles
[16:04:13] <zeeshan|2> have the dog teeth?
[16:04:16] <zeeshan|2> drive teeth
[16:04:23] <zeeshan|2> the mikron has iso40
[16:04:30] <zeeshan|2> the proman has nmtb40
[16:05:39] <archivist> or wait for another local lump to turn up
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[16:07:24] <zeeshan|2> archivist: it doesnt happen
[16:07:30] <zeeshan|2> why are you guys so against the proman!!
[16:08:32] <zeeshan|2> the mikron guy said
[16:08:35] <zeeshan|2> its german btw :P
[16:08:40] <zeeshan|2> is it german or swiss!
[16:08:50] <jdh> swiss I think
[16:08:57] <archivist> european
[16:09:09] <archivist> I think swiss too
[16:09:22] <zeeshan|2> youre right.
[16:09:25] <zeeshan|2> http://www.mikron.com/en/contact/machining-systems/
[16:09:28] <zeeshan|2> click production sites
[16:09:33] <archivist> but at one stage they could have had a german plant
[16:09:36] <zeeshan|2> swiss
[16:09:51] <zeeshan|2> and also german
[16:10:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATSUURA-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-/301324118810 every other month or so one of these pops up in working condition for a few $K
[16:10:52] <zeeshan|2> the problem with a lot of the machines
[16:10:53] <zeeshan|2> are theyre huge
[16:10:58] <zeeshan|2> the mikron is so nice and compact
[16:11:06] <archivist> and heavy
[16:11:29] <zeeshan|2> yes :P
[16:11:38] <zeeshan|2> btw i got its weight wrong
[16:11:39] <zeeshan|2> its 2200kg
[16:11:49] <zeeshan|2> 4850lb
[16:11:53] <zeeshan|2> the other one is 6000
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[16:12:36] <zeeshan|2> the mikron wf51c is huge
[16:12:36] <zeeshan|2> :D
[16:12:52] <archivist> I wanted to bring a mikron hobbing machine home...snifff
[16:13:03] <zeeshan|2> what happened
[16:13:19] <zeeshan|2> http://wild-maschinen.de/img/mach/ex/4ffe11d3d33fd850c6999e179eee677b.jpg
[16:13:22] <zeeshan|2> heres a picture of it in action
[16:13:49] <archivist> boss claimed he didnt own it to give me
[16:13:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsuura-MC-510VF-Vertical-Machining-Center-1995-/221489694149 would be the size of a VMC with your range of travel
[16:13:52] <zeeshan|2> http://wild-maschinen.de/img/mach/ex/d39a2989205b6a60cb49ac3eab09bf2d.jpg
[16:13:56] <zeeshan|2> looks a lot smaller than the proman
[16:13:59] <zeeshan|2> in terms of size
[16:14:13] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: damn thats a lot of money
[16:14:15] <zeeshan|2> but what a sexy machine
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[16:14:29] <zeeshan|2> i wanna spend $4k max on a mill
[16:14:34] <zeeshan|2> to get it running.
[16:14:35] <CaptHindsight> those pop up for a few $K on ebay
[16:14:45] <zeeshan|2> with shipping/running condition
[16:14:55] <zeeshan|2> the proman is in running condition :P
[16:15:06] <zeeshan|2> i'll just need to swap in mesa cards
[16:15:11] <zeeshan|2> and then i can run mr linuxcnc
[16:15:17] <CaptHindsight> yes, somebody here found one for $1500
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[16:15:30] <CaptHindsight> last summer
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[16:17:46] <zeeshan|2> the more i look at pics if the mikron
[16:17:48] <zeeshan|2> the more i want it
[16:18:03] <CaptHindsight> they are 8K lbs so they tend to at least sell for scrap prices
[16:18:18] <zeeshan|2> lol CaptHindsight i ts a crime to scrap a cnc mill
[16:18:58] <zeeshan|2> fuck it
[16:19:03] <zeeshan|2> im goiing to get the mikron
[16:19:12] <zeeshan|2> i'll just reindex parts
[16:19:18] <zeeshan|2> no big deal.
[16:19:18] <CaptHindsight> a rotary table and a laser will get you your 20"
[16:19:28] <zeeshan|2> explaino?
[16:19:35] <zeeshan|2> how does a rotary table get me to 20"
[16:19:46] <CaptHindsight> like archivist mentioned, you
[16:20:03] <CaptHindsight> have to reindex the parts
[16:20:07] <zeeshan|2> okay
[16:20:14] <zeeshan|2> so the way i imagine it is:
[16:20:21] <zeeshan|2> you're at the right most side of your travel
[16:20:23] <zeeshan|2> (X).
[16:20:30] <zeeshan|2> at this point you rotate the rotary table 180 degrees?
[16:20:33] <zeeshan|2> and continue machining?
[16:20:43] <zeeshan|2> hm
[16:20:55] <CaptHindsight> I do it here on far more precise machines
[16:21:05] <zeeshan|2> i dont get the procedure. i cant visualize it
[16:21:21] <CaptHindsight> I measure with a laser
[16:21:45] <zeeshan|2> i dont see how a 16" X travel becomes 20" with a rotary table
[16:21:59] <zeeshan|2> i do see how a 16"X travel becomes 38"
[16:22:02] <zeeshan|2> by reindexing the part
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[16:22:27] <zeeshan|2> er 32.
[16:22:30] <zeeshan|2> too early for me :P
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[16:31:07] <zeeshan|2> so the mikron will cost me
[16:31:19] <zeeshan|2> $246
[16:31:21] <zeeshan|2> er
[16:31:34] <zeeshan|2> $650
[16:31:41] <zeeshan|2> with gas and truck rental and kilometers!
[16:31:42] <zeeshan|2> damn
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[16:54:51] <Connor> So, Column spacer for G0704.. Which material? Aluminum, Steel, or Cast Iron? 2" Thick.. goes between the base and the Column. Bolts go through the back of the column, through the spacer into the base.
[16:58:34] <Connor> Anyone ?
[17:01:02] <roycroft> you're wanting to raise the column 2"?
[17:01:28] <Connor> No. the column isn't ON the base.. it's mounted to the BACK of the base.. adding more travel
[17:01:41] <roycroft> oh
[17:01:45] <rythmnbls> cast generally has better vibration dmaping
[17:01:55] <roycroft> yes, but steel is more commonly available
[17:02:00] <rythmnbls> s/dmaping/damping/
[17:02:12] <roycroft> i'd use cast iron if i could get it, otherwise steel
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[17:05:03] <Connor> I can get 2 1/4" x 5 1/4" by length (3") for $21.27 in grey cast iron from speedy metals.
[17:06:09] <Connor> Issue is, I don't want to machine it... my machine isn't accurate enough.. I need the mating faces to be dead nuts on, or it'll affect the tram of the mill... and I hear cast iron is VERY messy.
[17:06:25] <Connor> I don't think Pete want's to mill it either on his machine..
[17:07:01] <archivist> you can get gauge plate in steel
[17:07:34] <Connor> I can get it in steel too... but.. I think cast would be better.
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[17:15:20] <zeeshan|2> i bought the mikron.
[17:15:51] <zeeshan|2> it'
[17:15:51] <archivist> you devil you
[17:15:55] <zeeshan|2> it's a damn interesting machine
[17:16:00] <zeeshan|2> the XZ move in the table.
[17:16:09] <zeeshan|2> but the whole head moves
[17:16:10] <zeeshan|2> to do Y
[17:16:20] <pcw_home> It looks really stiff
[17:16:23] <zeeshan|2> yea
[17:16:25] <zeeshan|2> its over-engineerd
[17:16:56] <zeeshan|2> i'll definitely be needing some mesa cards!
[17:17:43] <pcw_home> you will have to assess what condition the motors/ballscrews/drives are in
[17:17:56] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: the guy im buying it from is a mechanical engineer
[17:18:03] <zeeshan|2> he said this machine used t obe at his machine shop
[17:18:18] <zeeshan|2> before he sold the business and it was working in excellent condition, so if i go by his word
[17:18:25] <zeeshan|2> they're in excellent condition
[17:18:32] <zeeshan|2> they were using magnetic tape drives to feed in G-code lol
[17:18:55] <zeeshan|2> they were considering converting it to the god-forbid mach 3
[17:19:03] <zeeshan|2> but by that time, he sold his business
[17:19:26] <zeeshan|2> spindle motor is 240V 3 phase
[17:19:34] <zeeshan|2> so that'll as simple as hooking up a vfd to convert
[17:19:37] <pcw_home> What year?
[17:20:00] <zeeshan|2> 1986
[17:20:24] <pcw_home> So probably DC motors and maybe encoders, maybe resolvers
[17:20:54] <zeeshan|2> if its resolvers, cant i just install some encoders?
[17:21:34] <zeeshan|2> or can i leave the resolver on
[17:21:39] <zeeshan|2> and use some sort of ADC?
[17:22:08] <pcw_home> yes though depending on how difficult it is they might be worth keeping (assuming there are resolvers)
[17:22:52] <zeeshan|2> from my basic understanding.. resolvers output a sine wave which needs to be discretized
[17:23:00] <DaViruz> should be fairly straight forward to figure out what that heidenhein control uses no?
[17:23:04] <zeeshan|2> where is encoders output discrete
[17:23:34] <zeeshan|2> i hope so
[17:23:35] <DaViruz> i've worked on a heidenhein with that same control interface, and that one had linear absolute index encoders
[17:23:42] <zeeshan|2> i pick it up october 10th
[17:23:48] <zeeshan|2> thats the only time me and him are off work
[17:23:51] <zeeshan|2> and he has a forklift
[17:23:51] <DaViruz> that's my birthday
[17:23:55] <DaViruz> *hint hint*
[17:23:55] <zeeshan|2> haha nice
[17:23:57] <zeeshan|2> mine is oct 6!
[17:24:01] <zeeshan|2> libras
[17:24:03] <pcw_home> Ahh linear scales are a possibility
[17:24:22] <zeeshan|2> are linear scales a bad thing?
[17:24:32] <DaViruz> i like the heidenhain ones, it has index marks every 10mm or so, but each mark has a unique distance to the next
[17:24:43] <DaViruz> so you only need 10mm travel to get an absolute fix
[17:25:04] <pcw_home> they are a good thing but may require an interpolator (which may be there)
[17:25:09] <DaViruz> i believe there is some sort of emc2 support for it even
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[17:26:58] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: do you have a driver for RC servos? (analog or digital)
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[17:34:10] <pcw_home> you can use the pwmgen
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[17:35:52] <pcw_home> only issue is since RC servos are 1-2 ms at 50 Hz rate you dont have much resolution
[17:39:15] <CaptHindsight> I can PWM using any of the FPGA cards but I was looking for a RC servo driver board that isn't a toy like the *duino shields
[17:39:53] <zeeshan|2> man
[17:39:57] <zeeshan|2> im so excited about the mikron
[17:40:06] <zeeshan|2> thank you guys for helping make a clear decision
[17:40:14] <zeeshan|2> <3
[17:40:25] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RC_Servo_Test
[17:40:46] <CaptHindsight> I'm comparing the time and cost of using a stepper vs brushed or RC servo to rotate a shaft 90 deg
[17:41:21] <roycroft> i don't have any need for a hobber right now
[17:41:25] <roycroft> and i don't have room for one
[17:41:40] <roycroft> but it looks like a neat machine, and if i ran across one i'd probably get it and figure out where to put it
[17:41:50] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight, # 10000 gives 1 degree per period, or 1 degree resolution, but many PC's may
[17:41:51] <skunkworks> # crash with this setting. 20000 gives 2 degrees per fast period, or 2 degree resolution.
[17:42:46] <CaptHindsight> I'm not tied to a LPT port, in fact I think I'm out of LPT pins and PCI ports for more cards
[17:49:07] <CaptHindsight> RC servo has a gearbox that also is also the brake for ~$30 in the torque and speed range I need
[17:49:53] <Connor> pcw_home: Question: Using 5i25 + 7i76, is there a way to generate a PWM on a field I/O .. I already have a Analog 0-10v control for my spindle.. complete with relays etc.. it's going to be a bit of a pain to redo it..
[17:49:55] <CaptHindsight> brushed DC motor with ~6rpm gearbox is even less ~$10
[17:51:27] <CaptHindsight> then it needs a cam and limit switches to set the rotation limits
[17:52:41] <pcw_home> low frequency PWM yes
[17:53:12] <Connor> Hmm. What does the PWM component in HAL do on parport?
[17:54:47] <pcw_home> uses the base thread
[17:54:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/gear-ratio-1001-planetary-gearbox-nema-17-stepper-motor-17hs191684spg100-p-46.html $35
[17:55:02] <zeeshan|2> the guy picking up my mill tomorrow
[17:55:07] <zeeshan|2> wants to know how to adjust backlash on it
[17:55:13] <zeeshan|2> do you have to take off the table to adjust backlash?
[17:55:29] <jdh> just rewire and ditch your pwm board
[17:55:34] <zeeshan|2> internet tells me i have a split nut
[17:55:45] <jdh> webmd.com?
[17:56:10] <Jymmm> s/webmd.com/9-1-1/
[17:56:11] <pcw_home> Connor: another possibility is steal a stepgen output and use it for PWM
[17:56:35] <Connor> yea. Just trying to think ahead..
[17:57:01] <jdh> think ahead, ditch your existing pwm interface.
[17:57:35] <Connor> 3 Axis + Spindle NOW, Future.. will be adding a 4th axis rotary table.. with ambitions of upgrading that too a Full Spindle with Index capability.. and a stepper for tool changer..
[17:58:28] <Connor> have no idea how to use HAL to drive the tool changer stepper without it being a axis...
[17:59:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/ anyone ever order from them? ships from China
[18:04:04] <Jymmm> Can a steam engine or boiler "blow up" is heat source is maintained, but no steam is is used/cycled/released?
[18:04:12] <Jymmm> if*
[18:05:23] <roycroft> so this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-x-36-Gunsmithing-Lathe/G0750G is $150 more than this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-x-36-Gunsmith-s-Lathe-with-Stand/G4003G, the main difference being a totally enclosed gearbox
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[18:05:52] <roycroft> minor differences are that the cheaper one has a wider range of sae thread types it can cut (up to 128tpi vs. 56tpi for the first one)
[18:06:08] <roycroft> i doubt i'll ever need to cut a thread >56tpi
[18:06:19] <t12_> Jymm: yes
[18:06:20] <roycroft> is the totally enclosed gear box really worth the extra money?
[18:06:22] t12_ is now known as t12
[18:06:25] <Connor> amp on the motor is diff too.
[18:06:28] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: it will burst if the pressure exceeds the strength of the vessel
[18:06:30] <Connor> one is 8 amp, the other is 12
[18:06:45] <t12> is less of can in that case
[18:06:47] <t12> as will
[18:06:54] <t12> if theres net accumulation of energy
[18:06:59] <Connor> OH. and one includes the stand.. the other doen;t
[18:07:10] <roycroft> they both include the stand, i thought
[18:07:33] <roycroft> yeah, they do
[18:07:40] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: t12: Is there a limit to the pressure that can occure?
[18:07:42] <Connor> okay.. title miss-leading.
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[18:07:55] <t12> sure theres always a limit
[18:08:01] <t12> depends on the construction of the system
[18:08:03] <roycroft> the extra power of the one with the enclosed gear box is good
[18:08:11] <Jymmm> t12: I mean using water
[18:08:15] <roycroft> unless the gear train is less efficient than the other one
[18:08:33] <t12> some power plants run steam at 1500psi +
[18:08:35] <roycroft> in which cast i'm paying for more electricity with no more power
[18:08:41] <Jymmm> t12: like water can't boil more than 212F as example
[18:08:46] <t12> i think at some point things likely become chemically difficult
[18:08:59] <t12> the boiling point varies with pressure
[18:09:11] <Jymmm> t12: Yeah, that I'm aware of =)
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[18:09:16] <Jymmm> atmospehre, etc
[18:09:53] <roycroft> the claim is that the totally enclosed gear box is quieter and runs more smoothly than the other
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[18:10:54] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: what are you actually trying to work out? You can look up all the engineering calculations
[18:10:59] <roycroft> if it's significantly quieter that would be nice
[18:11:12] <Connor> Are you planning on CNCing it ?
[18:11:28] <Connor> If so, go with the one with the least stuff on it..
[18:11:31] <roycroft> but since there's relatively little mass on those machines (they weight ~1100lbs including stand), running more smoothly would be a great benefit
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[18:12:25] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Basically a CLOSED system that can be tossed in a camp fire to generate 250W of electricity.
[18:12:39] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ might be of interest
[18:12:44] <Jymmm> maybe 500W depending on size weight
[18:12:57] <t12> to make it closed you need condensing capacity equal to your steam generation capacity
[18:13:02] <jdh> 1/3HP out of a campfire?
[18:13:04] <CaptHindsight> closed boiler, steam generator
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[18:13:39] <Jymmm> t12: Yeah, just not sure how much, but I'm more looking at the safety aspects
[18:14:00] <t12> saftey for that case would be
[18:14:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pipes-pressure-rating-t_40.html
[18:14:02] <t12> have a blowoff
[18:14:06] <t12> that doesnt point at people
[18:14:15] <t12> usually redundant blowoffs
[18:14:18] <Jymmm> t12: famous last words =)
[18:14:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steam-condensate-properties-t_28.html
[18:14:44] <t12> if you're near a river
[18:14:46] <Jymmm> Here's the catch... must be backpackable
[18:14:53] <t12> on a side note
[18:15:01] <Jymmm> t12: all self contained once filled.
[18:15:05] <t12> i've heard that the marines has a standing contract
[18:15:16] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: how long does it need to run at 500W?
[18:15:19] <t12> for a 1kw backpackable power generator
[18:15:19] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: thanks for the links
[18:15:26] <t12> dry weight
[18:15:39] <t12> with an order size of something like infinity
[18:15:48] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: could be a few hours for over night.
[18:15:54] <Jymmm> s/for/to/
[18:16:02] <t12> i've never been able to locate the RFP thogh
[18:16:24] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: The higher end wattage is for powering two way radios intermittantly, the rest is to charge batteries overnight
[18:16:27] <CaptHindsight> mini thorium reactor
[18:16:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: packable? lol
[18:16:48] <t12> https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=055b5b6664f0f412623e64638c11d012
[18:16:51] <t12> there it is
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[18:17:16] <t12> https://www.qinetiq-na.com/press-releases/qinetiq-north-americas-q-gen-2-0-selected-by-u-s-marine-corps-for-one-man-portable-generator-program/
[18:17:21] <t12> i guess someone finally pulled it off
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[18:18:19] <CaptHindsight> whats the output in heat for a 180lb man?
[18:18:31] <CaptHindsight> while walking
[18:18:35] <Jymmm> 10WH iirc
[18:18:36] <t12> pretty low
[18:18:50] <t12> bicycling up hill as hard as you can is in the like 200-300W peak range
[18:18:52] <t12> aroudn there
[18:19:00] <t12> depending on weight naturally
[18:19:24] <Loetmichel> *gnah, 100s of screwdriver inserts here... and not ONE in PZ2 for spax screws... :-(
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[18:19:57] <CaptHindsight> https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=1d7a7472d56d03ced394b9115a95e8ac&tab=core&_cview=1
[18:20:15] <t12> hah
[18:20:33] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I just don't know how much condenser I'll need (as a ratio of heat source)
[18:20:57] <t12> condenser has its own special problems
[18:20:59] <CaptHindsight> 1:1
[18:21:00] <t12> like airflow, water pump
[18:21:34] <CaptHindsight> fire pit and the edge of lake or stream
[18:21:39] <t12> https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=5171c271eb46cb4ffbfbd9b99c841885&tab=core&_cview=1
[18:21:40] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I was thinking more like 5:1 being closed and unregulated heat
[18:21:42] <t12> government cheese
[18:21:47] <t12> manufacturer needed
[18:22:01] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: See, water source may not be availabele is the thing.
[18:22:16] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: only water might be what you are carrying.
[18:22:41] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yeah, the body of water just makes it much easier
[18:22:48] <Jymmm> Oh sure =)
[18:22:54] <t12> cooling capacity will be hard then
[18:23:00] <archivist> Jymmm, stop the silly dreams, you cannot make a steam generator of that power that you can carry
[18:23:18] <Jymmm> archivist: If you say so.
[18:23:41] <t12> radiothermal generator
[18:23:41] <t12> done
[18:24:11] <Loetmichel> still need cooling and much of that
[18:24:21] <Jymmm> Here's a 100W hand crank using a wiper motor... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgRT6WAStaE
[18:24:59] <Loetmichel> an radiothermal generator like the russians use in the lighthouses has about 4kw electric, weights half a ton and dissipates more than 50kW of heat
[18:25:09] <archivist> internal combustion is about the only sensible way
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[18:25:53] <t12> quantum vacuum zero-point generator
[18:25:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.engineering.com/DesignerEdge/DesignerEdgeArticles/ArticleID/7071/Nissans-40kg-400HP-Engine.aspx
[18:26:07] <Jymmm> If he can hand crank 100W, I'm sure stem can do better.
[18:26:14] <Jymmm> steam*
[18:26:26] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_program#Power
[18:26:36] <archivist> you cannot carry the water needed
[18:26:47] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: you cant hand crank 100W a very long time
[18:26:53] <Loetmichel> not even a trained athletic
[18:27:07] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Yes, I know, I just said that steam could do better =)
[18:27:09] <archivist> the best manage 150w
[18:27:40] <t12> i've been diving down this whole chinese benchtop mill rabbithole
[18:27:50] <t12> of the same conversations repeated on forums since about 2002
[18:28:00] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i would ditch steam
[18:28:12] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHW-RTG
[18:28:22] <archivist> Jymmm, you cannot reliably chuck a boiler in a fire either
[18:28:24] <CaptHindsight> 37.7 kg including about 4.5 kg of Pu-23
[18:28:24] <Loetmichel> use a small shaft power turbine from jetcat for example
[18:28:28] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Altenatives other than tcoolers ?
[18:28:34] <Loetmichel> not very fuel efficeint but very lgihweight
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[18:28:42] <CaptHindsight> 2400 Watts of thermal power
[18:29:39] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: and now add the neglected shielding to carry it as a human and it will be unmoveable
[18:30:03] <CaptHindsight> shielding?
[18:30:22] <t12> radiation
[18:30:52] <CaptHindsight> that weight was with the shielding
[18:30:54] <Loetmichel> radiation shielding
[18:30:57] <t12> though i guess pu-238 is alpha only?
[18:31:26] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: tha generators aremant to work in an unmanned probe
[18:31:43] <Loetmichel> on earth these desings would NEVER be approved for human use
[18:31:56] <Loetmichel> becauseofthehigh level radiation coming out of them
[18:32:00] <CaptHindsight> details details :)
[18:32:15] <Jymmm> Not closed, but basic idea to start with... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQUQ1oLymSc
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[18:33:17] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: that seems familliar...
[18:33:24] <CaptHindsight> what if pack animals are also used? They can carry their own weight plus more and be used as fuel
[18:33:35] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12274
[18:33:39] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: the animals as fuel?! lol
[18:34:23] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Yeah, kinda, but no 10,000 gallons of water available =)
[18:34:35] <Jymmm> brb
[18:34:48] <CaptHindsight> Fat contains 9 calories per gram
[18:35:10] <Loetmichel> i would still use a model turbie
[18:35:12] <jdh> lipo-fuel
[18:35:13] <Loetmichel> tubine
[18:35:23] <Loetmichel> and carry some fuelwith me
[18:35:33] <SpeedEvil> model turbines _suck_ for fue economy
[18:35:42] <archivist> efficiency too low
[18:35:50] <SpeedEvil> Even a truly terrible ic engine is better
[18:35:53] <archivist> small diesel
[18:36:07] <Loetmichel> the guzze about 700gr of jet-a1 a minute, but hte have 5kw shaft power
[18:36:10] <SpeedEvil> Decent tiny (1hp) 2-strokes beat them by a _long_ way
[18:36:28] <Loetmichel> and are VERY leightweight
[18:36:46] <jdh> get a $80 HF 2stroke gen and carry some gas
[18:36:47] <archivist> .35 lb of fuels per bhp per hour for a good diesel
[18:36:53] <Loetmichel> efficiency is truly terrible, thats right
[18:37:31] <archivist> steam efficiency sucks too
[18:37:36] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: decent 5kw shaft power2 strokes weight about 10kg
[18:37:44] <Loetmichel> thats a bit much for one person
[18:38:03] <Loetmichel> archivist: small scale<: yes, large scale: no
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[18:39:26] <archivist> steam rail locos were about 5%
[18:39:38] <rythmnbls> SpeedEvil, my very inefficient turbine :) http://youtu.be/C6BHWNTmCd0
[18:39:50] <archivist> old type large power station got to 35%
[18:40:43] <Jymmm> back
[18:42:16] <Jymmm> Well, having a camp fire generates a lot of power, steam was just a first thought of harvesting it. T-coolers dont seem to be reliable.
[18:42:37] <Jymmm> s/power/energy/
[18:43:42] <CaptHindsight> yeah, how to best convert the stored form of energy into electrical energy
[18:44:33] <CaptHindsight> and they probably aren't driving Teslas
[18:44:37] <jdh> wonder if anyone has ever considered methods of power generation before
[18:45:00] <SpeedEvil> jdh: millions
[18:45:09] <Jymmm> If I got a wiper motor like in that video, I was just trying to figure a way to turn it via the camp fire.
[18:45:43] <archivist> hot air engine
[18:45:52] <archivist> stirling cycle
[18:46:25] <CaptHindsight> weren't fuel cells going to solve this problem?
[18:46:27] <roycroft> stationary bicycle hooked up to the generator, and feed the rider smores
[18:46:30] <archivist> but it will have to be a high pressure one to be anything like efficient and powerful
[18:46:32] <CaptHindsight> just add hydrogen
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[18:49:20] <CaptHindsight> 2,570 watt-hours per kilogram lithium ion battery = 9,252,000 joules per Kg
[18:49:47] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
[18:50:03] <Jymmm> I don't know, just seems simplistic in essense. I got a pit of energy, and jsut wna tto convert it *shrug* (damn physics ;)
[18:50:39] -!- i_tarzan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[18:52:31] <Jymmm> Hell, if it generated 25W that would be a good start
[18:52:48] -!- i_tarzan [i_tarzan!~i_tarzan@] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:53:00] <CaptHindsight> Antimatter 1.80 10^11
[18:53:07] <CaptHindsight> MJ/Kg
[18:53:16] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Do I get that from ebay or amazon?
[18:54:01] <CaptHindsight> looks like Amamzon :)
[18:54:19] <Jymmm> Better be with free shipping!
[18:54:40] <Jymmm> HazMat fees are a bitch!
[18:56:10] <CaptHindsight> Hydrogen, at 690 bar and 15°C has 141.86 (MJ/kg)
[18:57:03] <CaptHindsight> but 10k psi probably requires to heavy a bottle to carry
[18:58:49] <PCW> Nah, just a carbon fiber wrapped SS balloon
[18:59:04] <PCW> (as long as I'm not near)
[18:59:38] <CaptHindsight> what were the conversion efficiency numbers for the fuel cells we heard about 5-10 years ago now?
[18:59:48] <Jymmm> Would this work? [ turbine ]===={dual lines}====[ coil of copper tubing in fire with check valve on one side]
[19:00:16] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell#Theoretical_maximum_efficiency
[19:01:01] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[19:02:17] <Jymmm> Or is it the differencial that makes a closed system work?
[19:02:31] <Jymmm> temperature differenical
[19:02:34] <PCW> Use a bunch of TCs like the Russian kerosine radios
[19:02:52] <Jymmm> PCW: They don't seem to be reliable though.
[19:03:03] -!- acdha has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[19:03:16] <jdh> russians used them in the arctic for years with strontium
[19:03:20] <PCW> they are extreemly reliable
[19:03:42] <Jymmm> http://www.fireboxstove.com/cup-charger
[19:04:09] <PCW> semiconductor TCs are too fragile to be around a fire
[19:04:15] <Jymmm> PCW: Is that why I see electric ice chest on CL all the time =)
[19:04:37] <PCW> too easy to overheat
[19:04:44] <Jymmm> PCW: Oh, then what ones you are speaking of?
[19:05:07] <PCW> Old fashioned thermopiles
[19:05:29] <PCW> stand up to direct fire contact
[19:05:30] <Jymmm> PCW: liek in water heaters and furnaces?
[19:05:49] <PCW> yes but many more
[19:06:27] <Jymmm> Yeah, since they only put out mV's
[19:06:43] <PCW> http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/POWER/thermoelectric/thermoelectric.htm#rl
[19:07:19] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell#Comparison_of_fuel_cell_types
[19:08:03] <Jymmm> PCW: Interesting. I wonder what plates instead of wires could do?
[19:08:53] <PCW> the plates are for cooling the cold junctions
[19:09:21] <Jymmm> PCW: No I mena using sheet materials instead of wire
[19:10:16] <Jymmm> PCW: I doubt I'll ever find the books they are referening, unless archivist has them =)
[19:10:29] <PCW> The older ones used all wire
[19:11:06] <Jymmm> PCW: I get that, but I mean use strip material instead to take advantage of surface area
[19:11:14] zq is now known as antitom
[19:11:28] <Jymmm> if I'm going to be stacking a bunch together
[19:11:31] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEMFC
[19:11:47] * Jymmm lol @ CaptHindsight
[19:12:20] <CaptHindsight> what's your R&D budget?
[19:12:32] <jdh> a buck fifty
[19:12:33] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: how much is in your pocket?
[19:13:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.devilwatt.com/
[19:14:16] * varesa wonders about the possibility of using an FPGA to create a PCI-connected hardware stepgen as a project
[19:15:19] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: http://www.shop.thermoamp.com/CAMP-AMP-Thermoelectric-Generators_c2.htm
[19:16:04] <Jymmm> eating a car https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcbpkAt-myM
[19:16:21] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Yeah, much like the "Cup Charger"
[19:16:42] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: can they carry 10 of these? http://tecteg.com/pdf_files/TEG12VDC-24LIQUID50W%20Specification%20Sheet.pdf
[19:17:00] <zeeshan|2> guys
[19:17:05] <zeeshan|2> im trying to adjust backlash on this machine
[19:17:07] <zeeshan|2> before the guy picks it uip
[19:17:09] <zeeshan|2> its welrd.
[19:17:16] <zeeshan|2> its got a lock collar on it. not sure how it works
[19:17:20] <zeeshan|2> trying to do it without removing the table
[19:17:27] <CaptHindsight> http://thermonamic.en.alibaba.com/product/702578190-222733472/500_watts_Liquid_to_Liquid_Type_Thermoelectric_Power_Generator_for_industrial_waste_heat.html
[19:17:36] <CaptHindsight> 500 watts
[19:21:22] <CaptHindsight> varesa: you could look at any of the Mesa FPGA cards as an example
[19:22:56] <zeeshan|2> help meeee
[19:22:56] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[19:24:04] <varesa> CaptHindsight: something like 5i25 actually looks affordable :o
[19:24:21] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: have pics?
[19:24:39] <varesa> I tried looking for some stuff earlier and everything was way out of my budget
[19:25:44] <jdh> you usually need a daughtercard to go with it
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[19:26:07] <PCW> you can use any standard parallel port breakout
[19:27:27] <zeeshan|2> http://www.microkinetics.com/images/BPT%20ballscrew%20kit.jpg
[19:27:33] <zeeshan|2> what do you call that black thing
[19:27:38] <zeeshan|2> i totally forgot
[19:27:46] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: i can take pics, but its kind of hard to see.
[19:28:04] <PCW> ball nut?
[19:29:08] <CaptHindsight> yoke
[19:29:10] <zeeshan|2> yoke thats it
[19:29:32] <PCW> the yokes on you
[19:29:52] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[19:30:07] <zeeshan|2> you and your one liners :P
[19:30:43] <zeeshan|2> lemme try to take pics.
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[19:36:23] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/1BiGrlx.jpg looking from right side
[19:36:24] <zeeshan|2> and
[19:36:30] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/VTrsyc9.jpg
[19:36:32] <zeeshan|2> looking from left side
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[19:36:56] <zeeshan|2> left side i can for sure see some sort of lock collar
[19:37:12] <zeeshan|2> where you use a spanner wrench to do something =P
[19:37:21] <zeeshan|2> on the right side it looks like theres some sort of socket head cap screw or something
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[19:49:51] <varesa> is the HDL for the mesa cards available somewhere or is it closed source?
[19:52:29] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[19:54:17] <mozmck> I think it's on their website - SUPPORT SOFTWARE link beside each products.
[19:54:21] <cradek> it is all available
[19:59:01] <Connor> Hey guys.. Question about industrial switches...when they say.. 16A - 380v... is that Max? So can that be 16A @ 120v ?
[20:00:39] <Jymmm> Connor: depends if it's resistive or inductive load
[20:00:44] <Jymmm> AC or DC
[20:00:56] <Connor> AC, Motor
[20:01:22] <Jymmm> does the switch hve a part number?
[20:01:40] <Connor> I'm looking on Ebay...
[20:02:15] <varesa> mozmck: cradek: yeah found it. either my or their internet was having a slow day, took 35 minutes to download that 10MB .zip
[20:02:29] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/sch/22newcentury/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
[20:03:05] <Connor> thats the guy I'm looking at.. has all sorts of rotary change over switches rated from 16A, 20a and 25a for 380v 500v 600v etc..
[20:03:09] <Connor> nothing with 120v
[20:04:02] <jdh> 120v is pretty wimpy for industrial use.
[20:04:19] <jdh> especially for that much current.
[20:04:38] <Jymmm> Connor: You can use 120V with a 600V switch, That's just rcing value. it's amperage fo rthe type of load that vecomes the issue.
[20:04:45] <Jymmm> arcing*
[20:05:06] <Connor> Right.. so.. do you have to de-rate the switch then ?
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[20:06:06] <Jymmm> Connor: I have seen switches with multiple ratings dependon type of load and if AC or DC
[20:06:52] <Connor> Yes.. DC is always less than AC on current.. I know that..
[20:07:01] <Connor> What a pain in the A$$ this is.
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[20:09:04] <Jymmm> Connor: you want a rotary switch?
[20:09:19] <Connor> Yes.
[20:09:43] <Jymmm> how many poles?
[20:09:59] <Connor> can be 1 or 2
[20:10:13] <Jymmm> and positioons?
[20:10:14] <Connor> If 2, I can switch the Hot and Neutral..
[20:10:16] <Connor> 2
[20:10:31] <Connor> If 1, I'll just switch the Hot
[20:10:35] <Jymmm> Huh? That's just a DPDT switch, not rotary
[20:10:57] <Jymmm> rotary is liek 5 or 12 positions.
[20:10:58] <Connor> Yes.. I could use a DPDT switch.. but I want a 2 position rotary
[20:11:10] <Jymmm> you want a A/B switch?
[20:11:19] <Connor> Yea.
[20:11:30] <jdh> A/O/B
[20:11:41] <Connor> jdh: That's for the coolant.. I have one for that.
[20:11:45] <Connor> errr. found one.
[20:11:51] <Connor> it's low amperage..
[20:12:20] <jdh> oh, that's much easier.
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[20:13:59] <Connor> Maybe something like that ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/321097414076
[20:14:44] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-240V-3A-2NO-DPDT-Black-Top-Selector-Locking-Rotary-Switch-/310788237497?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item485c6c28b9
[20:15:41] <Jymmm> Connor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotary-Three-3-Position-Selector-Switch-Power-Ignition-/170655659661?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bbdeb68d
[20:18:22] <Jymmm> Connor: Even gives a choice of momentary or not
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[20:19:52] <Connor> That would work for the coolant.. but.. it's only 10amps.. not enough for the spindle.
[20:20:06] <Connor> need 16a
[20:20:40] <Jymmm> Connor: it's cheap enough, buy to and stack the contacts and parallel the load
[20:20:47] <Jymmm> two*
[20:21:51] <Jymmm> ButI'd ask them if that possible with these switches as there no model#
[20:22:05] <jdh> contactor with a rotary for the coil
[20:22:52] <Jymmm> that work too, just $$$ for the contactor unless you have access to a HVAC parts house =)
[20:28:44] <jdh> connor: not rotary, but you won't it it by accident: 251646815672
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[20:35:08] <PetefromTn_> Hey folks..
[20:35:17] <PetefromTn_> Whatsgoingon?
[20:35:30] <PetefromTn_> Connor Ya there man?
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[20:47:35] <MrHindsight> hmm Igus energy chain is a standout feature on small cnc routers!?
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[20:54:16] <Jymmm> MrHindsight: ?
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[21:19:36] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:29:21] <Connor> PetefromTn_: what's up?
[21:29:36] <PetefromTn_> Hey man we are back home now..
[21:29:44] <PetefromTn_> We just got the new encoder hooked up
[21:29:50] <Connor> Nice.
[21:29:52] <PetefromTn_> went into HAL and it is WORKING!!!
[21:29:58] <Connor> WooT!
[21:29:59] <PetefromTn_> WWOOOOOHHHHOOOOOO
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[21:30:00] <Connor> Index too?
[21:30:08] <PetefromTn_> well not sure how to proceed here.
[21:30:30] <PetefromTn_> We want to try to index but we need that pin jumper and the firmware stuff to proceed no?
[21:30:56] <PetefromTn_> SSI was able to get the spindle speed configured to the encoder input so that all works
[21:31:13] <Connor> Okay, so.. You need to align the 180 out so that the index triggers about half way on the 180 out
[21:31:24] <PetefromTn_> if I dial in 500RPM we get encoder feedback of a number that represents it
[21:31:36] <PetefromTn_> how?
[21:32:05] <PetefromTn_> apparently there is an spindle index offset count right??
[21:32:46] <Connor> Manually turn the spindle till the index is tripped.. then, loosen the belts and rotate it around so 180 out prox sensor is in the middle of the ramp.. then tighten the belts
[21:33:32] <PetefromTn_> how do we monitor the index trip and why does it need to happen in the middle of the ramp and not at the start or end?
[21:33:54] <Connor> You should be able to see it trip in HAL.
[21:34:10] <PetefromTn_> what might the name of the signal be?
[21:34:13] <PetefromTn_> any idea?
[21:34:42] <Connor> No.. because I don't have a 7i77 to look at the tree.
[21:34:44] <Tom_itx> does it rotate both ways or just one?
[21:34:52] <Connor> Both ways
[21:34:55] <PetefromTn_> does what rotate both ways?
[21:35:00] <Connor> the spindle.
[21:35:07] <PetefromTn_> yeah M3 M4
[21:35:12] <Tom_itx> the index is off probably so you can determine the direction it is rotating
[21:35:18] <PetefromTn_> everything is working and the commands are correct.
[21:36:00] <PetefromTn_> SSI is working on threading his ballnut mount for the Z in the lathe right now and we wanted to try to get as much configured as possible here while he is still here.
[21:36:01] <Tom_itx> no the tool changer
[21:36:12] <Tom_itx> i guess you're not working on that yet though...
[21:36:18] <PetefromTn_> we are not working on that right now.
[21:36:18] <Tom_itx> didn't scroll back far enough
[21:36:39] <PetefromTn_> we just got spindle feedback working and now we are looking to orient and then try rigid tap in air.
[21:36:58] <Tom_itx> the index for the spindle could be used for tool change orientation too
[21:36:59] <Connor> okay, so, do you have a jumper ?
[21:37:08] <PetefromTn_> This is very exciting that the last bits of this puzzle are coming together finally LOL.
[21:37:11] <PetefromTn_> NOPE
[21:37:16] <PetefromTn_> you had it I thought
[21:37:28] * Tom_itx hands PetefromTn_ one
[21:37:32] <Connor> I do.. but, I thought you might be able to find one from old scrap computer parts.
[21:37:36] <Connor> or old hard drive.
[21:38:08] <Connor> I should have left it Sunday night.
[21:38:08] <PetefromTn_> eh I dunno I am not like you computer junkies with hundreds of PC's lying around the house LOL
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[21:39:07] <Connor> You had a junk dell or HP computer.. I guess you threw it out..
[21:39:18] <PetefromTn_> I am so pleased that my custom machined mount and encoder setup worked right the first time.
[21:39:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah those are gone I think.
[21:39:36] <PetefromTn_> I purged a bunch of junk awhile back.
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[21:39:50] <PetefromTn_> do we need that to proceed?
[21:39:54] <Connor> Yes.
[21:39:59] <PetefromTn_> ah shite
[21:40:09] <Connor> You have a Radio Shake in Maryville ?
[21:40:25] <PetefromTn_> there is a shitty one in the foothills mall
[21:41:12] <PetefromTn_> I can't wait to be able to rigid tap with this baby... that's gonna be so damn sweet LOL
[21:41:33] <PetefromTn_> I think SSI is probably going to buy that Cincinatti VMC we looked at.
[21:41:40] <PetefromTn_> maybe anyways.
[21:41:40] <Connor> Cool
[21:41:56] <PetefromTn_> the damn thing actually worked pretty good for the most part.
[21:42:10] <PetefromTn_> its ugly but it needs a good cleaning.
[21:42:11] <Connor> Didn't it have a broken fork on the tool changer ?
[21:42:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah two of them. But it is no big deal you can buy replacement fork components and even if he had to machine another carousel plate on the mill it is doable.
[21:43:09] <PetefromTn_> or just live without two pockets and only have 19 tool holder LOL
[21:44:19] <PetefromTn_> I was surprised at how similar that sabre 500 was to my arrow 500 really. Almost the same machine really.
[21:45:42] <Connor> I'm just looked down and noticed another jumper sitting on my keyboard in the pencil grove
[21:46:57] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: what did you notice the differences to be between the two machines?
[21:47:56] <PetefromTn_> Is there a way to scope the index pulse in halscope?
[21:48:04] <Connor> Should be.
[21:48:58] <PetefromTn_> we are trying to determine what the index pulse is to determine where it is on the revolution.
[21:49:16] <PetefromTn_> of course without the firmware and the jumper there will actually be TWO index pulses.
[21:49:29] <Connor> correct
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[21:50:01] <PetefromTn_> can you mail us the firmware setup SSI seems fairly competent with this stuff... maybe he can do the install?
[21:50:02] <Connor> Go into Hal Configuration.
[21:50:16] <Connor> and look at the pins..
[21:50:32] <Connor> and find the spindle encoder under the 7i77
[21:50:36] <Connor> and see what it has..
[21:51:03] <PetefromTn_> we did but I don't recall seeing an index
[21:52:46] <PCW> index is typically too short to see with halmeter or halscope
[21:53:18] <Connor> Bit file sent. you'll have to check with PCW to see what else you need to do.. I think you need to update something in your hal file to activate the internal connector
[21:53:44] <Connor> PCW Suggestions on how they can get the index midpoint on the 180 sensor then ?
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[21:54:44] <Connor> or, is that even that critical ?
[21:54:48] <PCW> you first unhook encoder index enable from whatever its connected to on the hal file
[21:54:59] <PCW> in the hal file
[21:56:19] <PCW> then you set it true with setp, slowly turn the spindle and watch for it to go false (it will go false on index)
[21:56:34] <Connor> loadrt hm2_pci config=" num_encoders=6 num_pwmgens=0 num_3pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=0 sserial_port_0=000xxxxx sb sserial_port_0=30xxxxxx"
[21:57:03] <Connor> I think they need to mod the hm2_pci line to that.. to turn on 2nd internal connector
[21:57:12] <PCW> nope
[21:57:27] <Connor> no?
[21:58:00] <PCW> and there should be only one sserial_port_0=something token
[21:58:14] <Connor> loadrt hm2_pci config=" num_encoders=6 num_pwmgens=0 num_3pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=0 sserial_port_0=300xxxxx"
[21:58:51] <Connor> mode 3
[21:59:34] <PCW> ok (but nothing need change there)
[22:00:04] <Connor> He hays sserial_port_0=000xxxxx
[22:00:28] <Connor> which needs to change to sserial_port_0=300xxxxx per my notes last time we talked.
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[22:01:06] <Connor> or sserial_port_0=30xxxxxx
[22:01:10] <PCW> only if you want a MPG or something (unrelated to spindle)
[22:01:11] <Connor> what's the x vs 0 mean?
[22:01:45] <Connor> Okay.. N/m.. that was what THAT was about..
[22:01:53] <Connor> and that should already be done.
[22:01:56] <PCW> x means disabled, numbers are modes
[22:02:38] <Connor> I'll be playing with my 5i25 and 7i76 soon enough.. I'll learn more about it. :)
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[22:03:14] <PCW> 7I76 has similar modes on field I/O
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[22:05:28] <PetefromTn_> PCW:this is ssi at pete's
[22:05:56] <PetefromTn_> when you say to watch for the index to go false, which pin do you mean?
[22:06:09] <PetefromTn_> I dont seem to have direct access to an index pin
[22:07:00] <PetefromTn_> we tried scoping the I45 mux pin but it was madness
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[22:11:26] <Jymmm> PCW: Um... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdzRktn7j3A
[22:13:19] <PetefromTn_> PCW: ok i unhooked spindle index enable from motion.spindle-index-enable and set it hard to false
[22:14:56] <PetefromTn_> oh you said true
[22:14:58] <PetefromTn_> sec
[22:18:05] <PetefromTn_> PCW: once it goes false, itll stay false until you set it back to true, yes?
[22:18:12] <PCW> yes
[22:18:13] <PetefromTn_> that seems to be the behavior currently
[22:18:15] <PetefromTn_> ok
[22:18:24] <PetefromTn_> so what next?
[22:19:00] <PCW> it should not go false immediately only when you cross the index position
[22:19:10] <PetefromTn_> thats what its doing
[22:19:32] <PetefromTn_> i rotate, and at about 4 oclock it goes out
[22:19:42] <PetefromTn_> then I set back to true and continue rotating
[22:19:50] <PetefromTn_> and at 10 oclock it goes out again
[22:19:56] <PetefromTn_> so that seems correct
[22:20:00] <PetefromTn_> cause 2:1 drive
[22:20:04] <Connor> right.
[22:20:09] <PCW> (and index position should be centered in the spindle mask)
[22:20:19] <Connor> Yup.
[22:20:24] <PetefromTn_> ok i (ssi) dont know what the spindle mask is
[22:20:30] <PetefromTn_> do we have a pin for that?
[22:20:44] <Connor> Yes. it's hooked up to one of the field I/O's
[22:20:47] <PCW> I think it was a prox
[22:21:16] <PetefromTn_> ok lemme look at the mapping
[22:21:22] <PCW> so you should be able to watch it with a hal watch LED
[22:21:25] <PetefromTn_> ya
[22:21:47] <Connor> you can pyscially look at the prox sensor and ramp on the spindle.. and find the center.
[22:21:56] <Connor> physically
[22:22:05] <PetefromTn_> got it in halscope
[22:22:16] <PetefromTn_> its about 90 out of phase with index, which is good
[22:22:30] <Connor> That's exactly what you need.
[22:22:42] <PetefromTn_> so i just need to wire up an and to mask it?
[22:22:42] <Connor> okay.. so.. all you need is the firmware loaded.. and a jumper! :)
[22:22:52] <PetefromTn_> or can i use the index-mask features
[22:22:57] <PetefromTn_> oh we need a firmware
[22:22:58] <PetefromTn_> ok
[22:22:59] <PCW> and some hal wiring
[22:23:05] <PetefromTn_> ok
[22:23:10] <PetefromTn_> well lemme start with the firmware
[22:23:20] <PetefromTn_> i need to figure out how to get network on it
[22:23:32] <Connor> No. You need that firmware.. jumper pins 1 and 2 on P2 on 5i25
[22:23:38] <Connor> which are GPIO 17 and 18
[22:23:42] <PetefromTn_> ok
[22:23:48] <Connor> and from there.. PCW will have to tell you what to do.. because I don't know..
[22:24:24] <PCW> after that its all hal (and traceable by looking at hal pins))
[22:24:37] <PetefromTn_> pcw: what exactly is this jumper for?
[22:24:48] <Connor> I emailed the BIT file to Pete's email
[22:27:14] <PCW> we are going to wire
[22:27:16] <PCW> proximity switch signal --> GPIO18 in HAL
[22:27:17] <PCW> then GPIO18 --> INDEXMASK (on GPIO17) with jumper
[22:27:31] <PetefromTn_> ah I see
[22:27:42] <PetefromTn_> can it not be wired completely in hal?
[22:27:48] <PetefromTn_> in/out issues I guess?
[22:28:13] <PCW> no, theres no internal index mask signal in hal
[22:28:30] <PetefromTn_> I see
[22:29:40] <PetefromTn_> Connor: is mesaflash already on here?
[22:30:00] <PCW> its doable in hal but really awkward do to the bidirectional nature of the index enable signal
[22:30:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah I figued as much
[22:30:39] <PCW> would need a comp
[22:31:12] <Connor> No. It's not.
[22:32:10] <PetefromTn_> yeah, it is Z)
[22:32:14] <PetefromTn_> I found it :)
[22:32:23] <Connor> Is it?
[22:32:25] <Connor> okay.
[22:32:34] <Connor> Don't recall putting it on there.
[22:32:55] <PCW> you might want to download the latest
[22:33:05] <PetefromTn_> ok
[22:34:32] <PCW> https://github.com/micges/mesaflash/archive/master.zip
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[22:35:24] <PetefromTn_> I pulled direct from git master; building now
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[22:38:30] <PCW> should take only a few seconds to build
[22:39:06] <PetefromTn_> yes
[22:39:18] <PetefromTn_> its built and new bitfile is blown on
[22:39:24] <PetefromTn_> power cycling
[22:39:30] <PetefromTn_> this is a slow process over here :)
[22:39:41] <Connor> Yea.. you have to down the computer..
[22:39:48] <Connor> and the machine
[22:39:53] <Connor> with the master disconnect
[22:39:59] <PetefromTn_> and type on tje worlds tiniest keyboad
[22:40:06] <Connor> still need to jumper those pins..
[22:41:03] <PetefromTn_> yeah getting into it now
[22:41:17] <Connor> what are you going to use to jumper them ?
[22:41:31] <PetefromTn_> whatever i can find
[22:41:49] <PetefromTn_> isnt there an unused jumper on either the '25 or the '77?
[22:42:17] <Connor> I dunno.. PCW ?
[22:42:25] <PetefromTn_> ill know in a few
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[22:43:45] * Tom_itx gives PetefromTn_ some tin foil
[22:43:51] <PetefromTn_> seems legit
[22:44:13] <PetefromTn_> ill just bend the pins together... pete'll never know the difference ;)
[22:44:28] <Tom_itx> he'll figure it was made that way
[22:44:28] <PetefromTn_> ...he's right behind me, isnt he
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[22:49:26] <PetefromTn_> you all can kiss my ass...
[22:53:38] * Jymmm grabs pitchfork. PetefromTn_ BARE IT!
[22:54:04] <PetefromTn_> Connor: texting you a pic to confirm
[22:54:12] <Connor> ok
[22:55:36] <Connor> No
[22:55:39] <Connor> the other way.
[22:55:54] <Connor> I think they're side by side.. not top to bottom.
[22:56:05] <Connor> pcw ?
[22:56:27] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/YvrUIph
[22:57:40] <Connor> I'm not sure which way is.. I was thinking it was the other way.
[22:58:04] <Tom_itx> will the real PetefromTn_ please sit down!
[22:58:24] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/crRzyVk
[22:58:39] <Connor> brb
[22:58:42] <PetefromTn_> now that you mention it i think youre right
[23:01:16] <Connor> that looks correct. Where did you find the jumper ?
[23:01:17] <PCW> should be vertical on the left side
[23:01:21] <Jymmm> PCW: 50W https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybgOZRQ7zzU pocket sized!
[23:01:30] <PetefromTn_> ok
[23:01:37] <Connor> Vertical ?
[23:02:11] <PetefromTn_> PCW: like the first picture we posted?
[23:02:15] <Tom_itx> they appear vertical in the picture
[23:02:54] <PCW> yeah first picture
[23:03:11] <Tom_itx> what's that jumper for?
[23:03:17] <Tom_itx> special mode?
[23:03:22] <Connor> okay... I thought it went 1,2,3,4 on the bottom...then up and over..
[23:03:35] <Tom_itx> even odd rows
[23:03:37] <Connor> Tom_itx: Special firmware to enable index mask
[23:04:17] <PetefromTn_> Connor: cable select jumper off a cdrom drive that was lying around ;)
[23:04:21] <Connor> So, prox sensor tied to GPIO 17, or GPI 18 ?
[23:04:25] <Connor> Nice!
[23:04:55] <PCW> Ive forgotten where index mask is
[23:05:08] <Connor> yea. me too.
[23:05:10] <Tom_itx> uh oh
[23:05:44] <PCW> mesaflash will report it
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[23:06:01] <Connor> I think they flashed it already
[23:06:17] <PCW> sudo mesaflash --device 5i25 --readhmid >pinout.txt
[23:06:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah ill verify the bitfile once we get it booted
[23:06:29] <Connor> ok
[23:06:38] <PetefromTn_> have to put everything back together
[23:07:28] <Connor> Good to know our soldering job worked! :)
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[23:07:41] <PetefromTn_> yep
[23:07:42] <Connor> I HATE soldering ribbon cable.
[23:07:47] <Tom_itx> one would hope so
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[23:07:55] <PetefromTn_> its not made to be soldered :P
[23:08:05] <PetefromTn_> not like that anyway
[23:08:11] <Connor> Yea.. I know..
[23:08:16] <PCW> really meant fo IDC only
[23:08:42] <Connor> He cut the connector.. I was going to make a breakout board..
[23:08:45] <PCW> crappy low melting point PVC insulation
[23:08:47] <PetefromTn_> it can be stripped and tinned and soldered to .100" holes reasonably well
[23:08:53] <PetefromTn_> but its not ideal
[23:09:11] <PetefromTn_> .050 holes i guess actually
[23:09:15] <PetefromTn_> whateb
[23:09:20] <Connor> Pete have the cabinet closed up yet? :)
[23:09:23] <Tom_itx> just get some ribbon to board connectors
[23:09:24] <Connor> Hurry up Pete!
[23:09:26] <PetefromTn_> hes workin on it
[23:09:42] <PetefromTn_> mucho tornillos
[23:09:55] <Connor> Tom_itx: Too late.. it's already soldered to the millspec connector and installed.
[23:09:57] <Tom_itx> then solder the connector to the breakout board
[23:10:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/THK-FBW-FBW2560R-Linear-Bearing-Guide-Slide-Rail-Pack-FBW-488mm-/191303034228 nice linear rails to go with those plywood machine frames
[23:10:41] <PetefromTn_> not bad
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[23:12:07] <Connor> After you play with Rigid tapping.. then it's time to get spindle orientation working..
[23:12:34] <Connor> Then, I'll have to come over and drop in the remap code for the tool changer.
[23:13:03] <Connor> switching to ipad
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[23:14:29] <PetefromTn_> ok
[23:14:32] <Connor_iPad> Hurry up Pete.
[23:14:37] <PetefromTn_> 18 is idxm
[23:15:08] <PCW> ok so gpio17 must be set to output mode
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[23:15:44] <PCW> (An I hope its the correct channels index mask)
[23:15:50] <Connor_iPad> And where does 180 tie to?
[23:16:02] <PetefromTn_> we are on channel 5
[23:16:08] <PetefromTn_> last encoder
[23:16:38] <Connor_iPad> Yea. That was what it was coded for. If memory serves
[23:17:34] <PCW> so you setp blahblahblah.gpio.017.is-output true
[23:17:54] <PetefromTn_> got that
[23:18:03] <PetefromTn_> whats driving 17{
[23:18:13] <PetefromTn_> is it already wired to something?
[23:18:24] <PetefromTn_> the index mask rihgt
[23:18:31] <PetefromTn_> so what is 18 then?
[23:18:40] <PetefromTn_> 18 is the one that says idxm in mesaflash
[23:18:43] <PCW> shouldnt be needs to connect to you 180 prox signal
[23:19:09] <PetefromTn_> oh right
[23:19:28] <Connor_iPad> Via Hal
[23:19:31] <PCW> so
[23:19:32] <PCW> net blubear prox_180 blahblahblah.gpio.017.out
[23:20:05] <PCW> (something like that)
[23:21:18] <Connor_iPad> Pcw for my clarification. 1-16 is on p3 17-32 on p2?
[23:22:05] <PCW> 0..16 on P3 17..33 on P2
[23:22:46] <PCW> parallel port pinout (17 signals) starting at 0
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[23:25:32] <PCW> you can check you jumper/hal wiring by seeing if gpio18 follows prox180
[23:25:34] <PetefromTn_> ok prox is wired to 17 out
[23:26:01] <PetefromTn_> should i wire index-enable back to motion. ?
[23:26:16] <PCW> not quite yet
[23:26:34] <PCW> leave it commented out to test
[23:30:33] <Connor_iPad> PetefromTn_: It working?
[23:31:52] <PetefromTn_> either chill out or bring me a keyboard
[23:33:09] <PetefromTn_> it didnt seem to work
[23:33:19] <PetefromTn_> still triggers the index every 180 degrees
[23:33:25] <PCW> not expected to yet
[23:33:33] <PetefromTn_> ok what should i be testing then
[23:33:55] <PetefromTn_> oh if 18 follows prox
[23:35:00] <PetefromTn_> yeah, 18 follows prox
[23:35:03] <PetefromTn_> whats next
[23:35:09] <PCW> you need to setp blahblahblah.encoder.05.index-mask true
[23:35:24] <PetefromTn_> in hal file, or while its running?
[23:35:34] <PCW> in hal file
[23:36:51] <PetefromTn_> hsld
[23:36:53] <PetefromTn_> done
[23:37:03] <PCW> blahblahblah.encoder.05.index-mask should really be called blahblahblah.encoder.05.index-mask-enable
[23:37:17] <PetefromTn_> should i test for masking now?
[23:37:23] <PCW> yes
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[23:39:02] <PetefromTn_> ok masking is working
[23:39:13] <PCW> well jolly good!
[23:39:18] <PetefromTn_> :)
[23:39:21] <Connor_iPad> WooT!!!!!
[23:39:27] <PetefromTn_> ok to hook it back to motion now?
[23:39:39] <PCW> Yep
[23:39:58] <PetefromTn_> whats the best next thing to test?
[23:39:59] <Connor_iPad> Will you have to change the scale now?
[23:40:26] <Connor_iPad> Encoder count doubles essentially.
[23:40:51] <PCW> scale should be encoder counts per spindle rotation
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[23:42:54] <PetefromTnll> how do we test the actual indexing of the spindle/
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[23:46:19] <Connor_iPad> Try a test with ridged tapping?
[23:46:46] <Connor_iPad> In the air of course m
[23:50:44] <PetefromTnll> HOLY SHIT IT WORKS!!!
[23:52:01] <Connor_iPad> Nice
[23:53:39] <skunkworks_> video!
[23:53:58] <PetefromTnll> well it does not really look like anything right now..
[23:54:08] <PetefromTnll> But it reversed and the head followed the spindle
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[23:56:39] <Connor_iPad> Spindle orintation time.
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[23:57:31] <PetefromTnll> looks like thats gonna require more hal work
[23:58:10] <Connor_iPad> Yup
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[23:59:35] <XXCoder> heys